of negligence and some jail time seems warranted but the juxtaposition of her prison while rittenhouse makes his promotional tour for right-wing media is quite -- look, the whole shooting incident to which you are referring was just so damn tragic. she made a mistake. of course, she is contrite about it. the question is was she reckless? that is the issue for the jury. i was watching this all unfold today and one of my sons came into my office and said she was apologetic, it was a god awful tragedy. he is dead but what is the issue? the issue is was she reckless? one more, think i have got to sneak this in. at what point can the responsible stop paying the price for the irresponsible and purposely unvaxed? zander, i said i am losing -- i am losing my sense of compassion for those who are refusing to get vaxed and then get themselves and the rest of society into trouble. so i feel the same way. i feel the same way. and no amount of brow beeting is going to change their minds. thank you so much for wo watching all week long. i am be back monday night.

please join me tomorrow morning and every saturday morning at 9:00 a.m. eastern for "smerconish" right here on cnn. don lemon starts right now. hey, don. >> you certainly had a week, my friend. is this your oldest son? i forget his name but who was a baby when i -- >> you -- yeah, i know, man. they have all grown. like, none -- none are babies, anymore. i wish they were. >> nice full head of hair. good-looking, young man. obviously, he looks like your wife. that is the one i am talking about. i forget his name. >> that is true. >> the crew is laughing over here. michael, have a good show tomorrow, have a great weekend and i won't wont be here next week so have a merry christmas to you and your family. >> merry christmas to you. >> thank you. this is "don lemon tonight" and i need everybody to pay, um, close attention. okay? this is serious. because we -- don't you think that we have seen this movie before? right? i feel like i am -- i am just -- i keep reporting the same thing that i have been reporting for almost two years now.

and we are devoting a lot of attention, by the way, devoting tonight's show to the growing covid crisis because it's really, really important. we want to help save lives. and to make sure people don't become infected if you don't have to. what is so sad is those are almost the same words we were saying nearly two years ago when the pandemic first took hold in this country. growing covid crisis. i thought i would finish saying that. growing covid crisis. but here we are, again. we should be over this pandemic by now. or at least, you know, have it somewhat under control, right? aren't you tired? aren't you fatigued by now? i am exhausted. i know you've got to be. but the numbers don't lie. last night, i reported the average-daily number of new cases was just under 120,000. today, the tracking data shows from johns hopkins university um, shows that it's going up. pushing that number way up to nearly 122,000. hospitalizations are soaring. the number of americans dying

every day from covid, 8% higher than just one month ago. do i have your attention yet? here is the problem we are facing right now. too many of us have let our guards down. look. i do it sometimes, as well. right. >> i do it sometimes as well. we all slip up every once in a while. you have the mask, it's below your nose, you don't realize it. we slip up. little things. you know, we are in a room and we should have a mask on and we don't do it. nobody is perfect. okay? we are in the midst of a surge of a highly contagious delta variant, and now omicron is here and spreading extremely quickly. that variant was detected in the u.s. only 17 days ago. and here is what the cdc director is now saying about it. >> at least 39 states and over 75 countries have reported confirmed cases of the omicron variant. and although delta continues to circulate widely in the united states, oh micron is increasing rapidly and we expect it to

become the dominant strain in the united states as it has in other countries in the coming weeks. >> experts are warning that omicron will put more pressure on our hospital system, which is already stressed out. the cdc warning that new hospital admissions could hit record levels in the coming weeks and the list of cancellations and postponements, growing by the day. the nfl, for example, postponing three games this weekend. the nfl -- remember in the beginning? that was it, when the nfl -- excuse me, it was the nba -- shut down. remember that? professional sports started shutting down. and that's when we knew wow. in hockey, a bunch of games have been postponed across the nhl. right here in new york city, where i am broadcasting from -- not far from where i am broadcasting from, that's the where the virus is spiking. a number of broadway shows have had to cancel performances and radio city annual christmas spectacular starring the rockettes, cancelled for the rest of the season. as omicron spreads in the u.s.,

discouraging news from a study in britain where researchers are reporting that there is no evidence that the variant is any less severe than delta. everyone said, okay, doesn't appear to be as severe. phew. maybe, a little sigh of relief. but the study is saying that's not so. we'll see. we'll see. and dr. anthony fauci reports that the two-dose vaccine regimen many americans have already received may not be enough protection against omicron because the vaccines wane a bit. he says that the best medicine is to get the booster shot. >> that's the reason why we are really encouraging very strongly that when you are eligible for boost, to get boosted. because the data i showed indicated that, particularly with omicron, the level of protection goes really, rather low in a -- in a range that may not be as protective as we like. but yet, when you get that boost, it goes right up there.

>> so, before we could get the booster, guess what? we need to get the vaccine. 72 million eligible americans are still unvaccinated. 72 million. what are they waiting for? what are you wait for? covid has already killed more than 800,000 americans, and that toll is climbing as well. but if you are not yet vaccinated, listen to this. this is a very blunt warning from jeff zients of the white house covid team. >> for the unvaccinated, you are looking at a winter of severe illness and death for yourselves, your families, and the hospitals you may soon overwhelm. 160,000 unvaccinated people have already needlessly lost their lives just since june. and this number will continue to go up until the unvaccinated take action. >> we are also learning today that the ceo of southwest

airlines tested positive for covid. remember it was just two days ago that we reported that gary kelly testified at a senate hearing, un-masked, and downplaying the wearing of masks aboard airliners. watch this. >> i think the case is very strong that masks don't add much, if anything, in the air cabin environment. it is very safe and very high quality compared to any other indoor setting. >> well, and tonight kelly says that he now supports the federal requirements to wear face masks on airplanes. we certainly wish him a speedy recovery. and a setback today at pfizer's trials of its vaccine for little kids ages 2 to 5. the company saying two child size doses it is testing as -- um, testing excuse me are not producing the expected immunity. so, it is adding a third dose now. that's going to delay its

application for an emergency-use authorization from the fda in 2022. >> at least from what pfizer is saying, by the time they get all of the necessary data and go through all of the procedure of getting an emergency-use authorization, unfortunately, it's not going to be until the second quarter. but you ought to really get the right dose and the right regimen for the children. so although you don't like there to be a delay, you want to get it right and that's what they are talking about. >> so tonight, once again, i know it sounds like groundhog's day, we have got a growing covid crisis to talk about. so i want to begin with dr. robert, he is the chair of the university of california san francisco department of medicine. doctor, thank you so much for joining us. let's get all these questions out and educate the folks who are watching. good evening to you. you have seen this new uk study that found no evidence that omicron causes less severe disease than delta.

many people had been relying on anecdotal evidence that it is milder. but what are the larger implications here? what do you think of the study? what should people know? >> it's a good study but it's preliminary, don. there's -- there are other studies from south africa that are a little bit more hopeful. you know, a week or two ago, we didn't know any of the three variables. is it more infectious? does it evade the immune system is is it more severe? i think we know it is more infectious now. and as i think the severity question is up in the air and that is a big deal because the cases are clearly going to skyrocket throughout the united states. they are already doing that in new york. they are doing that in miami and some other regions. if it turns out to be a little bit less severe or the same as delta, then we are in pretty bad shape. we are going to see a tocn of cases. it's got to be much, much less severe to save us and i don't think there is a lot of evidence that it's much, much less severe. >> even if -- you said -- again, for the viewer, even if it is a little bit, still trouble. it's got to be -- >> yeah. i mean, the -- the math is sort

of like this. let's say it's 30% less severe but we are seeing three, five, seven times more cases, that still works out badly. that still means the average person has a little bit lower chance of going to the hospital and getting supersick and dying if they get this. this virus. but so many more people are getting infected that you are still going to overwhelm hospitals. you're still going to have more people get supersick, more people go to the icu, and more people dying. so, you know, our hope is that it turns out to be much, much less severe. but the uk study makes that appear somewhat -- somewhat less likely than it would have been before that study. >> you know, this is anecdotal, as well. but just hearing from people saying, my gosh, more people i know, more co-workers, more friends, more people i come in contact with have -- are testing positive. what the heck is going on? is that -- i know it is anecdotal but what do you make of that? >> it'sen ek dotal but it is a

he real because we don't test as much as we need to for variants. but the places that are doing more testing are seeing substantial surges in cases and they are mostly omicron. and so, yeah, i'm having the same experience that you are. i have been doing this for two years now and in the past day, i have got more calls, questions, text messages, you know, so and so of my brother just got infected. what do i do? do i need monoclonals? all that stuff. it is very real and if you look at south africa and then you look at england and you now look at new york. i think what we can expect, this one is -- is not going to be in question anymore. we are going to see a very sharp uptick in cases. two weeks ago, i would have said not till january but that was wrong. think we are going to see starting it in the next week and the doubling time is two to three days meaning you go from one to two to four to 16 to, you know, very big numbers very quickly, over the course of a very short period of time. much, much faster than we have seen in our prior surges.

>> okay so then what is your advice to people if they ask you? do i need monoclonal antibodies? what do you tell them? >> yeah, there is a little nuance about the monoclonal antibodies. the old ones we used for delta don't work very well and there was a different one you have to use for omicron. so you have to figure out which of the variants that you have. what i have been telling people, as you just said, don, you know, you need to get boosted. you need to do everything you can to make your immune system as hearty as it can be because this virus is nastier and much, much more infectious than ones we have seen. i think you need to up your game in terms of trying to avoid infection. if we find out this thing is enormously less severe, then maybe we will all say all right we are all going to get infected but we do not know that yet. and i think at this moment, we have got to be more careful. so i now wear an n95 anytime i am going to be inside be people who i am not 100% sure are boosted. i have stopped indoor dining. i am still willing to fly to

visit family. if you are scheduled to do that in the next week, i think it's okay to do but i would wear an n95. try to keep it on for the entire flight and be very careful when you get to your destination, particularly if it's seeing a surge, i think we need to use the rapid tests more. if you are seeing unvaccinated people or people who are highly vulnerable, you can make the setting much, much safer if everybody tests themselves that day or that morning. >> i am selfishly asking this question. and -- but this play applies to most of the people in our audience. um, should i still get on a plane and go see my mother who is a woman of a certain age for the holidays? and -- because i don't want to bring something home to her. you know, a lot of people have that question. >> yeah, of course. assuming she wants to see you, don. i would -- i would do it. and the reason i would do it is -- is, you know, this is going to be a tough winter but unfortunately, there is no guarantee that next winter is going to be any less tough. unfortunately, we are kind of stuck with this thing for the foreseeable future.

and we now have a lot toofls to make that encounter safe. so i think if you combine high-quality masking. if you combine ventilation and if she is vulnerable -- i don't know what the certain age is, particularly, if she is immunosuppressed or not fully vaccinated, if you test yourself an hour before you see her and it's negative, you can -- you can be quite confident that encounter is safe and you can hug her. and so, i think at some point we have to say we are going to live our lives as well as we can but we are going to dry to diminish the risk to the degree possible. >> that was my motto until we got this surge in cases -- in breakthrough cases noucw what about for the younger folks like my great nephews or anyone in the audience who have young people in their family who are not old enough to get vaccinated? would you suggest being around them? uaw would you suggest wearing masks? what is your advice? >> yeah, i think -- i think it's tricky. i think that is another good use of rapid tebtds. you know, it's -- it would be best if everybody wore a mask around unvaccinated people.

but that's -- you know, it's -- it's tough to do. you are with your loved ones. you want to give them a hug. you want to be in the same room and you want to be comfortable. so i think that is a setting where, if everybody tests themselves before the encounter -- these are the rapid tests you can now buy hopefully in a pharmacy. they are not as cheap as they should be but they are quite accurate in terms of the question you are trying to answer, which is am i infectious that day? and so, if you -- if everybody who is about to see the 3-year-old tests negative with a rapid test and if everybody is fully vaccinated and boosted, i think you can say that's going to be a safe encounter and i think you -- i think we need to begin doing that kind of thing. >> okay. so one more question. um, you said that you don't dine indoors anymore. um, is that a false sense of security? because, you know -- and i asked this question last night to andy slavitt. here in new york city, you have to show your vaccination card, right, and everyone walks in and usually they wear their mask until they get to the table. usually, not all the time. but is that a false sense of

security? everyone is vaccinated, everyone is boosted. you have to show your card and should we continue to do those things? >> a couple things come up. first of all, you can buy -- >> not just in restaurants but in close places, i am getting to the bigger point. should we be in restaurants? should we be around a lot of people for new year's? that's my point. >> right. i am more careful than i would have been a week or two ago and it's sad. i don't want it to be that way. you can buy -- you can buy a fake card for ten bucks online. that is a problem. the cards now -- most of the requirements are that you are, quote, fully vaccinated but that's two shots, that's not fully vaccinated anymore. you really need a booster in order to be fully vaccinated. and so, i have gotten to the point where i think being indoors with other people, whose vaccine status i am not sure of in a place with relatively poor ventilation is not safe enough. and i am comfortable dining outside but i live in san francisco. i don't live in new york. and so, i understand that's not really feasible right now. so i am more careful.

and the good news is this thing is probably only going to last a couple months. south africa, they saw a huge spike and it is already beginning to come down. so we may be in hunker-down mode for couple months and after that, may burn through itself fairly quickly and it's okay to go back to normal. >> is that the same advice for holiday parties? >> a big holiday party, with people whose vaccine status you are not 100% sure of, and when i say 100% sure, i mean gotten fully vaccinated and they have gotten their booster, i would be very careful. if it is a big holiday party and you want to go, i would wear a mask but i have seen a lot of big holiday parties cancelled and i actually think that is a prudent thing to do right now. >> wouchlt wow. best advice that we have gotten, doctor, thank you. i really appreciate it. we are going to have you back. happy holidays. >> thank you. >> the holidays are upon us. we have been talking about christmas eve. one week from tonight, new year's eve the following week. covid spike causing a lot of concern about holiday gatherings. what are the safest ways to

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buildings program at harvard school of public health and the author of "healthy buildings." so, good to have both of you gentlemen on. good evening, dr. reuben, you first. christmas, a week away, families are planning to be together. but with omicron spreading fast, it is making people uneasy. what is the safest way for people to get together this holiday season? >> first, i would say we tend to talk a lot about the different strains of the virus but really what makes the spread really accelerate are our gatherings. it's the travel. and so, if we -- if we are just practical about the strategy that we use as we are traveling to loved ones, the rapid tests that are now available as a way to try to reduce the risk during the gathering itself. and, you know, if you can be outside, be outside. but honestly, we have a host of defenses right now and i think those who are vaccinated and particularly those who are boosted should feel some comfort they may be exposed, they may get milder infection, but so far

we haven't seen a lot of evidence that there is a higher risk of severe disease. but i think we have to avoid speculation right now, in terms of what may or may not happen in the month or two ahead and try to live our lives. >> joe, it's good to see you. didn't think we would be talking about this almost two years later. i mean, you know, the entire pandemic, we were talking about healthy and safe buildings, and here we are again. you are saying the current playbook for dealing with this pandemic isn't going to work the same we with omicron. things like contact tracing or isolating for ten days. so talk to me about that. what needs to change here, sir? >> yeah, don. it's good to be on again and we have been talking about ventilation for two years. we have very little, if any, spread outdoors. so what do you do? you try to make indoors look a lot more like the outdoors. we have been talking about ventilation with you and others for two years now but we have a new threat but we also have new tools and i am optimistic in the sense that we -- we're not defenseless at this point. clearly, omicron is ripping through in the next eight weeks going to be really difficult. and the playbook changes and it

has to change because kinetics of the virus are much different. so things like taking a test 72 hours before a flight is meaningless timt because we see people test negative day one and then test positive with a rapid test 24 hours later. so that is an important change. also, contact tracing's going to become a lot less effective. even the best, most quickest contact tracing we have is not enough to match how fast this virus spreads between two people. so those tools have to go away but some basics still work and clearly, vaccines most important. they are safe, number one. they are effective. fully vaccinated in 2022 is going to mean boosted. that is very clear at this point. and i want to -- i think it is real important for your audience to know it's not too late. the benefit of the booster takes effect within days. so you should go out tomorrow and get that booster shot if you are already vaccinated. if you are unvaccinated, clearly, you need to get vaccinated. >> dr. reuben, houston mayor, sylvester turner, who i talked

to a lot during the pandemic as well during quarantine says he tested positive. he thought he was suffering from allergies or sinus infection. what is your advice? when should peept people get tested and how often? >> i think you can't disregard the cold symptoms or sore throat this christmas or new year's. you should get tested. i think if you are going to attend a gathering, get tested a couple days before and then can test the day of. that gets a little more reliability. but nothing is impenetrable to potential spread but we have to be realistic those who are vaccinated or may be boosted really do have a low risk of severe infection. and that has not changed at least what we are observing thus far with omicron. >> joe, let's talk about, you know, these things are held in buildings, right? we are seeing radio city rockettes cancel the rest of the season. some broadway shows have been cancelled. should people avoid going to large-holiday events? >> well, you know, i think it

comes down to the fundamentals and the basics here, don. we know how to keep people safe in buildings. we know what to do. that hasn't changed. omicron doesn't change. not the recommendations we have been making on things like ventd lagz have not changed. so i think it is going to matter about the context and what protections you already have many n place. if you are vaccinated or boosted and everyone in the space is vaccinated/boosted, that is good protection. if everyone also tested negative, we are seeing lot of organizations move to this as another strategy. i would feel very good in fact in that environment. i also think size of the gathering matters, right? if you are going to a family event. i am going to be with my extended family. feeling really good there. everyone's vaccinated and boosted. not worried about that as a high-risks event. i think the reality is many of us are going to be exposed to this virus in short order. and the virus is either going to find us with a naive immune system or one that is primed with the vaccine of the booster and i think it's very clear at this point which way you want that virus to find you. but we should still do our best to minimize the likelihood that

we catch or spread it to others. i agree, the last comment, pay attention to those early signs of symptoms because the symptoms are coming on early with this virus. so that is an early indicator, don't ignore those things. >> joe, i ask you the same thing i ask the doctor. what about eating at restaurants? should people go back to eating outdoors if they can? >> absolutely. outdoors is definite slafer than indoors. i have been in new york a couple times. recently, i have been eating in restaurants. i think it is about your risk factor. the two biggest risk factors are age and vaccination status and again if everyone's vaccinated, i like what new york city is doing. everyone's sax vax nighted or tested, and then we can get back to some of these things. think the reality is we have to learn how to do exist with this virus. that is going to be the big change in the 2020 playbook. nba is dealing with this. nfl is dealing with this. broadway is dealing with this. universities are dealing with this. we are seeing some go to virtual classes but there is lots of discussion to say, okay, if the threat of severe disease, hospitalization, and death, are is largely removed, how can we

coexist? and i think the answer is yes, we are going do have to figure this that out lgt the next couple weeks. we are seeing these pressures mount on a lot of these industries, already. >> quick last word, dr. reuben. >> yeah, i agree with everything he just said. i think the key is that there is a low risk of severe disease and just remember that this seasonal surge we are seeing, we tend to talk about the virus. but we expected this seasonal surge. it started out in the midwest. and what we are seeing is it's been fairly predictable. it's just that, you know, there's some uncertainty now how long it will last with omicron and how quick the recovery will be. by we have lots of evidence that after the new year, there is going to be a recovery. cases are going to come down. and find a way to live our lives and coexist with this virus. i couldn't agree more. >> thank you, gentlemen, be safe. happy holidays to you. really appreciate it. thank you. thank you. sources telling cnn who the january 6th committee believes sent a text to mark meadows about overturning the 2020 election results. our cnn exclusive is next.

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exclusive cnn reporting revealing members of the committee investigating january 6th believe they now know the identity of the person who sent mark meadows a text message about overturning the 2020 election results. sources telling our jamie gangel and jake tapper that panel members think former trump energy secretary, rick perry, sent the text to meadows on nov 4th just one day after the election. jamie gangel join mess now. jamie, good evening to you. incredible reporting, once again. remind us of this text and why it is so important please. >> so don, let's just put it in perspective. it is as you say the day after election day. votes are still being counted.

the election has not been called. but trump loyalists apparently don't think he is going to win. so according to our sources, member of the january 6th committee believe that rick perry sends this text to meadows. quote, here is an aggressive strategy. why can't the states of georgia, north carolina, pennsylvania, and other r-controlled statehouses declare this is bs where conflicts and election not called that night and just send their own electors to vote and it have it go to scotus. so, don, for the record, a spokesman for rick perry says the former governor denies sending the text but when my partner jake tapper asked how come it came from perry's phone? the spokesman had no explanation. for the record, we confirmed with multiple people who know rick perry well, who have his number, that is in fact his

number. the committee believes it's his number. so, just imagine this is a text saying ignore the voters. subvert the will of the people. here is a plan. aggressive strategy to steal the election, don. >> yeah, i want to -- i want to, um, pick up on something that you said. the timing of the text, right? it's absolutely critical. it was sent the day after the -- after election day. many states weren't even called yet, right? and it's just one text from the many that the committee anyway has in their hands or that they revealed. how does the panel plan to piece together all of this information, jamie? >> so, look. we have seen trump loyalists defy the committee and not testify. but this is very important because it's what is going on behind the scenes. i'm told this test -- text is significant but it's one of many significant texts. the tip of the iceberg. and what we are going to see is

the committee's going to put together a timeline. and now, they have -- it's not just testimony -- they have these texts in black and white, real-time evidence of what was being said and this is all going to come out in hearings with names attached to the texts. just to underscore, we have to remind everyone, mark meadows handed this over without any claim of privilege. don. >> so, we can't forget what perry said, right, when he was running as a presidential candidate. let's remind everyone, this was back in 2015. he was running against trump. watch. >> let no one be mistaken. donald trump candidacy is a cancer on conservatism and it must be clearly diagnosed, excised, and discarded. it cannot be pacified or ignored, for it will destroy a

set of prels. >> so what happened? >> beware of the videotape. i don't know, don. rick perry should know better. all these people should know better. i don't know how we got to liz cheney and -- and adam kinzinger. rick perry was the longest-serving governor of texas three terms. he was cabinet secretary. he kept a pretty low profile but i want to read you one more line that rick perry said that day about trump. quote, he offers a carnival act that can best be described as trumpism. a toxic mix of demagoguery, mean-spiritedness, and nonsense that will lead the republican party to perdition if pursued. rick perry, apparently, forgot his own warning don. >> thank you very much. jamie gangel, appreciate it. >> sure. vague threats of school violence spreading across tiktok. putting schools across the country on high alert. the threats weren't seen as

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parents and school officials on edge today. vague and incredibly broad warnings of violence in schools across the nation going viral on social media overnight. schools from minnesota to texas cancelling classes or ramping up security in response to the warning that originated on tiktok. the department of homeland security says there is no evidence the threats are credible. still, authorities are asking the public to remain on alert. another day of anxiety. juliette kayyem and kim druk, a mental health expert who is author of "the real rules of life." good evening to both of you. juliette, i am going to start with you. here is the thing. whether or not this threat was a hoax, the everyday threat of school violence is very, very real, and so is the fear behind all of this, is that correct?

>> it's not irrational in -- in terms of it's not inconceivable that someone would walk into a school these days and try to shoot children, whether it's another student or a stranger. i think the challenge is that the threats that we face and the intelligence that is just being thrown at us every single day is really hard to manage for -- for the layperson. for the school official, for the parent. so, you hear that there is a threat. and you're just making calculations every day of, you know, should i wait? should they go to school or should hthey not? and these are risk calculations most people either don't want to or haven't lived with for most their lives and i think that is the challenge that we are facing now. in this particular case, because the threat was so generalized, and it was sort of thrown out there on tiktok. it wasn't a specific individual. it was lots of kids were responding to it. either, joking or -- or amplifying it.

i think most people would have looked at that and said it -- it's -- it's unlikely it's going to trigger school violence. but that's -- that's -- you know, that's a hard calculation for any individual school to make so i'm -- i'm sympathetic to the ones that close. although, think they were incorrect. >> well, especially in this environment, right? when you look at what just happened and what keeps happening. so tiktok, ken, putting out a statement today saying all they found is what juliette indicated here. found videos people discussing the rumor, adding quote local authorities, the fbi, and dhs is confirmed there no credible threat so we are working to remove alarmist warnings that violate our misinformation policy. what does this kind of thing to do kids who -- who see it and believe that they are in danger? >> you know, we live on edge. we live in a world on edge. this is another edge for the kids. it's another edge, should i go

to school? is it safe to walk into my class? and it's also their parents are hovering and saying is it safe to send my kid to school? so in this new not-normal world, you know, as juliette said, we are having to live with questions and process and think critically about things that we've never really gotten in game shape to be able to decide about. and at times, we're going to overreact. and at other times, we are going to just dismiss it and live in denial. but we have to find that balance, and we have to depend upon people to -- to assess and help us assess whether it's a real threat or a false threat. >> juliette, there is a "washington post" reporter named dan zach who recently called the threat of school violence a terror tax we all pay. and in oxford, the school shooter faces a terrorism charge. is it time to recognize this is a form of terrorism? >> it -- it is. i don't like to use that word too, um -- i don't like to

generalize that word. it has a specific meaning and the reason why i want to keep it specific is because i actually do think it applies to conduct that we are seeing in another realm, right, in the sort of anti-democratic realm where people are using violence or the threat of violence to control our democracy and to control our levers of government. so, terrorism is different than terror. and i think the challenge we have right now -- the exhaustion we are all feeling, especially -- not -- you don't have to have kids to feel this exhaustion but the calculation many parents are making right now is i -- or -- one hopes is you cannot get the risk to zero. so get that out of your head so whether it's covid or school violence or whatever it is, right, so you're -- you're -- as a parent or anyone in society, you are just trying to minimize risk in the best way possible. you are trying to maximize the protections you give your children, right? whether it's a bike helmet or it's a booster shot or it is eat vaccine. um, or it's see something, say something.

but remember, there is a third piece to it, right? it's not just minimizing risk or maximizing our defenses. it is also maintaining who we are. and i think -- i sometimes worry we're forgetting that. our -- our sort of fears, whether it's -- it's a new outbreak and how we should live, we should be cautious but how we should live are keeping us and our children maybe more hindered than they should be. there will be a risk to our children, there will be risk to us. and -- and it's not -- it's not good but the alternative is what? right? i mean, the alternative is living a life that's not very desirable. >> but can you be overly cautious in this environment? and again, this is really terrorism more with juliette and ken right after this break. don't go anywhere.

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back with me now, ken druk and juliette kayyem. kids have just come back from over a year of learning remotely. they've been through really a ton of disruption. now you have these episodes like this. what do kids need right now from adults and their communities? >> well, you know, i think -- and your question at the end of the last segment about overreacting, i think we can't be running around with our hair on fire. we need to be balanced. we need to be talking to other parents. we need to be talking -- if we're in a couple relationship, we need to be balancing these things out so that we're effective with our kids, we're opening the line of communication, especially with listening, by asking open-ended questions. we're going to find out how our kids feel about all this, what they think the good options are. so we're in a conversation rather than feeling like we have to do all the work. look, we live in a world where a lot of people are in denial,

whether we're talking about covid. the overreaction is there. we could be overreacting to all the people who are underreacting, who are in denial about what needs to happen, and who prosare allowing new variano multiply. we need to not overreact and catch ourselves being -- you know, saying nobody else is doing this. i feel helpless, i'm fearful. and balance ourselves and be calm with our kids to the extent we can be and ask them the open-ended questions so it's a conversation. >> juliette, truer words have never been spoken because you say people want to be done with covid. they want clear answers about how long we need to worry about and when it's all going to be over. how do we approach a world where these threats just continue because, you know, look, almost two years now i've been saying, and the growing threat, and the growing covid crisis, and it's still growing after two years. >> so it is -- it is, and it

isn't. so a couple ways i think about this now. i mean the first is of course as the previous panel with my friend joe allen, look, this is not 2020. so let's not say it's 2020. in other words, the tools we have, whether it's vaccination or boosters or treatment now, which is completely underplayed. you know, the treatments that we have, better testing make us stronger, make us more resilient against a virus that continues to not end. but this is then the second part. i think this idea of a time when, you know, we get to unicorns and rainbows, just get it out of your head. in other words, we keep talking about this new normal as if there's a place. there is no new normal, right? this is normal. i think one way to ground ourselves and in particular our kids is to stop saying in two weeks. remember two weeks and then it was two months, and then if we could just get through christmas. in other words, what normal is

now is we are learning to manage and adapt around a virus who is killing people who do not have the defenses against it and is harming or infecting people to a much lesser extent who do have the defenses. we are going to adapt around that sort of unfortunate division in society right now and try to push people to vaccinations. but i've gotten over talking about the end of covid. i talked about, you know, and write about this sort of adaptive recovery stage where we're just kind of adapting every day. i call it the now normal. that's what i say at home. we're here now, and don't talk about some finish line because that will drive you nuts. it's the holidays. many of us can see our family, maybe not in the same circumstances we had hoped, and that's now, right? and we'll see what happens tomorrow and just, you know, get vaccinated. do everything you can for those defenses. but stop thinking about a finish line. >> yeah. that's a very good attitude to have. i have a friend who says, okay. i look at it as this is what we're doing right now.

maybe in a year it will be something else. we shall see. >> yeah. >> good advice. good attitude. >> also, don, we have the opportunity to mobilize. each one of us can do things not only personally but in our community, in our family to be part of the solution to move away from becoming part of the problem. and i think we all need to do that self-audit that said, am i doing anything to escalate? am i doing anything to contribute to the problem? and is the way i treat other people, is the way i'm addressing this, is the time i commit to making my community a better, safer place contributing in some way to the solution? and we all have that opportunity, and for me, that is true patriotism. >> yeah. thank you. thank you both. happy holidays to you both. thank you. >> happy holidays, don. the omicron variant rapidly spreading across the u.s. as the country braces for a viral blizzard of infections. one expert suggesting to cnn this country could even see a

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