good evening. we begin tonight with what might seem like a contradiction even as covid cases are climbing to levels not seen before and more than 1,300 people a day are still dying, there is talk in and around the biden administration about planning for a time when covid is no longer a pandemic but still a fact of life. listen to the president when asked today whether americans

should prepare to live with covid forever. >> no, i don't think covid is here to stay. but having covid in the environment here and in the world is probably here to stay. but covid, as we are dealing with it now, is not here to stay. the new normal doesn't have to be. we have so many more tools we're developing, and continue to develop that can contain covid and other strains of covid. the new normal is not going to be what it is now, it's going to be. >> now, remember, this comes at the end of a period that has seen new cases more than triple since christmas, and hospitalizations climb sharply. and it comes, of a week of confusing statements from the cdc and some damage control from the agency. also, clashes, confrontation, a lot of understandable angst over schools re-opening. also, the supreme court hearing oral arguments today on challenges to the administration's vaccine mandate for big businesses, as well as healthcare workers. there is a lot for the week.

add to it, six former advisers to the president are now calling for new measures to move toward this or at least plan for this new normal. in a piece published yesterday in the journal of the american medical association, ezekiel emmanuel, celine gounder, and michael osterholm right, with endemic covid-19, more people in the u.s. will unnecessarily experience morbidity and mortality, health inequities with widen and trillions will be lost from the u.s. economy. dr. ezekiel manuel served on the guisery board, he is also author of which country has the world's best healthcare? dr. manuel, you and your colleagues laid out in these journal articles this really fascinating. you talked about a new normal. what would the new normal look like, practically speaking? and what needs to happen to get to that point? >> well, the new normal is the weigh way we will flu, we are going to live with coronavirus.

it is going to be around, people are going to get infected but hopefully, few people will be hospitalized and even fewer people will die from it. and we will be able to go about our lives as we did before. but covid is going to be part of the equation. it's just not going to go away. we are not going to get rid of this virus. >> will -- for instance, will you be wearing a mask out in public in this new normal when it's endemic? >> most of the time, we will not be wearing a mask. but say, there was a flare-up and a concentrated high number of cases, then you might don a new -- a mask for that short period of time. >> but you don't think it's something -- i mean, you don't think, in the future, everyone's going to want to wear a mask at the gym because it's an indoor space? >> no. in the endemic situation, where covid is just part of the viral-respiratory illnesses we confront, we won't. part of what will make that

happen is at the gym, we will have much better ventilation than they generally have now. they'll have air filters, they will have hepa filters and by the way, the prevalence of covid in the community will be much lower. >> obviously, testing has been a major issue, particularly during this omicron surge. people can't find at-home rapid tests, pcr texts can take several days to get results. what do you think needs to happen to get testing to a better place? >> well first of all, what we were discussing in our articles is not for the immediate time. it is a strategic plan for three to 12 months. but immediately, we created the testing infrastructure and then when the vaccines came along, everyone thought, well, we're past this and let it go away. we need to re-create a testing

infrastructure. much more pcr testing, much more at-home testing, and a much more coherent strategy for what happens when someone tests positive, so that they get the appropriate treatment whether it's the new oral medications from pfizer and merck or a monoclonal antibody. or if they are not eligible for those, they can go on to a research study and they are advised about how to isolate, so as not to infect other people. we don't have that kind of infrastructure. so we need to build more testing capacity, more tests authorized, produce more, and create a closer link between testing and treating people. >> the -- the time when it becomes endemic -- the time when you are talking about, um, you know, kind of the new normal. when do you see that taking place? and what gets us there? because i mean, why aren't -- wouldn't there just be endless new variants that -- that happen a year from now, two years from now, three years from now, that, you know, and it's this up and down and we don't know what to

expect. does the virus just kind of weaken over time? >> well, first of all, we have, in flu, new variants every year. and what do we do? well, we vaccinate they're not as deadly. we take precautions. we have to get to a situation where what we're seeing it -- from coronavirus is not big surges. we need many more people vaccinated in this case. we need additional therapies, not just the couple of oral therapies we currently have. we need to upgrade our -- our air filtration system. there's -- we got to get the prevalence down, and then we will be able to get to a new normal. it's possible with omicron, belle get to a normal toward the middle to end of the year but we didn't know and we have to plan for various scenarios, including a pessimistic scenario where we have a new variant. a positive scenario, where omicron is the sort of last serious variant and it's not going to be outcompeted. um, and we can get to the new

normal much more rapidly. >> hospitalizations are the highest they have ever been for kids since the start of the pandemic. how concerned should parents of younger kids who aren't old enough to get vaccinated -- how concerned should they be, especially since the u.s. is months away from children under 5 being eligible. >> well, look, it is a concern. partially, a result that they have small nasopharynx. so, small throat and a little inflammation from the virus probably closes them off, and makes breathing and other things hard. um, and the main thing that you have to do, again, is what do we have? by don't have a vaccine for them. so we have to rely on the public-health mitigation measures. we shouldn't take them into public places, like restaurants and grocery stores. um, you should wait for the

frequency of cases to come down before lots of socialization. um, we should really make sure, when we mix with other people, that people. that is not a guarantee as we know but it reduces the risk of getting infected. >> there's been a lot of confusion with, you know, changing cdc guidelines, isolation time, masks. bottom line, if you were advising the president, what should priority-number one be right now to get past where we are? >> well, unfortunately, if you vaccinate today, the people who were unvaccinated -- who account for about 75% of the hospitalizations -- it's not really gonna make a big difference over the next month because they need a second shot and then 14 days after the second shot. public health measures that we've mentioned -- better-air quality, masking, not going into crowded-indoor spaces -- those are really important measures in

order to get past omicron. what we're suggesting is that's for this immediate moment but you need to plan today for three months from now so we are not caught in the same problem. i think one of the problems we have with the testing regime is we didn't plan in june/july for how to properly use at-home tests, mixed with pcrs and make sure that the whole system was operating smoothly, and then connecting it to any potential therapies we had -- at that time, the monoclonal therapies. so, if we plan today, we won't have a recurrent or shouldn't have a recurrence of this -- these shortages and things in the next few months. >> dr. ezekiel manuel, really appreciate it. thank you. >> thank you. again, supreme court heard oral arguments today on vaccine mandates. joining us now, jeffrey toobin and chief white house correspondent, kaitlan collins. >> jeff, you heard oral arguments. the question from the justices today. what way do you think they are leaning? >> it went badly for the biden

administration not because the lawyers did a bad job but because there is a project with the conservatives at the supreme court just like there is a project to eliminate abortion rights, there is a project to limit the power of the administrative state. limit the ability of the government to issue regulations under federal law. that's what was really going on at the supreme court and it did seem there were five -- probably six -- justices who were interested in telling the biden admin -- administration you cannot impose a requirement to vaccinate or have testing with large employers. >> kaitlan, was there any reaction from the biden administration, so far? >> well obviously, hearing how skeptical several of the justices were when it comes to these arguments that the justice department is making is not what they wanted to see play out in these oral arguments. and, anderson, the white house has said they are confident in the legal authority for both of these rules because, remember,

you have got the one for the private employers that have 100-or-more employees when it comes to vaccine requirements and of the other for healthcare employers, that get funding from medicare or medicaid. it kind of broke twofold where they seemed much more skeptical if you heard justices of the prior mandate than of the bun with the federal funding given their healthcare workers, working with people who may have -- be immunocompromised. certainly, liberal justices on the court today. but i think it really remains to be seen and i think the white house listening to those arguments could hear the skepticism when it came to what the justices were saying, the questions they were asking about these two arguments. >> jeff, i know this one thing justice kagan said stood out to you and i want to play that for our viewers. >> all the secretary is doing here is to say to providers, you know what, like basically the one thing you didn't do is to kill your patients. so, you have to get -- you have to get vaccinated so that you are not transmitting the disease that can kill elderly medicare patients, that can kill sick medicaid patients.

>> what -- why was that significant to you? >> well, i mean, it was just so blunt, and it was just an example of how the three rib liberals -- kagan, sotomayor, and breyer, were saying look we are in a crisis. this is why we have a federal government. the federal government is paying medicare and medicaid to all these hospitals and they want to make sure that the hospitals don't kill their patients. what could possibly be wrong with that? >> that's an argument, frankly, i found pretty persuasive. but i think, you know, the intensity of the conservative opposition to federal power here and -- and the belief that power should go to states and that the federal government should be limited is really strong even in, um, the -- um -- the context of when the government is paying the bill. it is true, i think as kaitlan pointed out, they were slightly

more sympathetic to the -- you know when the government pays, they can make rule as opposed to they can just make rules for all the large employers but it was an uphill battle for the -- for the biden administration today. and i wouldn't -- i wouldn't have high hopes if i were them. >> and is there any sense, jeff, on how quickly a ruling might come? >> well, you no he, one of the more remarkable things with samuel alito, who was very hostile to the biden administration, said well you know, some of this starts -- some of the requirements start on monday. shouldn't we issue an order today? and the supreme court almost never does something the day of an argument and it looks like they are not going to do something today but that was just indicative, i thought, of how quickly the conservatives want to work, want to move in this area.

they haven't moved tonight but i would anticipate we hear something in a matter, certainly of weeks, if not days from -- from the supreme court. >> and, kaitlan, if the vaccine mandates are struck down, either completely or in part, what is the next step for the administration? >> i think it is a really tough one for them, anderson, because one of the most aggressive steps that you saw president biden take when it came to that period in september, when the delta wave had swept across the u.s. and there was a sense of frustration where people just were not getting vaccinated. the unvaccinated were staying so. they were being stubborn in the president's eyes. and so, he took this step that he said he did not want to take. and i should note, it did take the white house quite some time -- the administration -- to draft this rule. this one that comes from those private employers and i followed this process pretty closely. so, two months because they knew it was going to face some legal resistance. they knew republican states and republican officials were going to file lawsuits against this. but they have been watching this

really closely. a lot has hinged on this. even questions of are you going to change the definition of what it means to fully vaccinated? you have heard from chief of staff ron klain say they are waiting to see what happens with these arguments, first, actually, given of course what the definition is, the -- the legal wording all of this. they are watching this so closely, so a lot does hinge on this and of course, as jeffrey was noting when it comes to that mandate for private employers, it seemed really skeptical for the administration. >> yeah. complaint kaitlan collins, jeff toobin. next, ted cruz groveling at the feet of a capable tv entertainer being forced to eat his words about the capitol insurrection. what it says about him -- i mean, that's one thing. what it says about his party and the country is another. we'll talk about it, keeping 'em honest. later, chicago mayor lori lightfoot joins us to talk about her confrontation with teachers, the teachers union over in-person learning which erupted this week in the country third largest school system now has the attention of the white house. is is how it feels to know you have a wealth plan that covers everything that's important to you. this is what it's like to have a dedicated fidelity advisor looking at your full financial picture. making sure you have the right balance of risk and reward.

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but in so many way, we have already been reckoning of the with the state of the union. in a moment, you are going to see the sheer spectacle of one of the most powerful individuals in the country representing one of the biggest states in the nation pretty much groveling at the feet of a right-wing cable tv entertainer, which certainly reflects the state of the union. first, though, how the president summed it up in his remarks on the anniversary of the capitol insurrection. >> are we going to be a nation that accepts political violence as a norm? are we going to be a nation where we allow partisan-election officials to overturn the legally expressed will of the people? arguing to be a nation that lives not by the light of the truth but of the shadow of lies. you can't love your country, only when you win. you can't obey the law, only when it's convenient. you can't be patriotic when you embrace and enable lies. >> the president went on to say

autocrats are betting this country will become more like theirs, but he said that's not who we are. now, given the substance of his own remarks and the climate surrounding them, maybe the answer is, yeah, it is, at least for a substantial number of people in the country, especially within, sadly to say, the republican party. and in that spirit tonight, i give you senator ted cruz. assuming the position last night before fox entertainer tucker carlson, who had already raked him over the coals the night before. senator cruz's alleged sin was having the gumption or whatever you want to call it, having dared on wednesday to refer to the assault on the capitol as a terrorist attack. something, it turns out, he's done 17 times before. but you know what they say about 18 times. actually, they don't say anything about 18 times but tucker carlson in the noticed it this time, perhaps, and that was enough to trigger this whacked-out spectacle. >> you never use words carelessly.

and yet, you called this a terror attack when, by no definition, was it a terror attack. it was a lie. you told that lie on purpose and i am wondering why you did. >> well, tucker, thank you for having me on. when you aired your episode last night, i sent you a text shortly thereafter and said listen i would like to go on because the way i phrase things yesterday, it was sloppy and it was frankly dumb. >> i don't buy that. whoa, whoa, whoa. look, i have known you a long time since before you went to the senate. you were a supreme court contender. you take words as seriously as any man who ever served in the senate. and every word -- you repeated that phrase. i do not believe that you used that accidentally. >> so, tucker, as a result of my sloppy phrasing, it's caused a lot of people to misunderstand what i meant. let me tell you what -- what i meant to say. i wasn't saying that the thousands of peaceful protestors supporting donald trump are somehow terrorists. i wasn't saying the millions of -- of patriots across the country supporting president trump are terrorists and that's what a lot of people have misunderstood. >> wait a second.

hold on. what you just said doesn't make sense. >> so, tucker, let me answer you directly. the reason i used that word for a decade, i have referred to people who violently assault police officers as terrorists. i have done so over and over and over, again. if you look at all the assaults we have seen across the count i have called that terrorism over and over, again. that being said, tucker, i agree with you. itself a mistake to say that yesterday and the reason is what you just said which is we have now had a year of democrats and the media twisting words, and trying to say that all of us are terrorists. >> backs in the corner. tucker giving that quizzical look he practices so hard. and then, he had to -- he did the twist, hoping that by blaming the media, blaming democrats, carlson would get back on his side. didn't work. according to cnn's daniel dale, ted cruz called the capitol assault a terrorist attack at least 17 previous times in official written statements, and tweets, and remarks at senate hearings and in interviews. but the issue isn't his hypocrisy, really, only his abject subordination of himself.

a sitting-u.s. senator. one of only 100. someone with actual influence -- a former-presidential candidate, nonetheless, groveling at the feet of tucker carlson. which is quite a comedown after groveling if he feet of the president. but all the same, remember when candidate trump insulted his wife's looks? >> i don't get angry often. but you mess with my wife, mess with my kids, that will do it every time. donald, you're a sniveling cowered, and leave heidi the hell alone. >> how many times you think he practiced that one? probably a lot. also the former president also insinuated cruz's father was involved in president kennedy's assassination, among other false claims and insults and remember recently he said running for president and losing was like the greatest experience of his life, the most fun he had in years? don't think it's that fun for his wife. cruz stood firm, then crumbled.

year ago, he was leading the effort to overturn the election on january 6th. by last february, he was fully supine. >> and you know what? there are a whole lot of voices in washington that want to just erase the last four years. want to go back to the world before, and they look at donald j. trump, and they look at the millions and millions of people inspired, who went to battle fighting alongside president trump and they are terrified. and they want him to go away -- let me tell you this right now, donald j. trump ain't going anywhere. >> so yeah, ted cruz has the spine of a cantaloupe. now, remember the time that he blamed his daughters as the reason he was quickly trying to get on a plane to mexico for vacation during the state's power crisis? >> yesterday, my daughter asked if they could take a trip with some friends and heidi and i agreed so i flew down with them last night.

>> yeah. wasn't the case. his hypocrisy, it is not really the issue here. i mean, it's interesting to look at and we have seen it time and time, again. but the real issue is why? i mean, the answer -- why would -- why would he be so docile and -- to tucker carlson? and the reason is because at the end of the day, the power of the republican party is now at the fringes. that's where the energy is. energy the ted cruzs of the world are betting will drive voters to the polls or a year ago, drove mobs to storm the very institution that senator cruz is supposed to serve. here now are some of the numbers behind this. cnn senior data reporter harry enten. harry, i mean, i -- it was -- yeah. i mean, i was almost going to say i felt bad for cruz but i mean, he's so smarmy and hypocritical, it's hard to. i don't take glee in his sweaty, you know, failures. but is there any data to shed light on why cruz might be so

quick to backpedal on himself. >> i mean remember, six years ago which feels like so long ago even though it was only six years ago, the very conservative republicans loved ted cruz. actually beat donald trump amongst them 42% to 36% but then jump forward to the general elections of 2016 and 2020 and the very conservative republicans -- look at this. in 2016, trump got 97% of their vote. in 2020, he got 99% of their vote. you don't have to be a mathematician to know that is pretty much nearly unanimous. donald trump is in charge of this republican party and that's what's going on with ted cruz. >> so for any would-be 2024 republican presidential contender, how important to very conservative voters is some sort perceived allegiance to the former president? that would seem critical. >> its extremely important. we asked that question essentially in our poll in september, is supporting trump an important part of being republican? look at this. 60% said very important. 22% said somewhat important. so important anyway is north of

80%. and when it comes to, say, the election of 2020, donald trump put out that garbage that it was somehow a fraud which obviously isn't true. did biden legitimately win enough votes to win the presidency? among very conservative republicans, 87% said no. 67% said no, there is solid evidence he did not. now, i don't know what the heck they are seeing. solid evidence? what are they nuts? but 67% believe it. >> i was also fascinated ted cruz has tucker carlson's i guess his cell phone number, just like you know, ingram and all them had the president's number and mark meadows' number. in the appearance on -- on fox, cruz was obviously adding to the disinformation about the attack on january 6th. can you talk a little about how many republicans actually believe those lies? >> yeah. i mean, look, if you ask republican voters essentially, you know, do you believe what

happened in january 6th was extremely or very violent? overall, across everybody, it's 64 prgs. but only 39% of republicans believe that. but then i think you can go even deeper to get to the real fringes of the republican party and the trump voters and you essentially ask was there pretty much any violence that was committed? or did everyone act peacefully? and look at that. yeah, vast majority of trump voters say there were some injured police officers at 72 but 23% -- a substantial portion of trump voters say that everyone acted peacefully. i don't know what they need to see. the proof is right there in the pudding yet a quarter of them somehow do not believe there were, in fact, some violent folks on january 6th. >> just lastly looking ahead to 2024, where do things stand between the former president and senator cruz? >> yeah, donald trump is in a very good position. he is north of 50% of the republican vote right now. by my estimate, look at ted cruz. he is just at 3% but perhaps if he texts tucker carlson more, he can get up to 4 or 5%. >> harry enten, thank you. coming up, the three men who

chased and murdered ahmaud arbery while he was jogging have been sentenced to life in prison. cnn's ryan young joins us next with the latest. make a name for yourself. have a firm grip. always dress for success. and you gotta show 'em who's boss. thanks for coming in. we'll get back to you. hustle, sure, but for what matters. when you do, it leads to amazing. welcome to the next level. the all-new lexus nx. ♪ (birds chirping) ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ (phone beep) ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ (music quieter) ♪ (phone clicks) ♪ ♪

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neighbor william roddy bryan were found guilty in november on multiple murder counts, as well as other charges for arbery's death in 2020. cnn national correspondent ryan young, tonight, has details. >> today, the defendants are being held accountable for their actions. >> reporter: two of the three men convicted of killing ahmaud arbery. travis and gregory mcmichael received life without the possibility of parole. >> after ahmaud arbery fell, the mcmichaels turned their backs to a disturbing image and whacked away. this was a killing. it was callous. >> reporter: sentenced to serve life with the possibility of parole after 30 years. >> he had grave concerns that what had occurred should not have occur ed and i think that does make mr. bryan's situation a little bit different. however, he has been convicted of felony murder. >> reporter: before reading the sentences, the judge paused for one minute.

>> i want us to get a concept of time, so what i'm going to do is i'm going to sit silently for one minute. i kept coming back to the terror that must have been in the mind of the man running through satilla shores. >> reporter: and the court heard a powerful statement from ahmaud arbery's family. >> i laid you to rest. i told you i love you and someday, somehow, i would get you justice. >> reporter: his mother spoke directly to her son, and to the men responsible for his death. >> these men have chose to lie and attack my son and his surviving family. they each have no remorse and do not deserve any leniency. this wasn't a case of mistaken identity or mistaken fact.

they chose -- they chose to target my son, when they couldn't sufficiently scare him or intimidate him, they killed him. >> reporter: taking aim at a defense attorney's comments during the trial. >> his long, dirty toenails. >> reporter: about her son's toenails. >> i wish he would have cut and cleaned his toenails before he went out for that jog that day. i guess he would have if he knew he would be murdered. >> reporter: arbery's family was clear, they wanted the maximum sentence possible. >> my family, we got to live with his death the rest of our life. we will never see ahmaud again. so, i feel they should stay behind them bars the arrest of they life because they didn't give him a chance. >> the loss of ahmaud has devastated me and my family. so i am asking the men that killed him be given the maximum sentence available to the

court. >> reporter: last november the mcmichaels and brian were convicted of murder after chasing 25-year-old ahmaud arbery in their vehicles while he jogged in the satilla shores neighborhood. killing him after they say they thought they arbery in an unfinished home. >> what is the status of the federal hate crime charges against arbery's murderers? >> we learned today apparently federal prosecutors went to wanda cooper jones and asked about a plea deal apparently offered to the three defendants and was for 30 years and they turned it down because they thought this would happen today in court in terms of getting that life. when you think about this family, anderson, that's been through so very much, it was an emotional day in court. i don't believe a lot of people thought the judge was going to sum things up the way he did. that moment of silence in that court, his description of that

chase and what happened afterwards and the body language of all three men was something that stuck with a lot of people. let's forgot forget it's wanda cooper jones, that mother who decided there was no way her son could have been involved in what initially was said, and that video released really changed all of this for everyone across the nation. because when you see this video you understand the distress that man was under as he was running for his life. >> brian young, i appreciate the reporting. thank you. coming up chicago's mayor joins me live with the latest on the fate of the schools after no classes for the last three days. how much longer will the standoff go on with other cities keeping in-person classes going? that's next. living with metastatic breast cancer means being relentless. because every day matters. and having more of them is possible with verzenio.

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days. tonight, the union accused the mayor of turning down an offer for thousands of so-called shield tests, which are saliva-based, along with ppe. >> we have been fighting for resources for months. our teachers are ready to work. they've been ready to work. they've been ready to work remotely under safe conditions. our members have caught covid. our students have caught covid. they are catching covid all over the world. there is a surge. it's not just a surge here in chicago. >> chicago mayor lori lightfoot joins me tonight. appreciate you being with us. so, where do things stand right now? i mean, will teachers and students be in school on monday? >> well, i think we have made significant progress over the last two days, but i want a deal done this weekend. our kids need to be back in school. schools are safe. there's been no question about that. uh, we have, as all school systems across our city, across our -- our -- our state and our nation -- when there is a need to shut down a classroom or even

a school because of a surge, we -- we have been doing that. and we have been doing that all year long. so, this is an unnecessary and illegal work stoppage and i have drawn the line. we are not going to remote for the whole system. it's completely unnecessary. look. i get that people are scared. this omicron surge is real. and we're doing everything that we can across our city to mitigate it. and answer to all of these questions is vaccine, vaccine, vaccine. and i wish the ctu leadership would work with us but we need our bids back in school. not only because schools are safe but having them in -- out of school and certainly in remote has been catastrophic for their learning, their social-emotional welfare, as well as a very difficult, um, economic consequences for our families. we are a school system where 70% of the kids or more are

qualified for free or reduced lunch. that means we got a lot of single-parent households, a lot of moms working multiple jobs who cannot afford to miss work. we need our kids back in school. >> what, specifically, at this point -- i mean, are the teachers demanding that is something that's, you know, you think not something that you can do? >> well, remote learning for any period of time is off the table. um, from a system-wide standpoint. as i said, when we have needed it, we can strategically target those resources and pivot, if necessary. and the difference between now and a year ago was, obviously, we have vaccines for a huge swath of our school-based population. i think that the issues that are on the table, as i understand them, we can narrow the divide and get a deal done. and i'm pushing my team to make sure that we are working around the clock to get that done. but there is no reason why we can't get a deal done this weekend, and get our kids back in school. but it's got to be good will on

both sides, and i am hoping that the -- the productivity that we've seen over the last two days will continue through the weekend. and we're going to be able to announce a deal to get our kids back in school. >> the white house says they have been in touch with both you and -- and the governor to, quote, assess your needs. governor pritzker told bloomberg news he asked for testing. what have your conversations with federal authorities been like? and what is, specifically, the issue on testing that could help? >> well, look. we -- we've been in contact with the -- the white house from the very beginning of this. both to update them and let them know what the conditions were on the ground here, to ask for more testing. the governor and i have had multiple conversations, so we are in a good, i think, place with both our governor and the white house. but fundamentally, anderson, as you know, there is a shortage of testing nationwide. we are going to provide as much testing as we possibly can but recognizing that, right now, across the country there is a shortage of tests. but even working within those constraints, and we put on the table i think a testing regime

that will address a lot of the union's concerns. we had, i think, very productive dialogue today around testing and other issues, which is why i'm confident that if there is good will on both sides, we can get a deal done. >> well, why do you think school districts in new york city, washington, d.c. have been able to move forward with in-person learning, your city hasn't? >> well, we are the only school system in our city -- cps -- that hasn't. that has shut down and isn't doing in-person learning. every other school system -- archdiocese, private schools, and so forth, are all doing in-person learning without interruption. look, i don't want to get into the politics of this but, unfortunately, some people like to politicize the pandemic and that's not just something that happens on one side of the

political divide. and unfortunately, that's what's playing out here. but i'm determined, i am resolute. i have said enough and enough is we are going to get our kids back to in-person learning. >> mayor lori lightfoot, appreciate it. thanks very much. up next, breaking news in the investigation on the january 6th insurrection last year. new reporting on the select committee's interest in former vice president pence and the former president's daughter ivanka. we'll be right back. this... is the planning effect. this is how it feels to have a dedicated fidelity advisor looking at your full financial picture. this is what it's like to have a comprehensive wealth plan with tax-smart investing strategies designed to help you keep more of what you earn.

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breaking news. npr reports that the house select committee is expected to ask former vice president mike pence to voluntarily appear before the panel. bennie thompson said it could come as soon as this month. also that thompson is not ruling out requests for information from the president's daughter ivanka, who is a white house senior advisor. committee's information that she tried to get her father to call off the riot. joining me is chris krebs, he led the department of homeland security cybersecurity agency in the last administration. he was fired after rejecting the former president's baseless climbs of widespread voter fraud.

chris, good to have you back. what do you make of this reporting by npr? given that there has been reporting that former vice president's top aides have been cooperating, how crucial could hearing from the vice president himself be for the committee? >> well, i think it's an indication that we could be nearing the final stages of an investigation. now, i'm not a former department of justice, you know, attorney or anything like that, but i do know that the committee staff is built on top of a number of experienced u.s. attorneys. so i think they are laddering up. they started with the ground troops and they are working up the organization to understand what led to not just the terrible events of january 6th at the capitol and the assault on the capitol, but what was going on behind the scenes, what was going on with the coordination to object to the certification of the various states. so, you know, i think they are

taking a multi-layered approach, but tells me if they are looking to have a conversation with the former vice president and the family of the former president that that's -- those are the crown jewels of any investigation. >> npr reporting, talks about the committee being over to ivanka trump voluntarily appearing before the committee. it seems hard to imagine that she actually would do that for a whole host of reasons. >> yeah, but either rejecting the subpoena and litigating or taking fifth amendment, those are indications in and of themselves. again, they are uncovering every stone that they come across and it would only be natural, particularly given the amount of pressure that was put on the former vice president that he would be -- they would look to have a conversation with him, hoping to, you know, go towards his patriotic side and get him to share what he knows. >> i want to ask you about stephanie grisham's comments. she says a group of former trump officials are talking about

getting together to try to talk about ways or think about ways, strategize about ways to stop him from winning a second term. have you been approached by anyone involved with that group? and would you be interested in or do you think it doesn't make sense? >> well, look, i think it's premature to say that there is a formal group established or any structure in place. but, look, we are all fellow travelers here. we are a part of the last administration, and our gravely concerned with his continued influence over -- that's the former president, continued influence over the party. for me it's not just at the federal level here in d.c. because i do think we tend to live in a d.c. bubble, but i am -- and i talked to you about this before, but i'm gravely concerned of what's happening in state capitols. you see what some of the

secretary of state candidates that may be in a position to certify or not certify legitimate election outcomes in '24. that's got to be a part of the strategy as well. >> yeah, i mean, that is really extraordinary when you think about it because it's not something a lot of people pay attention to. people's eyes are glazed over when you start to get that granular and state level government. but it's incredibly important who is actually at the leverage, who organizing elections, you know, making decisions about what is true and what's not. >> i mean, think about it, right? brad raffensperger in georgia, had he not been in place in 2020 -- and he is getting primaried from his right by a current united states congressman. so i think we're in for a bumpy ride here. we can't lose focus and just concentrate on what's happening here in d.c. we have got to be looking across the country. you're right. people start to get exhausted. it's been going on for a while. unfortunately, there is a lot more room to run in front of us. >> good talking to you.

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