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. watch our cnn's full circle. news continues with brianna keilar. thank you so much. i am brianna keilar, this is "democracy in peril." a year ago this month we watched as the traditionally peaceful transfer of power was challenged. a sitting president and his associates orchestrated a coup. it revealed cracks and weaknesses. you sauce them. the people trying to exploit them also saw them and they took notes. on this program tonight and the night ahead we are putting those vulnerabilities under the microscope. we are looking at information

that's poisoning the wealth of the american experience. we'll go look through the looking glass to see how the big l lie is getting bigger. we'll see a math teacher uncovering how he claims the 2020 election was stolen. we'll talk to the people who held the line a year ago and helico continue to do so. we'll speak with fox's former digital politics who was fired after his involvement in a decision to call arizona for joe biden. a projection deflated any hope that trump's head qquarters tha he's about to win fair and square. krebs is one of three dozen former trump's officials who joined together in a planning

call to figure out how to -- a phone call reported by cnn's jake tapper. two communication directors, a former top adviser to vice president pence and chief of staff john kelly is also on that call. chris krebs is join us now. sir, thank you very much for being with us tonight. if you can tell us about this call and what the goal was here? >> i will tell you my perspective from participating in this phone call. for the last year or so, i think i have been local and i have been on cnn meant of times and other networks as well to talk about the danger that the former president trump still poses to democracy and the way he's closing in on the republican party not just at the federal l

level here in washington, d.c. what i am trying to do is identify those fellow travelers. those folks i used to work with in the last administration that have good ideas that have voices and influence that can work to ensure that we don't have a repeat of the trump's era. >> where do you start, i understand that looking at candidates, he's going to support in the midterm elections is one place. everybody got different views based on their theories and priorities. one of the areas i am interested in is at state officials. there are key elections up in georgia and arizona and nevada and else where is, where some of the front runners of the republican ticket are basically carrying the flag for trump. you talk about jodi heist in

georgia and in nevada. just like last time when we had raffensperger where he held the line, he placed the country over party that we may not have those folks with the same resolve and commitment to the constitution. and so those are the sorts of things i am interested in and looking for partnerships there. >> what happens if there is not a raffensperger rain place? what if there is no chris krebs, someone like you where people listen to you. what happens if those people right lane not in place? >> the dynamics will certainly be different at the federal level with the current administration in '24 at least. out there again across the country in the 50 states and those state capitols, it's a

valid question of what happens if you do have someone that's carrying the flag for trump and what are those legal avenues. i think one of the things congress should do now is take a hard look at updating the electoral count about and clarify who in fact the state authorities that would sign out those slate of electors. we don't have a situation where they sign one slate and another. that was a real threat and in 2020 and in 2024 is more of a significant risk. it's low-hapgnging fruit that ty can get on top of it now. >> do you think this administration is doing enough that they are concerned of the threats? >> you know if you look at the debate in congress or at least

the diagnoslogue and discourse congress, voting rights is the number one issue. they may take a long weekend because of the winter storm. it's certainly top of meind. the way they are hung up is the strategies and the process side. they got to work it out. you know i have talked to members of congress and both the house and the senate that they get the priority, majority on the democratic side. there is more that needs to be done here, we need to get past this. >> so you know we have already seen the big lie and the world that it played. how we are seeing how it's matas matasticizing. >> in arizona you are seeing big lie embracers trying to install themselves to oversee elections. how do you combat that?

>> you know you use an appropriate word. mas mastasize. this is beyond the former president. there are two separate realities basically, they're living in one and we are living in another. they think we are crazy just like we think they're crazy. but, i think going forward we have to have committed leadership in states capitols just like we did with governor doocey. we need more principles when they're in office and democrats do the same. there are bright spots across the country. kentucky is a good example, republican secretary of state workinging the state legislature

to cod ify some of the changes they made. that's an exception. we are not seeing enough of that. i would love to see more of that and i would like to see you know when you look at the gerrymandering and redistricting that's going on right now. i like what the ohio supreme court did. this is not plain and fair so we need to take a harder look how these lines are being drawn. >> you said we are living in one reality and they're living in a different reality. >> there are a lot of people living in that different reality. 73% of americans still think the election was stolen from trump. >> they'll just the 2024 election if the candidate they support loses. this seems to be the kconundrum

that no one can answer. >> the unfortunate answer here is no, there is no single solution. there is silver bullet. i used to hang my hope on the former president just coming clean and doing what was right and telling everyone that the election was legit but look at what happened when he told everyone that the vaccines work and he's been boosted. he's a pariah. >> that's the point of metacizing so far. it becomes this kind of colt-herd mentality. it's going to take a long-term effort to reensagegagereengage. i do think covid made this last grass root reality and these rabbit holes and qanon and other

wise. it made it that much worse because we lost that sense of community. people going to the kids' soccer game. hey, i heard jfk jr. is still alive. >> how do we get back to those circumstances where people think a little bit before we read it. >> the before times. we missed those, some of us. >> do you think things are better now or worse than a year ago? >> you know it's hard to say, i don't know if there is a whole lot of good metrics to quantitatively measure how severe the election related to and covid related and social media platforms continue to take action to enforce their terms of service. they continue to deplatform and folks that take advantage of the mechanism.

you saw the other day direct tv is not going to renew oam. that's something -- i cancelled their tv service because of their long-term of supporting aom. so we are seeing some gradual improvement out there. i think there is a really calcified harden base in the die hard base. it does not matter where you go. any sort of counter measure is viewed as the deep state or the establishment or whatever the global ga ball is out to get him. what we have to work on is chipping away of the edges of that harden base and see if there are folks that's still on defense and pull them back into reality and do it with a degree of empathy as best as we can. as hard as that is after the last couple of years. i gotten death threats and i

don't look liekindly on that. >> if we can bring folks back, one of the ways we have to get out was bringing rice back. >> they have victims in a way. chris, thank you very much for being with us tonight. chris krebs. >> briana, thank you. a teacher who's a lesson in disinformation. he's going around the country spreading the big lies and he tells cnn why he wants to help create a constitutional crisis and later we roll the tape on the dangerous relentless fiction about the insurrection being spewed from fox.

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lying you think of politicians and russia or iran, media figures, right? >> you would not put a math or science teacher at the top of your list. sarah murray brings us a surprising story of an ohio teacher who's traveling across the country and spreading election lies to big crowds. >> just about every county was hacked. >> reporter: this is how the big lie that the 2020 election was stolen gets even bigger. >> i am standing against a whole establishment that says oh, that was the cleanest election in history. >> reporter: that's douglas frank who travelers here to texas. claiming he uncovered an algorithm prooun the election wallace stolen. his findings can find land donald trump back in the the oval office. >> let's do a do every or let put trump back unto office.

>> frank's finding has been debunked and more than a year later, there is still no ed of fraud. election officials and voters across the country. >> we are going into each state and i meet privately with secretary of states and attorney general and jeans. >> he's one inspired by donald trump's election lies. trying to cons vince if others of the 2020 election was stolen. >> 5,000 people mailed him ballot point. >> you need to find out super mom. >> frank is embracing who he calls super mom. they're trying to uncover fraud and advocating for hand count only election. >> in colorado, we are a red state. >> there is no way that joe biden would legitimate won the state of pennsylvania.

>> can you stand your ground here in new hampshire. >> we need to have a real audit. >> if you don't know who i am, i am the guy that mr. lidell has discussed. >> so vice president, a deep pocketed per svictor claver. >> now you can help out and get a good night sleep. i am offering the lowest prices. >> with lydel support, picking me up to take me to meet the secretary of state. >> frank shares his claims. >> i was the perfect person in this world to discover this. i have had the exactly the same skills. >> that is simple.

>> frank's conclusion are nonsense. >> he's much better presenting himself as a professional even myself. >> he gets up and he talks about data. >> he looks at the data for 42 states and found the algorithm is worthless. >> you want to cover there is no basis for this. if you are not and someone spends all daf working on trikss and data . it sounds like he uncovered something. >> really impressive. >> frank cruises the number of registered voters by age group and prior voter trends to predict voters turn out and claims it's evidence of fraud. >> what he's doing is he's discovered anything you go out and measuring the world is closely related to himself. >> reporter: debunking linde'

el. >> frank claimed the coach was completely botched. and to others frank presentation confirmed their base sis that joe biden was not elected. >> we think kentucky bus be right. they just assumed and that kind of problem. >> adrian says she came away more convinced with 2020 with progress plagues. are we going to continue to trust the system? >> it was one of frank's stops on a nationwide tour. >> with the flier calling on county clerk to attend.

>> frank met with staffers for the state attorney general. here in texas. >> i am going to walk through these checks and balances again. >> if you need to change a period in the election programming, it sends up a red flag that the immediately will stop the entire process until we can identify what would have triggered that red flag. in harris county, officials expecting thousand of voting machines. >> six months out. we start checking out 13,000 pieces of voting equipment and harris county. do they turn on and have they been tampered with? >> that run accuracy test. and on election day, they track the number of people showing up to vote and the number of blasts cost. >> one of many safe guards that would catch an election inflated

by election voter. . >> breaking into multiple buildings and multiple systems. in -- as you have all eyes on elections. >> after french pitch, what does the media say? >> texas may return level. don't believe it. you are read. >> he sat down his interview with cnn. >> there will be a consequenceal crisis. it's going to happen, it's in efable. >> i am helping their happen. >> i know the elections are not real. i know the elections are being manipulated regardless of who

wins, i just want to it to be fair. >> and sarah is joining us right now. thank you very much for taking us through that. >> where are douglas' friend go. where trump victimly would have made a difference, is that where he headed? >> you know, you would think that but he has been all over. >> we were looking at his events. we tracked him at a dozens of states. places that. >> reporter: not in question when it came to who's going to win the 2020 elections. >> he and other folks are so committed to this. they want to spread it across the country, briana. >> it's important to note that it's all republicans are buying in to these claims. >> it's important know. we saw that push back from john

meryl, we know there are a number of other secretaries of states that have heard of these claim. they have come out public city. >> that seems comfortable and then they do checks on their own. >> i have talked to math pa serious condition and election experts. this always not go on. >> we know what the glow back looks like. >> if you come out and say there is no fraud in 2020 but there are checks and balances. >> yeah, good for those, folks, sarah murray, great report, thank you very much. joining us is al sharpton. >> we have of course must look at the sun around which so many

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we can't not talk about the mothership, fox. i don't call it news because

it's not news. it's lucrative breaking hundreds of millions of dollars for fox corp. as it shovels out stuff like that. >> all of the things that january 6th was, it was not a violent terror attack. >> let's not take the word of fox's, chief prop baganda on th. >> let's see what donald trump's pike. >> as you know january 6th was not an isolated event. >> the problem of domestic terrorism has been ma tazing for a long time now and not going any way any time soon. he explains in a why they amplifying the conspiracy theory that it was the fbi that ins gated this attack on the

capitol. some of the tree people sp participated on an 6 oert, had not been charge. >> what does it mean? >> every single case they were fbi operatives. >> the case that carlson is talking about goes back injun. it involved thomas --alleged operatives were most likely his wife. >> you would think carlson would know this after all he interviewed his friends. >> the kpin it, he pushes other conspiracy theory like antifa attack which is a fox's fr favorite. >> there were not trump supporters. >> some may have been sprinkled throughout the crowd.

>> there is always back at tos that'll infiltrate large crowds. >> you want to know how disengenerous comments are. ? >> those same most were texting trump's chief of staff during democrats trying to get him away from the crowd. >> that tells you something. >> one is saying it was not antifa at the capitol. carlson also likes to go full or well claiming the insurrection was not an insurrection. >> oh, it was an insurrection. how many participants in that insurrection has been charge -- >> cue the fox backup singer. >> no one has been charged with

sedition or da sidish. >> how many times words like appeared in jay's only indictment against the 6th rioters. >> tweets that don't age well for 200 please. because three hours later, the doj announced in an indictment charging 11 people with suspicious spshconspiracy. you can call it a war or a fight. wait for the sixth when we are all in d.c. to in signature re insurrection.

alleged insurrectionists have the handle on their troops. fox's own lawyer argued as much as a defamation suit. the judge quoting and apparently convincing argument. >> the general tenure. he in staed engaging in exaggeration and non little commentary. any reasonable viewer arriving with an appropriate amount of skepticism about the statement that tucker carlson makes. wish fall state. >> republicans get near political news from fox. far more than any other white swing cable channels. >> when ted cruz need the biggest audience possible to refer to january 6th, where does he go? >>. >> you call this a terror attack

by no definition, it's a terror attack. he told that lie is a purpose. the way i saw yesterday was slop phi pi and done. >> i know you for a long time, you were a supreme court contender. you take your words seeriously. >> every word you defeated that phrase. >> when fox needs to fill up its primetime primetime lineup, who did they install? >> this may be a lot of things of this moment we are living through. >> these protesters don't care about evidence and justice eastward. >> there was no remaining dut that kyle rittenhouse acted in self-defense.

>> actually, it's a clear cut of how to cultivate an echo chamber. >> water it and feed it until it fults. >> the onk thing that stops it is sunlight. ne next, what was fired after he helped boss making the right call. his insight on how to combat this information when democracy i "imperial" returns. why choose proven quality sleep from sleep number? because my sleep number 360 smart bed is temperature balancing so i stay cool.

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before the break, we talked about the ways that fox primetime promotes disinformation. now we are going to explore possible antidotes to that. it's worth noting the people at fox news at fox, i don't call it news who refused to push trump's falsehoods are leading the host far and right. former colleagues who lied to the viewers and know what they are doing is wrong. >> i except very well. i don't know how some people sleep at night because i know there were a lot of people who

had propagated the lies and push them forward over and over again. who are smart enough and educated enough to know better. >> there is also one williams. he was removed from his show there. two analysts in resigned tucker fill son and even former sunday host chris wallace quit the network after 18 years. >> he joins us for cnn plus. joining me now is former political editor when chris style wall k is with us, thank you for being here. >> happy tuesday. >> where do you think we are? >> looking at fox when it comes to disinformation. is it a better place or is it a

worse place than back in 2020. >> well, i don't know. i have been going to about a year since they fired me. >> i am in a better place so that's good. >> yes, what people have to bare in mind whether you are watching television news or consuming cbs morning news on in platforms is what's the profit model and how do people want you to receive this. >> what's the designer outcome for you and a problem that americans have today is people don't want to hear things, they don't want to hear. >> if you say something like joe biden is going to win arizona. >> if you say something that makes people upset. we got to get better at telling hard truth to people instead of prioritizing for efforts. >> some of your colleagues do

tell the hard truth and do report the truth. i know folks at moeks who were doing g-- >> i saw a lot of friends who are there. journalism is always hard if you are doing it right these guys, it's especially hard. there are certainly people who are still trying to do the right stuff zr trying to do a good thing and i wish them the best because people of goodwill. people revealed the constitution, people who love america and americans. they got to work together regardless of what network they are on. threats are too real and you got to treat them that way. >> this is such a difficult problem to solve for. >> you are talking about people, democrats or republicans who

need to work together. people on different sides of the political -- >> this does not seem to be a huge appetite for that or you have very few republicans who want to do that. what do you think? >>. >> patriotic grace, i love it so much. >> patriotic race is when you don't kick the other guy when he's down. >> right now the republicans have a problem with, i looked it up. a new suffix poll. 61% of republicans said they are concerned of the future of democracy. >> that's just cracker. that's a big problem for the republican party. it's a big party for democrats and a big problem for democrats. when i watched what president biden did in atlanta, devi sif and voting' rights. >> if you can't figure out a way

to put forward legislation. >> people voetted to convict donald trump. if you can't figure out a piece of legislation that'll remind people. you have got serious problems. >> that's the coalition that'll matter for the 2022 election and the 2024 election is bringing those together and conducting the election fairly and security and appropriately. >> we can all use a little more grace i will say. chris, thank you for being with us tonight. >> you bet. when we come back, a reality check with john avenue avenue lon on a notice taking power away from independence america. "democracy in in peril" continues next. oothpaste is going to be pronamel repair. woman: i have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now, there's skyrizi.

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john? >> hey, brie. it's important to remember that the political parties are far more divided than the american people as a whole, and a brand-new gallup poll gave us reason to focus on that. it showed the number of self-identified independents in our country far outweigh the number of republicans and democrats. that's an important reminder that the polarized politics we're given don't necessarily reflect who we are as a people. but here's the catch. the political parties are disproportionately dominated by the most ideologically extreme americans because they are the most active. they're showing up. and they're also showing up in having a disproportionate impact on your conversation on social media. pew research showing moderate voters are reluctant to voice their opinion on social media, and so the more extreme voices end up dominating that conversation.

and that has an incredibly divisive effect on our politics and it doesn't necessarily represent who we are. >> and so i know you've also noticed that there is this effort, this new effort to close open primaries where, you know, if you're a democrat, you can vote for whoever. the closing primary voting to only registered members of that party, democrat or republican, how does that add to polarization? >> this is key. we haven't been paying that much attention to this effort by trump supporters in individual states. there's been a lot of attention given to voter suppression bills, election subversion efforts. they are serious. they are real. but this effort in individual states to close open primaries, that's almost as dangerous and cynical because it's another attempt to depress majority rule democracy. what is an open rule primary? it states that independent voters can vote for the candidate of their choice, the one they like best, whether

they're running as a democrat or republican, which has the same calming effect on politics. the desire to close those primaries, is the desire to make sure the elections are less representative. in the last year alone, we saw efforts by trump supporters in states from louisiana to georgia to missouri to montana to utah to wyoming putting bills forward, most of which were knocked down. this has been tracked by a group called open primaries. but the effort is not over. there are renewed efforts in new hampshire, first in the nation in primary, independent state, and missouri again. so you see this effort that is under way right now, and it hasn't gotten a lot of attention, but it's part of this same effort to combat majoritarian democracy, to close our process, and to have our politics be hijacked by a comparatively small number of extremists. we need to build broad coalitions because we need representative elections have representative results, and

that's exactly what they don't want. but to really defend our democracy, one of the themes of what we're doing all week is we need to build broad coalitions of active, engaged citizens who show up from the sensible center beyond party label to defend our democracy, because that's what it's going to take. >> do you think there's an interest, are you seeing an active interest in that from moderate democrats and moderate republicans? >> you're starting to see it because at the end of the day shouldn't we all be single-issue voters when it comes to defending democracy? that's what it's based upon. but it does require people who might not normally want to get involved in the rough and tumble of politics to straighten their civic backbone and roll up their s sleeves and get 1r068ed, because that's what defending democracy requires. >> it's not partisan to want to believe that there's a truth that can be shared across the aisle. it's not partisan to believe in democracy. john avlon, thank you so much.

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tomorrow night here on "democracy in peril"" we'll look at the impact of restrictive voting laws in america. thank you so much for watching this evening. "don lemon tonight" starts right now. hi, don. >> fascinating last two blocks you had. i always liked chris stirewalt. and i like that now that he's not at fox that he can speak his mind even more. he's right about especially murdoch media in general, right, if you watch. and that translates into your last block because it finds its way onto social media with people pushing out the murdoch-backed or trump-backed media and, you know, stories that make no sense sometimes or have no relevance or, you know, no facts, not even really based on facts. they don't care about it and people pick up on that and they become the extremes on social

media, and that's what you heard and that's why i don't go on anymore. i have someone who does it for me because it's so toxic. >> it's a business model, right? it's lucrative. >> right. >> if you're going to just tell people what they want to hear, it just becomes this cycle and it pays off. that's why, you know, you'll see someone like tucker carlson on his backers will talk about his ratings are so high. in court, a federal judge said he's not to be believed. what's so interesting about that is that clearly people do believe him. fox knows that. they're actually using him as a model for other shows and other content. >> well, i think if it's still the same, their prime time is not fact based. it's all opinion based. even their morning show is under the entertainment umbrella, and i think it's just starting at 9:00 in the morning eastern time to their prime time that is supposedly fact-based journalism. you are right, there are some people doing good journalism there, but, you know, it's becoming harder and harder to