tv Don Lemon Tonight CNN January 27, 2022 8:00pm-9:00pm PST
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it's completely insane. those are the exact words outside the oval office trying to get the former president to call off the rioters. terrifying -- testifying to the january 6th committee for nearly seven hours and not pleading the fifth. a disgusting racist rant aimed at a black high school basketball player by another student. >> chain him up, chain him up. >> i'm going to speak to the basketball player and his parents just ahead. and a bomb cyclone, that's what it's called, a bomb cyclone, it's a powerful winter storm packing heavy snow and strong winds moving into the northeast this weekend. tens of millions of people in its path. we are tracking the storm for you. lots of news to get to, i want to bring in cnn's senior legal analyst, mr. elie honig.
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thanks for joining us. we appreciate you. let's talk about this former meadows top aide outside the oval office as the insurrection was unfolding, and remember, the committee released text exchange from jainuary 6th in a letter t ivanka trump. is someone getting to potus? he has to tell protesters to dissipate. someone is going to get killed. response from white house staff member, i've been trying for the last 30 minutes, literally stormed in outer oval to get him to put out the first one. it's completely insane. so we now know that that was -- in that text message exchange ben williamson responding to the former communications director, alyssa fara. he spent nearly seven hours with investigators and did not take the fifth. how good of a witness is hoe to the committee? how important is this? >> well, let's start with this, don.
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if this witness, ben williamson on january 6th said, quote, it's completely insane, that shows that he is actually quite sane, and maybe he was one of the very few people in the west wing at the time to notice that. look, this individual ben wil williamson could be a key witness. we know mark meadows is running from the committee. he's refusing to speak with them. he's been held in contempt, and we'll hear soon whether doj will prosecute him. the fact that a subject of the investigation is not willing to talk doesn't mean you have to gif up on that subject. what you should do is as a prosecutor, as an investigator is exactly what the committee is doing here. go to the people around him, go to the people who are willing to come forward, who saw things, who heard things. the fact that he was there testifying for six or seven hours, that was a lot of time for a prosecutor or investigator to spend with somebody. you don't spend that much time with somebody unless you think they have valuable information. >> six or seven hours a long time for this you think? >> yeah, i mean, you can get through an awful lot, don. you and i can get through a heck of a lot of material in three or
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four minutes. imagine how much you can get through in six or seven hours. i would want to know everything that happened on that day. i would want to know every conversation he had with mark meadow, even more importantly conversations he may not have been a part of, but he may have observed. things he saw mark meadows say on the phone. >> that's my next question. a source is telling cnn that the investigator spoke to williams about the prush to get trump to release a video telling rioters to leave the capitol. the select committee believes that trump recorded multiple takes writing information in the select committee's possession suggests that the president failed in the initial clip to ask rioters to leave the capitol. how important is this video in the investigation? >> can you imagine how bad the earlier versions were given the final version that we saw, which in itself was not even a decisive call for the rioters to leave? it was very much hedged and full of praise for the rioters. i mean, imagine what the cuts
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that they left out say. i think it's really important to see that because i think those initial cuts of the video will tell us, will tell the committee a lot about donald trump's true state of mind. how did he really regard bhwhat was going on? was he pleased, displeased? i think the proof will be in those videos. >> go home, we love you. i mean, as you said, that was bad enough. it has been weeks since the house voted to hold mark meadows in contempt. the supreme court denying trump's exec tifl privilege claim damages his defense and now his top aide is out speaking. how do you see this playing out for mark meadows? >> i'm at a little bit of loss on this one, don. it took doj about three weeks, about 21 days to decide that they were going to charge steve bannon with contempt, not that anyone's counting but we're now on day 45 of doj deciding whether it's going to charge mark meadows. now, look, mark meadows is definitely a more complicated
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case than steve bannon. last week we got this ruling from the supreme court that really gutted donald trump's executive privilege arguments, and it wasn't even based on donald trump being the former president. they just said even if he was the current president, his executive privilege claims lack so much merit that we can essentially throw them out here and now. there was some speculation maybe doj is waiting for that opinion. that was last week, that was a week and a half ago already so i'm not sure what they're waiting for and i hope we get a decision one way or another soon. >> elie honig, thank you, sir. i appreciate it. i want to turn now to cnn white house correspondent john harwood. good evening to you. president biden spoke to the ukrainian president zelensky for an hour, an hour and 20 minutes tonight, and it apparently didn't go so well. what are you hearing about that conversation, john? >> well, we're hearing different things from both sides, don. from the ukrainian side, there was an anonymous quote, a leak to our colleague matthew chance in which the ukrainian official
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said that president biden told president zelensky that an invasion was certain to happen when the ground freezes and that kyiv should brace for impact. the white house says that's absolutely not true, that president biden said there's a distinct possibility that russia will kcross the border and invade, but that is not a certainty. at his news conference last week, president predicted that that was likely. nevertheless, the president said he was not saying it was certain. but there was agreement between the two sides, president zelensky sent out a tweet, and in the statement the readout from the nsc both agreed that the united states was ready to provide additional economic assistance for ukraine. you know, there's a little bit of an unusual posture by ukraine right now. they're being menaced by 100,000 russian troops, but they're also trying to tamp it down to preserve confidence among their people, among investors, and so even as they braced to defend
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themselves with help from the west, they are -- they're trying to down play the immediate threat, and that makes for some tricky communications. >> i want to -- john, let's talk about the economy. i want to turn to the economy. there's a new report and it shows that the economy grew 5.7% in 2021. that is the best number since 1984. there are some caveats here like inflation. what do we need to know about these numbers? they are good. >> well, they're very good, and there's a lot good in this economy. the economy is coming back from the pandemic. to some extent the numbers are a little bit artificially inflated because of how far we fell last year, but then you also had the american rescue plan that president biden put in along with the c.a.r.e.s. act, the previous fiscal support for ordinary americans and for businesses, and what that did was generate a lot of demand, and that has put people back to work. it's a great time to find a job.
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people are getting raises. the flip said of that, of course, the downside is that the disruptions of the pandemic combined with this heightened demand has created a lot of inflation. so even as we get terrific growth numbers, terrific unemployment numbers under 4%, in terms ocf unemployment, you'e got a challenge with prices rising. it's workers at the bottom of the income scale are coming out ahead, but others are not, and the public's not going to feel great about this economy until that is tamped down. the good news is, though, economists expect that to happen later this year, and the more the pandemic gets under control, the better the economy's going to be. >> before you go, john, give us the latest on president biden's search for the next supreme court justice. when can we expect a pick? he said, you know, by the end of february, but are you hearing anything? >> well, look, i think it could come sooner than that because there do seem to be a couple of
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clear front runners, and i think number one on that list is ketanji brown jackson because she was already confirmed to the second highest court, the d.c. court of appeals just below the supreme court a few months ago. that means she's been vetted. she got all 50 democratic votes and three republican votes. that suggests a pretty short path to confirmation. there's also leandra krueger, the california supreme court justice. there's michelle childs from south carolina, who is a choice of jim clyburn, the democratic congressional leader. so there's a finite set of choices. one clear front runner, i think, ketanji brown jackson who the president's already met with. i think he could get this going fairly expeditiously. he's got a white house chief of staff ron klain, joe biden used to chair the judiciary chi. they know how to do this, and they've already gotten started. >> john harwood, thank you, sir, appreciate it. so here's a question for
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democrats, democrats should be asking themselves as a matter of fact. why aren't they dominating the political landscape in america in 2022? two decades ago the influential book the emerging democratic majority predicted they would due to demographic changes in the country, but now one of the co-authors says democrats have gotten the messaging of the book all wrong. a senior fellow at the center for american progress is here to talk about what's actually happened, and we're so glad ruy is here. thank you for joining us. >> good to be here. >> it was the book back then. you predicted that democrats would dominate american politics. one part of that equation was the shifting demographics in the country. what happened to your theory about the party? >> yeah, that's right. yeah, at that time we looked at the way the demographic terrain was changing in the united states with the rise of the non-white population and some
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other important changes in terms of the role of women and professionals, and we thought the democrats would not necessarily and automat sically dominate but rather they had a really good chance if they took advantage of these changes to form a, you know, potentially governing majority that might have some durability, but we did have some caveats even at the time, and i think that's important to point out, and i think that's one of the reasons why the democrats are in the trouble they're in today. one of those is that we always stipulated that there was a necessity for the democrats to retain a very significant portion of the white working class vote because while demographics were changing, they were still a huge voter group, particularly in very important states. and as we saw over the course of the 21st century, that didn't turn out to be the case, that they're able to keep their share of the white working class votes stable. >> you said that democrats are alienating the white working class. so what are they doing wrong?
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>> well, one thing they're doing wrong is that they are not able to project a sort of cultural outlook and an economic program that these voters find congenial. they feel that their communities have been left behind. they feel that elites on the coast don't pay much attention to them. they feel they're looked down upon, and i think this really got a little bit turbo charged with the trump election and thereafter when basically the take by most liberals in the democratic party was the only reason anyone could possibly ever vote for trump was that they were a racist or a ze xenophobe or probably both. that didn't go over well with these voters. they feel like they're being pushed away, laooked down upon, that was a problem, and it continued to be a problem in 2020, but the interesting thing that changed in 2020 is some of
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that attrition, some of those losses of working class voters spread to non-whites. we saw the democratic margin among black voters go down, the democratic margin among hispanics crater by about 16 margin points, which is a huge change all over the country, not just in texas and south florida. and it turns out that one -- another thing we didn't talk about in the emerging democratic majority, which turned out to be important, was that we targeted and talked about the rise of professional class of -- this is a growing group with a lot of political clout. they're moving to the democrats that should help them. it turned out over time the cultural attitudes of the professional class, particularly the younger members of the professional class started odom nate the democratic party and its views on a whole variety of issues. it turns out that hispanic working class people are not particularly for wont of a better word woke, they're
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culturally conservative, patriotic, they're mostly concerned about their families, their jobs, their communities and so on, and that wasn't the message they felt they were getting from the democrats in 2020, and one reason why they moved to trump. >> you can say that about black voters as well, because black voters are really important to democrats but mansomething that clear to youing and i've been saying for a long time, black voters aren't monolithic in their views, especially a lot of older black voters, they're more conservative. they're worried about crime, they don't want defund the police, and do you think that democrats have woken up to that yet? >> i guess i think it might be beginning to occur to them. i think they're still comforting themselves with the old nostrums that of course black people are going to vote for the democratic party nine to one, doesn't matter who they are, where they are, what age they are. i think that's incorrect. i think as you're pointing out, it's a diverse community with different views.
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they do vary by age, do vary by area of the country and so on, and a lot of them are -- you know, they're not that culturally liberal in a lot of ways. they really are more concerned about family, community, very concerned about crime in their communities as you just alluded to, and i think it's really sort of hard to overestimate the damage that was done by associating the democrats with slogans like defund the police. this did not go over well in black communities or hispanic communities, and i think they're still dealing with the fallout with that now. i think that's why eric adams could do so well in new york city saying that is not where we're coming from. we want your communities safe, and we don't think criminals belong in the street. >> i agree with you 100%, and i still hear activists and people on the far left saying defund the police, it's not so bad. and they have to explain it. listen, i understand what you're saying about a lot of those things, but if you're explaining, you're losing.
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thank you. >> so true. s >> thank you so much. it's a pleasure, thanks for coming on. crime on the rise all across the country putting police officers in danger. they're being attacked, even killed. how do we fix this? i'm going to ask my friend d.c. police officer michael fanone next. i use liberty mutual, they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. wooo, yeaa, woooooo and, by switching you could even save 665 dollars. hey tex, can someone else get a turn? yeah, hang on, i'm about to break my own record. yeah. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. ♪
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so tonight a houston -- a suspect in houston has been taken into custody for shooting three officers. he led police on a chase before barricading himself in a house. the mayor says the officers are in good spirits, and just moments ago police in milwaukee giving an update on an officer who was shot and wounded today after responding to a man sl
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slumped in his vehicle. and in new york, a wake held today at st. patrick's cathedral for 22-year-old officer jason rivera. officer rivera and officer wilbert mora both killed after a suspect opened fire on them in a harlem apartment. the incident part of a troubling trend of violence that is really raising concerns about what can be done to keep police and the communities they serve protected. so joining me now to discuss is cnn law enforcement analyst and former d.c. police officer michael fanone. mike, thanks for joining us. i know that you are attending the services for the officers here in new york, and we appreciate you being here to talk to us about this. >> i appreciate you having me on. >> we're going to talk about new york in just a minute, but let's talk about houston because i just talked about that, what happened there. it highlights the danger that police are in right now as there's more and more of a focus on crime and how it's rising. >> yeah, no, i mean
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unfortunately this is nothing new. these are the realities of the job. it's something that unfortunately i experience throughout my career, you know, like you said i'm up here in new york to attend officer rivera's services and to honor his sacrifice. i've probably been to 100 wakes and funerals in my career as a police officer. it's part of the job unfortunately. >> the funeral is tomorrow. why is it so important for you to be here? and by the way, he was responding to a domestic disturbance, which can be the most dangerous for officers. why was it important for you to be here? >> well, like i said, i came up here to pay my respects to officer rivera, but the reason i wanted to come on your show tonight was to draw attention to both his and officer mora's selfless sacrifice, and i think it's important for us as americans to take the time and
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reflect that there are men and women like officer rivera and officer mora who are willing to put on a badge and dedicate their lives to keeping our communities safe. i think nypd commissioner sewell, i heard her speak recently, and she summed it up perfectly when she said that these officers died doing exactly what we asked them to do. you don't have to understand that level of dedication, but it demands our respect and our gratitude, so i think, you know, we should be reflecting on that and asking ourselves how can we honor that sacrifice and what can we do to earn it? >> yeah, let's talk about the mayor, the new mayor of new york city eric adams taking a hard line against crime after the shootings that killed officer rivera and mora, saying he's
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going to revive the plain clothes unit that was disbanded in the summer of 2020. he's promising to avoid the mistakes of the past. you worked as a plain clothes officer in washington. tell us how it works, what the goals are, and what you think of this decision. >> yeah, i mean, first of all, i applaud the mayor for his decision. i mean, it shows that he's prioritizing public safety by providing the nypd with the resources they need to keep our community safe. but like you said, i was a member of a district vice unit. i worked plain clothes pretty much my entire career with the d.c. police, and there's nothing controversial about plain clothes police. in fact, the investigative techniques that those units employ are some of the most effective in taking violent criminals off the street. as long as those officers
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conduct themselves professionally and operate within the four corners of the law, i think that every police department needs to be embracing those type of units. >> do you think that -- look, new york is having a hell of a time when it comes to gun crime. do you think that can make a difference? >> absolutely. i mean, you see what happened as a direct result. in washington, d.c., we disbanded district plain clothes units back in 2015, and i thought it was stupid, and then as a result we saw a rise in crime. we saw open air drug markets like we had not seen in a decade. i mean, they had become kind of a thing of the past with the advent of the cellular phone, and we started seeing, you know, a return to that type of drug trafficking and other crimes that are associated with it.
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plain clothes policing is an absolute necessity to keeping communities safe. >> mike, thank you, sir. i appreciate you joining us. >> thank you. >> all right, see you soon. a high school basketball player was reviewing footage from his recent game when he heard this. >> chain him up. chain him up. >> those racist insults were -- chain him up, against makai brown going on for the entire game. you saw it there in the footage. there he is with his family. he's going to join us next. it goes on clear. no mess just soothing comfort. try new vicks vapostick.
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i want everyone to sit and please pay attention to this. tonight a school district in southern california is saying it has disciplined an orange county high school student for making racist remarks to a black basketball player from an opposing school during a game last week. here's what was said. >> chain him up, chain him up. >> you always say the wildest
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[ bleep ] bro. >> who let him out of the cage. >> so the target of those ugly remarks, makai brown. he joins me now along with his parents, sabrina little brown, and terrell brown. their attorneys are with them as well. i just want to make sure, terrell or terrell? >> it's ter-rell. i have both in my family. >> thank you for joining us. i really appreciate it. makai, i'm so sorry this happened. the morning after your game, it was at laguna hills high school, you were watching the game like you always do and you heard some awful things from the crowd. talk to me about that. >> yeah, i was just watching the game film after. i watched it, and i was -- every time i touched the ball or anything happened, it was just constant them saying something. i was shocked at first i like
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ran into my parents' room like look at this, but the more it settled in. it really isn't that surprising that it occurred. there's plenty of other accounts from other people, and it's not just orange county or california, it's all across the country with black athletes just in general, just society. it happens a lot. but there's a fine line between jokes or where it's just blatant racism. so i mean, it was a lot to take in. >> there's a difference between talking smack, right, saying get em, that sort of thing, you would expect that during any, you know, athletic event. mom, the student that made these comments has been discipline. it's so terrible to hear someone talk about your son like that, so what do you think -- what did you say to makai? >> he said can you believe it,
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and i said yes. and we were shocked. we were surprised but at the same time, we were not, and what do you say? we were speechless. we didn't really have a whole lot to say at that moment. but of course i said let's record this and send it to your coach and find out if -- who knows about this and what can be done. >> terrell, i understand that in addition to these racist attacks from the student, you had an issue with laguna hills basketball coach. can you talk about that? >> yeah, i mean, it was a typical basketball game. feel like it was a typical basketball game. i remember me and my wife walked in, it was kind of a hostile environment but sometimes that can be fun. but as the game went on, you
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start noticing makai, you know, they're getting really chippy with him, he's taking it like a man and continuing to play on. late in the third quarter, kid bumped him, gave him another chap shot. wheel he's pleading his case to the ref, the coach on the other team is what i consider antagonizing him, i wanted to get close enough to the coach and say hey, don't talk to my son, and at that point the assistant coach on the sideline looks at me, and he tells me to shut up, and he's like meet me outside, and i think like what any probably real father would do, i probably had some choice words for him, and they asked me to leave the game, which i politely obliged and left the game, and you know, the next morning we wake up and makai brings us the video, and i tell my wife you know what? we weren't reading the room wrong. everything that we felt while we were in there is validated by this video.
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i think they just have a culture problem. >> makai, do you think there's a culture problem? have you felt any issues? you're the only black player on the team, am i correct? >> yes, yes. i have felt that there's a culture problem. this wasn't the first time that there was an issue when we played there. it was last year there was another issue with apparently another parent was -- kept making some sort of remark towards me, and then even if you -- there's plenty of people talking to me telling me different accounts of, oh, when we went there this happened or when we played there, someone said this to me. even people at that school were saying that there's issues within the administration of our programs, so i'm not really surprised too much, and i do think it is -- there's a culture issue at the school. >> yeah. well, listen, i want to thank you guys for joining us, and please keep us updated on what happens. we really appreciate it. thank you. you be well, don't let it get to
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you, makai, make your haters your motivators. >> yes, sir, will do. >> thank you. and then send me that shirt, i like it. that is the cleanest, starchest shirt i've ever seen, so you guys take care of yourself, i'm sorry this happened to you. the superintendent for the school district released a statement acknowledging that the racist rants were from a laguna high school -- a person from laguna high school, the language and connotations experez r pressed by the words used do not represent the culture, attitude or feelings of the students or staff of laguna hills high school nor those of saddleback unified school district. laguna hills high school is taking action. our thanks to that family, the brown family, and we will be right back.
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and it's only available to comcast business internet customers. so boost your bottom line by switching today. comcast business: powering possibilities. the end of the pandemic may be in sight, but the battle over masks in schools continues. parents, school officials, local and state leaders still fighting over whether or not kids should keep masks on in class. joining me now dr. megan rainy, the professor of emergency medicine at brown university, and joe allen, the director of the healthy buildings program at harvard university and the author of "healthy buildings." hello, good to see both of you. dr. rainey, i'm going to start with you, dr. fauci speaking to cnn earlier tonight.
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listen. >> in general i'm cautiously optimistic that things are going in the right direction. we've seen that happen in south africa, in the uk, and we're seeing it now in several cities in the united states. >> so he told anderson that we should still stick with the preventative guidelines most of us have been following, but if this pandemic finally gets under control, when do you see masks coming off, doctor? >> so i am quite hopeful that for those of us in the northeast where we're already starting to see omicron cases drop, hospitalizations stabilize, that within a month or two, we are going to be in a much better space, and are going to start being able to talk about taking masks off in public indoor locations including potentially in schools, now that our 5 to 11-year-olds, as well as our 12 to 17-year-olds have been vaccinated. but don, here's the thing, right now we are still utterly in the midst of this surge.
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i invite anyone to come to my emergency department or to my hospital to understand the continued impact of omicron on our health care system and on our most vulnerable citizens right now. this is not the moment to be talking about removing masks. a month or two from now, absolutely. >> you know, joe, as the doctor indicated cases are moving -- or you know, actually trending down in large cities, in a large number of states i should say, and here in new york as well. look at all that green on the map, though. what's the best criteria for schools to decide whether or not to keep masks on? >> yeah, so thanks for having me on. she wrote a great piece on all the work, her and her colleagues are doing in the emergency rooms. thanks to all the health care workers out there. i look at it are from a risk based perspective, and the two biggest determinants of risk, age and vaccination status. if you look at an unvaccinated teenage, the risk is 1 out of 100,000, they should absolutely get vaccinated, when they do,
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the risk comes down for hospitalizations about 1 in a million. vaccinated adult recent data shows it's about 1 in 100,000 risk if they're vaccinated and boosted. everyone should do that. at least in the northeast, we're in the back end of this omicron surge, health care systems still feeling it, certainly but it's reasonable, i think that for people who are vaccinated, boosted, doing everything right, their kids are vaccinated to start to ask, what else do i need to do? i've done what i can. my risk is actually quite low. i think as we turn this corner a way to start framing this is to talk about the power of one way masking. if you're vaccinated and boosted you're very well protected from severe disease and death. if that's not enough protection, wear one of these high grade masks. that reduces your risk even further. if you're unvaccinated, your risk is extraordinarily high. you're the one who should absolutely be getting vaccinated, wearing a mask, but it's hard to get people who aren't going to save a life to take a life saving vaccine to
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wear that high grade mask. >> the head of one of the largest school systems says he doesn't see an end to mask requirement in the classroom anytime soon. parents in some florida and virginia districts are fighting to keep mask mandates in place despite blocks by gop governors. are you worried that masking may continue for longer than it has to? is that an issue? >> one of my really big worries is about equity issues and learning losses in kids, and so many of us have been talking for almost two years now about the importance of getting kids back to school. there has been study after study showing when you have universal mask mandates in school, there are fewer kids and fewer teachers who catch covid in the school setting. just today there was another study coming out showing that child care facilities that have universal masking have lower rates of closure of those child care facilities. so particularly in districts with low rates of vaccination,
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we know that only about 25% of that younger age group have gotten their shot, having universal mask mandates in place helps keep kids in school. whether or not the kids would end up hospitalized, it achieves that goal of avoiding learning loss. protecting their mental health, and keeping them where they belong, which is within the walls of that school during the school year. >> thank you, appreciate it. more than 42 million americans under a winter storm watch tonight, a bomb cyclone expected to drop heavy snow across the northeast. we've got a live report, weather report just ahead for you. >> vo: so when my windshield broke... i found the experts at safelite autoglass. they have exclusive technology and service i can trust. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪
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tonight, more than 42 million people in the northeast are under a winter-storm watch, as a powerful nor'easter could bring heavy snow and strong winds starting tomorrow night. it's known as a bomb cyclone. let's check in now with our meteorologist derek van dam. derek, good evening to you. a bomb cyclone. we go through it every time. what's -- what is it? what are the conditions? and what could it bring to the northeast this weekend? >> yeah. i -- i asked my producer, rob, said what is a good comparison for a bomb cyclone this time of year and he said what about a winter hurricane? i said you are on to something there. that is a great apples to apples comparison. of course, completely different outcomes because it's winter time and we expect snow to form with these powerful low pressures but a bomb cyclone, basically deepening low pressure
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off the coastal portions of the u.s., and it meets a certain criteria and this person one will bring hurricane-force gusts to the coastline. we have winter-storm watches dotting the landscape, specifically along the coast, you can see that from new england right through the coastal areas of the carolinas. and all of our computer models coming into agreement that this storm is going to pack quite the punch, specifically for places like boston, into providence. new york city. now, some of our computer models indicating you could pick up that 8 to 12 inches of snow. but really, the sweet spot looking at you, providence, to boston, this is an area where some of our computer models pick up on over 2 feet of snow in some locations. of course, this is a game of miles. too close to the coast, we bring in more. it changes over to rain. if it is too far off the coast, we don't get snow at all. if in that sweet spot, that bench we look for as meteorologists, that will line things up to see that nor'easter but snowfall totals to the new
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good evening. we begin tonight with a warning about the state of democracy. it comes from retiring supreme court justice stephen breyer. and though he spoke today at the white house with the warmth and gentle humor for which he is known, his message was unmistakable. american democracy cannot be taken for granted. it is not self-sustaining. >> i will tell you what lincoln thought, what washington thought, and what people today still think. it's an experiment. it's an experiment. that's wha
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