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reminder, don't miss "full circle," our digital news show that gives us a chance to dig into important topics. and have in-depth conversations. you can catch it streaming live at 6:00 p.m. eastern on mondays, wednesdays, and fridays. at cnn.com/fulp circle. watch it on the cnn app or at any time on demand. news continues with "democracy in peril." jim? >> anderson, thank you very much. i'm jim acosta, and this is "democracy in peril." tonight we are going on offense against the lies. and when you think about the poisonous lies undermining our democracy, trump probably first comes to mind, or social media outlets like facebook or twitter. and of course the manure spreaders like fox, news max or oan. you're going to hear tonight from a former fox on what tucker carlson has been pulling lately, sounding like a mouthpiece for the russians at the bolshevik factory, as we described it last night. another carlson, gretchen carlson, no relation, will take us on down the fox rabbit hole.

she left fox in 2016, two weeks before candidate trump accepted the republican nomination. but what largely escapes similar scrutiny and condemn nation for fanning the flames of the insurrection and providing the fuel for the next bonfire of insanities is the podcast ecosystem. a really eye-popping recent study by the brookings institution analyzed how podcasts pushed misinformation about voter fraud before and after the election and specifically between the election and january 6th, 2021. researchers reviewed 1,500 episodes from 20 of the most popular political podcasts and found that bogus allegations of election fraud rose dramatically in the run-up to the insurrection, with more than 50% of all episodes devoted to the big lie. here's a flavor from that moment in time. >> we have evidence of ballots being brought in in the middle of the night that look like they were just written off, come in

and trash cans, paper bags, car board boxes. >> mike pence does not have to accept the results of polluted and poisoned electors. >> if they steal this election, they have basically thwarted the will of the people. the deplorables understand what you're trying to do here. you're trying to steal it. not going to be stolen. and all i can say is strap in. the war room a posse, you have made this happen. tomorrow it's game day. tomorrow it's going to happen. strap in. let's get ready. >> there are issues of mail-in ballots that are not being tallied accurately, coming in after the election, as well as being totally invalidated because they weren't signed by some kind of witness. we also have the issue of plenty of dead people voting. we also have the issues of computer glitches that we already know to the tune of thousands. >> those were some of the worst offenders, but tragically there are tons more. brookings did a tally of podcast episodes spreading election lies from a few months before the

election to the insurrection itself, and steve bannon's war room, surprise, takes the top prize for amplifying trump's bs the most. second in line was rush limbaugh. close behind sean hannity and glen beck. mark levine, dan bongino, michael knowles, and ben shapiro. it's like the mount rushmore of misinformation there. but ben truly is in a league of his own. >> all hell is going to break loose tomorrow. just understand this. all hell is going to break loose tomorrow. >> who knows if bennet will ever pay a price for that. he's certainly not going to give you the shirts off his back. but seriously there should be some corporate responsibility in this. hello, apple. you can find bannon's war room show on apple's podcast, even the ones right before the insurrection. and you can find many of the other hosts on apple podcasts too. is removing disinformation something apple and other platforms should consider.

ceo tim cook said publicly on the day of the attack, those responsible should be held to account. so what about people like bannon? there were some social media companies that cracked down on trump for his dangerous lies, like facebook and twitter. trump's twitter account is permanently gone. and aren't we all the better for it? it's not like we miss him tweeting about "celebrity apprentice." and youtube is removing bannon's channel altogether after january 8th after the attack for violating their terms of service. let's turn to someone with a podcast himself, scott galloway, host of the profit g pod and professor of marketing at nyu stern school of business. he is also a host on the upcoming cnn+. scott, great to see you. it seems like, you know, podcasts are an ideal tool for misinformation, and it's been happening under the radar i think for millions of americans. obviously a lot of people tune in. but i think a lot of people did

not realize all of this was going on. why do you suppose that's the case? and what do you think can be done about it? >> good to be with you, jim. yeah, it's podcasts. i don't think people realize the impact podcasts are having. it's one of the few mediums that's growing. 40% of americans say they've listened to a podcast in the last 30 days. in addition, there's something -- it's a kind of an intimate relationship when you're listening to someone and have air pods in your ears. they're very influential. i would argue, though, it's more like traditional media. generally speaking they're on algorithms trying to enrage people by forwarding you certain podcasts. so, and also i would argue that, jim, we're about to see more guardrails put in place, whether it's legal liability, whether advertisers, or as we saw with neil young, artists withdrawing. i think these platforms that distribute podcasts are probably more vulnerable than facebook or google.

if an advertiser or artist leaves, they just don't feel it. i think this is more like traditional media. but if more shoes drops, if more artists leave platforms or advertisers that are much more concentrated across these platforms speak up, i think you'll start to see more and more attention paid to this misinformation being spread on this kind of emerging medium, if you will. >> and what about steve bannon and his podcast? i mean, he's still running this podcast, despite being under indictment for contempt of congress, refusing to comply with that subpoena and the january 6th investigation. but you could go on your apple podcast app, and there he is right there. i mean, why doesn't apple do something about that? >> yeah, so, to be clear, i don't like it when big tech wraps themselves in a first amendment blanket, because the first amendment says the government is not supposed to pass any laws that prohibit free speech. and these organizations have no real obligation to the first amendment.

they have an obligation to their shareholders, and they consistently opted for those interests over the interests of the commonwealth. i do think, however, jim, that it's somewhat dangerous territory to begin going after people for what's perceived as political views. now, if you were able to reverse engineer death or injury from the insurrection to a specific call to action, i would argue there's some liability there. and we saw -- you mentioned another cable news network. they went on air and apologized to a company that owned voting machines because they incorrectly spread information, misinformation, around those machines being weaponized, whereas that same misinformation on facebook or google could not -- was harmless to them because of section 230. but i don't think -- i think you can try and hold these platforms accountable or threaten to cancel your subscription, or an artist can say they're coming off of them. but i think people are somewhat wary to go after people for their political views. >> sure.

no question about it. i do think there's a -- there's maybe a distinction between political views and what steve bannon was doing right before the insurrection, saying all hell is going to break loose. strap in. i mean, he was -- he was really instigating people there. but let me ask you about this. as for the role of the platforms, here's what spotify's ceo told axios last year about why he doesn't feel like they have a responsibility for what is said by podcasters. >> we have a lot of really well-paid rappers on spotify 2 that make tens of millions of dollars if not more each year from spotify, and we don't dictate what they're putting in their songs either. >> what's the difference between, say, in rap lyrics or a podcaster pushing election lies? do you buy that excuse there from the ceo? >> i think there's a link there where i think that argument falls flat or deflates, jim, is that any content a rapper is

putting out or even strongly held extremist political views don't -- shouldn't be conflated with junk science that's spread and results in our icus being overrun. so i do think americans and the courts correctly afford special protections or fidelity to medical information or the spread of junk science, as we're seeing with joe rogan. i would argue, look, if you can reverse engineer some of steve bannon's comments to injury from an insurrection, that's one thing. and that obviously the courts would have to figure that out. what i think that spotify will come under pressure for is when 270 doctors say that this is a real -- that joe rogan is a menace and we have 850,000 dead americans. more americans have died from covid than all combat fatalities combined in all of our conflicts. even section 230 has carveouts for sex trafficking, for ip violation. and i think it's just a

different ball game when you start talking about junk science as it relates to medical -- medical topics. >> yeah. >> so, i think they might have -- they might have poked the wrong bear here. we'll see if other shoes drop, if you will. >> so, does that mean that neil young could use some help in all of this? i mean, you know, if some other big name artists were to step in and, you know, hop on the band wagon, so to speak. >> well, that's exactly right, jim. this was an economic decision. joe rogan is the biggest artist in the world in a medium, podcasting. neil young is not. and so this was probably a fairly easy decision for them. now, if taylor swift or drake decide they want off the platform, they might find religion around junk science as it relates to covid-19. >> and what worries you the most right now when you just look at, you know, the entire spectrum of disinformation that we see out there? is it podcasts?

is it places like fox? is it all of that taken together? >> i think it's a few things. i think our discourse has become incredibly course. i think there are algorithms on facebook and google that will recommend extreme dieting sites to a 5'10" 100-pound 15-year-old or suggest a white supremacist site to a young man who is searching. i worry these organizations have become so bullet proof and have overrun washington that their ability to show no regard for reckless abandon for the health of the commonwealth, weaponize elections, depress our teens, that the algorithm of deterrence isn't in place here. they are immune from the same standards we've held other companies to. for some reason we've granted these companies the mother of all hall passes. and anyone who is struggling with a daughter with an eating disorder and then finds out these extreme dieting sites have been suggested to her by the

algorithm, that takes it to a whole new level. my fear is we don't hold these to the same standards we hold other companies. >> absolutely. all right. scott galloway giving us a lot to think about. thank you very much. looking forward to your show on cnn plus as well. good to see you. next our spotlight turns to georgia. state is res investigating trump's attempted coup, but the big lie is still as toxic as ever. special report next. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

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state. >> reporter: in georgia, donald trump hand picked a slate of election deniers to challenge republicans who refused to overturn the 2020 election. >> jodi is running against one of the worst secretary of states in america, rino brad raffensperger. >> planned a vigil to pray for the january 6th, quote, patriots. and state lawmakers are already proposing new legislation that some say will make it harder to vote in upcoming elections. that's a snapshot of georgia gop, a year after the state lost the senate seats. >> it's raining change in georgia. >> reporter: and 14 months after democrats flipped georgia blue in a presidential race for the first time in nearly 30 years. >> you change the state by bringing more people legally to the polls. >> reporter: a political smackdown like that might have come with a reckoning for republicans, an acknowledgment that lying about the 2020 election being stolen wasn't great for gop turnout.

>> i think it's a mistake to rehash the 2020 election again. it's over. it's done. we lost. >> reporter: instead, much of the party remains tightly bound to trump. republicans here are crafting campaigns around fears about widespread voter fraud that didn't exist, and pushing policies to chip away at voting access that expanded during the pandemic. in cobb county, republican party chairwoman sally grubbs has questions about whether trump actually lost georgia, a defeat confirmed by three separate counts of ballot, and those questions still linger ahead of the gop primary. >> do i trust the process? that's a hard question. i trust the -- the election process. do i think that there are improvements that still need to be made? yes, i do. >> reporter: deeply held doubts about a fairly decided election fueled an insurrection on january 6.

and while grubbs condemns the violence that day -- >> the people who participated in a violent way, i do think there needs to be justice for that. >> reporter: she also defended the vigil scheduled for january 6th this year, that was cancelled amid backlash. >> it wasn't to glorify what happened on january 6th. the only thing i can change is the messaging because my heart is still in the right place. i want justice to be done for the people who are held. >> reporter: now she's pouring hours into fighting for gop victories in 2022. >> we can't stay in 2020. we do have to move forward. but we take what we learned in 2020 and take that with us to prepare. >> reporter: but after cobb county censured republican brian kemp last year -- >> i think it sends a message we want to follow whoever donald trump wants us to follow. >> reporter: -- quit the party leadership committee in protest isn't sure grubbs can reunite republicans if a candidate who hasn't been endorsed by trump wins the primary.

>> by sensors the cobb gop has made it very hard to go with a straight face and say we now support brian kemp 110% because he is our nominee. >> reporter: uniting the party may prove challenging across the state. for many gop candidates here, the 2022 message is largely about 2020. >> today we're divided and brian kemp and brad raffensperger are to blame. >> reporter: trump convinced david perdue to embrace the election lies who certified the elect in the face of trump's fury. and the former president is backing election denier and congressman jody hice. heist makes absurd claims like this one. >> i'm convinced, quite frankly, if martin luther king were alive today he would be on the side of the republicans on this issue. voter integrity matters. >> hice is challenging republican brad raffensperger for secretary of state. after ralphs persian gulf

raffensperger famously claimed -- saxby chambliss emphasizes with voters swayed by the election lies but says it's time to move on. >> realistically it's done and it's over. >> otherwise he fears a replay of senate runoffs when republicans stayed home. >> if i were on the ballot in 2022, i would not relitigate 2020 election issues. the republican party still stands for the basic principles of smaller government, more freedoms of individuals and lower taxes. that's what they ought to be talking about. >> reporter: he says there's simply no evidence to support the ongoing doubts about the election. >> when you looked at the facts on the ground, then there was just no -- no facts to substantiate it. >> reporter: and doesn't want to see efforts to undermine election results become the norm. >> everybody ought to be able to

vote, and their vote ought to be counted if they are a valid voter. on election night, we want to figure out who won and who lost and let's move on. >> reporter: voting rights advocate helen butler has her own concerns about 2022, mainly that republicans are exerting more control over elections and making it harder to vote. >> my home county and morgan county -- >> reporter: she's among the black democrats booted from boards after the republican led legislature paved the way for six counties to overhaul them. the shift gave local republicans more power to name nearly all new board members require than the prior practice of divvying up appointments by political party. >> if you're unhappy with the outcome of an election, this is a way that you can have total control of a process. >> reporter: the move comes on top of republicans passing a restrictive new voting law that imposes new voter identification

requirements for absentee ballots, limits the use and number of ballot drop boxes, empowers state officials to take over election boards, and makes it a crime to give voters waiting in line food and water. butler says she'll make sure voters are aware of the changes. >> we're going to tell them, if you need to bring water, if you need to bring snacks, do it. come prepared. we're going to ensure people are able to exercise the right to vote. >> reporter: but even she is eyeing the midterms skeptically. >> they're trying to make life more difficult for the election officials and the voters. so in terms of midterm elections outcome, we will be watching. >> and sara marie joins me now. sara, how are georgia dems trying to counter what the republicans are doing there? i hope it's more than cookies and water. >> it is more than cookies and water. you know, look, they're making an effort that is essentially doomed to fail. but they're making an effort to

try to repeal that new georgia law in the state legislature. we've also heard a lot from democrats in the state saying they want to hear the federal government act in favor of a voting rights bill. the other reality on the ground is this is a weapon in democrats' arsenal ahead of 2022. they're facing national head winds like joe biden's sinking approval rating, so they're going to use this rhetoric from republicans to paint the entire republican party as sort of the anti-democracy party. >> and perhaps hope that some republicans stay home because they still don't trust the process, which is what we saw the last time around. all right, sara murray, thank you very much. great report. thanks as always. we appreciate it. >> thank you. "democracy in peril" continues. ahead, with the gridlock in washington, the upcoming battle over the opening on the supreme court. and a key question democrats need to ask themselves. wwmd? hold on for that next.

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perhaps it was this biting headline from the onion that crystallized where we are as a country when it comes to the supreme court. mitch mcconnell blocks justice stephen breyer from retiring. no, and i'm betting his staffers checked on this. mcconnell cannot do that. but it's no secret democrats have been begging breyer to give up his seat on the high court, essentially in a panic that

mcconnell would block another democratic president from celebing a justice. conservatives had a 6-3 majority on the court, and it will stay that way even after breyer is replaced, which is a remarkable turn of events considering this. democrats have won the popular vote in seven out of the last eight presidential elections. of course we have the electoral college system, which is how trump, who lost the popular vote in 2016, got three picks on the supreme court. now, a hard right supreme court appears poised to turn back the clock to the 1970s. it's like americans voted for "the west wing" and instead got "that '70s show." this has created the scenario where the minority views on major hot button issues could carry the day for a generation. and that brings me something justice sonia sotomayor warned last year, that overturning roe vs. wade would create a stench in washington. >> will this institution survive

that the stej that this creates in the public perception that the constitution and its reading are just political acts? i -- i don't see how it is possible. >> sotomayor -- sonia sotomayor is warning that the credibility of the supreme court is on the line, arguing the most important reason why abortion rights are in jeopardy is because the composition of the court has changed, not the merits of the case. just listen to how the court's conservative justices have been weighing the case that could topple roe, mississippi's restrictive abortion law. >> if it really is an issue of choice, why is 15 weeks not enough time? >> the fetus has an interest in having a life, and that doesn't change, does it?

from the point before viability to the point after viability? >> the reason this issue is hard is that you can't accommodate both interests. you have to pick. that's the fundamental problem. >> that last voice you heard, brett kavanaugh, a trump-appointed justice, sounded inclined to uphold mississippi's 15-week ban. but back when he was being confirmed, he emphasized the importance of precedent. >> what would you say your position today is on a woman's right to choose? >> as a judge -- >> as a judge. >> as a judge, it is an important precedent of the supreme court. by it, i mean roe v. wade and planned parenthood versus casey, been reaffirmed many times. casey is precedent on precedent, which in itself is an important factor. >> our system appears to encourage nominees to the supreme court to mislead the

public about their views, which brings us back to mitch mcconnell, who has been plotting, as we know, a dominant conservative majority on the supreme court for years. after justice antonin scalia died in 2016, mcconnell blocked barack obama's pick, merrick garland, by denying him any senate hearings. mcconnell said, it just wouldn't be right to put garland on the high court during an election year. >> we're in the process of picking a president. and that new president ought to make this appointment, which will affect the supreme court maybe for the next quarter of a century. >> then in 2020 justice ruth bader ginsburg died less than two months before the election. according to pbs, mcconnell called trump the night ginsburg died, urging him to quickly select amy coney barrett. >> mcconnell told him two things. he said, first, i'm going to put out a statement that says we're

going to fill the vacancy. second, he said, you've got to nominate amy coney barrett. >> less than a year later, get this, justice barrett actually appeared at an event at the mcconnell center at the university of louisville. she told the crowd this. my goal today is to convince you that this court is not comprised of a bunch of partisan hacks. now, where would anybody get an idea like that. the polls show a majority of americans oppose overturning roe vs. wade. opponents of roe have become the dogs who have caught the car, or the get away car, depending on your point of view. i suppose democrats can just say life's a mitch, which is why it's a mystery to me that some democrats are clinging to the filibuster, the same kind of filibuster that is preventing passing in the senate, from gun laws to abortion rights to

protecting this democracy with voting rights legislation. and yet the senate no longer requires overcoming a filibuster for justices. it's easier to pack the court than pass laws. consider the ages of trump supreme court justices. brett kavanaugh is 56. neil gorsuch is 54. amy coney barrett is 49 years old. president biden is likely to choose a young justice as well. is that what the founders intended, an arms race between both parties over who can pick the youngest justices for the high court. is this a pillar of our democracy or fantasy football? after they get their new justice, democrats might want to take a second look at the filibuster and ask themselves what's more important. is the filibuster more important than election rights and women's rights? democrats could just ask themselves, what would mitch do? mcconnell has insisted he's against scrapping the filibuster. but what happens if the republicans are back in power? and if the filibuster does live

on, mcconnell gets his judges. what do democrats get? i'll tell you. more of the same. i guess they can keep on telling themselves life's a mitch. the most watched host of fox news has been spreading dangerous conspiracy theories about january 6th and now can't understand why the u.s. doesn't side with the kremlin. his bosses, the murdochs must own what comes out of tucker carlson's mouth. when we come back we're going to talk to a former fox host about the impact on our democracy. gretchen carlson is here, and she joins us next. there can be some not-so-pretty stuff going on inside. it's true, with diabetic retinopathy, excess sugar can damage blood vessels, causing vision loss or even blindness. so, remember this: now is the time to get your eyes checked. eye care is important to your long-term diabetes management. see a path forward with actions and treatments

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it's no secret donald trump and the far right media continue to operate as one big machine, continuously pushing out false narratives, conspiracy theories, and the big lie, all the while ignoring its impact on our democracy and descent into further chaos and peril. so, what can the real news media do to dispel this information? for that i want to bring in former fox news anchor gretchen carlson.

gretchen, it's great to see you. appreciate that so much. let's listen to what has been coming out of fox lately as tensions between ukraine and russia escalate. let's listen to tucker carlson. >> why would we take ukraine's side and not russia's side. sincere question. if you're looking from the american perspective -- why? who's got the energy reserves? who's the major player in world affairs? who's the potential counterbalance against china, which is the actual threat? why would we take ukraine's side? why would we have russia's side? i'm totally confused. >> well, clearly. ukraine is a democracy. russia is an authoritarian regime that is seeking to impose its will on a validly elected democracy in ukraine. we're on the side of democracy. >> yeah, i guess i'm on the side of democracy in other countries, i guess. >> gretchen, an axios report highlights how republicans are parroting tucker carlson's pro-russian stance. why do you think tucker does this? and why do the murdochs allow

it? do they not even care, or is it just about money and ratings do you think? >> ratings i think first and foremost. but this is the result of fake news. we're seeing not only the fallout from fake news during the trump era but what happened with the insurrection on january 6th. now it's moving into other areas, not just news. now it's hitting science with vaccines. and now it's into cold war politics. i mean, the idea that we would be talking about whether or not we should support ukraine or russia, there wouldn't be a republican on the planet that five years ago would have said they would have supported russia over ukraine. but this is where we are now. conservative television news is certainly not the conservative news that was out there even just five years ago. >> yeah. it's stunning. and since the insurrection, you mentioned that we've learned some big names over at fox were acting almost as advisers to trump like sean hannity and laura ingraham. and then their texts came out where, you know, it sort of suggests they knew there was a problem inside the trump white house and that problem being the president at the time.

you worked at fox. does this surprise you that fox anchors would be advising a president, advising a white house? >> not necessarily. i'm not sure that it doesn't happen on the other side as well, depending on who happens to be in the office. but i think the bigger story coming out of that is how disingenuous it was to be sending those texts of warning while then going on the air to the american people and doing a complete injustice and disservice by saying something completely opposite and ginning up this whole reaction that it was just fine and patriotic for people to be there on january 6th. you know, slowly but surely this has morphed into eradicating any other point of view since the trump era that is not just opinion. it's gone from an opinion, which was fine, to completely devolving into nonfact-based conspiracy theories and outright dangerous rhetoric, in my mind. and i think it's a complete

disservice to our country. >> totally. and there have been these bizarre moments where we've seen top republicans like senator ted cruz groveling on tucker carlson's show. did you ever think that day would come? >> no. i think this is very upsetting to republicans also to be quite honest. i mean, i wish more of them would have the courage to do what i did, quite honestly, and then come forward and take on a behemoth. but, listen, for the safety of the republican party and for our democracy, i wish more would because this is not going to end well in my mind. it's really hard to change people's opinions because they're only watching what they want to hear. you know? and that's the other problem that we have in society with the media right now is that we're so siloed into only watching what we agree with. so, every day, that thought process just gets reinforced time after time. i mean, there are some people, jim, who actually when i'm walking through the airport still think that i work at fox

news. >> wow. >> because -- yeah. because they watch only fox news and they never covered my story there, obviously. and so, you know, that's what they see and what they hear. now, that works on the other side too. there's probably people that only watch other networks that have another point of view. >> true, true. >> but i think it's incredibly dangerous to have -- a big difference between having a conservative opinion and having one that supports conspiracy theories. >> totally. and despite your concerns about your democracy, you are trying to utilize our democracy to make change. wednesday there's going to be a house vote on your bill, what you said will be one of the biggest accomplishments in your life. do you have the votes? and tell us about it. >> well, thank you so much for asking about it. this has been my personal passion over the last five years since i did "soup box news." and roger ailes for harassment. i'm trying to get rid of the silence mechanisms, mainly forced arbitration for assault

itself that keeps these issues silent in the workplace. it's strange bedfellow, jim. i know you'll love this. the co-sponsors in the senate are lindsey graham and senator kyrsten sinema. it may be one of the few things they agree on, but they've been champions of this. and i have republicans and democrats in the house. it will be the biggest labor law change in the last 100 years, by my biggest life accomplishment. but more importantly, this is going to change the landscape, making the workplace safer for millions of people. and i'll be incredibly proud with this moment happen. >> gretchen carlson, my hat's off to you. bringing republicans and democrats together. that's not easy these days. even the president is having trouble with that. thanks for joining us tonight. thanks for those perspectives. we really appreciate it. >> thank you for having me, jim. right wing media thrives on stoking rage, and that makes it seem like we're the divided states of america. but john avlon says there is reason for hope. i'd love to hear some hope.

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as we have highlighted throughout the week, the need to save our democracy is dire and urgent, but i don't say this to leave you in despair. keep in mind, there are plenty of things that divide us, yes. but there is so much more that unites us. that is the subject of john avlon's reality check tonight. he is here to take us through it. john, give us some hope here. >> we are going to keep hope alive for you, jim. look, despite all the doom and gloom and division that seems to dominate our democracy, today we got some good news. the u.s. economy grew 5.7% last year despite the drag of the pandemic. now, that is the fastest since 1984 when reagan was re-elected. now, typically, political sent sentiment follows the james carville rule, you know, it's the economy, stupid. but despite near-record growth, we are feeling not so fresh as a nation. a recent nbc news poll found 72% of americans think we are headed

in the wrong direction, and look, there are plenty of rational reasons for folks to feel frustrated from the ongoing pandemic, to the persistence of the big lie and rising costs from inflation. yes. we face real challenges, as every generation does. perfect's never on the menu. but what if i told you that we are not as deeply, evenly, and hopelessly divided as it feels? because the truth is, we're not a 50-50 nation on many major issues. instead, there is surprisingly broad agreement on basic facts and values within america. it's just that a loud minority of the population keeps dominating the conversation. let me explain. the fact we have one political party that, for the most part, refuses to accept a free and fair presidential election is bad for our democracy. no question about it. but even if 69% of folks who voted for trump believed the big lie, as a recent "washington post" poll shows, that translates to just 29% of the

american people, as a whole. that is not an evenly divided nation. instead, it's evidence of an intense minority who have been indoctrinated by hyperpartisan nonsense. so, don't let 'em gaslight you into thinking you're the crazy ones. they are the odd outliers. likewise, the persistence of the pandemic affects us all and it is frustrating to see the omicron variant so contagious. but the vast, vast majority of hospitalizations and deaths are among the unvaccinated. it is a self-inflicted tragedy but consider this. 75% of the american people have received at least one dose of the vaccine. that's extraordinary. now, that means that 25% of americans are still unvaccinated. and according to the kaiser family foundation, they lean 3-1 republican. now, it's impossible to say the exact overlap between the 29% of americans who believe the big lie, and the 25% who are still unvaccinated. and these bitter enders do have a negative effect, though, on the overall health of our democracy. we are being held back, held

hostage, some might say, by many of their conspiracy theorist beliefs but there is reason for hope because even many of the culture-war wedge issues that have dominated debates in the past have seen movement towards majority consensus. take same-sex marriage. now, according to the most recent gallup poll, a record 70% of americans now believe in equal rights on the issue. that is up from 27% back in 1996. or marijuana legalization. gallup shows it's reached a new high with 68% support. and it's worth noting that 72% of americans oppose completely overturning roe v. wade according to a marquette poll released just yesterday. no wonder, there is a discomfort with majoritarian democracy. look. the divisions we are dealing with are real but the good news is that we are not as deeply divided as you might think. it's just that the right-wing echo chamber is loud and

relentless in its dissemination of disinformation. so don't give up hope. let's confront the challenge we face with the confidence that comes from knowing our nation has overcome major obstacles before in the effort to form more perfect union and we will, again, if we can see our way past all the screamers to build on the considerable common ground that still exists. and that's your reality check. jim. >> and, john, what is the one thing that can get us going in that direction do you think? >> i think we need to emphasize what unites us more than what divides us. i think we need to give people the confidence that they are not alone. >> i love it. sounds great. okay. let's do it. john avlon, thanks very much. we'll be right back. you're never responsible for unauthorized purchases on your discover card. looking to get back in your type 2 diabetes zone? once-weekly ozempic® can help. ♪ oh, oh, oh, ozempic®! ♪

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