the news continues. let's turn things over now to don and "don lemon tonight." >> thank you very much, anderson. this is dnl "don lemon tonight" we have some breaking news that's just in to cnn, a story we first brought you last night on this very program. abc has suspended whoopi goldberg for two weeks in the wake of her comments on "the view" yesterday claiming the

holocaust was not about race. again, abc news suspending whoopi goldberg for two weeks in the wake of her comments on "the view" yesterday claiming the holocaust was not about race. i'm going to speak with someone who was on "the view" with her just today to get how he feels. i'm talking about jonathan greenblatt of the adl. to see what he feels, how he feels about the suspension and his appearance today, what whoopi has had to say. that's coming up straight ahead. so stay tuned for that. plus, it is a really big deal, a really big deal that in 2022, the first day of black history month, to make good on a pledge to put the first black female justice on the supreme court. right? well, apparently it is. and republicans' hits are exploding again. ooh, it's discrimination. ooh, it's affirmative action, it's politicizing the court. i'm going to break all of this down for you just to show the hypocrisy in all of this. again, these are facts. so think about that for a minute. they're openly outraged by one thing and really one thing only.

the fact that the nominee will be a black woman. they know nothing else about her. nothing. nobody does. she hasn't -- because she hasn't even been chosen yet. but they're not willing to wait until they even know the littlest bit about her qualifications. they're not willing to give the president the benefit of the doubt. they don't care that he promises the nominee will have extraordinary character, experience, and integrity. roll the tape. >> the person i will nominate will be someone with extraordinary qualifications, character, experience and integrity. and that person will be the first black woman ever nominated to the united states supreme court. >> they're screaming bloody murder because she will be a black woman. how dare the president keep his campaign promise and nominate the first black woman to the highest court in the land? how dare he? after all, there have been 108 white men, two black men, five

women, four of them white and one latina. that's not stopping ted cruz from being triggered by the whole thing. or maybe he's just triggered to try to get some political advantage out of it. >> it is wrong to discriminate based on race. and when joe biden throws out a quota that the only people he will consider for this nomination are african american women, he is number one rejecting regardless of merits everybody else, whether they are white or black or hispanic or native american. he's saying nobody else, doesn't matter your credentials, doesn't matter your background, doesn't matter who you are, i joe biden will discriminate based on race. >> and -- then there's susan collins. doubling down on her insistence that president biden is politicizing the court by doing just what president reagan did more than 40 years ago. >> if you go back and look, what

i said is i doubt that diversity benefits the supreme court and that i thought it would be great to have a woman of color, a black woman on the court. i do not think the president handled this as well as he could have by making a pledge to -- during his campaign. >> but president reagan did that as well. >> president reagan said one of his supreme court justices would be a woman. you're skipping over what he exactly said. >> there's always a videotape, so let's go to it again. >> i'm announcing today that one of the first supreme court vacancies in my administration will be filled by the most qualified woman i can possibly find, one who meets the high standards i will demand for all court appointments. it's time for a woman to sit

among our highest jurists. >> and why did ronald reagan do that? politics. sue spencer was reagan's chief strategist telling the "l.a. times," "reagan's support with women was slipping in 1980, in part because of his opposition to abortion rights and the proposed equal rights amendment." and i quote here, "it was not an ideological decision at all." going on to say, it was all about "seeking a solution to his deficit problem with women." so the reason reagan, ronald reagan, chose a woman justice was because he had a problem with female voters. that is politics. listen again. >> i'm aannouncing today that one of the first supreme court vacancies in my administration will be filled by the most qualified woman i can possibly find. >> if i'm elected president and have an opportunity to appoint someone to the courts, it will be -- i'll appoint the first black woman to the courts.

>> what's the difference? what is the difference? huh. sure seems like some people are afraid of black women. that's what it seems like. and with that, happy black history month, everybody. and what do we have as we mark the history in this country of people who look like me? let's see. there is the possibility, the possibly manufactured outrage over the president of the united states vowing to nominate the first black woman to the supreme court. apparently, some people would have you believe righting historical wrongs is actually discrimination, and/or affirmative action, take your pick. thats ahistorically black colleges and universities across the country have had to lock down or postpone classes over bomb threats. at least 19 in the past two days. the fbi working with law enforcement. and with all this going on to january 6th now. the committee is zeroing in on pence world. the former vice president's chief counsel, greg jacob, meeting with the committee today. and he is a key witness.

he was with the then vice president at the capitol on january 6th when he was forced to run for his life as rioters chanted "hang mike pence." seems like pence loyalists wouldn't be talking to the committee without at least tacit approval from him. so what do they know? and what are they telling about what the then president and his cronies were up to? what do they know and what are they telling about the plot to overturn the election? meanwhile, you've got to wonder just what mitch mcconnell is doing, saying exactly what the former president doesn't want him to say, that the election was decided on december 14th and that he's not in favor of pardons like the former president was floating over the weekend. >> the election of 2020 was decided december the 14th of 2020 when the electoral college certified the winner of the election. what we saw here on january the

6th was an effort to prevent the peaceful transfer of power from one administration to another, which had never happened before in our country. my view is i would not be in favor of shortening any of the sentences for any of the people who pleaded guilty to crimes. >> that's all well and good. as far as it goes. right? note that mcconnell is only talking about people who pleaded guilty. but let's remember, minutes after he voted to let the disgraced former president who incited an insurrection off the impeachment hook he took to the senate floor and he said this. >> there's no question, none, that president trump is practically and morally responsible for provoking the

events of the day. >> what has mitch mcconnell actually done? you can't have it both ways. what has he actually done? if you condemn what the former president did, how can you refuse to hold him responsible? our democracy demands more, demands that we hold accountable the people who tried to destroy it. president biden says that he wants to work with the senate to choose a nominee for the supreme court, but republicans are joining up outrage over his vow to choose a black woman. how's that going to work out? plus why abc news suspended whoopi goldberg from "the view." i'm going to talk to someone who was on the show with her today. and it's temperature balancing so you both sleep just right. and now, save 50% on the sleep number 360 limited edition smart bed. plus, 0% interest for 24 months. only for a limited time. nurse mariyam sabo knows a moment this pure... ...demands a lotion this pure. new gold bond pure moisture lotion.

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discover more in the all-new subaru forester wilderness. love. it's what makes subaru, subaru. president biden consulting with key senators on both sides of the aisle as he begins the process of choosing a nominee for the supreme court. but because he is pledging to fill the soon to be vacant seat with the first black woman on the court, some politicians on the right are falling all over themselves in outrage. we want to bring in now cnn political commentator ashley allison, cnn political commentator kirsten powers, the author of "saving grace."

the phenomenal book "saving grace." ashley, president biden says he wants to work with both sides when choosing a person to nominate for the supreme court. how challenging will that be when so much of what we're hearing from the right is outrage over biden's pledge to nominate a black woman without even knowing which black woman he's going to nominate? >> well, first, happy black history month, don. >> you took the words out of my mouth. i was going to say it and then i was halfway into your intro and i said maybe i shouldn't. but anyway. happy black history month to both of you, by the way. >> thank you. i think to your question, though, is it's going to be extremely challenging. one, because republicans have really not shown good faith effort to want to have bipartisan relationships with this administration to date with the exception of the infrastructure bill. but two, you know, we are seeing racism play out in america in a very traditional sense. and what i mean by that is racism has hypocrisy in it, it it has hate in it, it has

discrimination in it. and often when people of color or black people say they experience racism they're often dismissed because they're being -- they feel they're being told they're being too sensitive or that there aren't clear facts. well, everyone has said, ronald reagan, a white man, who was running for president, said the exact same thing that joe biden did. a white man who was running for president. and that was commit to having a woman on the court. one exception is that joe biden used the word black. and so when you look at the facts you realize that the reason republicans are up in arms about this is because we are talking about race and particularly a black woman. so i don't suspect -- this woman could be the most qualified person in the history of a nominee for the supreme court, and i still think they would deploy some of their tactics to try to block her and smear her name. >> kirsten, how do i say this? you know, people don't get

upset -- people say that this is not a -- an appointment to the supreme court is not -- should not be politicized. when the right picks people based on their conservatism on their party. the left picks people based on their liberalism, on their party. it is inherently a political process. and then you have someone like ted cruz, who's calling biden's pledge offensive and insulting. you have senator roger wicker who's saying that biden's nominee was a beneficiary of affirmative action. mike rounds says that it hurts the nominee's credibility. senator josh hawley says that it's a mistake to basically say that you have a quota. what is this really about? i mean, it's political oppor opportunism. it's rallying up the base. what's going on? >> well, it is riling up the base. but i think it's also telling us something about them. if you're a person who hears i'm going to nominate a black woman to the supreme court and the first thing you think of is this

is not going to be the most qualified person available, you have a problem. right? there's something wrong with the way you see the world. because those two things are not in contradiction. it doesn't -- it goes without saying that the person's going to be qualified. it's the supreme court. i would go a step further and say if it's a black woman she's not only going to be qualified she's going to be more qualified. because in order for a black woman to get to the place that any of his nominees have gotten, potential nominees have gotten to, requires that they not be just as good as the white men. it requires them to be better. so something is wrong if you hear these words and you automatically assume that it's not going to be the most qualified person. what you're essentially saying is i don't believe that there is a black woman in this country that's qualified to be on the supreme court. >> there's always a first, though, kirsten. there's a first jewish justice.

brandeis. louis brandeis. the first black justice. thurgood marshall. the first woman, sandra day o'connor. the first italian american, antonin scalia. and yet there is something clearly triggering about the first black woman to be on the court. >> well, i think -- i think there is an attitude here that this is a court that really is supposed to be for white men. and it was for a long time. and even if you look at the comments that senator wicker made about justice sotomayor, saying basically that whoever biden's going to choose is going to be like her, like there's something uniquely wrong with her. right? what sets her apart from the other people who are on the court? and it's the fact that she's not white. or that she's not -- you know, she's hispanic. and so i think that they're clearly showing us what they believe. and by the way, can you find a single clip of ted cruz complaining about racism against

a black person? because the only time i ever hear him talk about it is about this alleged like anti-white racism. so they pretend like they care so much about racism, but where are they for black lives matter? where are they when black men are being gunned down in the street? they're nowhere. but he's literally talking about white people being discriminated against? it's insane. >> ashley, you mentioned ronald reagan speaking of white women, right? ronald reagan nominating a woman, sandra day o'connor. and the last president that they so revered, donald trump, saying that he was going to pick a woman to fill ruth bader ginsburg's seat, which was amy coney barrett. why is this any different? >> because they're talking about black women. and they want to treat us different. to kristen's point, one of of them said, well, black women only make up 6% of the country. well, right. they're saying that they don't think that 6% matters. they don't think latino people matter. they don't think poor people

matter. they don't think other than white men matter. and they don't have -- they shouldn't deserve the opportunity to sit on the highest court in the land. the other thing that i think is really comical about this is republicans saying that joe biden politicized this. sure, they were running for office. it's politics. but the republicans are masterminds behind politicizing supreme court nominations. when justice scalia passed away, president obama couldn't even get a breath out before mitch mcconnell politicized that nomination and said he wouldn't even give the person a vote. president obama didn't say what type of person it was. and that was because there was a political -- a presidential election when justice ginsburg died and they nominated justice barrett and they rushed that nomination through in historical time period. it's because there was an election. and that was at the leadership of mitch mcconnell. so to say that joe biden is the one politicizing a supreme court nomination is a joke. >> thank you both. i appreciate it. good to see you.

so breaking tonight, as i said at the top of the show, whoopi goldberg suspended from "the view" after saying yesterday the holocaust wasn't about race. i'm going to speak with someone who was on "the view" as she apologized for those comments this morning. that's next. collagen! olay body wash hydrates to improve skin 3x better, from dry and dull to firm and radiant. with olay body, i feel fearless in my skin. >> woman: what's my safelite story? i see inspiration right through my glass. so when my windshield cracked, i chose safelite. they replaced the glass and recalibrated my safety system. that's service i can trust. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ ♪ life can be a lot to handle.

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okay. this is our breaking news tonight. whoopi goldberg suspended from "the view" for two weeks.

that's according to abc news. the president of abc news saying that she asked whoopi to reflect and learn about the impact of her comments, comments she made saying that the holocaust isn't about race. whoopi did appear on "the view" today and made this apology. here it is. >> i said something that i feel a responsibility for not leaving unexamined because my words upset so many people. which was never my intention. and i understand why now. and for that i am deeply, deeply grateful because the information i got was really helpful and helped me understand some different things. and while discussing how a tennessee school board unanimously voted to remove a graphic novel about the holocaust i said that the holocaust wasn't about race and it was instead about man's inhumanity to man. but it is indeed about race because hitler and the nazis considered jews to be an inferior race.

now, words matter, and mine are no exception. i regret my comments, as i said, and i stand corrected. i also stand with the jewish people, as they know, and y'all know because i've always done that. >> so after her apology she and the other hosts of "the view" spoke with jonathan greenblatt. jonathan is the ceo and national director of the anti-defamation league, and he joins me now. i watched it today, jonathan. thank you for joining us. and i appreciate you coming on. let's have this conversation. first of all, i have to ask you about the news now. the breaking news. abc news suspending whoopi for two weeks. what do you think of that decision? >> well, look, whoopi goldberg is literally one of the most visible women in television. "the view" is watched by millions and millions of people every single day. and her comments did cause tremendous confusion and hurt, particularly in the jewish community which, think about it, don, it's less than a week after holocaust remembrance day.

it's but ten days since a rash of anti-semitic flyering across the country. it's two weeks after the hostage taking in texas. it's six months after jews were beaten in broad daylight by anti-israel activists. there are a lot of reasons why the jewish community is concerned. but for me she apologized last night online and then she did so again this morning. you know, and i accept her apology. i know she's been a friend of the jewish community all throughout her career. and i respect that and appreciate it. i can't comment on abc news internal process. but what i will say is that i hope whoopi can use the next two weeks for a process of introspection and learning. right? i don't think holocaust remembrance day should be one day of the year. we can learn about the holocaust 365 days, just like today is the first day of black history month, don. but i don't think we should confine our thinking about black history to just 28 days. so let's hope that she can use

this time, use this opportunity, and use her amazing platform to educate herself and to share what she learns with her audience and with the country at large. visit the holocaust museum. you know, meet with survivors. work with the adl. there are lots of ways whoopi can make i ahuge difference. and i hope she'll do that. >> does intent matter? i mean, words matter of course. but does intent matter, jonathan? especially in this situation. >> well, look, of course intent matters. i mean, it's really important that people say what they mean and they mean what they say. and so again, i think when she was talking yesterday about these issues, and i think she really, again, created a kind of confusion and hurt because the holocaust was absolutely about race. it was a racialized anti-semitism, don. and again, that might not fit with the way that some people think about race, the way all of us as americans have to confront

it in this country, in this time when black americans are still dealing with the legacy of jim crow and enslavement and systemic oppression. and yet, race is a social construct and it shows up differently in different societies. and so again, if we look back to germany, the nazis believed that they were the master race and jews were a subhuman race -- >> jews were the inferior race. that's what they believed. >> yeah. and they waged a war of extermination against the jewish people because of this belief in race. that's undeniable. it's what happened. >> i want to get through a lot here, and i don't want to be rude but i just want to get through a lot because i have a lot of questions to ask you because i do think that this is a teachable moment. right? and you said you stand in support of whoopi because of her history but you don't support the words the way she said it. and that's understand -- i think there can be nuance there. let's start there. we spoke with you last night. this was after whoopi issued the statement, the apology. but before her previously -- that was before her previously

taped interview with stephen colbert, before that aired. i want to play just part of that. so watch this, jonathan. >> if the klan is coming down the street and i'm standing with a jewish friend and neither one -- well, i'm going to run. but if my friend decides not to run, they'll get passed by most times because you can't tell who's jewish. it's not something that people say oh, that person is jewish or this person is jewish. so that's what i was trying to explain. >> so colbert did push back on bringing up that nazis marked jews with yellow stars so they could easily be recognized. if you look at your screen, you can see a photo. this is from the 1940s. it shows just that. it was taken in lodz ghetto in poland. right? how dangerous is the perspective that if you can't see someone's

race on the outside then they are safe from persecution? do you think that that's dangerous? >> we know that's dangerous. and it's flat out wrong. so a few things. the nazi nuremberg laws that sub -- that regarded jews as subhuman were based in part on the way that the laws about race existed in this country, that one drop of blood made a person jewish like they say one drop of blood made a person african american or black in this country. so indeed, you can't see necessarily who is black or jewish. this is a social construct. and let me say something else, don. let's dispel the myth that all jews are white. there are millions of jews of color. jews who are black and who are brown, who are asian. jews of all hues. so just because someone presents as white or black doesn't mean you know their identity. and so i really think we just need to dispel this myth, you

know, that the holocaust was white on white crime. give me a break. this was a racist, horrific act of brutality. and if we think about those -- the kkk people, don, who in her scenario would be chasing her down the street. let me tell you, they would chase her and me because anti-semitism is at the beating heart of white supremacy. blacks and jews, we have so much in common, particularly that we have faced bigotry through the ages. and again, let's hope, don, that through this moment we can find ways to work together to face the hate that threatens all of us. >> let me ask you, because as i am honestly -- this is in real time. as i'm interviewing you i have people texting me. jewish friends texting me. one of them is saying censorship at its finest. "i understood what she was trying to say. it was clumsy but i don't think it was malevolent." what do you say to that? >> well, i don't know who your friend is and i don't know exactly what the context of the

tweet is. but let me just say this. we sometimes have people in public places who can say clumsy things about race or faith or gender. i don't believe in cancel culture. i like the phrase that my friend nick cannon uses. we need counsel culture. we shouldn't cancel whoopi because she made a mistake, even if she made the mistake again on colbert. you know, in the jewish faith, don, we have a concept called tshuva. and tshuva means redemption. it means all of us have the power to admit when we do wrong and to commit to doing better. i heard whoopi say that she's committed to doing better. i accept that apology with the sincerity with which she delivered it. again, to my face this morning on "the view." and i'm committed, adl is committed to work with her and to work with others who really want to use this as a teachable moment. >> mm-hmm. this whole conversation, right?

started with the book "maus," right? the pulitzer prize-winning book "maus." and just about the -- what people don't know about anti-semitism. and jonathan, there was a poll that most people -- i shouldn't say most people. many people have no idea what the term anti-semitism means in this country. so we need a lot of educating in this country. >> we do. >> what's the parting words here when people say, well, if you ask a lot of people on the street do you believe anti-semitism exists, what is anti-semitic and so on, are jewish people -- is it a race or is it -- judaism a religion or race or what have you? i think many people would have no idea. what do we do in this? what do we do from here? >> anti-semitism -- we're never going to beat anti-semitism or hate of any kind by just arresting people or litigating. we need to change hearts and minds. it starts with engs. right? it's the oldest hatred, and it's this conspiracy theory, don,

that's lasted thousands of years and led to tremendous suffering for jewish people and death, you know, over time, whether in europe or the middle east. when you demonize and delegitimize jewish people or the jewish state you create the sparks for violence and hate. and that's just got to stop. the reality is jews are less than 2% of the u.s. population, don, and we're nearly 60% of the victims of faith-related hate crimes. the numbers are astonishing. what we've seen in just -- we're about 115% increase over the last five years. jews have been targeted in our synagogues, in our supermarkets, in the places where we live. so anti-semitism is a real issue for our community. and yet the way we're going to beat this back is realizing that our safety is tied to both security and solidarity. calling out the hate when it happens and educating and working with others to create a boater future for everyone. this is the thing, don, and i've

said this before on your show. anti-semitism is not a jewish problem. it's an american problem. it's a corrosive kind of hate that erodes the foundation of our society. and there's a through line from charlottesville to capitol hill. we've got to confront this when it happens. we've got to do it with conviction. and again, i hope for whoopi's sake that i'll have the chance, adl can work with her in the weeks and months ahead. and i hope your friends at "the view," don, our friends at "the view," you know, they're looking for a fifth host. i'm kind of busy with my day job. i don't know about you. but i hope they'll think about a jewish host for that slot. like they focus a lot on representation. they haven't had a jewish host in years. this would be a great way for "the view" to bring in a jewish perspective and to address these issues on a regular basis. could really be a win-win for them if they get it right. >> listen, i think that a good word for the moment is empathy.

especially people marginalized people, people of cloolor, peop who are traditionally discriminated against. when these moments happen, we need to be allies and we need to be empathetic and we need to open our ears instead of our mouths and listen. it is my job to ask the questions. and i think you also have to remember, too, look, i'm going to say i thought what whoopi said was clumsy. do i think she's an anti-semite? i don't think. do i think she can learn some things? absolutely. i think that she can. but i think in this moment we need to think about intent. we need to think about who our allies are. and there is a difference between someone who's marching on the street with a swastika or, you know, a crazy auschwitz t-shirt, than someone who's on a show called "the view," right? because i say i'm on this show every night and i say things that i regret all the time. and sometimes it comes out of my mouth and i want to pull it

back. right? and i think as long as we can learn from that. and if the apology is sincere, i think we should allow people to move on and not so-called cancel them. but we have to learn our lesson -- >> counsel -- >> we've got to take the consequences for it. right. >> counsel, not cancel. let's -- and it seems like she's ready to commit to doing better. and i'm excited to help her with that process. >> i'm so glad we have people like you here. and let's continue this conversation. >> i'm glad you're hosting this conversation, don, because this is what america needs, right? reasoned, fact-based empathetic conversation. that's how we move forward. >> yeah. thank you, jonathan. i appreciate it. we'll have you back. thank you so much. i appreciate your candor. thanks for coming on. >> thank you, sir. >> we have a lot more to cover. we'll be right back. a lot of ideas. so when she wants a plan based on what matters most, she turns to fidelity. at fidelity, anyone can create a free plan. a plan that can change as your priorities do.

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damning behind-the-scenes details about how the former

president and his inner circle scrambled to keep him in power. cnn has learned aides drafted two versions of an executive order to seize voting machines in states that trump lost. the first directing the department of defense to seize the machines. the second directing homeland security to do it. and had they been issued, it would have caused a crisis never before seen in american history by directing military and federal agents to seize voting equipment for political purposes. "the new york times" is reporting that the then president himself was involved, and i quote here, "president donald j. trump directed his lawyer, rudolph w. giuliani, to make a remarkable call. mr. trump wanted him to ask the department of homeland security if it could legally take control of voting machines in key swing states." now, sources are saying that the idea came from two retired military officers, former trump national security adviser michael flynn and army colonel phil waldron. but it's not clear who wrote the orders. and today another top aide to the former vice president, mike pence, greg jacob, met with the

january 6th committee. joining me now to discuss all of this, cnn's senior legal analyst and the former u.s. attorney preet bharara. he is the author of "justice is a guide for young truth seekers." preet, good evening to you. that's a lot. that was a mouthful, all of the developments coming out of this -- the january 6th committee and the investigation. this is important because in totality it's extremely frightening. a president of the united states was considering trying to seize election machines to keep himself in power. it's an unhinged attempt really to burn down democracy. can the law hold him accountable? >> well, let's see. there are a lot of processes under way. i continue to find it amazing -- maybe i shouldn't. that 13 months after the events of january 6th we have new information coming to light that not only talks about people around the president who did things in the former president's name but with his knowledge. and one of the great questions here when you talk about accountability at the top of the

food chain on the part of the commander in chief of the united states of america is what did he know, when did he know it and what did he ask people to do? and these new reports put him right at the center. not as someone who was speaking in code and indirectly suggesting, you know, go and fight, the kinds of things that his defenders have said, make his speech on january 6th just mere political speech and not incitement. we keep hearing time and time again in recent times, and we'll probably get more revelations in the coming days and weeks as well, that it was trump's idea to do these things. we now have evidence that trump was interested in having three different cabinet agencies seize voting machines. not mild talk on january 6th, you know, make your voice heard, but to seize voting machinery in the absence of any evidence that there was anything wrong with that voting machinery, including the department of defense, which is unheard of for the department of defense to do things in connection with law enforcement or elections in the country.

that's what happens in banana republics, not in the united states of america. >> let's talk more about the d.o.d. because we're seeing these draft orders that would have pressured the d.o.j. and the dhs. he had allies in the doj to do his bidding. he was telling pence to overturn the election in congress. was there any part of the government that he didn't want to use to overturn a democratic election? >> no. in fact, he's the head of the federal government. we have a federal system in this country. you have the federal government, then you have state and local governments. there's also evidence that not only was trump trying to pressure federal agencies that are presumably under his command and control to do things that were unlawful and unpatriotic and un-american but also making calls to georgia state officials and also trying to get other law enforcement agencies within states, local agencies, local institutions, to do his bidding. so he had a long list, maybe we don't know the whole list at this point, and hopefully we

will and the 1-6 committee will get to the bottom of it. but he had a long list of levers that he was pulling in his position as president of the united states to in his words -- by the way, these are his words now. to overturn the election. through mike pence or other means if necessary. >> you know, he is -- trump is now openly admitting that he wanted pence to overturn the election. he's saying that he is considering pardoning january 6th rioters if he is re-elected. is he gaslighting the country by admitting to the coup attempt, like this was somehow normal? >> it's a little bit of his m.o. during various junctures during the campaign, during his presidency, you you know, people asked the question how does this compare to what nixon did? and some people say it's worse, some people say it's comparable. what is different is the m.o. he's not hiding a lot of the things that he did. and he i think has this practice of trying to own the thing, releasing that call with the president of ukraine that led to his first impeachment, saying it

was a perfect call, saying that he was doing these things i think tries to send the message to his base and to others that if he's saying it out loud what's wrong with it. he had the power and authority to do so, what's wrong with it. but what he doesn't i think appreciate is that it gives people, prosecutors, members of that committee, ammunition to read what was his state of mind on january 6th. if he's happy at what these people did and he's thinking about pardoning them, that tells you that he wanted them to do what they did, which was an attempt to overturn the election. >> another top aide to the former vice president mike pence, greg jacob. i mentioned him a moment ago. met with the january 6th committee today. his former chief of staff marc short gave an interview last week. would they have done this if pence didn't approve? >> i don't think so. you know, the speculation, i think it's reasonable speculation, that mike pence is trying to thread the needle of maintaining some -- i don't know what kind of relationship he can

maintain with the former president. but maybe at least not run directly afoul of him and -- >> well, they say he hasn't spoken to him since the summer. but go on, preet. >> yeah. i don't know what kind of relationship he's trying to preserve. more than likely he's trying to preserve some kind of relationship but i think under no circumstances will these folks will testifying if mike pence wasn't okay with it. and it seems like what the vice president is doing is trying to have his cake and eat it too. he doesn't want to testify, appear before the committee and say bad things about donald trump's actions and statements. and this is a little bit of a halfway, meet him in the middle so his aides can be approximate z proxis for that. and it's not enough. the very, very close aids that have a lot of firsthand

knowledge of communications between mike pence and various other folks and between mike pence and the former and are willing to say it, and some of them have papered over. they are documents and notes they took at the time. so even if at the end of the day mike pence doesn't take the witness stand before the committee, the committee will have information about what mike pence was thinking, saying and doing, and what the former president was thinking, saying and doing, and that is not a small thing. >> great, thank you, sir. appreciate it. see you soon. >> thank you, don. >> the 2022 winter olympics set to take place this week. and the fbi has a warning for athletes. ♪ we see companies protecting the bottom line by putting people first. we see a bright future, still hungry for the ingenuity of those ready for the next challenge.

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another top aide from pence world is