tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN February 3, 2022 9:00pm-10:00pm PST
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visa prepaid card with a qualifying bundle. are you a christian author with a book that you're ready to share with the world? get published now, call for your free publisher kit today! good evening. tonight, the very latest on what president biden calls a testament to the country's reach and capability for eliminating terrorist threats around the globe. a risky, predawn raid conducted by elite u.s. forces on a home in northwest syria near the turkish border. when it was over, the leader of isis was dead. in a moment, my conversation with pentagon spokesman john kirby on what went into the planning of it. first, cnn's oren liebermann on
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how the operation unfolded. >> reporter: a u.s. raid shattering the overnight hours in northwest syria. special forces going after the leader of isis,. >> last night's operation took a major terrorist leader off the battlefield. and it sent a strong message to terrorists around the world -- we will come after you and fwiend find you. >> president joe biden watched from the white house as special forces closed in on their target. the helicopters approached the three-story compound in the middle of the night according to senior administration officials. once on the ground, special forces warned civilians to clear out, evacuating ten civilians, including eight children. officials say he then blew himself up, killing his wife and children, and tearing the top of the building apart. his lieutenant one floor below was killed in an exchange of fire with u.s. forces. the pentagon said a child was also killed on this floor but wouldn't say how or by whom. toward the end of the two-hour
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operation, officials say two members of an al qaeda affiliate were killed in an exchange of fire with u.s. forces. u.s. forces also having to destroy one of the helicopters on the ground after mechanical failures. four civilians were killed in all, according to the pentagon, and five combatants. that wasn't the plan. >> and i said capture the leader of isis. that was the intent of the mission. >> reporter: this raid was the biggest u.s. operation in syria since the operation to kill baghdadi in 2019, the original leader of isis. his exact birthplace and birth date, unclear. he was a u.s. detention in 2008 before he was turned over to the iraqis, and at some point, released. in march 2020, the state department labeled him a specially designated global terrorist with a $10 million reward. >> he was responsible for the recent brutal attack on a prison in northeast syria holding isis fighters. he was the driving force behind the genocide of the people in northwestern iraq in 2014.
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>> reporter: al qurayshi never left the third floor except to bathe on the roof, officials said. by early december, intelligence officials believed they had pinpointed his location, and biden authorized the operation. white house called his death a blow to isis but the terror organization still suffering from the defeat of its self-declared caliphate in 2019 has plans to rebuild. >> at this point, we are 24 hours after the operation but there remain a number of unanswered questions, including this discrepancy. pentagon says there were a total of nine killed as part of this operation. while the white helmets on the ground in syria say there were 13. so, that discrepancy needs to at some point be resolved. we certainly expect more information about this, anderson, u.s. officials say the next leader of isis will face the same fate. >> oren liebermann, appreciate it. want to get perspective from pentagon spokesman and retired navy rear dmierl john kirby. i spoke to him shortly before airtime. >> admiral, thanks for joining us. how long was this strike against isis in the planning stages?
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and what led to the decision to carry it out last night, can you say? >> yeah, this was several months in planning. i mean, going back into -- into the fall, well into the fall here, anderson. and it was really built up over a while. looking at the intelligence from a different variety of sources. to help us make sure that we had the right person, we had the right compound, and, of course, to your question, the right time. and um, timing is always a factor with respect to things you can't necessarily control, like the wther and the moonheight and that kind of thing. you want to do these kind of things at nighttime. so there were a couple times we thought we might be able to go a little earlier and the conditions weren't right. last night, the opportunity was there and we took it. >> isis may have lost this leader but as we have seen in the past, you know, other leaders pop up. what kind of capabilities do they still have as an organization, either, in the region or their ability to pursue attacks outside of syria? >> make no mistakes, isis is a
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much more degraded organization than they were in 2014. they -- they have definitely lost a lot of their resourcing, a lot of their authorities, and certainly a lot of their capabilities. that said -- and we have seen this over the last year or so -- they have been trying to reconstitute, trying to grow, trying to get stronger, trying to metastasize outside the region and social certainly we have seen indications they have designs on attacking the west and even our homeland. and he was a very hands on leader unlike his predecessor al baghdadi who was more of a policy guy. abdullah was involved actually in helping direct operations so he was very animated to reconstitute and to sort of lead a resurgence of isis. so, this is a big bird for them. but you are right. look, we are not -- we are not doing a victory dance here. no -- no -- no victory laps. we know that we got to stay focused on isis. we know that they still have designs to kill and maim and to terrorize and there will likely be another leader appointed by
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them. and so, we're gonna stay focused on the threat. >> we have seen, also, groups pledging allegiance to isis pop up. there is a whole conflict in the sahal in west africa. also, there has been fighting in mozambique, the rwandan military is involved trying to combat. how centralized is isis and some of these off chutes we are seeing in africa and elsewhere, are they just pledging allegiance or do they actually have contact and support from isis? >> yeah, they do have splinter groups that -- that sort of proclaim loyalty and allegiance to isis but kind of go their onown way both geographically and methods of their attacks and the goals they are trying to achieve in whatever the area is. that's what we mean by metastasization. they sort of espouse the same extreme ideology and -- and violence but they -- but they often pursue their goals in different ways based on where they are. i mean, we see that in
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afghanistan, for instance. you have isis-k which was responsible for that terrible attack on the abbey gate there at the kabul airport. and so, again, we saw abdullah was a chance to sort of provide not only an overarching structure for the larger organization but to be more directly involved in operations. >> are you concerned about a retaliatory strike from isis? >> we are always watching for threats by isis. i don't know -- we don't have any indication right now that there is some sort of retaliation in the offing but we will be watching this very, very closely. obvious hi, we are going to do what we need to do to protect ourselves, protect our allies and partners. >> we also have learned today the united states has intelligence the russian government has been planning to produce a propaganda video that would show a fake attack against russia. a video they could then use a pretext to invade ukraine. can you tell us anything about the nature of this intelligence and what is behind the decision to reveal it today? >> like all kinds of things with intelligence, first of all, we want to be careful how much detail we put out this but it is usually a collection of sources,
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a collection of material that lead us to a conclusion and we have been watching this for a while. and this is right out of the russian playbook. they have done this before. they did it in 2014 where they tried to create a false pretext for some sort of action. we believe that the information was credible enough to share at least parts of it with the public in the hopes that we can call out russia for what we know they are going to try to do. they have already, in the information space, just in the public-information space, anderson, they are already making claims against the ukrainian government as being aggressive or violating human rights of russian-speaking ukrainian citizens. i mean, they are already trying to create this narrative that ukraine and the western support to ukraine is a threat to their national security. >> is -- i don't know what term the pentagon would use but -- but where do you see the l likelihood of an invasion by military forces? i know the word imminent has been bandied about, not used by
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the white house lately for obvious reasons. >> number one, he continues to increase his capabilities militarily along the border with ukraine and belarus. and that means he increases to -- he continues to increase his options. his options for military use. so what we have said here at the pentagon is he could move any day and that is the way we are looking at it. >> to that point, there is russian troop buildup along the border of ukraine. russian -- including, a large deployment in belarus. nato estimates it will ultimately number some-30,000 soldiers. so, while ukraine is not a nato member, poland, which borders belarus, is -- is -- is -- is a nato member. how concerned is the pentagon about the russian president -- presence in belarus? >> we are watching that with deep concern because it does, again, give mr. putin more options. certainly, against ukraine. but it is very close to a nato ally. the eastern flank of nato and that's why we announced that we are going to be sending some extra troops from germany to romania. we have also announced we are going to be sending some troops
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to poland. we are in constant touch with our polish counterparts, the secretary spoke to the minister of defense there just a few days ago. all the eastern flank nations have expressed these concerns. we're -- we're seeing the same things that they are, and we're continuing to talk to them about perhaps additional capabilities they might need from the united states to help bolster their defenses. >> admiral john kirby, appreciate your time. thank you. >> yes, sir. well, we are going to have a live report from moscow coming up. talk to the cia's former head of russia operations. returning, though, to isis, we are joininged by someone who has written perhaps the definitive book on it. author of pulitzer prize winning book, black flags, the rise of isis, which is a great read. his latest report in "the post" is headlined islamic state's ghost-like laider was plotting comeback when u.s. commandos cornered him. so, what kind of comeback was this leader planning? >> well, isis has been flailing for a couple years ever since the defeat of the caliphate back
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in 2019. it's been struggling to get its footing in -- in syria and iraq. it was having successes with some of its regional affiliates, especially in africa, they were able to -- to have military victories and take over territory. but not so much in iraq and syria where it all got started. they were making small raids against police stations and that sort of thing. but then, in the last few months, you see isis becoming much more ambitious, much more aggressive. so, they are really trying to get something together. and just as this happens, just as things are starting to coalesce a bit, you have this really dramatic symbolic blow at least with the death of the leader and that's definitely going to set them back a bit. >> i mean, you said symbolic blow. is it tactically? i mean, just in terms of the operational capabilities of isis, is it a blow? >> well, it's pretty clear that he was involved in the planning. he was sort of the spiritual leader, in some ways. at the same time, he was kind of the invisible man. he was almost never seen. in fact, never seen since -- since he was appointed as --
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that was something that members of isis complained about. he didn't even release the perfunctory, you know, audio and video messages that baghdadi would release from time to time just to assure people that he was alive, and to reassure the troops. qurayshi seems to have barely ever left his house kind of like bin laden in his final days. but we did find out later bin lad laden was indeed active, involved in planning, involved in the strategic vision for the group. so there is no question he was involved in that kind of activity at least from his hideout in syria. >> what is isis able to carry out, outside of syria and iraq on -- on western targets? >> well, one thing they continue to do, in addition to these regional affiliates, some of which are quite impressive, is this messaging operation which was always core to the islamic state mission. they want to project themselves as not just powerful and important but also appeal to
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potential followers to do something for them. whether they are members or not. whether they have had official training or pledged allegiance to isis, they can motivate people to do bad things wherever they are, whether it's a young kid who is going to shoot up a shopping center or somebody who is going to try to blow himself up with homemade explosives. that potential has always existed. we see it from time to time and i think there is a real question of whether, right now, in retaliation for qurayshi's death, we might see those kind of attacks anywhere in the world. >> thank you very much. coming up next, a live report from moscow as a top american security official says the invasion of ukraine could come at any time and moscow reacts to allegations it was preparing a video pretext for it, complete with russian casualties, fake mourners, and real corpses. later, kareem abdul-jabbar joins us to talk about why the nfl is now down to just one black head coach in the entire league and a former coach's lawsuit alleging discrimination.
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a great tasting and easy way to start your day. some late developments in the ukraine crisis. white house national security official telling cnn's wolf bhitser, a russian invasion in his words could begin any time. also tonight, europeans diplomats tell cnn russian deployments in belarus are a big worry, and this this allows them fact access to the ukrapian capital less than two hours away. also, as discussed before the break. video falsely depicting an attack against russian territory complete according to the report with doctored military equipment, actors playing the role of mourners, and real corpses. when pressed on it today, state department spokesman ned price refused to provide evidence to back up the claim. britain's foreign secretary, though, called the disclosure clear and shocking evidence of russia's unprovoked aggression
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and underhanded activity to destabilize ukraine. as for moscow, cnn's nic robertson is there tonight. so what is the kremlin response to this u.s. claim? >> yeah, anderson, this is just one more in -- in what is a growing list of accusations that the kremlin is planning. there were reports of a less specified false-flag operation. the british government saying putin had a puppet, political puppet in mind to put in place to run ukraine once russian forces invaded. on this particular accusation, the russian ambassador to the european union said, no, this is not us. we're not doing this. he said there is no logical reason for russia to try to invent or fabricate something like this. if you listen to the media here, certainly the way that the media playing the story here, it is high the possibility that ukraine would attack russian-backed separatists in the east. there is the scope there for a false-flag operation to be used.
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a scope and space is there. the public is told that this is where a clash could come but an absolute, categorical denial from russian officials this evening. anderson. >> what world leaders is putin actually talking to right now and what kind of engagement is there with him by -- with other nations? >> i have to say, absolutely fascinating today. he -- he met in person with the argentinian president, alberto fernandez, and remember just a day -- two days before, he had met with his big european buddy, viktor orban, the hungarian prime minister. when he met with orban, they were sat at opposite ends of a long table when they gave a joint press conference, they were many meters, many feet apart giving the briefing. when he met the argentinian president today, there was, first, a handshake, and then there were hugging. i think perhaps the most
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important diplomatic call he had today, though, was with the french president. the third that he has had in less than a week now with emmanuel macron. according to the kremlin, the kremlin pushed for long -- legally, long-term legally binding guarantees that will address their security concerns. and macron from his office in paris, they said that he was searching for a diplomatic way to -- to -- to address the security situation and deescalate tensions. it doesn't appear there is a meeting of minds but this is a third call and in less than a week and that is quite significant. macron called today the polish president, the ukrainian president. he called president biden last night. but he says he is talking to a lot of other european leaders. macron seems to be putin's preferred engagement person on this security issue in ukraine. >> and putin and president xi of china are meeting tomorrow? >> they are. in fact, putin is on his way there now and if anything, this
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offers putin a couple of things here. one, he gets to kind of grandstand on the world stage and everyone's still waiting for him to give his response to the u.s. letter and the nato letter last week. uh, he also gets to strike some business deals with -- with the chinese leader. we heard from the kremlin today saying there were as many as 14 or 15 different deals on the table they could sign. and of course, you know, putin is facing huge international sanctions. deals with china could help him get around that. there could be conversations even of longer-term financial mechanisms to get both nations out from fiscal pressures coming from the united states. but, you know, he's got to watch his step. i suppose, with president xi in china, because remember when he invaded ukraine back in 2014, annexed crimea, sanctions were put on putin, putin went to make a gas deal with xi in china. he got a $400 billion gas deal but it was terms that were favorable to -- to the chinese
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and not to president putin. one of the things they are talking about now is a second gas pipeline coming from siberia. but, you know, the traits here, there is something in it for xi but for putin, it is that world stage and it is a possibility to find some economic solace facing what could be big sanctions if he invades ukraine. >> nic robertson in moscow, appreciate it. thanks. want to turn next to steve hall, served as chief of russia operations at the cia. so, steve, how typical is it for russia to lay groundwork like this as, according to this reporting, as pretext for an invasion? >> yeah, anderson, the russians approach warfare in sort of a different way than we do. they see it as a much more holistic type of thing. so it is not just how many boots on the ground, how many rifles in arms. they look at things they refer to as active measures. to us, that means things like cyber. preparing for -- for battle -- for the battle space. attacking cyberinfrastructure. propaganda efforts are -- are --
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they have always excelled since the times of lennon and even before. propaganda, whether it is the written word or whether, in this most recent case, it is actually, you know, video types of things. but the thing that concerns me most, um, is the line that the russians putut there with regard to russians in ukraine. putin has, in the past, said things like, well, wherever there are russians, there is russia. and so, what he has a tendency to do is to try to justify to the west, which if you are a westerner, you kind of think, well, maybe he's got a point here. um, and he is going to say things like, you know, the russians that live in the eastern part of ukraine -- it's a genocide by this nazi regime in kyiv. and so, we need to go in there. we need to attack to -- to pre protect our russian brothers and sisters and that is an escalation, that is a reason that he wants the west to believe why he can go in. gives him the right, essentially, the obligation some would say to go and do this. >> and that's what they are really good at. >> and already, russian
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politicians -- some -- are accusing kyiv of systematically denying local residents their basic rights. >> yeah. and that's going to be part of -- part of that whole, you know, that whole story, if you will, that -- that he is going to sell not only domestically to russians. you know, it makes a lot of sense to russians on the streets and in -- in moscow and other places. oh, there is russians there who are being treated poorly by -- by local government or by others or even by nato forces? and so, you know, we need to go in and do something about that. the other thing that is very clever about this is putin and the kremlin have not forgotten when the west, in their view or in their propaganda view, have done the same thing. you have already heard it when they talk about kosovo and i guarantee you you are going to hear it in the future. isn't that exactly what nato did with kosovo and took it away from serbia because there was some supposed genocide? so they are going to throw that in the west's faces to say if you can do this, we can do it too. it is very clever. >> are there any off ramps to
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deesque h deescalate this in your view? i mean, vladimir putin, we have heard he has had several conversations now with france's president. >> you know, it's interesting to watch to whole thing sort of unfold in slow motion. you will recall not too many weeks ago, we were all saying well, you know, it is just a matter of days or it's gonna happen soon. there is going to be a full -- full-force invasion of ukraine. and then, you know, people like myself and others were saying, well, there is just not a whole lot of room for die hoalogue he. and yet, the dialogue continues. he keeps taking phone calls. macron calls, he picks up the phone. president biden calls, you know, and of course it's easy to have a conversation between he and orban. putin and orban because they have a lot in common but i would say those are positive -- positive signs. you have got him talking and if there were absolutely no reason to talk and if he were absolutely convinced, then perhaps there is another way out of this so i think we will have to watch it continue to unfold even though it's frustrating that it does so so showily.
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>> steve hall, appreciate it. thank you. up next, we will speak with new york city mayor eric adams following his discussions with president biden today on the violence that's been plaguing the city and the nation. welcome to the next level. this is the all-new lexus nx. with intuitive tech... (car sfx: beep beep) (car sfx: watch for traffic) ...and our most advanced safety system—ever. ♪ get help managing your money for the life -- and years -- ahead. with fidelity income planning, we'll look at what you've saved, what you'll need, and build a straightforward plan to generate income, even when you're not working. a plan that gives you the chance to grow your savings and create cash flow that lasts. along the way, we'll give you ways to be tax efficient. and you can start, stop or adjust your plan at any time without the unnecessary fees.
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laid to rest after being shot and killed along with his colleague jason rivera while responding to a domestic violence call last year. there has been a sharp rise in shooting incidents in the city, up more than 32% last month compared to the previous year. the rise in crime is one of the reasons president biden came to the city today, visited police headquarters to discuss efforts to combat gun violence. >> every day in this country, 316 people are shot, 106 are killed, and six nypd officers have been victims of gun violence, so far, just this year. 64 children injured by gun violence so far this year. 26 killed. it's enough. enough is enough because we know we can do things about this. >> the president also spoke with yrk ynew york city mayor eric adams who is elected in on a promise to reduce violent crime in the city the past couple years. mayor, thanks for being with us.
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i am wondering how your meeting with the president went today and how effective you think his proposals for stopping gun violence could actually be? >> it went well, and i really want to thank the president, ambassador rice, as well as the attorney general because this was a promise that was made immediately after i got elected during the primary. and i asked them to come to the city, and see what the crisis management teams are doing on the ground and assist us in getting proper funding. something, he is calling congress to do. but i also asked at that time to have a 9/11-type response to the terror of terror of violence in our city. and he responded. and in august, there was an initiative put in place by the new york city police department that collaborated with atf, fbi, parole, probation, nypd, and he
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witnessed today how well that has been taking place. but we need the federal government to stop the flow of guns into our cities across america. >> do you think -- i mean, there's been criticism of the president for not talking enough, focusing enough on whether it's gun violence or just crime in the united states because it's not just new york city, obviously, we have seen rises in crime over the last couple years across the country. and the president has talked about it from time to time, but really not with a huge amount of focus. it was obviously a big focus of your campaign. what do you want to see happen in this city as an example in the next six to eight months? >> you know, anderson, this has been really an embarrassment throughout the years. unfolding on our streets every day. places like chicago, detroit, atlanta, san francisco, new york. we were witnessing this violence
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that was isolated to black and brown communities, and it was as though no one saw these crises. we talked about assault rifles but we never talked about the handguns that was really carving highways of death in the communities of color across america. this president has taken a different direction. he took his spotlight, and he stated that we're going to look at this gun violence and we're not going to allow it to continue. what we need in the next couple of months, both, locally and on the federal level, is to reexamine some of the laws that we -- we've passed. i continue to say there are many rivers that feed these sea of violence in our country. and the federal government plays a role. if we can get the federal government to fund atf to the level that they could identify the source of these guns, we would go a long way because nypd is doing their job. we took 6,000 guns off the street last year, close to 400 this year but we need to stop
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the flow as i institute my plans of putting in place plain-clothes anti-gun unit or modified anti-gun unit in plain vehicles, as well as precision policing. >> how much of that, you know, call by protestors to defund the police, which was obviously not something you have supported, nor has president biden ever supported, but that call which did gain a lot of popularity among hundreds of thousands of people protesting in the streets. obviously, was politically one thing. but it certainly was not popular among police officers. it -- there has been a really drop in morale. and even all those calls about, you know, police shouldn't respond when somebody is in a mental health crisis, it should be a mental health counselor. i -- from what i have read of the killing the two officers just recently, they were responding to a domestic call from a mom who was having trouble with her son. no mention of firearms involved and they got there, and he came out of the bedroom with guns
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blazing. >> and, anderson, this is what happened. you know, i spent my lifework dealing with reforming policing. you have interviewed me over the years when i have talked about police reform. i testified in federal court on the abuse of stop-and-frisk. so, you know i believe wholeheartedly in reform. but when you do reform, you can't ignore public safety. we witness individuals who only push reform, and ignored public safety. both parties must be in the room. we need to have the justice we deserve, but the safety we need and we need to tweak some of the legislation that we have witnessed to take in account the public-safety aspect of it. and then, we can't have cities, anderson, where people are walking into stores taking off the shelves, whatever they want without paying. and then, selling it on -- on -- on the internet because of organized crime methods. you can't have people on your subway systems or your streets
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that have mental health illnesses and unable to take care of themselves. you are watching the erosion of american cities because there is a mindset in our cities that any and everything is -- goes. there is no form of order. this is unacceptable, and too many young people believe it is permissible and all right to carry a firearm because that's the tone we have set and we have to stop that tone. >> mayor eric adams, appreciate talking to you. thank you. >> thank you. coming up. i will talk to kareem abdul-jabbar. he joins me live. we willook at the former nfl head coach suing the league claiming racial discrimination. kareem abdul-jabbar's question is what took so long? more on that, ahead. what if you could have the perspective to see more? at morgan stanley, a global collective of thought leaders
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are you a christian author with a book that you're ready to share with the world? get published now, call for your free publisher kit today! tonight, the nfl faces more disturbing allegations from former-head coaches, hugh jackson coach of cleveland browns until 2018 now says the team's owner paid him quote substantial money to lose hoz games in order to get a better draft pick. the browns call that categorically false. meanwhile, the miami dolphins' owner is refuting a similar claim by their former head coach, brian flores, who claims
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he was offered bribes of up to $100,000 a game. know flores is now suing the league but as we reported last night, his accusations go much furgtder. he says a pattern of racism against black coaches exist. well, 58% of nfl maplayers last season were black, there were only three black head coaches. the league is down to just one. basketball legend kareem abdul-jabbar has spent more than half a century calling out what he sees as injustice in his latest column for substack, he writes, what took so long? i am not referring specifically to flores's lawsuit but to making public the racism inherent in the nfl. kareem abdul-jabbar joins me now. thank you so much for being with us. let's talk at the flores lawsuit. first, the allegations of racism. what do you think is behind the lack of black people in management and head coaching positions in the nfl? >> i think that it has a lot to do with familiarity and just
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having it go on the way it's been going along because the nfl makes a lot of money and they don't see the need to open the doors to minorities. and they think things have gone very well as they have. >> i mean, there are problems in -- throughout industry, throughout companies of a lack of diversity at the very top of the -- the corporate pyramid. what -- what's particularly noticeable and what you point out in -- in your article on substack is that it's not as if there is a dearth of black employees in the nfl. uh, there are people who have -- most of the players, i mean, are -- are black and have experienced what working on a football team and know what it's like. and you would think, in that industry, it would be easier to have people moving up from after their -- their playing years, move up through management.
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>> almost 60% of the players in the nfl are black or some other person of color. and um, the fact that there are so many of them that have stood on the sideline. tony dungee. two examples were very successful guiding teams to the super bowl and winning. so, it -- i mean, where is the culprit? where does the guilt lie in not being able to hire more people of minorities status. the nba has tried it and it's been very successful for them. coaching, assistant coaching, people working in the financial aspects of the team, women refs.
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all these are considered controversial and the -- the nba continues to thrive and attract a bigger and bigger audience. so, i don't think the nfl has a foot to stand on in answering these questions. it -- it's been way too long and they should do something about it. >> it's interesting, also, that this is also gets the backdrop of criticism of president biden over saying he is looking for a black woman to fill a seat on the supreme court. and there is a lot of folks on -- on -- republicans mostly saying well you shouldn't specify like that. it should be whoever is the most qualified. um, but certainly, in the nfl, there are -- there are lots of people who are qualified who are black, and it doesn't seem like they are being considered at the same rate by the predominantly white owners. um, i mean, the flores halleges
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he was interviewed for the giants head coach position after they already offered the position to someone else and he alleges they did it to fulfill their rooney rule requirements, which the rooney rule is make sure women and minorities have a fair shot at coaching and front-office positions. the giants deny this claim. >> well, i think the giants just check the box. did you interview any minority candidates? and they check the box they interviewed one or two minority candidates and they move on and do what they've always been doing. >> hmm. >> and somebody had to call them out on it. and, you know, coach flores risks everything. you know, his own career but it's bigger than that. it's bigger than coaching. you know, this is about how we live in america and something should be done about it. >> just lastly, flores and as we mentioned hugh jackson, who coached the cleveland browns until 2018, allege they were
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offered money to lose games on purpose. i am wondering what your reaction to -- to those claims is? >> well, you know, when you hear reports like that, you immediately start to think of the integrity of the game and the people who make decisions that affect how the game is perceived and how the game is given so much -- so much of the spotlight. you know, this past weekend with the games for the division titles, it was just totally dominant on -- on the airwaves. a very successful business. >> yeah. >> but it has to really show that it cares about all of the people that are involved in it, not just the select few who have a lot of power. >> yeah. kareem abdul-jabbar, it is always a pleasure. thank you so much.
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>> great talking to you. >> yeah, great talking to you. coming up next, we are going to continue this conversation. former new york giants great barber is going to join us to talk about race in the nfl and the allegations brian flores made against barber's former team. plus just ahead, plexiglass barriers may represent a part of the new normal when it comes to fighting covid. they are in restaurants, you see in businesses, elsewhere, but do they actually work? randi kaye joins us with some answers. i may be close to retirement, but i'm as busy as ever. and thanks to voya, i'm confident about my future. voya provides guidance for the right investments.
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the white house is cautiously promoting the idea that we may soon enter a new normal where we coexist with the coronavirus, even if we return to something like our pre-covid lives. the surgeon general told cnn he's more optimistic than ever it may happen. for many, that would mean fewer masks and mask mandates, but it would also mean something we didn't see much of before the pandemic, those plexiglas barriers at restaurants and schools and businesses. are they actually effective, though? and how well do they work without masking? our randi kaye tonight has some answers. >> 3, 2, 1. >> reporter: inside this lab at florida atlantic university, two engineering professors are
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simulating a cough to see how coronavirus droplets may spread new the workplace and other real world situations. this mannequin's mouth is filled with water and glycerin. a pump forces it to expel the mixture similar to a cough. a green laser captures the droplets in the air. the professors aren't so concerned about the big droplets that fall to the ground. it's the smaller aerosolized droplets that linger in the air that pose the greatest risk. to simulate the real world, the scientists use a plexiglas screen similar to those found in many offices, retail stores, nail salons and airports nationwide. when the mannequin coughs, the screen traps most of the larger particles so the person on the other side may avoid a direct hit. but those smaller aerosolized particles still ascape, around the sides and over the top. >> they're not 100%, the passage of the droplet to the other
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side. but it reduces the number that goes through. >> this professor says the screens reduce the droplet concentration by about 80%, so the viral load is much lower. and the cough stream may not go as far with the screen. when we visited this lab earlier in the pandemic to test the power of a cough without a plexiglass screen, droplets travelled as far as 12 feet with nothing to stop them. but even with the screen, lighter aerosolized droplets can accumulate in the air. >> they can linger for seven, eight minutes. >> reporter: the professors found masking can help stop the spread when used along with the plexiglas screen, but it has to be a high quality mask. when we tried a simple cloth mask, this happened. >> 3, 2, 1. >> reporter: most of the droplets got through. and while the screens can help protect you, the professor says too many of them in one room can block airflow and put people at
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risk. now, this type of setup simulates an office environment. it's a plexiglass desk with three sides. you might also find this in the classroom. the question is, if somebody coughs, will it stop the spread? so, let's turn out the lights and find out. the three-sided screen helps contain a significant portion of the droplets. most swirl within. >> so, the screen also slows down the force of the cough jet. >> yeah, exactly. >> reporter: still, he warns if the air in the room is flowing toward the source of the cough, there could be a back draft effect. in that case, the virus trapped behind the desk would be pusd further backward toward those seated behind the person who coughed. with the workplace desk setup, we tried a high quality n95 mask to see if it helped. the droplets went straight up in the air through the small gap in the bridge of the nose. proof a well-fitted mask is key. droplets going up is better than
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them being propelled forward, right? that shows that that n95 made the difference. >> yeah, it does make a difference. >> randi joins us now. with all that said, do the professors recommend these plexiglass screens? >> well, anderson, they think they have potential, but they certainly think more testing needs to be done because in that lab they work in, it's a very controlled environment. nobody moves during those tests. but in the real world, people would be moving around in a workplace. they would be moving around in a retail store. so, the airflow would change. the course of the airflow would change in that environment. also the droplets would behave differently in that environment. that's why they want to do more testing in the real world. overall they think the screens are a good idea as long as they are built properly. professor dannic thinks they need to be at least three feet high. and for all this to work well, in the real world, he says we really need four things. we need good ventilation, masking. even though those screens are being used.
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the desks need to be spread out and staggered in the room, and of course some very well designed plexiglas screens. >> thanks. we still have much more ahead, including an update to capitol hill. which aides are talking to the january 6th committee and we know about their testimony. the lexus rx. built for modern families. get $1,500 lease cash toward a 2022 rx 350. if you have type 2 diabetes or high blood pressure... ...you're a target for... ...chronic kidney disease. you can already have it and not know it. if you have chronic kidney disease... ...your kidney health... ...could depend on what you do today. ♪far-xi-ga♪ farxiga is a pill that works... ...in the kidneys to help slow the progression of chronic kidney disease. farxiga can cause... ...serious side effects including dehydration,... ...urinary tract or genital yeast infections... ...in women and men,... ...and low blood sugar. ketoacidosis is a serious side effect...
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