that's it for me tonight. i will be back bright and early in the morning. the news continues to let's turn things over to don and "don lemon tonight." this is "don lemon tonight." we have breaking news. new revelations about the plot to overturn our free and fair election. the plot that exploded into violence at the united states capitol on january 6th. now, i have said it before. that was the most visible part, right? but there was a lot more to it. and tonight, we have new details from the fake electors -- that part of the plot -- this time, in wisconsin. one of the wannabe electors

bragging on his podcast about how supersecret it all was. >> it is all supersecret for security reasons so we met in secret location. we waited for almost an hour, before they took us to the state capitol. >> lots of secrets there, right? and going on to lay out how they thought they could get their ballots counted instead of the ones from the legitimate electors. >> in the event that something would transpire legally here where the outcome in wisconsin would be reversed, then our ballots would be sent to washington, d.c. and those would be the ballots that get counted. >> they really thought it would be that simple. just send your fake ballots to washington, d.c., and they'll get counted. and there is news on the criminal investigation in georgia of the then-president's efforts to overturn the election results there. fulton county district attorney fanny willis warning she's not playing games. >> this is a criminal investigation. we are not here playing a game.

i plan to use, um, the power of the law. we are all citizens. um, mr. trump, just as every other american citizen, is entitled to dignity, he is entitled to be treated fairly. he will be treated fairly in this jurisdiction. but i plan to do my job, and my job is to make sure that we get the evidence that gives us the truth. um, i'm not concerned at all about games to delay this. >> and the outrage is growing over the rnc's completely anti-american -- because that's what it is -- anti-american claim that what happened on january 6th was -- their words -- legitimate political discourse. i defy them to call this legitimate political discourse. there's new video from the doj showing a former police officer who -- former police officer who, quite frankly, honestly, has become ale really good friend of mine and that's michael fanone. showing him being attacked by a crowd, and stabbed with a stun gun.

mike's going to be here in just a minute. we are going to talk all about that. and then, there is this. a former marine -- his name is ryan nichols -- facing eight criminal charges, including assaulting officers with pepper spray. he's pleaded not guilty. but listen to him blatant -- blatantly threatening then-vice president mike pence. we are not bleeping the profanity, by the way, because need to hear this as it happened. you need to hear what they're calling legitimate political discourse. >> and if you are a patriot, then get onboard. and if you are not, then get the fuck out of my way! because i will drag your fucking ass through the street. you want it? you fucking got it. so, let me find out, pence. let me find out myself that you treasoned the country, we'll fucking drag your ass, too. >> legitimate political discourse.

that's what they are calling legitimate political discourse. ted cruz still trying to defend the indefensible tonight. telling reporters, and i am quoting here, my take is the press continues to politicize attack on people engaged in peaceful free speech. there is no doubt that there were tens of thousands of people engaged in peaceful free speech that the press and democrats tried to demonize falsely. peaceful free speech, like this. >> so, let me find out, pence. let me find out myself that you treason the country. we'll fucking drag your ass, too. >> and remember, just last month when ted cruz told the truth calling january 6th a violent terrorist attack. and then, got his head handed to him on tv by tucker carlson. but i will digress. there are, however, some republicans who are standing up for the truth. notably, mitt romney, who is telling cnn that he texted his

niece, ronna mcdaniel, who just happens to be the chair of the rnc, to express his point of view. >> it could not have been a -- a more inappropriate message. um, one, to sanction two people of character as they did. but number two, to suggest that a violent attack on the seat of democracy is legitimate political discourse is -- is so far from accurate as to shock and -- and make people wonder what we're thinking. >> we have got more on all of this tonight and it comes as president joe biden meets with germany's leader. as russian troops are massed at ukraine's border. biden vowing if vladimir putin invades ukraine, there will be swift and severe consequences, including shutting down the multibillion-dollar nord stream 2 russian gas pipeline. >> if russia invades, that means

tanks or troops crossing the -- the -- the border of ukraine. again, then there will be -- we -- there will be no longer a nord stream 2. we will bring an end to it. >> for more on president joe biden's warning to russia, i want to bring in now cnn white house correspondent mj lee and senior fellow at the council on foreign relations, max boot. good evening to both of you. mj, let's go to you for reporting now. president biden warning vladimir putin it would be a gigantic mistake if russia invades ukraine. what else did he have to say? >> you know, this is a message that we have been hearing from president biden for a while now, essentially trying to tell moscow, trying to tell vladimir putin that if you were to invade ukraine, the severe -- the severity of the consequences would be extremely great. and this is something that we saw him trying to stress after and before this bilateral meeting that he had with the german chancellor. the other thing that he was

clearly trying to -- to stress in this setting was that the u.s. and germany are on a united front in dealing with these issues. and the reason that he is talking about this so much and with so much emphasis is because there have been some questions about germany's sort of commitment to having a forceful reaction and response if russia were to invade. and the nord stream 2 pipeline issue is clearly going to remain a sticking point. we saw that there was a difference in the way that president biden talked about this issue. saying, explicitly, again that if there were an invasion, that this pipeline would not move forward. though, obviously, he couldn't say with specificity, how the u.s. can ensure that. whereas, when the spotlight turned back on the german chancellor, he wouldn't make that specific commitment. he just sort of reverted back to broader statements about there being a united front. but this is going to raise and continue to not answer questions about how really united that front is if the german

chancellor is not willing to make this specific commitment even when he was pressed multiple times on this, don. >> max, let's bring you in. president biden put his full support behind germany. but the german chancellor wouldn't explicitly say, as mj just said, that he would agree to shutting down the pipeline. let's listen and then i will have you respond. >> will you commit today to turning off and pulling the plug on nord stream 2? you didn't mention it. you haven't mentioned it. >> as i already said, we are acting together. we are absolutely united. >> why won't you explicitly say russia, if you invade ukraine, we are cancelling the pipeline? >> we are doing much more as one step. we are -- in all the steps we will take, we will do together. >> that's -- why won't he say what president biden is saying so definitively? >> well, it's a tough issue for germany, don, because germany gets more than half of its natural gas from russia. this was one of the big mistakes that angela merkel, the previous

chancellor, made was shutting down germany's nuclear industry which made them more reliant on russia. and so, just shutting off that gas is gone na be a big economi problem for germany, especially in the middle of the winter. but i like what biden is doing, which is to try to bring germany along in praising them in public while twisting arms in private, which is very different from what the previous-u.s. president did. i have to say, it's a real relief, don, to have a u.s. president, once again, who doesn't trash our allies. and it's not always possible to get on the exact same page but i think that president biden is largely doing the right thing, which is trying to mobilize a solid coalition of european states and the united states to make clear to putin that there will be devastating economic consequences to an invasion of ukraine. and i think, you know, biden has done some other things that i think are very positive, such as calling out possible russian provocations. leaking information about how

russia might start a war. this is actually a very effective information operation on our part to preempt any kind of maneuver that the russians might make. >> max, the pentagon says russia has well over 100,000 troops on the ukraine border. president biden telling americans to get out of the area. uh, listen. i -- i don't know what's going to happen but had a bad feeling about this all along. is diplomacy failing here? >> clearly, diplomacy is failing. and i think it's failing for one reason only, don, which is that vladimir putin is showing no interest in a negotiative settlement to this crisis that he has created out of cloth. and ultimately is going to be up to putin to decide if there is war or peace in ukraine because this is entirely under his control. there is no provocation on the part of the u.s. there is no provocation on the part of ukraine or nato. this is all a crisis created by russia and it's going to be up to putin to see how he resolves it. and so far, he has not been

interested in a diplomatic off ramp. and i agree with you, this is a very dangerous, very menacing development as russia continues to build up their forces for a possible invasion of ukraine. >> mac, mj, thank you, both, appreciate it. even after everything we all saw on january 6th, new videos of the violence that day are shocking. i am going to talk to former-police officer michael fanone about what happened to him in that crowd of rioters. new video. do you struggle with occasional nerve aches in your hands or feet? try nervivenerve relief

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let's talk about legitimate political discourse. have a seat, everyone. have a seat. okay? because i just want you to experience this with your own eyes. more than 140 republican leaders condemning the rnc tonight for censuring liz cheney and adam kinzinger, and calling the january 6th attack on the capitol legitimate political discourse. this coming, as the justice department releases new video from the insurrection that i have to warn you is very disturbing. here it is. so, that high heighted part in the middle that you see right there, that's former-officer michael fanone, who was pulled into the mob.

he was tased in the neck. in what world is that labeled legitimate political discourse? it is a brutal assault. so joining me now, former-d.c. metropolitan mifr, michael fanone. he is now a cnn law enforcement analyst. good to have you on. sorry, that you keep having to talk about this but here we are, mike. this new video shows the horror that you experienced on january 6th. the rnc now is saying that legitimate political discourse was not referring to the people who committed violence. but do you believe that? >> absolutely not. i didn't experience any political discourse on january 6th. what i experienced was a violent assault carried out by supporters of the former president, incited by the former president. um, yeah. >> yeah. you know, um, congressman adam kinzinger, who was censured by

the rnc for serving on the january 6th select committee, trying to get to the truth. i want you to listen to what he said. this is on cnn earlier today about where we are as a country, mike. here it is. >> to think that, someday, some militia shows up somewhere to do something, and then some countermilitia shows up and truly, at that point, that's how you end up in a civil war. you fear potentially there could be a civil war here in the united states? >> i do. and i -- and a year ago, i would have said no, not a chance. but i have come to realize that when we don't see each other as fellow americans, when we begin to separate into cultural identities, when we begin to basically give up everything we believe so we can be part of a group. and then, when you ehave leader that come and abuse that faithfulness of that group to violent ends as we saw on january 6th. we would be naive to think it's not possible here. >> and listen. proof of that is rioters really

believe the lies, first of all, that they were being fed. and now, this is -- we even have trump raising the idea of mass protests in his name. do you share the congressman's concerns? >> absolutely. i mean, i have a great deal of respect for adam kinzinger, liz cheney for stepping out. um, you know, out of line with their -- their party's position on january 6th. i also see it as inevitable, you know, their initial response was to accept the reality of that day. you saw people like mitch mcconnell and, um, kevin mccarthy call out donald trump and his responsibility and role that he played in the insurrection at the capitol on january 6th. and then, that gradually merged into whitewashing of the events. and when it was -- when the conclusion was made that they could no holonger whitewash the

events, now they have begun to accept them and own them. and you've seen what i described earlier today as the rnc becoming the political wing of the oath keepers, three percenters, and the proud boys. the statement made by ronna mcdaniels is outrageous. it's absolutely absurd. it's stupid and she should resign immediately. in fact, i would call upon her to resign today. um, otherwise, you know, except the reality that the republican party is no longer the party of -- or at least could call itself the party of law and order. um, they are the party of insurrectionists, seditionists, and violent assaulters of police officers who were simply upholding their oath, and protecting the capitol and

the -- the members of congress who were trying to certify the election. >> mike, let me just -- because you're calling on the head of the rnc to resign. do you understand the weight of that? because there -- it's going to say, um, january 6th hero officer, michael fanone, calls on -- um -- ronna mcdaniel to resign. that is gonna -- that carries a lot of weight. it is going to get a lot of pickup. are you sure about what you are saying? >> i'm just michael fanone. i was a d.c. metropolitan police officer that responded to the capitol of my own accord. i went there to protect my fellow officers, members of congress, and staff. and also, to protect the institution of congress. um, and uphold my oath. she's violated hers. the fact that she's the head of the rnc and allowed that statement to go forward, the buck stops with her.

she shouldn't hold that office. >> i want you to look, again, mike, at the -- this video. it's former marine ryan nichols. he is using a canister of what prosecutors say is pepper spray against officers. he is also heard in another video going after the former vice president and i have to warn you, the language here, very offensive. here it is. >> we're going to drag motherfuckers through the streets. you fucking politicians are going to get drug through the streets because we are not going to have our shit stolen. this is the second revolution. we are here to take it back from you. cut the head off. >> i mean, it's -- they -- these rioters were hellbent on attacking the former vice president. now, pence came out and said trump was wrong, and he could not overturn the election. is that at least a step in the

right direction? especially, when you hear someone like that guy? at least mike pence -- at least he -- you know, is saying the right things. >> yeah. 13 months later. no. mike pence is unfit to serve the american people. he should just drift away into obscurity. um, i'm not interested in hearing his thoughts or opinions on whether or not he could overturn the election results. i think, you know, he is looking to salvage what is left of his political career and his reputation. um, 'cause he knows that in -- inevitably, history is gonna take a big shit on his head. >> michael fanone, the -- we love -- we like you because we love your candor. and you are who you are. thank you. irappre i appreciate it, mike. >> thanks, don. the white house says wear

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it's wireless that does it all and saves a lot. like a lot, a lot. so i just want to say something about the last segment with former-officer michael fanone said. i do appreciate his candor. i don't agree with his words about the former vice president.

it was in the moment. i just did not know how to respond. look, he is free to think what he wants. he went through an insurrection. we did not. he fought for democracy and to save lives. so, he could say what he wants to say. he is free to. and i agree that he can say what he wants to say, and i think that we love him for his candor. i just don't necessarily agree with the language. so, let's move on now. talk about covid cases plunging from their january peak across the u.s. down 43% since last week. the good news has some governors taking matters into their own hands as they look past the pandemic. today, democratic governors in connecticut, new jersey, oregon, and delaware, all, backing plans to end mask mandates in schools in the near future. and in california, governor gavin newsom announcing an end to the statewide indoor mask mandate in just over a week, on february 15th. but if you are unvaccinated, newsom says you still need a mask, so joining me now to discuss, andy slavitt, he is former senior covid adviser to the biden white house.

and author of "preventable, the inside story of how leadership failures, politics, and selfishness doomed the u.s. coronavirus response." andy, thank you. glad you are joining us to dechelp us talk about this. these governors are moving ahead in their own -- vaccination rates are high in these states but the white house still has not put out guidelines for how states should transition out of these restrictions. is it time for the dmijds to put up -- put a plan out there? >> the facts are great. we are headed in the right direction, as he i think we hoped we would be but we still have 300,000 cases now across the country. that's the highest since -- that's higher than any peak prior to omicron. so, we still have a lot of cases. i think the governors are hoping that cases continue to drop over the course of february and march, and that during that time period, there is an end in sight at least for now to some restrictions. these are very responsible governors. they have got great vaccination

rates. um, and i think we all hope that they are right. but -- but it is going to have -- we are going to have to wait and see until we get to march to know if that is right. as for now, i particularly, personally, will be wearing a mask indoors because i still don't want to catch a highly contagious disease even though i am vaccinated and protected from something serious. >> earlier today on cnn, jersey governor phil murphy was asked what factors he was looking at when making the decision to end school masking next month. here it is. >> a number of factors are case -- case count, hospitalizations, the spot positivity rate, the rate of transmission are all dropping like a rock, number one. number two, we are making progress with vaccinations of newly-eligible groups, including kids. three, we're optimistic that the under-5 group of kids will soon become eligible. fourthly, we know we have a little bit more latitude four

weeks from now when this will be lifted in terms of -- of a hitle bit better weather and ventilation options. you put all that together, you analyze those data streams and realities it's pretty clear that this, in our judgment, is the right, responsible step to take. >> so, do these sound like reasonable metrics for loosening restrictions? should the white house follow this? >> well, look. if you are a governor, good news is few and far between and governor murphy is one of the best. he is -- he is a friend. he is incredibly thoughtful. um, he is indeed right that things are headed the right direction. i also know that when things have turned course, and things have not turned out to be as good as expected if we get another bump, we get another wave, we get another variant, you know, he will be -- he will level with his state, level with the public. and -- and change course. i think what the cdc is going to do is they are going to continue to look at the case count. right now, they are right. it's far too early for them to

say that it's time to change course. we still have 300,000 cases. but i do think if we do continue to see what governor murphy predicts, then as we get further into the spring, you will see the cdc start to take action. now, remember, every time they take action, they get criticized because they'll say take off masks and then five or six months later, something will happen and someone will say, ah-ha they were wrong. so, they have got to do it just when it's right, not try to jump the gun. >> looming over all this, andy, is the fear that another dangerous variant could pop up. how important is it to give people a break from the restrictions when cases are as -- as low, right, so that they are not worn out when you really need to buy in -- the buy-in from everyone. remember, you know, before omicron, hike in the summer, right? people were -- you -- let -- let go of the restrictions for masks outdoors. and -- and so on and so forth. and then, we got this omicron

variant. so how -- should you let up when things -- when cases are low? >> oh, absolutely. if i told you with certainty that there would be another wave next winter, and that we would have a mild spring or fall and most of the -- in most of the country, spring, summer, and fall. um, and i said, gee, you should -- you should wear your masks until next winter. that would be -- that would be really bad advice. um, so we know how to prepare for these waves when they -- when they hit. we know how to, um, increasing the number of tools. i think we still have to talk to the public about the fact that the pandemic isn't over and more variants are possible, and what to do in those scenarios but that's more about keeping the public prepared and keeping our country prepared. but in the meantime, i think we are all hopeful that the spring and the summer and most the country can be quite positive. particular hi, if yvaccinated a boosted. if you are not, then i think more dangers are -- are around. >> yeah, i hope people are listening. we appreciate your expertise. thank you, andy. thanks so much.

so, um, we're going to have another conversation that is tough like we had last week in regards to whoopi, right? and apologizing. joe rogan has apologized, again. this time, for a series of comments that some deem as racist slurs, as a matter of fact, the n-word. he used it a lot. stay with us. prilosec otc prevents excess acid production that can cause heartburn. so don't fight heartburn, block it with prilosec otc. (vo) what makes my heart beat? having everything i want in the place i love. jamaica. heartbeat of the world. let's go!

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okay. it's time for the conversation that i promised that we would have. we had it about whoopi. now, we are going to have it about joe rogan because spotify's joe rogan problem, they ever one. it just keeps growing. neil young encouraging spotify employees to quit. here is what he says. to the musicians and creators in this world i say this. you must be able to find a better place than spotify to be the home of your art. to the workers at spotify, i say daniel ech is your problem, not joe rogan.

he pulls the strings. get out of that place before it eats up your soul. we turn now to cnn's brooirn stelter for the very latest on this. but i have to warn you, there will be some disturbing language ahead. here it is. >> i never used it to be racist because i'm not racist. but whenever you're in a situation where you have to say i'm not racist, you [ bleep ] up and i clearly have [ bleep ] up. >> reporter: joe rogan's apology tour continues. this time, for repeatedly using the n-word on his popular podcast. and staffers at his distributor, spotify, are furious. >> look. i can't go back in time, and change what i have said. i wish i could. obviously, that's not possible. but i do hope that this can be a teachable moment. for anybody that doesn't realize how offensive that word can be coming out of a white person's mouth, in context or out of

context. >> reporter: the roots of this controversy go way back. >> 270 health experts are calling on spotify to take action. >> reporter: anti-vaccine falsehoods on rogan's show put a harsh spotlight on spotify last month. causing musicians like neil young to speak out. what's strange is that rogan started the pandemic by touting the value of vaccines. >> there's so many whackos out there that think vaccines are a scam or they're dangerous. >> reporter: but he later changed his tune. >> so, would you now, with what you know now, and -- and the having had covid, would you have -- would you have bwished you had opinion vaccinated beforehand? >> no, i got vaccinated. >> you got through it. >> but i got through covid pretty quickly. >> yeah. >> a group of doctors have been cal calling rogan out and neil young and joan kblichle followed by yanking their music off the streaming giant. with pressure mounting, spotify announced it would add content

advisories to podcast episodes, including rogan's, that discussed the pandemic. rogan's fans rallied to his defense. >> one of the most popular podcasts in the world. >> reporter: but there was more to come. a twitter account tied to a liberal super pac compiled a video of rogan saying the n-word, over and over again on past episodes. >> you know, the nigger thing. >> saying the word [ bleep ]. >> a few days later, singer india ari helped it go viral. >> i want to be clear, in no uncertain terms, where i stand on this is that he shouldn't even be uttering the word. >> reporter: delete spotify, she added and she is not the only one saying so. the company, now under tremendous scrutiny, because it paid a reported $100 million for the exclusive rights to his show. rogan's saturday apology video was not enough for employees. sunday night, ceo daniel ek he hears their concerns but doesn't believe silencing rogan is the

answer. quote, we have should clear lines around content, and take action when they are crossed but cancelling voices is a slippery slope. ek also announcing spotify will commit 100 million to make and buy and market content from historically marginalized groups. will a payoff be enough to satisfy performers, employees, and subscribers? >> brian stelter is here with me now. brian, thank you for joining us. listen, i have to say what struck me here, and i just want people -- i agree with joe rogan. and i mean, the joe rogan in the apology. right? this is -- because -- and i want everybody, joe rogan's supporters and his critics to listen to what he said. he said, whatever you're -- whenever you're in a situation where you have to say i'm not racist, you effed up. now, he said even the clips for him was hard for him to hear and the word is offensive coming out of the mouths of white people. i agree with that part of it. i don't think joe rogan should be cancelled. but i think people do have the

right to criticize him, as they have the right to criticize you. they have a right to criticize me. and as they have a right to question cnn about that. there is going to be a lot more questions for spotify is what i am getting to. >> there are. and i think we are very much in this -- this period of limbo, where we are going to find out are the employees satisfied with the answers? are subscribers satisfied? we don't know, don. are a lot of subscribers cancelling spotify? or does nobody really care? spotify knows joe rogan's podcast is hurtful. but gosh, there is money to be made. and this is ultimately about money. but it is also about editorial and about what values you want to portray through your content. spotify could very well say, you know, we are going to have a little bit more -- we're going -- we're going -- right now, they don't have any involvement. they could say we are going to have a little bit of involvement to help make sure your program's not just entertaining and crude and provocative and whatever. we are actually going to make sure someone's involved and helping you make the best version of yourself. and make sure you don't repeat the mistakes you made in the past. that's not cancel culture.

that's the way to improve the content, improve the quality. that seems to me to be the way forward. >> listen. i think that, you know, we should be having these conversations because everyone is in their own silos, and i would love to have a conversation with joe rogan. love for him to come on the show -- on this show. i would even go on his show, and speak to him about -- >> well, that's news. >> yeah, i would because i think -- i thought it his -- um, look, you have to look at intent. intentionality is important. >> right. >> you also have to look at the history of a person. it is the same thing with mike pence. um, you know, mike pence for a lot of people didn't do -- was -- he wasn't saying the right things but he did, when he had to, he did the right things and now he is finally saying it. so i think it is important for us in this time to meet people where they are, and have these conversations. hold them to task if you don't agree with them, you tell them. and so, i think it's -- i would love to have a conversation with him. i really would because i think that, um, when you -- this is -- why do white people feel that they have to say this word?

why do they have to? and i think joe rogan is getting at that, and he finally understands that you don't have to say that word. that word is very charged. it has a -- an extremely heavy history. why do you feel the need to say it? you have -- okay, black folks can say it. women call each other skinny bs all the time. doesn't mean i have to call them that. but they are comfortable saying you are a skinny b. right? there is a drink called a skinny b. i am not going to call a woman that but they are free to use that language, because they are -- they're in on the joke. you understand what i am saying? >> yeah, but you are saying the evolution of rogan is interesting. his evolution is the interesting part and that's what we should explore. and whether, you know, he does it on his podcast or not, i hope his fans can hear about it. cancel culture is often this very blunt instrument, this black-or-white thing, when all the interesting stories are in the gray area. >> i don't -- and i actually don't believe cancel culture. i think people use that because they want to be able to say racist or bigoted or sexist or homophobic things with immunity, right? it's about consequences and i

think people who really -- um, if you make a mistake and you really apologize or if you are -- if you are not -- if your intent wasn't to harm people, i do think that there is redemption. and i think that. but if you lean into it, and you don't believe you did something wrong or if you have malicious intent and your history shows -- then, that'sen issue but i believe in consequences. i got to run because i have a special guest on the other side. india is here. she is pulling her music from spotify. i can't wait to hear what she has to say. she doesn't think, though, that joe rogan should be cancelled. hi, india. we will talk to you on the other side. i see inspiration right through my glass. so when my windshield cracked, i chose safelite. they replaced the glass and recalibrated my safety system. that's service i can trust. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

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♪ grammy award winning musician india.arie takes music off spotify after racist language was used by joe rogan, but she's not asking for him to be canceled. singer song writer joins me now. india, i loved you since the moment i met you. not -- meaning your music. thanks for joining us, you have a nuanced perspective about this and really respect it. you say joe rogan has spurred the protest but it's not about him. what is it about? >> i love you, too, you're about to make me cry playing that in my intro. it's about confluence of energies.

because there is joe rogan, insensitive language around race, there is that. also spotify and their treatment of artists and there's that. i knew about joe rogan's insensitive comments about race before. i'm a podcast listener and heard many episodes. when i learned of the language, i tuned it out but brought into my world as artist, a working musician, want to get into that tonight, i hope, as working musician always had issues with spotify, now the joe rogan thing and can't -- he's not the reason but the final reason. >> you were a listener and started tuning out. you held your hand up, said you have issue with spotify, you have this and -- what do you mean by that. explain to the viewer. >> i feel like the average person confuses the culture --

i'll hold my hand up again, my opinions are nuanced, human beings are. average person confuses celebrity culture with being a working musician. everybody's not on tmz arguing about their kids, that's celebrity culture. avast majority of working musicians, write and produce the songs, multiple people behind all music you hear, even in commercials, multiple people make that music. your favorite songs, kids' songs, "baby shark," somebody wrote all of that stuff and there's been ongoing arguments and trials about now with the digital streaming platforms how these working artists, us, are paid. it's so low and they say that's just how it is. all right, we need to do more

touring. covid hit, touring went away. that's another nuance. it's something we've lived with for long time. trial coming up, still ongoing, how to get the rate to be more fair for a working musician, there's that conversation. then spotify comes in, big payment to this guy that a lot of people find offensive. doesn't matter what his name is. we also find our lack of pay offensive. that is a different conversation. i can tune out on joe rogan, i don't just not listen, but if you bring it into my world, i have to say something. hope that was clear. >> would it help if joe rogan was ally to the musicians, he makes a lot of money, maybe he can join forces with you to help you get where you want, maybe

happy medium since he's highest paid, either him or meghan ore the obamas, not sure. about what do you think? >> would be a beautiful thing, beautiful when people are allies for each other any realm. i don't expect that, but i have to say i think he did fine job with his apology, said a lot of the things i would want to hear someone said. what stuck out most when he said it's not my word to use. >> right. >> and i think changed behavior is what we're looking for. if it went to allyship, would be wonderful but changed behavior would be wonderful, too. >> before you go, you said it's not our word to use. i always wonder why so many people want to use that word.

especially it seems -- he said white people. find a lot of white guys feel like it's their right to use that word. why can't i use that word, i'm entitled to use it. do you understand? why do you want to say the word? if you want to, say it, but then suffer the consequences of actually saying the word. >> that's it right there. if you're asking me why, i feel like a lot of it has to do with popular culture. this is now another nuanced conversation. it's in a lot of the music. that's why i think it's important for him to say it's not my word to use. i have whole other conversation about it being in the music. anybody who knows my music knows i have strong values, every song, eight albums, always have. you can imagine where i stand with the use of the word, but also stand in solidarity with the black community, i understand historically why we use it. but explaining that to everyone all the time is not where i want

to be, should be able to say just don't. also like i don't think joe rogan is racist for using it, he's insensitive for using it. just don't, you know? >> you are light, and i hope this conversation helps. again, i love you. i think you're amazing for -- you put yourself out there. one of the only people to come out and do that. so i appreciate you. >> thank you. >> hope everyone else stands in your light and would love for joe rogan to become an ally, you should talk. >> would like that. >> thanks india. >> thank you. >> be well. >> you, too. gigantic mistake, president biden's message to vladimir putin, next. this... is the planning effect. this is how it feels to know you have a wealth plan that covers everything that's important to you. this is what it's like to have a dedicated fidelity advisor

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