well, that's it for us tonight. i will be back tomorrow. "don lemon tonight," of course, with don lemon, starts right now. >> how do you qualify this one? because remember, last time, it was lock her up! but her e-mail. so, is this one but his toilet? i mean -- >> do you know how many times i have been trying to avoid puns all day today? you really -- you cannot help but step right in it all day. i am challenging you to how many times you are going to have to step right in it, and go flushing down the drain and circle -- everything is going to be a problem, everything. >> yeah. well, how does the thing go? ♪ but away those troubles down the drain ♪ >> that wasn't draino, what was that? roto rooter. that was roto rooter!

that's the name and away those troubles down the drain. >> look, don lemon can sing, everybody. you are pretending now but i have heard you sing and i am like don lemon. >> we were sanging just before the show to get up our energy, everybody in the studio. young and pretty, new york city girl. that is laura coates right there. except for the new york city part. >> oh, that's my mantra. i love it. okay. i will do it. >> here is the thing, though. we are joking around about it but every day, we up the ante. it was classified. now, it is top secret. and it is just so much hypocrisy, so much irony in all of this. i wonder, when does it end? maybe, it never ends. maybe it just never ends. >> well, i got to tell you, i mean, sometimes i think to myself if this were a show -- a show that wasn't the news, like a series -- i would be like this -- this -- this can't be the case. this -- this can't be that, you know, you turn the station but you realize, no, this is actually what is happening. and i am telling you the january 6th committee -- i can't imagine what they are thinking, and what they're trying to decipher. i am waiting for those public

hearings and all that synthesis of what they have actually found. i -- i want to know. >> yeah. jump the toilet. thank you, laura. >> toilet. good night. >> i will see you tomorrow. i will see you tomorrow. thanks so much. before we start, i just want to say congratulations to my colleague anderson cooper. so happy for you. so now, i am getting all these texts and e-mails -- when are you? are you next? thanks, anderson. congratulations. we are really happy for you. so let's start the program now. this is "don lemon tonight." thank you so much for joining us. an hours-long gap in white house' phone log -- the white house' phone logs, an hours-long gap. documents reportedly and repeatedly -- we were just talking about -- laura and i -- flushed down the toilet. classified information. classified information, including documents marked top secret, taken to mar-a-lago down south to palm beach, instead of where they're supposed to be, right, with the archives. just another day in the trump

white house. records shmecords, everyone. not surprising. should be surprising but it is shocking that he gets away with so much. norms busted all over the place. sources telling the wash post tonight, some of the white house documents the former president improperly took with him to mar-a-lago when he left washington in disgrace, some of those documents were clearly marked as classified, including some at the top-secret level. and "the post" is reporting that, though it is not clear exactly who packed those boxes, the former president was very secretive about the packing and didn't want anyone to take a look or aides or anyone to look at those boxes. national archives asking the doj to investigate. and what about the gap in the white house' phone logs? what about that? call records now in possession of the committee investigating january 6th show no record of calls to or from the then-president from the time he returned to the white house after his speech at the rally at the ellipse. watch.

>> and we fight. we fight like hell and if you don't fight like hell, you are not going to have a country anymore. >> that is his taped rose garden statement. roll it. >> go home. we love you. you're very special. you have seen what happens. you've seen the way others are treated that are so bad and so evil. i know how you feel. >> he knows how you feel. sources say the committee hasn't drawn any final conclusions about the gap in the records. they say maybe personal cell phones were being used? which was common in the trump white house, right? after so much consternation about using personal devices with the candidate hillary clinton. so maybe, personal phone -- cell phones were used or maybe the archives will find more records. okay? but the gap raises a lot of questions because if there is one thing we know about the former president, it -- it is

that his phone calls are perfect. remember that perfect call with the president of ukraine? the one, that led to his first impeachment? and remember what he said about hillary clinton? >> people who have nothing to hide don't smash phones with hammers. they don't. people who have nothing to hide don't bleach. nobody's ever heard of it. don't bleach their e-mails or destroy evidence to keep it from being publicly archived as required under federal law. >> people with nothing to hide don't flush papers down the toilet. what about her e-mails? what about her e-mails? what about his phone calls? what about his phone calls? where is the like big front-page news above the fold? where is that?

and then, there is maggie haberman reporting in her new book "confidence man, the making of donald trump and the breaking of america." title that really says it all. the staff in the white house during the former administration say they periodically found wet-printed paper flushed down the toilet in the white house. would you be surprised to hear that the former president denies it all? he put out a statement just today calling the story, quote, categorically untrue and simply made up by a reporter in order to get publicity for a mostly fictitious book. he also claims that he turned over those 15 boxes of documents to the national archives, quote, easily and without conflict and on a very friendly basis. nothing to see here, people. but why were they there, in the first place? but as he fights the january 6th committee at every turn, vice president liz cheney in a "wall street journal" op-ed saying this, those who do not wish the

truth of january 6th to come out, claiming it is tainted and political. our hearings will show this -- our hearings will show this charge to be wrong. we are focused on facts, not rhetoric and we will present those facts without exaggeration no matter what criticism we face. but there are plenty of republicans who aren't showing that kind of courage. there is nancy mays trying to crawl back to the man at mar-a-lago even though the day after the a i tack on the capitol, she told cnn quote his entire legacy was wiped out yesterday. she said he should held -- he should be held accountable for his actions. she said that she was speaking out strongly against the then president. >> i want to be a new voice for the republican party, and that's one of the reasons i have spoken out so strongly against the president, against these qanon-conspiracy theorists that led us in a constitutional crisis. it is just wrong and we got to put a stop to it. >> we need that little thing like -- like the tape going forward. fast forward to today.

in the wake of former president's endorsement of her primary opponent, nancy mays stood outside -- stood up outside of trump tower on fifth avenue in new york city. remember, when he said that he could shoot someone in the middle of fifth avenue and not lose any voters? she stood up, and said this. >> i am in front of trump tower today and in 2015 when president trump announced his run, i was one of his earliest supporters. i actually worked for the campaign in 2016. i worked in seven different states across the country to help get him elected. >> somebody, give her a glass of water. thirsty, thirsty. hitle thirsty. she went on to lavish praise on him, without ever mentioning january 6th and what he did that day. that, as our brand new cnn poll finds a growing number of americans don't think elections today reflect the will of the

people. that's exactly what they are trying to do, right? get people not to trust the process, not to trust institutions over that whole five-year period or six-year period -- the running and then the administration. attacking institutions and norms, the electoral process, and on and on. get people not to trust it, so that they could run rampant and they could lie -- mostly him. but the republican party became him. 56% of respondents say that they have little or no confidence our elections reflect the will of the people. that's exactly what they wanted. and about half think it's likely that the future elections in the united states will be overturned for partisan reasons. sad. let's discuss now, cnn special correspondent, jamie gangel is here. nixon white house counsel john dean. good evening, to both of you. before i talk about the white house, jamie, isn't that exactly what they were trying to do over

the past five years or so? get people not to trust institutions, not to trust the electoral process just to -- because the truth was not on their side, so they had to get people to do that? >> and now, there is a different kind of truth that -- that we have in -- in all of this. um, i just want to say that, today, of all days, i just find it remarkable, maggie haberman's reporting about flushing these papers down because we heard, from day one, that he was ripping up papers that staffers had to run in and get it out of the wastebasket and tape it back together. when -- he knew that. he didn't want people to be taping those papers back together. uh, flushing them down the toilet. we do not know what his intent was. but it certainly was a way to circumvent the system, get around the presidential records

act. and it certainly looks guilty. >> yeah. john, let's talk about this because "the washington post" is reporting that some of the trump' white house records taken to mar-a-lago. they were marked classified, including some top-secret documents. so there is, um, manhandled records, ripped-up records, plus the details that jamie just mentioned out of maggie haberman's new book that documents were numberflushed do toilet. trump denies that but what questions do you have about all of this? why would he be flushing documents? >> it -- it just doesn't sound right, obviously, don. i think it speaks for itself. uh, he's a man who has just ignored all the rules, standards, norms of the process. he doesn't obey the law. he just doesn't give a hoot. he's gonna do what he wants to do when he wants to do it. now, those classified documents could cause him some problem. while he has plenary power, as

president, to declassify or classify material, at 12:00 noon on -- on the 20th of january, he lost that power. so, he was sitting on hot documents down there. and it's a very interesting question. it raises national security issues. so, i think the justice department just can't look away this time. they have got to take at least some look at this issue. >> as a former-white house counsel, john, top secret is no joke. i mean, let's remember jared kushner reportedly couldn't even get top secret security eaeaeae,ntil trump overruled intelligence officials so the idea trump took documents out of the white house to his golf club -- that is no joke. >> that is no joke. that is a -- we have a four-star general, patrias, who damn near got himself a felony but he made a deal for a misdemeanor for letting his biographer look at his classified notebooks.

and that's a pretty -- that could have been a very serious offense. he -- he had to resign from the cia, and it certainly dampened any potential of him becoming president. so, these things do have consequences for most people. >> jamie, talk to us about -- um, i am wondering if this means anything. if it means they were using personal devices? this gap in -- in phone call records, in call records to the then president during the riot. >> so -- so here's -- here's our reporting. what do we know about donald trump? don, he loves to talk on the phone. he was up in the residence every night, normally, talking to -- to people all night long on the phone. what is notable here is, as you said, there is a three-hour plus gap where there do not seem to be any recorded phone calls from the official record. i am not talking about someone calling him and not getting him. i am talking about the kind of phone call where two people were

talking to each other. so, we know there are phone calls during this time. we know that he had a shouting match with kevin mccarthy during the riot. we know that he reached out and reached senator mike lee on his phone. so, why don't the white house official records reflect this? two possibilities. one, you just said. he was using a personal cell phone, which has been a huge problem since day one. or he was using personal cell phones of aides, which he did a lot. dan scavino. one of his body men, nic luna, that was very typical behavior. i just want to repeat what john dean just said about rules. what all of this says is he wasn't following the rules. a former-trump white house official said to me this week, he didn't think the rules m applied to him and that trickled down to everyone around him.

>> and also, there is another possibility that we have to add in there, jamie. they could find more records. right? >> absolutely. there -- there may be more records coming. let me add one other possibility. we have had a lot of reporting that he was transfixed, watching the riot on tv. rewinding the button. >> that nobody could get to him. he didn't talk to anybody. >> correct. and we know, for example, chris christie tried four different ways to reach him and couldn't get through, was told he wasn't available. so, maybe he was just watching tv. >> got ya. john, how does this compare to the missing 18 1/2 minute gap on the nixon-watergate tapes? is that -- is that a fair comparison? or doesn't compare? >> it -- it's a -- it's a tough comparison, first of all, we don't have all the facts on why this information is missing. that is largely a manually constructed log and -- and the president's daily diary, whilst a lot of it today is automated, there is still an archive

staffer who is there assembling that document. so, the 18 1/2 minute gap was just a -- a mistake at the end of a process of producing tapes they said they would produce. the president had just fired the special prosecutor, and then relented and started turning over tapes and, oops, two of them are missing. one's got an 18 1/2 minute gap. the other one happens to be the conversation i said i thought i was recorded on. and they disappear. so, they made a big story but we've never found out the guilty party, who did it. >> um, you know, jamie, i want to ask you since you were talking about the phone and him using, you know, other people -- could the committee end up subpoenaing donald trump's personal phone records? >> this is -- that is a really interesting question. it's been apparent. i really think, for political reasons, going after a former president that they have been reticent to do it. but the chairman of the committee, bennie thompson, has

not ruled it out. and i think -- i think there is a high bar. but if they think there is something incriminating, a smoking gun, i would not rule out that they would look at that. >> all right. thank you, both. i appreciate it. see you soon. be well. news tonight on the death of bob saget. there are very surprising results. surprising results in his autopsy report just revealed. our dr. sanjay gupta is here to talk about it. that's next. ever get a sign the universe is trying to tell you something? the clues are all around us! not that one. that's the one. at university of phoenix, you could earn your master's degree in less than a year for under $11k. learn more at phoenix.edu. (vo) when you are shopping for a new vehicle, how do you know which brand you can trust? with subaru, you get kelley blue book's most trusted brand winner, seven years in a row. in fact, subaru has won most trusted brand

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tonight, we are learning much more about the cause of bob saget's death. the autopsy report showing the actor and comedian died from blunt-head trauma. saying that he likely fell backwards, and struck the back of his head. the report also shows saget tested positive for covid-19 and suffered from an enlarged heart. let's get some insight on this new information from cnn's chief medical correspondent, dr. sanjay gupta. dr. gupta, thank you so much for joining us. what more have we learned from the autopsy documents? >> well, i think, you know, compared to -- to last night, um, we are getting more information act just how significant these injuries were. i mean, this was not sort of a simple bump on the head. you know, there was this sort of concern last night that maybe he hit his head sort of on the headboard of the bed or something like that, didn't recognize the severity of it,

went to sleep, and had this bleeding on his brain. that -- that sequence of events still seems to be plausible. but just the extent of injuries, don, i think is far more than certainly was -- was originally conveyed. let me show you here. we put this together, don, to give you an idea of just how many fractures we are talking about here. as you point out, there was an abrasion on the back of his head and also a fracture on the back of his head. in the yellow, that fracture sort of extended along the right side of his head. but then, he also had fractures on the front just above his eyes, as well. the orbital rims as they are called. let me show you on this, don, if you can see this -- this skull. so, you imagine this. somebody falls, they hit here. abrasion over here. significant blow, though. like, falls down, significant blow, fracture extends into the right side of the head over here. that's all possible from one mechanism. but then, also, fractures in the front over here just above the eyes. if i didn't know anything else about this, um, i would say is

this someone who was unrestrained in a car accident? is this someone who fell down a flight of stairs, for example, or something like that? when we look at this from a -- from a neurosurgical perspective, there is a few different things you are trying to figure out. what was the mechanism of injury? again, fall? car accident? what was it? but also, the energy of the injury. how much energy was actually put on the skull and the brain? and what we can say from that pattern of injuries as outlined in the autopsy report, it was a significant, significant blow to the head. we -- we don't know, again, exactly what caused that. it also does not appear he was on blood thinners, don, something we talked about last night which could make, you know, the bleeding worse. but from that -- that force alone, there was enough to cause fractures of the skull. and bleeding on top of the brain. >> let me just ask you. you said, um, blood thinners. that was the prescription drug he was on. no alcohol in the system, right? just how common is something like this? does it happen often? i asked you that last night but when you look at -- from what

you know today, this sort of, as you said, significant blow. >> it -- this idea that someone was, you know, in a hotel room and sort of slipped and fell or hit their head on something, you know, a cabinet or the headboard or something causing this degree of injury, i think, would be very unusual. again, if there was something elsewhere, you know, he fell flat on his back and on the -- and also on the side of his head, and that caused this pattern of injuries, perhaps. but it also seems like he was at least lucid enough maybe to have even had a conversation, and get into bed after that. so, it's -- it's kind of -- it is a little bit hard to piece together. um, this is certainly someone if he had come into the hospital, to the emergency room, would have, you know, gotten a ct scan and probably, most likely an operation to try and take that pressure off of this. if you look at, you know, these types of head injuries across the board, people have significant head injuries who develop bleeding on top the brain or within the brain, it happens in about a quarter of

the time. but again, this was not -- um -- just a simple blow to the head. i think that that's -- that's what we can say. it -- it was significant. you know, it really was unprotected it seemed blow to the head. maybe, falling straight on his back. but still, how does one get fractures above the -- you know, the orbits over here at the same time? was there some back and forth to the head at that time? it is tough to talk about. it's so sad, don, just the overall, you know, what ever happened here. and we may never know for -- for certain what happened. but this would not be something that you would expect just from, again, a simple blow to the head. something much more significant happened here. >> boy, oh boy. dr. gupta, thank you so much. i appreciate it. >> yeah. thank you. former-president barack obama addressing house democrats behind closed doors today. i am going to speak with someone who was in that meeting -- congressman colin allred, next.

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former-president barack obama holding a private virtual town hall with house democrats today. it comes with president biden's legislative agenda stalled, and worrying ap worrying poll numbers for the party hoping to keep control of congress this fall. joining me to discuss, democratic congressman colin allred, who was part of that meeting. congressman, appreciate you joining. so your party, let's be honest, facing plenty of headwinds right now. cnn's ryan nobles is reporting that president barack obama -- former president -- rallied the troops, encouraging you all to tout your progressive -- your progress, i should say, excuse me, this year. is that the strategy going forward into midterms? >> well, he basically told us we

have to get out of our defensive crouch. we have to talk about what we have done and as our current president would say, don't judge us against the almighty, judge us against the alternative because we have to talk about what is happening on the other side, as well. and, you know, we have done a lot, already, in this year i think to set us up in the position where we now have one of the lowest unemployment, lowest child poverty rates in decades from passing the american rescue plan to the bipartisan infrastructure bill. we have a lot to talk about and a lot to tell people act. but now, we have to kind of stop this back and forth about what we haven't gotten done on voting rights or the build back better bill. we are still going to be fighting for those things. let's talk about what we have done. >> listen because there's been -- you know, there have been a lot of folks in the party who are not necessarily -- um -- you know, touting the -- or at least on the president saying what the president hasn't done for them. he hasn't done this, he hasn't done that. i am wondering, was everyone on the same page? were there any questions for him? >> there are a lot of questions.

but, you know, i think we all know that president obama knows a few things about winning elections. and knows a little bit about running as an incumbent on your record. and so, everybody, i think, was listening with attention and as i said, democrats have a tendency sometimes to talk about all the things we didn't get in a bill, instead of the things we did get in the bill. or the accomplishments that we are still fighting for, instead of the accomplishments we have already achieved and so that's what i think we need to be doing now because we really have done a lot for the american people. and, you know, the reason why you can go to a cvs on the corner store and get your vaccine for free, get your booster shot for free is 'cause of the american rescue plan. we cut child poverty in half with the american rescue plan. we are rebuilding america with a bipartisan infrastructure bill that multiple presidents have fought for years, for decades to try and get and this president did get it and this house did pass it. and so, that is what we need to be talking about and i think we will be speaking more from the same hymnbook on that. but ultimately, it's going to be

ip to the american people, of course. >> you believe that? >> i think so. obviously, we are a big-tent party. we are now, you know, the party i think that has -- we're appealing to the broadest segment. >> i understand that and that is all well and good but you have to win. in order to win, you got to -- you have to tout your accomplishments and democrats, quite honestly, have to fall in line. you believe that everyone is on the same page with this, what the former president said? >> i do. we are getting into the don't agonize, organize phase of this. where now, we recognize and i think -- you know, even some of the most strident voices in our party recognize that we have got to now tout our accomplishments. yes, keep fighting. but let's make sure the american people know what we have done because we really have done a lot and it is hard to break through, and we recognize how frustrating this time is for the american people. we recognize that, you know, i have got two young kids who have had to be home at times because of covid exposures in the classroom. it is a difficult time that we are still in this pandemic. but we are going to get out of it and we are beating it because

of what we have done. and the other side wants to take us in a very different direction. >> did the former president -- did barack obama have anything to say about the current president, president biden? >> oh yeah, of course he did. he -- he talked about how much they have done. i think he -- he referenced the aca fight and how, you know, it took some time for the american people to really understand what was in the affordable care act and how maybe, you know, he wishes that they had done more to tout some of the accomplishments they did with the rescue -- with their rescue plan to get us out of the recession we were in and how they saved the american economy, and how they didn't really tout that until he ran for re-election in 2012. and so, there are some lessons for us to learn from that because sometimes you are so busy governing and doing the job the american people trying to deliver for them that you don't stop and pause, and really tell people what you've done and so they may not know that. and we know with this media environment, don, everything with covid, everything going on around the world, we have to be the ones to carry on that

message. >> congressman, president biden's putting out a new stark warning about ukraine tonight. i want to ask you about that, but listen, first. >> american citizens should leave, should leave now. we are dealing with one of the largest armies in the world. this is a very different situation where things could go crazy quickly. >> congressman, we are seeing russia building up more troops along the border. you were a part of the congressional delegation to ukraine. what's your read on the situation? well, of course, the president is just echoing the state department which has already told americans in ukraine if you are able to, leave. now, most the folks who are still there are dual citizens or live there and so they may not follow that advice. but it is an extremely dangerous position we are in right now. russia is continuing to build up their troop presence around ukraine. they are doing exercises right now with belarus right next to some of our nato allies, who are very nervous about that.

and -- and they're showing, you know, so much aggressive intent and really not giving us much in terms of the diplomatic off ramps we hoped would work. so it is very concerning but we have been very clear with our allies in the eu and am a lies in nato, if russia does this, the consequences for them are going to be so dire, this is going to be a strategic failure for them whether he goes in or not. and i really believe that. whether he crosses that border or not, vladimir putin is going to emerge weaker from this because he united us in a way that, really, no one else could. >> congressman, i want -- i want to talk to you about this new bol cnn has out today. 56% of americans say they have hitle or no confidence american elections will reflect the will of the people. and when you dig in, mistrust among democrats and independents is up by double digits from just a year ago. trump's supporters believe the big lie. but why are democrats growing less confident in elections? >> well, i think they are seeing that we have not been able to

pass legislation to try and protect the right to vote. and they are seeing the ongoing attempts in their states, like my state here in texas, to undermine the right to vote. and so, they are very worried. but, you know, i -- i -- again, come back to this concept that we have to keep fighting for this but we have to organize here and not agonize. we have to do everything we can to understand if they are working this hard to try and make it hard for americans to vote, why -- why are they trying to do that? it's because your vote is so powerful. and i really believe that, together, we can overcome some of these barriers that have been put in place. now, the -- the other issue, of course, i think people are concerned with is election subversion, which means no matter what we do in terms of getting out to vote, they may try and change the result afterwards. and in that case, i do think there is some good news, you know, around the senate negotiations on the electoral count act that i think we will be able to fix that, so that they won't be able to overturn an election say in 2024.

but i have got a lot of legislation i have introduced as part of the senate bill that didn't quite get through. i am hoping we can come back to some of those as individual stand-alones because they should have bipartisan agreement. it is about making sure elections aren't stolen after the fact. that should be an american principle that we all agree on. >> congressman allred, thank you. appreciate it. >> okay. thanks, don. trucker protests in canada disrupting the supply chain, causing manufacturing stalls here in the u.s. but right-wing media here? well, they're egging the protests on. stay with us. ster. designed to style your stubble in one stroke, a pivoting metal head that defines every edge, and three comb lengths for added versatility. one tool that helps you choose, change, and master your style. king c. gillette

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tonight, the ongoing protests by truckers in canada having a serious economic impact -- impact on american workers. the anderson economic group reporting that auto -- the auto industry workers in michigan could lose up to $51 million in wages this week because

protestors are preventing auto parts from crossing the border. so, if american workers are facing financial hardships, why are right-wing commentators here in the u.s. cheering so hard for the protestors? more from cnn's chief media correspondent, brian stelter. >> reporter: fox news not a fan of past occupations. >> the failure. the failure of the occupy wall street movement. >> reporter: but now, when they look north, they love what they see. >> right now, we are being led by canadian truckers. >> reporter: that's will king dissing the u.s., saying canada is acting more freedom loving right now. sounds like a challenge. >> canada's freedom convoy is still going strong tonight, and it is spreading all over the world. >> reporter: now, they are asking where is the american protest? >> the question is how long before protests like this come here? >> will we need our own trucker rally to end all of this insanity, once and for all?

>> is the trucker convoy coming to america? >> reporter: all this coverage, causing one staffer at the fox-opposing group media matters to say, i haven't seen fox news try to will a protest into existence with this much effort since the lead-up to january 6th. it's happening on other networks, too. >> well, look at that, folks. the fight for freedom continues up in canada. >> reporter: one america news also hyping the story, covering it every hour and arguably exaggerating its scope. >> ottawa's been taken over by the peaceful protestors. >> reporter: cnn's fact check pointed out many false claims by the size of the convoy have been making the rounds. on fox, it sure looks huge. with banners saying, "freedom convoy captivates the world." >> they are here for freedom. >> reporter: and sean hannity endorsing the group -- >> we support what they're doing. >> sean sends a message. he sends a message. he says we are standing beside you. he is standing beside you. >> reporter: how might fox treat a blockade by a different kind

of group? well, we don't have to wonder. these reports are from past episodes of hannity's show. >> and for a while, they stood in the middle of an intersection blocking traffic. they were blocking traffic and some cars were trying to get through. >> not allowed to block trafb traffic and yet they have been doing it now for about an hour. >> suffice to say hannity is not playing traffic cop during this protest. look. this is people power in action in canada. it is a big story but right-wing media in the u.s. is only telling one side of that story. they are talking all about freedom but freedom, for some canadians, is instilling fear in others. it is complicated but fox's biggest stars are making it sound simple and they want to see this kind of trucker protest happen now in the united states. they want to see it here, stateside. don? >> brian, thank you so much. i appreciate that. officials are warning of protests and disruptions here in the united states this weekend. so, what do they need to do now to be ready? we are going to talk about that, next.

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shipping your luggage before you fly you'll never have to wait around here again. like ever. that can't be comfortable though. shipgo.com the smart, fast, easy way to travel. the list of states rolling back covid restrictions keeps growing. nevada's governor announcing an end to his state's mask mandate effective immediately, but the white house and the cdc still warning they believe it's too soon to go back to normal. whatever that is after two years of a pandemic. joining now to discuss former fda commissioner dr. mark mcclellan. even with the cases dropping like a rock from the january peak, most counties throughout the use are still seeing high community transmission, so who is right here? is it too soon to be dropping mandates? >> well, don, good to be with

you especially with cases coming down as much as they are. the case level are still higher than they were back in that delta surge last winter, but they are definitely on a strong downward trajectory. the hospitalizations are lagging now, so it's understandable people are ready to move on. there are still -- even though the states are dropping mandates there's still an ability for local areas, counties, cities, to keep mandates in place. don, i think the main thing to watch out for at this point is those case rates keep falling and we're ready the next time if they go up again. in the meantime people do want to get more to a sense of normalcy, and they can do that while still taking some reasonable precautions. >> let's talk about the white house today recommending even in states where mandates are lifted people should keep following cdc guidelines on masking. so how about anyone who might be confused here or unsure of the people around them? is one-way masking effective doctor?

>> one way masking is effective in protecting you and protecting people around you. the risks now are lower than they were. they may go up again in the future, hopefully not. but in the meantime there's still a lot of few step we have in place that can help protect you. first of all, hopefully you're vaccinated and you're boosted. if you're due for that, that is the single biggest thing you can do to make sure a case of covid doesn't turn into anything more serious. in addition to that things like good ventilation, keeping some distance, other things can also help protect you. >> covid facts on the ground are changing. more people are vaccinated. there's now an estimated 90% immunity and political leaders and public health experts are trying to reduce these restrictions. and give people more freedom. now some on the right are saying mandates and vaccines were never needed in the first place. listen to this from the fox propaganda network. >> over the course of less than

a week the same people who systematically turned america into a quarantine camp suddenly out of nowhere started call in unison for medical freedom. you should know this virus was killed not by science but by the mid-term election. it turns out the only real cure for covid-19 is the political ambition of the democratic party. >> doctor, why does everything have to be reduced to politics, all or nothing? i mean us and them? >> well, that's a good question, don. i hope and i really appreciate what you're trying to do to help people recognize the circumstances are changing. as you said we've got a lot more immunity than we used to. we also have tests you can get. if you have symptoms free tests are available. you can figure out very quickly if you've got covid or not, and we also have treatments. so for people who even aren't vaccinated or let those vaccinations lapse or high risk, that can help, too. so we're in a very different place than we were a year ago or three months ago.

that's why it's important to recognize it's okay to change what we're doing but still keep some precautions in place. so really that middle ground. >> right. in large part that immunity comes from the fact we have a vaccine that is helping people with -- with the immunity. let's talk a little bit more, dig into what you said because this new polling from cnn that finds americans split on whether it's time to live with the pandemic or keep the focus on stopping the spread. other folks who say we should focus on stopping the spread, only 9% are very confident that we can. do you think there's a grudging acceptance now that people who remain vaccine hesitant are just unreachable? >> i think it's going to be hard to get the numbers up to 100%. i do think we can get vaccinate rates up further. we still have some room to increase vaccinations for kids especially. and since we want to get rid of the mask mandate in school and give kids a chance for the first time for having normal learning

in a couple of years, getting vaccination to kids, getting information about that will make a difference. and we're still seeing, don, vaccination rates going up a bit at some workplaces as we have local efforts and people getting answers and seeing more experience with the vaccines. but, again, we don't have to depend on vaccines alone at this point. besides immunity we also have tests you can get quickly. we also have treatments that work if you have symptoms or if you're in a risk group or haven't been vaccinated. all of that can help even if we don't get rid of the cases completely, which i don't think we will. all that can help us from having hospitalizations and other big disruptions in our lives from here on out. but we do need to take some steps to live with the new normal. >> doctor, i was looking at this new report. before you go i want to ask you about the cdc publishing new guidelines for opioid prescriptions, the first time since 2016. they removed the prescription dosages -- restrictions i should say on dosages because so many

opioid -- of so many opioid deaths. doctors complained because of untreated pain, withdrawal, even overdose. what do these new guidelines mean for patients? what's going on here? >> well, for patients it means talk to your doctor. the guidelines also emphasize that there are a lot of alternatives available for opioids for controlling pain. we've got -- they're not perfect options. i wish we could do more to control pain without any side effects, but there are options available. and for people in certain circumstances where there aren't alternatives for opioids and there are steps in place to prevent risk of addiction or the consequences of addiction, opioids can be very helpful. but it's important to remember as the new guidelines say these medications come with risks. important to talk to your doctor about alternatives as well. >> all right. thank you, dr. mcclellan. i appreciate it. >> good to be with you.

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