good eke, again. it is midnight here in dwrork york just after 7:00 a.m. daybreak in kyiv, where a russian move on the city could be upcoming and explosions heard in the early-morning darkness on the ground and in the skies above it .

the last voices you heard, they are using the word for plane referring to its destruction. the blast -- one of several so far tonight in and above the capital, including at least three new explosions within the last 25 minutes or so to the southwest. a high-rise apartment, also, got hit. other explosions were reported else where in the country. the focus is kyiv with the top-biden administration official telling lawmakers in a conference call earlier-this evening, that russian mechanized forces are now dangerously close -- about 20 miles -- outside kyiv. but because the briefing was nearly six hours ago, and those troops are, of course, mobile, their exact proximity may have changed.

we also have new satellite photos showing a long on kconvo of russian military vehicles crossing the border with belarus just north of kyiv. shortly after airtime, ukraine's defense mip stri claimed more than 30 russian tanks have been destroyed since the war began, along with seven aircraft and six helicopters. now, that is something cnn simply cannot independently verify and it's important we point that out. according to one source on that conference call we mentioned, lawmakers were having a tougher time than anticipated. publicly, secretary of state bl blinken said it is in decapitation. >> you are convinced putin is going to overthrow this government? >> i am convinced he is going to try to do that. >> for his part tonight, ukraine's president zelenskyy ominously said the same. >> translator: according to our information, the enemy has marked me as target number two,

my family as target number two. they want to destroy ukraine politically by destroying the head of state. we have information enemy-sabotage groups entered kyiv. meantime back home, the u.y. security council set to take up a resolution condemn being russia tomorrow. russia is expected to veto it is in moscow, in hennen grad, a small but significant number of protestors came out against the war and were met by police presence and arrests. cnn's matthew chance in kyiv. cnn kaitlan kolent at the white house. cnn sam kiley in kharkiv. and near black sea, nick paton walsh. i want to start with matthew chance and what he saw and heard in the capital tonight. how has it been so far, matthew? >> actually, up until a few seconds ago, it has been a relatively quiet night compared to the night we had before. um, we had a big explosion that was heard a few hours ago. um, followed by some other smaller explosions, as well. it's now emerged, according to

ukrainian interior ministry officials, that the video you can see now is of a ukrainian fighter jet that was shot out of the skies over kyiv. you can see, the -- um -- the debris scattered over a relatively sort of brad brod a broad area of some area of the ukrainian capital. ukrainian fighter jet shot out of the skies by russian forces, presumably, of course, through missile attack in kyiv. a second incident and also suburb of kyiv was a russian rocket attack on what is described as a -- as a -- as a residential area. you -- you can't -- damage this, you can see the pictures of the fire inside that apparently residential building. you might not be able to hear this now, anderson, but right in the distance from when i am speaking to you right now, i can hear a rumble of explosions as day breaks over this.

i mean, i encountered special force troops from russia much closer to -- to kyiv than that. maybe, about 10, 12, 15 miles away at -- at an airport. an airbase that they had at that time taken. they were choppered in, and they -- they battled ukrainian forces to establish control over that airbase. it is not clear what the status of that -- of that position is now. but clearly, there are a growing number of russian forces in various strategic positions around the ukrainian capital and i can tell you the residents of city and officials in the city are bracing for some kind of next step in this russian plan. so, bracing for an assault on the capital. >> let me ask you because in the pictures i have seen, it doesn't seem as if this is necessarily a

capital ready for combat in the streets. i mean, are there -- you know, we ever all been in places under attack or about to be attacked where there are roadblocks on every block. people have armed themselves with makeshift weaponry. some have heavy weaponry. i mean, is -- is that the seen in kyiv now? are people anticipating that? or have people just tried to leave? what's going on there? are they ready? >> well, i mean, there's definitely been people trying to leave for a good 24-hour period, there was a solid line of traffic taking the main highway to the west out -- out of the city. that seems to have subsided. now, i think for the most part, they have already left. in terms of the defenses of the city, we know that, you know, in the -- in the -- in the days ahead of the -- of the actual, you know, declaration of war, and the first air strikes by -- by russia, defenses were set up on the outskirts of the city. but then, we also know that the

russians banded those with barrage after barrage of cruise-missile attacks but you are right. i am not seeing, you know, really -- well, hang on a monday -- you hear air -- air-raid sirens right now, um, across the ukrainian city of kyiv. what is it five-past seven here in the morning local time. and the residents of kyiv are being woken up right now to those air-raid sirens as they -- um -- sort of echo across this otherwise-silent city. you can hear them now. so now, whether that is a precautionary measure or whether that is a sign of what is about to happen. >> and are there -- are there places for people to go? are there, you know, subway places people can go to or air-raid shelters? >> yes, there are. and there are i think some quite considerable facilities here in kyiv. there are -- there are air-raid

shelters. there are -- there are subway stations, underground railway stations where people can be housed. you know, large numbers of the population. it is a city of 2.8 million people. lot of those people, of course, left as was already said. um, but yes. lot of people will be taking shelter but, you know, there is still going to be a lot of people out here vulnerable to potential attack. >> we also saw, in the video we just played, of president zelenskyy talking from undisclosed location, i assume somewhere perhaps underground in -- in kyiv. he has said there are sabateurs. he said he is number one, his family is target number two. is there anything really to stop russian forces from -- i mean, if those defensive positions were battered by, you know, heavy armaments, how easy would it be for the russian forces to

come in if they wanted to take kyiv reqand decapitate the leadership? >> if they want to do it, i think they will be able to do it. i don't think ukraine has the capability to stop them for hong. they may have stalled the operation a little bit now with the level of resistance they have been putting up which apparently has been quite intensive. from my vantage point here on the roof top, i haven't been able to witness the level of that -- of that resistance. um, but, no, and if this operation has stalled. if there has been sort of -- if -- if there haven't been as many forces put in as perhaps were needed by the rigzs to make this happen quickly, then i am sure that will be addressed at some point by the authorities by -- by the kremlin and they will -- not necessarily a good sign, is what i am trying to say. if this operation decided to be underpowered, and that the --

the kremlin decide they haven't put enough forces in because perhaps they were expecting surrender of ukrainian forces, they underestimated the strength of ukrainian forces and their abilities. that may have achieved a short-term delay in this. but it -- it would probably provoke a much larger, stronger response by the russians to make sure they achieve their strategic dpoels. >> it's not -- it's not entirely clear what the strategic goal is, at this point, of russian forces. i mean there are -- you talk to different military dush know, people with long-military careers who say, well, perhaps they want to just encircle the second largest city, kharkiv, in the east, and not even deal with moving into a city with a population of a million, 1.5 million people. i mean, i guess there is a chance maybe they won't want to take over all of kyiv. they just want to decapitate leadership, install some new

leadership but then i assume they would have to keep forces on the ground there because not everybody is going to embrace a new leader in for -- you know, put in by -- by putin. >> you are right. i mean, look, we don't know what the -- the real strategic objective is of -- of this -- of this invasion by russia. i mean, vladimir putin said it was a special-military operation to, you know, secure donbas and to, you know, um, secure the territory of those small, little republics that were recognized a couple of days ago. they only occupy and control a small amount of the territory that they -- they came as theirs. and so, you know, that -- initially, this was -- this was set out by the kremlin, by vladimir putin as being an operation to expand their territory. and to push back ukrainian forces in the donbas. but because of how this has played out, because of what we have seen. you know, that -- that doesn't seem to be carried through with

events on the ground. i mean, the fact that there are strikes taking place in kyiv, the capital, hundreds of miles away from eastern ukraine. and other countries as well. z raise the possibility that, you know, the russians are going for not just all-out invasion but those scenarios that a couple days ago -- like a full occupation, like a decapitation of the -- of the government, an installation of a pro-moscow pocket regime. you know, couple -- couple of days ago, you know, these sort of theories only fanned listeners in the dark recesses of the internet. now, we are looking at a russian government that has shown itself to be absolutely militant when it comes to ukraine. and so, as far as -- as far as i'm concerned, it seems that anything is -- anything is on the table. >> yeah. matthew, if you can, stick around. i want to bring in cnn military analyst and retired air force colonel leighton. colonel, the idea that at 6:30

eastern time, russian forces entered ukraine through belarus and were 20 miles away from kyiv. could those forces have already come to the outskirts of the capital by now? >> yeah, about six hours ago, anderson, almost six hours ago, yes, it is absolutely possible. i mean, they only have this much to go from the border -- that is about 56 miles and when you look at -- at that particular distance if they are already more than halfway there, then yes, they could actually be in the capital or the outskirts at least, it is theoretically possible. >> how difficult is this for ukrainian forces? let alone, you know, other observers, u.s. and -- and others? given that we -- that it's not really even know, publicly, what these strategic objectives are of vladimir putin here. >> so, that is one of the big problems that you have when you are on defense. so when it comes to military stroot just, anderson, whaufr to really look at is what are are

your options? if you are on defense, you are automatically at a disadvantage. the guy on offense, in this case vladimir putin, has a lot of possibilities and he can start changing things up when he -- when he lreally wants to. he could, for example, just do this. originally, we just talked about going to the don about a, the eastern part here. and like you and matthew were talking about, that is the kind of thing everybody thought he would do -- bell, him everybody. i was never convinced that would be the way he he would do it because when i listened to putin's speeches, it was very clear to me that he wanted one thing, and one thing only, and that was to take all of this. to take all of ukraine, and make it into, in essence, a russian vassal state. now, more people seem to be believing that's the case but this is the key thing. this, right here, is the objective. and what that really means is not as much it is the capital but it's where zelenskyy is believed to be and that is why

the russians would want to get there. it also of course means this is a symbolic value to it, and putin, of course, believes in symbolism and that is something that can't be underestimated in this particular scenario. >> um, matthew, there -- there -- on the streets, what are -- i mean he, on the streets yesterday, were people going around? i mean, are there roadblocks? are there, you know, people with weapons walking around on the streets? i mean, there was talk in the weeks leading up to this of the possibility of a longer-term insurgency. all that sort of stuff requires there being, you know, weapons that aren't in central depots that are easily taken out by russian forces that are -- you know, it requires people with a will to fight, figuring out ways to do that, and a government which has sort of tried to sow the seeds of that. is there any indication of that? i mean, have they prepared for

any kind longer-term fight? >> well, i mean, they have called up reservists in the country. there is been what they call a full mobilization announced so the military is on highest-possible alert. people are being given weapons, citizens are being given weapons if -- if they want to have them. um, there has been a ban on adult males between 18 and 60 years old leaving the country so that they can -- so that they can serve in the military, should they be conscripted in. i am not sure that issue of conscription has gone out. it may have. but -- but certainly, we are not seeing sort of very concentrated elements of armor, very concentrated levels of troops in this capital city of kyiv. i am not seeing that. i kcan't speak to what is happening outside the city or what is happening elsewhere in the country. i only have this one very

limited vantage point. i did see some ukrainian forces, you know, earlier today on the outskirts of kyiv as i was going towards that airbase that i reported from earlier today where i actually met up with russian special forces sort of unexpectedly. um, and they looked tired. they look worn down. some of them looked like they -- they, you know, had not had sleep for a long time. and that compared very unfavorably to how the russian forces looked because when i met them -- after i realized they were actually russian forces -- they were, you know, the kind of people that had been brought in. were obviously special forces. they were obviously highly trained, highly professional, highly disciplined. and so, yeah, there was a big difference in those did issue in those quality of troops i think we saw on that occasion. >> matthew chance, colonel leighton. appreciate it. joining us now, former u.s. ambassador to ukraine, steven

pfifer. ambassador, i am wondering what you make of -- listening to our correspondent matthew chance and others, what do you make of the latest attacks, where the invasion stands at this hour? >> yeah. anderson, it's -- it's -- it's hard to figure out exactly what is going on. you are trying to track it from social media and really fragmentary reports. but one was to come in very quickly and destroy as much of the military as they could and leave which would be consistent with what mr. putin said yesterday about not wanting to occupy the country. but the other one which i think is now more likely is actually to take kyiv and it's regime change. they want to row place president zelenskyy with somebody else because but that doesn't bode well for the russians because it is very difficult for me to see any pro-russian puppet installed in kyiv lasting more than five minutes after the russian forces leave. so, putting that kind of person

in charge would require oh a long occupation by the russian military. >> yeah. given what you know about ukraine, it is a large country and you have -- if you have a russian puppet in place, you know, securing the rest of the country is as -- as the u.s. has learned, is aer have difficult thing to do. >> yes, and i think the ukrainian population -- i mean, let me start by saying nothing has done more than russian policy over the last eight years to push crane toward the west and to antagonize ukrainianings. not anti-russian people but the anti-russian government. and i don't believe that this assault is changing that. uh, and there are a large number of civilians or army veterans who are prepared to take up arms, and go out and defend their country and that's going to be, i think, a very difficult problem for the russians to deal with if they intend on occupying

ukraine or a significant part unify crane for a hong period of time. >> also, just several days ago, what they call patriots day in ukraine, in which they honor those who were killed and fighting against a pro-russian leader and successfully. and drn-- and i mean it was a v almost medieval battle scene we saw of civil kwlans overthrowing the pro-russian leader who fled the count richlt. >> and just eight years ago and what i think that showed is that whatever problems ukraine has, ukrainians want to be in a democracy. they want to have a political voice. they have got some ways to go but they see where mr. putin has taken russia over the last 20 years, to a much more autocrat ilk regime and they say they don't want that. and i think they are determined

and a lot of ukrainians are going to be plrepared to go out and fight to defend their country even though otteds are stacked against them. >> do you think it's been a problem? the ukrainian government was in this situation for the last several weeks where you have the biden administration saying an attack is potentially imminent and raising alarms. the ukrainian government was upset about that often. even them getting diplomatic families out. that upset the ukrainians who had the u.s. was overplaying this, did that -- which obviously, there were reasons for them to do that and to not have vehicle and to keep the economy from continuing. did that sow the seeds of a future insurgency or preparing defenses? >> agree. let me say first, the biden administration, i mean the intelligence releasing were spot

on. they are basically calling what you see today. i was in kyiv about twleek oogs and there was the sense that president zelenskyy wanted to take a cautious approach because he was worried about not causing a panic, not causing a run on the local currency. and i they their assessment and the impression i had is they have the seem assessment of numbers of russian troops arrayed but their assessment of the intent of the creme lip was different and at least some that we spoke to thought if the russians came in, it would be a much smaller operation than we have seen in the last day. now, having said that, it does seem in the last three days, the uyanians gip to get var concerned and my guess is they have taken some very urgent pre preparations. coming up next, live report from lviv, where air-raid sirens

have been going off. >> also, where things stand right now and what new steps are are being considered to. a up pressure on putin. plus, two veteran watchers weigh in on what putin's next moves might be. that and more in ourur live-lat hour continuing. "andererson cooper 360" fro the director of pridide and prejudice and darkest hour, critics calling it it one of the best pictures of the year. sirano, only in movi friday rated pg-13. tomorrow. you're a one-man stitchwork master. but your staffing plan needs to go up a size. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire if you have advanced non-small cell lung cancer, your first treatment could be a chemo-free combination of two immunotherapies that works differently. it could mean a chance to live longer.

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of shots of red flares in the sky. it's much rarer, to see these -- to hear these sirens here in western ukraine, where only about an hour away from the polish border but there have been targets hit near here. yesterday, about anne airfield about 60 miles was hit. so we dochbt know exactly why the air-raid sirens went off this morning. we may still expect some more but the lviv city council did ask everybody to seek shelter so we're -- we're watching to see what happens next but there certainly appears to be still a threat in this area of western ukraine, as well, anderson. >> and am i right in believing lviv is before american diplomats have been kind of moving to, crossing the border into poland, and coming back to do work in lviv during the day. do you know is that still where international diplomatic rem representation has moved to? >> yes, in fact, more embassies

have mofbd here in the last 48 hours or so. the u.s. embassy has staff that stayed the night in poland and then come across to lviv to continue work. they have also opened border krosings into poland and the u.s. embassy has directed any u.s. citizens trying to leave to go to certain border crossings. what is happening now is that lviv is, at the moment, the safest city in ukraine. and so, a lot of embassies -- a lot of people -- are knefleeing here to try and seek safety. so, as kyiv, the capital, becomes -- as russian troops get closer and close, lviv is becoming, in essence, the defk toe capital. >> coming up next, biden administration's ominous assessment of the situation around kyiv. cnn kaitlan collins at the white house for us. so, kaitlan, what more are officials saying about the latest? >> well right now, they are monitoring things. of course, watching to sew what is happening and there have been

pretty blunt, anderson, about what that think think is going to happen next is what is next on president putin's agenda and that is taking the capital city of kyiv. and they have looked at the ways he has tried to do that. of course we know earlier, his top-defense officials were briefing lei makers telling them some of those forces were approaching kyiv, getting closer and closer. that was about 6:30 p.m. eastern time. so imagine obviously now that it is past midnight here in washington, d.c., they are a lot closer in that sense. and of course, their concern is once they do get there, that putin's plan is try to overthough the government, overthrow president zelenskyy and that is something president zelenskyy himself as noted. saying he believes he is target number one and his family is target number two and i think when you listen to the president and talks about the likelihood of this happening or what putin is going do, they seem to think that this is -- he is well on his way to doing this when this comes to efforts to try and overthrow the government there. questions raised, of course, about what happens next, how

long they can sustain that, what an inusurgency would look like. we should note as it comes to zelenskyy himself, as he has been posting videos on pretty regular update, he himself has made clear he wants to stay in ukraine. we know there have been some conversations with white house officials, earlier, before russia dually invaded ukraine. about maybe, a contingency plan. maybe moving him closer to the poe hish border if russia was going take kyiv. that doesn't mean zelenskyy had also subscribed to that but it was that premeditated and that far considered in the minds of officials here in the u.s. government because they realized this was a strong likelihood. one other thing i want to note, anderson. we have been talking today about how russian forces had gone and the ukrainian national guard had been monitoring and guarding the chernobyl plant. this radioactive waste, repository at this point. they had taken that and officials said they were very concerned about that because they believed it was of very

little strategic military value to the russian government but one thing they noted is that it does provide a direct route to kyiv from territory that is russian controlled so if that plays into the factor of what russia is doing and and their game plan is now. >> kaitlan collins, thank you so much. senior fellow at harvard's belfort centers. also, cnn national security analyst and former cia chief of russia operations, steve hall. as russians reportedly advance on kyiv and given the biden administration's assessment, what do you expect the next 24 or 48 hours to look like? obviously, hard to tell given it's not even clear exactly what the extra teenage ing objectives are. >> given the indicators are pushing the putin plan to place the government in kyiv, we are not seeing what is happenening behind the scenes in the gray of intelligence and i can assure you right now russian intelligence -- meaning, mainly

the fsb -- the federal security service -- is in ukraine en masse with a very specific set of targets, as zelenskyy himself called himself target-number one. but going throughout country. and trying to label and find awl the people that they will remove, not just remove, decapitate, say, the leadership of kyiv and replace it with people who would be loyal to russia or puppets. but also, to avoid the pos -- try to avert the possibility that ukraine could start a meaningful insurgency, which means going after a whole series of what they consider anti-russians, which is one reason i think you are seeing this full-country press. they need to be everywhere in this phase of putin's operation. in order to change the government, in order to used intelligence, the fsb and gru -- again, they are probably there in the hundreds, if not thousands. this is their backyard. they know this area. and i will just point out here that vladimir putin came to power in russia on the basis of

his ability to go into chechnya, in russia, and brutally take out a -- basically, a -- an insurgency against the russian government. that's how he came to power. that brutality, that resolve, that very detailed operational plan that the fsb and gru are executing right now are as important as the military operation. and in fact, it may be driving the timeline more than their ability to encircle and take kyiv. >> steve, do you agree with that? and if so, then how long of a -- i mean, even if -- if you take out the top leadership and, you know, people at lots of different parts of the country, people with military experience. people who might be able to take part or lead some sort of insurgency. you are still talking about an occupation by russian forces of an awful lot of land for a fair amount of time, no? >> yeah. wolf hit the nail on the head on all those points.

the ohm other thing i would add is in addition to the russian operatives already in ukraine now coming in with the russian forces, there have been a whole bunch there for a number of years operating much more covertly but still doing the same type of work. identifying where the primary points of resistantnce are. and zelenskyy might indeed be number one on that list. it is a really interesting decision. um, that putin is going to have because on the one hand, as you pointed out, anderson, if his intention is to move into ukraine in force and stay there, sort of annex like he already did with crimea and, i don't know, make it part of russia or effec effectively do so. that is going to be really difficult. it is a large country and how are you going do that with a bunch of ukrainians who just got -- just got attacked? on the other hand, if you are going do what people are calling a decapitation move, going to do

regime change, get rid of zelenskyy and put in a russian puppet government. that didn't go so well last night. remember in 2014, there was a very pro-russian government in power and the people rose up and tossed him out and that -- that there wasn't even warfare going on at that point. they just didn't like him because he had too many ties to russia. so really interesting strategic choice he is going to have to make there. >> wolf, do you think -- when we talk about decapitation of leadership, are -- what is the mo for vladimir putin? i mean, are you talking imprisoning? are you talking killing? >> i think whatever it takes, um, anderson. as steve said, they -- they have no problem liquidating opponents. i heard the administration at one point cite intelligence that -- that would be particularly brutal -- the russian response in ukraine. and i immediately thought, as an intelligence officer, that this is what that might have been referring to. and if they don't have to, they don't have to. in other words, if they flee,

great. if they can swap jail cells, then they will do that. but steve is right. this is knot easy. i think this is certainly the riskiest move vladimir putin has made in 20 years of rule -- rule. he has probably spent years thinking about it, years planning it. and as steve said, the apparatus they have operating in ukraine is massive in order to book on everything they are going to have to do. even with all that, i think, personally, the insurgency is a huge problem for putin. if he changes the government, that doesn't change it, as ambassador pfifer just said on air, the ukrainians are going to fight you and i think putin knows that but he may have underestimated the amount of antipathy in that regard. >> thank you so much. just ahead he as the rigz military tries to advance in

parts of ukraine, we are going to bring you an incredible story of a group of ukrainian border guards who, tonight, are being hailed as heroes, we will explain why, ahead. bath fitter into theheir homes? it just fits. bath fitter. call now or r visit bathfitter.m to book your free consultation. for people living with h-i-v, keep bei you. and asyour doctor about biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in certain adults. it's not a cure, but with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to and stay undetectable. that's when the amount of virus is so low it cannot be measured by a lab test. research shows people who take h-i-v treatment every day and get to and stay undetectable

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for the foster kids who need it most— at helpfosterchildren.com we have seen ynn reporters this evening across the country in ukraine where fighting has been occurring or those trying to survive. there is one story in the south of the country want to bring you now. nick nick paton walsh. nick, there is a recording between ukrainian and russian forces that occurred. what -- what heaped? happened? >> yeah, it is a dark episode which was cast by the ukrainian president zelenskyy as a moment of heroism. snake island off the coast of o odessa where we were yesterday, where we heard explosions in the

distance and they persisted intermittently throughout the morning. exactly hard to know what was being hit. some of them ferocious, so we could hear their imhakt from miles away. and snake island some distance in fact. appears to have been attacked by a russian warship. and on it, the population is basically just ukrainian soldiers defending it. here is the intercept of the conversation between them and the russian forces that approached them. [ speaking foreign language ]

[ bleep ]. [ bleep ]. >> that is the end of the recording, and is most likely -- we can't confirm independently that the rurgds russian war ship made good on its threat to destroy that island. part of extensive efforts we saw yesterday by the russian military to attack ukraine's defenses ans along the black sea coast. vital part of ukraine economy and infrastructure. anderson. >> what is the hatest you have been seeing in the region? >> yeah, look, we are in a detown on the way up from crimea. that's for eight years been illegally held by russia and forces have been trying to move up. we heard intensive fighting to the east of this town when we came in last night and that was centered around a key bridge that goes from sort of the --

the russian-held side of the river over to this side, still held by ukrainian forces. it seemed like the russians had, in fact, moved over that bridge yesterday and we don't quite know what they did. there were sgds suggestions they might have peeled past the time. and there were persistent low-flying jets sweeped in buzzing the town. unclear whose they were, unlikely given the frequency, russians. we heard some distant air strikes, too, and just this morning, there was another low-flying jet. so clearly, fighting continues for this key river. i am at essentially i think many might be arguing about defining the future borders along the line here. the river runs straight up through kyiv, the east where separatist territories are separating crimea already held by russia and up through kyiv where the fighting is at the moment. so if the russian ambition is for not all of ukraine, this river and the bridges across it that we are seeing the intense fight for here are absolutely

key, anderson. >> make peyton walsh in ukraine, thanks to you and your team. coming up next as lawmakers on capitol hill debate what more should or could be done to support ukraine, i will speak with a member of the house arm services committee about what he wants president biden to do next. [fire truck sisiren] [first responder] onstar, we s see them. [onstar advisor] okay. mother and child in vehicle. mother is unable to e exit the vehicle. injuries are unknown. [first responder] ththank you, onstar. [driver] my son, is he okay? [first responder] your son's fine. [driver] thank you. there was something in the road... [first responder] it's okay. you're safe now. (johnny cash) ♪ i've traveled every road in this here land! ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere, man. ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere, man. ♪ ♪ crossed the dest's bare, man. ♪ ♪ i've breathed the mounin air, man. ♪ ♪ of travel i've had my shareman. ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere. ♪

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ukraine's capital. the battle for dooefb, potential turning point in this war if and when it comes. earlier secretary of state blinken said he is convinced russia intends to overthrow the ukrainian government there. president biden suggests more sanctions may follow. i am joined now by democratic congressman ruben gallego, who was in ukraine in december as part of a congressional delegation. congressman, if the russians take control kyiv and the ru current government is overthrown, does that impact the -- the u.s.' response in any way? >> well, i certainly think it does impact our response about who we are actually arming. at that point, we have to make the realization that the ukraine military as we know it might be compromised and then i think we have to shift to actually supporting partisan and resistance fighters that are willing to take up the fight against russia. ukraine is a massive country, the size of

country the enormous. the amount of manpower is not going to be enough to actually stop an insurrection from what looks like to be a country that wants to be free and independent. i mean, if you just look at what we just saw where 13 men and women decided to die rather than give up to a russian warship, that tells you that there is probably a lot more of that type of fighting spirit in that country. so we as a nation should decide, and we as actually western allies and democratic allies should decide that we need to arm the resistance, and we need to make sure that russia knows that they're not going to have a country that they can just eat whole without having to actually drink the poison that comes with it. >> how difficult would that be in a country like ukraine? the weaponry that the u.s. has already sent to ukraine, is it clear to you that that's in the

hands just of ukrainian military forces? or has that been set up in any way to be given out to people in the event of decapitation of the central government? >> i think at this point it's very much centralized within the military. at least my last conversations that were, you know, involved with the u.s. military and with ukraine special forces. but when you come to a resistance type of insurgency, at that point all bets are off. and it's more about who has the will to fight, not necessarily who has the skill to fight. and with enough training from our allies and ourselves and with enough will power for us to actually arm them, they can actually put a lot of harm to russia. at this point i have not been very impressed by russian skills at actually being able to fight in ukraine. and i don't think -- i think a lot of us overestimated their capabilities. and we should actually really

give credit to the will of the ukrainian people to fight and we should give them the capability to do it. >> it's not easy. we've had a number of guests on tonight saying even if they take out the leadership one way or another of ukraine and go after other elements within the country on kill lists or imprisonment lists who they believe could be behind an insurgency, or they believe it's potential future problems for them, it's still occupying a country for a long time. >> yes. >> as we've learned, as we saw in iraq, as we saw in afghanistan that is a difficult thing to do. >> yeah, i mean, i fought a seven-month insurgency in the anbar province. and i actually had, you know, iraqi allies on the ground with me, and it was still extremely difficult. i think russia is in a worse situation where they probably have no allies on the ground that actually want to kill them considering the fact that they

have, you know, invaded their country, a country that is democratic elected and they're coming in to try to depose them. you may actually kill all the leadership, but that's the kind of thing that may work in russia, but you're dealing with a country that has twice overthrown autocrats to become a democratic country. i'm not sure they're just going to lay down and let this happen again. and i think to the detriment of russia, they may actually learn this the hard way. >> congressman gallego, i appreciate your time tonight. we'll be right back. >> thank you. offers investors a broader view. ♪ we see companies protecting the bottom line by putting people first. we see a bright future, still hungry for the ingenuity of those ready for the next challenge. today, we are translating decades of experience into strategies for the road ahead. we are morgan stanley.

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