tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN March 2, 2022 6:00pm-7:00pm PST
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-- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com good evening again. it's day eight of russia's war in ukraine begins. new explosions have just rocked the capital. also late tonight, a defiant new message from ukraine's president zelenskyy. >> translator: our military, our border guards, our territorial defense, even ordinary farmers capture the russian military every day. and all the captives say only one thing. they do not know why they are here. despite the fact that there are dozens of times more of them, the morale of the enemy is constantly deteriorating. >> that said, the first big city here has apparently fallen. kherson in the south.
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russian forces, while bogged down elsewhere, have turned to the kind of warfare that shows little regard for civilian lives. matthew, i'm wondering what you have seen and heard there this evening. >> reporter: anderson, thanks very much. there's been a huge explosion within the past hour or so on the outskirts of kyiv. i don't know what was hit at this point. but clearly there are still an upsurge in strikes underway by russian forces on the outskirts of the city. and earlier tonight, a railway station in the city was also hit. apparently ukrainian officials telling us that that was their success in the sense they shot at a cruise missile in the sky. the debris landed on a railway station. otherwise it's been sort of relatively quiet. although there are still those concerns in the city tonight that the russian invasion forces
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building on the outskirts of the city and those troops are preparing a new tactic of really pounding the ukrainian capital in a bid to take it over, a real step up from the kind of level of pressure that the ukrainian capital has seen so far, anderson. >> two bits of potentially positive news. one, u.s. confirmed today that weaponry is still getting through to kyiv, where it is most needed. there's also now going to be a second round of talks in belarus. are ukrainian diplomats any more hopeful this time? you talked about this with president zelenskyy the other day. >> reporter: yes, i did. and look, they're not. i mean, the fact there's a second round of talks is, i suppose, in itself helpful. but i think ukrainian officials are holding back from -- from
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celebrating too soon saying that, look, they want to see actual concrete steps being taken on the ground. an actual cease fire being implemented, an end to the fighting at the very least, or a pause in the fighting before they believe that the other side, the russians, are really serious about finding a diplomatic solution to this. in the meantime, yes, you're right. there are -- there are more weapons getting through to the ukrainian side. hundreds of stinger surface to air missiles from the united states already being delivered. and of course as you've seen, that's having a real impact on the battlefield, particularly the javelin anti-tank missiles that have been used to full effect on various convoys, armored columns attempting to enter the ukrainian capital. the danger of that battlefield success is that vladimir putin's forces continue to fail in the
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way that they're failing, they could be redoubled and the military force applied to ukraine significantly stepped up. and that's bad news for the country. >> matthew chance, continue -- thank you for the great reporting. stay safe. coming up next, washington the day after president biden made the war a center piece of his state of the union address. there is new reporting tonight of flow of antimissiles to ukraine. and word of what russia told ukraine before the fact. kaitlan collins joins us now from the white house. kaitlan, what more are you learning tonight about the weapons we were just talking about that they're sending to ukraine? >> reporter: yeah, this is big because we have confirmed that the united states has sent hundreds of these stinger anti-aircraft missiles to ukraine in recent days. and remember, anderson, that comes after last friday, president biden had signed this order sending about 350 million more dollar in aid and security
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assistance to ukraine. and this is notable, given about 200 of these, we were told, were delivered on monday alone. and it's noteworthy for two reasons, one that this can still get into ukraine because obviously it's become a lot more challenging since the invasion started last week to get that aid there. and they're not sure how long that's going to happen or if the russians will try to disrupt that, of course. so, there's not this lethal aid getting to ukrainians. and two, because of these stengel anti-aircraft missiles, which obviously, they can take down aircraft. they're these pretty impressive tools that people can use. they're often manned by one person. they fire them from their shoulder. they can take down an aircraft. they're these heat seeking missiles. and the ukrainians have described them as pretty critical to what they've been doing so far in this fierce ukrainian resistance that we've seen. so, that is notable that the white house was able to send those. of course one big question is how many more they'll be able to send, as we've seen other governments trying to do
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similar. >> yeah, sweden has pledged weaponry and germany has reversed a long-standing policy, also pledging german weapons. i understand there's new intelligence reporting about the communication china and russia had actually before the invasion. >> reporter: so, this is something everyone had been watching. when the olympics were going on, obviously hosted by china, whether or not putin would wait until after the olympics ended to start the invasion. which of course western officials predicted he had decided and was likely to do. there was a western intelligence report circulating that in early february senior chinese officials told senior russian officials to wait until after the olympics had ended before they started this invasion if they were going to do so. and we don't know from this report, anderson, whether or not that was a conversation that happened directly at the leader level. but it does say they were senior officials and this was viewed as a credible report. and of course it does give the indication that china knew what russia had been planning, as the olympics were happening. of course, putin did ultimately
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wait until after the olympics had happened. and it just gives some insight into what they had known. and it had seemed pretty hard to believe that russia would -- maybe it would be a coincidence that they would wait, they were ready to go, ready to start this invasion if they hadn't had some kind of conversation with chinese officials about this. >> president biden has said it's clear russia is targeting civilians. he was asked about this today. but he's stopping short of actually accusing russia of committing war crimes thus far. >> reporter: this is actually pretty interesting. he basically said they weren't ready to make that assessment yet, that yes, putin has committed a war crime by going after civilian infrastructure, which has nothing to do with ukrainian defense or ukrainian military. this is noteworthy because other officials in the u.s. have not gone as far as to say that. you heard secretary blinken say they are documenting and watching closely what putin is doing. and this is certainly in his kind of chest of tools he uses to try to scare citizens in
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somewhere like ukraine like he's doing now. we've seen other world leaders they they do believe he's already committed war crimes, including boris johnson, who said, yes, this constitutes a war crime. and ukrainian president zelenskyy has said so as well. as this goes on, as people fear putin could get more brutal in the tactics, i think this is going to be a big conversation for world leaders not just here in the united states but everywhere. >> kaitlan collins, appreciate it. perspective now from retired army lieutenant general mark hertling, also peter zwak, global fellow at the welter center. general hertling, let's start with you. you've been watching this convoy north of kyiv several days now, still not making a lot of progress. american intelligence says it has stalled. how significant is this convoy in the grand scheme of russian troop movement? >> it's important because it is
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a resupply convoy, anderson. but i think the important part is it's stalled. it stopped. we don't know why it stopped. it could be maintenance. it could be part of the plan. but we're talking -- we've been using these maps for the last couple of weeks. and i personally don't like them all that much because this big blob of red, it takes up a whole lot of terrain. this is 200 miles from -- excuse me, 200 miles from the border down to kyiv, a city of 3 million people. you've got an airport about 20 miles outside of it. we think that's where mr. putin is putting his russian indirect fire weapons systems, artillery pieces, rockets, to have standoff capability to attack into the city. what kaitlan was just talking about before, mr. putin is not attacking infrastructure. he is attacking ukrainian citizens, civilians, schools, hospitals, apartment buildings.
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this is his terror campaign. it is no kidding a policy and he's standing off to do it. he's 20 miles away from that city. the fighters are defending that city. they're ready to protect the citizens. but frankly he's away from there and can't be touched yet. and the -- you know, what you don't see in this red blob is the curves of the road, the terrain that they have to go through, that those resupply trucks with ammunition and air defense pieces are all going on. so, it's a lot more complicated than these powerpoint maps show. >> general, what's also a lot more complicated is urban combat. in the last hour we were talking to general petraeus about the ratio of attackers to defenders. if you're an attacker, you want to have five to one on people defending a city. the russians don't have anywhere near that kind of force to go into a city like kyiv.
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so, what do they do? >> anderson, it's a great point. i want to just back track for a second about the convoy. try to imagine a column of 30 to 40 miles, several hundred vehicles bumper to bumper, which is not tactical, lined up in there. you have drivers, co-drivers, you have several now russian troops, many of them conscripts, draftees, who are freezing their tails off out there. and they're -- look at the ground around. this is a yield terrain for ukrainian, not just military, but citizens armed with small arms and rpg-type of antitank -- so, this is a real -- this is a world class mess up for the russians and they're trying to unravel. and it has affected their push on kyiv. now, kyiv very simply, they have
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two choices in my mind. i believe they need to get this thing done because of the weight of this thing all around both locally, domestically, and internationally. ideally you push into a city on a broad front. they lost their opportunity to drive a spearhead with tanks, they'll get massacred, as we've seen in the past. so, they need to set it up. they need to be methodical. should be lots of artillery. and of course this is a city still with 2 million-plus people in it. and to do it and to storm it will be a blood bath. and i'm not convinced that the russian soldiers all have their heart in it. from what we've been hearing anecdotally. so, i think the russians are in -- are trying to make up for their troop number deficiency with fire power. and that is potentially horrific. the determination of the ukrainian defense has shocked
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them, from the president down to the smallest villager. >> general hertling, how much of a learning enemy are russian forces? i mean, how much are they able to see what's going wrong and pivot? >> you can't learn in the position they're in right now, anderson. this is a lack of training, a lack of preparation and exercises, a lack of discipline in the army. remember, the majority of russian soldiers are conscripts. they're in for less than two years, in some cases a year. some of those vehicles we've seen on the road, indicators are they have extremely poor maintenance. they've been sitting for a very long time. that's what a train soldier ensures doesn't happen, that their vehicles work when they need them to. so, a combination of a lack of preparation doesn't contribute well to adapting on the battlefield. and the army that adapts fastest and first usually wins the fight.
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i see no adaptation at all in the russian army. what i do see is a plan. they wanted to put forces on the ground. the forces are failing. so, russia has reverted to what they've done in the past, massive destruction using artillery, rocket fire, and if they can air force. cloud cover is low. that's probably going to affect the capability of russian aircraft to fly. but it does not affect rocket and artillery fire. and they are going to use to terrorize the citizens of all the towns they're attacking against. one of the things i mentioned too, artillery fire is a compounding effect. it's not only the landing of the shell and the explosion in places where you think you're safe. sometimes it's the cluster munition. sometimes it's the precision weapon that's going into a certain building. but all the time, it's the constant coming from afar and you don't know where it's going to land. so, it's not only the concussive
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effects continuously. it's the fear of what might happen. artillery is a deadly weapon both physically and psychologically. and the russians have done this before in grazny, in idlib, and several other places. this is their weapon of choice, and it's horrific. it is not the way soldiers fight on the battlefield. it's the way you just intimidate civilian populations. >> terrifying. general hertling, appreciate it. coming up next, my conversation with war photographer lindsey adario about the remarkable people she's met covering kyiv. also the story of parenthood with the most dramatic beginning imaginable, a family who came to kyiv for the birth of a surrogate and their harrowining journey home. in a 7 day studydy to c cause fewer ulcers than immediate release aspirin. vazalore. the firsrst liquid-filled aspirin capsules...amazing!
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petraeus said in our last hour bears repeating. general petraeus spoke to the fact, whatever happens in kyiv, it will be seen my ukrainians and around the world. and that will make a difference. the same couldn't be said for what happened in aleppo. more specifically this will. images that can show the world not just a pain on a person's face but the steel in their soul and their determination sometimes just to carry on, sometimes to carry the day. these remarkable photos is the work of the "new york times" photo journalist lindsey adario, atho author of the book "it's what i do." lindsey, thanks so much for joining us. your photographs are so evocative, such a document of history but also for now what is going on. some of them are so emotional. i'm wondering what has stood out to you just in the time you've been here. >> i guess what stood out is how it's just gotten increasingly more tense, how people are
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becoming more desperate. i mean, i think -- i think the real fear has to do with what will come in the future really actually. i think people are terrified by the fact that we know what putin is capable of. we've seen what he has done to civilians in the past. and i think that's the real fear because you have people, women and children, women and sick children, living in the base basements of hospitals. we have people living in subway stations for a week now. and it's not like the bombing is happening constantly. it's not like the impacts are happening all the time. but it's enough to instill fear in the population. >> yeah, i spoke to a woman in kyiv today, who had been in a bomb shelter mostly since thursday of last week. she went home briefly today with her kids. she thought her kids were going to want to stay home. but they said they didn't want
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to stay there. they wanted to leave very quickly because they were afraid of a bombing. they were afraid of what might happen. it seems like it's that not knowing and kind of the eeriness of not exactly knowing where the russian forces are and when the worst might come. >> yeah. and that's the thing for us who are covering this conflict. i think, you know, we have been sort of lulled into this, well, it's kind of quiet. it's not so bad. and i woke up and there was a huge explosion about five minutes ago in kyiv. and so it's -- there's states bet there's space between them but when they happen, one has no idea when they will happen. and i'm sure it will get worse as the days come. >> just in terms of the bombs between people and resilience is such an overused word now. but the determination so many people here have not just for the immediate but seemingly
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determination that may last them a very long time because this could be a very long conflict. >> yeah. no. i haven't seen anything like this, where the population is absolutely determined to not lose. and i've seen people come out every single day. they're more resolute. i -- it's very hard to get access to things, and especially the camps where volunteers are being trained, where they're gathered obviously for security reasons. but once you get inside, i -- you know, the other day, i met a coffee roaster. i've met a teacher. you know, a woman who was doing marketing. people -- one woman who was engaged to be married two weeks ago, and her husband left to join the fight. and so she decided she had to join as well because there simply was no time to get married. so, i think the range of people who are joining is just extraordinary. >> i so admire -- it is such a
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difficult job what you all do and how -- i mean, it seems like just by the skin of your teeth times you're -- and force of will, you're getting yourself into places and figuring things out and looking at angles. and yet not allowing all the logistical things to stop you from actually capturing those moments of things that are really happening. can you just talk a little bit? you talked about how it's not easy to get around. can you just talk a little bit about what it is like trying to cover this? >> yeah, i think the thing that a lot of people don't realize is that photojournalists are also reporters. and we do a huge amount of research and try to figure out what the story is. every single morning i sort of wake up and think, okay, today is the day i have to cover civilian casualties because that is something i have not been able to cover yet. you know, every day i feel like i have to tell a different angle of the story or try to get access to something different. and then there's the whole process of work being security,
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if it's safe, where can we go, how far out of the center is it, do we have to cross a bridge, will that bridge get hit when we're on the other side? and then once you get there, you know, there could be other photographers there. you don't -- you know, yesterday, we went to a maternity hospital, and there were, like, 40 other journalists there. and it is -- these are people. we are walking into people in their most vulnerable moments, and we have to ensure we don't make them feel bad. you know, we are there to tell a story, but we also have to respect them, and we have to have integrity with how we deal with people. >> yeah, linsey adair yo, a preesh all the work you're doing for the new york times and in kyiv. thank you very much. coming up next more on the biden administration's efforts to keep pressure on vladimir putin whether through the military effort to ukraine or pleasure through the rest of the world.
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secretary blinken said today that he authorized expedited transfer of defensive equipment from allies to ukraine including anti-tank, anti-aircraft weaponry, critical for ukrainian forces. can you confirm that weaponry from the u.s. and european partners is still getting to ukrainian forces where it's needed in kyiv or wherever? >> i can confirm that, anderson. as you know, the secretary over the weekend authorized an additional $350 million worth of defensive military equipment for our kwan are yan partners. that brings the total to more than a billion dollars of defensive military support the united states has provided in the past year alone. these deliveries have continued and they will continue just as we've promised. >> republican senator ben sasse raised the issue to our jake tapper, saying the ukrainian military may not be having all the actionable real time intelligence it needs to fight back, claiming essentially red tape in the administration.
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is that true? >> we are providing our ukrainian partners precisely what they need to fight and engage in self-defense. they've been doing so with courage, with bravery, and with dignity and will continue to do that. i spoke to the defensive weaponry we provided, but we are robustly sharing information with our ukrainian partners. >> he believes russia is intentionally targeting civilians in ukraine. but earlier he declined to say whether he believes war crimes are being committed, saying it's too soon to say that? what is the line with war crimes? >> well, war crimes are spelled out very clearly, any number of the geneva conventions. what we are doing, what is important to us, and what we will continue to do are a couple things, one to provide our ukrainian partners precisely what they need to defend their country, which they are doing
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valiantly, in a way that president putin has not expected. and i think we can see that in the resistance his forces are facing. two, in some ways just as importantly, we are watching very closely. we are documenting thoroughly together with our partners around the world. we have made clear if they engage in activity that constitutes war crimes and human rights abuses and atrocities, we will hold them accountable. >> international criminal court, they define war crimes as willfully causing -- willful killing, willfully causing great suffering and not justified by military necessity. that sounds similar to what we are seeing happening in ukraine. and i know you said you are watching carefully and taking record and saying at a point, if you see war crimes, is that something you would publicly announce. >> anderson, i think you've seen
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over the past four months we have not hesitated to make public information available to us. it has been now more than four months since we've started sounding the alarm about what president putin had in mind. and that intelligence of course has been bourn out. if, in fact, russian forces do intentionally target civilians, there will be massive profound consequences for war crimes, for atrocities, for human rights abuses. >> ned price, a appreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you so much. coming up, i'll be joined live by an american couple who were caught in kyiv with their newborn daughter when the war began. but their greatest danger may not have come until they reached the border. they take us through their amazing escape. that's next. what you'll nee, and helplp you build a flexiblele plan for cash flw designed to last. so you can go from saving... to living.
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the birth of their daughter through a surrogate. the pictures show how they were and how it should have stayed. then only two days after vivian's birth, jessie woke up to the sound of shelling. the war had begun. the couple began its dangerous rally to get vivian out of the hospital and out of the country suddenly under attack. take a look at the review as a driver who only spoke russian tried to get them out of the city, destined for the temporary embassy in lviv. the massive gridlock turned the six-hour ride into 27 hours. only when they were on the road, they learned the embassy was closed. so they headed to poland. massive combat vehicles rolled past them. the family got within about eight miles from the polish border, they had no idea how much longer the final leg would
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suddenly become. jacob and jessie bachman join me tonight from california along with vivian. it is so great to meet both of you. first of all, congratulations. how are both of you and your newborn daughter doing? >> we're doing well. thank you. >> oh, my gosh. so beautiful. are y'all sleeping? >> thank you. >> are you getting any sleep? >> oh, a little. we're still jet lagged, so we're trying though. >> yeah, last night was probably the first night we've gotten really any substantial sleep in the past week for newborn reasons and trying to escape the country. >> so, jacob, can you just take us through how you end up getting to the polish border? what happened when you realized you had to get to the border? i understand at some point the cars were so backed up. and the line of cars at the polish border goes on for miles and miles and miles.
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you had to get out and walk. >> yes, yes. we were constantly keeping up with our progress. after sleeping in the car overnight, we were within -- we felt like about 20 kilometers of the border. after three or four hours in the car, we found out that we were -- we had just very little. so, at that point we decided that it was going to be the warmest part of the day and the only opportunity to make it to the border before nightfall would be to get out and walk. our biggest concern was with our daughter being four days old was hypothermia. it was really cold. but we felt like if we didn't act then, then we wouldn't know how much longer it would be until we would make it across. >> and jessie, this is something we've seen a lot of moms having to do, you know, just making that walk. it's been terrible for a lot of people. but with a newborn just four
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days old, it's really extraordinary. what was it like to have her with you walking through 30-degree weather? >> well, when we first got out of the car, i was worried we had made the wrong decision. it was pretty windy outside, and i'm sure the wind chill was even colder than 30 degrees. but we constantly stopped to make sure the baby was warm enough and that she was breathing. as the walk went on, i realized we made the right decision. we just walked through miles and miles of cars that weren't moving at all. so, i knew at that point that our walk to the border was the best decision we made. you know, the crazy thing is we talked eight miles with a newborn, which i think is far. but what's even more, what people are doing now. they're walking so much further than that in order to get to the
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border. so, it was bad. >> sometimes people spend days out there sleeping in school houses along the side of the road. jacob, we've got a video you took what it looked like when you finally made it to the border. what happened then? >> once we got to the border, we were optimistic that things were going to kind of get better. we hoped we would find some organized way to exit the country, and we found just the opposite. what we found was just thousands and thousands of people, all kind of packed on top of one another trying to -- trying to exit the country. we were fortunate that we had a four-day-old instant and that women and children were kind of given a preferential spot in line. so, that enabled us to bypass thousands of people. but we still after three hours of waiting, had still made very little progress. that's when the crowd kind of
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took it upon themselves to -- they asked jesse how old our baby was. and then i kind of pushed her to the front of the line. and they were able to get across. >> i'm sorry, go ahead. >> i was going to say, i tried to cross with them but because i was a male, the crowd wouldn't allow me to cross. so, we ended up crossing -- crossed separately, me several hours later. but -- and only with the help of the state department was i actually able to cross because of the limitations of allowing men from leaving the country at the time. >> so, what is it like -- i mean, you know, the birth of a child is such an extraordinary experience that to have a story like this that you will tell for the rest of your lives to your
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daughter about her amazing journey, i mentioned jesse, you were in ukraine, your daughter was born with the help of a surrogate. have you been able to contact the surrogate? do you know how she's doing? >> well, our oldest daughter was born via surrogate in 2019. so, we've actually been in contact both our surrogate mothers. they're both experiencing some heavy fighting in different areas. they different in different parts of ukraine. i reached out to surrogate today, and i'm kind of worried about her because i haven't heard back from her. she's been corresponding the entire time until today. but as of yesterday, she was back in her hometown with her daughter. >> well, surrogates are an extraordinary -- takes an extraordinary person to be a surrogate. i've been blessed to be able to have kids with surrogates as well. and it's an extraordinary
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blessing and they're really remarkable people. i hope they are well. it's certainly a difficult time there. i'm so glad you are home with your beautiful vivian, and i wish you the best. >> thank you. >> thank you, anderson. >> take care. just ahead, we'll discuss more of what the u.s. government may be trying to do or could do to protect civilians in ukraine with a member of the house foreign services committee. (music) who said you have to starve yourself to lose weight? who said you can't do dinner? who said onlthis is good? d this is bad? i'm doing it my way. meet plenity. an fda -cleared
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go next? >> well, that's the big question. that's the question we all have to be asking. and it's obvious that it's going much more in our favor and the ukrainians' favor than we anticipated. the russians are held up. they have concentrated an extraordinary amount of their combat power in ukraine, in their southern neighbor, to conduct this invasion in the first place, and now they've had to further concentrate it around the capital kyiv just to try to lay siege of the city. and yet they're not moving forward. they're stalled right now. so we've never really considered the prospects of a ukrainian victory. they are facing impossible odds. and yet their courage has been so extraordinary that they are not only holding back the russian army, they're beginning to degrade it. the question we all have to ask is if putin really gets backed into a corner here we can't just talk about the tactical implications on the ground, although they're grim. we also have to ask what are the strategic implications for what he might do next?
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>> by that you mean nrk weapons? >> i didn't say that, anderson. but it would be irresponsible for our strategists, our planners to take that off the table. we're dealing with someone who is by some accounts a madman, someone who is not making pragmatic decisions, is not even acting in the way he acted in the past. and he's a vicious man who doesn't even understand combat. this is something people forget about putin. he's a kgb agent. he thinks you can do everything with cloak and daggers. he understands assassinations. he doesn't understand how brutal urban combat is. as someone who's experienced that myself, i can tell you he's bitten off more than he might be willing to chew or than he might be able to chew. or perhaps his forces are willing to chew. we've started to hear reports of degrading morale among russian troops. when they're actually told to assault kyiv and they start
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getting hit by snipers, by molotov cocktails thrown from apartment windows, it's much harder to attack a city than it is to defend it. we have to question just how far those troops are willing to go. >> the problem is we've seen how far vladimir putin is willing to go in cities when he doesn't care about the civilian population. i mean, in aleppo we've seen barrel bombs being, you know, thrown from the sky and a city destroyed. in grozny we've seen the city leveled in order to take it. it's maybe different, some people have pointed out. there's a lot of reporters on the ground. the world is actually watching and has eyes on what's happening. not necessary l. tily the same situation in aleppo or grozny certainly. but that does not speak well to one of the options he has in his arsenal. >> there's no question that putin is willing to be vicious.
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he doesn't understand in a personal way how brutal combat is on his own troops, let alone on the enemy and civilians. so you have to ask what might he do to the city? and a lot of people are asking that question right now. and facing the grim reality of just a brutal toll on ukrainian civilians, not to mention these brave volunteers in the army. but you also have to ask if that doesn't even go well, if his troops continue to get stalled, remember, they're stalled outside the city right now. what happens when they try to go in? then might he resort to something else? we have to talk about that strategically. we have to talk about whether we need an off-ramp here because i'll tell you, i'm thrilled with how well the ukrainian resistance is holding up. i'm more concerned now about what putin might do. >> congressman moulton, i appreciate your time tonight and your experience.
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stay with cnn for the latest from ukraine. the news continues. i want to turn things over now to don and "don lemon tonight." don? >> hey, anderson. i've been asking people there when they come on to do an int vup what is the neighborhood like around you? you have been able to go out and talk to people. i saw your story. you were interviewing these people in a bar. and instead of making cocktails they're making molotov cocktails. talk to me about what's going on. it's interesting to hear and to walk through those neighborhoods. >> yeah, you know, i've never been in a place at war in which the population, the civilian population is so united with determination to fight and fight back against an invading force. the last time i guess i saw this
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