i recently had a very personal conversation with cnn's clarissa ward about the personal side of covering this conflict for cnn. it's a cnn podcast called "tug of war," you can open your camera on your phone right now and scan the qr code on the bottom of your screen for a link to listen to it. or you can find it in your

favorite podcast app wherever you listen to podcasts. we talked a lot about the importance of bearing witness to all that's happening here, and what it's like for her doing this, you know, week after week, month after month, year after year. the horror of it but also the moment of kindness she has witnessed, the extraordinary perseverance of people here and what it's like to be a war correspondent. it's a fascinating conversation. i hope you can listen to it. stay with cnn for the latest from ukraine. the news continues. we're going to turn things over to don for "don lemon tonight." >> i want to talk about the images we're seeing, the cradle to grave destruction of the ukrainian people and what they're calling a mass genocide. the pictures earlier from the maternity ward, and the new pictures in, mass graves in mariupol of ukrainians burying their own. they have to do it quickly so they can get back to the fight, and again, anderson, as i said,

the women in the maternity ward, the babies in the maternity ward, ukrainians bearing witness, and really just mass destruction, it's overwhelming and abominable. graves is a horrific thing. we saw the tsunami in sri lanka in survive. a situation like thris, the ground is frozen, it's difficult to bury, the city is under siege, it's dangerous to be outside, digging graves, and you have large numbers of fatalities in a short amount of time, it can become overwhelming and for a number of reasons they end up using mass graves and it's horrific to see. it is, again, one of the, you know, there's little dignity often in war, and that is one of the indignities of war. >> amen. anderson, thank you very much, we'll see you tomorrow. get some rest, be safe. i appreciate it. so this is "don lemon

tonight", and this is our breaking news. let's put this up before i go on with this. put the pictures back up. this is what we're dealing with, mass graves, and these are ukrainians who are burying their own people, and they're doing it because they don't really have time to do individual funerals, and say good-bye to their loved ones. they've got to put them in the ground, get back to the fight, and get back to the struggle to try to make sure that more people, more of their own people won't die in this. i know that it's hard to watch, but this is what happens in war, and this is why we are covering this 24 hours a day, live here on cnn so that you can witness for yourself what these people are dealing with. as they say, i know it's a cliche, war is hell. it's certainly true. and a warning tonight, we are seeing that, but the horror could get even worse that the ukrainian people are seeing and dealing with, much much worse. the white house is warning tonight that russia could use

chemical weapons in ukraine. the white house press secretary jen psaki tweeting, we should all be on the lookout for russia to use chemical or biological weapons in ukraine or create a false flag operation using them. it's a clear pattern. that as we're just learning, we're just hours away from a high stakes meeting, the first since the invasion began between the foreign ministers for ukraine and russia, and the vice president kamala harris is in poland for meetings in the midst of the mess over poland's plan to get mig-29 fighter jets into ukraine, and the pentagon's rejection of that plan. russia is doubling down on its attacks. there's new video of air stristrikes in the city of zytamir.

the city's mayor saying a power plant and civilian building were hit. there is fighting in the streets in the city of mykolaiv. ukrainian troops armed with shoulder fired missiles, there's explosion, and no word on whether any of the soldiers were injured there. but the disturbing video we're getting from mariupol, a city under siege shows the depravity of what vladimir putin is doing to ukraine. the complete disregard of lives of innocent civilians, a maternity and children's hospital bombed, and it's almost hard to tell what you're looking at. the destruction is so total there. look at the rubble. windows completely blown out. broken glass, but in the moments before this happened, pregnant women, mothers, babies, they were here. they were in that maternity ward. we can see what looks like a pink changing table there. this was a hospital where babies are supposed to come into the

world, and this is the world they were born into. an injured pregnant woman naking h -- making her way down the stairs after the attack. another being carried out on a stretcher. she looks absolutely shocked by all of this. a medical worker walking past a blood-soaked bed in the midst of rubble. this is a satellite photo of the hospital before the attack. and this is the size of the massive crater left after it was attacked. look at that. can we play those again? this is a before that we're going to look at. that's a before, and this is the size of the crater afterwards. yeah, you're seeing someone standing inside it. that's how big it is, how horrible the destruction is. the ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy calls the bombing proof of a genocide of ukrainians taking place, and

demands to know what kind of country destroys maternity wards. >> translator: children's hospital? maternity ward? why were they a threat to russian federation? what kind of country is russian federation that is afraid of hospitals? afraid of maternity wards and destroys them. >> straight now to cnn's michael holmes, live in lviv. kaitlan collins at the white house. hello to both of you. michael, the latest to come out of russia's invasion of ukraine, a maternity hospital bombed. it's unthinkable. as president zelenskyy reiterates his calls for a no fly zone. what are you hearing tonight on the ground? >> reporter: yeah, we talked a lot about mariupol, haven't we, don, and how it's been pretty much surrounded. how important it is strategically for the russians to link up forces from crimea to the south from those break away republics and the donbas in the north. utter outrage in this country

and around the world at what happened to that hospital in mariupol. you just heard president zelenskyy there, he said the bombing is proof of a genocide of ukrainians taking place in that video message he posted on telegram last night. russia, trying to get its message straight, frankly, the russian ambassador to france said it wasn't russia, basically saying we didn't do it, and the russian foreign ministry spokesperson incredibly accusing ukraine of using that hospital for combat positions and clearing out patients ahead of time, but you're looking at the videos and the photographs, they clearly show otherwise. those images of, you know, wounded heavily pregnant patients being carried out after the bombing staff. bo bodies being collected, and by the way, don, the world health organization yesterday said they have verified 18 attacks on health care facilities in this country. th health workers, ambulances and so on. the denials, the deflections

they're pretty easy from russia when civilians are hit like this. the notion that somehow ukrainians would carry out this outrage on themselves, pretty hard to swallow, and the videos, you know, belie those denials, don. >> kaitlan, the white house is warning that russia could use chemical weapons in ukraine, could this change the nato involvement at all? >> reporter: it's not clear yet. they haven't said either way what a red line would be for the united states, for nato when it comes to this. of course so far the very clear line from the white house is they are not going to u.s. forces involved what's happening on the ground in ukraine. when you look at the images, it's hard to imagine how it could get much worse than bombing a hospital where pregnant women are escorted out on stretchers. the white house is concerned about just that, potentially president putin could be threatening to use biological

weapons. it came after several days of accusations from russian officials that the united states was developing biological weapons in ukraine. jen psaki said it's false and a conspiracy theory that's been echoed by chinese officials in recently days. they're saying it's not true, but their concern is putin is following a track record you've seen before, accusing someone of doing something that he himself is preparing to do to claim it was not russia that did it. as they're saying it wasn't russia that bombed the hospital, instead trying to frame it as a ukrainian issue here, and i think the concern here at the white house is that he could be following in a track record that he has used before. he has used chemical weapons on people before. he has attempted to assassinate people. alexei navalny is in a penal colony at this time. it's not clear if that's a u.s. intelligence assessment saying this is a likelihood that the putin is going to do this or the u.s. is tracking steps he has

taken before leading up to instances like this one, and trying to put the warning out there saying this is something you should be prepared to potentially happen in ukraine. >> michael we have been talking a lot about mariupol. it's very difficult to get into and out of that city or even communicate with people there. doctors without borders is having to communicate with their staffers via audio recordings because of how unreliable and dangerous it is there. they shared with us a dispatch they got from within the city. listen to how this staffer describes the situation under siege. >> in mariupol now, there is no drinking water at all, and nowhere, the people are looking for different sources of water from the ground, like springs in the park, also people collecting water from the roof when the snow melts. people collecting wood to cook

their food. explosion continues. and especially very very bad situation with elderly people, with lonely people, they cannot find even food and they cannot create a fire for themselves to cook their food. so humanitarian disaster here in mariupol. a very bad situation for people with children because they need much much more different supplies and hygiene and they cannot find it anywhere now. >> i mean, michael, it is awful. no drinking water, no food, many people are trapped. what are you hearing about people trying to get out of the country? >> i mean, the numbers just get worse, don, mariupol, as you just played, the mayor says 1,300 dead there alone, we can't confirm those numbers. there are images coming out of

mariupol of mass graves, burying people in trenches. it's just horrible, and you know, we can't confirm the 1,300, but, you know, we do know that there are many many dead there. there are thousands still trapped inside what is an ongoing hell. nationally, at least 2.1 million people have now fled the country, most of them to poland. around half of them children. horrific numbers but what's worse is every humanitarian spokesperson i spoke to says two things, they say they've never seen anything like this in this time frame, and secondly, that it's going to get so much worse. the other thing, too, in this country, don, this country is a major exporter of wheat. and one of the things that's going to be happening in this country, i was talking to the world food program yesterday on my show, and he was saying that there is going to be a hunger crisis in this country overall, and the world better take notice, too, because there is going to be a shortage of wheat around the world as well.

two major exporters of wheat, ukraine and russia, don. >> michael, those images of the mass graves, i mean, it is just awful. one image after the other. one video, one picture, the next is more horrific than the one before. kaitlan thank you, michael, thank you. we'll see your coverage later on live here on cnn. thanks a lot. the world watching in horror as what seems like one atrocity after another takes place in ukraine, and seeing pregnant women bloodied and on stretchers, shocked and horrified the world. the mayor of mariupol says what happened at children's hospital is pure evil. cnn's sam kiley has more now. >> reporter: we're really stretched, whatever cars you have, send them here, he says air strike, maternity hospital, this was russia's response to a global appeal for a cease fire to evacuate a city of a million people, a bomb dropped next to a

maternity hospital in mariupol. it's hospital number three. inside, a frantic search for survivors. early reports say that there were more than a dozen injured. a miraculous outcome to an attempt at a mass killing at a place where lives should begin. many women and children had already fled to underground bunkers after a week of russian bombardment. ukraine's president renewed his pleas for nato to drive russia from this nation's skies after the hospital air strike. >> translator: everything that the occupiers do with mariupol is already beyond atrocity. europeans, ukrainians, citizens of mariupol, today we must be united in condemning this war crime of russia. >> reporter: evacuations from other towns have been more successful but still very limited. around 700 people mostly women and children were bussed out of

the site of europe's biggest nuclear reactor, which was captured recently by russia. >>. >> translator: the shops are empty, there's nothing there. not enough medical supplies, rewe're tired. we need to eat and rest. >> it may seem extraordinary, but these are the lucky ones. they have escaped from the shadow of a nuclear power station and the clutches of russian troops, but in comparison to what people are enduring in mariupol, this is good fortune. yulia volunteers at a refugee center set up to receive people fleeing her hometown of mariupol. it's empty. she has been waiting a week for news from home of her husband evgeni, and daughter yesa. this morning she got a brief call. >> how is your daughter doing? >> any daughter told me she loves me. >> of course she does. actually, how she is alive, she is doing like all of the

children are doing now in mariupol, no food, no drinking water, no electricity. it was minus 5 this night. they have no heat. they are sitting in cold basement. >> her small family is living in a bomb shelter with hundreds of others. she says they can only survive another few days. then they will have to surface. perhaps to face more of this. sam kiley, cnn, zaporizhzhia. i'm going to bring in journalist and author, sebastian young, history may be on the side of ukrainians in this war. his latest book is "freedom," sebastian joins me now. thank you, i appreciate you joining us. >> thank you. >> with all of the destruction of the ukrainian people up ended, it's hard to imagine how much worse the russian invasion could get, and you have a bombing at a maternity war in a hospital, it's horrific.

>> the first war i was in was bosnia, a modern western army encircling cities and bombing them because they can't take them on foot. >> and the new pictures of mass graves of ukrainians burying their own because they have to get back out and fight, they can't do individual burials and funerals. >> seeing that kind of harm come to other people is extremely traumatic to anyone involved, journalists other citizens, it's way more traumatic than being in danger one's self, the people that had to bury the corpses they will be suffering those effects a long time. >> we have heard from the white house that russia may start using chemical weapons, how does this change things? this is a warning from the u.s., but how would it change this war, this invasion? >> i mean, they're terrifying. i mean, i'm sure to people on the ground, i think if he wants to clear out large areas of ukraine, chemical weapons would probably do it.

i don't know where that would land him internationally. assad very well might have used chemical weapons. saddam hussein did. their regime survived that, so i don't know. >> and what does that change? does that do anything for the u.s. response, for nato? does this change the way they react, if you start using chemical weapons, when we thought this horror wouldn't happen, and then the thought of chemical weapons, sebastian. >> there was a response when assad seemed to use chemical weapons, there was a response by the trump administration, i think it was, and now we're talking about a nuclear armed country: the calculations are different. i don't know. i don't work at that level, but i assume -- i mean, the stakes couldn't be higher, right, and you also don't know who's bluffing and when. >> fareed zakaria was on last ni night, he said, listen, there are a number of players involved in this who can destroy the world several times over, with nuclear weapons, and that was really chilling, and it's true.

he's absolutely right. >> it's a strange power. it's like having a hostage, your power comes from having a hostage and threatening to kill the he oostage f you kill the hostage, you have no more power. nuclear weapons are a lot like that. >> i talked about your vanity fair article when we were bringing you in here, the headline says can ukrainian freedom fighters stand up to the russian military. history suggests that they can, and you say successful underdogs have three things in common, and ukraine has all of them. what are they. >> freedom is how underdog groups can defeat greater powers, and fortunately they can or there would be no freedom in the world. the world would be made up of huge fascist megastates and it's not. the things i looked at and this goes from insurgencies all the way to political movements, the civil rights movement, the labor movement in this country, things like that. it's not just war, but the three things you need is first of all you need a sort of historical context where you're fighting

for freedom. freedom is one of the few things that people will die for. they will die to defend their families, their community, and they'll die to make sure that the people they love are free. in fact, the word freedom is der derived from medieval beloved. >> these were men and women training before the war to fight. >> so another component in successful underdog groups is involving women, particularly in mass movements. women have a huge amount of moral authority that men don't always have and despots are sometimes reluctant to kill them in public in mass numbers. i looked at the labor movement in massachusetts in 1912 and this one very frustrated police captain said one cop can handle ten men in the street protests, but it takes ten cops to handle one woman because there's a social sanction against using violence against women that sometimes helps the cause and finally, the third thing you

need is fearless leadership, when you have leaders who aren't willing to die or for that matter, platoon commanders on a battlefield, it never works. zelenskyy clearly is willing to die, and it comes down to the definition of like are you a ukrainian, to be a ukrainian means staying and fighting. i looked at a street gang in chicago in the 1960s to be in the vice lords is to stay and fight when your brothers are in danger and if crow don't, you're not a vice lord. >> sebastian and i were talking about as we were watching the story there, sam kiley, we were talking about it puts everything into perspective about what we deal with in this country and the luxuries and the good fortune that we have to be here. >> yeah, i mean, look, they ordered every male in ukraine to stay and fight, right, talk about in this country government

overreach, in ukraine, heroism. >> always a pleasure to see you. thank you so much. 2 million ref fugees fleein ukraine, two trains tonight. and cnn n is on the scene there right after this. (vo) what makes my heart beat? having everything i want in the place i love. maica. heartbeaof the world. let's go!

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the refugee crisis in ukraine growing by the day. 2 million people have fled the country. most are seeking safety in poland, but many are also heading to other surrounding countries including romania, and that's where we'll find cnn's miguel marquez in the capital of bucharest. hello to you, i understand there are multiple trains carrying refugees arriving there tonight. what are you seeing? >> reporter: yeah, there's one that has just come in, and another one that's been delayed substantially it looks like, but the one that just came in, we've been here the last two mornings, and we've seen that same train come in with just hundreds and hundreds of mostly refugees, it seems coming in from the north of romania. today's wasn't as crowded. the romanians, i have to admit, they seem to be getting much better at handling the flow of this. they have lots of volunteers, they move them into groups.

this van pulled up before the train arrived. it brought fresh food and coffee and everything they'll need for the people who have arrived here. they took them to two different parts of the train station, semiingly depending upon where they're going. i did notice on the board this morning there's a train directly to budapest and hungary. one of the big problems they have had with moving people around is some of them don't have documents, it's very hard to get across borders, romania was paying for a ticket to the romanian border but refugees had to get across hungary, slovakia, poland, and germany, wherever they were going. it was a very difficult long arduous trip. it seems a lot of those issues, paperwork issues are starting to go away, and starting to get very good at dealing with people here in bucharest. they're also opening up the largest public space they have here in the event they need it

for refugees. they can hold up to 2,000 people, don. >> miguel, thank you. just so you know, we lost your video there. you froze for a bit, but we could hear you loud and clear. our thanks to miguel marquez in bucharest. is there a chance for diplomacy to stop the bloodshed in ukraine, i'm going to ask the former ambassador to ukraine. he's next.

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just unbelievable. that shocking video from zhytomyr ukraine, the mayor there says a russian air strike hit a civilian building and power air plant, last night strikes destroyed an apartment building and textile factory in zhytomyr. ukraine president zelenskyy renewed calls far no fly zone over ukraine following the bombing of a maternity hospital. joining me is william taylor, former ambassador to ukraine. ambassador taylor, i appreciate

you joining us. you saw and heard that brutal air strike there. seems to be getting more brutal as the days go on, which is why tomorrow's meeting between the foreign ministers of russia and ukraine is so critical. that meeting is just hours away. do both sides have enough incentive right now to make any sort of a deal? >> well, don, the russians have problems. the russians have problems at home. the russians have problems in ukraine. at home, their economy is just being hammered. the russian people are aware of the problems that this war is causing for them, and they are also starting to see their sons and daughters come back to be buried so president putin has problems at home, which is an incentive for him to look somewhere else. he's got problems in ukraine. his military is not doing well. his military is stalled and its main effort, don, its main

effort is kyiv, and here it is in ukraine it's day 15. it's day 15. people thought, he thought, i'm sure president putin thought in two days he'd be in kyiv. two days he would be in charge of the country. that hasn't happened because the other thing that's going on in ukraine is the incredible resilience of the ukrainian people. incredible resilience of president zelenskyy who is leading the ukrainian people. you've described these in your reports of how the ukrainians are reacting, and they have never been stronger, they have never been more determined. they have never been more committed to that freedom that sebastian talked about. they have never had better leadership than they have right now. they've got a lot going for them, and the discussions between foreign minister lavrov and foreign minister might be critical but only president

putin has finally figured out that he's got problems. >> you talked about president search -- zelenskyy and his leadership, he is discussing crimea and other contested regions. if he was willing to cede them to russia is that a deal worth making. there's an argument that rewards putin for this invasion, but would it be worth it from ukraine's perspective to stop this all-out war? >> so clearly a cease fire is what ukraine needs. ukraine needs to have a cease fire so that their people, their citizens, ukrainians are not being killed going forward, and you've shown how they are being killed. so a cease fire is really important. however, ukrainian people are also committed to ukraine's boundaries of sovereignty, ukr ukr ukraine's territorial integrity. those are not just words for

them. ukraine is a place, and a land, it includes crimea and donbas. i think they will be reluctant, very reluctant to give up their territorial integrity. they may agree to disagree for a long time. i would be surprised if they agree to forego crimea. >> ambassador, the mayor of mariupol is asking for the skies over ukraine to be closed. you're one of 30 foreign policy experts asking president biden to establish a limited no fly zone over humanitarian corridors. how exactly would that work? >> well, don, it's a good question. first of all, we want to raise this issue in a humanitarian context, and mariupol gives us exactly that context. you couldn't have a more horrific humanitarian situation than that. so if there is an agreement for some kind of humanitarian cease fire, humanitarian corridor that

would allow civilians to leave and to go to someplace that's safer, then that agreement ought to be the basis for no flying, no military contact over that corridor, and it's a recognition, we're trying to make the regucognition to make clear that this is an important aspect. if it's a no fly zone, that's one thing, but somehow to deny the russians the ability to attack from the tear, humanitarian corridors, it might be other missile systems. it might be other weapons systems that would do this trick. the brits have suggested something just today that might be able to solve this problem or at least address this problem, but tgsit's the problem of russ aircraft over humanitarian corridors, and other places of course, but especially over humanitarian corridors that we're trying to address. >> ambassador taylor, thank you so much. we'll see you soon, be well. >> thank you, don.

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so president zelenskyy says at least 17 people were wounded in the bombing of a maternity and children's hospital in the besieged city of mariupol. the horrifying scene sparking international outrage. zelenskyy asking tonight why this hospital was a threat to russia and renewing his plea for more help from western allies as the humanitarian situation worsens. we're so glad he's here with us this evening. thank you so much, i appreciate you joining us.

>> thank you. >> as i understand, your parents have been sheltering from russia shelling in mariupol, and we know the maternity hospital there was bombed. you say your childhood home and your school were bombed as well. can you speak to us about how dire the situation is for ukrainians stuck in the city? >> my parents are in mariupol. there is no heating. there is no electricity, water, gas, cell phone, no mobile networks, and any communications, transport. supply of food, supply of water. supply of medicines, and so below freezing, and they live in the basement. my building where i grew up was hit by artillery. my school, my university was destroyed by air bombing.

and in this territory there is no any military infrastructure, and never were. and because of constant shelling, all this infrastructure cannot be repaired. bodies are on the street already. we have in mariupol mass graves. yesterday it's more than 30 people. today it's 50 people. and it's a medieval siege, it's a humanitarian disaster because people melt snow to have water, and in three to five days, the food will be over in the city. and the hunger will begin. and it's more than 300,000 people. it's around 350 to 400,000 people, and a week ago, we have ordinary war, and we asked you, all of you, nato countries and

usa and european union, we asked to help, and you helped. but now it's not an ordinary war anymore. it's now just a terror of residential areas and civil people. >> you said not just an ordinary war anymore, it's terror, you said, of peaceful people. when is the last time you spoke with your parents? are they okay? >> i know that they're alive. that was in midday yesterday. i talked with them three days ago. there is no cell phone network there. there are only several spots in the city where i can go to catch a mobile network. and because of shelling it's pretty -- it's really dangerous. and really, it's not the war anymore. if you are just pretending now it's a war, so you're

accomplices, and president zelenskyy said what was it, a maternity hospital. is it military infrastructure, is my university or the building of my parents is military infrastructure? all the buildings around the building where i grew up was hit by artillery, all of them, every one of them. they're all district where 150,000 people live, where i grew up, near the sea. it's totally destroyed. it has to be demolished after the war. >> i want to continue speaking with you and i can feel your passion and i want to know what's happening with other families and what about these places where people are hiding, how much longer they can do it. and i want to also show you some of the images and get your response right after this break. don't go anywhere. we'll be back with dimitrio.

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and the “zero copays means more money for rumba lessons” plan. find the right plan for you from unitedhealthcare. get medicare with more. so back with me now a ukrainian member of parliament. we have these new satellite i images showing the devastation of mariupol from this invasion. homes, grocery stores, shopping malls destroyed. these are not military locations and we have a new video from earlier this week of protesters showing remarkable courage and anger in the face of russian occupiers. listen to this.

so you have destruction and people showing incredible courage, even if russia can take ukraine, in the face of resistance like this, can they ever hold it? >> they have 400 people yesterday. the russian special forces and that means 400 people are dead as of now. and they took prisoners and they don't, you know, they don't put them in jail. trust me. and that means that it's the same terror and in mariuopl the -- mariupol they're mining escape routes. they're shelling their conveys of humanitarian corridors and trust me, in two years they will ask you, everybody will ask themselves, what did we do when

putin started to kill these people because these people resist and you need to ask your children in ten years what did you do when putin just decided to kill millions of people? it's not just an ordinary war anymore. we all resist we'll win so he decided to kill us all. >> we -- are you still there? he's still there. demetro, listen, we appreciate you joining us. your courage is commendable and please come back and update us on what is happening in ukraine. thanks so much, okay? >> thank you. >> thank you. refugees flooding across borders, civilians taking up arms as russian shelling becomes more indiscriminate and d more s ins -- destructive.

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