staying with cnn from the latest from ukraine. don is in bulgaria tonight. >> today just after we got off the air last night, russian missiles came within 43 miles of the polish border. that is very close to a nato country and as i was speaking to the secretary of defense today, there is concern about that and about, obviously, a direct confrontation with a nato nation. that does happen, there is the

possibility this ratchets up and there might have to be some sort of confrontation. things are, you know, vladimir putin doesn't seem to be backing off right now. things could get worse. let's hope it does not. >> yeah. certainly. we have seen vladimir putin seems immune at this point to the horror that many of his troops are going through, badly supplied, poorly supplied i bogged down, and massive losses in a very short period of time. of course, on the ukrainian side there are severe losses, both amongst civilians and the soldiers. the numbers of that not really clear, but that's what we have been hearing from battalion commanders and others who have spoken about it. but the resistance continues and the determine nice is strong here and this goes on, grinding on day after day. >> i found it interesting, as you were speaking to director clapper and jim sciutto about this display, this sort of

nationalistic display in defiance today and whether that was orchestrated by vladimir putin. as i spoke to the defense secretary today, i mean, certainly talked about the morale of the russian troops, how their hearts don't seem to be in it and they are losing momentum now and, therefore, having to revert to this sort of crude warfare that they are doing by indiscriminately bombing place, especially with children. that rally held today was bizarre. . yeah, it was certainly unlike what we have seen vladimir putin, the way we have seen him behave the last several years. he has been, according to all reports, he has been very isolated. you have seen the bizarre kind of staged photos of him with french president is sitting 20 feet away on a very, very long table. you know, you talk about the low morale of russian troops. contrast that with what is a

high morale among ukrainian forces and among the civilian population. obviously, there is great fear, there is great concern, people's lives are being, you know, ripped from them and yet people here are determined and furious and there is a righteous indignation and righteous fury among everybody here about this invasion and determination to push through and to push against it in whatever way they can. >> all right. anderson, we'll continue on now. thank you very much. be safe. have a good night. see you tomorrow. this is don lemon tonight. i am here in sophia, bulgaria. the cathedral behind me. i have this exclusive interview coming up with the defense secretary lloyd austin. we will have more in a moment. first, the latest developments on what we are seeing here, what's happening in the region. dozens of ukrainian troops reportedly killed at a military

base in mykolaiv following russian strikes. rescuers strike to free survivors from the rubble. it comes as one of the few relatively safe harbors in ukraine and safety is a relative term here. talking about that with anderson. it was hit by russian missiles today. this is the first time russia has hit a target inside lviv. four kricruise missiles fired o the back sea near the airport. ukraine says that two more were intercepted before they could hit their targets. and in mariupol there is now images tonight of what used to be a shopping mall full of people, now utterly destroyed. president volodymr zelenskyy saying today that 130 people have been rescued from that bombed theater where they were sheltering. a theater abwith the word "children" written in russian on the pavement outside. there are fears that hundreds more are still trapped under that rubble. we'll update you on that. the satellite amages of a long

line you have cars fleeing the city. and now as promise the, my interview with defense secretary lloyd austin. a military man who generally keeps a low profile, but this, this is time that has thrust him really on to center stage, traveling from city to city in europe to rally opposition to vladimir putin's war ukraine. and we got some special access throughout the secretary's day today. i was able to speak with him on the plane while en route to bulgaria. >> so good to see you. he is showing morale and defenses in eastern europe and we were there as he welcomed, he was welcomed at the training area in bulgaria. here is our interview. >> thank you for doing this. i appreciate it. thank you. we flew to bulgaria from slovakia where yesterday you reiterated your opposition to a no-fly zone. if that is a commitment of the united states, how do you close

the skies over ukraine? >> don, the president has been very clear about the fact that we won't have troops engaged in come about the with russia in ukraine. in order to effect or put into place a no-fly zone, we'd have to control the skies and that would mean that we'd have to engage russian aircraft. we'd also have to take out our russian anti-aircraft systems in ukraine, in belarus and also in russia. so that would mean that we are in combat with russia. these are two nuclear-powered countries that nobody wants to see engage in a conflict. it's not good for the region. it's not good for the world. >> is the most important position right now for the u.s. is not to engage directly with russia? is that the most important position right now? >> the most important thing is

to make sure that we're doing everything we can to support ukraine in its effort to defend its country and protect its sovereignty. and they have been doing this, we have all been inspired by the courage, their tenacity, their agility. and so that's what we have been focused on. we are focused on making sure that we do everything to protect nato. and so you have seen us rapidly deploy forces to the eastern -- the countries on the eastern edge there, eastern flaung, and you have seen us reassure our allies. the president has been very clear about the fact that we will -- we are committed to article 5 and we are going to do everything within our power to defend every inch of nato territory. >> when you talk about not getting involved, russian missiles hit lviv.

43 miles from poland's border. do you continue to believe that it's possible to engage in this without direct involvement, nato's direct involvement, which would mean u.s. involvement? >> again, don, you know, our focus is making sure that we do everything we can to support ukraine. and certainly i don't want to get involved in any hypotheticals. i don't think that's health. i think we have been clear about what we are focused on here. >> the u.s. has made it very clear they don't want to be involved in a process of giving jets to ukraine. do you support other countries doing it or encourage -- either encourage other countries to do it as long as there is no u.s. involvement? >> don, what other countries do, i mean that's their choice. and the united states certainly does not stand in the way of other countries providing

assistance. but, again, we're going to remain focused on those things that we know are making a difference and what's making a difference in this fight for the ukrainians is the provision of anti-aircraft systems, the provision of armored systems and also things that -- other things that have been effective are the employment of drones. so you have heard the president say most recently what we're doing, the kind of things we are providing. he just -- we just signed -- just provided authorization to provide an additional $1 billion worth of security forces systems. that's remarkable. >> what is your assessment of russian forces now? are they stalled? are they regrouping so that they can increase their assault, increase their violence on ukraine? what is your assessment of the russian military? >> it's hard to tell, don.

they have not progressed as quickly as they would have liked to. i new they envisioned they would move rapidly and very quickly, seize the capital city. they have not been able to do that. they've struggled with logistics. so we've seen a number of missteps along the way. i don't see evidence of good employment of tactical intelligence. i don't see integration of, you know, air capability with the ground maneuver. so there are a number of things that we would expect to have seen that we haven't seen. and the russians really have had some problems. many of their assumptions have not proven to be true as they entered this fight. >> the president is speaking with xi jinping and we are getting reporting that russia has been asking china for drones

and for help. what happens? do you think china will stay out of this and what happens if they don't? >> again, don't want to speculate or get involved in hypotheticals. i would hope that china would not support this despicable act by putin. i would hope that they would recognize a need to respect sovereign territory. and so hard to say what they will do, but, you know, we have been clear that if they do that, we think that's a bad choice. >> putin has raised a spector of possible use of nuclear weapons. i want to first ask you about chemical weapons. we're getting intelligence or we're hearing from intelligence people saying that russia may use chemical weapons and then blame ukraine falsely. the president said if that

happens they will pay a heavy price. what is a heavy price? >> well, you know, again i don't want to speculate about whether or not, you know, what the price would be. i would say if he used chemical weapons, there would be, you know, a negative reaction from the international community, don. in terms of what kind of responses that would come about as a result of that from the international community, left to be seen. but again we certainly would hope that he would choose not to do that. putin could end this today. he has had a number of choices, a number of opportunities along the way to de-escalate and to off-ramp and he has not done that. so we are here today because of the choice of one man. he certainly has options right now. one of those options is to

de-escalate and to seek diplomatic solution to this. >> what about tactical? what about the use of tactical nuclear weapons, he may use so-called small nukes. are you concerned about that? >> again, the use of nuclear weapons is a thing that nobody wants to see. i think, you know, any kind of excessive rhetoric about nuclear weapons and the employment of nuclear weapons is not helpful. but i will tell you that as far as we are concerned, we are confident in our current stance and in our capabilities and our ability to defend ourselves. >> is the u.s. giving tactical advice or any advice, any u.s. forces helping the ukrainian military? >> don, what you see us doing is providing a lot of security force assistance in terms of equipment. we're talking to our counterparts every day, you

know. and, hopefully, i will get a chance to talk to the ukrainian minister of defense soon. but there is always -- there is a constant dialogue ongoing between us and their leadership, and also the leadership of other countries as well. i talked to my colleagues, other ministers of defense. they are engaging the ukrainian munster of defense on a daily basis. >> what about special forces? are they helping the ukrainian military? are they in ukraine at all helping? >> we don't have any forces in ukraine. >> it has been noted, sun t sfl u says build a golden bridge across. what is putin's golden bridge? how do you see this end something? >> by he -- we're here because of his decision to launch this attack. he can make a decision today to

end this and seek a diplomatic solution. he has had a number of opportunities along the way. he has opportunities today to decide do something different. this is not going well for him on the battlefield and there are a number of things that are now coming into play that will make things more difficult for him as he goes forward. >> thank you, mr. secretary. i appreciate it. thank you so much. >> i still has time for an off-ramp diplomatic resolution to this. we shall see if that happens. i have the opportunity to talk more with the secretary of defense while we flew over eastern europe. coming up, what secretary lloyd austin told me when i asked him this. >> i'm sitting here with the secretary of defense. we are in a very tumultuous time. are we going to be okay?

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the plane. so you have to listen closely. here is more of my conversation. >> this is the time for you to -- i watched you yesterday. you were very good. time to do your thing. you were very good yesterday. how did you feel about it? >> it's been 20 years since secretary of testifies has visited slovakia. they are great partners and they are really, really anxious to continue to play a key role in the region and in nato. so i have a great relationship, great conversations with the prime minister and the president as well. >> it's interesting. you are flyingel flying over eastern europe and in a territory that was russian controlled, for it to be free, and then all of a sudden you have ukraine now and they are trying to take it back. it's got to be surreal for you.

>> it is. what's fascinating and very encouraging is that the ukrainians are so focused on, you know, protecting their democracy. having a right to choose for themselves. >> is that -- is there a lesson for americans in that, you think? look at the resolve of the ukrainian people. everybody thought, even putin of course, thought he was going to go in there and they were going to surrender and they said, no way, we are not doing it. it's amazing. is there a lesson for us? >> there are lots of lessons here. and in terms of things that we do to help people, things that, you know, a way that we look at our own society and things that we take for granted, i mean, you know, democracy is what a lot of people around the globe are really craving.

they want the ability to have a say so in their government. so this is very encouraging. >> i am sitting here with the secretary of defense and we are in a very tumultuous time. are we going to be okay? >> we will be. we will be. war is always difficult. it always has -- again, this is wh why we never want to do this. there is no -- there is no easy war. and so this is why we really try everything we could do to prevent this from happening. this is a choice by one man. so here we are. we'll get through this. and, hopefully, we will get through this and ukraine will be a thriving country in the not too distant future.

>> and i want to thank secretary austin and his team for everything they did for the access they gave us today, for being so accommodating. i know it was a very busy time for them. after all, there is a war going on. he was going from phone call to phone call, from meeting to meeting, and we managed to get a little time with him and we are very grateful for that. it's important to the american people, not only to the people here in eastern europe, and ukraine, it is very important to the world. so thank you, secretary austin. and for reaction to what secretary austin said, i want to bring in cnn military analyst and retired air force colonel cedric leighton. thank you very much. before i talk about what happened in that interview, your assessment of the interview and anything that stood out to you that secretary austin said? i found him to be very open, very accommodating. his candor i thought spoke volumes, especially considering the moment that we are in. i thought he spoke as a general and not just a secretary of

defense. >> yeah, absolutely, don. it was an extraordinary interview. and it took me back to some of my days in the pentagon when you've got to interact with senior leaders like that. he gave some very interesting points and i thought as a former intelligence officer i thought it was particularly interesting when he spoke about the lack of intelligence of tactically usable intelligence for the russian forces. i think he is absolutely right about that. it seems to me that in some ways they are going into ukraine surprisingly blind, and that very fact makes it, you know, very difficult just from a military perspective, very difficult to operate. and i think he keyed on that point. i also think it was very interesting how he spoke about what this fight was really all about, the fact that this is for the defense of democracy and it all hinges on the actions of one man, namely, vladimir putin. and i think it was not only right, but extraordinary that he

called putin out very specifically in this case. >> right on. i asked the defense secretary about, as you were talking about putin, his opportunity to get out of this. golden bridges. you know, to retreat across. secretary austin said putin can do that right now, but from where we sit and where you sit, where are those off-ramps? are there any that putin can take? >> it's interesting. >> or would take? >> yeah, that's exactly a great way to look at this. i'm thinking, as i heard secretary austin, i was thinking about which golden bridges specifically would putin potentially take. in this situation i don't see putin actually willingly taking any of them. so i think there is going to have to be pressure from within russia to actually make a golden bridge appear for him. and i think that what we have to

do in this case is provide a mechanism where he finds it very difficult to move forward. and i think the ukrainians of course are trying their best to do that. but, yeah, the golden bridge i think is going to have to appear. it's not going to be something that is magical. we will have to help create that. >> colonel, i need to put up these images. this is what putin did today. i spoke about it a little bit ago with anderson. we had a very good conversation earlier. moscow celebrating the anniversary of annexation of crimea. tens of thousands of russians waving flags, some of them cnn learned were pressured to go by government officials. but this is what putin told the crowd. here it is. >> translator: the best proof is the way our boys are fighting in this operation. shoulder to shoulder, supporting each other and if need be protecting each other like brothers. shielding one another with their

bodies inon the battlefield. we haven't had this unity for a long time. >> what is the point of this propaganda display, colonel? >> i think he was trying to respond to the adulation that zelenskyy, president zelenskyy of ukraine is getting around the world for his leadership in this effort, and putin doesn't want to seem to be in a weaker position vis-a-vis zelenskyy. so there was, i think, a bit of, you know, an attempt at least at some degree of one-upmanship in the pr department. i looked at this kind of propaganda going back, you know, world war i and other wars and it remind me of some of the things that the germans would employ for domestic audiences in both world wars and also what the soviet union employed in world war ii. this effort at national unity, at in essence forcing a degree

of national unity where perhaps there isn't that real strong bond that he would like to have, that putin would like to have. i think there was an attempt to forge that bond. >> colonel, russian foreign minister sergey lavrov said today any weapons, shipments enter ukraine sh, quote, are legitimate targets for russia. what is the potential for danger? >> it's a high potential, don. the idea that they would perhaps cut off the supply lines from nato countries into ukraine is certainly, it's, obviously, crossed their minds, based not only on lavrov's statements but the actions of the russian military. so i think the danger of something happening to some of those shipments is very high. we can expect to lose some of those shipments or have them destroyed in air attacks, missile attacks, you know, things like that. but i do believe that it is still an effort that needs to be

fostered and it's something that we have to do in spite of russia's threats. but, yeah, they will absolutely try to include this in their war campaign and we have to be prepared that they are going to be some losses in this area. >> i think one of the most important questions i asked today was about china, right, and the secretary said that he hopes -- the president spoke with kp ixi jinping today. he hopes china doesn't get involved our president laying out the consequences if china gets involved, providing material support to russia. how does the state of play shift if that does happen? because what the secretary said is he said we hope that china stays out of this. overall, his overall response to that and chemical weapons and nuclear weapons, everything that happens, he says that they are hoping not to have a direct involvement with russia. so china gets involved, if there are chemical weapons, nuclear weapons or what have you, he

said that they are there to enforce article 5. i thought that was really important that he said that. what exactly does that mean, that is the question, right? >> yeah, absolutely, don. and, you know, so article 5, of course, that's the provision in the nato treaty that is basically if i'm attacked, i am going to expect you to help me. if you're attacked, i will help you. and that's, you know, something that has been sacrosanct from the founding of nato to the present day. if china gets involved, you know, they don't have a treaty as iron a clad as that with russia. but it would certainly show that china was picking sides. in this case, you know, from our point of view, the wrong side. so if the chinese do that, if they provide material aid that is beyond meals ready to eat or something of a relatively benign

logistical neighbor and goaes into lethal weaponry, they have to be considered to be a cobelligerent and that will change the dynamic between the united states and china but between china and the rest of the world. it would also serve to solidify the differences between the authoritarian side of the world, which includes russia and china, and the more democratic side of the world, which of course is us and the nato countries. and that is something that we would perhaps see if it goes really badly, see the advent of a new cold war. of course, we hope to manage that better and that would be the idea that secretary austin was talking about, that it's managed in way that it doesn't go down that path. i think we have the possibility of doing that from an economic standpoint, china cannot afford to lose a lot of the business revenue that it gets from its relationships in eastern europe and that is something that they should keep in mind.

>> colonel, i want to go a little bit longer with you and ask you what you think about this. this is revealed, this conflict has revealed a weakness in the russian military. the defense secretary spoke of that today. do you believe it is also revealed a weakness on the part of vladimir putin because he has not accomplished what he had hoped to accomplish, and that is to further divide the united states, to further divide nato, to take over ukraine and basically what they believe is have a victory parade soon after just going in and invading ukraine, that has not happened. do you see the possibility of a future maybe in the near future without a vladimir putin and, if so, what does that mean for nato? what does that mean for the world? >> yeah, i do see that possibilities. it may not happen tomorrow. it may not happen next year, but it can certainly happen. at some point it will happen. everybody is mortal. even putin.

but the issue that i think faces us when we look at putin is the question, what comes after putin? we have to be cognizant of the fact that it is the russian people that will have to decide whether or not they want to continue with the kind of society and the kind of government that putin has created, or if they want to change. and they are going to have to figure out whether they want to join the family of nations. they had a chance to do that in the '90s. they almost achieved it and then, of course, it descended into the mess that then resulted in putin becoming the president. but if they want to change, if they want to join the family of nations and be respected again as a nation, the russians will have to make a change in leadership and i think most people in the west would welcome that. >> colonel, i always learn so much from you. we love speaking to you and having you at the wall showing us the strategic possibilities

and what is happening on the ground here as it relates to this conflict. thank you very much. we appreciate you joining us. see you soon. >> any time. thank you so much. his city pummeled, no food, no water, no electricity. bodies in the street and he had to get his 5-year-old son out. we will speak with the head of a university in mariupol who escaped right after this.

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. we have been reporting on the horrors happening in the ukrainian city of mariupol. much of it has been destroyed by constant russian shelling. the latest targets a giant shopping mall now sitting completely in ruins and an apartment complex really completely destroyed. hundreds and hundreds of residents forced to run for their lives. city officials say mariupol suffering 50 to 100 russian attacks every day. i want to bring in the leader of the mariupol state university. thank you for joining us. you described mariupol as hell on earth. your house was right at the front lines, no water no, food, no electricity. please tell us about your last days there. >> yeah. as you have mentioned, it was really a tale because the d attacks from different kinds of

weapons. and actually we spent the last -- >> i can't hear him. >> hello? >> it's okay now. >> okay. mykola. i can't hear you, so -- mykola, i can't hear you. we will take a break. technical difficulties which happens. we will come back and, hopefully, have mykola on the other side. is infused with hyalururonic and peptide serums to make yourur skin feel smoother and more radiant. new dove body love. face care ingredients now in the shower.

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before the break we were talking about the assault on mariupol and i want to bring in now mykola back in. mykola trofymenko, the leader of the university there in mariupol

university there. so, thank you for joining us again. sorry we had the technical problem. you described mariupol as hell on earth. as said, your house on the front lines, no food, water, electricity. your last days there, please describe to us again, mykola. >> yeah. so we faced the russian attacks without any breaks from different kind of weapons. and the last were air attacks with the planes, huge bombs. other [ inaudible ]. actually, it was hell because it

was impossible to go out without any connection. impossible to contact people. and i am now trying to find out [ inaudible ] people from my -- they there were about six money people were alive. i don't know. it was impossible to find out this information. and i know that we have thousands, thousands people. thousands in mariupol. and without food, we will have people that will be dead from hunger, that will be killed from hunger, actually. >> you make a distinct. you said we will be dead from

hunger and killed from hunger. you believe, obviously, that this is intentional. you think this is a killing -- >> i don't know. >> of the people of mariupol? >> as i mentioned in the previous part of your program, that putin is it. putin -- what putin did in ukraine. but these bombs from the planes, they were thrown by russian soldiers. i don't know how they will sleep at the night when they will -- and they understand that they are throwing bombs on the civilians, on the shelters with the thousands of people, children inside. this is genocide, actually. >> you have a 5-year-old son yourself. how is he handling this? what do you tell him, mykola?

>> i don't know. but my son, when he hear the airplanes or other bombings, he was trying to tell to these people, please stop. stop shooting. because he knows that if he will hear this noise, he should run to the shelter or somewhere, a safe place in the corridors, the flat, and he was -- i don't know if he understands what is happening, but i think he has -- he will have psychological problems. actually, i believe that i have psychological problems because for the last two days sleeping without noises of bombs, it's --

i don't know. it's a real shock for us. and i want to mention that mariupol, it's almost more than 500,000 people city that was very dynamically developed for the last six years with a brand-new transport system, with a great infrastructure programs. and it's totally destroyed now. my university, the buildings of my university were totally destroyed. totally. i don't know what my state university have done to the neighbor, the neighbor country, but it was destroyed. we don't have buildings now. it was bombed. bombed with huge, huge bombs.

>> well, mykola -- >> and i have political science, have participated in several programs in the united states and actually the last one in seattle. it was about the propaganda and disinformation. and now really we are hearing that russians are trying to tell us but they are doing genocide now to people of mariupol citizens because after these three weeks siege, they have to find a way how to go out of the city and it's more than half of a million

people that will be idp in europe. i don't believe this, actually. i still don't -- >> there is a russian -- >> yeah. >> there is a russian disinformation campaign, you're absolutely right about that. many in russia do believe that what vladimir putin is doing to the people of ukraine -- >> supporting what he's doing. >> they are believing that, yeah. listen, we want you to be safe. be safe, you and juryour son. we know there is an assault on mariupol and we'll continue to cover it for you and get the information out, but it is everyone's -- >> i think that it's highly, highly important for the out world, our partners, the united states to find a way how to close the sky.

the sky. because the last week with this bombings, with jets and the war planes flying every ten minutes and throwing bombs on peaceful mariupol, it was really disaster. we should find a way how to close the sky. i don't know how many victims we have. it's tens, thousands of people and we can't even bury them. they are lying on the streets in the center of europe and we can't stop this. how it's possible? we should find a way to close the sky. >> we hear you. we hear you. we have asked officials that and we'll continue to ask. thank you very much. appreciate it. please be safe. we'll be right back. everyone. thank you. >> thank you. his future became my focus..

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we are breaking news we have to report to you now. republican representative don young of alaska, the longest serving member of the current congress died at the age of 88. that is according to a statement from his office. he was first sworn in in congress to congress after winning a special election that was back on march 6th of 1973. we will continue to update you. and now, vladimir putin trying to hide the truth from his own people making students and people attend a live rally. more from our coverage in eastern europe after this.

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