tv Don Lemon Tonight CNN April 4, 2022 7:00pm-8:00pm PDT
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>> how are you? you just arrived in ukraine. what are your impressions there on the ground? >> well, if the russians thought that their atrocities were going to get the ukrainian people to sit down and shut up and surrender, this is what we saw when we entered lviv. on the right you see a sign welcoming us to the city. that's lviv in ukrainian. on the left this massive sign that reads "russian occupier go f yourself." that's the big banner right there. i got to say, it does feel, don, like we are entering this new -- a new phase kind of that, the slaughter of civilians, what we saw in bucha, it's not an errant missile strike, not an accident. this is execution-style killing of innocent civilians. >> yeah. and let's hope those who are responsible are held accountable as much as, as many as can i, i should say. jake, thank you. see you tomorrow.
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get rest, my friend. thanks so much. this is "don lemon tonight." our breaking news. president volodymr zelenskyy warning of untold civilian casualties in liberated ukrainian cities. >> translator: there is already information that the number of victims of the occupiers may be higher in some other liberated cities. in many villages of the l liberated districts of the regions, the occupiers is things that the locals had not seen even during the nazi occupation 80 years ago. the ok pieccupiers will bear responsibility. >> the world reacting in horror to what we have seen in kyiv, the suburb of bucha. civilians facing a brutal cruel enemy an paying a terrible price for it. it is painful to look at these pictures that i'm about to show you. they are graphic and disturbing.
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the warning we give you to tell you that you should brace for it, brace yourself, but can you ever be prepared for this? for people, for human beings killed and left in the streets where they fell? for the world to see and bear witness? look at that. russian troops retreated and this is what they left behind. some people shot execution style. some allegedly tortured. one monan surrounded by what los like his groceries, a bag of potatoes spilled in the road. another next to a bicycle. a dog sitting besides him. some people with their hands still tied behind their backs. ukraine ace foreign minister says that the horrors in bucha are just the tip of the iceberg. it's hard to believe the inhumanity. and that's exactly why it is important not to look away.
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that's tough. look, when i was there and i spoke to -- on my last day there, the journalist, who works for one of the news networks, some of the things she was surprised that the american media could even show on television. for them, there is an editorial decision. they make an editorial decision by wondering if the people there are dealing with too much to see the images. we had a conversation about i said we should show them so that the world could see the horror, we shouldn't cover it up. that's why people would support them. that's why the u.s. citizens, u.s. government, nato would give them what they needed in order to fight this war. and i do think it's important to see those images, that we can't turn away. it is why we have a free press and why we want to continue to
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be able to have a free press so we don't end up in a situation that's nearly as horrible as what is happening in ukraine because of russia. someone loved these people that you saw there in those images. not just images. it's real. they had people that they loved, right? they lived. and now they are dead. it took less than six weeks for their suburb to turn into a hellscape. the images you are seeing with your own eyes are the truth of what is happening in ukraine right now. the truth of what vladimir putin is doing. president of the united states joe biden saying that the death and destruction in bucha is a war crime and calling for putin to stand trial. >> he is war criminal. we have to gather all the details so this can be -- have a war crime trial. this guy is brutal. what is happening in bucha is
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outrageous. >> people in bucha doing what would have been unthinkable just a few weeks ago, collecting the dead bodies of their neighbors. phil black has more now. phil. >> reporter: don, this is more than just the indifference to civilian life. we have seen throughout this war, through russia's continuous bombardment of people's homes and other non-military targets, what we are hearing from bucha and other areas russia pulled back from, what the disturbing images show is that civilians were targeted, deliberately killed. some execution style. some tortured as well. there is little point closing the back doors of this van. it's stopping frequently, picking up those who didn't survive russia's brief occupation of bucha. each person is photographed. where possible, i.d. is checked. and where necessary, bindings
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are removed. their clothes, their belongings and in some cases their restraints all indicate these people were a threat to no one in the moments before they were killed. in normal times he is painter. now he collects bodies. this one was carrying potatoes, he says. you can see they are all civilians and snipers shot hem all in the head. this is how they were having fun. tatyana weeps besides her husband's shallow grave. she says he was taken from their home and weeks later found in a basement, tortured, mutilated, shot in the head. crane's defense ministry released this video of another basement in bucha. a cnn team visited the site and saw five dead men. their hands were tied. most were shot in the head and legs.
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president zelenskyy came to bucha and walked its streets saying -- it's very difficult to negotiate with russia when you see what they have done here. ukraine says it will investigate russia's war crimes. the european union says it will help. no need, says russia. because all of this has been staged. a resident says this equally sincere message was scribbled with lipstick in a bucha home by a russian soldier. thanks for the warm welcome, it says. sorry about the mess. russia's mess. the extraordinary suffering. death and trauma inflicted during just a few weeks of occupation is only starting to understood. for those who live through it, it's unlikely to ever be forgiven. russian officials have denied its forces were responsible in a series of statements insisting everything you just saw and more is fake, that it's been staged.
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but western governments a absolutely of the view no one else could be responsible for these atrocities. the concern in ukraine is that what we're seeing in bucha is a small window into what may have been happening in russian-occupied areas across ukraine from the very earliest days of the war. don. >> phil black, thank you so much. i want to bring in photojournalist, whose powerful pictures in "the washington post" bring home the horror of vladimir putin's war in bucha. heidi, how are you? >> i'm fine. thank you. thank you so much for having me. this is also an important opportunity to show the world that actually is happening here. >> yeah. look, heidi, we've got to warn you about these photos that you took in bucha. they are incredibly graphic.
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it shows volunteers collecting bodies and placing them in bags. tell me more about what you witnessed, please. >> i saw -- i counted the bodies of eight males. some of them had their hands bonded behind their backs. the volunteers were cutting the tape. it was clear plastic. their hands were really heavily bonded behind their backs. you could clearly see that these men were civilians. i saw that many of them had been shot in the head. some were shot in the waist area. and one by one the volunteers put them in body bags and then carried them to a white van and loaded their bodies up. it was -- it was a horrific
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scene, and, unfortunately, i think we are just scratching the surface of the horror that is unfolding during this war. >> yeah. yeah. there is another photo that you took in bucha and it shows a woman standing outside her damaged home with her fists up in the air. her name is larissa svenko. >> yes. >> what is she tell you about her interaction with russian forces? >> first of all, she never fled. and she has been living under this horror since february 27th she said. she said that her son even counted -- let me back up and explain. i mean, all of this fighting on her street was just, you know, you couldn't even count how many russian military vehicles were in between this road of houses on either side. and she told me that her son
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even counted at one time 72 vehicles. and the troops, the russian troops actually entered her house, she said, and demanded her documents, demanded her cellphone, and told her that she's -- she should consider herself very lucky because any other troops would have shott hr in the head. she was bunkering down in the basement, but she could see from a window that her neighbor's house was on fire. she told me that one of her neighbors had tried to stop one of the russian tanks and they just shot him. and, i mean, the stories are just -- it's really hard to imagine that these stories are even true. i mean, we are in europe. this is 2022. the more stories we're listening to, it's just -- it becomes more
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horrific as we -- as people tell us about what they endured. living under russian occupation here. >> look, there is another photo. let's talk about the photo and then i'll talk to you about this later. talk to me yabout this feet you took in irpin, a woman from bucha sitting amongst destroyed cars. where was she going? >> yes yes. she was fleeing bucha in the very beginning when the ukrainian forces were liberating bucha and she was disabled. you can see that she is with a walker. she was actually trying to flee. tfs a day that a lot of elderly people were being helped out by volunteers. it was freezing that day. she was sitting, as you can see, in the middle of all of these
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cars that are upside down and burned. there was missile strikes on this bridge. i had been covering this bridge area for weeks. and she just was waiting for a really long time. she spoke of horrific circumstances. she talked about people seeing her neighbors killed. another woman i met also was disabled and she was in the back of a van and had a letter to her son written with a phone number. people -- these people were in shock. you but you could see that they were grateful to finally escape the conditions that they had been living under. it was not easy. you have to understand that a lot of people didn't want to leave. they suspect want to leave their houses. they had nowhere to go.
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they didn't have money. many of the people, especially the elderly, are disabled. and they stayed. and, you know, to the very end in bucha. we met -- i met a lot of people that had stayed because they just felt that they had no choice. and no way to escape because a lot of the people that were trying to escape and flee towards irpin were killed on the way. i mean, i saw another man that had been killed as well laying amongst all of his groceries on the road towards irpin. >> is this the guy with the potatoes? you can see the potatoes in his bag? it was like a plastic grocery bag? i'm sure there were a number of folks like that. >> no. this is a different man. and he actually had -- the man i'm talking about had a white band on his arm. so, you know, of course, you know, a white flag, a white band, a white tie on a car is a
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sign that you're a civilian and you're trying to flee in peace. you're not a threat. and as we have seen, civilians were deliberately targeted >> just slaughtered. you also took a fphoto in bucha. ukrainian soldiers walking in front of destroyed russian vehicles. did you learn anything about what the fighting was like to do this kind of damage? >> well, back to louisa, can you imagine that all of those vehicles were just right in front of her house? so, you know, this population was living under bombardment for weeks. i mean, the russians were in there since february 27th. they were trying to hide in their basements. there was no cellphone
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connection. when you're down in the basement, people don't want to -- even if there was electricity, you don't want to turn it on because you don't want the troops to know that someone's in the house. so people are just living in complete fear. and as we see, have suffered so much loss. they have lost their homes. they've lost their loved ones. they've lost their neighbors. >> yeah. heidi, i don't even have words. you are very brave to be there shooting it. everyone is sorry for what the folks are dealing with. we appreciate you documenting this and chronicling it so people know what's going on. thank you. >> thank you. thank you very much. >> please be safe. >> thank you. you, too. >> so i want to go to cnn military analyst and retired air force colonel cedric clayton. before we talk about what's
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happening, what i was going to tell heidi, when you talk to the ukrainian people, they try to be strong. they don't want to cry or show emotion until the passion comes in and they get very on mated when you ask them about vladimir putin. i have a group of students i interviewed today here in the united states, now refugees, and they kept -- you know, i got to study, do this, i am worried about my mom, and the moment you ask them about vladimir putin they break town and start crying and say he is a monster. and that's -- for my cnn show i will interview them. but pretty much everybody i interviewed, they have a particular ire, and good reason, for vladimir putin. they hate him. hate him. >> i could only imagine, don. this is one. most tragic things that has happened anywhere in the world. for it to happen in a place that we never expected to happen like europe, you know, in the 21st century, that, you know, i think is compounds the feeling that
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they have and i think many of us share that feeling, actually. >> yeah. so let's talk about the photo. the interview i did in the photos i saw. you have this hideous human carnage who are seeing the shells of russian armor in heidi's focphotographs from buc. i asked frederick fl, i said th tanks, these are all russian tanks. what are you able to tell from these photographs? >> right. well, the top vehicle here is actually a btr-80, armored personnel carrier. these areas right here, these axles are for tires. there are four of them. they are normally on this. all of this has been burned off. every single one of these tires is gone. underneath this btr-80 is a t-72 russian tank. you can see the tracks right here. they are also basically destroyed in, you know, some kind of a fire that they --
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these vehicles, obviously, experienced. but the big thing here is that these vehicles must have been subject to some kind of an attack, probably from the ukrainians, maybe from one of their drones because this kind of chaos that you see right here is not the hallmark of a disciplined convoy. what it is, is chaos, panic, you know, one vehicle running into the other and people fleeing probably from the scene of this. you know, it speaks volumes to what happened in bucha and what happened to the people on that street as well as the soldiers, obviously, in these vehicles. >> you know, the national security advisor jake sullivan saying today, colonel, russia is revising a war aims and the next phase of the invasion will focus on surrounding and overwhelming eastern ukraine. how long and brutal could this next phase be? >> well, don, it could be fairly long and brutal. what you are looking at here is
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a displacement of forces. this is very interesting right now because all of this is light yellow. that means ukrainian controlled. this is the first time that we have seen it to this extent on these maps that we have been showing you for the last few weeks. the russian forces are, of course, in red. and the ones that were here, the russian forces that used to be here, have gone north into belarus and northeast into russia. so what the idea is that they will come around and join the forces that are already in these northeastern areas of ukraine and also the acseparatist fores in donetsk right here. if they do that, that could affect kharkiv, could also effect, depending how they disburse their forces, give impetus to the russian forces in the south to go north into dnipro. if they do that, that could
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potentially cut off ukrainian forces that are trying to protect the eastern flank of ukraine. so this is a danger area for the ukrainians right here and that's something that the ukrainians are going to have to be very careful of. they may want to execute a technical withdrawal in order to minimize the risk to their own forces. it's a dangerous situation for them and this is a potential they might have to deal with. >> when and how does this end? those are the questions. thank you, colonel. one close call for cnn's teams near mykolaiv. you will see the whole thing next. >> down here, john. down here. keep on rolling. you see it over there? ... line? need. liberty biberty— cut. libeberty... are we married to mutual?
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it's good to see you. good to see you're okay. i saw you a couple of days and you got me worried here. your team experienced what ukrainians have to deal with every single day. what happened? >> we were on our way to not the front. we wanted to go behind the front. we were driving along this great open area and we saw some ukrainian troops and in some trenches by the road. we got out. we wanted to know how far the russians were. turns out that they were much closer than we thought. this is an area where there has been a fair amount of outgoing as well as incoming artillery down the road is a town that has been fought over for several days by russian and ukrainian forces. in these vast open spaces the russians seem far away.
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they're not. down here, john, down here. keep on rolling. you see it over there? >> we hugged the earth. two more artillery rounds. >> reporter: oh. our cameraman keeps rolling. alrighty. so we had two incoming rounds responding to artillery firing in the russian directions. those shells came close to us. no one has been injured. the officer tells the translator we need to go now.
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>> run! >> reporter: okay, okay. i don't think it's safe. i hope the car is okay. >> ready? >> reporter: yeah, let's go. and so we run with full body armor to the cars. one car can't move. peppered with shrapnel. we're losing petrol. no time to lose. throw it in the back. the driver razor focused on getting us to safety. his car also hit.
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>> go, go, go, go, go! >> let's go! >> go, go, go! >> all right. now we are trying to get out of this area as quickly as possible. our other car completely destroyed. crammed into this mausmall car, approach closer ground. the producer checks the damage to the car. the soldiers we left behind are still out there. we could leave. they can't. and as we were out there, this city, mykolaiv, was being hit yet again by missiles. in fact, we were woken at 7:00 in the morning by large
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explosions. the first russian missile strike of the day. in the afternoon, there was another strike on the market, killed nine people, wounded a total of 46 on monday. these strikes are mykolaiv are becoming much more regular and, as we've seen, much more deadly. don. >> ben, my goodness. russian forces have been trying to take mykolaiv for weeks. unrelenting shelling there they have been facing. is there a sense that the battle going to get a whole lot worse if russians concentrate their focus away from kyiv? >> the expectation is they are focusing their forces east in the donbas region. what we've seen is that the russians have been significantly pushed back from the outskirts of mykolaiv, but nobody in this
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city is under the impression that the threat has gone away. we have seen city workers cutting down these massive trees in the main boulevards of the city. the intention is to use the large trunks to fortify trenches and barricades around the city. the feeling is that whatever is going to happen, the russians want to punish this city for successfully repulsing the initial russian assault early in the early weeks of the war. so nobody is ruling any possible additional further russian offensive against mykolaiv. don. >> ben, this is what you do. you have been on numerous battlefields and in war zones. you had your wits about you. what were you thinking though? i mean, this could have gone south really quickly. >> i don't want to tell you how close it actually was.
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but, you know, in situations like this the worst thing you can do is panic. fear is good. you should be afraid in these situations because fear is really what protects you. but you just have to keep your head because you know you've got to get out of there. you've got to get to safety as quickly as possible. and i have to say the entire crew kept its head focused. we got out safely. we lost a car, but we got out safely. >> yeah. i'm glad you guys are all safe. the lives are what we are concerned about. i am so happy you are all safe. great work, ben. please are safe, all you have, okay? thanks so much. >> thanks, don. russia trying to claim the horrific scenes in bucha are fake but the evidence is undeniable. the world wants to know will vladimir putin ever face justice?
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and movies added every month... ...there's always something new to discover. and right now, you can get 3 months of apple tv+ free when you sign up. just say “try apple tv+” to get started. it's a movement. with xfinity, it's a way better way to watch. a warning. this next video graphic and disturbing, mass graves in the town of bucha giving the world a closer look at the atrocities as russian forces retreat. but despite what we have seen with our own eyes, russia is working overtime to keep from what is happening from reaching the russian people. a founding partner and washington correspondent at puck. julia, good to have you on to talk about this. i mean, this is, you know, what
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is happening in bucha is unbelievable. many towns, it is appalling. but the russians are calling these images fake. they say the whole scene is staged. and they are threatening to arrest and jail anyone who disseminates information about the atrocities. tell us how russian media is reporting this. >> yeah, it's wild. from the outside at first you think, oh god, it's the same lazy response, it's fake, it's a provocation. and what they mean by provocation is a false flag attempt, something to discredit russia. but i have spent the last two evenings watching kremlin tv cover this, and i have to say, you know, if i had no other energies, if i were sitting somewhere in a rural part of russia or in a small city and i wasn't seeking out independent information and this was just
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all around me, i would totally believe it because they don't just say it's fake. they start showing videos where they say, look, the corpse moved a hand or the corpse was wearing a white armband which means that it was russian, so, therefore, it was shot by ukrainians. and they provide these elaborate explanations that, again, if you have no other -- if you are in an informational vacuum, which russian increasingly is, i would say is, i would believe it. and i'm sure a lot of russians who watch tv, especially older people who trust the television, older people who believe that russia and ukraine should be one country as they used to be for hundreds of years, i would believe it. >> that's why it's so important. i mean, having been there, the importance of a free press. you cannot overstate it. you cannot understate it. you cannot -- >> that's why putin doesn't want a free press, right?
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>> yeah, because he doesn't want information getting out. that is a good lesson for us, especially with what we have been dealing with, the assault on the free press in this country recently. i mean, russia says when they controlled ba.2 bucha, no civilians were killed. look at these. just released satellite images from maxar technologies on the right you see the satellite images taken march 18. on the left corresponding bodies on the street. how important is this in a war crimes investigation you think, julia? >> i think it will be important in a war crimes investigation, but i don't know how far that war crimes investigation will go. you know, are we ever going to see russian military personnel or even senior members of the russian government or even putin himself on trial? i highly doubt it. putin seems to be somewhere deep inside of russia, either in moscow or in a bunker somewhere. i can't imagine how he would be gotten out of there and brought to trial.
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the other thing is that, you know, we saw this before in the summer of -- in july of 2014. russian-backed separatists with the help of the russian military and special services accidentally shot down malaysian airlines flight 17 which was full of civilians. nearly 300 people were killed. this was right over eastern ukraine. and the eu led by the netherlands, which had the most citizens onboard, led a thorough investigation that took many years that really laid out the evidence extremely convincingly, like there was no bones you could pick there. russia had its own investigation. they did their own presentation that showed all kinds of other theories. they put on a defense, you know, a defense argument that muddied the waters and nobody went to trial for that. nobody was punished. and russian people, according to
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the polls, believed their government's version. so we're still going to have this totally bifurcated picture of what the outside world believes about russia, when russians inside russia believe about themselves. >> julia, we always appreciate having you. our time is short tonight. we will have you back soon. thank you so much. a task force makes its first seizure. one russian ole fwark is down. a $90 million luxury yacht. my garden is definitely my passion. my garden is my creative outlet. find more ways to grow at miracle-gro.com
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philip mud is here. i always want to say vladimir putin, volodymr zelenskyy. vladimir putin we're talking about. hi, phil. let's talk about this. a russian billionaire is saying bye-bye to this $90 million super yacht. for rich oligarchs, are they feeling the squeeze on the assets? is that going to help end this war? >> i think it will help. i mean, i think that's only half the question. if you look at what you have do in a case like this, the same thing in an all-out war against al qaeda years ago. you go after them on the war field. you give the ukrainians weapons. you stop trading in rubles. you try to stop the transfer of oil and particularly gas to western europe. and then you go after friends and family who have acquired their money through corruption. so i think it will work. i think people around him are going to start to say, wow, my yacht is gone, i can't travel, i can't pay for my kid's school in london. the other half is you don't have a choice. if you are sitting around the situation room and somebody says
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why don't we sanction the oligarchs, you have to do it. >> yeah. listen, i have heard both sides of this. i have heard what you are saying and other folks say, yeah, if you believe that you don't understand the way the oligarchs work in the -- you heard that, right? >> yeah. say you are sitting around in the situation room. and i have been there many times. someone says we have a lot of options to go after vladimir putin and some of them are significant. for example, anti-tank weapons for the ukrainians. some of them are more p peripheral, going after the money of his associates. do you say no? i don't really care about critics who say it doesn't work. i say sit in the white house and say we are not going do it. >> yeah. so viktor vekselberg, the russian billionaire that owns this yacht, he says he has close ties with putin. he had already been sanctioned by the united states. do you think that these mega rich guys are talking to putin about the fact that it's getting a lot harder to spend their money or do they fear him too
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much to do that? i that they can't send their kids to private school, as you said. >> are they talking about it? >> no, if you look at, for example, how putin humiliated his intelligence minister for questioning him in public, if you look at the stories about defense officials saying they won't speak to putin. you look at the environment min minister who left because he was afraid. there is no way i presume that an oligarch would look at putin and have a different reaction than those government officials who have seen an ex-kgb officer sand say i am not telling him the truth. the truth is not going to penetrate. even these people aren't going to tell putin, i don't think. >> phil, thank you, sir. talk to you soon. here at home ketanji brown jackson is on the path to be confirmed as the first black woman on the supreme court this woke and three gop senators are bucking their party to support her.
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are you a christian author with a book that you're ready to share with the world? get published now, call for your free publisher kit today! this is don lemon, the pentagon seeing more activity in eastern ukraine, and that russia is likely hoping to capture the city of kyiv. the videos, in the town of bucha, it is hard to watch. bodies laying in the streets, many victims some with their hands tied behind their backs. ukraine's president calling it
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genocide. president biden saying this. >> we have to get information, we need to continue to get ukraine the weapons that need to continue the fight and get all of the detail to have a war time trial. >> president volodymyr zelenskyy there could be more bodies. witnessing the carnage there for the world to see. the world is horrified of what happened in bucha. you were there, you witnessed it tell us what you saw. >> devastating scene that is we saw. one of the things that stands out, it has been four days since the russians retreated from bucha. the folks are still finding dead bodies in the cars, and destroyed house, and executed in se
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