pandemic politics. i'm michael smerconish in philadelphia. the covid-19 pandemic has taken the lives of nearly 1 million americans and has profound impact on how we live, how we work, travel, go to school and our mental health. two years on, it's now being used to shape the midterm elections in ways that are inconsistent and down downhypocritical.

consider the border, from early on, the pandemic has been used as a reason to keep the borders closed. in march 2020 under president trump, the cdc first invoked article 42 a health emergency measure allowing the quick expulsion of migrants who could theoretically bringing in a communicable disease but the biden administration has kept title 42 in place even after the widespread availability of a vaccine. now up pressure from progressives and immigration activists, it's scheduled to be lifted on may 23rd, but many republicans and several leading democrats are opposing that change. this week, a warren group of senators issued a new bill to keep title 42 in place called the public health and border security act of 2022. six republicans were joined by five democrats, kyrsten sinema. and joe manchin of west

virginia. h other senate democrats who have spoken out lifting title 42, mark warner of virginia, and raphael warnock. cortez, master and warnock is up for re-election this year. manchin and tester are among the other lawmakers to mention covid in their advocacy. instead, this is largely a debate about immigration, not public health policy. is texas governor abbott threatening to bus migrants to washington, d.c. because he's worried about the spread of disease or is he sounding an alarm about porous borders? many republicans lobbying to keep title 42 in place simultaneously pushing for the end of mask mandates presumably because the pandemic has passed. many democrats apparently agree that the risk of covid has

diminished such that asylum seekers no longer be deterred. but at the same time argue that the pandemic still necessitates giving relief to those who owe money for student loans. this week, the biden administration announced that it's extending a moratorium on federal student loan payments, interest and collections until august 31st, as well as a reset for the roughly 7 million borrowers already in default. democrats who say that covid-related border restrictions need to end are arguing that loan for bbearance needs to continue due to covid. that's not consistent. and republicans who say we need to keep border restrictions tied to covid is unnecessary. that's not consistent either. "the wall street journal" looked at hypocrisy on one side of the aisle when noting this. president biden has used the pandemic to justify by doing by fiat what he can't pass through

congress including his eviction moratorium and vaccine mandate. and now his administration is effectively cancelling student debt on the installment plan. it went on to point out that the pandemic loan pause has cost taxpayers an estimated 100 billion plus. and the new extension will add another 15 to 20 billion. for everyone back to work, who wants to work, when there will be a better time for those who owe to resume making payments? and what about those who met their obligations. does anyone else remember the angry iowa father who conflicted elizabeth warren back on the campaign trail in 2020. >> my daughter was in school and i paid all that money, am i going to get the money back? so you're going to pay for people who doesn't save any money and those of us who did the right thing get screwed. >> look. here's what's missing,

consistency. if you think the pandemic conditions no longer warrant slowing immigration, that it follows that student loan payments can also return to normal. but if you believe the pandemic requires continued denial of those seeking asylum at the border, then logically, we need to provide those who owe on student loans some added time. please show me the politicians who apply that sort of critical thinking instead of ideology. i want to know what you think, this hour. go to my website at smerconish.com. answer this week's survey question, should president biden fulfill his campaign pledge to forgive at least $10,000 pursuant loan borrower. joining me is higher education expert beth akers. she's a senior at the american institute. and author of game of loans as well as making college pay.

you know the administration says these people are suffering and they need additional slack, what are your thoughts? >> well, my thoughts are, that's pretty much a flat-out lie. what we know about student debt who might be surprising to people who don't follow this professionally is that the people with the biggest balances are actually rich people. 60% of student debt is held by the top 40% of the income distribution. this is not a poverty alleviation measure. this is not even targeted subsidy to people who are struggling economically. this is just a flat-out giveaway to people who they need in this upcoming midterm elections. >> i have a chart that i think makes your point. kathryn, put that up. doctors and lawyers get most forgiveness from the pause. there it is. logically, of course doctors and lawyers get the most forgiveness, doctors and lawyers

get the most money, why? because their education is extended. >> exactly. for the barista making coffee in the morning, living at home in their parents' basement, it's a totally a mischaracterization of what's happened here. a lot of people have very small balances. and the people who have big balances are these big earners. >> but i'm not necessarily agreeing with you. i'm recognizing that the bulk of the debt may be with people like myself who extended their education. just because somebody went to law school or med school, doesn't mean they got the scratch to be paying that debt off. >> yeah, great point. so, we talk about these borrowers like they're up a creek without a paddle, the truth is we already have in place a forgiveness program that allows borrowers who are struggling to make reduced monthly payments even could be reduced to zero if they have low incomes. so that's missing from the conversation because it's not politically convenient.

it makes it sound like we really do need these sort of widespread, nontargeted measures. when in fact, we already have something in place with some tweaks could work really well to help the borrowers who do get left behind. >> there's no way this is the final pause, right? politically speaking now, august 31, come on, it's labor day. it's the start of a midterm, you know, final stretch. surely, this is going to get put out yet again beyond the 2022 midterm, right? >> i'd say for sure. so, biden's kind of in a sticky spot, because he promised $10,000 of loan cancellation during his campaign. it's my read, based on things he said that he doesn't want to do that. he could do that through executive action, though it's somewhat questionable legally, but he could if he wanted to. i don't think he wants to. i think what he's doing now is kicking the can down the road on that issue to maintain support on the progressive wing of his party as we go into midterms. >> so here's the -- can we put

that tweet up that she's making reference to. i think it was march of 2020, this was then candidate joe biden. additionally, we should forgive a minimum of $10,000 per purpose on student loans as proposed by senator warren and colleagues, young people and other student debtholders bore the brunt of the last crisis. it shouldn't happen again. and let me ask you, jen psaki was asked about this. here's what she said. >> i don't have any update on that, i would note he would encourage congress to send him a bill cancelling $10,000 in student debt, something he talked about looking forward to signing on the campaign trail. >> so, it sounds to me that the white house position is bring us that legislation, and we will sign it. but he wants congress' buy-in as well. where's that going? that's my survey of the day, where is the cancellation issue going? >> if democrats have wanted this to happen in congress, it would

have happened already. biden knows that they don't have support in congress to make this happen. so, i think he's sitting quite comfortable in saying, yeah, bring this to me in legislation. and i'll happily sign it. and he knows it's going anywhere. he did make this promise in about a year ago in a town hill event, he spoke candidly about this, are you going to do this? you mean to give money to harvard and yale graduates to get their fancy education? i think it revealed what he was thinking, this is a program that doesn't make a lot of sense and maybe he said it because he would be the only major democratic candidate who didn't have a loan forgiveness proposal in his campaign at the time. >> will you react to my opening commentary. i see hypocrisy. i see inconsistency. if you believe that the pandemic is such that we need to again extend this period of forbearance, then doesn't it logically follow that you also think we need to keep in place

title 42. because after all, the pandemic is still roaring and we don't want migrants coming in who will might spread covid? >> i think you're exactly right. this is widely inconsistent. my job is to talk about these things every day and i have a hard time even talking about this as a strategic policy initiative because it's obvious to me it's straight politics. it's getting votes in place for the midterms and i don't think anything continues with this extension. >> dr. akers, thank you for your expertise. appreciate it. what are your thoughts? tweet me at smerconish or go to my facebook page. i will read some social media reaction throughout the course of the program. hit me with it. what about those of us that were responsible adults and paid back our obligations? why do you encourage deadbeats and laziness -- by the way, gordon, i don't think you mean

me, i'm the guy who showed you a videotape of an angry iowa dad said that to senator warren. he said what about me, on behalf of our daughter, we paid our debt. this is why this is such a conundrum. i can't wait to see how you're voting on the survey question today. what about someone tomorrow, someone who will be a freshman in school in the fall of 2022 and takes out a student loan and now looks at forgiveness or forbearance and says what about me? there's not an easy answer to it. go to my website at smerconish.com answer the week's survey question which is asking you, should president biden fulfill his campaign pledge to forgive at least $10,000 per student loan borrower? up ahead, right after russia invaded ukraine, cyberterrorism czar richard clark was on the program. warning that if russia endured

sanctions likely to attack with cyberresponse. is that happening? and multiple taxi on civilians including a missile hit on a train station that killed at least 50. friday, ukrainian president zelenskyy said that what is needed to stop russia is a sanctioned cocktail. why have sanctions been so incremental and so seemingly ineffectual. i will ask the ambassador to poland, mark wharazizin sky. > and tiger woods back in augus augusta.a. how's he doing? man: mom, really?

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and the world had been sanctioning russia ever since. so far, the cyberwar doesn't seem to have yet hit the u.s. this week, attorney general merrick garland announced that the doj had secretly removed malware from around the world, from financial firm pipelines and the electric grid. i thought time to invite back richard clarke to see if he's worried. he served three u.s. presidents on the national security council. he was also a special adviser to cyber security to president george w. bush, his brand-new article comes out on tuesday called "artificial intel intell intelligentsia." >> this week, he did disarm the main intel unit from the russian

military from computer networks around the world. i was worried about your reaction to that. >> well, michael, they didn't disarm the russian military unit but they did take down one network it was preparing to use. remember, president biden said a few days there was evolving intelligence. that was his phrase. evolving intelligence that the russians were getting ready to attack in cyberspace. what that meant, they discovered a network of russian-controlled computer systems in cyberspace, in the u.s. and the fbi got into that network and pretended to be the russian controllers and shut that network down. separately, microsoft found a network that was getting ready to attack. and went to court and got court orders and shut that network down. the russians are getting ready for something. they just haven't pressed the button yet. >> do you think that heretofore,

our defenses have, perhaps, exceeded what you would have anticipated, or that the russians have not yet engaged in a whole cyberwar that perhaps you would have anticipated? >> i think both are true. the russians have perhaps been deterred. biden said if you do it to us, we'll do it to you. and their economy's already spinning, so they probably don't need the damage that we could do with our cyber attack. so, we may, surprisingly to me, we may have deterred them. at least we know this. they haven't done the full-scale attack yet. but our defenses right now are better than they have ever been, because the u.s. government, the fbi, cybercommand, nsa, dhs, they're all up on alert. and they're working more closely with private security companies, private internet security companies than ever before. information that would normally take weeks to pass is now passing in minutes. and it's also passing out to ukraine.

the secret here is that u.s. private companies are working together, all day, all night, every day, with the ukrainian government to help keep the ukrainian networks up. but russia keeps attacking them. and they keep going down. russia has taken down some of the ukrainian military communication systems. >> are the rules of cyberwarfare set, or still being developed? and here's what i'm really thinking. if there's a cyber attack, does it necessitate a response that stays in a cyber attack lane? or could a response to a cyber attack be conventional warfare? >> well, the u.s. government has its own rules. there are no international rules yet. but the u.s. government has said, if there is a major cyber attack on the united states, that does significant damage, we reserve the right to respond, however we deem appropriate. including conventional attacks.

that's why risk of cyberwar is significant, because it could be a slippery slope. it could be a slippery slope to combat between the united states and russia, which we've been trying to avoid. so, yes, cyberwar attacks can do damage, significantly damage, to the economy. but beyond that, they run the risk of escalation. >> just today, there's a report from the associated press raising the specter, the possibility of russia now looking at the american electoral system again. as has been done in the past. i guess my question for richard clarke is which worries you more, our grid, our corporate infrastructure, or our democratic process? as it relates to cyberwarfare. >> you know, all of the above. but if i were trying to get into the mind of the russians which is difficult, i would go after our lng export, our liquid

natural gas export facilities because we're trying to replace liquid natural gas in europe. and we only have a few. i suspect they will target them and perhaps they will target the power grid. all you have to do with the power grid is find the weakest link. while some companies on the grid are doing a good job. others are not. >> richard, the advance copy i have of artificial intelligence already on my night stand. good look on tuesday. thanks for coming back. >> thank you, michael. >> i want to remind you go to my website at smerconish.com. do it this hour. should president biden fulfill his campaign pledge to forgive at least $10,000 per student loan borrower? while you're there, sign up for the daily newsletter. up ahead, every time i hear about sanctions being imposed on russia, i wonder what other sanctions are left to apply? why have we waited so long to

impose every sanction? mark brzezinski is ambassador to poland. he's here to discuss. plus, tiger woods in the hunt for his sixth masters championship after a stunning return to golf this week. i will speak with michael bamburger, an acclaimed sportswriter who documented tiger's last successful return to pro golf. >> my team's done a hell of a job getting me ready. getting the body, after i go and break it out there, they go ahead and repair this at night. you should know this with all the nascar, break it, fix it. i'm good at breaking it. they're good at fixing it. can take one to four days to fully work. pepcid. strong relief for fans of fast. it's still the eaeat fresh refresh, and subway's refreshing their italians. so, we're taking this to italy. refresh. sobecause subway nows has italian-style capicola on the new mozza mt and supreme meats. love the smell of italianood.

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all eyes on the tiger. tiger woods, that is. this week, we saw the remarkable return to the course for one of golf's greatest. it's been a little over a year since a car crash nearly shattered his right leg, tiger woods not ready to exit the stage. he shot a 1 under 71 the first day of his comeback at the masters. friday, had a rough start, but made the cut to contend this weekend finishing at plus 1 for the tournament so far. tiger woods who trails masters lead scottie scheffler by nine strokes scheduled to tee off for his third round at 1:00 p.m. eastern. the numbers don't tell the full story here. this comeback is nothing short of miraculous after the injuries he sustained. >> i can't do much. the ankle is not going to move. i've got rods, plates, pins and screws, a bunch of different things in there. it's never going to move like it used to.

i already had back issues going into this, thousand this compounds it a little bit. >> the last time we saw the 15-time major champ play was at the pnc championship in december with his son charlie, and he was able to use a golf cart to get around the course. woods hasn't walked 18 holes of the tournament since his accident. even with a slight lift, he's navigating the hilly topography of augusta national. so can tiger woods get back to championship form. my next guest has chronicled his previous comeback in his book "the second life of tiger woods." he also co-authored "swinger" which may or may not be about tiger woods. joining me, michael bamberger. michael, regardless of the ending, it's already storybook. what's it like to be there? >> it's exciting to be here. it's always exciting to come to augusta national. like our annual conversation, augusta national is kind of like

the spring flower, but around the country. this year is particularly interesting because of what tiger's doing. i wouldn't quite -- not to be debbie downer from the start, i wouldn't call this storybook because what we're really dealing with here is a calamity, near fatal calamity, just 14 months ago. and the fact that woods has come back from this nearly fatal car crash. and through sheer will has got himself in a place where he can actually walk this very hilly golf course and play at a very high level is remarkable. and it's a testament to the -- >> that's the challenge. michael, the challenge is no cart, he's got to walk. and it's a long course. >> it's a long -- it's a long course. and it's been wet. and he's had -- in his 46 years, he's had all serious injuries to begin with. to compound that with a rod, as he was saying plates and screws.

in one of the other spots you just said, referred to the body. not even like his body. it's like this other thing that other people work on and he works on and gets in shape. where as he's been saying for a while now, a few times a year maybe he can go out and compete. >> you wrote something about your first trip to augusta. i'm going to put it up on the screen because it evidences your great writing and funny as hell. my first trip to augusta was to play the course. i was a working class baseball writer with a connected friend who wasn't in the mob. i flew through philadelphia in a storm at night. and in a private jet, one pilot, one other passenger, smoking with his left hand, drinking with his right. it was terrifying. speak to me about augusta, generally. by the way, i can probably figure out who that friend was, but i won't embarrass you on tv. talk to me about augusta general. and the reaction that tiger is

getting from this crowd. >> you know, all the participants, michael, i'm sure of that. people cling to tiger like people cling to all things that are great in their lives. whether it's, you know, the yankees in the jeter years. we saw with the michael jordan documentary, people can't get enough of a winner. and golf is unique because people are on the stage for such a long time. so, literally, decades and decades after arnold palmer, the truest competitive golfer he would come to augusta every year and be treated like the great golfer he was. there were people who came in the late '90s, early 2000s who saw tiger at the height of his power. the height of his power and youth were concurrent. and they don't want to let go of that. so to see tiger still at it and in this most spectacular setting it sort of brings everything

together. it actually brings whole families together. because multiple generations are drawn to watching the masters on tv for all sorts of different reasons. starting with the fact it's spring. tiger, especially, i think you're excited by the fact that we don't have to say good-bye to a chapter of our life. and thing saying good-bye to things that are meaningful to us is hard for all of us. >> a quick final question. to your trained question, do you see the way he's adapted to his injury. can you detect differences in his swing and stance, or not really? >> i think anybody who's been around golf can. if you compare tiger, 1997, he won his tournament by 12 shots. if you win by one or two, it's luck. if you win by 12, he was so limber, he moves like gumby. he's actually walking quite

well, sometimes, you can see a little limp. it's a much more controlled swing, his body -- you know, he can't really do the work on the lower body, he's got the ankles of a ballerina, but his upper body is built like a linebacker. so he sort of swings appropriately what his body will allow him to do, which is a big upper body swing and lower body swing. my colleague who conferred with an expert on the swing said it much better than i. >> that was a darn good answer. michael enjoy the day. i can't wait to watch. see you soon. i want to remind everybody to answer the question at smerconish.com. i'm told that the social media reaction to this question is as passionate as we've ever had in years we've been doing survey questions. should president biden fulfill his campaign pledge to forgive at least $10,000 pursuant loan borrower? results at the end of the year.

this week, the world saw even more horriors. at this point, why have there been sanctions that been been imposed ambassador mark brzezinski is here to discuss. r. pepcid. strongng relief for fans of fast. (jackie) i've made progress with my mental health.

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but 45 days after the invasion began, and after the evidence that we've seen of recent atrocities in bucha, bodies of civilians tied up, shot, left to rot. and now, crematories where a missile hit a train station killing 50. i'm wondering why every sanction in our arsenal hasn't been levied? when i hear of a new one, i ask why hasn't that been inposed inned days leads up u.s. sanctions included, sanctions on banks, companies, individual oligarchs. controlling technology exports. on holdings of putin, lavrov and others. limiting oligarch's golden passports which they use to skirt sanctions. in march, as the russian aggression stepped up so did the sanctions including banning

russian aircraft, passenger and cargo flights from entering u.s. airspace. controlling exports to military operations. banning imports of russian oil, natural gas and coal. raising tariffs, denying borrowing privileges. restriction luxury export of goods. and other sanctions against russian defense, marine and electronics companies and members of the assembly. and this week, president biden announced additional sanctions targing two of russia's largest banks and those tied with putin including vladimir putin's two eldest daughters. while congress voted overwhelmingly for two bills to punish russia further to suspend normal trade relations with russia and belarus and to ban the use of natural gas and oil. what's left in the arsenal. joining me now, u.s. ambassador to poland mark brzezinski, he

previously served as a diplomat on the national security council. mr. ambassador, thank you for being here. is there anything left in the cookie jar of sanctions that we have not already hit them with. >> mike, thank you for having me, greetings from warsaw, poland, one of the most impacted countries by this crisis. there are more things that we can do, but i think it's important to understand that sanctions take time to work. and the goal of those sanctions is to really press those around vladimir putin. to press those government officials, those financial elites, those business leaders, those tech professionals in the demographic supporting putinism, and supporting this invasion. but they take time to have effect. they take time for the people who are targeted to feel the pain. and they are, thankfully, not our only tool. i think the department of treasury has been terrific in identifying almost 400 people

and amenities around putin to press and to press hard. while at the same time, supplying the ukrainian fighters who have shown the world that they know how to fight. >> is the incremental approach deliberate? and if not, why isn't the full kitchen sink already in? >> i think the incremental approach is deliberate. because we're trying to get president putin to do a diplomatic off-ramp from this crisis. and we're ratcheting them up severely as this crisis getting more severe. now, of course, kramatorsk and bu bucha, they raised to new levels. what we'll see is imposition of maximum of these, but, again, they take time to work. there's fewer places on earth that want this to stop more than here in poland. i'm in the city, the capital city of warsaw, poland.

10%, 10% of this population of this city is now recently arrived ukrainian refugees, hoping to go home, as soon as the war is over and as soon as the russians are thrown out. but unfortunately, it takes time to stop this invasion, because sanctions take time to work. that's the unfortunate fact about sanctions. >> mr. ambassador, yesterday, on my radio program, john lynch, founder of this group called corporate aid for ukraine, joined me from krakow. and told me unbelievable stories about the polish people. and the lengths to which they have gone, without oversight, you know, outside the purview of formal groups that do this. instead, just people responding and providing whatever assistance they can to ukrainians who have had to flee their country. i know you're seeing it every day. share that with the audience. >> sure. and i just really want to share this to my fellow americans through you, mike.

there is a historic epic story ongoing here in poland. poland is a country that has been victimized by nazism, by communism. the world's greatest crimes, the h holocaust have occurred here. and what you see here now are former victims rushing to the border to help victims. it's young people, middle aged people, old people, getting into their cars. going to the border to pick up literally millions of ukrainians pouring across the eight-border crossings like medyka, eastern poland, taking them to their apartments, to their homes. and what's amazing, it is a national policy of the government of poland to put people into homes as soon as they arrive here. not to put them in refugee centers or have them stay in the parks or something like that. they're put in people's homes. and they're given a stipend.

they're given access to education. they're given access to health care. and importantly, they're given access to the job market. one of the things-i been working with john on is aligning the business community. the polish business community, the american community, and the international business community to see what it is they can do to build jobs and opportunities for these newest residents of poland. the refugees from ukraine. >> such a sad story, but what a silver lining and what a credit to the polish people. thank you, mr. ambassador, i appreciate your report. >> thank you, mike. >> let's check in on your social media reaction, tweets, facebook comments stuff from youtube. what do we have? do you seriously still believe putin cares about sanctions? i heard the explanation from the ambassador, he's the career diplomat and expert, and he said that the extremitial approach is an intended approach.

as a lay person, you know from the sideline, watching all of this unfold on television the way that you are, i have just been wondering whatever -- whatever the arsenal is of sanctions, after a missile gets fired at a train station and killins at least 50 seeking to flee their unit in eastern ukraine, all in. put the kitchen sink of sanctions in now. that's my naive opinion. still to come, more of your best and worst tweets and facebook comments. they come into social media, it's off the chart on this survey question. go to smerconish.com and tell me should president biden fulfill his campaign pledge to forgive at least $10,000 pursuant loan borrower? registster for the news liter wn you're there.. liter when you're there. ter when you're there. eter when

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you know that in the white house and wilmington and rehoboth beach, they are waiting to see the result of this week's survey question. right now, should president biden fulfill his campaign pledge to forgive at least $10,000 per student loan borrower? here's the result. pretty close. 52%. a lot of voting. 22,000 and change have voted and 52%, a majority, say, yes, he should. he made the pledge during the course of the campaign and he should. here's some of the social media reaction to today's program, especially on that issue. what do we have? i believe smerconish handpicks the tweets he shows before the show. he has an agenda and it's not always on democracy's side.

he's an "r." that's correct, sandy. and i picked yours today. no, it is ridiculous. my radio show producer tc who is in philadelphia, she monitors the flood of social media that comes on during the course of the program and i see nothing in advance. watch the show regularly and see how i screw them up and you'll know that's the case. more social media. what else do we have? it's not pandemic politics, it's election politics. come on, it's the pandemic being used for the election. the only reason biden is doing this is because it's an election year, i assume what you mean is, the only reason biden is, what, allowing more fore bear rans on the student loan or do you think getting rid of title 42? here is my theory. as is often the case, kyrsten sinema and joe manchin this time and others are doing him a favor because if there's film footage

come may 23rd or thereafter of migrants streaming across the border, the midterm election, it's over, johnny. if americans see that pent-up demand across the border, that will be the end of any opportunity for “d”s to maintain control of the house or the senate. one more, because i think i have opportunity. what is it? only if we can address the cost of higher education first, forgiving loans now isn't fair to those of us who paid our own and those in the future who will have higher loans. it's not the person who satisfied their debt, but it's the person who is going to school in the fall. what are they going to do if everybody else just had theirs canceled? when you go to smerconish.com, we'll leave the survey question up. keep voting. if you haven't done so, register for the daily smerconish newsletter. it's free.

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♪ hello, everyone. thank you so much for joining me this saturday. i'm frederica whitfield. we begin this hour in ukraine. russian forces are said to be regrouping in the east of that country. ukrainian officials bracing for a new onslaught and an attempt of a massive breakthrough attempt by russian forces in donbas. right now, heavy shelling continues in kharkiv. much of the city reduced to ruins as you see here. officials there urging civilians to evacuate in advance of expected heavy