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russian forces are already doing to civilians with conventional weapons. >> translator: maybe somewhere in russia cruelty is respected. but in ukraine, cruelty is despised and punished. >> ukraine's president just tonight. and there are reminders of that cruelty everywhere, especially in areas now liberated in and around the capital kyiv, liberated but so deeply wounded. cnn's phil black discovered today, first as is so often the case, we need to give you a warning because what you will see, this is difficult to see. >> reporter: the operation to recover and investigate bucha's dead is now industrial in its scale. teams of people are working to empty the town's mass grave and many smaller ones. the victims of russia's occupation are being retrieved from the earth. there are so many bodies. rarely do those doing the

digging know the sortories of h each person lived and died. here, two men are being exhumed from the grounds of a small church. the priest who oversaw their first burial didn't know them. he says he thinks one was a scientist, the other, a school bus driver. he thinks they were shot and killed in the street. among the now notorious images from bucha's road of death was this man lying beneath his bike. his name was vladimir. sviatlana is his widow. she says she told her husband, don't go, they're shooting. the tanks are already there. but he insisted on leaving the house. she says the 68-year-old grandfather was killed as soon as he reached the road. his bike is still there.

this building stands near bucha. among those killed here were yulia's parents, natalia and viktor. she says her mother was helping a young, injured woman who had been discarded by russian soldiers when more soldiers suddenly entered their home. she says they came in, shot the woman, shot my mother, and then my father ran out when he heard something was wrong, and they shot him. the young woman was karina. she was 23 years old. karina's mother says police told her her daughter was raped before she was shot. it's more than two weeks since the russians withdrew, and the operation to account for all the bodies they left behind isn't finished. mourning each victim, remembering how they lived, understanding why they died, will take much longer. >> phil, thank you for that

story. those are difficult stories to record, just to watch them in person has got to be gut wrenching. my gratitude. i'm sure people watching, gratitude to your team. the numbers are staggering. putting faces to those names makes it heartbreaking. the next challenge is identifying them. and i wonder how investigators, local officials do that. are they asking the public for help? >> they are in a way. yeah, jim. it is a huge logistical challenge. it is a huge personal challenge for the families who are searching for the bodies of their loved ones. there are so many that are unidentified, that are not yet claimed. authorities have set up a social media database that people can search. it contains details of the bodies, as much details as are known, and pictures. and these pictures, they don't hide. they cannot hide what has happened to these people, what these people have experienced, the suffering, the brutality in

the moments before they died. and to scroll through it is truly harrowing. it's a really distressing experience, and yet that is what ukrainian families have to do in order to track down the bodies or in many cases the remains of those they've lost, jim. >> and listen, the sad fact is, this is a story playing out in many, many ukrainian cities and towns, villages. it is a hard fact of this war. phil black, thanks so much for that reporting. well, given what we saw in bucha and borodyanka, the leveling of the entire city of mariupol, direct attacks, deliberate ones, on hospitals, and the use of weapons designed specifically to kill people, antipersonnel, mines, cluster bombs. it is not hard to make a case that russian tactics in ukraine amount to war crimes on a scale not seen in europe since the atrocities in the former y

yugoslavia or perhaps going back to world war ii. how realistic is it to hold vladimir putin himself directly accountable? persp perspective on that now from sir jeffrey nice who led the persecution at the hague. sir jeffrey, thanks so much for joining us tonight. one focus of all this, right, is the idea of prosecuting vladimir putin himself for war crimes. what would that look like? and the real question is, how practical, how realistic is that? >> the question divides into two parts. how practical is it to have the evidence sufficient to prosecute putin? it's very practical, very easy, i thought very straightforward in this case. whether he will ever be tried depends whether he will fall in the jurisdictions that could try him.

the international criminal court could try him for war crimes and crimes against humanity. but of course you've got to him into the hague for that. and if he stays in office or if he is succeeded by somebody who's happy to allow him to stay in russia, then there's no guarantee that he will be tried. so, there we are. that's the practicalities. >> how should -- how must ukraine and the international community document, right, these alleged war crimes, build a case, in effect? >> well, people are, apart from the prosecutor khan of the international criminal court, it's quite well known that lots and lots of people are in there doing their best to gather information from different organizations on behalf of the ukraine government itself. whether those efforts are properly coordinated or not, i don't know. but i do know there's a lot of effort being put in to ensuring

the evidence is in admissible form, usable form in court. >> given the difficulty of successfully prosecuting someone such as putin, is it more realistic, or should this also be part of the investigation to focus on lower level commanders, some of whom are in custody as prisoners of war? is that a path that's not only necessary but also more likely to net results? >> it depends what you're seeking. certainly low level people, if they are available for trial should be tried. but there's a danger in doing that, namely that you overlook the overall criminality of the state or the leader of the state. this is one of the problems with yugoslav trials. there are many trials of low level people lasting have many years. and that allowed the underlying issues of the conflict to be continued and most seriously

allow those individuals on trial to advance wholly on maritime defenses and to carry on arguing on philosophies. what was important to get the leadership and to get the leadership to a final conclusion in a short space of time. in the nuremberg trials after world war ii may be criticized for some aspects of their process, but it's very important to remember how much good they did in that. within a year, the leadership was tried. most were convicted. many were hanged. and after that, both the allies who were counted as the undoubted moral victors, in germany, the moral villain, all were able to move forward. and when ukraine escapes from this, what is perhaps more important than trying lower level commanders is leaving a record that leaves it quite clear that russia has been, is, and will remain forever the

villain of this peace, the moral villain. >> you make a great point that the reckoning, perhaps necessary, to move on. that's down the road, sadly. sir jeffrey, thanks so much for the work you've done and for joining us tonight. >> my pleasure. thank you. in the midst of the sadness from ukraine, the crimes we're witnessing, there are occasional moments of good news. in our last hour, cnn's clarissa ward brought us the remarkable second chapter in the story of a woman named lydia, 86 years old, nearly alone. when we first met her last night, she was living in a freezing apartment in a town under siege, confined to a wheelchair, unable to care for herself or to get anywhere safe. she told clarissa for her, things will probably get worse. instead tonight, her life probably has gotten better and safer. here's clarissa's story. >> reporter: lydia thought this day would never come. after weeks of horror, she waits outside her apartment to be

evacuated. so, we're here at the big heart living facility, and we're just waiting for lydia to arrive. she's been driving for some hours, and we're excited to see her. here she is. >> we got her out. >> reporter: lydia greets cameraman scotty mcwinnie. it's our old friend, she says, i'm so glad to see you again. after we left lydia thursday, there was an outpouring from people who wanted to help. we managed to connect volunteers to a care home in the relative safety of dnipro. leaving lydia alone in her apartment was incredibly tough. to see her safe is a huge

relief. today, i will finally feel calm, she says, this is so important, thank you. her journey was far from easy. she's saying that there was a lot of shelling this morning and it was terrifying. it took six long hours to get here, but she made it. i'm so lucky, she says, safe and comfortable at long last. >> cnn's clarissa ward tonight. next for us, the sinking of russia's flagship. the impact of new american military aid, and what russia's next moves might be.

two retired army generals know a lot about russia and its military will join us. also a closer look at how sophisticated some of the new weaponry heading to ukraine from the west truly is. e a lot to ha. ♪ this magic momoment ♪ but heinz knows there's plenty of magic in all that chaos. ♪ so different and soso new ♪ ♪ was like any other... ♪ tums vs. mozzarella stick when heartburn hits, fight back fast with tums chewy bites. fast heartburn relief in every bite. crunchy outside, chewy inside. ♪ tums, tums, tums, tums ♪ tums chewy bites

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aspen dental. anything to make you smile. book today at aspendental.com, walk in, or call 1-800-aspendental. tonight we're addressing the threat of russia using weapons in ukraine that have only been used twice before in the entire history of the planet. make no mistake, even a nuclear weapon half or a quarter or less of the size of the ones dropped on hiroshima and nagasaki seven years ago this august would be devastating. joining us now, two cnn military analysts, retired army general spider marks, also dana. gentlemen, good to have you both on tonight. general marks, i wonder if we could discuss what you might call a low probability/high

impact event, russia resorting to the use of tactical or battlefield nuclear weapons. as you look at this, how real a threat is that, and how should you and i and the u.s. and the ukraine prepare for that? >> well, it's a real threat. putin has indicated that he has nuclear weapons. we don't need that type of reminder. the concern that i have is that the russians have a different perspective of the use of nuclear weapons than the western powers and certainly the united states. in the united states, the release of whether it's a theater or tactical nuclear weapon or whether it's a strategic icbm requires the commander chief of putin, has to be delegated down, has to be relegated, the whole bit. in russia, that's not the case. the theater commander reserves the right to release that weapon, which just means it's

just another arrow in the quiver. my concern is deescalation. when a nuke is released, i don't know how you can resist acceleration and escalation to the next level. >> no question. and it is part of their battlefield escalation plan, as many have noted in response to a general attack. general, for folks at home so they can understand a tactical and battlefield nuke, how big is it? how big would the impact area be? and what are the ways they can be deployed? >> good evening, jim. as general marks just said, they can be deployed at least by russian doctrine by a theater level commander. the tactical or battlefield nuclear weapons have a lower yield, but they're still nuclear weapons. so, the u.s. and nato must send unequivocal message that any use of nuclear weapons, whether it's tactical, battlefield, or strategic, will start nuclear

war. we must send that message loud and clear so that's not done. >> i should note, and i reported this earlier today, that the u.s. has been monitoring russian military forces and nuclear forces for any unusual movements of nuclear weapons have not, to date, seen that. doesn't mean that can't change, but we should note that as we factor into this -- into judging the seriousness of the strategy. general marks, to another topic here. russia is taking its protests of u.s. weapon shipments to ukraine to a higher level. it demarr shed the u.s. over this. do you see russia as building the case here, sending warning signs or warning shots that they might start taking shots at targeting u.s. or nato weapons convoys. >> jim, i'm surprised they haven't already gone after those convoys. i think it's more tactical and a military commander consideration weighing all the risks and how

do you mitigate those risks? it makes perfect sense to me that you would want to go after those logistic tales. they're exposed. they're vulnerable. you have to have a handoff. you have to have equipment that is visible. the key is the russians have not demonstrated the ability to precisely target mobile targets. they're using all matter of weapons systems to go against stationary targets, schools, hospitals, et cetera. but they haven't been able to target ukrainian forces on the move and won't be able to do it against logistics efforts. the key is they can't, they know they can't, go after those assembly areas in the handoff areas like poland or romania. >> some biden administration officials believe part of the message from moscow on this is that russia is hurting from this. and we know they've lost a tremendous number of personnel as well as a whole host of hardware, the latest being the jewel of their black sea fleet.

i suppose the question is then, does that lead russia to trim down its ambitions? we've seen some of that with the movement to the east and away from the capital. or is it more likely that it leads putin and the russian military to strike back harder? >> well, russia has definitely been hurt by the weapons, munitions being sent by the u.s. and nato. that is clear. and russians aren't doing very well in this war. so, i think the last thing that russia wants to do is take on the u.s., the world's premier military power and nato. so, i don't know if this is a bluff or the russians may try to attempt this, but it wouldn't be wise. they barely can handle what's going on with the ukrainians in eastern ukraine. but it still speaks to what the u.s. and nato should be doing as far as taking the strategic initiative. not being intimidated by putin

in russia, making russia react to what the u.s. and nato does instead of just the opposite, like declaring a humanitarian assistance zone in western ukraine. >> a lot of decisions to come, hard ones. general marks, general pittard, thanks so much to both of you. >> thank you, jim. coming up next, russia is demanding the u.s. stop giving weapons to ukraine. but the biden administration says it's not listening, shipping an additional $800 million in military aid. that means weapons. we'll take a look at the advanced weaponry it's sending their way. and greater workforce visibility today, so you can have more success tomorrow. ♪ one thing leadsds to anothe, yeah, yeah ♪

russia, not happy, clearly that the u.s. is increasing its weapons shipments to ukraine's military, and it wants them to stop. sending a diplomatic message to the state department, warning of, quote, unpredictable consequences if those shipments continue. but this week the biden administration announced sending more, an additional $800 million in military aid to ukraine. tonight cnn's alex marquardt looks at the advanced weapons that are part of that package. >> reporter: with russia's war with ukraine about to enter its third month, the battlefield has changed. the region around the capital, kyiv, is quieter for now. but u.s. and nato officials warn that a dramatic escalation by

russia in eastern ukraine is coming. with that shift and escalation, ukraine's needs for weapons are changing and growing. this week, the biden administration announced a weapons package worth $800 million, with new and more sophisticated systems. >> some of them are reinforcing capabilities that we have already been providing ukraine, and some of them are new capabilitys that we have not provided ukraine. >> reporter: among the bigger items are mi-17 helicopters, 11 of them, which the u.s. redirected from afghanistan to ukraine. small drones called switchblades, 300 of them, also called kamikaze killer drones, that can target russian soldiers and vehicles. and for the first time, how with it howitzers. the list goes on and includes coastal sea drones to defend

against russia's ships in the black sea, 200 armored personnel carriers, equipment for chemical, biological, radiological, and nuclear attacks, and thousands more javelin and stinger missiles to use against russian tanks and aircraft. countless russian armored vehicles have been destroyed by weapons provided by nato countries. ukrainian forces have been able to repel russian advances thanks to them. >> i think the deal that ukraine is offering is fair. you give us weapons, we sacrifice our lives and the war is contained in ukraine. >> reporter: but ukraine says it needs more. >> translator: we are grateful for what we have already been given. we need helicopters, planes, powerful weapons, how wiitzers. we need a lot. >> reporter: a point of convention is fighter jets. the biden administration is worried russia will take that as too much of a provocation.

moscow has warned it would target weapons heading into ukraine and this week sent a protest letter to washington over the growing weaponry being sent. but the state department said friday that nothing will dissuade the u.s. from continuing its support. alex marquardt, cnn, washington. >> for more on the big picture, let's bring in the former cia chief of operations. steve, good to have you on. >> good to be here, jim. >> there's a demash. you have the continuing nuclear sabre rattling by russia. you spent years studying russia, analyzing the intelligence. is this a bluff? >> you know, bluff -- bluff might be too strong of a word, jim. but i honestly don't think in my assessment at this point that there is a serious threat of a, you know, thermonuclear exchange. we're talking strategic weapons,

you know, mulltiple launch type of stuff, intercontinental missiles. i don't think that is going to happen. the tactical missiles that russia possesses, there's a slightly likely higher likelihood. even putin, in his hour of need, i think he does understand there would be real serious repercussions to that to include china picking up the phone and saying, look, this can't go on. so, i think there is some significant down sides if they turn to even the tactical nuclear weapons. and the strategic ones are still way far off. but you've got to take it seriously. >> let me ask you another question about how russia views this. it's been devastating. the loss of personnel. if you believe even the sort of mid range estimates, they've already lost more than they lost in nearly a decade in afghanistan, which helped bring down the soviet union. they've lost tanks, jets. they've lost the flagship of the black sea fleet.

that has enormous significance. and they had to withdraw from their initial intention of taking over the country, including the capital. do you believe putin understands that he's losing? >> well, i think that there was certainly a good deal of hubris going into this on putin's part. and that might not just be putin. putin obviously thinks very well of himself and russia, but he also might have been getting the yes man syndrome, as we discuss often. that's a concern in terms of what he understands and what's going on. i think also if you look at how the russians and specifically the tradition that putin comes from in term of how they conduct war in these types of operations, you know, by u.s. military standards, there's a lot of questioning and a lot of, that didn't go very well for them. i think we have to be a little careful though because those are sort of western military standards. the russians have always waged war in a way of attrition, not only the enemy but also their own. they're prepared just to throw people at this and throw more

weapons systems at this, even if they're not specifically as efficient as they hope to be. i think they're in it for the long term. >> we've seen that, leaving the bodies of their fallen soldiers behind. it's remarkable to watch. i do want to talk about the weapons going in because already the weapons have been killing russian personnel, right? i mean, these javelins are blowing up tanks. the stingers are taking down russian helicopters and aircraft. i remember how u.s. commanders viewed iranian help for iraqi insurgents, right, those armor piercing ieds you heard about for years, part of the reason you can argue the u.s. took out soleimani. why wouldn't the u.s. view this as killing russian personnel, as something they might respond to? >> i would fully expect -- i agree with your previous military commentators in the previous segment. it's kind of surprising they

haven't tried to do this already. and it could be that they're not particularly good at it. there is some reporting that they're having difficulty with some of their satellite systems. so, basic intelligence, where these handoffs are taking place and where the weapons are coming in, that the west and the americans are supplying them. i think given the chance, though, they will definitely go at this and then of course there's always a risk balance going on in putin's mind. what if they try to hit a bunch of western tanks that are being sent in and those tanks haven't crossed the line from poland into ukraine yet. so, they're stuck in a nato country. so, putin is trying to weigh -- there's lots of balls the russians have in the air. if they drop one of them, there's going to be real serious repercussions they need to be careful about. >> no questions. and questions about article v, right? if you have a strike on nato territory. coming up next, the biden administration and its western allies putting the squeeze now

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since russia invaded ukraine nearly two months ago now, the u.s. and its allies have been seizing the financial assets of russian oligarchs hoping to put the squeeze not only on them but on vladimir putin as well. two days ago, germany seized a superyacht with an estimated value of nearly a billion dollars. there it is. on thursday, ukraine announced it had confiscated 154 properties, including homes, cars, and yachts from the family of a ukrainian mogul with close ties to putin. question is, is it working? is the financial pressure working? i'm joined by professor of sociology at dartmouth, author of "capital without borders" you see these stories, images of yachts being seized. i think it gives people

satisfaction, right? i imagine. how effective do you think these kinds of sanctions have been so far? >> i think that they must have been very effective in order to get vladimir putin on television wi whining about them. he -- he doesn't get out of bed for, like, minor things. for him not only to get exercised about this, but to go on television and be seen publicly railing against these sanctions as a form of cancel culture i think is a fantastic sign that they are working. >> are there additional levers targeting oligarchs specifically here, for instance the idea of liquidating as opposed to freezing, in other words. people have suggested selling the yachts and other properties and financing either the humanitarian aid to ukraine or the rebuilding of ukraine? >> yeah, sounds like a great idea to me, and it has a certain universally understandable justice to it, doesn't it?

>> do you think that the oligarchs might matter less now, as putin tightens his grip? folks who follow russia very closely will say, yes, you know, putin has his oligarchs, his friends, and so on. but he views them -- their wealth, in effect is coming through him, right? that it's his to give and take away. or does he need their support? >> it's not that they support him. it's that they're his informal ambassadors to the west. they've been the one who is have been infiltrating our political and educational and cultural institutions in order to make those institutions work for them or rather for the russian state and putin's agenda rather for us. and by taking away the tools that they used to do that, which is the tools they use to hobnob with the elites of the west, like the yachts and the luxury properties and the jets, that

cuts off their influence. and at least that's -- that's a big win all by itself. >> of course all these transactions are two-way streets. someone's got to sell, the yacht or the apartment in london, or the football club in london. i wonder, has this change -- or new york frankly. has this event changed that fundamentally? are russian oligarchs -- is their money no longer going to be welcome in western capitals anymore? >> yes. i think that's been one of the primary impacts of the sanctions. and very much intentionally so. to stigmatize the people who have been putin's hinch men. and through them the whole agenda they have been executing for 20 years in the west. >> if the sanctions do not do what's hoped for here, right, which is to change the war, you

know, get the oligarchs to pressure putin or even putin of course because he's got a lot of his money hidden with these people, to change course here, can they still be deemed successful? >> i think the sanctions have already been successful in the sense that -- first of all, they've pulled the lid off of a whole operation that was only able to function through secrecy. the offshore system protected these oligarchs and their looting of the russian estate for years. and that's over. offshore -- offshore financial centers, their intermediaries, won't do business with russians anymore. there will always be some outlaws who do business with them. but the respectable ones, like the uk and switzerland, monaco and the u.s., won't do business with them anymore. and that cuts off their

influence and their access to wealth and the west in really significant and lasting ways. and it also cuts off putin's access to wealth that he's used to prosecute the war. >> exactly, both for the state and of course wealth he's hidden around the world for himself and people close to him. brook harrington, thanks so much. >> thank you. well, as jewish communities across the world are now marking the beginning of passover tonight, i spoke with the chief rabbi of poland on what this holiday means for the thousands of ukrainian jews who have fled this war. that's coming up. um, she's eating the rocket. ♪ lunchables! built to be eaten. >> tech: does your windshield have a crack? trust safelite. >> tech vo: this customer had auto glass damage, but he was busy working from home... ...so he seduled with safelite in just a few clicks. we came to his house... .then we got to work. we replaced his windshield

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marta salek md: when there is a need, people stand up and do what is right and ensure that they restart medical therapy as quickly as possible. carlos rodriguez-galindo md: any child suffering today of cancer is our responsibility. today marks the beginning of passover, one of the holiest holidays for jewish people around the world as they commemorate the biblical story of exodus. as jewish communities prepare to spend eight days celebrating with family and telling stories about liberation, for many ukrainian jews, this holiday is

taking on a new meaning in their own modern day exodus, as refugees, millions of them from their homeland. earlier, i spoke with the chief rabbi of poland. rabbi, we talk about history repeating itself. here we have a 21st century exodus of refugees, many of them jews from ukraine. it has echoed of world war ii certainly. on the occasion of passover, it has biblical echos. i wonder what's going through your mind usa sas you see this out. >> hours before passover and sitting down for the seder, when we talk about freedom and one of the passages in the special book that we will read from says in every generation, you need to imagine that you left egypt. that leaving egypt wasn't just once, it's something that

happens again and again. you look what's happening in the world. we here in poland accepting over 2 million refugees from the ukraine. very different story than the biblical story of the exodus from egypt, but not that different. people fleeing for their lives. people fleeing from a situation that is dangerous to their lives. trying to get to somewhere safe. it more than resonates. it overwhelms. this passover will be different. one of the famous lines in the seder is, why is this night different than all other nights? this passover week, we can say, why is this passover different than all previous passovers? it's because this passover, we are watching something happening that is an exodus.

it's a struggle of a people to survive. we jews, therefore, must have a tremendous empathy and sympathy for what they are going through. we created a crisis management to help. for hundreds of years, we polish jews were the crisis. now we have been the management team. now it's our chance to give back. now is our chance to help others. >> that has to be a proud moment. it's certainly a moment of generosity. one of the grim ironies of this war is that the man behind it, vladimir putin, has claimed somehow to be de-nazifying ukraine, claiming it's the ukrainians who are the problem, when the facts show differently.

how do you hear that message from him, attempting really to claim the mantle of defending the jewish people or defending europe even from nazis? >> we welcome anyone who wants to defend us. but bombing maternity hospitals, bombing train stations, destroying cities is not helping or saving anyone. it's destruction, and it is evil. >> you speak to, in your role now as shepherd, as it were to many of the regee refugees as t come to poland, what do you hear from them about how their faith is tested? we imagine there's progress and signs of progress. so much of this war has shown that you can move backwards, that humanity can move backwards. >> in my experience -- i speak to the refugees often just hours

after they get -- come out of ukraine. maybe some days. they really haven't had yet a time to reflect. their first is, where am i sleeping, where am i eating, how can i take care of my child, what about my elderly parents that i left behind? these are the more pressing questions. i don't ask them those tough questions, because my responsibility is to create a safe, warm environment. later we can deal with the harsh realities. right now, the challenge is to make them feel safe and welcome. >> the first job is to survive, right? thanks so much. >> thank you. the rabbi there. we will be right back.

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