tv CNN Tonight CNN April 19, 2022 6:00pm-7:00pm PDT
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i'm jim sciutto. as anderson said, live from lviv, ukraine. along with my good friend laura coates, back in the u.s. and there is tonight very dire news out of the besieged city of mariupol in the south of this country. hundreds of ukrainian civilians including women and children as well as soldiers surrounded by russian forces and fearing for their lives. a ukrainian marine commander is now pleading with the world for help, calling for an international evacuation effort there. he says and i'm quoting, it may be his very last statement because ukrainian forces have in his words a few days or even a few hours left there. he said "we are surrounded." you're about to see that desperate plea in just a moment. we do know there is a, quote, unprecedented effort by the u.s. as we speak to race yet more weapons to ukraine in a critical new phase of the nugs invasion
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and we're learning tonight that president biden is likely to announce another $800 million in security assistance, that means weapons, to ukraine soon to add to some $800 million he approved just last week. this as russia intensifies and expands its assault on the donbas region in the eastern part of this country. >> jim, i know russia hasn't agreed to open any humanitarian corridors for quite some time, which is of course leaving so many civilians still trapped by this bombardment. so what's president zelenskyy's take tonight? "forever the russian army will be written in history as the most barbaric and inhumane army in the world." and this hour we're also going to address the major fallout over a very different kind of fight for freedom, the freedom to no longer mask up on public transportation, after a federal judge has struck down the cdc's mandate just yesterday. it's been very welcome news for many, but a very worrisome news for others as this pandemic is clearly not over.
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hundreds are still dying from covid every day. so should americans keep masking up? mandate or not? you're going to hear president biden's answer to that ahead. but first let's turn back to this last stand of sorts for mariupol. jim, what else do we know about how long ukrainian forces can really hold up and hold on to that steel plant? >> you know, the steel plant has become an unlikely lifeboat for these people here. and it is soldiers, the last defenders of this city, but it's civilians, perhaps 1,000 civilians. and we've seen pictures of them there. taking refuge in the basement of the steel plant. women and children. they're running out of food. so the commander of ukraine's 36th separate marine brigade, who is hunkering down there as well, he warned today russian forces are advancing, they are bombing and they don't have much time left. have a listen.
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>> you can see in his eyes, laura, that this is a plea for his life and the lives of the other people there taking shelter. and i have to say having covered this war for weeks now this is not happening in the dark. we're seeing these assaults often on civilians right before our eyes. and here is yet one more case of this. and frankly tonight the fate of those people very much hangs in the balance. >> i mean, the desperation. just thinking about that from a human element. we talk about the humanitarian crisis of those who are refugees going to different borders. but the feeling of being surrounded and actually saying you don't know how much time you have left, talking about the wounded, a plea to get them to safety. president biden held another call with u.s. allies today. jim, how are those conversations having an impact on the ground where you are? i mean, obviously the appeal that went out is going to the western allies, to the u.s. and
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beyond. >> yeah. it's having the effect in terms of getting more weapons to the ukrainian military. and ephwe've seen that tonight. there was nearly a billion dollars in u.s. aid last week and here we are again almost another billion dollars. those are real hardcore weapons going out to ukrainians fighting on the front lines there. but the truth is as that commander said russian forces greatly outnumber ukrainian forces, so they're still able to do a tremendous amount of damage. and by the way, as they do it they're deliberately targeting civilians. earlier today i spoke to the u.n. -- to the u.s. ambassador to the u.n. and i said, listen, i get the stands that you are trying to make there and the weapons support that the u.s. is sending but the fact is civilians are still dying here in numbers. what's the relevance, for instance, of a body like the u.n. today? have a listen to what she had to say. >> if the u.n. cannot stop a war in the 21st century in which we're witnessing war crimes
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perhaps every day here, if it cannot do that, what is the u.n.'s true influence today? >> that's an extraordinarily important question, and it's one that we grapple with every single day at the united nations. but we do have the power. we have the power to blunt the russian veto. we have the power to isolate russia, which we have successfully done over the course of this war. we have isolated them in the security council. and as you know, in the general assembly. >> isolate but not yet stop. that is the hard fact of this war as we continue to watch it play out. i'm joined now by arseni yatsenyuk. he's the former prime minister of ukraine. sir, thanks very much for joining us tonight. >> thanks for having me. >> i wonder what your reaction is to hear the u.s. ambassador to the u.n. there saying the u.s., its allies have been successful in isolating russia.
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and that's true largely, although russia certainly has its allies. but given the brutality of what we're seeing here, is the world failing? is the u.s. failing to stop this? >> well, here is the thing. let's be frank. the post-second world war order is outdated, period. so what is needed right now, we need to upgrade and actually to craft a new kind of humane freedom-like global order. i'm not sure that the u.n. is really effective right now. even more, let me avoid all these political correctness. the u.n. is a very good body which is not an effective one. they cannot stop massacre. they cannot bring to justice those who committed crimes against humanity. they can't bring to justice putin, who is a nazi-style leader. in terms of the u.s., this is the second part of your
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question, i want to be very clear. the u.s. is the flagship who decided to fight for freedom in the world and support ukrainian people. and the u.s. administration managed to solidify and actually to make joint efforts of the european union, of the entire g7 and the free world to join our ranks in order to help ukraine. this is unprecedented. let me be very clear. unprecedented pace and unprecedented endeavors made by the u.s. and the free world. but russia is a very big country with nukes which actually outnumbers us. so we always -- we are very clear asking you, please supply more, ratchet up sanctions, isolate russia, make russia to pay, and elaborate and craft a new mechanism, how to bring to
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justice those responsible, starting with putin and ending with every single crony of president putin. >> as you watch what's unfolding in mariupol right now, yes, you have u.s. aid coming in, aid from nato allies. you have investigations at least under way to prosecute war crimes at some point in the future, but the trouble is we're seeing evidence of war crimes every day here. right? you have 1,000 people or more who might die tonight, right? if the russians advance on that steel plant in mariupol. do you need to see something to stop these acts as they're happening? as opposed to punish those who carry them out. if they're still able to carry them out. >> a big drama and tragedy is unfolding. those who defend mariupol, azov battalion and ukrainian marines, they are very courageous people. this is a tenacious resistance.
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and they are fighting like hell. so what we have on the table, we have on the table a few options. the key option is to consolidate the western world and to consolidate the free world and to press on russia to provide a humanitarian corridor for ukrainian defenders. another option is to duplicate mariupol and actually to -- in this way to help ukrainian fighters to withstand. i still believe that there is a chance to save every single ukrainian soldier, men and women in uniform, fighting in mariupol. and to save innocent people who are sheltering in this, one of the biggest steel plants in ukraine. so i hope and i pray for this. >> joe biden says tonight he does not know if he himself will visit ukraine.
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as you know, the leader of the uk has come here. many nato allies in the east, their leaders have come, and many countries are returning their diplomats to ukraine, a step that the u.s. has not taken yet. would it mean something to you, to ukrainians for a high-level u.s. official perhaps up to the president to visit? and particularly for the u.s. as well to return its diplomats to the country. >> the time will come when the president of the united states will pay a visit to ukraine. the time will come when the u.s. embassy will be back in kyiv. no doubt. what counts for me right now and what counts for ukraine is a very speedy and fast track delivery of lethal defensive and offensive weapon. strong sanctions, isolation of russia. unity in the european union. so it's not just about visits. visits it's very important. what i would focus on, on the real deliverables. tangible results. and we do feel that the west already realized this nazi-style
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ruler putin is a threat to the free world. we as ukraine, we are fighting for our homeland. we are fighting for our country. but we are fighting for your freedom, for your security, and for actually for the entire free world. >> it's a consistent message we hear from ukrainian officials. i do want to ask you as the war shifts its focus -- and by the way, i always remind people that the war in eastern ukraine began some eight years ago. it's not new but it's going to be bigger now. there's a greater concentration of russian forces, weapons, et cetera. and now ukrainian forces as well. is that a fight ukraine can win? >> i am confident that this fight will be win by ukrainians. so this is the fight of the free world and of ukraine. ukrainian victory is feasible. ukrainian victory is real one.
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and there is a very clear-cut -- i won't say it is a playbook. but a recipe. or an action plan. how to support ukraine to win this fight. weapon, sanctions, russian isolation, energy embargo, and development and reconstruction plan for ukraine. actually five points. which are on the table. >> we'll be watching those steps closely to see if they continue. arseny yatsenyuk, former ukrainian prime minister, thanks so much for joining us tonight. >> thank you, sir. >> well, this country still at war every day has no time to properly mourn the dead. each day bodies are being found. particularly in bucha, the site of those mass graves we've reported on extensively. as a result some morgues are now struggling to handle, to
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as if putin's denials of the atrocities we have witnessed in bucha are not enough, he's been even more gaulling. this week he awarded honors to the army brigade accused of committing the massacres there. in a signed letter he bestowed the unit the honorary title of guards and praised what he called "great heroism and courage." great heroism and courage. but the troops who did this, they're not heroes. they are not courageous. the disturbing images speak for themselves. the mass graves there are full of murdered civilians. streets strewn with the bodies of civilians killed by russian forces. cnn's phil black joins me now from the capital kyiv. phil, it's been just over two weeks now since russian forces
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retreated from the area, about people there still struggling to recover, even take the step of identifying bodies. >> that's right, jim. the killing of so many people behind russian lines created so much pain but also a massive logistical problem. there are so many bodies, and each needs to be recovered, accounted for, identified, examined, the cause of death established, and then ultimately returned to the right grieving family. there is a huge operation under way to ensure all of that happens as efficiently and respectfully as possible. but even still there are families left waiting, enduring painful uncertainty. take a look. morgues aren't supposed to be busy. or so over capacity they need a team of volunteers to move bodies around and large mobile refrigerators to accommodate them. this is one of seven sites in
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and around kyiv working to cope with the tide of death left behind by russia's retreating forces. there are still more bodies coming? >> coming, yes. >> reporter: lots? >> lots. every day at morning. >> reporter: andrei beliakov normally teaches forensic medicine. now he's a full-time volunteer, performing endless autopsies. how many murders are you seeing? >> murders, i think near to 30% is exactly murder. >> reporter: by his definition that means 30% of the people in these bags have deliberate gunshot wounds to the head. we witness a continuous cycle. shuffling bodies from vehicles to storage to autopsy, to storage and ultimately preparation for burial. usually, it will be the second. most have been exhumed from
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temporary graves. families buy new clothes for those they've lost as a gesture of lost and respect. but they often go unworn. they can only be laid inside the coffin. the condition of the bodies means dressing them is impossible. among those lying here waiting to be collected is roman lipa. his family says he was killed when munitions struck his home in a small remote village. roman's wife, victoria, survived, only to endure a form of hell. intense fighting meant she couldn't escape the house. victoria's brother igor says "my sister had to step over her husband's body for two weeks. she had to go through it to get to food or water. the room is still covered in blood. she is very bad now. very bad. i don't know how she will live with this loss." others who grieve are living
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through a different form of hell. they can't find the body of the person they love. volodymyr is searching for his brother leonid. he shows us where he was shot and killed, where he was buried in a shallow makeshift grave before officials exhumed the body and took it away. so volodymyr has taken leave from active duty to travel through devastated communities, going from morgue to morgue. but no one can help. eventually, he's directed to a police office with a central list of the dead. he's told his brother probably hasn't been processed yet. volodymyr must return to the war. he doesn't know when he'll be able to come back, even if leonid's body is found. "it hurts a lot," he says. >> [ speaking foreign language ]. >> reporter: "it hurts a lot,
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but we don't give up." russia has left so much death behind in areas near kyiv some people must wait their turn to grieve. is jim, in these morgues you also see prosecutors working, investigating, recording individual crimes, determined they say to ensure that somebody is held accountable. but they also know the reality. russia's just not going to hand people over. vladimir putin has essentially shown that, highlighted that, by awarding a specific military unit, this is the 64th separate guards motor rifle brigade. this is a unit that the ukrainian government says is responsible specifically for atrocities committed in bucha. but according to this award this is a unit that is deserving of commendation for courage and bravery and astute bold action here in ukraine.
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these are soldiers that in ukraine are war crimes -- war criminals i should say, but in russia are being sbrapted as heroes, jim. >> phil, it is heartbreaking to watch that story. it's a fact of war. it had to be extremely difficult for you and your team to report that story given what you were witnessing up close. but it's important to put it on the record. thank you. we'll have more on the war in ukraine in just a moment. but first, to a new normal. back in america k a new mask-optional country with the cdc's mandate struck down. but for how long? and has this mandate been lifted too soon? laura picks that up next.
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federal court ruled against its mask mandate for public travel. that's according to sources familiar with the discussions who spoke to cnn. now, today the doj announced that it would appeal that ruling if, and that's a big if, if the cdc determines that a mandate is in fact still necessary. but president biden is already weighing in on whether americans should still mask up while flying. >> mr. president, should people continue to wear masks on planes? >> that's up to them. >> would you like to appeal the ruling that the judge made striking down the mandate? >> i haven't spoken to the cdc yet. >> quite a change. so what could that mean for the future of the mask mandate? let's discuss now with dr. zeke emmanuel, former member of the biden transition's covid advisory board. dr. emmanuel, i'm glad that you're here. i think a lot of people have the question when the cdc first announced they're going to
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extend this particular mandate a few more weeks, what was the justification at that point in time to have that extension in the first place? >> well, we're in the omicron ba.2 upswing, where we see extensive numbers of cases in new england, colorado, and other parts of the country. and you want to be sure that we're not facing a real surge all throughout the country before you lift the mask mandate. that would seem counterproductive to combating transmission of the virus. >> i do see the chart you're talking about. and of course there is that notion, and we know that we're still very much in it, and frankly there's still a greek alphabet to go in terms of these variants. we don't know what's going to happen. but at the same time most people are looking and saying the rest of the country has really opened up. you've got restaurants and ball games and the like. and so there is this juxtaposition, doctor, from what's happening outside to what's happening on planes and public transportation.
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so i'm wondering, in terms of the idea of lifting the mandates given that number, is it that it's just grossly premature to do so or is it that when it comes to flying and the sustained contact in particular that's when there has to still be the mandate? >> well, i think both are true. and i'm on record as saying we lifted the mandate too early when things were improving but not improved enough. and second, you're absolutely right. when you have a high-ok ccupanc area, even with good ventilation but you're going to be exposed to someone for a prolonged period of time, that's when transmission happens. if someone's not wearing a mask, even if you're wearing a very high-quality mask like this, an n95 mask, they're infected, you have about an hour, hour and 15 minutes of protection from them. on the other hand, if both of you are wearing good n95 masks that goes up to six hours and 15 minutes. that's good enough for a cross-country flight.
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and that's i think the important difference. if you're prog longd whether on a train or a plane exposure to someone who's not wearing a mask and they're infected, that spells bad news even if you're wearing a mask. >> interestingly enough the president of the united states you just heard him say when asked if people should wear a mask he said it's up to them. that makes me think of a common conversation happening throughout the pandemic about whose responsibility it is, who does the onus fall on to have to wear that mask. and many would say, well, look, at this point in time it's those who have a suppressed immune system in some way are compromised, those that require additional protection should be the ones to wear it, but to have a blanket rule on board aircrafts and the like, that's a bridge too far without a logical justification. i know that the judge was talking about this very issue, saying listen, i know there's a notice and comment period under the a.p.a. to be able to have a
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rule promulgated having to have the notice, but also you have to link it to why the mandate is still in effect right now. do you think that there is a disconnect in terms of what the cdc has been able to convey to the public about why it's essential at this point in time for the onus to be shared among those who are both compromised and those who have really a medical altruism that must be enforced? >> well, first of all, as i noted, i can't just protect myself. if both of us are wearing a mask, the chances that an infection passes from a positive person to someone who isn't infected and, say, immune compromised, goes -- is prolonged. it's six hours. if only one person, the receiving person, the immunocompromised person, is wearing a mask and the other person isn't and they're infected, that drops down to about one hour. that's a huge difference. we're all in this together, and my being infected can affect someone else. but i do think you're right in
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the other point, which is that the cdc has not laid out clear guidelines that the american public understands for when we should lift the mask mandate and when it should go back on. and i think that's what we're struggling with. we're also struggling with the fact that we're all damn exhausted from this thing and we want it to be behind us. what we want does not necessarily match with reality. and that's the problem we have. >> well, that's part of the contemplation about whether to appeal this decision as well. we'll keep tuned in to that very point. thank you, dr. zeke emanuel. >> thank you. >> i want to get back to jim in ukraine. jim? >> thanks, laura. britain, canada, new zealand, just some of the countries taking new economic measures today to squeeze russia. but up next, i'm going to speak to a former adviser to vladimir putin himself. he has one step he believes that could stop the war within a month. that's coming up. ♪ ♪ nice suits, you guys blend right in.
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is preparing another $800 million in weapons for the ukrainian military, the number that may matter more to vladimir putin is 38 billion. the eu has spent at least that much on russian energy just since the war began. my next guest knows the impact the money will have on the mind of the russian leader. andrei illarionov is putin's former chief economic adviser. andrei, good to have you on tonight. >> good evening. nice to be with you. >> you worked with vladimir putin at a time back in the 2000s when he seemed to be interested in moving closer to the west. what have you seen changed in him since then that has led to where we are right now? >> the most serious evolution or maybe better to say devolution of his attitude has happened between 2003 and 2007 when he
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has changed his mind from pretty pro-western political leader, especially for the russian situation, to very open anti-western leader. that happened in this period of time. we can discuss what exactly -- what exact factors contributed to this change of mind. i would say probably one of these was iraq war, revolutions in georgia and ukraine, and also exposition to new ideas that he never heard before but some -- we need to say some americans told him these wrong ideas, that he took as a weapon and started to use from year 2007. >> what ideas exactly? >> the idea of against nato, against membership of georgia and ukraine in nato, the ideas
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to bring nato back to 1997 division line in europe, and idea of superpowers that are having spheres of privileged interests. in the beginning of year 2000 putin did not have such ideas. but he has acquired those ideas around year 2005 to year 2007. >> well, we're seeing those ideas in action now on the ground in ukraine with ruthless effects. what would make a difference for him? what would actually stop him? he's been under sanction for years. is there one sanction that would make a difference? >> in this particular situation i would propose something that i would call a smart embargo on russian energy. what do we have right now? we have three serious problems at the same time.
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first of all, putin does receive about 1 billion u.s. dollar per day as a result of export of russian gas and oil. that is money that is financing putin's war machine. second, this putin's war machine is making a lot of damage. it made enormous damage to ukraine, which is measured by hundreds of billion dollars on the ukrainian territory. and those -- ukraine does need money to restore and repair all these damages. and third, we need to give some time to europe to adjust to new situation where europe would be able to avoid input and consumption of russian energy. what would be the golden instrument to solve this puzzle? the idea is to introduce the so-called smart embargo. what does it mean?
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it means introduction of the escrow accounts for which all proceeds from russian oil and gas will be accumulated but will not be given back to putin. this money can be used until the end of the war, until withdrawal of russian troops from ukraine, for financing reparation, restoration, rehabilitation of ukraine. and it gives time for europe to adjust to new situation without russian energy. we can think that if some portion of this money, let's say 50%, will be going to ukraine, it will be substantial support for ukrainian efforts to resist aggression and to normalize life in ukrainian cities and villages. >> there's been a lot of speculation in the west as to whether putin can survive this
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at home. set aside the russian public. but just inside the kremlin. you worked for putin. is there any potential for someone challenging his leadership? the military, someone else? is that realistic? >> i think we need to come to a very clear idea, that with all problems with putin personally the most serious problem is with the putin's political regime. and that is why we need to absolutely serious that with such a political regime with putin or without putin russia will remain threat to international peace and security. so that is why we need to think about not only live with russia without putin but without putin's political regime. no matter how long and how difficult it will be. but that should be a goal for
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international community. world cannot live in peace and security if we have such an aggressor who's attacking neighboring countries and not only neighboring countries, killing hundreds of thousands people in chechnya, in georgia -- >> yes. >> -- in ukraine, in syria, in africa, around the world. >> yeah. we're witnessing it every day. andrei illarionov, thanks very much for giving us your insight. >> thank you. >> i'll be back live from ukraine in just a few minutes. but up next, new controversy about what exactly to teach american children. florida has rejected an historic number of textbooks over claims of critical race theory, common core and more. laura will speak to a teacher who fears what this means for his students. that's coming up. a lot of ideas. so when she wants a planan based on what matters most,
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ancestry made it really easy to learn about my family's history. finding military information, newspaper articles, how many people were living in the house and where it was, makes me curious and keeps pulling me in and the photos reminding me of what life must have been like for them. finding out new bits of information about the family has been a wonderful experience, it's an important part of understanding who we are. what happens when performance... meets power? you try crazy things...
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[speaking foreign language] gotta rampant faces a legitimate opponent, alexei navalny. >> i don't put him to be president. >> the kremlin hates navalny so much, we refuse to say his name. >> passengers heard navalny cry out in agony. >> poisoned? seriously? we are creating a coalition to fight this regime. >> if you are killed, what message newly vying for the russian people? >> it is very simple, never give up.
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well, i can't wait what navalny's coming up this sunday 9 pm. jim? >> it is frightening, but it's inspiring. i was able to meet his wife and daughter. that families making a brave stand. thanks so much, laura. i'll be here in ukraine tomorrow for cnn tonight again, laura will be reporting from washington. meanwhile, don lemon? to donovan starts right now. >> good to see you, good to see lower as well. jim, on task, because one day after the deadly strike, that the strike in lviv, what is the feeling on the ground? >> steely. steely nerves of the people here. after tell you, we are on the way the site of one of those muscle strikes today. as we arrived there, minutes after the missiles hit, people are walking on the streets and trying to go back to their daily lives. you see that wal
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