that's it for us tonight. don lemon tonight starts now. we'll get straight to breaking news. see you tomorrow night. this is don lemon tonight. this is our break news at this hour. th there's a dead ly mass shooting in tulsa, oklahoma. police say four people were killed. the gunman also dead. police believe of a self-inflicted gunshot wound. there may be up to ten people wounded.

another one. another mass shooting. look at this video. you can see police in the distance. they are running toward the scene with guns drawn. emergency vehicles racing as other officers take long guns out of their trunks. police say that they were on the scene within three minutes of the first call, arriving while the shooting was still going on. >> the officers that did arrive were hearing shots in the building and that's what directed them to the second floor. >> the president of the united states, joe biden, has been briefed on this shooting and fact is, america is living in fear of gun violence. no place is safe. not hospitals, schools, groes stores, cononcerts, graduations nightclub, office, places of worship, on and on and on. we have news tonight on the investigation of what police did and did not do while a gunman was still inside that elementary school in uvalde where 19

children and two of their children died. the mayor telling the washington post what he called a negotiator was frantically trying to call the gunman on his cell phone but no one picked up. the mayor said he doesn't believe the negotiator knew there were children in the classroom calling 911 and begging police to save them. the more we learn, the worse it seems to get. what do you say those parents burying their children at what should have been the beginning of their lives? what do you say to families burying two teachers who died trying to save their students? what do you say to them when they demand to know why they weren't safe in their own school? they deserve to know the truth. the school police chief who made the decision that officers should not immediately breach the classroom ducking questions from cnn. is he cooperating with the department of public safety or not?

>> just so everybody knows, we have been in contact with dps every day. >> they say you're not cooperating. >> i've been on the phone with them every day. >> they say you're not cooperating them. >> we have been talking to them every day. >> we're just starting. we have a lot to get to on all of this this evening. i want to get right to our breaking news now. gary tuckman is on the scene in tulsa, oklahoma for us. gary, good evening to you. four people dead, i understand, plus the gunman. is that correct? >> reporter: that's correct. here we are dealing with another frightening and appalling mass shooting. this is important to point out. most likely as we speak, family members of these four innocent people who just went to a hospital building today for a check up or say hello to an employee or who was an employee. we don't flow if it was doctors, nurses, other members of the seam who works in this medical building or patients. we don't know who died. we know their family members are being notified as we speak. that's one of the reasons why we

don't know the name of this gun me man yet. he's 35 years old. he is dead. he killed himself in is the campus of st. fran whiccis. it's the largest hospital in tulsa. it's prominent, well known hospital, well respected. 1100 beds in the hospital. the building is the natalie building. it's a specialty building where you go when you don't have to see your doctor. it consists of orthopedists and oncologists officers. there may be other specialties but those are the two main specialties inside. we are told the gunman went to is second floor. there's reports he was looking for a particular person inside the building. that's not verified yet. he was limited to the second floor. he went inside one of the offices and started shooting and killed four innocent people. we don't know the motive for it. police seem know more. they have more information right now. so do members of the government

here in tulsa but they are keeping it quiet where they conduct the investigation. we know the threat is over. police are still out here right now. the gunman is dead but he's taken the lives of innocent people. just one state in eight days away from another high profile shooting you were just talking about. here is the strangest and really unhappy coincidence. i was in oklahoma today to do a story about active shooting training in another part of the state. i was with some of the best trainers in the state, training new officers in active shooting while we're many the middle of the shoot, we found out this happened here. we told the police in western oklahoma what happened. they couldn't believe it. we couldn't believe it. it's happened again. >> you're right. we would be covering the fall out from buffalo and the funerals there and now we're covering the fall out from oou a uvalde and the shooting there and now a new shooting.

gary tuckman joining us from okl oklahoma. four people killed. gary confirming that. the gunman also dead of a self-inflicted gunshot wound. it may be up to ten people wounded. we'll let our gary tuckman go and check back with him throughout the show. captain, thank you for joining us. we understand there's four people killed. shooter also dead. you heard gary tuckman report. what else can you tell us this hour, captain? >> we're just slowing things down. we're relatively calm. i apologize about reporting from my car fbut this is first time i've sat in my car. earlier today we had officers responding to this location because we had a call that someone had a rifle at this facility. officers responded quickly and it turned into an active shooter as officers were in the

building, they heard this shots ringing out in the second floor. they quickly ran up the stairs as they were breaching that door to the second floor of this building, the shooting suddenly stopped. when they got into the area, they found the first victim. they found the next victim and they also found the shooter who had shot himself with a pistol. one person was shot here at the location and transported and died. we have a total of five people who have died. one of which being the shooter. beyond that, it's a multi-floor facility. hundreds of rooms, hundreds of people. it was completely chaos as people ran out and we did a methodical floor by floor search looking at every room. people were hiding. we were able to get them out safely. we have a small number of people injured. we're still working that out. we haven't identified the deceased publicly yet.

we're working on notifying the family and this is a larger story. we're not able to disclose everything at this time because we had to protect the in investigative process. we have investigators in other jur jurisdictions. we are hoping we get more answers to share with the public in near future. >> you said it's wider investigation as you told my colleague earlier. i know there's some things you cannot discussion. our affiliate is reporting that police are responding to bomb threat there. is that related in any way to this shooter? >> it is related. i can't get into too many details on how. we have our investigators, our homicide unit going down there right now and we have investigators on scene recovering evidence and talking to witnesses over there and

providing some details about how it's connected to the location here at the hospital. i can't go into too great of detail because we are still piecing it together. we don't want to give too much information out. >> i understand that, captain. do you have anymore information about what the motive of the gunman might have begun en and he was after? there were earlier reports that there could have been a beef with a doctor. >> i can't do into specifics but i can dtell you it's not random event. it's not as if he went to a hospital and was indiscriminately shooting at people. he very purposely went to this location, went to very specific floor and shot with very specific purpose. unfortunately, just and also just to pay some respect to dw those who have been shot, i think we will get into that later as the investigation

continue continues. this was not a random shooting by this individual. >> you said he had a rifle and a wil handgun. can you provide us with more information about the type of weapons. >> one was a semiautomatic rifle and the other was a semi-automatic pistol. there's other details we are working out about those weapons. there's some question about when he acquired it. we are looking into that as well. >> was it an assault style rifle? >> i can tell you it was semi-automatic. i'm not going to get into the semantics of what an assault rifle is or is not. >> okay. is he known to police? >> i don't know that for a fact. we know his name. i do not know anything about his

criminal record at this time. >> age, range. >> i'm not able to release because we're deep in the i vest g -- investigation. >> obviously the country is dealing with rash of shootings now. buffalo, uvalde. there was one at a high school graduation at xavier college in new orleans. has your department reviewed its active shooter protocols recently? >> we do. as a matter of fact, we recently discussed with the media that we are working. we did a segment where they were teaching and learning active shooter response. our department has had years of active shooter response training. it's one of those things that you train constantly on and you hope you never have to use it. i'm very proud of men and women who ran up the stairs an used it. it's tragic that anybody lost their life, i feel strongly that

the response of our officers prevented the loss of further life. >> captain, thank you for joining us. we appreciate it. i know that you're very busy. it matters not where you are as long as you give us the information and you stay safe. thank you very much. we appreciate you joining us. >> thank you, sir. >> there's a total of five people dead. that's including the gunman. the gunman went to a hospital with a specific purpose, intent. it was intentional. he had certain people in mind. he's not giving us the age of the gunman. he talked about types of weapons. a semi-automatic rifle and a pistol. there's a bomb threat in another community. we'll get -- as we get details we will report them to you. >> julia, thank you. here we go again.

we're talking about another deadly shooting. americans are living in fear of gun violence from grocery stores, schools, churches, graduations, hospital pps where are we supposed to be safe? >> we can get safer. i think safe is difficult now. if we get this idea that we can get to safe, we're going to miss the opportunities to become safer. that needs to be the goal now. we don't need perfection. we need to get to a stage where each of these is viewed, each of these -- we can have an explanation that's individual for each of these. we can look at these individually and not take a step back and just look at the totality which is we can get safer because the common

connective tish shy, we know is guns that are killing quickly. this is what the interview just before told us. i don't think about safe. i don't believe in safe in country like ours but believe in safer. if we can begin to look at that as a focus and not get distracted by all the different tales that each of these tels us and to look at our capacity to assert agency in terms of making us safer than we can some to some resolution. i hate the say this to you and every one, i've been here so much lately. i heard that four people were dead and i thought, honestly, i thought, well that's good. how dare i? in other words, we have become so -- >> that it wasn't more people. >> we have become so immune to these numbers. these are four lives but think of the concentric circles that

are impacted by this for decades to come, children and parents and everything. we need to bear witness. i think that's what we need to do is not look away and bear witness that it's not just four people and that's a good resolution. it's four people and hundreds and thousands impacted by one moment today. >> when i heard about it, it's in oklahoma and you think, well, how many people. that's the first thing you think is how many people. when you hear the number, you say is that going to go up like it often does. >> will that even be your story? to be honest when i got the fist hint, if it's non-dead but a bunch of injured, would that make the news because you have -- we have two other mass shootings going on simultaneously. >> the police department made a point of laying out their quick response time to this incident. in face of what we saw in

uvalde, should that give the public some measure of res reassurance. you don't believe in safe or safer. well, they can act quickly. >> yes. to hear the prooefrs evious int of the officer not answering your questions because he didn't have the answer or he wasn't prepare to and controlling a nag tifr not because he wants to keep the information but because there's a reason why bp we need to validate certain things. the story we're hear about whether there was a motive or particular target, you want to validate before you begin do sur surmise. what we saw in texas was not only a bad response, not a rapid response but delayed activation of rapid response but now the tragedy upon tragedy of a narrative that no one can seem to control because no one seems to be getting control of facts. in other words, we can see that these systems of preparedness,

training, exercises, nimbleness, communication, all of the things that we learn in crisis management can work to minimize the harm. we can, as i say, fail safer. this is not a good night but it could have been worse. i think that's important because then we can begin to both criticize places like texas where they fail to do that but also invest in the preparedness. not just police officers but others in terms of minimizing the consequences, failing safer and making things less bad. that's unfortunately where we are but that should give us some hope in an odd way and we have agency to demand that things are less bad. that we can do. >> we have been covering these for years. i'll just go back do buffalo. you were hear and you said every one said, including you and myself, sadly we'll be back here

doing it again. then uvalde happied and now st tulsa. sadly, we'll be back here doing it again. thank you. pre appreciate it. the deadly shooting in tulsa coming days after the school shooting in texas where there's will the of questions about police response. here is what happened when cnn tried to get some answers. >> i want to talk to you about -- >> just to let you know, i spoke with -- >> i know you did. you're not bluffing. >> turn this way. you're mococking me. not again! the epson ecotank. just fill & chilill. (johnny cash) ♪ i've traveled every road in this here land! ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere, man. ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere, ma ♪ ♪ crossed the desert's bare, man. ♪ ♪ i've breathed the mountain air, man. ♪ ♪ of travel i've had my share, man. ♪ ♪ i've been everywhere. ♪ ♪ i've been to: pittsburgh, parkersburg, ♪ ♪ gravelbourg, colorado, ♪

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tonight's deadly mass shooting in tulsa comes eight days after 19 children and two teachers were shot dead in their classroom. i want to bring in cnn law enforcement analyst. hello to both you have. i want the play part of your exclusive interview with the school police sheaf. here it is. >> i want to talk to you about -- >> sure. just to let you know, i spoke with -- >> i know you did. turn this way. >> just so you know, obviously,

we're not going to release anything. we have people in our community being buried, sir. we're being respectful. >> i want your reaction to the direction saying you were responsible for the decision of going into that room. how do you explain this to the parents? >> we're going to be respectful to the parent. >> you had an opportunity to explain yourself to the parent. >> we'll so that eventually. >> when? >> when ever this is done, the families quit grieving then we will do that, obviously. >> what is he talking about? >> yeah, i don't really know, don. we were just there to try and get lhim to respond to the allegations from the state investigators here that he was the man making the decision, that wrong decision, to not send officers in to take the gunman down with kids inside that classroom calling 911, asking for the police to respond. look, we spent days trying the find him.

we couldn't find him. finally, this morning we saw him leaving his house, going to work and we stopped him. we were able to get him going into his office and asking those questions. clearly wanting to dodge the key issue in all of this, don. >> anthony, are you troubled by what you're hearing from chief when he says he wants to be respectful of the families. aren't they the ones that deserve the answers? this is dodging, right? >> don, it is absolute dodging. the questions that were asked for fair and they deserved a response. he has a different agenda than to give those parents, those children, those teachers, the information that they need. that they are owed due to his tactical failure to make the right calls as the incident

commander in this tragedy. >> the mayor of uvalde told the washington post that he witnessed a would be negotiator trying the reach the gun plan v -- gunman via cell phone. is that the right protocol for an active shooter situation, anthony? >> why are they trying to negotiate? there's an active shooter in there. you've got kids in school. there is no negotiation. you're going in to take out the threat. why a negotiator is trying to negotiate is beyond me. it is the incident commander's fault. when you engage, you keep going until the threat is eliminated. it makes no sense. >> anthony, i've been hearing from members of law enforcement, former members of law enforcement who are saying why are you criticizing the police's

actions in this particular situation. you don't know what's happened yet. the investigation has the play out. stop castin ing aspersions on t police. what do you say to that? >> to hell with them. you have 19 kid, children slaughtered. two teachers, slaughtered and to not look at the incident and say what happened? why did this happen? what can we do better? that's part of the job. the after action reports, the after action review, excuse me, was created by the army in the '70, to look and review what happens after a bad incident or something goes wrong. this went wrong. to say we should not look is foolish. >> thank both very much. appreciate it. he's a texas republican who is demanning action to avoid the

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i'm voting yes on h to recall chesa boudin now. we can't wait one more day when people are dying on our streets. how do we ensure that san francisco can be a city for all? making smart investments in muni with prop a, without raising taxes. investing in our public transportation system with prop a is essential to ensuring everyone in san francisco can get to work and school safely and reliably. prop a improves pedestrian and bike safety throughout san francisco. prop a benefits everyone in every neighborhood, regardless of their income. vote yes, and soon we'll all see the impact of a everywhere. texas governor greg abbott

calling for special legislative committee to make legislative recommendations on school safety, on mental health, social media, firearm training and more. my next guest says that's not enough. joining me is texas state senator. we're so happy that you're here. appreciate it. >> thank you for having me. >> he's talk about governor ab abbott. you say it's doesn't go nar enough. you will join democrats demanding he call a special session. what would you like the see happen? >> what i would like to see happen is a special session in which we can pass legislation, pretty quickly. otherwise, we wait until january of 2023 where we will address thousands of issues and i don't think that -- what that says to families around the country an i don't think it conveys the sort of immediacy we must feel in a

case like this where this terrible tragedy has taken place. now, in tulsa and it's going to happen again. >> twleyou're right. it is going to happen again. when there's a shooting free in odessa, texas, you said that governor abbot declared this wasn't going to happen again. >> right. >> it has happened again. how did that impact you? >> i haven't slept well for eight days because i sat there in 87th legislature and the attendants, couple special sessions and we did nothing. i've spent sleepless nights since then because we should have done something. we should have had a very incise ifr dialogue about what can be done. that's why in my call for the special session i said we should sit down with the fbi and

department of public safety and talk about what would work in odesa or el paso or santa fe or uvalde an start coming up with solutions. there parents right now that are scared to death to send their kids to school tomorrow, september 1st and they need some assurances. i guarantee you the superintendent in public schools all over the state of texas and country are looking at the steps that they have taken but there's a role for the legislature to play. we make the laws. >> listen, you say you haven't done anything. you have done something. texas has loosened restrictions on guns over the last several years. governor abbot signed legislation that you voted for which allows texan, 21 and older to carry handguns in public without license or training. do you think that's a mistake? laws like that, are they mistakes? >> as i look at it, they were

largely unnecessary. more unnecessary than mistake. there was nothing about the bill considered. we want real solutions and things that are really going to hopefulliley lessen the risk th will happen again. >> how do you know what the sloughs are if you don't put everything on table and at least consider. you have to start somewhere. you know that, senator. >> we should consider everything. that's why when you have authoritative sources like dps and fbi come in an say, in our experience, l, these are the things that will lessen this. the problem that you've got is, what would have maybe kept odessa from happening or el paso are not the same things necessarily that could keep uvalde. they why all things ought to be

on the table. we could argue that if 18-year-olds could not buy assault rifles this young man would not have gone into the uvalde school so well armed. >> i appreciate you joining us. we need to talk about solutions. thapgs. thank you so much. >> thank you. there's also a verdict in the johnny depp, amber heard trial to talk about but it's more complicated than you might think. that's next.

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chase. make more of what's yours. the jury mostly siding with johnny depp but ruling he and amber heard defamed each other. he was awarded $15 million in

damages. a jury agreed that heard defam ed lhim in 2018. she alleged domestic abuse. she denies the allegation. heard also counter sued for defamation. she was awarded $2 million in damages and plans to file an appeal. it's a bit confusing. there's a lot to talk about. cnn legal analyst, joey jackson both join us now. thank you and good evening to both of you. break this verdict down for us. this is really a victory in large part for johnny depp. >> it is in a sense that he got a jury award, 10 million in compensatory damages. 5 million in punitives which was reduced by the judge. i don't know if we should call it a victory for johnny depp when think about the mountain of

evidence came out suggesting and, in my opinion, proving that he abused amber laheard. we know there's evidence he presented in his own case about drug and alcohol use. text messages where he is calling his ex-wife the most horrific names you can think of. talking about wanting to have sex with her burned corpse. i don't think this jury award, this monetary award and johnny depp, this was never about money but i don't think he can consider this a victory. i don't think any of us should consider it a victory. >> he does consider it a victory. he said as much. he was out there having drinks and was celebrating. >> he's entitled to that but if you call it being a victory to have shown before the world, the kind of comments and the conduct that you engaged in with respect to your ex-wife, i don't see how that's a victory for someone who wants to be revered in the

media. i don't think it's a victory at all. >> jury yoey you say the jury rejected amber heard at first. was her credibility on trial. do you think it's a victory as well? >> yeah, her credibility was on trial. there's two different courts to talk about. i think addressing the court of public opinion and with respect to the evidence and how, in my view, i was shocked because it was compelling evidence as to misconduct of some type, not criminal, of course but just with respect to how he treats women. in terms of court, this was a resounding victory for johnny depp. it's actually not only false but in injurious to reputation which impairs you have to establish

the causal connection to the reputation and standing in industry which the jury found. what those damages are is they are damages designed to compensate you, to make you whole. to put you in the position you vulds have been in absent the defamatory statement. the jury bought his diminishing stardom as a result of that. then you add the other element. you have to establish actual malice. it's you saying something or writing something with falsity or a reckless disregard to the truth. in this day and age where we say what we want, do what we want, we wax poetic about what we want for the the jury to dlestablish the conclusion, from a legal perspective this was a complete win for johnny depp. we can argue all night as to whether h jury got it right, the

language used as it relates to amber heard and other women. question have that discussion but from a legal perspective, wow. just shocking to me that he carried the day in the seven member jury was unanimous. >> i was shocked with the public figure because the bar for deaf police station is high. they are both public figures so maybe that played into it. amber released there statement saying she is heartbroken over the verdict. i'm even more disappointed with what this verdict means for other women. it's seat back. it sets back the clock to a time when a woman who spoke up and spoke out could be publicly shamed and humiliated. the idea that violence against women is to be taken seriously. what's your reaction to that? >> i agree with it wholeheartedly. let me say this, no doubt i agree with joey in terms of legally what happened, johnny depp is the big winner. he got a 15 million dollar civil

judge against amber heard. the jury accepted all of his claims. they found him credible. they rejected the notion she was abused at all. the jury didn't believe it. they rejected it. i think this is a huge loss for women. another rich and powerful man wins the day. i think it will chill the speak that women have a constitutional right to talk about these allegations. this is the biggest trial we have seen in this era and in the biggest trial that we have seen in a time period when we say we are believing women resoundingly this jury did not believe the woman.

i was shocked by that. not just the social media attacks on amber heard but even this jury. there were five men on this seven panel jury. i think that will be an interesting study as we learn more about who these five men are. i say this an effort the right the ship. i'm saddened by it as lawyer that's represented because i know how hard it is for women to talk about being abused. this will make it harder. >> there's so much to talk about. we can go on and on. i don't have the time in this moment. we'll get back to this conversation. this is not be end the thank you both. i appreciate it. president biden questioned on what he knew and when he knew

it about the formula shortage affecting family across the country. his surprising answer, next. another shooting tonight. four people dead in tulsa, oklahoma. we'll have the latest at the top of the hour. so they only pay for what they need. woooooooooooooooo... we are not getting you a helicocopter. only pay for what you need. ♪liberty, liberty, , liberty. liberty.♪

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this white house is dealing with one crisis after another, gun violence, a critical shortage of baby formula. i want to go to caitlin collins. what is the white house saying about the shooting in tulsa? >> president biden has been briefed on it. four people have been killed so

far. you talk about one crisis after another. it's also one shooting after another the white house is having to deal with. it seems like every other day almost president biden is being briefed. tonight he was briefed on what happens in tulsa, eight days ago it was what happened in texas and then before that in buffalo, new york. it came today, reporters asked immediateli immediatelien -- president biden if if he felt confident anything was going to happen in congress with guns. he said he served in congress and he is never confident that congress is going to get something done. >> you had the opportunity to ask the president tonightab abo what he knew or knows about the baby formula shortage and why the president didn't act faster.

what have you heard? >> reporter: since february when that plant closed, which is causing so many of the shortages, they said they've been working on this since day one, which would have been mid february, when the fda shuttered its doors and was told to work on their problems. he was talking to these plants about whether they knew they would have the problems they did. >> the fda took months and then

only shuttered it in february? >> the real problem occurred when it got shuttered. you're saying they should have anticipated it would be shuttered. >> reporter: [ inaudible ]. >> well, here's the deal. i became aware of this problem sometime after april -- in early april about how intense it was. so we did everything in our power from that point on. that's all can i tell you right now. >> so, don, white house officials have not answered why the president was not informed until at least six weeks after this plant was shuttered about just how severe these shortages were going to be when it came to baby formula. you heard executives today talk. this issue is so concentrated. there are so few baby makers in the united states that they knew it was going to have a severe impact and it raises questions about how quickly the fda was

acting. lawmakers say they got complaints about this back in the fall, that the fda was slow to interview people and conduct those investigations and slow to shutter that factory which did not happen until february. big questions about why the president himself was not informed. >> caitlin collins in washington, thank you very much for that. at least four dead tonight after a gunman opened fire at a hospital campus in tulsa, oklahoma. we are live on the scene next. this... is the planning effect. this is how it feels to know yoyou have a wealth plan that covers evererything that's important to you. this is what it's like to have a dedicated fidelity advisor looking at your full financial picture. making sure you have the right balance of risk and reward. and helping you plan for future generations. this is "the planning effect" from fidelity.

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so this is our breaking news tonight. there's another deadly mass shooting in america, this time on a hospital campus in tulsa, oklahoma. police say four people were killed and as many as ten other injured. the gunman is also dead, officials believe