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that's it for us tonight i'll be back tomorrow night, don lemon starts right now. >> we're going to get straight to the breaking news. this is don lemon tonight, it just keeps happening, this is our breaking news at this hour, there's a deadly mass shooting in tulsa, oklahoma, police say four people were killed, the gunman also dead, police believe of a self-inflicted gun-shot wound. there may be up to ten people wounded. another one. another mass shooting. you can see police in the distance running towards the scene with guns drawn, emergency vehicles racing as other officers take long guns out of their trunks. police say that they were on the scene within three minutes of

the first call arriving while the shooting was still going on. >> the officers that did arrive were hearing shots in the building and that's what directed them to the second floor. >> so the president of the united states joe biden has been briefed on the shoot and the act is though america is living in fear of gun violence. no place is safe, not hospitals, schools, grocery stores, concerts, movie theaters, graduations, nightclubs, places of worship, on and on and on and on. we have news of what police did and didn't do while a gunman was new the elementary school in uvalde where 19 children 257bd teachers died. -- and 2 teachers died. the mayor saying he doesn't believe the negotiator knew there were children in the classroom

calling 911 begging police to save them. more we learn worse it seems to get. what do you say to those parents bury those children that should have been the beginning of their lives, to the families of two teacher who's died trying to save their students. what do you say when you demand to know why they weren't safe in their own school. they deserve to know the truth but school police chief pete arredondo made the decision officers shouldn't immediately breach the classroom ducking questions from cnn. he is cooperating with the department of public safety or not. >> just so everybody knows we've been in contact with dps every day. every day. >> they say you're not cooperating. >> i've been on the phone with them every day. just so you know we've been talking to them every day. >> we're just starting. we have a lot to get to.

i want to get to our breaking news right now gary tuckman on the scene in tulsa, oklahoma, four people dead plus the gunman is that correct? >> that's correct, don. here we are dealing with another frightening and pauling mass shooting. this is really important to point out, most likely as we speak, family members of those four innocent people who just went in for a check up or say hello to employees, or other members of the team who works in the medical building or patients, we don't know who died we do know the family members are being notified as they speak that's why we don't know the name of the gunman. he's 35 years old, he brought a rifle and gun inside and he is dead. this is the largest catholic hospital system in tulsa very

prominent and well-respected with 1100 beds in the main hospital. behind me in the natalie building is where this happened, it's a specialty building where you don't have to be an in-patient, where you go see your doctor, it has orthopedic and oncology specialties inside. we're told this gunman went to the second floor and reports he was looking for a particular person that's not verified but he was limbitied to the second floor when he started shooting he killed four innocent people. police say they have more information right now so do the members in of the government in tulsa. keeping it quiet as they continue the investigation. we know the gunman is dead, he has taken the life of four innocent people just eight days away from the shooting in

uvalde. here's the strangest and really unhappy coincidence, i was in oklahoma about a story doing active-shooter training with some of the best in the state, while in the middle of the shoot we found out this happened here and told the police in western oklahoma it happened and they couldn't believe it, we can't believe it is happening it again. >> you're right, we're covering the fall out from buffalo and the funerals there and now uvalde funerals there and another shooting from tulsa, four people killed, the gunman also dead, police believe of a self-inflicted gunshot wound. there may be up to ten people wounded. we'll let gary tuckman go and check with him throughout the show. stay tune for new information

coming in. joining me now captain muhlenberg thank you for joining us we understand four killed and shooter is dead, what else can you tell us at this hour? >> i can tell you we're just slowing things down, this happened late this afternoon and we're to the point we're now relatively calm. i apologize for report from my car, this is the first time i sat in my car today. earlier we had a call that someone had a rifle at the facility and officers responded very quickly and it turned into a active shooter as officers were in the building they heard shots ringing out in the second floor, they quickly ran upstairs, as they were breaching the door to the second door of the building the shooting suddenly stopped so when it got into the area they found the first victory, they found the

next victim and they also found the shooter who had shot himself with a pistol. one person was shot here at the location and transported and died. so we have a total of five people who died, one of which being the shooter. beyond that, it's a multi-floor facility. hundreds of rooms. hundreds of people. it was complete chaos as people ran out. we did a methodical floor by floor search looking at every room. people were hiding. we were able to get them out safely. we have a small number of people injured. we're still working that out. we haven't identified the deceased publicly yet. we are working on notifying the family. and this say larger story we're not able to disclose everything at this time. because we have to protect the investigative process. we'll have more as the night goes on. we have investigators in other

jurisdictions. we have multiple jurisdictions here and hope to get more answers to share with the public in the very near future. >> okay. you said it is a wider investigation as you told my come egypt laura earl colleague laura earlier. and some things you can't discuss. muskogee police are related to a bomb threat is that related to this shooter. >> it is related. we have our investigators homicide unit going down there right now and we have investigators on scene recovering evidence and talking to witnesses over there that are providing details how it is connected to the location here at the hospital so i can't go into too great of detail because we're still piecing it together and don't want to get too much information out. >> i understand that, captain. do you have any more information

about the motive of the gunman. don't want to speculate but early reports were there may have been a beef with a doctor. can you tell us about that? >> so i can't go into specifics but can tell you this is not a random event. it's not as if he went to a hospital and indiscriminately shooting at people. he very purposefully went to this location, a very specific floor and shot with a very specific purpose. unfortunately -- and also, just to -- to pay some respect to those who have been shot, i think we will get into that later as the investigation continues, but this was not a just random shooting by this individual. >> you -- you said that he had a rifle and handgun. >> correct. >> can you provide more information, you said it was a pistol and then the type of ri

rifle. >> one was a semi automatic rifle and the other semi-automatic pistol. there's details we're working out with those particular weapons and can't get into details with that. there's question about when he acquired them. >> was it assault-style rifle? >> i can tell you it was semi-automatic. i'm not going to get into the semantics of what an assault rifle is or not. >> okay. is he known to police? >> so, i don't know that for a fact. we do know his name. i do not know anything about his criminal record at this time. >> age? range? >> i have that but we're not able to release that because we're still deep in the investigation. >> so captain, listen, obviously this country is dealing with a rash of mass shootings right now, buffalo, uvalde, over a dozen others over the holiday weekend. there was one at a high school

graduation at xavier college in new orleans. had your department reviewed its active-shooter protocols recently? >> we do. matter of fact we just recently discussed with the media that we -- our rookie class -- our a present police officers did a segment they were teaching and learning active-shooter response. our department has had years of active-shooting response training it's one thing you train constantly on and hope to never have to use it but i'm very proud of the men and women who ran up those stairs and used it. while it's absolutely tragic that anybody lost their life i feel strongly the rapid response of the officers prevented further life. >> captain thank you for joining us, we breesh it. us, we appreciate it. thank you for the information,

stay safe. we appreciate you joining us. >> thank you, sir. >> that was captain richard muhlenberg from the tulsa police department, saying five are dead including the gunman who went to the hospital with a specific purpose, it was intentional, he had certain people in mind, he's not giving us the age of the gunman, talked about the type of weapon, semi-automatic rival and iist of ol and a wider investigation part of that is a bomb threat in another community. as we get details we'll report them here on cnn. i want to bring in our analyst. thank you, here we go again. another deadly shooting. americans are living in fear of gun violence from grocery stores, churches, hospitals, where are we supposed to be safe? >> we can get safer. i think safe is difficult now. if we can get this idea we can

get to safe we'll miss the opportunities to become safer. i think that needs to be the goal now and we need to be honest about it. we don't need perfection, we basically need to get to the stage where each of these is seen -- we can have an explanation that's individual for each of these, the loser, the loaner, the enigma, the radical, the guy with the grievance, it's a blue state or red state or hospital or synagogue or church and it takes two minutes or an hour for the police to come. we can look at these individuality and not step back and look at the totality which is we can get safer. the common connective tissue we know is guns that are killing quickly. i don't think about safe. i study the history of disasters. i don't believe in safe in a country like ours but i believe in safer.

if we can begin to look at that as a focus and not get distracted by the different tales each of these tells us and to look at all right capacity to assert agency in terms of making us safer then we can get some resolution. i hate to say this to you and to everyone, you know, i've been here so much lately and i heard that four people were dead and i thought, honestly, don, i thought, well that's good. like, hair dare i? right. we've become so immune to these numbers now. these are four -- four lives, but think of the concentric circle that's are impacted by this for decades to come, children, parents and everything. so we need to bare witness. i think that's what we need to do is look away and bare witness. it's not that it's just four people and that's a good

resolution -- it's four people and hundreds and thousands impacted by one moment today. >> yeah. when you hear about it, you hear it is in oklahoma and first thing you think is how many people. right. then you hear the number and you say is that going to go up like it often does. >> right. will that even be your story. to be honest, when i first got the first, if none dead but a bunch injured will that even make the news because we have two other mass shootings going on simultaneously. >> the police department made a point of laying out their quick response time to this incident, in the face of what we saw in uvalde should it give the public reassurance. >> yes >> is some measure of okay, they can act quickly. >> it is, yes. and to hear the previous interview of the officer not answering your questions because

he didn't have the answer or he wasn't prepared to which is what he should be doing and controlling the narrative not because he wants to keep the information but because there's a reason why we need to validate the story about whether there was motive or particular target. you want to validate before you begin to surmise. and what we saw in texas is not only a bad response, not rapid response but delayed activation of a rapid response but now the tragedy upon tragedy of a narrative that nobody can control because nobody is getting control of the facts. in other words, we can see these systems of preparedness, training, exercises, nimbleness, communication, all things we learn in crisis communication can work to minimize the harm. we can as i say fail safer. this is not a good night but it could have been worse.

that's important because we can begin to criticize places like texas where they fail to do that but also invest in the participantness of not just police officers but others -- preparedness. making things less bad. that's unfortunate where we are but should give us hope in a odd way and we have agency to demand that things are less bad. that we can do. >> we've been covering these for years. i will just go back to buffalo. you were here and everyone said, including you and myself, sadly we'll be back here doing it again. then uvalde happened and we said sadly we'll be back here doing it again. now tulsa shock, sadly, now tulsa, sadly, we'll be back here doing it again. deadly shooting days after the school shooting in texas where there's a whole lot of questions about the police response. here's what happened when cnn

tried to get some answers. >> want to talk about -- >> -- just so you know -- i spoke with them. >> you're not blocking me are you. >> no, no --

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questions about the shootings, bringing in our guests, appreciate you joining us. want to play part of the exclusive interview with the school police chief pete arredondo, here it is. >> want to talk to you about the decision -- >> just to let you all know -- you're not block meg are you. >> no, no no. >> just so you all know obviously we're not going to release anything. we have people in our community being buried so we're going to be respectful. >> i just want your reaction to the responsibility of the decision to go into that room how do you explain yourself. >> we're going to be respectful to the family. >> i understand that but you have an opportunity explain yourself to the parents. >> we're going to do that obviously. >> when? >> whenever this is done and families quick grieving then we'll do that obviously. >> so what is he talking about?

>> yeah, i don't really know, don, quite honestly, we were just there to try to get him to respond to the allegations from the state investigators that he was the man that made that wrong decision to not send officers in to take the gunman down with kids in that classroom calling 911 asking for the police to respond. so, look, we spent days trying to find him. we couldn't find him. finally this morning we saw him leaving his house going to work and we stopped him and were able to get him going into his office and asked him those questions, clearly wanted to dodge the key issue in all of this, don. >> anthony, are you troubled by what you're hear from chief arredondo when he said he wants to be respectful of the families, aren't they the one that's deserve these answers. i mean, this is dodging, right? >> don, it is absolutely dodging. the questions that were asked

were fair and they deserved a response. so, he has a different agenda than to give those parents those children, those teachers the information that they need, that they are owed due to his tactical failure to make the right calls at the incident commander in this tragedy. >> the mayor of uvalde, told "the washington post" he witnessed a would-be negotiate try to reach the cellphone of the shooter is . >> why are the y trying to negotiate. there's a active shooter in there. you've got kids in school. there is no negotiation. you're going in to take out the

threat. why a negotiator is trying to negotiate is beyond me. it is the incident commander's fault. when you engage you keep going until the threat is eliminated. it makes no sense. >> anthony, i have been hear from members of law enforcement, former members of law enforcement who are saying why are you criticizing the police action in this particular situation, you don't know what happened yet, the investigation has to play out, stop casting aspersions on the police what do you say to that? >> to hell with them. you've got 19 kids, children, slaughtered, two teachers, slaughtered and to not look the at the incident and say what happened? why did this happen? what can we do bet sner -- better?

that's part of the job. the after-action review was created by the army in the '70s to look and review what happens after a bad incident. or something goes wrong. this went wrong. to say we should not look is foolish. >> thank you both very much. i appreciate it. >> so he's a texas republican demanding action to avoid the next mass shooting in his state, action his governor is so far not taking. state senator will speak out here. he's next.

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so texas governor greg abbott calling for special legislative committee to make recommendations on school training, mental health and firearm school safety and more but my next guest says it's not enough, state senator kel seliger glad you're here >> thank you for having me. >> let's talk about governor abbott you say you will demand him to call a special session, tell me why. what would you like see happen? >> what i'd like to see happen is a special session in which we can pass legislation pretty quickly. otherwise we wait until january

2023 we will address thousands of views where i don't see what that says to families around the country, i don't think it conveys the immediacy we must feel in a case like this where this terrible tragedy has taken place now in tulsa and it's going to happen again. >> when there was a shooting, you're right -- it is going to happen again, sadly. when there was a shooting spree in an area you represent you said governor abbott declared did wasn't going to happen again. >> right. >> it has happened again. how did that impact you. >> i haven't slept well for eight days because i sat in the 87th legislature and cup. special sessions and we did nothing. and i've spent sleepless nights since then because we should have done something. we should have at least had a

very decisive dialogue about what can be done that's why in my call for special session i said we should sit with the fbi, department of public safety, alcohol tobacco and firearms and talk about what would work in odessa or santa fe or uvalde and start coming up with solutions. there's parents right now that are scared to death to send their kids to school tomorrow and september 1st and they need assurances. i guarantee superintendents in public schools all over the state are looking again at the step they've taken but there's a role for legislature to play, we with make the laws. >> you have done something, texas has loosened restrictions on guns over the last several years. governor abbott signed le ledge

solicitation that you legislation that allows carry without training is that mistake. >> as i look at it, nothing about the bill on permitless carry in 2021 that would have kept uvalde from happening so we want real solutions and things that will lessen the risk that this will happen again. >> how do you know what the solutions are if you don't put everything on the table and at least consider. you got to start somewhere. >> we should consider everything, that's why when you have authoritative sources like dps and fbi come in with experience, substantial, these are the things that will lessen this. the problem that you've got is

that what would have maybe kept odessa from happening or el paso are not the same things necessarily that would keep uvalde and that's why all things ought to be on the table. we could argue if 18 years old could not buy assault rifles this young man would not have gone into the uvalde school so well-armed. >> senator kel seliger we appreciate you joining us and hope you will join us again, wish we had more time but again, here we go with breaking news we need to cover more but thank you so much. >> any time. thank you. >> thank you. there's also a verdict in the johnny depp and amber heard trial to talk about. it's more complicated than you might think. this is how it feels to have a dedicated fidelity advisor looking at your full financial picture. this is what it's like to have a comprehensive wealth plan

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awarded a total of $15 million in damages. a jury agreed with depp's accusation that in -- heard counter sued also for defamation she awarded $2 million and plans to file an appeal. it's a bit confusing. s a stlot talk about. we have our legal analyst joining us now. thank you and good evening to both of you. let's break down the verdict. it was a long trial. shocking testimony. it is a victory in large part for johnny depp >> it is in the sthense a jury

award compensatory damages, $5 million in punitive reduced by the judge statutory cap to $350,000 so important note that. i don't know if we should call it victory for johnny depp when we think of the evidence sugtding, in suggesting, in my opinion proving he abused amber heard, in his own words abusing her talking about wanting to have sex with her burned corps. i don't think this -- he said it was never about money i don't think he or any of us should consider it a victory. >> he does consider it a victory, he said as much, he was having drinks and celebrating. >> he's entitled to that but if you call it a victory to produce

before millions of people the kind of comments and comments you engaged in with respect to your ex-wife i don't see how that's a victory for someone who wants to be revere in the media. i don't think it's victory at all. >> joey the jury rejected amber heard was her creditability on trial and why do i say that? do you think it's a victim a as well. >> do you think it's a victory as well. >> yeah, i think there's two different things we're talking about, addressing the public opinion in respect to the evidence in my view i was shocked because it was compelling evidence of misconduct, with respect to how he treats women. but in terms of court it was a resounding victory for johnny depp, there's no question about that, when you look at d

defamation statement, in this case false writing injurious to reputation which impairs rkz you have to establish causal connection of that reputation and standing in the industry and talking about compensatory damages those are damages designed to compenseate you and make you whole to put you in the position you would have been in absent those defame torrey statements and the juror bought into his diminishing stardom because of that and because he's a public figure you have to establish malice, what's that? you writing something with knowledge or falsity or a reckless disregard to the truth. so this day and age we say and do what we want, right, we wax poetic about what we want, for the jury to establish those

conclusions no question from a legal perspective this was just a complete win for johnny depp. we can argue all night as to whether the jury got it right, as to whether what we heard about drug use and other issues, the language as relates to amber heard and other women whether it's improper we can have that discussion but a legal perspective wow he carried day on seven member jury. >> the bar for lander and defamation is high but they're both public figures, maybe that played into it. amber heard released the statement saying she's heartbroken over the verdict and more disappointed what it means for other women it sets back to the clock to a time when a woman who spoke up and spoke out could be shamed and humiliated and that violence to women is to be

taken seriously what's your reaction >> i agree whole heartily, in terms of legally what happens, johnny depp is the big winner he got $15 million civil judgment against amber heard. the jury accepted all of his claims and found him creditable and basically found her not to be a creditable witness, they rejected the notion she was abused at all. even though there was evidence of multiple occurrences of physical abuse the jury rejected it. i think it's a huge loss for women. another rich and powerful man wins the day. women who have been afraid to come forward to talk about abuse and powerful men i think will be further discouraged from doing so. i think it would chill the speech that women have a constitutional right to use to talk about these kinds of allegations. this is the biggest trial we've

seen in this era and in the biggest trial that we've seen in a time period when we say we are believing women resoundingly this jury did not believe the woman. i was shocked by that. not just the social media attacks on amber heard how she was villified in the social media but shouldn't be lost on us that there were five men on this seven-panel jury not to say that that per se had anything to do with it but i think it will be an interesting study as we learn more about who these five men are, how men are thinking in this moment about the me too movement, we know there's backlash in the movement, some men thinking it went too far and maybe some sociologist or someone studying this will say it's an effort to right the ship as it relates to these allegations but i'm saddened by it, as a lawyer, i know how hard it is for women to talk about

being abused. this will make it even harder. >> so much we can talk about unfortunately i don't have the time in this moment. we'll get back to this conversation, this is not the end of course. thank you both. i appreciate it. president biden what he knew and what he knew it about the baby formula shortage effecting families across the country, his surprising answer next and another deadly shooting in tulsa shock, oklahoma, we'll have the latest at the top of the hour.

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this white house is dealing with one crisis after another, the latest gun violence, even the critical shortage of baby

formula. i want to go to kaitlan collins. what is the white house saying about the shooting in tulsa? >> we know president biden has been briefed on it. four people have been killed so far. you talk about one crisis after another. it's also one shooting after another the white house is having to deal with. it seems like every other day almost president biden is being briefed. tonight he was briefed on what happens in tulsa, eight days ago it was what happened in texas and then before that in buffalo, new york. so this is something that has become this reoccurring issue for the white house in recent days. and we should note it came today reporters asked president biden if he felt confident anything was going to happen in congress when it came to guns. obviously that's been the big discussion here as you see what's been happening out in the nation. he said he's served in congress, don, and he's never confident congress is going to get something done. and we're waiting to see where those negotiations play out. >> you also had the opportunity

to ask the president tonight what he knew or knows about the baby formula shortage and why the government didn't react faster to this. what did you learn, kaitlan? >> reporter: this has been a big question. the president gave this puzzling answer who said you heard from white house officials when the plant closed and that caused so many of the shortage issues you see playing out in the nation right now. they say they saw this happening day one and trying to work on the contamination issues they were having, but the president told us today it was actually weeks into the crisis before he knew the depth what was going on, just how bad this shortage truly was. we should note what you're about to hear from president biden came as he was having this with baby formula manufacturers. he was talking to them and asking them if they knew when this plant closed in february that they were going to have the level of issues that they were, they were going to see the

impact it did. and he told us he did not find out until weeks later just how bad it was going to be. >> they've been more aware of that when they took months to conduct the inspection to interview people and only shuttered it in february? >> well, the real problem occurred when it got shuttered. so you're saying they should have anticipated it would be shuttered. the answer is -- well, here's the deal. i became aware of this problem some time after april -- in early april about how intense it was. and so we did everything in our power from that point on, and that's all i can tell you right now. >> so, don, of course white house officials have not answered why the president was not informed until at least six weeks after this plant was shuttered about just how severe these shortages were going to be when it came to baby formula.

and you heard executives talk today this issue is so concentrated, there's so few baby formula makers in the united states they knew it was going to have a really severe impact. and it also raises questions, don, about how quickly the fda was acting because lawmakers say they got complaints about this back in the fall, that the fda was slow to interview people. they were slow to conduct those investigations and of course slow to shutter that factory which did not happen until february. so big questions for why the president himself was not informed since the white house has said this was a whole of government approach since february. >> kaitlan collins in washington. thank you very much for that. at least four dead tonight after a gunman opened fire in a hospital campus in tulsa, oklahoma. we're live on the scene next. ff. this stuff works down to the root so weeds don't come back. this stuff works without hurting your back. this stuff works guaranteed, or your money back. this is roundup weed & grass killer with sure shot wand. this stuff works.

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so this is our breaking news tonight. there's another deadly mass shooting in america, this time on a hospital campus in tulsa,