before i hang up my spikes, it's almost -- it's almost more devastating, the sense of personal failure to them. >> reporter: sunlen serfaty, cnn, washington. >> and senator chris murphy is joining anderson tonight. thanks for joining us. "ac 360" begins now. good evening. any fair minded person who has followed the life and presidency of donald j. trump knows that he lies and lies a lot. what we learned today from the sworn testimony of those who worked closely with then-president trump is that they knew he lied just as much as we thought he did. the former president of the united states lied about nonexistent election fraud before, during, and after the 2020 election. he lied despite being told again and again and again that it was not exist ant, that there was no widespread election fraud by the people around him, his

supporters in the white house. they were telling him, using many different kinds of words, that what he was saying was a lie. he lied in an effort to stop the counting of ballots on election night and to later cast doubt on their validity. and allegedly he lied in pursuit of a quarter billion dollars in campaign donations to a fund he lied about the very existence of, an election defense fund that did not exist. those are the elements of the case the january 6th committee is building against donald trump, and today in the second installment of televised hearings, it was testimony from some of the former president's most senior advisers at the time who actually made that case, including his campaign manager, bill stepien, and the sitting attorney general of the united states at the time, bill barr. as you'll hear -- and this is from the other -- or this is the other takeaway from today's proceedings, much of what they had to say to the former president at the time and more recently to the select committee would have been useful for the public to know back in the moment. for instance, that the country's top law enforcement official at

the time thought this about the commander in chief's mental state. >> i thought, boy, if he really believes this stuff, he has, you know, lost contact with -- with -- he's become detached from reality if he really believes this stuff. >> now, that would have been important to know at the time. so would this about who the former president was taking advice from on election night when he decided to falsely claim he'd won the election. >> a few of us, myself, jason miller, justin clark, mark meadows, gathered in a room off the map room to listen to whatever rudy presumably wanted to say to the president. >> was there anyone in that conversation who, in your observation, had had too much to drink? >> uh, rudy giuliani. >> tell me more about that. what was your observation about

his potential intoxication during that discussion about what the president should say when he addressed the nation on election night. >> the mayor was definitely intoxicated but i do not know that his level of intoxication when he spoke with the president, for example. >> the public might have benefitted from knowing that as well, that some of the former president's top campaign advisers knew their boss was being encouraged to lie to the country by an allegedly intoxicated, but who knows how precisely intoxicated rudy giuliani. none of the people you just heard went public with any of that at the time, which in no small way is what today's testimony was all about. the former president was pushing a dangerous lie which they were either actively enabling in rudy giuliani's case or enabling by their public silence. here's more of what the committee presented today. former top officials of the president talking about the bogus election claims that their boss, the former president, and

his confederates were pushing and what some of those officials said to him about it. >> the stuff that his people were shuttling out to the public was bullshit. >> not true. >> nuts. >> complete nonsense. >> completely bogus and silly. >> not supported by the evidence. >> idiotic. >> they don't pan out. >> crazy stuff. >> i said to him, are you out of your f-ing mind? he said, i only want to hear two words coming out of your mouth from now on. orderly transition. >> we'll be joined shortly by a former adviser to the committee as well as by the former president's niece, mary trump. joining us now, select committee member and house intelligence committee chairman adam schiff. chairman schiff, i appreciate you joining us. i want to get to today's testimony, but the former president late tonight just released a 12-page response to your committee accusing you, among other things, of hiding evidence, cherry-picking what testimony to release.

he claims that, quote, maga witnesses had, quote, their very lives turned upside down. do you want to even respond? just to be clear, witnesses knew they were being recorded and knew their testimony might become public. is that accurate? >> yes. and, look, i only had a chance to skim the former president's latest lengthy diatribe. but what was most notable to me was it's more of the same big lie. he repeats a lot of the claims that were debunked long ago, and you played a nice montage of all the people talking about how, you know, how much b.s. that was. well, the b.s. goes on, and it goes on at great length. this is the thing that we want to get across, and that is that big lie about our election that began before the election with the president laying the foundation and saying you couldn't trust the election if he lost it and that votes counted after election day were going to be suspect even though

he knew that because of all the absentees, votes would have to be counted after election day. that big lie that ultimately led to a violent attack on our capitol, he continues to push out to this day. >> and there are people running on that big lie, running to be the person who would be in charge of next elections in states. it became clear today that the then-president was told over and over and over by the people close to him, his attorney general, his campaign manager, his own family, that he lost the election. how key is that to your committee's investigation? >> i think it's very important for the public to know, that is, that the president was told by his own people at the highest levels that there's no merit to this. there's no way that these allegations could be true. and, you know, the president, you were saying, is claiming that these are cherry-picked statements. i don't know how you could cherry-pick when your own

attorney general says you're full of b.s. essentially. but it is important to show the country that this wasn't a president who was merely mistaken or just merely misled. this was willful on his part. he knew he lost. he was told that he lost. he was told that these claims that people awere making are crazy. it didn't matter to him. and even when the capitol was attacked, he sat and he watched it. he thought that, you know, the vice president may have had it coming. and so this is who he is, and to those of us that watched him carefully over the last five years, it's not at all a surprise. but it is quite a dangerous thing. >> the select committee's chairman, bennie thompson, told reporters tonight the committee will not be making any criminal referral to the department of justice regarding the former president or anyone else in his orbit. do you agree with that decision even if the committee uncovers evidence of criminal wrongdoing? >> you know, i haven't seen the chairman's statements.

we haven't had a discussion about that, so i don't know that the committee has reached a position on whether we make a referral or what the referrals might be. i thought we were deferring that decision until we concluded our investigation. at least that's my understanding. >> on top of raising a quarter billion dollars for an election integrity fund that didn't actually exist, your colleague, congresswoman zoe lofgren, told our jake tapper that kimberly guilfoyle was paid $60,000 for her very brief speech at the ellipse on january 6th. does the former president control how all that money raised is spent? >> you know, i don't know who has their hands on that money and how it's allocated. the principal point that we want to get across during the hearing today was that the big lie was not only destructive to the country, it was also used to bilk the president's own supporters, to get money from them under the claim it was going to be used to defend their

position on the election, and it wasn't for that purpose. there was no such fund. and instead, that fund can be used as a kind of slush fund. in terms of who controls it, what oversight, it's anybody's guess, and at this point i'm not sure i could tell you. >> you said on abc over the weekend that you think there's credible evidence of criminal activity on the part of the former president. that sounds like you would want that referred to the justice department even if bennie thompson that they don't have plans to do that. >> well, i think that any credible evidence that the president of the united states, the former president, was engaged in criminal activity, or anybody else for that matter, needs to be investigated. and it's not just me that thinks there is credible evidence. federal judge david carter, of course, has said that on multiple times. on the basis of his view of a far more limited set of evidence than what the committee pos possesses. so my point is that, you know, a president doesn't get a pass.

and particularly if the department of justice takes the position as it did while he was president that you can't indict a sitting president, to then take the position that it would be too controversial , confers kind of immunity on the president, which is a dangerous idea. >> we've obviously heard statements like this in the recent past about president trump, that he did something criminal. we've seen the former president investigated before. you were obviously involved in some of those cases. and criminally, so far, nothing has been proven in a court of law. >> well, certainly true that he hasn't been charged with a crime. now, there are multiple investigations going on, so that might change. my point is, though, that if there is credible evidence of criminal activity -- and here i believe there is -- it needs to be investigated. ultimately it's up to the department of justice where they believe they have proof beyond a reasonable doubt such that they feel comfortable moving forward

with indictment. but i don't think you can just not investigate. i think it has to be looked at. it has to be looked into just as it would for any other u.s. citizen or non-citizen for that matter. nobody gets a pass. nobody should get a pass if the rule of law applies equally to everyone. >> congressman schiff, appreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you. i want to get perspective now from former republican congressman who served as a senior technical adviser to the select committee, denver riggleman, also conservative attorney george conway. what does it say this whole thing was partially borne out of an allegedly inebriated rudy giuliani on election night? >> well, you're very fortunate to have an expert like myself not only in data analytics and counterterrorisms, but i own distilleries. so i can talk about people that look like they're inebriated. what's amazing is you don't need to be inebriated to hear the kind of crazy that was coming out of rudy giuliani's mouth and even today. i've been -- you know, sadly, a lot of distillery conversations

with people are ineven rated and i still haven't heard anything as crazy as the stuff i've heard today. i've been on the committee for some time and there's things i'm not going to talk about. but when you talk about rudy giuliani and the people actually grifting off of this, i'm going to tell you this. everybody had a money motive here. i think when you saw the financial individual, amanda, talk about the $250 million, i think that's the floor. when you talk about conspiracy theories, rudy giuliani, lynn wood and sidney powell, you don't have to be inebriated to make a lot of money off a lie. the big lie was really the basis for the big grift. i want to introduce one term to the american public right now, and i hope they're ready. it's very technical. that's the fact that this whole big lie was a self-licking ice cream cone. what i mean by that it self-per pet waits itself. all the people you saw today, what they call team normal, really did set aside or put forward facts that say that this was actually just a grift. it was just a money-making

venture, you know, based on conspiracy theories and hysterical, you know, ideas. >> so you're saying this whole thing was a grift. the trump orbit of, you know, i guess you're talking the jason millers, the rudy giulianis, the, i guess, sidney powells, all the people that you've talked about, you're saying they were all basically in it for the money. >> the most important factor of this investigation -- and it's just based on my background in counterterrorism -- is follow the money. $250 million is the floor. that doesn't count the rnc, the nsrc, the nrcc, the 501 c 3s, any of the campaign, any of the campaign managers, consu consultancies. all of this was a big money operation. all of us have been screaming that for some time. they've really weaponized and monetized ignorance. that's something that's been

very effective for them. $250 million is the floor. i think as the committee releases more information and once they get to the final report, i think it's going to be shocking for most people in the united states. >> george, to that point, you heard the committee lay out the trump campaign raised approximately $250 million advertising false claims of election fraud, solicited requests for an official election defense fund that did not exist. is that legal? do you think this was all just about -- this was just a big grift? >> well, i think it was a big grift. i don't think it was all about a big grift. i think part of it was about donald trump's ego. but, yes, i think there's a serious question as to whether or not there was mail fraud or wire fraud committed in connection with these solicitations, which were based upon lies, the lie that this election was stolen, and based upon the lie that they were actually going to use this money for litigation purposes, to litigate an electoral victory out of the claims of fraud. and they were never intending to do that, and the entity -- apparently the entity they said

it was going to the campaign, it didn't go to the campaign. it didn't go to the election fund. so i mean on multiple levels, i mean there's serious question as to whether or not, you know, this is mail and wire fraud. you know, normally political speech, even if it's false, is protected. but speech that is designed to rip people off is not. and so i think that there's a very good argument that this falls on the criminal side of the line. but it wasn't just about the grift. it was about donald trump wanting to save his ego and wanting to be able to claim that he didn't lose the election. and, you know, that's why, you know, when you see we had barr saying there was never an indication of interest of what the actual facts were. and you had donahue, the assistant attorney general, the deputy assistant acting attorney general said there were so many of these allegations. when you gave him a very direct answer on one of them, he wouldn't fight us. he'd move on to the next.

and all this was about him deciding that if he was going to lose, he was going to claim fraud. and he did it before the election. and so that's -- again, that was part of his, you know, ego. >> yorge, what does it say to that the former president released the 12-page statement basically laying out all the false claims again, clinging to the 2020 election, citing dinesh d'souza's documentary that former attorney general bill barr laughed at in testimony today. is the president nervous about this? >> i guess he is, but he's going to persist in telling the big lie for the rest of his life, even if he goes to the slammer. he's just not ever going to let it go, and that's just his psychology. that's just the way he is. >> congressman riggleman, i want to remind our viewers of, i guess, the december 2020 resignation letter that bill barr wrote to the former

president. he said, quote, i'm proud to have played a part in the successes you delivered for the american people. and just a few months ago when asked if trump should ever be near the oval office again, barr said this to nbc. >> well, i certainly have made it clear i don't think he should be our nominee and i'm going to support somebody else for the nominee. >> but if he is the nominee and your choice is donald trump or whoever is running on the democratic side, would you vote for him? >> because i believe that the greatest threat to the country is the progressive agenda being pushed by the democratic party, it's inconceivable to me that i wouldn't vote for the republican nominee. >> congressman riggleman, when you hear that juxtaposed to barr's testimony that we heard today, i mean what do you make of it? >> i think i like the bill barr the testimony better than the bill barr saying he would still vote for president trump. they're really, really late to this party. it's better late than never.

you know, again, i always use the bar fight auntil ji. even if you're getting beat, if somebody comes in at the end and helps you out, that's a good ing this. i think bill barr did that and allowed the republicans -- and let be honest. the republicans up there were not shrinking violets. i think it's better late than never. but it's really astounding to me that anybody who said the things that bill barr said in testimony would still say he would vote for president trump, i think that's a really issue. i think that's a problem with tribalism in this country. i think it's a problem with the propaganda that you see pumped into republican circles. you talked about 2,000 mules. i think, you know, when you look at something like that, i am a geofencing expert. i do know geolocation. i do know all the technical terms for that, and when you see something like that and you talk about things like that and i know george has talked about this, you know, 2,000 mules was produced by about a dozen asses. they just don't know what they're talking about. i think that's the problem you have. you have a disinformation push.

you have tribalism. when you put this all together, you have things like barr in an interview saying he would still vote for somebody that he thought was bad shit, and that is really amazing to me. >> appreciate it both of you, thank you. coming up next, psychologist, author and niece mary trump on the question that looms so much over today's hearing. the conversation tonight, does her uncle actually believe what he's been spreading, the lies he's been spreading? later, senator chris murphy on the bipartisan gun compromise where he helped broker and where it m may go from here. bipolar depression. it made me feel trapped in a fog.

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we're now in today's testimony the former president's inner circle. joining us, mary trump, former president's niece, a psychologist and author of the reckoning, our nation's trauma and finding a way to heal. mary g to see you. what's your initial response to this 12-page response to the january 6th committee that your

uncle released tonight? i mean, is it typical of him to essentially want to get out in front of what everybody's talking about? >> i think that's part of it. i think he also tips his hand and lets all of us know that he is very much interested in what's happening in these hearings. he cannot stay away from them because they're about him. so that's interesting. i think that document also has stephen miller's fingerprints all over it. it is exactly what one would expect from somebody who's feeling cornered and, as it often the case with donald, needs to convince himself and his enablers that he is absolutely justified in believing that he's the victim. it is absolutely full of delusion, lies, and grievance.

>> you know, we heard former congressman riggleman talking about the big grift and that for a lot of people in the orbit of the former president, a lot of this, he believes, was about the money that they could potentially make in a whole bunch of different ways. do you think it's about that for the former president? >> i think everything is about money for him to one degree or another. and i was actually quite pleased to see the committee going in that direction because the staggering amount of fraud, if, indeed, those allegations are true, is something the american people really need to understand and know about. but, of course, it isn't only about money. it is also about protecting himself from the absolute truth that he lost, and he lost very, very badly. >> when it comes to the former president kind of throwing his own daughter, your cousin

ivanka, under the bus last week, saying she was checked out at the end of his term, this is something that last year you predicted could eventually happen. is there anyone who isn't expendable to him? because until last week, people would probably have said ivanka trump. and what you see from the testimony today is you had, you know, respectable people around who were in the president's orbit, working in the white house, saying to him, you know, there is no "there" there. and he immediately essentially ejects them, stops paying attention to what they're saying, and reaches out and finds, you know, more toadiy-is people. >> and of course there's always somebody more sycophantic than the people he lets go. we knew going into that ivanka was going to have to walk a very, very fine line. she needed to watch out for herself without getting donald too angry. so i don't think her revelations

were that explosive, but she had to come down on the side of what the facts showed, which is that bill barr in this particular instance was right in his assessment that the 2020 election was not stolen. i think what's very important to realize is that, yes, it was rude to say she checked out. but if you think about it, he actually accused his own daughter of perjury. >> mary trump, i appreciate talking to you. thank you. >> thank you. we've got this just in on committee chairman bennie thompson's statement tonight that the committee would not be issuing criminal referrals in their probe. i just asked adam schiff about that. a short time ago committee vice chair tweeted this, quoting now, the january 6th select committee has not issued a conclusion regarding potential criminal referrals. we will announce a decision on that at an appropriate time. coming up, we'll take a look at the other development on capitol hill. major movement on gun safety legislation in the senate. framework for a deal that could survive a filibuster attempt. at least ten republicans say

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senator john cornyn, who's leading republican efforts on that bipartisan senate push for gun safety reform, told cnn the text of a bill could be ready by the end of the week. it comes just a day after a group of democrats, republicans, and one independent announced

the framework for a bill with enough votes to pass the senate even if opponents attempt to filibuster. the agreement includes money for red flag laws to keep weapons out of the hands of those who pose a threat to themselves or others. it also aims to increase access to mental health and suicide prevention programs. senators also say the legislation will address what's called the boyfriend loophole. right now unmarried partners found guilty of violence against someone they're dating can still keep their guns. the agreement would also create a more thorough review process for people between the ages of 18 and 21 who try to buy weapons like an a. >> reporter: -- r-15. it also clarifies as to when a person must register as a federally licensed firearm dealer. and lastly, there will be more money for school security. earlier i spoke with connecticut senator chris murphy, the lead negotiator for the democrats. >> senator, thanks for joining us. you now have this framework that's been agreed upon in principle. what's it going to take to get to that final stage? >> well, we've done the heavy

lifting here. we have ten republicans signed onto this framework, a framework that's going to save lives. these are five important changes in our gun laws, plus billions in mental health funding. my belief is that we're just going to add republicans from here on out. we've got to get this into legislative text, but we're done with the negotiating, and my belief is that by next week, we can have something on the floor that can get more than 60 votes. we're never going to get 100. there's going to be a bunch of senators that will fight this to the end. but i think we can have a really big bipartisan vote in support of a common-sense gun violence bill that is going to prevent a lot of homicides and a lot of suicides across this country. >> senator john cornyn, republican, is also leading negotiations, told manu raju he expects legislative text by the end of the week. do you agree with that? >> that's our hope. it's an aggressive time frame, but we do have a recess coming up in which we go back to our states for july 4th, and i think there's no reason why we can't go

get this done. the urgency really comes from the american public. i was just in connecticut throughout the weekend, and parents and kids, they're really desperate. they're fearful about what's going on in our country, how dangerous our schools and town squares have become, and they are not going to accept inaction as the result. but they also want action now, so my colleagues are moving fast. that's great. but the pressure is coming not internally. the pressure is coming externally from moms and dads and kids who want this congress to step up and do something to make our country safer. >> what do you think the most important measures are that are included in this? >> i really think the bill is the sum of its parts. you know, i don't want to elevate one against the other. obviously the red flag provision gets a lot of attention because this bill is going to help states implement laws that take guns away temporarily from people that are threatening to shoot up a school or threatening to kill themselves. in hartford today, the african american leadership was maybe

most excited about the criminalization of gun trafficking and straw purchasing. that first-ever statute will make it a lot harder for these gun traffickers to move guns into our cities. the domestic violence loophole is going to make sure that domestic abusers don't get guns, not just abusers of spouses but abusers of girlfriends as well. that's a big deal. so cumulatively, this is the most important anti-gun violence bill in 30 years, and so each provision builds upon the other. >> you heard the president say the deal is not everything he wanted though it's better than nothing. i know it's certainly not everything you wanted either. that's what compromise is all about. do you think any of the other measures, raising the age to 21 for getting an assault-type weapon, even a ban on assault-type weapons or high-capacity magazines -- is that ever a realistic -- something that has a realistic chance of passing without huge changes at the ballot box? >> well, listen, you're right

first of all that this is an old-school compromise. republicans got things that they care about. democrats got things that they cared about. we added to the bill to get this done, not stripped it down to only the things that all of us agreed upon. but the answer to your basic question is yes. we will, you know, be able to build on this, and my hope is that republicans who support it find out that the political sky doesn't fall when you support a commonsense gun safety measure. in fact, you get a lot more political support back home. i think the movement will grow because, you know, ten years of inaction at the federal government makes it hard for people to continue to show back up to rallies and write their members of congress. the movement now, i think, will be growing again because they have tasted success. so, yes, i think this is important in and of itself, and if we never passed another gun safety bill, i would say this one is absolutely worthwhile, lifesaving, but i also believe

it can allow us to do other things down the line. >> mitch mcconnell hasn't publicly signed on to the framework. senator cornyn says he thinks all ten republicans who did are, in his words, rock solid even without sign-off from leadership. do you think that's the case as well? >> yeah, i think we've got very good commitments from the ten republicans that are a part of our announcement. senator mcconnell and i have plenty of differences, i do acknowledge the fact that the space he created for senator cornyn to lead these negotiations was very important. his colleagues do, you know, look to the signals he's sending, and he sent a clear one, which was to send john cornyn in to sit down with me, maybe the most vocal advocate of changing our laws in the senate, and find that common ground. >> senator murphy, i really appreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you. still to come tonight, a live report from idaho and the arrest over the weekend of dozens of men with a suspected tie to white nationalist group. police say the men planned to riot as a gay pride event.

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when you need help it's great to be in sync with customer service. a team of reps who can anticipate the next step genesys technology is changing the way customer service teams anticipate what customers need. because happy customers are music to our ears. genesys, we're behind every customer smile. we have new details tonight about the arrest of 31 men with suspected ties to a white nationalist group and who law enforcement officials had said planned to riot at a pride event in northern idaho over the weekend. the police chief there says he and others in his agency are now

receiving death threats. sara sidner is in idaho with the latest. >> reporter: to witnesses, they appeared as a little army, 31 men all dressed in similar outfits, all with their faces covered. police say they were prepared to riot as the city celebrates pride month. >> the information that we had would lead any reasonable officer to assume that there might be criminal activity afoot based not only on the 911 call but the information contained within the call. >> reporter: police say they were stuff nood a moving van, caught with shields, weapons and at least one smoke bomb as they headed toward downtown coeur d'alene. >> i have no doubt in my mind that had that van stopped at the park or much nearer the park, that we still would have ended up in a riot situation. >> reporter: one by one, police unmasked the men. one of the men, police say, is their leader, thomas rousseau. he along with his group, patriot front, came from out of town and brought with them a nasty racist past, one cnn has reported on over the years. >> these were members of the

hate group patriot front. these are not antifa in disguise, nor were they fbi members in disguise. >> reporter: this group didn't come out of nowhere. they're not new. researchers that track hate say patriot front is an offshoot of a group called vanguard america, whose alleged leader, thomas rousseau, attended the white supremacist unite the right rally in charlottesville. the person convicted of this murderous act of hate in charlottesville, the man behind the wheel of that car, had been spotted standing side by side with the racist group, holding one of their shields. though the leadership of vanguard america said he was not a member and condemned his violence, that didn't stop their neo-nazi ideologies or activities according to several groups that track hate in america. they simply splintered and rebranded themselves after the terrible publicity and legal trouble facing many who took part in the deadly charlottesville rally.

>> patriot front sprung off of vanguard america as a new effort, a new brand. so they're constantly trying to reinvent themselves to distance themselves from the very violence that they're routinely promoting. >> reporter: peter simi is an associate professor at chapman university. he's spent decades studying extremist groups, even living with some of them. he says patriot front's favorite targets are immigrants, brown and black people. why would they, as authorities have said, target the lgbtq segment of society? >> it's a very common target for these kind of hate groups, these kind of white supremacist groups tend to be very homophobic, very much seeing this in biblical terms in terms of homosexuality being a sin against god, or in terms of seen as unnatural. >> reporter: this town has been through an invasion of hate-filled men before. the county was home to the

leader of the aryan nations, who had worldwide gatherings here until the town decided to fight back. their fight to remove racist hate from their town resulted in some of the toughest state hate crime laws in the country. >> we're not going back to the days of the aryan nations. >> sara sidner joins us now. is it clear whether this group wanted to cause violence and actually hurt people physically or sow chaos and disruption? they were all loaded into a u-haul with shields, and it doesn't look good. >> reporter: yeah. i mean there were no guns, but there were things that could be used as weapons. police said there was at least one smoke bomb there as well. those aren't generally things you do when you're protesting peacefully. but the police are pretty clear that what they had with them, all dressed in similar outfits, that their plan was to create some sort of chaos. whether or not it was going to be violent or not, that remains to be seen.

but certainly they are being charged now, all 31 of them, with conspiracy to riot. it is a misdemeanor. we did try to reach out. none of them had attorneys on file, and we tried to reach out to the family of the alleged leader, thomas rousseau, and he and his family did not return any of our attempts at getting comment from them. but it certainly has rattled this town. i mean, as we walked around, we went to the hotel where we believe they were standing outside of, and people were upset that their town once again, after fighting for so long to try and show people that this is a wonderful place to live and to be, they were going to have a pride parade, they were doing all sorts of things for pride month, that they are now being in the news again for something that has to do with hatred, something, by the way, most of these men were not even from idaho. only about three of them. the rest of them from all over the country. >> sara sidner, appreciate it. thank you. up next, georgia democratic senator reverend raphael warnock

on the january 6th committee, the big lie, and his race against his republican opponent in the november election. former football star herschel walker. [ chucklining ] ♪ and i hope whatever you've got to do ♪ ♪ is something that... ♪ [ music stops ] [ beeping ] cars built with safety in mind, even for those guys. the volkswagen atlas with standard front assist. ♪ ♪

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more now on the january 6th hearing on capitol hill. the focus was on how those around the former president told him he lost the 2020 election but he refused to listen, turning instead to his attorney rudy giuliani to embrace false claims the election was stolen. and many false claims are still being spread by the former president, including georgia republican senate herschel walker who has talked about countrywide election fraud, told a reporter that everyone knows something happened at the election. raphael warnock joins us tonight. his new book out tomorrow, a memoir of truth, transformation, and the new american story. what a story it is. it's not just a political memoir. it's really a fascinating story of your life. you write this -- i want to read this. you write in the book about the

former president's election lies. the former president continued claims widespread voter fraud are just his way of saying that certain votes can't count. bennie thompson, the chairman of the january 6th select committee, he's drawn a parallel between his work on the committee and his fight for voting rights in the jim crow south. do you see this as important as those fights? >> thank you so much. it's great to be here with you. listen. january 6 tells us something about the struggle that we're engaged in right now. we saw a violent attack on the united states capitol. there were racists and anti-semitic signs trafficked through the capitol. and it was all driven by the big lie that certain people's votes don't count, shouldn't count. and that's the tragedy of january 6, which then came alive

in voter suppression bills that were spread on cross country. january 6th has happened. we don't get to pretend like it didn't. but here's the thing. january 5th is also -- tells us also something about america. i was elected. georgia sent in one fail swoop it's first african american senator and it's first jewish senator to the united states senate. and i sometimes think that somewhere in glour of martin luther king jr. and rabbi abraham were dancing and shouting because they marched together. we've got to decide which america we're going to be january 5th or january 6th. i think my own improbable story as a kid who grew up in public housing, who now sits in the united states senate speaks to the hope and promise of america. and that's what's really at stake. >> when you're out in your district, when you are out in your state and you are campaigning and you meet people who genuinely believe that there

was fraud, that this was a stolen election, when you hear the person you're running against make these claims, how do you engage with somebody? and can you convince somebody, or can you figure out a way to still connect with them? >> well, look, i -- these are very serious times. but i remain hopeful. you know, our democracy goes through these moments when it expands. sometimes it contracts. but even contractions, you know, give birth to the possibility of a new world. so, we keep fighting the good fight. and as a result of my election and our flipping the senate, we were able to pass the bipartisan infrastructure bill. we were able to pass the single largest tax cut for working and american families -- working and middle class families in american history. and now i'm focused on lowering the cost of insulin. all of these things we get to

work on, anderson, because we have a democracy. >> the title of the book is "a way out of no way." oso many people in black communities in america who told there was no way that found a way, that found a way out of no way. what do you say to people who now look at the state of the union and have lost hope that there is a way for americans to come together and to move forward, to find a way out of no way? >> well, the title of the book, "a way out of no way," i didn't create that. it comes out of the black church. it's deep in the culture. if you're at a black church for an hour or less, you're going to hear somebody say god makes a way out of no way. it is a kind of faith born of struggle and oppression. and yet learning how to keep the faith, hoping against hope, and getting up and pushing forward even when you're not exactly sure how to get there.

and so that's the story of many americans. and i think it is the reason why i've been able to reach out and do the work thoat i've tried to do in the united states senate. and i feel like in a real sense, i'm just getting started. every sunday, by the way, i go back to my church. i still preach on the weekends. i don't think of myself as a senator who used to be a pastor. i'm a pastor in the senate. i think right now the country needs moral voices. we have no shortage of transactional politicians who are so focused on the next election that they're not thinking about the next generation. and that's why you get a january 6. when politicians are focused on their problems rather than the people's problems, it becomes very, very difficult to get anything done, which is why for years in my own church, i fought for voting rights. we register voters in our

church. when the people of -- the evacuees of katrina were displaced to atlanta and other places, my church organized something called the freedom caravan. and we took voters back to new orleans so that they could vote. most of them had to go back physically in order to vote. and it's because i think that a vote is a kind of prayer for the world we desire for ourselves and for our children. i think that democracy is the political enactment of a spiritual idea that all of us have within us a spark of the divine, that we matter, we have value so we ought to have a voice in our democracy and of our destiny within it. that's what my life with service has been about, and representing the people of georgia has been the honor of i many life. >> just a political question. there's a lot of question about whether president biden should run for re-election 2024. do you think he should? >> well, here again, i think there will be plenty of pundits

to talk about that. and part of the issue right now is we're so obsessed with the next election. and it makes it very difficult to get something done even when 90% of the american public agrees with it. on common sense gun laws. thank god we're seeing some progress, movement in that direction. but why is it taking so long? politicians focus on short-term political gains. and i think that there's something worse than losing an election. you can lose your soul. you can lose your sense of integrity and why you went in office in the first place. >> well, reading the book, i learned a lot about your mom who just sounds like an amazing, amazing person. >> she is. you know what she said when i got elected. i said, hey, it's senator reverend warnock on the phone. she said, yeah, and i'm still mama. >> thank you so much. i appreciate it. the book "a way out of no way." >> thank you.

>> a memoir of truth, transformation, and the new amamerican story. we'll be right back. more you. so thank you. we hope you like your work. ♪

♪ it wasn't me by shaggy ♪ you're never responsible for unauthorized purchases on your discover card. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com the news continues. let's hand it over to laura coates and "cnn tonight." >> anderson, thank you so much. i'm laura coates and this is "cnn tonight." look, there's a difference between believing something skbanting it to be true. see, donald trump wanted it to be true that he won the 2020 election. and he wanted it to be true that fox news had not called arizona fo