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thanks for watching. i will be back tomorrow night. don lemon start right now. >> see you in an hour here. i have questions for you. >> i can't wait. >> i'll see you then. i wanted to get to this quickly because we have so much we want you to hear. you may not have heard of a lot of it today and we will play it for you. today's hearing, i want to make

this very clear. it was on about democrats taking trump down. okay? you may hear that another places but that is not with this is about. this is about trump's inner circle. the people who are closest to the former president. they were the ones providing all of the evidence here. all of the evidence in the hearings. people in the center circle. critical and methodical testimony at the second public hearing at the house committee investigating the january 6 and direction. testimony from the former attorney general as well as someone with the campaign. he pushed his big life election fraud on the american people. what you play close attention to the former attorney general, bill barr, telling the committee that trump has become detached from reality. >> the claims of fraud were abortion and he was indignant about that. i reiterated that they wasted a whole month on these claims of the dominion voted at machines

and they were idiotic claims and i specifically raised a dominion voting machine, which i found to be among the most disturbing allegations, disturbing in the sense that i saw absolutely zero basis for the allegations but they were made in such a sensational way that they obviously were influencing a lot of people, members of the public, that there was this systemic corruption in the system and their votes didn't count and that these machines, controlled by somebody else, were determining it, which was complete nonsense. it was being right out there and i told them that it was crazy stuff and they were wasting their time on that. it was doing a great disservice to the country and i was somewhat demoralized because i thought, boy, if he really believes the stuff, he has lost contact -- he has become

detached with reality. >> so his testimony was actually riveting and when he talked about, you know, the whole conspiracy theory think about the votes in the hitting votes and bringing in truckloads of votes in suitcases and he laughed at the mules think. riveting testimony and that riveting television. the committee taken americans inside the trump white house on election night where the campaign manager, among others, advised the former president to hold off on declaring victory because too many votes still needed to be counted and the numbers were not in his favor. trump, instead, listen to rudy giuliani. >> there were suggestions by rudy giuliani to go claim victory. >> it was far too early to be making any calls like that.

ballots were still being counted. ballots were still going to be counted for days and it was far too early to be making any proclamation like that. >> did anybody who was a part of the conversation disagree with your message? >> yes. >> who was that? >> the president disagreed with that. i don't recall the particular words. he thought i was wrong. he told me so. you know, that they were going -- that he was going to go in a different direction. >> okay. basically he just didn't listen to anyone with any authority or who was in a friend in his administration. any of his advisors to rational people, he didn't listen to them that witnesses also just think about his condition on election night. watch this. >> was there anyone in the

conversation who, in your observation, had too much to drink? >> mayor giuliani. >> tell me more about that. what was your observation about his potential intoxication during that discussion about what the president should say when he has addressed the nation on election night. >> the mayor was intoxicated but i did not know his level of intoxication when he spoke with the president, for example. >> rudy giuliani's lawyer denies his client was on election night. to be continued. there is more testimony to come. more hearings to come. i have a lot to get to. i want to bring in the chief political correspondent and republican strategists and legal analyst, elliott williams. the attorney general under president obama. good evening to all of you and actually found today, pretty fascinating and pretty

convincing that you.the first that was good. i thought this is actually pretty good. we are hearing from all of these members of team trump and bill barr. is turning out to be a star witness. he was skating in his enunciation of allah trump selection life. all of that. and all of the wild conspiracy theories. >> it was fact-based. he was the attorney general of the united states and he was hearing all of these -- pick the word that you want to use from him. these bs conspiracy theories over and over and over again. from a lot of different corners but especially his boss. the president of the united states. because of that, he talked in great detail about going back and knowing, even knowing the number of precincts in detroit to be able to go back to donald

trump and say, no, what you saw wasn't a truck packing and from god knows where dumping and false votes. this is the way that they count the votes in the city of detroit. that is when example of it the multitude of times that he had it to -- he used the word walk a mile. trying to write down these computer sees. when he went to the then president and said, this is not true, he knew that because he had looked into it and he was absolutely convinced that what the president was doing was wrong and the fact that he said that trump had become detached from reality was among the most chilling of all of the testimony today. >> he said it in his testimony, that there were 530 odd precincts in detroit and he said there is a central counting system that each precinct doesn't count the votes or the ballots individually and they bring them to a central

place and that is what you are saying and still, the programmer president when out and said look at all of the dumping votes and what have you and that is not what has happened here. yet, even with the right information, the information from his advisors like bill barr, he went on to say something that wasn't true. then there was transformer campaign manager describing how he and other divisors told trump in the days that the odds of winning were slim. listen to this. >> what was your view on that point? >> you know, very, very bleak. we told him that the group went over there outlined my belief and chances for success at this point and then we pegged it at five, maybe 10%, based on recounts that were, you know, were automatically initiated or could be initiated based on,

you know, realistically challenges. >> as i said, when i just spoke to denna, what did trump do? he spoke with the election lie. alice, how does all of this to you? >> it looks bad. look, for years we heard people say that donald trump is deranged or detached from reality from democrats. now, today, we are hearing it from numbers of his inner circle . bill knows data and polling and numbers and when he is telling you that things look bleak, things are bleak. jason miller knows that at. when he is saying that the odds are not in trump's favor, that is the case. same with bill barr. when you have people like these people with reputations that are long and understand the numbers, part of team normal. giving him advice, yet he

chooses to go with whiskey tango foxtrot with it giuliani, who was inebriated, and that goes to show that he has attachment from reality. this is a problem for a lot of reasons because these are people that wanted him to win. clearly wanted him to win. don, i was on your program on the night of election night in 2020 saying that he needs to stop discrediting the election and stop saying that this was a bogus election, but he did that that night and continued to do so because he wanted to discredit the election because he did not want to admit. >> you said it would hurt him. >> rudy giuliani has had more than 60 times to produce in the court of law to show that the election was fraudulent and he has come up with nothing. now we are looking back at this and we had free and fair elections and donald trump did

not what, win. >> it's stunning. whiskey tango foxtrot, it took me a minute. i got it. what a minute. oh. elliott, this is from the committee's tape testimony. there was trump white house attorney, eric hirschman. there's jerry kushner saying that he told trump that he went to go along with giuliani and there is a trump campaign are saying that law firms were comfortable with giuliani's claims. here it is. >> what they were proposing, i thought it was nuts. the theory was also completely nuts. a combination of italians and germans in different things that are floating around as to who was involved. she is an affidavit from somebody. said they were the software in and software in the philippines. >> did you ever share your view? did you share your respective about him to the president?

>> i guess -- yes. >> tell me what you said. >> is not the approach i would take if i was you. >> how did he react? how does it react when you should have you with them? >> i have confidence in ready. >> had conversations with all of our counsel who were signed up to assist on election day as they disengaged with the campaign. the general consensus was that law firms were not comfortable making the arguments that rudy giuliani was making publicly. >> okay. so elliott and mr. attorney, how would this play in a court of law? is it effective to have the

person's family, right? and that these legal teams essentially saying that giuliani's team was dangerously wrong? if you have the family of the person that you're trying to make a case against a, yes, he was wrong and i told him and i would have said if i were him and not if i was him. >> meow. >> i was shocked. the guy who knows everything has a grammatical error. >> as fun as it is and entertaining as it is on whether he was intoxicated and all of the above, a lot of these things are distractions. what is relevant here is that a number of lawyers on the campaign, the private sector and the government attorneys in forms of deputy attorney general the united states all provided legal advice to the president saying that we think you are wrong and he still decided to push again. now, why this is important. if you are talking about fraud statutes or a number of

campaigns related statutes, the individual's knowledge of their wrongdoing goes to their criminal intent. yes and no to something is wrong is to be pushing ahead and doing it and what you have here is a long list of legal advice and that you are pushing alive. >> what does this mean legally though? that is what i was thinking. i don't know if it means anything legally but if you have someone in you have been telling them it is a lie and all of the evidence shows is a lie and he still goes out and perpetrate a fraud on the american people, does he bear any legal responsibility? >> he does or could if the advice he is getting is so overwhelming and so credible from various sources that what you are doing is incorrect or wrong or you are misinformed. he is engaging in an act of fraud and it's one thing to

thing, but, a candidate might think he won an election and even if it is based on conspiracy theories, it's not probably going to be a crime if you generally believe they won and is trying to advocate for himself. if he is being told by all of his lawyers and the leaders in government, you are breaking the law or we don't feel comfortable with this, at a certain point, the court or the jury will say, you know what, you knew what you were doing was fraudulent but you still decided to push ahead and this was far more -- there is a lot of entertaining stuff today but there was very impactful, legal advice that the president got they could weigh on a future criminal case. >> it wasn't just his lawyers and the people around him. it was the court saying that there was no evidence. >> 61 times, i think. >> benny thompson told reporters that the committee will not make any criminal referrals to the justice department on trump or anyone else, but not everyone on the committee agrees. liz cheney is directly

contradicting that saying that the generous the committee has not issued a conclusion regarding potential criminal referrals and we will announce a decision on that at an appropriate time. it seems like there is a clear split on what to do here. >> yes, in the formal sense of a criminal referral, which is a big deal from the united states congress in any case, especially when you are talking about the former president. other people, i think -- may be in some ways it is a distinction of difference here, don. what they will argue to a person on the committee is that this entire exercise of the investigation and now these hearings, it is effectively a referral. they are building a case that they hope would be impossible for the justice department not to take up or not to seriously look at. we know that they are and we know that they are going to turn everything over to the justice department, in terms of what they have gathered.

whether it is a formal criminal referral or not. >> an additional point about, what they are going to produces a multi-100 page report documenting all of these findings for the public. whether it is formally a referral, which is a letter from congress to the justice department were a public report, the information is are going to be there. >> we've heard from the mayor that the department of justice is watching this and paying close attention to the evidence and they will let all of the evidence be put on the table and they can decide what they want to do from there. whether or not there isn't a formal presentation of the evidence, they are keeping a close eye on it. >> everybody is saying is this going to change minds? i don't think it matters at this point. let it play out monthly what happens and let's see what the committee comes up with.

thank you. i appreciate it. >> much more coverage, including witnesses who testify today. trump is putting republicans in potential danger. alexa, play our favorite song again. ok. ♪ i only have eyes for you ♪ meet three sisters. the drummer, the dribbler, and the day-dreamer... the dribbler's getting hands-on practice with her chase first banking debit card... the drummer's making savings simple with a tap... ...round of applause. and this dreamer, well, she's still learning how to budget, so mom keeps her alerts on full volume. hey! what? it's true! and that's all thanks to chase first banking. freedom for kids. control for parents. one bank with tools for both, all with no monthly service fee. chase. make more of what's yours. no ink! ugh! i need you to print, i need you. you think you're empty? i'm empty. do you suffer from cartridge conniptions?

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♪ ♪ how's he still playin'? aspercreme arthritis. full prescription-strength. reduces inflammation. don't touch my piano. kick pain in the aspercreme. multiple trump insiders testifying that they told trump his election fraud claims were false but he pushed them anyway. joining me now, two people and testified at today's hearing, republican election lawyer and a former philadelphia city commissioner. i'm so glad to see both of you again. we will start with you. you spent your entire career

representing. do you agree how they describe his election claims? they use the words bogus, crazy, silly, completely nuts. those are direct quotes. >> it is hard to disagree with it. especially sitting here now after they went to court more than 60 times. found 180 different counts. lost everyone but irrelevant procedural case in pennsylvania and that is not being able to make your claim. not having the evidence to say that the elections were fraudulent. yes, i do agree with them. >> how do you think the hearings are going? do you think they are making their case? >> i think they are making an effective case, the question is always, it's exactly who's listening and how it will be

received. in other words, how comprehensive is all of the audience and all of the evidence they are putting together? what will the narrative be like at the end of the day? >> in philadelphia, you shut down trump's claim of voter fraud in pennsylvania and your testimony today. when you think the former president was so pushy when he was sold repeatedly that they were false. >> i think it's really a matter of desperation at that point. it was clear that they knew that they had lost the election but were shifting into a different phase. it obviously wasn't about counting voters votes and failed and efforts to prevent our voters votes from being counted in pennsylvania. it shifted over into something quite different and quite more dangerous and that is what i think ultimately led to january 6. >> same question that i asked been. you think they are making their

case? >> i think it is very compelling. in my former life before i get involved in all this, i got my phd in political history. i tend to look at things through the prism of history and i think that it is so important that this committee is creating a historical record . not for now, not for these people or those people, republicans or democrats, but they are documenting everything that occurred and they are doing so contemporaneously. i don't think that we could possibly comprehend how important this effort will be in the future. >> i couldn't agree with you more. i try to make the same statement in the segment before but you did it much more clearly and distinctly than i did. yes, this is great for the public record and we should let it play on see what happens.

then, during the hearing today, the committee showed how trump was planting the seed of his big lies as early as april 2020 and he kept lying right up to the insurrection and he is still lying today. what is that due to americans faith in the election system? >> it has a real damaging effect. now you have 30% of the country doesn't believe that our elections are valid. it is really tough to disdain a democracy that large of a percentage doesn't believe that their elected officials were really elected. the fact that this did turn out to be in evidence bree and the rhetoric that he is, there can possibly be evidence. it points out just how wrong the president was and how, sort of for his personal goes, the country has really taken a hit and is in a more dangerous spot than it has been in its history. >> i have a second here. you agree. i see you shaking your head. >> yeah, i do. i think that part of what is

pretty scary about this juncture is whether there were people who made threats to election officials across the country or the people who stormed the capital on january 6. i have little doubt that in their minds, deranged as they are by consuming all of the flies, that they love america. that they believe they love america. but they sure don't love democracy. when their candidate loses. and are willing to take it apart. >> ben and al, thank you so much. be well, gentlemen. detached from reality. that is what he testified against donald trump who could be the gop nominee, again, in two years. what happens then? what happens then? john kasich, what happens then? hold on. after the break.

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so donald trump was told time and time again by officials and top aides that his claims of election fraud is nonsense. he is still pushing it until this day. senior commentary, the former republican congressman and governor of ohio. john, good to see you. let's get right into this. i want to ask you a bunch of questions. he described him as detached from reality so with the truck being the leader of the gop, what does that mean for the party? >> the party apparatus, the people who run the state parties, they are all trump

people and they are probably just dismissing all of this and they sang, we need to talk about inflation or whatever. i think over time and, look, we've had two hearings that we have about four more to go. i think we have to wait and see where we are by the end of june and a lot of people are still going to deny that i'm looking to see if people are going to start to break ranks. look. you had the inner circle of trump testifying today but i talked to a lady tonight and she is not really a big trumper but she's like, yeah, i don't know if i believe any of that. i've had other people say that to me. well, i don't know that these tapes and they are only hearing one side and it's really frustrating when you have intelligent people tell you that but maybe over time, we will begin to see the wall begin to crumble, to begin to fall apart. we have to wait and see. >> i know we in our different time politically history

doesn't repeat itself. it's the same thing in watergate. took the american people a long time to come around and even with the hearings were going on, nixon still had huge support and people started to catch on and he lost support and kicked out of office. look at the trump campaign manager. he said that he was on team normal as opposed to giuliana's team that was pushing all of these lies and yet he is now advising liz cheney's apartment, harriet. they have backed election claims . this is hard, right? >> don, is about the craziest thing you have ever heard? he would now be working to try and defeat liz cheney. i mean, you know, people are inconsistent. they seek money and sometimes they seek power and it is bitterly disappointing. you have to have a northstar and some people don't seem to have it and i really don't know

this guy or why he's doing it but it doesn't make a lot of sense. he is supporting somebody who is trying to set the record straight in terms of what donald trump had to do in the interesting thing, not just mentioning the party but in regard to the first question, something is recurred to me. if they keep putting this evidence together, you wonder how much pressure is this going to put on the justice department to take a look at what they do to a person like donald trump in terms of everything that has happened. i think that's probably part of the goal of the committee, to really put pressure on the justice department in terms of where they go when they review this case. >> of trump gets the gop nomination 2024, does everybody have to fall in line with his election lies and even though they know what is nonsense and zero, none of it is true? none. >> don, nobody has the fall in line. we don't live in some

authoritarian regime. you can do whatever you want to do. i think these hearings are really hurting him. they are not destroying him but they are hurting him and i've told you for a long time now that he was going to fight away and i think this is another nail in the political coffin in terms of you being able to be viable. i'm not telling you it's over yet or that he is finished but everything is a chip away at his credibility, his electability, and where he heads into the future and how the party views him. there are a lot of people who are supporting him now who would rather that he would just go away. >> okay, john. we will see. thank you, sir. >> yeah. i know. stocks plunge in today. the president, does he realize what it does to the wallets? he's here. after this, you don't want to miss it.

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a bad day for wall street with stocks plunging. the dow sliding 876 points over

concerns that federal reserve may interest rates of three quarters of a percentage points. something the fed hasn't done since 1994. the rough day for stocks follows more bad news for the economy. the national average price of gas hitting an all-time high of five dollars a gallon. the latest inflation data showing that energy and food prices soaring over the past year. energy up by more than 34%. food by more than 10% despite all of this, the white house claiming that american consumers are well-positioned to face these economic challenges and reiterating the president biden's plans to run for election in 2024. karen, thank you. that was a big buildup on not really great news when it comes to the economy. good evening to you. the economy clearly in a rough

spot. is the president being realistic about how much this is impacting americans and their pocketbooks? >> the president understands how much this is impacting americans and their pocketbooks. this is a president who understands what happens around the kitchen table. he grew up in scranton, pennsylvania, when prices go up just a bit, it really hurts families and he understands that the anxiety that people have currently been having. he has made this the top economic priority as we are talking about inflation as we are talking about the economy. we have to remember where this country was more than a year ago when he walked into office. the economy was not in a great place. schools were closed, businesses were closed and we did have a comprehensive covid strategy and what he ended up doing was me that moment, past the american rescue plan, only democrats pass that plan. he signed it. it was his plan and now we're seeing an economy that is bouncing back. 8 million jobs. a .7 million jobs create d.

unemployment is low and that's why we believe we are in a good position to take on inflation but, yes, we understand that folks are feeling death and we have to remember. we have to remember that we are thinking about gas prices and food. this is coming from pollutants war against ukraine. the moment that putin unmasked fortress on the border of ukraine, we saw from then until now, we have seen a two dollar increase per gallon on gas. this is a big part of it too because we have to understand where this comes from as well. >> i understand that. but forbidden, the war started, i remember when the first bombs dropped. i was in the air with matthew chance reporting life. >> i remember. i remember. >> the economist did have supply chain issues. supply chain issues. last year's stimulus package, which you mentioned, contributed to inflation.

does the biden administration bear some responsibility for this? >> first of all, the american rescue plan has put us in a place where we can actually put us in a place where the american people feel they should we can actually take on inflation. what i mean by that, we have seen growth, as i mentioned, more than 8 million jobs and we are transitioning into a steady and stable growth to discuss that himself. to lay out his plan on how we are going to bring down inflation and that's really important. in order to take this on, we have to have -- been a good historic place, which is where we are right now. >> i want to talk about this bipartisan agreement on gun control. it includes a hence agreement. is also missing a lot of what the administration wanted, including an assault weapons ban

and raising the age to purchase assault weapons are 21. does president biden still see this as a win? >> here's the thing. president biden understands and he knows that this doesn't have everything that he had called for but when he went down recently to meet with the parents and community, to meet with the families of the victims and some of the victims as well, they said, please do something. the president has done everything that he can. from the white house to call in congress to act. this is my step forward, right? we haven't seen anything like this. a bipartisanship agreement on a gun reform in decades in the generation, even. the fact that we have seen those two sites come together and they negotiated and that led to their legislating right now, that is a step forward and that is what negotiation looks like.

the president will continue to fight and to call on the other items that he has put forward as what he believes the banning of assault weapons, the national red flag laws, and all of these things that he believes that will make our country safer and here's the thing, don. what this is about, is about saving lives and he wants congress to write the text, get that pass, and get it to his desk as soon as possible. >> we have a lot more to talk about, including 2024. what's next.

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president biden, and democrats, facing a lot of challenge in the run-up to this year's midterm elections bickett is raising questions about how the party in the white house should look ahead of the 2024 presidential election.

more with my interview from the white house press secretary. >> weirdest coming up on the midterms, but as you know, the president only gets to serve so long before they have to start campaigning again and running again but president biden, i'm sure you have read the "new york times" article talking about the whispers growing louder inside the democratic party, exposing doubt about his plans for a second term. this is what alexandra ocasio- cortez told cnn when asked if she would support biden in 2024 but here it is. >> we will cross that bridge when we get to it, but i think that if the president has a vision, that is something we are certainly all willing to entertain and examine when the time comes. >> that's not a yes. >> i believe the president has been doing a very good job so far, and should he run again, i think we will take a look at it. >> as i understand, you

reiterated that the president does plan to run in 2024, right? >> first of all, the congress amended say the president is doing a good job. so that's good, right? i just want to highlight that, because many people agree with that. >> he is going to run in 2024? >> let me just say, you know, there is something called the hatch act i have to be mindful of. what i can say is that the president has repeatedly said that he plans to run in 2024. i will have to leave it there. >> okay. are you concerned -- is the at ministration worried that there are democrats who are not openly endorsing the president, come 2024, even though you cannot say for sure? >> i really cannot get into that. all i can say is what the president intends to do, what the president plans to do and at the end of the day, our focus is to deliver for the

american people. that is the work we have been doing with the economy, that is the work we have been doing with covid. let's not forget, when he walked in looking at covid, there was no comprehensive plan to get people vaccinated. now, more than 200 million people are getting vaccinated? one thing i want to say is that as we are working on plans to lower inflation, deal with gas prices, you know, you have the other side, you have republicans and what they are doing is, they are putting out a plan, rick scott, senator scott put out a plan on how he wants to raise taxes on people making less than $100,000. >> korean -- >> medicare and social security, things that are so important to communities across the country. >> you are right, those are important policies and they should be discussed in every presidential election, discussed all the time? the concern is, the president, during interviews, where he does not seem to answer questions directly, or at

times, simply, his approval ratings according to the latest gallup poll, 40% of americans approve of biden's job as president. so, how does he come and you, as the spokesperson for the white house, and to assure voters that he is still the best candidate to beat trump. is he at his best right now? >> i think the thing that americans love about president biden, is that he is a straight shooter but he is a straight shooter, and he says it as the way he sees it. he calls it out. that is the thing that makes him genuine, and authentic, and real. people really connect with this president. i see it, myself, when we go into, philadelphia, pennsylvania, i will see it then. we just came back from new mexico, we were in l.a., california. i travel with him all across the country, and i see how

people feel about this president, and how much they appreciate what he has done. i think that matters, as far as the polls are focused, delivering for the american people, making inflation our number one economic policy, there are other issues that the president has to deal with and that is what he will focus on, that is how he will continue. >> there is no concern within the administrator and about the president's polling? >> that is not what we're talking about here. we are focused, genuinely, on how we can get the work done on behalf of the american people. >> does the president of the stamina, physically and mentally do you think to continue on even after 2024? >> you're asking me this question, oh my gosh. is the president of the united states. you know, i cannot even keep up with him. we just got back from new mexico, we just got back from california, that is not a question that we should be even asking. just look at the work that he does.

look at how he is delivering for the american public. look, that article we are talking about is hearsay, salacious, that is not what we care about. we care about how are we going to deliver for the american people? how are we going to make their lives better? that is what the president talks about, that is his focus, and that is what we will continue to focus on. >> korean jean-pierre, i appreciate you coming on, thanks for coming on pics but i'm happy to come back anytime. >> thanks very much. >> bye-bye. up next, trump insiders telling him that he did not win, but he continues the big lie anyway. the big moments from the january 6th hearing today, right after this. so you'll never miss a meeting. and neither will she. meta portal, make working from home work for you.

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bogus, idiotic, crazy?