tv CNN Tonight CNN June 16, 2022 10:00pm-11:00pm PDT
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tonight an update from ukraine. a 20 year veteran of the u.s. marine corps, his family has not heard from him since late april. a photo posted on the television shows two other volunteer americans that are missing. they were captured by russian forces. we cannot verify where this photo was taken. and -- are both from alabama. they were with ukraine forces north of kharkiv.
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they said they wanted to come home safely and share their military skills with other fighters. the news continues. let's go over to laura. >> thank you, anderson. i am laura coates and this is cnn tonight. it seems that everyone told trump that the emperor had no clothes on, even behind closed doors but the vice president counsel, the vice president, they all told him that the plan to have vice president mike pence not certify the election was an american. in the words of the prosecutor, illegal. even the top prosecutor, attorney general bill barr could not support the play to stay in office. tonight we have two former attorneys general here. both are going to give us their take on whether the emperors wardrobe might be treated for prison guard.
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it is being watched very closely and we are wondering what his predecessors think and what might they have done differently. day three has had quite a theme. it is called pressure. persistent, relentless, unyielding pressure. all targeting vice president mike pence. the browbeating began behind the scene someone that did not work, the bully pulpit was the new soapbox. and his failure to succumb to it put it him in danger. the staff was so concerned that trump was putting the life of his boss that risk that he alerted the secret service on the eve of january 6. >> i wanted to make sure that the vice president was aware that, as this became more public, that the president would lash out in some way.
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>> we were shown some never before seen photos of vice president mike pence at the capital that day. they were putting rioters were putting up at gallows and calling for his head. we all remember how close the rioters got and they would have gotten to the door if not for the heroic actions of a capital police man. today, we learned that the mob was just 40 feet away from the vice president of the united states. you ask yourself, how worried was president donald trump? not enough to lift a finger and even check on him. not even once. what is worse, trump was warned in advance that violence was not a hypothetical and that his words could actually lead to violence. so, while pence waited for word from trump, he was tweeting to the world and lashing out
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against pence in real time. >> vice president mike pence did not have the courage to do what should've been done to protect the country in the constitution. giving the states to certify incorrect facts. >> we also know that there was a phone call on the morning of january 6 between president donald trump and vice president mike pence. we do not know what the details of that conversation were. we were all wondering until now. apparently, ivanka trump heard it and she called it heated. someone else said that she also overheard the man who once bragged about grabbing women by their genitalia. he was now calling his own vice president the p word. we have a lot more on that ahead. they say that ignorance may be bliss but it seems that trump
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cannot reasonably claim that he did not know that what he was proposing was, shall we say, problematic. we heard testimony that he was warned that the plan to overturn the election was illegal. not by just lehman but one of his own lawyers who helped him cook up the scheme. that said, let's try it anyway. because what could possibly go wrong? >> did john eastman ever admit, as far as you know, in front of the president, that his proposal was --? >> i believe he did, on the fourth. >> that is january 4. the day before the insurrection. of the trump lawyer, eastman, has been under quite the
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microscope today. as for that memo that we all know about and he knew that the plan but he himself was putting forward was illegal. sure to have 89-0 loss in the supreme court. let alone, undemocratic. listen to what another trump lawyer said when he heard about the scheme. >> i said you are going to turn around and tell 78 million people in this country that, this is how you were going to invalidate their votes? you will cause riots in the streets. and he said, words to the effect of, there has been violence in the history of our country to protect the democracy of the republic. >> does he mean civil war? or something different?
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don't hold your breath that we will hear from him during these hearings because he did plead the fifth about 100 times when the january 6 committee asked him to speak. he may not have answered all of their questions but he was prepared to make a pretty big ask of president donald trump. apparently he released an email to another trump lawyer, rudy giuliani that says, "i have decided that i should be on the party list if that is still in the works. why would he think that he should be on that list? we just don't know. but now that more is coming out, will the doj act on these revelations? and how will the committee recommend things to the rest of congress. with me tonight, al franken. abbie cornish, and alyssa farrah griffin.
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you have all sat through my sarcasm but i do want to hear you your thoughts today. when you heard about the pressure campaign against and for vice president mike pence, it was not like it was a one time or a one off. it was relentless all the way to january 5 and six. what do you think? >> i think the 40 feet that the rioters got within the range of the vice president. this mob would have killed him if they were able to and knowing what danger the former vice president was in, trump did not care and he even poured gasoline on the fire as my former colleagues said. the committee broke down the pressure campaign and they were smart to have conservative attorneys and a conservative judge walk through this undemocratic effort that we had seen by people like eastman and the other advisors around trump.
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this really helped showed just how far they were willing to go to stay in power. it is just devastating and undemocratic. >> so i can't help but wonder, did that translate the same way? i'm not saying it was not compelling or the most riveting as a trial attorney i think about how it is coming cross to the jury but, how methodical and persistent this all was. were you surprised that it was that persisted for this vice president? >> i just felt sad during this hearing. i thought it was prophetic. it confirmed pretty much everything but i thought about trump and that is, that he is sick. he is a sick person. it is tragic that he was president. he continues to present a clear and present danger to the american people and his
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supporters. and, it is very clear from these three hearings and we will have four more, that there is a widespread conspiracy to overturn the selection. and every moment was just stunning and really just said. >> i thought it was interesting to think about how the word euro hero was used a lot. i am a little conservative in how i use the word. i tried to give it to those that are truly here like and not just doing the job that they should be doing. what do you make of the idea of vice president mike pence being heralded in called out more than once as basically a hero for saying, here is what the constitution says, i cannot do it. this is what is happening now. >> i think it is a key part of
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the hearing to show how consistently the pressure was put on him to go against the law, essentially, in not ceding certain electors. this was a multipoint campaign and vice president mike pence was at the center. there is no way to talk about it without acknowledging the fact that he stood in the way of this. i think, i am sort of curious, what is the text chain? to hear all of these people around vice president mike pence, his aides talk about the fear that they felt and the concern that they felt. but, was it truly a shock? >> i resigned from the white house december 2020 but i talked with people there. i know the senator, i do think that vice president mike pence is a hero because, i want to take a minute to think about this.
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had he not certified, we would have been not just in a constitutional crisis but i would argue that the republic would be in shambles. we would have a 2-3 week period before joe biden was sworn in. we have a lame-duck donald trump singing to power and you would have unrest in the streets. he would probably lean on the department of defense and i would expect you would have officers like chairman millie define orders to use force and you would have loyalists that trump installed try to use the military. this is a horrifying scenario. >> but didn't the heroes and come through the transparency? >> this is why it was the obvious thing he had to do. if he was courageous, he would've testified today today. and if he was courageous he would've spoken out about this before. and, why didn't mike sure say anything. why didn't any of these people
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that testified today say anything? there are people that are dead because they did not. >> i was the first senior official to speak out on january 6 and said trump did this. i don't know why more people didn't. this is an indictment of my own party. i would think that any other republican in the maga orbit would have done that. thank god it was vice president mike pence. >> i am not one for the black and white. this is an ugly situation in an ugly piece of the process for the peaceful transfer of power has proven to be very vulnerable and potentially easily manipulated. and, i do not want to scenario where we need to have a hero do what needs to be done to carry
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out the tradition of our democracy. we already know what it looks like in other countries that have cyclical political violence. the purpose of the hearings, in greater context, for people to consider is, what will it take for this to not happen again. not just the mob violence but to safeguard and certify a result in an effective way that cannot be manipulated in this manner. when you watch all of the lawyers go i said this and i said that, i don't know. >> is not how you really think lawyers talk? >> we want to hundred 40 years without this happening. you don't do this. al gore testified for this long and was asked about this and he said, if you are putting your personal ambition against democracy, it is not really a
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hard choice. >> there is the statement that, our republic if you could keep it. that is just the lawyer in me talking. everyone stick around. we have a lot more to go through with you all. up next, two former u.s. attorneys general joined me to look at the most important legal takeaways today and that includes john eastman, a trump attorney, trying for a pardon in the days after the insurrection. when cnn returns. meet three sisters. the drummer,
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i am a triathlete. i've always been into health, and wellness, and fitness... i tried everything with diet and exercise, and nothing worked. there was just kinda this stubborn area on my stomach. but coolsculpting worked for me! coolsculpting targets, freezes and eliminates treated fat for good. no needles, no incisions. discuss coolsculpting with your provider. some common side effects include temporary numbness, discomfort and swelling. you've come this far... coolsculpting takes you further. visit coolsculpting.com those famous watergate questions? what the print did the president know? and when did he know it? in this case, a lot of people knew the plan to reject electoral votes was known well in advance. we know that mike pence ask for his counsel to investigate his
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role a month before january 6 happened. john eastman admitted that his plan did not really have any legal weight. and pence told trump he did not have the power. the vp staff told eastman again, the plans were illegal. then eastman admitted the plan would lose at the supreme court. >> we had an extended discussion, an hour and a half or two hours on january 5. when i pressed him on the point, i said, john, if the vice president did what you are asking him to do, we would lose 9-0 in the supreme court and he initially started, i think you would only lose 7-2 and after some further discussion, he acknowledged, you are right. we would lose 9-0. and by the way, there are three trump appointees on that
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court. despite that, trump still had that heated call with mike pence on january 6. trump and eastman both said that pence could overturn the election. even after the attack on the capital, eastman sent another email asking for what he admits would have been an illegal act. the paper trail is pretty incredible on this. so, the next day eastman was advised to get a federal attorney and then he was asking rudy giuliani about the pardon list. possible criminal charges does not sit in congress with the department of justice and the attorney generals. let's talk talk about it with two former attorneys general. welcome. i am so glad that you are both here. i have been eager to pick your brains after these particular hearings. i want to begin with you
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general. as you have been watching and hearing about these hearings, does it strike you that there is a criminality that could be explored at the justice department? >> criminality, humane, by -- >> i mean, by trump. or eastman. >> something can be explored but, as you know, is a former trial lawyer, there's a big difference between what can be explored and what case can be brought. trump if he is famous for anything it is about not hearing things that he doesn't want to hear. that withstanding he was told by his then attorney general bill barr and by vice president pence and others, that vice president pence did not have the authority to do anything .
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he chose to believe a contrary story being told by other people. and that raises some question about his role. in addition, the justice department itself is prosecuting people now, members of the proud boys and to others, for committing these acts on their own. they don't make the president part of it so there is kind of a tension between the theory that the justice department is explaining and the theory that it might pursue against trump assuming they decide to pursue him for criminal charges. >> you are nodding general gonzales. there is expiration and the idea of trying to meet burden of proof if you are to bring criminal charges. something that has been floated around is obstruction and superseding the electoral college count.
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there are elements that need to be proven. so far we have a lot of testimony that demonstrates, at least in the beginning, that trump does not have a good faith reason that he could believe anything he wants to believe when the truth seems to be out there that this plan could not work. >> well, general michael mukasey is right. it is one thing to receive information through this process. it is another to meet the burden of proof in a criminal trial where trump will have the opportunity to cross-examine witnesses and present their own proof and then tried to convince a jury of innocence. so, no question, the information that went through this committee is very disturbing. is certainly with respect to how the republic is seeing this. when we talk about criminal prosecution, that is a different story. and of course, the hearings are
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not over yet. some would argue that a referral is really immaterial. hopefully they will receive all of the information that is assembled and compiled by the commission and then, after consulting with his senior team, he will make a determination as to whether or not to move forward. even if the decision is close, he may decide not to do so. why? because in the history of this country, i don't believe a former president has ever been subject to a trial. first, the attention of the nation will gravitate and be focused on this trial for months. and one might really wonder if it is worth it. you could make the argument that president trump has already been harmed or he has already lost. >> general, excuse me, you what
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you articulated set or the equivalent of him being above the law. the idea that he was punished enough by losing the election and that you can't be called the leader of the free world. is that enough? >> no. let me complete my thought. there is a balance here. the other consideration and maybe even more important is accountability. someone should be held responsible and others of the highest level should be responsible for what happened here. at the end of the day this is a tough decision for the attorney general. right now i agree with the general mukasey . but trump may be prosecuted for what happened on january 6. i think they will make a good effort and make a good examination as to whether or not that would be successful. >> general mukasey, i'm curious
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as to what you make of the fact that the former attorney general bill barr has played such an essential role in testimony. you have both been behind closed doors as presidential advisors and members of the cabinet are privy to a great deal of sensitive information. it could be that ag garland has seen that information. what do you think general mukasey about the notion of testimony to date by bill barr. what was your reaction to that testimony that you heard? >> that testimony, actually, it was known before it was disclosed in the hearings. that was in his book. he talked about it before that. that seen on december 1 where he , as you point out, describe what the president was pushing. said he found no evidence to support them.
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and offered to resign. the president slammed his hand down and said accepted and then bill barr walked out of the loop the room and had to be chased down. he went back to the justice department and they did not speak again until afterward but, he testified, exactly the way it happened. he testified to what he did and what he did was his job. what mike pence did was his job. and, one of your colleagues said before that we shouldn't really need heroes. the fact is that there is no rule that applies itself. there is always somebody that has to apply the rule ended here to the role. the fact that we had people applying the rules and adhering to the rules, if you want to call them heroes, call them heroes. the fact is that the system, at that point, functioned. we had something similar to this
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in our relatively recent history when richard nixon resigned and was pardoned by gerald ford. ford was criticized for it at the time but the reason he did it is he did not want the country to go through the english and the turmoil in the disorder of trying a former president. this situation is close to that. >> i hear both of you. stick around. we will come back and expand on this. the nation deeds some did see some turmoil on january 6. there were some text messages and phone calls between trump and pence before the riots and it was overheard by key people. hear that story yourself when cnn returns.
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we have new insight tonight on a heated phone call between former president trump and his then vice president. it was overheard by people including ivanka, about what they heard, on the morning january 6 and the hours in the hours before the capital attack. >> when i entered the office the second time he was on the telephone with, who i later found out to be was the vice
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president. >> could you hear the vice president or only the president. >> only the president. at some point the conversation became heated. >> the conversation was heated. >> i remember hearing the word wimp. he called him a wimp. wimp is the word i remember. >> something about you are tough enough to make the call. >> it was a different way than i had heard him talk with the vice president before. >> were any details shared with you about what happened in the oval office that morning? >> that her dad had just had an upsetting conversation with the vice president. >> so, the wording is wrong? i made the decision for five years ago. >> the word that she relates here, that the president called the vice president, i apologize
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for being impolite but to remember what she said? her father called? >> the p word. >> after that call, trump went on to rally his supporters in washington, d.c. do you remember this part? >> if mike pence does the right thing, we won the election. but mike pence has to come through for us. and if he does not, that will be a sad day for our country. >> the january 6 panel says the investigation into early drafts of the january 6 speech included, actually no mention of pence and tran purposely revised it to criticizes vice president . upon learning about the violent mob inside the capital, trump told supporters this. " mike pence did not have the courage to do what needed to be done." and they took no. >> pence voted against trump.
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that is how this started. >> yes. >> let's march on the capital. >> let's free the united states of america. pence betrayed the united states of america. >> pence betrayed us and everybody knew he was going to. and the president mentioned it like five times when he talked. >> like five times when he talked. there were a lot more conversations than just five that day. a source told cnn that trump and pence have not spoken to each other in over a year. we will get into this relationship. now we have al and melissa here to discuss this. and, how important could jimmy thomas be to the committee? that is up next. that's it. no sales speak. no wasted time.
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pence. listen to what a white house aide told the select committee about that moment. >> it was clear that it was escalating quickly. so, that mike pence tweet was sent out and i remember a saying that was the last thing that needed to be tweeted at that moment. the situation was already bad and i felt like he was pouring gasoline on the fire by tweeting that. >> back with me now is al franken and abbie cornish. i want to hear what you have to say about sometimes the doj does not prosecute cases because it is not in the interest of the nation are contrary to public interest. you have a strong reaction to that. >> yes. the only thing worse than prosecuting him is not prosecuting him.
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he has clearly committed crimes. it is so evident. watching this yesterday was just pathetic and tragic. he knew he lost. and, his only defense i guess, is insanity but i don't think that washes. i think he is just a malignant narcissist and an awful human being. clearly, he knew he lost and he said, before the election, if i win it was a fair election and if i lose it was fixed. what else do you need to hear? >> and this is what they outlined in the first two days. the idea of the set up and leading up to this moment. and now, you can talk about this more but i am curious about your position on it, if they are talking about what the motive was and his ability and power and understanding to potentially incite violence and that if they are showing is
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people who heard those words and acted on them, clearly, lawmakers are trying to lay something out as easily as possible but it does not necessarily mean there will be charges. correct me if i am wrong but they are doing it in a certain order to give people a sense of wrongdoing. illegality. >> and listen to what congressman aguilar had to say about this. we are talking about criminality and the element and how it can be proven. when someone starts fishing for a pardon, we call that a red flag. >> in fact, just a few days later, rudy giuliani requested to be added to a list of potential presidential pardon recipients. he he said he decided he should be on the pardon list if that was still in the works. >> the rest of that line,
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actually is, i know it will look bad. something to that effect. because there will be so many lies being told. this is such a tiktok ready hearing set up. so much has been made of them using teleprompters or of the production value of the tv producer getting involved. it is not so much about tv. it is shareable. a judge eluded today, he is not a fast speaker but when you see him on your instagram and your snap or whatever, you were going to get the point. the committee has created a scenario in which this is a very shareable kind of tiktok era type hearing rather than a watergate type thing. >> i think the committee is pursuing two trucks. i have sat down with the committee voluntarily and i want to know is there a
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potential criminal referral or wrongdoing. the other is the battlefield of the voters. there is the reflection that this was a giant grist by the former president. it is a twofold track. >> both are valuable. i think there is a danger in setting the bar so high that it has to be prosecution or nothing. because, this is an ongoing situation. there are more than 100 candidates out there right now who election denial was him or trump election lies are part of their campaign. >> that is from right wing disinformation lies that been going on for a long time. >> there was that moment that we heard from greg jacobs were was truly an american and you heard general mukasey say, the system worked today.
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>> and there is almost no idea more un-american than the notion that somebody would not choose the president and that the vice president did not have such authority. >> this is why you have to prosecute him. there is nothing more un- american. >> here is my thought. the problem is, when you look at, and just thinking about how the electorate has talked about this, if the singular focus is on the prosecution of trump, you risk the alienation of realizing the legislative purpose. i'm not saying it can't be a possibility but this is a committee that has to think about this. i will ask the attorneys general about that again. audie cornish, alyssa farah griffin and al franken, let's leave that question in the wind. so, when we come back, we will have two former attorneys
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the january 6th committee is quite steadfast to convey this is a continued threat to our democracy. i wonder if that's landing with people, though. i'm back with michael mukasey and alberto gonzales. i would like you to talk about big picture here. we're seeing division. we're also seeing some distrust in our institutions. we're looking at all that is coming out right now, and the way this hearing is being conducted, you say, the testimony is working by virtue that there was somebody to hold the line. i would love to hear what your thoughts are. >> absolutely. i think mike hit it right on. i would say mike pence was brave. he was courageous not to leave the capitol. honestly, what he did, beyond that, he did his job.
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he took an oath of office to follow the constitution. and that's what he did. that's what the senior leadership did. listening to mr. franken, i think he would throw away donald trump and throw away the key. that's not going to happen. we're going to follow the constitution and do the right thing. >> are you concerned of the singular focus on donald trump, in terms of the committee's focus? >> i am. i think there's larger issues here. i agree with general gonzales. what this fantasy of putting donald trump in an orange jump suit and dungeon and throwing
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away the key sisn't going to happen. there's some mistakes that would prevent or make it more difficult for a situation like this to develop because access to the ballot is a matter of state law. that has to be fought out in each individual state. and how that result gets handled when the ballots are sent to congress, may need to be tweaked in a relatively small way. but there's bipartisan support for the notion. for example, to be made specific that the vice president has no authority. you ought to clarify what we do if there's competing electors submitted by states. that can be done. but the mellow drama doesn't really tell the whole story. >> absent those changes and i'm
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talking to two of the former top law enforcement officials in the country, who know what it must take and need to take to enforce the law, absent the changes, are there other areas, in terms of what you're seeing, that it's making the job of prosecutors to evaluate the cases that much harder? are there areas you think should be fortified or loopholes closed? >> honestly, i don't know how to answer that question. i would have to think about that. i think the department of justice has the tools necessary. they have a lot more authority to find out what happened here, in this congressional committee. they're going to take the information they gathered and get the information from the january 6th committee and make a decision. i believe they probably have the appropriate tools to
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successfully investigate and prosecute where necessary. i do agree with general mccasey. there's things we can do to strengthen the act. >> i will give you the final word in terms of thinking long-term, what you think the impact the hearings will have on our nation. >> well, i'm hoping they will have a good impact. for all of the flaws, it's a civics lesson on both sides. and i'm hope ining that people n from it. and there's no such thing as a set of rules that applies itself. it takes people to apply it. when you have people with a spine, and we have those in the justice department that do it on a daily basis, not on the limelight but in day-to-day situations, i agree that's the takeaway we really need. >> very important word. thank you for joining tonight. it was important to hear from
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you both to get your perspective on the really important issues. thank you so much to both of you. we'll be right back. you try crazy things... ...because you're crazy... ...and you like it. you get bigger... ...badder... ...faster. ♪ you can never have too much of a good thing... and power is a very good thing. ♪ open talenti and raise the jar. to gelato made from scratch. raise the jar to all five layers. raise the jar to the best gelato... you've ever tasted. talenti. raise the jar.
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where fungal infections are common or if you're prone to infections, have cuts or sores, have hepatitis b, have been treated for heart failure or if you have persistent fever, bruising, bleeding, or paleness. don't start enbrel if you have an infection like the flu. when opportunities come your way, be ready to say i'm in for what's next. ask your doctor about enbrel. ["only wanna be with you" by hootie & the blowfish] discover is accepted at 99% of places in the u.s. ["only wanna be with you" by hootie & the blowfish]
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thanks for watching, everyone. i'll be back tomorrow night. "don lemon tonight" starts right now. >> we'll see you tomorrow night. great job tonight. thanks very much. this is "don lemon tonight." devastating testimony from the january 6th hearing on donald trump's relentless campaign to pressure the former vice president mike pence to overturn the 2020 election. and it all came from trump's inner circle. white house staffers and attorneys and aides to pence, as well. saying trump was warned repeatedly that pence has no authority to toss out the results. and a scream to do so hatched by john eastman was bonus and unconstitutional. he badgered pence just hours before the deadly insurrection. listen to this
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