know, we just learned in the last few minutes. they are setting up a 7:30 vote to kind of start this process. it's a procedural vote but kicks it all off. >> very significant development indeed, thank you very much, jessica dean on capitol hill and to our viewers, thank you very much for watching. i'm wolf blitzer in "the situation room," erin burnett, "outfront" starts right now. "outfront" next, republican officials one by one taking down trump's election lies, testifying about a widespread fake elector scheme and the death threats endured just because they told the truth, plus new details about trump tapes now in the hands of the january 6th committee, interviews with trump himself, along with children and mike pence. what were they saying in the days just before and after the insurrection? and disturbing developments in the uvalde shooting investigation. officers wasting precious time looking for a classroom key when the door wasn't even locked. let's go "outfront."

and good evening, i'm erin burnett. "outfront" tonight, we've got a lot of theories, just don't have the evidence. that's the stunning admission from rudy giuliani about the baseless claims of fraud in the 2020 election. now giuliani, you know, you remember him, right? you know, the stuff coming down his face. he was the center piece of a lot of this, one of the loudest voices in trump's ear, one of the biggest mega-phonies out there , mega-phones out there. giuliani knew the conspiracy theories were not true. >> at some point, one of them made a comment that they didn't have evidence but had a lot of theories. that was mr. giuliani. what exactly did he say, how did that come up? >> my recollection, he said we got lots of theories, we just don't have the evidence. >> okay, not having the evidence of any of this stuff did not stop the relentless pressure campaign to overturn the

election. the scheme spanned several states and trump's attempts to draw in republican officials from all levels of government are on display now in these hearings. here's the chair woman of the republican national committee talking about what trump said to her. >> he turned the call over to mr. eastman who then proceeded to talk about the importance of the rnc helping the campaign gather these contingent electors in case any of the legal challenges that were on going changed the result of any of the dates. >> did you also receive a call from u.s. representative andy biggs of arizona on the morning of january 6th? >> i did. >> and what did mr. biggs ask you to do? >> he asked if i would sign on both to a letter that had been sent from my state and/or that i would support the

decertification of the electors and i said i would not. >> a staffer for wisconsin senator ron johnson texted a staffer for pence minutes before the election, this statement, to hand deliver to the vice-president the fake elector's votes from michigan and wisconsin. >> senator ron johnson's office denies being involved in that scheme, but again and again and again trump and allies pushed these theories that the election was stolen even though they knew there was no evidence for it and tried to use fake electors to overturn the electors to certify the slay of electors to say trump was the winner and therefore to have him, you know, get reelected. these re-election lies turned extremely dangerous. shay moss, former election worker in fulton county, georgia, and her mother testified today about the threats they received because of the accusations that they engaged in voter fraud. >> a lot of threats.

wishing death upon me. telling me that, you know, i'll be in jail with my mother and saying things like be glad it's 2020 and not 1920. >> do you know how it feels to have the president of the united states targeting you? the president of the united states is supposed to represent every american, not to target one. but he targeted me, lady ruby. a small business owner, a mother, proud american citizen who was standing up to help fulton county run an election in the middle of the pandemic. >> pamela brown is "outfront" now live on capitol hill to begin our coverage of this crucial hearing today and pamela, once again, the

committee used people who worked on trump's campaign. it was their words that were so damning against him. >> that's right. in fact, the committee showed clips, video clips of closed door testimony from the two top trump campaign lawyers who said after they started losing case after case involving the election, felt the fake elector scheme was inappropriate, making clear it was trump and other lawyers like rudy giuliani and jenna ellis pushing that scheme against, that fake elector scheme, against state officials including republicans who refused to bow to the pressure. you're asking me to do something against my oath and i will not break my oath. >> reporter: rusty bowers, republican house speaker in arizona, offering powerful testimony about the pressure he faced from former president trump and his legal team. to decertify arizona's legitimate election results showing joe biden as the winner. >> he said just do it and let the courts sort it out and i

said you're asking me to do something that's never been done in history, the history of the united states. no, sir. he said, well, that's my suggestion would be just do it and let the courts figure it all out. >> reporter: that was also telling the committee, trump attorney rudy giuliani acknowledged they didn't have any proof of fraud. bowers even disputing the claim trump made about him shortly before the hearing. >> anyone, anytime, heard i said the election was rigged would not be true. >> reporter: the committee demonstrating how state officials remain insstead fast the wake of calls. >> this is rudy giuliani and judy ellis, we're calling because we'd like to discuss, obviously, the election. >> hi, speaker, this is jenna ellis here with mayor giuliani. >> reporter: the committee revealing how trump aligned members of congress like arizona

biggs to urge out arizona electors and inspiring many supporters around the country. >> the punishment for treason is death. >> reporter: some supporters even threatening election workers. >> we started to hear the noises outside my home, and that's, my stomach sunk. and i thought, it's me. that was the scariest moment, just not knowing what was going to happen. >> i don't go to the grocery store at all. i haven't been anywhere, it's affect my life in a major way, every way. >> reporter: the committee used trump's own words to make its case, playing audio of an hour long phone call he made to georgia secretary of state, brad raffensperger. >> all i want to do is this. i just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we

have. >> raffensperger, who is republican, insisted georgia's election result were accurate. >> every single allegation, we made sure our numbers were accurate. >> reporter: trump's top two officials in the justice department also testifying. >> we didn't see any evidence of fraud in the fulton county episode. >> the major allegations are not supported by the evidence developed. >> reporter: state officials already investigating trump's pressure campaign in georgia and that call, specifically, for any criminal wrongdoing. >> if there's ever a crime and it's on going, we're going to look at everything. >> reporter: and today, vice chair liz cheney put public pressure on form were white house counsel under trump, to testify publicly and said the american people deserve to hear from him personally, but i've been speaking to sources close to pat and i'm told he's resisted the invitations to

testify publicly because he felt he's already been cooperating with the committee, sat down for closed door interview with the committee and one of the sources says he has institutional and privilege concerns but we heard congresswoman cheney say today the committee is still working on it so we shall see. >> thank you so much, pamela, and we're joined by committee member and put that question to congressman gloria in just a few minutes, now, though, eli honig "outfront," with attorney district of new york, along with former senior political analyst, axelrod former adviser to obama, all join me. so today showed the breadth of trump's involvement and the direct push for the fake elector slates and, you know, giuliani saying so what, here's the theory, forget the evidence. we'll deal with that later. what was your big take-away to today? >> it's all a shell game, i think we heard that from two witnesses today, two elected

government officials directly in the mouths of two leading advisers to trump, rudy giuliani and john eastman, the quote you opened the show with, i don't have facts, but i have theories. that is what this whole thing is about and i think what this committee is doing at bottom is just to establish truth. the whole strategy is make something up, throw it out in the ether, hope somebody repeats it and it gets a life of its own and i think we need to see witnesses like this, brave witnesses who came forward today and tell us the truth. >> so the truth, we saw it again and again today, john. one thing that stood out to me, though, is gabe sterling who gave that empassioned, you know, two cameras saying stop doing this mr. president, there's going to be violence. right? it was unfortunately the most pr prescient statement in all of this, saying how hard it was to convincing even smart, informed people that all of this was a lie and put it in a poignant way. here it is. >> often times, i felt our information was getting outl, bt

there was a retiscence of people who needed to believe it because the president of the united states, who many looked up to and respected was telling him it wasn't true. the problem you have is you're getting to peoples' hearts. i remember there's one specific, an attorney, that we know, that we showed walking through this wasn't true, okay, i get that, okay, this wasn't true, i get that, five or six things but at the end just goes, i know in my heart they cheated. so once you get past the heart, the facts don't matter as much. >> this was a powerful statement. >> yeah. >> and it's still that line that they're hitting now. >> it shows in a hyper partsonship is a hell of a drug and people have been drugged by the tribal identities how it's reinforced through social media, that even trial lawyers, people who should know better, were so invested in the lie echoed from the white house that they

refused to confront the truth and that is the hardest part of all of this. that's the disinformation we fight everyday but you see, from all the testimony, particularly from republicans over the course of these hearings, there's not two sides of the story. this was a lie, pushed by the president, and his lawyers and his enablers and it duped a lot of his supporters at the expense of his democracy. >> and the lie had so many layers, congressmwoman, there ws a moment i thought congressman schiff would play trump on the phone call with secretary of state brad raffensperger with allegation and brad raffensperger sitting today would go through factually why it was completely made up. one of those moments, trump alleging five thousand dead people voted, then more than 10,000, and secretary raffensperger says today we checked and it was two. by the way, i update everybody, we kept checking and guess what, it ended up that there were four. not 10,315. these are the facts. do they change anyone's minds?

>> i have watched the hearings and i have found just more and more evidence that trump's tre attempt to overturn the result in some states, there weren't isolated incidents. it was wide-spread, widespread. and to get back to the comments that some people, they just continue to stay baked in. it's because at some point, they have to come to the realization that they were duped and that's difficult for them to get through and to get past, but ultimately, i do think, thank goodness we had some brave republicans. mike pence, we can't take away what he did. we can't diminish what he did. his commitment to the rule of law prevailed. and, it kept our republic from descending into chaos. so i have some hope for people, because there are some people that were brave, that kept this,

kept our republic from d dissension. >> cnn learned today, trump still defending that hour-long call with secretary of state brad raffensperger, where the bottom line was after trump went through the dead people and felons and people under 18 and all those things that the facts, you know, raffensperger laid out the facts, they don't add up in any way, shape or form but trump is still defending it, that call. even privately, calling it a perfect call. we remember the other perfect call that he kept referring to. do you, do you really think he believes it at this point, david? >> well, you know, i don't have the requisite degrees to tell you what goes on inside of donald trump's head, but i will tell you this. he is under grand jury investigation in georgia as we speak because of that phonecall and related activities. so i don't know what he's saying privately, but you can, you know, publicly, i think he is stuck with a position that he has, but this has been revealing about trump in so many other

ways, erin, and i think this is the most important point. he was told and told and told that this was all not true, that it was a lie. he was told by his lawyers. >> yeah. >> that this was probably illegal, and yet he pursued because he did does not believe in rules and laws and norms and institutions and that is the greatest concern and he used the ginning up of the mob as a cudgel to intimidate public officials into doing what they knew was not right or legal and not keeping with their oaths and as mia said, thank god there were people who were willing to stand up. you think brad raffensperger, if there was a chance donald trump had won that election, would not wanted, have wanted him to win the election? you think rusty bowers would not have wanted to -- of course not, so their character came through and that was important for the

country, but so was trumps. and we're still living with this, and we're still living with the impacts of his, of his lies and his agitation of people. look at the letter that adam kinsinger received or his wife received threatening execution because of his position on this committee. we are not out of the woods. and donald trump is responsible for that, not completely, because there was the drug that john talked about, but we're not out of the woods. >> right, and i should say, you know, to your point, mr. bowers and raffensperger both voted for trump and both trump supporters. you know, and for some people watching, to even, you know, imagine getting that -- they were. they wanted him to win, fully, and yet still stood up and did the right thing loudly and clearly. congresswoman, i want to talk about a woman we heard at the top of the program briefly, american citizen, election worker, shea moss, volunteers,

working on the election, she became the subject receiving threats, of one of trump's election lies and here is what she said about how her life has changed. >> one of the videos we just watched, mr. giuliani accused you and your mother of passing some sort of usb drive to eachother. what was your mom actually handing you on that video? >> a ginger mint. don't want anyone knowing my name. don't want to go anywhere with my mom because she might yell my name out over the grocery aisle or something. i don't go to the grocery store at all. i haven't been anywhere at all. i gained about 60 pounds. i just don't do nothing anymore. i don't want to go anywhere, i second guess everything that i do. it's affect my life in a major way.

in every way. all because of lies. >> a testimony from congresswoman that gives you goosebumps. >> absolutely. and again, unfortunately, this isn't an isolated event. i can tell you right now, erin, it's difficult for even utah to find people that will work elections because of this. this is a republican state. and we're still having trouble finding people to work elections because of these wide-spread threats and fears. it's -- it's just unbelievable to me. and like my parents always say, when someone shows you who they are, you should believe them. and we've seen, we've seen the characters of some individuals and we have certainly seen the characters of those who were brave and would know the character of the former president. we should believe him. >> all right, well thanks to all of you and of course, please stay with me as our special coverage continues. next, ivanka trump reportedly

contradicting herself. a new video just handed over to the january 6th committee. new video that many top trump aides didn't know existed and yet it was filmed. so this could be really crucial stuff. what does it show and how was it filmed? plus, chilling new video of the threats election workers face because of the election lies of the former president. >> you're a felon and you must turn yourself in! and the white house, calling out russia for treatment of two americans captured in ukraine, the mother of one of them is out frfront.

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tonight, the january 6th committee now has never before seen video. can you imagine there's still never before seen video? there is, and it's from a british documentary and could play a crucial role in the upcoming hearings, even at this very late stage. the video comes from a film maker named alex polar and it involves interviews with trump himself. also, with mike pence. also, with some of trump's children, and with his in-law, jared kushner, the interest of this video caught some trump aides by surprise. they didn't even know about it, got to interview, president,

vice-president, children of the president, jared kushner, so according to new york times, ivanka trump told the film maker her father should, quote, continue to fight until legal remedy is exhausted, which, of course, is a very different tone from when ivanka said this to the january 6th committee. >> i respect attorney general barr. so i accepted what he was saying. >> out front now and of course what barr said was right, trump became completely disassociated from reality and this was all a bunch of lies, so committee member congresswoman el elaine loria joins us now and i appreciate your time. this film maker, alex fuller, extensive access to trump and his family, also mike pence we understand and just now we're finding out about this documentary and all this extensive footage and interviews.

what can you tell us about what's on those tapes? >> well, i would say these tapes and many other things, the committee is actually still receiving a lot of information relative to this investigation. so, the committee is eager to listen to all of these interviews, to understand what's there and to see, you know, how that adds and continues to paint a more full picture for the investigation that remains under way even as we continue to present what we've learned so far to the public. >> so you're using the future tense here. have you had a chance to even see this video yourself or is it so new the committee hasn't had a chance to review it. >> i personally have not yet, but i know it is amongst the new things the committee is, you know, eager to examine and understand how it fits into the information we've already gathered. >> so one quick point to that, are there other, you know, potentially equally as important pieces of information that have come in you're still to review, that come in as a result of, you know, chairman thompson saying please submit information if you have it? >> i would certainly say after the chairman's appeal at the

previous hearing that we did receive contact from other individuals, we're continuing to determine whether there's more people who are willing to share information and i'm point out again, you know, the committee interviewed over a thousand people, over 20,000 documents and the vast majority other than a small number as the vice chairman mentioned today in the hearing have come forward and presented useful information and that continues today. >> so your fellow committee members, congressman murphy and raskin tell cnn that the hearing schedule was a bit fluid right now in light of new information. is that information to your understanding, the video, or why is the schedule in flux? because we now had just received what appeared to be a formal and final schedule and now we're finding it may be in flux and i'm wondering if we can understand a bit more why? >> i would say we've always been flexible with regards to understanding that we continue

to receive information, we'll incorporate that into the work we're presenting, the hearing scheduled for this thursday, which we'll talk about pressure on the department of justice will continue as scheduled and then the committee continued to evaluate how we can best gather all the information we have, continuing to receive, and let the public know about future scheduled hearings after this thursday. >> and just one final question, if i may ask you, about this particular video. i know you're saying there is other information as well but this video from alice holder, how extensive are the interviews with the former president and in the immediate days prior to january 6th? >> well, i, first, as i said earlier, i haven't had a chance to review it personally yet and as with other information the committee receives, you know, we haven't been disclosing, you know, specifics of people we've spoken to or the content of documents received until we're ready to present those as part of our hearing process and the final report of our investigation. so i think they'll be more information to follow on that as

we're able to digest it and incorporate it and determine how it fits in to information gathered. >> thank you for your time, so back on with me, john, this is, look, they're saying there are multiple pieces of information, chairman thompson has and i think it stands out to a lot of people. you're congress, special committee, you know, sort of saying call this number if you know anything. this one particular thing seems to be pretty significant that nobody knew about it. >> that's what's so surprising. this is a film crew that apparently had access to the trump family, trump campaign, and potentially the white house. people seem to not have known about. >> in the top trump aide. >> that seems incredibly odd, but seems to be a lot of documentary film crews going around. we know the one about the proud boys, the question is what footage did they get, your key question to the congresswoman earlier, was the president on tape and how close to january 6th was he caught on tape.

could that shed new light on his thinking, his statement, what he was saying in private and how it was different from public but a lot of that is what if right now. we need to see what's on the tape, plaeapparently, the commi needs to see what's on the tape. >> there's no more powerful evidence than video tape. you can argue with a witness all day long, claim they have an agenda, but if it's on video, there you go. so this could be, like john said, don't know what's on it but this could be what's on it. investigations used to do this, used to say your investigation is not over until the jury comes back with a verdict and i had investigations come back gotten revelations in the middle of trials so you have to be flexible and go with it. >> and you see this sort of as a citizen you're watching, expecting a presentation and a conclusion, but what we're actually seeing is an iterative work, which is unsettling to the average person, wait, the schedule just changed again?

but you're saying that's normal. >> oh it's driving all of us crazy, of course, but you do have to adjust where the facts take you. >> that's right. and this is what we see with journalistic investigation too. more people come out, more information comes out, the idea is get the fullest picture possible. >> and could be very important, nonetheless, happening at this point, causing things to be in flux, significant and happening in its own rite. thank you so much. and next, the testimony, just how bad it is for election officials who are still standing up to trump's election lies. >> they have had video panel trucks with videos of me claiming me to be a pedophile. plus, three minutes. we all know that's how long it tooks for 11 armed officers to arrive at uvalde. think how many lives they could have saved. but they waited more than an hour to go in.

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trump supporters went to threaten state officials and law enforcers to help overthrow the election because they believed the lie that the election was stolen . >> you're a threat to democracy! >> you're a felon and got to turn yourself in to the authorities! >> and then about 45 minutes later, we started to hear the noises outside my home, and that's, my stomach sunk and i tho thought, it's me. and then, we don't know what's going -- the unetecertainty of t was the fear, like are they coming with guns? going to attack my house? i'm in here with my kid, you know, trying to put him to bed, and so it was -- that was the scariest moment. >> out front now, two election officials who refused to cave into the threats and overturn the election, one of them you heard there, jocelynn benson, also with me, cope accounty

board of advisers, we heard your voice there, obviously, what the committee showed today was chilling and for yourself, for mr. bowers in arizona, for others, you say you were also told donald trump suggested you should be arrested for treason and executed for that. of course, his team denies that, but how scary is it? how frightening is it to be an election official in the united states right now? >> it is, well first, thanks for having us tonight. it is an air of uncertainty and anxiety to do the work we have to do and the path ahead is filled with a lot of potential threats, but it also has emboldened a lot of us to stand firm in support of our democracy. we took oaths of office to support and defend the constitution. we know the truth and law and history of this country is on our side. we know standing up for democracy is what every american need to see do right now so i'm proud to join my colleagues on

the front lines even with the threats. in times like this, that is what protecting and preserving democracy requires. >> chairman gauge, you also stood on the front lines, stood up to the lies, put out extensive report, you know, when the cyber ninjas had all the false allegations, you have taken down every one of those claims in arizona as secretary raffensperger has done, you had to flee to air bnb from death threats, had sheriff deputies guarding your home. here is arizona house speaker rusty bowers who, of course, you know well, and the threats he and his family have faced and how painful it's been. >> it is the new pattern or a pattern in our lives to worry what will happen on saturdays because we have various groups come by and they have had video panel trucks with videos of me

pro claiming me to be a pedophile and a pervert and corrupt politician. there was one gentlemen who had the three bars on his chest and he had a pistol and was threatening my neighbor. >> three bars is associated with at far right militant group. are you still afraid for your own safety and the safety of those close to you, bill? >> so, first of all, thanks for having me on the show. look. here's the situation. we got a job to do. we got important elections to run in 2022. and we cannot let these people intimidate us. we have to be safe, but the threats have come in. you mentioned many of them before. they set up the guillotine for my colleagues and i at the arizona state capitol on january 26th, 2021, and we got to press forward. i agree with secretary benson, i

think a lot of us are as inspired and emboldened as ever and seeing new people, young people, who want to get involved in the business of running elections. it's inspiring. >> i hope we are seeing that because we hear so many reports of other, the pain people feel. secretary benson, ruby freeman and shea moss, we heard from them, the mother and daughter, trump says they passed this usb to each other, cheating votes, and it was a mint. and yet, you heard shea moss talk about her entire life changing. right? the fear that she feels that she doesn't leave her home, gained ski pounds, her entire life changed because of this. the president, you know, accusing here. secretary benson, what does this mean for volunteer election workers who are the bedrock of this country's democracy? >> it means that we are requiring and asking so much of them right now, and many of them are so proud to do their work.

and yet, feel really beaten down by the lies that the former president and his supporters have spread, falsely, maliciously, with no evidence of their wrongdoing and at the same time, we have seen, while we've seen many leave, seen many more step up. and that's what i really hope many americans watching the hearings do in response, recognize this is about the truth, unveiling the truth and seeking accountability but also about protecting our democracy in the future against future attacks and that's where all of us can come together, stand up, defend our democracy, sign up to be a poll worker, support those who are and make sure everyone, no matter who you vote for, where you live, democrat, republican, independent, has a clear path to voting in every election and holding elected officials countable. >> secretary benson, chairman gates, appreciate both of you. i think everyone watching appreciates both of you and the integrity in which you have done your work and have endured. thank you. >> thank you. next, shocking details about

the police response in uvalde, including the fact that police wasted time looking for a key to a classroom door that was not locked. and the state department blasting russia for threats against two americans captured in ukraine. mother of one of those americans is next. waaayyy! no way! [phone ringing] hm. no way! no way! pricelinine. every trip is a big deal. findg the perfect developer isn't easy. but, at upwork, we fou her. she's in prague, between the perfect cup of coffee and her museum of personal computers. and you can find her, and millions of other talented pros, right now on upwork.com

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just in, the senate striking a deal on a bipartisan gun safety bill, the first in a series of votes on the legislation to take place any minute, includes billions of dollars in mental health investment, school safety, and scrutiny of juvenile records for gun buyers younger than 21. it would be congress's most significant response to mass shootings in nearly 30 years. deal comes a month after the deadly massacre in uvalde, in which 19 children and two teachers were killed. and today, the state's top public safety official admitted that the door to the classroom where the school shooter was located was actually unlocked the whole time, as officers waited and waited, took an hour, for a key. gl gloria flores is "outfront." >> three minutes would have made

a difference. >> reporter: today, the police response to the shooting in uvalde. >> three minutes after the suspect entered the west building, there was a significant number of armed officers wearing body armor, to isolate, distract, and neutralize the subject. >> reporter: a surveillance photo obtained by the austin american statesman, showing 19 minutes after the gunman entered the school, three officers, two with rifles and one with a ballistic shield, depicting in full color the 77 minutes of horror children and teachers endured, some calling for help while heavily armed police waited to enter their classroom. according to the latest texas department of public safety timeline, at 11:33 a.m., within 24 seconds of entering rob elementary, the gunman started shooting. just three minutes later, 11 officers also entered, two with rifles. 19 minutes in, the first ballistic shield arrives.

at 11:56, an officer is heard saying if there's kids in there, we need to go in there. >> the law enforcement response to the attack at rob elementary was an abject failure. >> reporter: testifying before the committee, mccraw saying one of the biggest failures? waiting. >> while they waited, the on scene commander waited for radio and rifles. then he waited for shields. then he waited for s.w.a.t. lastly, he waited for a key that was never need ed. >> reporter: despite earlier reports from the texas tribune, that school district police chief, pete arredondo failed dozens of keys that failed to work. mccraw reporting today the room was unlocked. not one officer even attempted to open the door until it was breached at 12:50. >> officers had weapons, the children had none. officers had body armor, the children had none.

>> reporter: in addition, texas tribune received this screen grab from a school surveillance camera, showing officers in the hallway at 12:04, according to documents obtained by the texas tribune, chief arredondo called at 11:40 a.m. saying we got him in the room, he's got an ar-15, he shot a lot. they need to be outside the building prepared because we don't have firepower right now, it's all pistol. put we now know at least two officers had rifles inside the school at the time. at 12:11 p.m., the chief asks for a master key and would take more than 30 minutes more for officers to breach the classroom. >> the only thing stopping the hallway of dedicated officers from entering room 111 and 112 was the on-scene commander who decided to place the lives of officers before the lives of children. >> reporter: we reached out to arredondo's attorney and have not heard back. i just stepped out of the uvalde

city council meeting. it's on-going. clearly missing is pete arredondo, you see, he's not only the police chief of the school district, also a new elected city council member, and erin, on the agenda is a motion to give him a leave of absence. members of the community going forward and asking one question -- if the individuals from rob elementary school did not get a break, why should the police chief? >> unbelievable. thank you very much, rosa. also tonight, appalling, the word the white house is using for russia's threat against two captured americans. >> it's appalling that a public official in russia would even suggest the death penalty for two american citizens that were in ukraine. >> now quinn and alex juky fighting with ukrainian forces north of kharkiv before being

captured and he's referring to putin's spokesman yesterday who said the geneva conventions do not apply to those two americans. state department responded today telling those to treat those captured we've been checking in regularly with alex's mother, bunny, about these developments. she joins me tonight. i'm sorry to be speaking to you again about this without real and good news of your son. i know your family did just speak with the state department. what did they tell you? >> they said -- i took it to be very encouraging news. they said that they were using every available manner of communicating with the russians and i'm confident that they got communication going. >> obviously when you heard dimitri peskov say that the

geneva conventions do not apply, did the state department talk to you at all about that and are they concerned that statements like that could impact their ability to get alex home? >> no, they did not seem to be concerned about that. they really gave us encouragement that they would be able to talk with the russians about it. >> which i know is so significant. it seems, bunny, in a sense a development because i know that a few days ago there were still questions about, you know, sort of where he was or putin's team was sort of saying that he wasn't with pure russian forces, may have been with russian sympathizers and putin's spokesperson in a message today to cnn, they still say the kremlin doesn't know where your son is. they said i don't know where they're being held and who is going to judge them. the only thing that goes without saying is that they are going to be prosecuted and they will be able to stand in court.

do you believe peskov when he says that he doesn't know where alex is? does the state department believe him? >> i would be very surprised if russia didn't know what was going on, because they indicate to the rest of the world that they're very powerful and that they know a whole lot, especially if these are russian surrogates that are doing their bidding over there in ukraine so that they can annex all of that territory. i don't know where russia is getting their information. they obviously missed out on the fact that my son, alex, and his friend, andy, were there to train, not to fight, and that they were members of the ukrainian army, not mercenaries. and so they are to be considered prisoners of war and treated humanely just as the geneva

convention says. >> absolutely. bunny, i know it's your son's 40th birthday this week and you were able to hear a message from alex recently when he spoke to you in a video that i understand was released by his captors over the weekend. i know that you've been watching it every night before you go to sleep. >> yes. >> is there anything you can share with us about it? what he told you? obviously his condition and how much it must mean for you to hear those words every day? >> well, obviously it's short. but in it he looked good. he looked alive, which was wonderful news. and just the fact that he was able to say love you means the world -- i'm sorry, it means the world to me. >> for sure is does. i know wherever he is, he must be -- he'll be so grateful to know that you got it, that

you're able to hear it every night. i'm sure you'll be listening to it again shortly. >> oh, yes. >> thank you, bunny. >> thank you. >> next, new details about why the justice department was paying especially close attention to today's january 6th hearing. do you suffer from cartridge conniptions? be conniption-free, thanks to the cartridge-free epson ecotank printer. a ridiculous amount of ink! you're mocking me. not again! the epson ecotank. just filill & chill. so this is the meta porl plus. a smart deo calling device that makes working from home, work. it syncs with your favorite vc apps so you'll never miss a meeting. and neither will she. meta portal, make working from home work for you.

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tonight the january 6th committee zeroing in on the fake elector scheme allegedly concocted by trump and his allies to overturn the 2020 election. it's also what the doj's federal criminal probe has been focusing on. and it comes as members of the committee, some of the democrats, expressed frustration with what they view as a very slow-moving doj part of the investigation. evan perez is outfront in washington. evan, the committee is obviously -- seems to be moving much more quickly than the doj led by, of course, attorney general garland. >> yeah. look, i think part of the

problem for the committee is that they don't know what they can't see the justice department is doing. we've known now in recent weeks, erin, that there's been a pickup of activity. there's certainly a lot more activity that we've seen from witnesses who have received subpoenas. these are witnesses who were involved in the alternate elector scheme. people who had communications. they're being asked now to provide those communications to the fbi to prosecutors. they want to see communications with trump lawyers, people like rudy giuliani, justin clark, people like john eastman. these people are being asked to provide that information to prosecutors. what you see is a little bit of a contrast. doj is working from the bottom up. they seem to be asking for these communications so they can try to figure out how to get to those people up top. if you saw what the committee was focusing on today, they were focusing more on trump's, you know, his connections and his direct involvement in the

scheme. and that's one of the interesting things and one of the contrasts you can see today from what the committee was focusing on, erin. >> all right, thank you very much, evan. thanks very much to all of you for joining us. our coverage of the january 6th committee hearings continues now with a special edition of "ac 360." ♪ good evening, i'm anderson cooper along with my colleague, jake tapper. tonight we are going inside one of the most riveting days of testimony in the four days of hearings so far. the fourth hearing by the january 6th committee, there's no other way to describe what we saw today. a series of republican state officials putting country ahead of party, testifying to the intense pressure they were under by the former president and his allies to help overturn the 2020 election. >> this is also a deeply emotional day as well for many of these witnesses, some having to collect themselves as they spoke about the toll their decisions have taken