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. it has been a riveting consequential day in washington. there was testimony that the former president was involved in the election scheme. his team said there was no legal basis to decertify the election results nor to deinstall those ele electors, but they pressed on, anyway.

wisconsin senator ron johnson and senator andy biggs tried to overturn the election. we had others that were not household names that tried to make sure the 2020 election was an honest one. take a look. >> the same people who were attempting to pressure vice president mike pence to reject electoral votes illegally were also simultaneously working to reverse the outcome of the 2020 election at the state level. >> we took a hard look at this ourselves, and based on our review of it, including the interviews of the key witnesses, the fulton county allegations were -- had no merit. >> there is nowhere i feel safe. nowhere! do you know how it feels to have

the president of the united states target you? >> it's turned my life upside down. i no longer give out my business card. i don't transfer calls. i don't want anyone knowing my name. >> after the election, the e-mail in my cell phone was attacked, and people started getting e-mails all over the world. my wife started to pressure me, why don't you just quit, walk away? >> the claims of fraud were bullshit. >> why didn't you just quit and walk away? >> because i knew we had followed the law, followed the constitution.

i think sometimes moments require you to stand up and just take the shots, you're doing your job, and that's all we did. >> as a tenet of my faith that the constitution is divinely inspired of my most basic foundational beliefs. so for me to do that because somebody just asked me to is foreign to my very being. i will not do it. >> i'm joined now by a democratic member of the january 6 select house committee, congressman pete aguilar of california. congressman, thank you for joining us. the "new york times" has new reporting about ivanka trump and what she told a film crew, according to maggie haberman who wrote the story. ivanka trump told that film crew that her father should continue to fight until every legal

remedy was exhausted because a lot of americans were questioning the sanctity of the americans. this seems to contradict what she told the committee about how she took attorney general bill barr's announcement that there is no significant voter fraud. can you confirm this is true, and will we see any of this video from this documentary filmmaker at thursday's hearing? >> we're not going to talk about specific evidence that the committee has in its possession, but what i can tell you is that the investigative piece of this puzzle continues to be evolving. we've said that from the beginning, that as we learn new information and take in more evidence, that we're going to continue to adapt to that. what i can tell you, though, is that when people are deposed, they take an oath. it's our understanding and it's our hope, like any american, someone would be truthful when they are being deposed. but if there is new information

within this, then we will adapt and we will analyze and carry forward from there. >> this documentary filmmaker apparently had extensive access to the trump white house in the final weeks of the 2020 campaign and has given over his footage to your question. he acknowledged that on twitter today. what else should we expect to see or hear from the footage you received? i know you can't or won't be specific, but can you at least give us some ideas if there is important -- if there are important moments in that footage we're going to see? >> there is new information we gather each and every time. for example, when the chairman went on tv and he gave the tip line so individuals can reach out to the january 6 committee, we received lots of responses back from that. so it's a very positive step when we can go on national tv, we can give the tip line and we can receive information.

this is new information that's being reported. the committee is going through it just like we would any other group of information we received. if it is meaningful and substantive to our investigation and can be used in a hearing and we feel it rises to the level of sharing with the american public, we'll do so at the appropriate time. but there are more hearings planned after the hearing on thursday. we look forward to getting through this and piecing this puzzle together and sharing with the american public just how close we came to democracy ending on the 6th. >> i know that the committee, as of now, is taking a position where it's up to the justice department whether or not they want to prosecutor take any legal steps. but just as a legal matter, are there any laws being violated if somebody smubmits fraudulent slates to the electors or the

commanders? is that legal? >> i can tell you what the justice department has charged people with already. i can't speak to anything they're working on, but clearly they have charged individuals with obstructing artificial activities on january 6. they've charged individuals with sedition and conspiracy. so there are very substantive charges that they have leveled. our job is to pull together all the information to share with the american public exactly what happened on january 6 and what the causes and circumstances that led up to it are. that's our mission and our mandate and our charge. from an accountability perspective, that's on the department of justice, but we're not going to be shy about showing and displaying this information in our final report when we release it. >> congresswoman liz cheney, the vice chairman of the committee, ended the hearing saying the committee wants to hear from former white house counsel pat cipollone. let's run a little bit of that. >> the american people in our hearings have heard from bill barr, jeff rosen, richard do

donahue and many others who stood up and did what was right. they'll hear more of that testimony soon. but the american people have not yet heard from mr. trump's former white house counsel, pat cipollone. our committee is certain that donald trump does not want mr. cipollone to testify here. indeed, our evidence shows that mr. cipollone and his office tried to do what was right. they tried to stop a number of president trump's plans for january 6. >> what's the status of the committee vis-a-vis cipollone? have you extended a formal invitation to pat cipollone to testify? has he officially rejected that information? has he given any response? >> i'm not going to talk about the specifics of a witness we could hear from, but there are a

thousand interviews we've conducted as part of the process. we're piecing this together. we look forward to sharing the information we can with the american public, but i think it's fair to say that we've talked to dozens of individuals in and around the white house at the time in the. in the hearing i led last week, we heard testimony specifically from individuals saying pat cipollone had told them he knew the vice president did the right thing on january 6 by certifying the election. so, clearly, there is more here that we would like to dig into. obviously it would take a willing witness, and we look forward, at the appropriate time, to having more conversations about that. >> congressman pete aguilar, thank you so much. i appreciate it. we're joined now by "new york times" foreign affairs columnist thomas friedman. he's the author of numerous works including "thank you for being late" and other

publications. thank you for being with us. did you ever think you would see a version of that in the united states and coming into the testimony today? >> no, anderson, i didn't. i find it all shocking. we have to figure out if the united states of america will be a functioning, continuing democracy in the next fooifr years. i think we have to worry if we will see serious political violence in the next five years. what strikes me so much about today's testimony overriding is the number of principal republicans who stood up and put the constitution before donald trump. it ac they actually saved the country in this election, and my hat is off to them. now they have a bigger job. they need to get together, liz

cheney and mitt romney, or whoever, and they have to run a different republican party in the next election to ensure that donald trump never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever sits in the oval office again. they have to take that one for the country. at the same time, democrats have an obligation to not hew so far left. that republicans feel a choice between living with donald trump and having a democrat in government, they can't afford to have a democratic government. that is the two tasks before our two parties today to save our democracy. it is on the line. >> you think the threat is really that great in the next five years? >> i have absolutely no doubt about it. we saw what donald trump did with ukraine to try to leverage

the election. it failed to deter him, basically. he got away with it. then he tried it again. we know one thing about donald trump, he's a quick learner. you can bet if you were to ever t -- if he were to ever take the white house again, do you think he would surround himself with anything other than clowns, clowns like rudy giuliani and john eastman. he would never let a true republican, the ones who saved us in this election, come into the white house. >> i think you said a while ago, when we talked once, and you were in lebanon and watched the country descend into civil war, about how politicians there, they all played this game, they all chipped away at the institutions, they all chipped away at the state thinking, oh, when i get in power, i'll fix things and it will be fine, but i've got to do this to get into power, it doesn't work that way. you see that happening here. >> anderson, think about vice

president pence. donald trump, we now know, when people were chanting, hang pence, we all know trump basically said, maybe he's getting what he deserves in those chants. i don't know about you, so anderson, but if somebody i worked with closely said it would be okay if i was hanged, i kind of wouldn't be out there still defending that person or still keeping my lips sealed, i would be running a national campaign against that person. and the idea that these people who trump has so embarrassed and shamed and defiled even to the point of saying it would be okay if they got hanged, still, out of some crazy hope of keeping alive their prospects for being president, still won't speak up and out and actually take action against this trump-led cult party. that's crazy to me. and what it is doing, what it is doing is leading us to a place where we will no longer be able

to legitimately and peacefully transfer power. that's the core of our democracy, and that's what i saw in lebanon. leaders hacked away at the system, they cheated, they lied, they thieved. and when it broke, it was gone. and when it was gone, it was gone forever. >> what i don't understand about those who continue to, you know, circle the wagons around trump, hang out in mar-a-lago sucking up to him, playing his game, is that they must know that in the end, he will turn on them just as he has everybody else when it's in his interest. kevin mccarthy can't honestly believe he's so entrenched with the former president that the

former president won't drop him for something he wants more than anything in the world which is speaker of the house. you look at the people who voted for the president -- i don't know anything about mr. bowers' politics, he's very conservative, but he's clearly a very principled person and an honorable person, whether you agree with his politics or not. but the president today was lying about him completely before his testimony to try to discredit him. i don't have a question. >> i'm in awe of them, i'm in awe of liz cheney. kevin mccarthy, think about it. he, on the night of january 6, met with republicans in the house and said, this guy is going -- trump is going to be impeached and i'm going to go over to the white house and tell him he's got to leave office. then when we reported that in the "new y

the "new york times" -- >> unfortunately we're having some technical problems, obviously. we appreciate tom friedman being with us. jay? >> i'm joined by senior justice correspondent evan perez. evan, although the committee cannot bring legal charges to merrick garland at the justice department, he's been under pressure to start a political case against president trump. what can you tell us about measure i can garland's next move? >> these are some of the areas that we're seeing some of the progress that some of the critics have been eager to see. you know from the attorney general, there is not a lot he's willing to say. but one of the things we do know from subpoenas that witnesses have received in recent weeks, we know that there is a lot of activity by the fbi, by prosecutors looking specifically at the people who were involved in this alternate elector scheme, and these are people who

had communications with people in the trump circle. what they're being asked, some of these electors and some of these other witnesses, they're being asked for communications with people like rudy giuliani, with people like john eastman, you know, some of these people who were key to try to set up this entire scheme, and it appears, from what we can tell from what they've requested in these subpoenas, is that they're trying to work from the bottom up, which is the way the strategy that the justice department pursues in these types of investigations. obviously we saw an opposite strategy from the committee today. one of the things they were doing was going from the top down. they were looking specifically at the people who were in touch with donald trump and trying to make the case that he is at the crux of this, he is at the heart of it. we'll see whether the justice department gets to that point, but at a minimum, we know that they are circling around, that they're focused on the people who are around the former president, and that's the way they're approaching this case,

jake. >> i'm imevan perez, thanks so . back with me, abby hunt, casey and john king. abby, we just experienced the doj prosecution. what did the president know and when did he know it. this isn't something nixon found out about later, everything was because donald trump wanted it. he may not have known every single detail, but he was the impetus of all of this. >> and he was aware of all the elements of the conspiracy, the fake electors, he was aware that the legal argument was not true. he had been told repeatedly that all the crazy theories of what happened with the ballots were not true. he was aware of all of that. it strikes me that the department of justice is not actually a factual problem.

we know what trump knew, we know what he was involved with and what he wasn't. it's really a political question. it's how far do they want to go? how much do they want to be involved in the turmoil that the country is going to be in one way or another, and that is not a question that has easy answers. i mean, there are foam who would t -- people who would tell you, yeah, you must prosecute to prevent this from happening again, but if you prosecute and you don't get a conviction, what happens then? i think that's one of the problems facing the doj right now. we've had two impeachments of this former president. neither of them were successful. so the bar is actually quite high for a criminal prosecution of a former president, which would be unprecedented. >> i think that there is a very real risk -- there are risks on either side. if you do it, you risk tearing the country apart. if you don't, you risk the future of the country if you let it stand. there are obviously plenty of

democrats who want to see merrick garland doing more than he's doing at the department of justice, but i think there are others that fear prosecuting the former president just makes him politically stronger, gives him more ammunition to work with, and i think that's going to be a real key test if we end up in that kind of universe of what the committee has been able to do throughout this process. have they been able to convince a wide enough swath of the americans who, quite frankly, are sick of a lot of what's going on in our politics. i don't want to say both sides. that's not what i mean. there are people who are turned off by the tone of what's happening, they've tuned out, they've stopped watching the news, they've gotten frustrated with the violence, they don't want to do it anymore, but those are the kinds of people the committee needs to reach as voters if, in fact, we find ourselves in this kind of a situation. >> i would just raise one other thing. we have not seen all the evidence yet, although today we certainly saw he was on phone call after phone call. we know about the public tweets,

what he did to mike pence. i think that my understanding from sources on the committee is we have had a lot of new information come in over the transcript during the course of these hearings. congressman aguilar said the tip line. now we have this documentary film producer, but i'm told there is a lot more to come in. so there is the political side, but there's also what is the evidence going to be, and if there is enough evidence, do you not indict and let someone be above the law? >> another thing, john, that's interesting is this idea of the people who should be watching these hearings are not watching it. david urban said earlier, sand e he's completely right, there are people who need to see

conservatives who have gone through it and had their lives torn upside down are not aware of it. at some point i have to say, just to play devil's advocate here, so what. i'm sorry that millions of americans were lied to and believed this lie. that doesn't mean that the law enforcement apparatus in this country should walk on eggshells that obviously this is illegal. beyond just the qanon shaman, there are a lot of laws that have been broken here. >> you raise legal questions and political questions. to the legal point, justice is supposed to be blind. no one is above the law. that blindness should mean that whoever commits the crime, the president of the united states or the janitor, you can't be critical of that.

one thing you hear from a lot of former prosecutors is do you indict the people around trump and have an unindicted co-conspirator who is trump win convictions, and try to discredit trump that way, then you don't violate the tradition that we don't do political prosecutions? a lot of democrats would say that would be outrageous. merrick garland has to make a lot of tough choices. >> ford pardoned nixon. why did ford pardon nixon? because he was going to be committed of crimes. he was probably going to go to jail. >> and he knew it would look bad for him. >> i'm not saying he even did anything wrong, i'm saying it was out there. that's why he was pardoned because it was possible that president nixon would be charged with crimes. his attorney general went to prison. >> his attorney general went to prison. so do you send other people to prison and try to send a signal that way? merrick garland, i know others wanted him to be very aggressive. he's in a tough position.

think how difficult it would be to prove these crimes that if trump was charged again and got off, might it help him politically? what we have is the key question of this moment. what's more important for republicans? the next two or three years where they can have power or the next 25 years? look your children or grandchildren in the eyes. listen to what you have heard. forget sham committee, forget shifty shift. it doesn't matter who ran the committee. listen to the people around trump the next two weeks and listen to what you'll hear the next three weeks. what matters, what your grandchildren think next year, or be honest, count the votes, say damn it and win the next one. we're going to discuss the testimony we heard today with multiple individuals about the threats and intimidation they face simply for doing their jobs and all because they were called

out by president donald trump. this cycle of threats will join us. what to expect in two days from now in the next hearing as our coverage of the january 6 committee hearing g continues. ♪ lunchables! built to be eaten. you never know what opportunities life will send your way. but if you have moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis or psoriatic arthritis, enbrel can help you say i'm in for what's next. ready to create a bigger world? -i'm in enbrel can help you say ready to earn that “world'st. greatest dad” m? -i'm in. care to play a bigger role in this community? -'m in. ready to create a bigger world? -i'm in enbrel helps relieve joint pain, helps stop permanent joint damage, and helps skin get clearer in psoriatic arthritis. with less pain, you're free to join in. enbrel may lower your ability to fight infections. serious, sometimes fatal events including infections, tuberculosis, lymphoma, other cancers, nervous system and blood disorders,

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and eat it too. nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts for all-day, all-night protection. can you imagine 24 hours without heartburn? much of the testimony we heard today was about how donald trump used his position as a bully. he would publicly call out the witness for not helping to overturn the election and how those witnesses faced threats and harassment from trump's followers. that included arizona's house speaker rusty bowers. >> there was one gentleman that had the three bars on his chest, and he had a pistol and was threatening my neighbor not with the pistol but just vocally. when i saw the gun, i knew i had

to get close. and at the same time, on some of these we had a daughter who was gravely ill who was upset by what was happening outside. >> rusty bowers mentioned his daughter who was gravely ill at the time all this madness was happening. casey bowers died in january 2021, just weeks after the january 6 riot. i'm joined by another republican who faced the same hideous anger and intimidation tactics and threats against his family and children, al schmidt. former commissioner of philadelphia, he testified before the january 6 committee last week. mr. schmidt, thank you for joining us. you received threats for

overturning votes and overturning false electors, what did you think of that when you also received similar threats yourself? >> i knew how widespread this was for election officials across the country, and that the former president intentionally targeted them, targeted them by name and just unleashed his deceived sort of followers and all of the ugliness in their direction. >> let's recall, because you and i talked about this before. in philadelphia a lot of the counting was being done in the civic center, in the convention center, rather, downtown. there were lunatics arrested heading there with guns. >> and i think that's a very important point, and that example really ties a lot of this together. they headed to the pennsylvania convention center where we were

tabulating the votes up from virginia with guns and ammunition and all sorlts of other materials to straighten things out or whatever they said they were going to do in philadelphia. they were arrested right outside our facility with guns, handguns and an ar-15 in our vehicle. and later those same two men were arrested because of their activity on january 6 on capitol hill. again and again the same people believing the same lies and being motivated into acting out a physical manifestation of all of these lies and doing so while armed. >> the former president continues to paint his enemies who are in the republican party as rinos, republican in name only. he's gone after you by name saying you're being used by, quote, the fake news media. to be clear, you and i have talked about this before. you're a republican, you're a chairman for the john mccain campaign, you were elected on a platform of battling voter fraud

in philadelphia. what is it like when you hear donald trump tell these lies about you? >> well, it's a little bit surreal and also to see people like speaker bowers and secretary raffensperger and others, and they are deeply conservative republicans. and to hear them referred to as rinos or many others just because of telling the truth about the 2020 election and all the grief that sort of went their way, it's really surreal and has nothing to do with a republican at all. it has to do with whether you're willing to lie for the former president or not. >> former philadelphia commissioner al schmidt, good to see you again. thank you so much. >> likewise. once more david urban former campaign strategist for the former president. we also welcome elliott williams

and gloria borger is back with us as well. >> it's a stage they put on in congress presenting senators, but also as a prosecutor, you have to know your audience. they're doing this massively. it is hard to do, number one. number two, i think the moment of the day was the name check of pat cipollone, the white house counsel. it is clear they're trying to get in donald trump's head and find out how specifically and how explicitly he was told that what he was doing was unlawful, and the one person they want to hear from is the white house counsel. that's a name we'll keep hearing over the next couple days. they're building a lot of evidence and a strong case. >> david urban, did it make sense to you what liz cheney was saying at the end of this, making clearly some sort of message so pat cipollone? >> i can guarantee one thing. you will not hear from pat cipollone. of the few people that have the privilege, the white house

counsel has the privilege -- >> well -- >> i think it would be litigated long past this january 6 commission. >> sure. >> and pat cipollone would have to voluntarily come before the committee, which he's not going to do. liz cheney can talk about pat cipollone and all these great things he may or may not do and kind of hang it out there, but he's not going to show up. he's not going to testify. >> it's not like pat cipollone is a huge fan of the if tpresid at this point. we know he protected him in impeachment, but he whined at some point and cipollone was in these meetings with top justice officials and said, we'll quit. we'll leave. we're not going to stand for this. it would be important to hear from him. they know privately what he would say publicly, they do -- >> attorney general, i would guess. >> pat cipollone wouldn't want

to come before the district attorney. >> we heard this campaign commercial from griden who is running for senate. is anybody a rino who is not willing to support the lies of the former president? i guess that is what it now -- >> it's essentially how it's been redefined. you're not going to find somebody more conservative than myself. republican now is inextricably linked to president trump and the election lies he's spread. rino gets thrown around left and right like jake, who is a republican, whof was elected asa republican. but all of this bears on president trump if he chose to run. it is not a binary choice between trump and garland. if there aren't illegal charges brought up, america could say,

maybe it's time to pick a different republican leader. >> and maybe trump isn't republican. did you ever think of that? trump is not as conservative as you or liz cheney or bowers or whoever, but it is a cult and it is a trump cult, and at some point the republican party has to figure out what it is, and someone has to stand up to donald trump and say, you know what, that's your -- you're not part of that. >> let me make it clear, right now donald trump still is the guy, right? amongst a majority of the republican primary voters across america, we see this time and time again, that the trump candidates, trumpism, maga, controls the party. >> this gets to what john king brought up with jake earlier. the question john said facing republicans is bhwhat's more important, continuing these lies to win the next election cycle, or to be able to look your kids and grandkids in the eye and say that you did the right thing. you're saying it's not that

easy. >> if it were that easy, you would have people standing up and doing that. politicians are responsible to their electorate, right? whether it's in pennsylvania or indiana or florida, people are going to their town hall meetings, their fire halls, they're going to their fairs, they're hearing from their constituents and people are saying, we don't believe this. we don't think it really happened. whatever the conspiracy theory may be, whatever their reasoning may be, they believe it, okay? until you convince those people that it really happened and it was a really bad thing, donald trump will remain king. >> but, david, i will say you're probably like me hearing from republican potential candidates who are watching the last few weeks and they're thinking, this might be my moment. this is what might make me vote for president trump. >> look at da--

>> you won't be a senator, you won't be in the governor's mansion, you won't be in the senate, can you effectuate change if you're not in the chair? >> i think people are fixating on is it a crime or not? you're making the case of the american people, you're making a case of the electorate. it's a political body, and number three, maybe they will come out with criminal charges and take it to the justice department, or not. the justice department can choose to investigate or not the president right now. we'll hear from officials who heard disinformation to overturn the election.

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tonight members of the house committee said it's in flux because of that newly obtained footage, but we do know the next public hearing is still set for thursday, at least as of now. that's when three trump justice department officials, including the acting attorney general who replaced bill barr is set to testify. jeff rosen has already spoken with the committee in private. he has shown a willingness to pursue the fraud claims other justice officials wouldn't. this is what he told us about the accusations in georgia video

revealed today. >> we took a hard look at this ourselves, and based on our review of it, including the interviews of the key witnesses, the fulton county allegations were -- had no merit. >> abby phillip, jamie gangel and john king are all back with us. jamie, that's significant, because what people don't understand, the trump supporters don't understand is bill barr, jeffrey rosen, all these other folks, the u.s. attorney, b b.j. pak, they would have wanted to find fraud to please him, but there wasn't any fraud. >> as i frequently say about all the testimony coming out now is better late than never, but where were they at the time? i'm told the thursday hearing is going to be even more compelling and effective than what we heard

today. i'm told that jeffrey rosen, richard donahue, that they are blunt and they're going to lay out exactly what was going on at the time. i also just want to go back to cipollone and liz cheney, her calling him out today. david urban, we heard him say with anderson there is no way cipollone's coming in to testify. that may be true, but expect a lot of pressure from the committee to try to get him there. >> because, of course, there is no reason for cipollone to not testify except for self-preservation in this particular case, and there is a strong -- if you are a republican and you want to continue to have a law firm where you have clients in republican spaces, you want to continue to operate in your social circles and go to the country club, it's hard to testify against trump and still do all of those things, so a lot

of the witnesses we are not seeing are facing that dilemma. but i will say about thursday, it will be interesting to see what the lawyers have to say about these insane, quote, unquote, legal theories. and also the machinations that were happening in do j. i think you don't have to be a lawyer to know that all of these ideas were probably illegal, that they didn't make any sense. but i think that the lawyers who are lawyers will be pretty blunt in breaking down why none of this really made any sense and we'll learn some things, probably, about how close we got to some really unethical people getting installed in the justice department at a really critical moment. >> one of the things, abby, to go back to your point about cipollone, and it ties in with what john was saying during our last conversation, there actually is a big difference between what happens here in washington in those social circles and those country clubs and what we've seen play out in the states, right? the difference between brad

raffensperger and some of the others we saw today was he was actually able to say back to the georgia voters and get reelected. he received from his party -- his governor brian kemp was also reelected at the objection of donald trump. people like cipollone are test between courage and a lack of it. and i am interested to see because we're going to bring the conversation on thursday back here to washington, what we learned about who was willing to stand up inside the department of justice. i mean, we had obviously some reporting about it, but i think that's going to be the question, who the profiles in courage we don't understand. >> can you be more compelling than today, because today was more compelling. the committee is trying to disprove what you hear from trump. he thought the president was gypped and was venting.

no. and then told repeatedly in the two mom two months, sir, we had a re-count, sir, you cannot do that. you have trump looking for additional actors. when you get the testimony from mr. rosen and donahue and the justice department saying this was crazy, the attorney general and what did donald trump want to do? he wanted to fire them all and put an environmental lawyer in charge of the justice department. the speaker in arizona wouldn't do his bidding. michigan officials wouldn't do his bidding. he couldn't get the pennsylvania people to do his bidding. that is the point they're trying methodically. this is not a president who was venting. this was a president who knew he lost and kept looking for people to help him cheat. >> one of the other things i wonder about this if pat cipollone is making this decision, i don't want to be completely on the outs with

republicans, et cetera. liz cheney said this today. we know that he was internal at the white house trying to push back on a lot of this stuff. donald trump has already got him on his enemies list, you know what i mean? that's done. that ship has sailed. donald trump said something negative about ivanka trump the other day when the testimony came out that she believed bill barr. she was out of the loop. >> she was checked out. >> i'm just saying it's not the kind of thing i would say about my daughter. >> you could say the same about mike pence. >> right exactly. >> i mean -- or don mcgahn before that. >> it would be an understatement to say trump threw pence under the bus. he called him the p-word in a phone call in the last days of the administration. but you talked to pence, he gave an interview to "the wall street journal" over the weekend where he kind of didn't have really anything negative to say about trump. pence is the epitome of someone who is walking that line. you're really not on trump's

side, but you can't be overtly anti-trump. >> somebody called this the brian kemp method, which trump might be mad at me, i'm not mad at him. that's what pence is trying to do. that's not original. but cipollone is not depending on on votes, he's just depending on business, right? >> people are voting with their pocketbooks. in this town, i'm going to be honest, people need to remain employed, and that matters. >> thanks to all of you. we're going to be right back with final thoughts on this extraordinary day in the search for answers and truth and facts by the select committee. one name that stuck out and how it reminded us of a disturbing chapter in the united states nearly 70 years ago. that's next. made to be re-made. not all plastic is the same. we're carefufully designing our bottles to be 100% recyclable, including the caps. they're collected and separaratd from other plastics, so they can be turned back into material that we use to make new bottles. that completes the circle and reduces plastic waste.

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former georgia elections worker moss testified about what was like to be on the receiving end of a donald trump smear campaign. >> yes, a lot of threats, wishing death upon me, telling

me that i'll be in jail with my mother and saying things like be glad it's 2020 and not 1920. >> where a lot of these threats and vile comments racist in nature? >> a lot of them were racist. a lot of them were just hateful. >> in her testimony there was a different recalling on capitol hill with a different woman with the last time moss. she was also a government employee and targeted with lies and smears and demagoguery and no small amount of racism. but i'm talking now about annie lee moss who was dragged before senator joe empathy's committee in march 1954. mccarthy had sold to the public the possession that there was a soviet spy in the code room of the pentagon.

>> annie lee moss. >> m-o-s-s? >> that's right. >> annie lee moss was not a soviet spy any more than shea moss was on election thief. annie lee moss was a civilian teletype operator and a loyal government employee who had absolutely no idea what senator joe empmccarthy was talking abo >> do you know the type of classification -- do you know if they were secret, top secret, confidential? >> no, sir, >> otherwise you wouldn't know the degree of classification? >> no, sir. >> i see. i'm afraid i'm going to have to excuse myself. >> it was a complete farce. highlighted a few days later my edward r. murrow, the mccarthy smear campaign against moss backfired on him.

wisconsin folks saw her as a nice old lady who wasn't harming anyone and they didn't like their senator picking on her, unquote. there were other mccarthy disgraces, of course, as well. by the end of the year, the republican party and the u.s. senate had distanced themselves from joe mccarthy and his smears and lies. one wonders what wandrea shea mosses legacy will be. will the bullying and smears and attempted destruction of her life and livelihood, will that mean anything to today's public? at long last. >> well said, jake. the echos of history echo today. let's turn things over to don lemon and "don lemon tonight." don? this is "don lemon tonight." i'm so happy that you could join us this evening because