to decertify biden's win in his state. biggs ignored cnn's questions about it. bowers said guiliani never provided evidence of their conspiracy theories. even admitting there was none. >> what exactly did he say and how did it come up? >> my recollection, he said we've got lots of theories. we just don't have the evidence. i don't know if that was a gaff or maybe he didn't think through what he said. afterwards we kind of laughed about it. but i do not take this current situation in a light manner, a fearful manner, or a avengeful manner. i do not want to be a winner by cheating. >> reporter: trump's lawyer john eastman allegedly told bowers to just replace the electors even if he did not have the authority. >> he said, just do it and let the court sort it out. i said, you're asking me to do something that's never been done in history, the history of the

united states, and i'm going to put my state through that without sufficient proof? >> reporter: but trump pressed on and the committee revealing his involvement in the trump campaign effort to send a fake set of electors on january 6th to prevent congress from certifying joe biden's victory. >> what did the president say when he called you? >> essentially he turned the call over to mr. eastman who then proceeded to talk about the importance of the rnc helping the campaign gather these contingent electors in case any of the legal challenges that were ongoing changed the result of any of the states. >> reporter: newly revealed text messages from the morning of january 6th show the apparent involvement of gop senator ron johnson, an exchange between staffers for johnson and vice president pence shows johnson wanted to give pence an

alternate slate of electors from michigan and wisconsin. pence's staffers responded, do not give that to him. the pressure campaign extended to georgia where trump's chief of staff texted or called brad raffensperger 18 times to set up a phone call where he pressed the gop election official to find the votes needed to overturn the election. >> why wouldn't you want to find the right answer, brad, instead of keep saying that the numbers are right? the real truth is i won by 400,000 votes at least. >> every single allegation we checked. we ran down the rabbit trail to make sure that our numbers were accurate. >> reporter: raffensperger described the threats against him and his family after he disputed trump's fraud claims. >> eventually my wife started getting texts and hers typically came in a sexualized text which were disgusting. some people broke into my daughter-in-law's home and my son has passed and she is a widow. and has two kids. so we're very concerned about her safety, also. >> reporter: former georgia

election official wanda moss testifying about the threats she, her mother, and her son received because of donald trump's persistent lies. >> be glad it's 2020 and not 1920. i just felt like it was my fault. for putting my family in this situation. >> reporter: her mother saying her life was in danger. >> the fbi informed me that i needed to leave my home for safety. i felt homeless. i felt, you know, i can't believe -- i can't believe this person has caused this much damage to me and my family. >> i caught up with senator ron johnson in the aftermath of the revelation from the committee that one of his aides had reached out to mike pence's office on the morning of january 6th and offered an alternate set of electors from the states of michigan and wisconsin, something that the pence aide flatly rejected. now, johnson revealed that he was in fact aware on that morning of january 6th that that ask had been made, saying someone had asked them to deliver something to mike

pence's office. he said he did not know who was behind this. he said he had, quote, no idea the identity of the individual pushing those fake electors and he also dismissed the whole thing entirely, calling it a nonstory and saying he had no involvement in this effort to overturn the election. don? >> all right. manu raju, thank you so much. i appreciate that. i'll bring in now cnn's chief legal analyst mr. jeffrey toobin, scott jennings, and senior political analysts kirsten powers and john avlon. good evening. good to have you all on this evening. we've now had four hearings. today was trump's intimidation of state officials. before that we learned trump knew there was no evidence of widespread voter fraud but pushed the big lie anyway. attorney general barr said trump was detached from reality. there was trump's pressure on pence and putting his vp in danger. add all of this up. what have we learned and where are these hearings going, do you think? >> well, i think what we've

learned is that donald trump pushed what he knew to be a lie, what he was told was illegal and un-constitutional, what we learned today was that even his legal team, the people arguing loudest in court and on the tv, the court of public opinion, rudy guiliani in particular said we got lots of theories. we've got no evidence. they had nothing. they gas lit the country, divided our democracy, duped their supporters, tried to intimidate fellow republicans to overturn our elections based on nothing. >> before we get to the others you were sitting here and we were talking about rudy guiliani and something that he said you just found to be insidious. >> yeah. you know, as you know, i worked for rudy when he was mayor and i was proud to do it. this is a very different person. when he was lying about what he saw as evidence of voter fraud in the tapes, you know, a usb was passed to manipulate votes, he said. he used language, he said, these

well known vote hustler, passing this around like crack cocaine and heroin. that's subliminal. he is drawing on '80s prosecutor stuff. only semiconsciously but completely racist in its tone. vote hustler. passing drugs. you know what got me about her comments today? this was the humanity that we lose sight of when people buy into these conspiracies. what was it? it was ginger mints. they were passing ginger mints. >> there you go. thank you for that. jeff, the hearing today about trump's direct role in the fake elector scheme according to a republican witness including rnc chairwoman rona mcdaniel. how does this fit into the larger election conspiracy do you think? >> well, it's all one conspiracy. it's every effort being made, whether it is putting forward the fake electors -- and by the way, i just think we use the term fake electors. it is worth just pausing to focus on the audacity of this.

i mean, you know, being an elector is a government official job. you can't appoint yourself an elector. it's like appointing yourself a united states senator. the idea that they created these slates as if they had any legal significance at all, just shows the arrogance of -- with the way they operated. but, you know, it was the electors. it was trying to change the vote totals. and the thing that came home today for me was the violence. the violence that was so much a part of the effort to overturn the election. you know, we've talked a lot of course about the 800 people who have been arrested for being inside the capitol, but think how much other violence there has been. the violence against these election officials in georgia. the threats against the people in arizona. everywhere the trump forces

went, violence went with them. and that's something to think about as we think about the political legacy of donald trump. violence is a central part of it. >> i mean this in all seriousness, jeffery. we want to be precise in our language, right, we are the first draft of history as they say. fake, is that -- should we be using a stronger term? is it fraudulent electors? >> you know, i think that may be just semantics. i think fake is good enough. fraudulent perhaps is even better. but i just think it's worth pausing about the, to think about the mindset of people who would appoint themselves government officials because that is what electors are. the idea you could simply decide that you are an elector is just so breathtaking to me. >> scott, the republicans who testified today like the arizona house speaker rusty bowers. he voted for donald trump twice. but when he was asked to break

the law, he wouldn't do it. what happened to them? they were thrown to the wolves. the same thing happened to pence. how can republicans still be enabling trump and his lie knowing all that? >> well, a couple things. number one, thank goodness these people did their duty. i think as you watch these hearings and you see these people who stood up and understood what their public responsibilities were and they didn't shirk from that. they didn't run away from it. they stood up to it. knowing full well what was going to happen to them because of the president's anger. so thank you to the people who did that. number one. number two, i hope people are paying close attention to the absolute brazenness of this. because you could be next. if donald trump runs for president again and is going to choose a running mate, you know what the first and only question in that interview is going to be. and so i think people need to internalize what your interactions with him are going to be like in the future. the final thing about this, don, is the -- what i -- i keep

asking myself what did they think was going to happen? let's just pretend for a minute that somebody said yes to this. did they really think that the country was just going to accept new electors or, hey, i know you got more votes but the other guy got more votes but you're going to remain -- did they really think this was going to be accepted by the country? pretty crazy. >> can i answer that? >> yes. >> they thought they were going to win the presidency. they thought they could steam roll the process. i mean, scott, why is that surprising to you at all? you know, create confusion and then just jam through a victory. that is exactly what they thought they were going to do. >> but the thing is there was no confusion. you look at these states, yes, some of them were close but the reality is he didn't get more votes than the other guy. so i just, the idea that you would say, we got fewer votes but a couple guys called us and said, ah, we're going to give you the electors. the country would have been in a

complete and total meltdown. the idea they thought that would be something they could manage over time, i find that incredible. >> keep in mind eastman testified that, there was testimony that eastman was willing to let violence happen because violence happened before in the history of this country. scott, i have to hold you to account because my question was how can republicans still be enabling trump and his lie shall the big lie, knowing all of this? that was the question. >> look, yeah. the bottom line is they have caused more than half, you know, i'd say of the rank and file republican party to believe that everything we're seeing on our television, everything we saw on our television didn't actually happen. i mean, they have convinced people that this is a concoction. this has been conjured up by the people who have always been trying to destroy donald trump. and the reality is, it all happened live on our television. it is all happening live on our television today.

my advice to people is we've got to move on from this. you have to accept the reality of what happened. and the reality of what could happen should we renominate this guy. >> kirsten, maybe you'll answer it. >> i'm answering it. what do you want me to say? they should enable this. we should not enable this for the future. it is a wrong thing. >> all right, good. that is a clearer answer. thank you. listen, kirsten, trump today attacked rusty bowers and said bowers told him in november, 2020 conversation that the arizona vote was, quote, rigged and that he won arizona. this is rusty bowers' response today. >> anywhere, anyone, anytime has said that i said the election was rigged. that would not be true. >> what is he describing there? we heard the same thing last week from pence's counsel greg jacob. he said it was categorically untrue. when trump put out a press release saying trump and pence were in total agreement on the january 6 plan it was another

lie. >> yeah. that's what trump does, right? there is nothing unusual about that. doesn't mean we should accept it or normalize it but he just creates alternative reality and asks everybody to sort of come along with it. and i think, you know, what we're seeing here is actually something that we've seen in every trump investigation actually we are reminded of regular people who -- who are not famous people or people in the public eye but just regular americans who are just doing their jobs. you know, and who are -- who actually are honest and believe in the constitution and believe in the oaths that they take for their office. and will do it even when bullied literally by the president of the united states. and the people who are the outlier behavior, the people who are abhorrent are the donald

trumps and the rudy guilianis and the people running around and helping donald trump with this. it is such extreme behavior and such dangerous behavior and, you know, we're reminded also what a bully donald trump is. and how it just, he delights in just bullying people and destroying their lives. >> john, hold on. >> he is incredibly dangerous on so many levels. >> not only don't you feel, i mean it is, how many groundhog days have we lived like 7,858 from the very beginning we would say, well no. trump is lying, making his own reality. about little things. then we'd be on the next night doing the same thing and the next night dao the same thing. here we are six, seven years later about the biggest lie. we would always say, boy, i would say every night, if you lie about something big, if you lie about something small you'll lie about something big. guess what he did?

he died about something really big. we're saying oh, well of course he lies. when does this end? when do we stop sitting here talking about the lies that donald trump lied about that he lied about and people saying oh, well it's not true. you're just lying because you hate him. no, we are telling you he's lying because he's lying. >> it is not partisan to call out lies. there are not two sides to this story. we know from the testimony of republicans over the course of this hearing that donald trump lied about the election and tried to destroy our democracy. >> he lied he encouraged lies. he is a bigot. he encouraged bigots. he is a racist and encouraged racists. >> he even turned on his vice president the most loyal guy in the world. when is it going to stop? when the vast majority of republicans including specially elected officials stand up to donald trump and remember that lying is unacceptable. destroying our democracy is disqualifying. we need more rusty bowers. people with real character and courage. he is a conservative guy.

what i love is this democracy coalition being created with people who are very conservative. transcending partisan lines because they are trying to remind us of what is right. >> can i make a suggestion that the lying, the authoritarianism, the racism maybe that's why he's popular with a lot of people. maybe this is a feature not a bug that there is an authoritarian streak in a lot of americans. you know, it's the same dna that brought us, you know, the plot to kidnap the governor of michigan, the mass shootings in buffalo and el paso and in pittsburgh. i mean, this is not something -- >> and that insurrection, don't forget. >> but i think what is important is it's all part of the same idea. >> not to mistake the streak jeffery is talking about with partisan divides. what is important about rusty

bowers and the larger things we're seeing, yes, there are people who will back an authoritarian. may be motivated by all sorts of things. that is a strain in our society. but if we see time and again there are good republicans who have the courage to stand up to donald trump, still not enough in the party but we need to celebrate those folks. >> but it is not enough. because if it's the few when you get the liz cheneys of the world and adam kinzinger, they are driven out of power. and once they are out of power finally people have the courage to stand up and say well all along -- why didn't you do it when you were in power and stand up then? >> we need to be lifting up those people in power making the difficult choice to stand up to that. >> scott? >> there's nothing for the average republican to do today. i mean, the reality is there is nothing for them to do today. there is to watch it. to consume this information. to understand the truth about what happened. the real question is going to be when this nomination process starts for president in 2024 are we going down this road again?

i'll remind everyone in 2016 donald trump got 45% of the republican primary vote. we'll have another fragmented presidential primary. so to me this is the one and only question today is are we going to plunge ourselves into this chaos once more? we're going to have people, many people who fit the bill who could win who want to do all the same conservative stuff that we all want to do but wouldn't plunge the country into chaos again. that is the choice. >> scott, where is the republican road show going around the country telling people, hey look. we have to stop this. where is that group of people who can go around the country who can go to town halls, who are respected members of the republican party and say, donald trump is lying to you. you have been coopted by a liar and a bigot and someone who is not good for your party. and not good for democracy. where are those people? >> you're literally asking for a campaign. lucky for you we have one every two years in this country and

we're going to have a presidential campaign. >> no i'm not asking for an election or campaign. i'm asking for a truth brigade is what i'm asking for. i'm asking for a come to jesus reality. go ahead. >> it wouldn't make any difference. i mean, this is, you know, i understand if you're a republican, scott, you want to believe the republican party is different than this but it's not. i mean, republicans supported donald trump. it's not just the base. you know, when you look at polls there are a lot of republicans who supported him when he was in office and then he has this core base that follows him around no matter what he does. even republicans who condemn him even, you know, his former attorney general who has said all these things about how he was full of it and, you know, was making things up basically said he would vote for him again. so i don't think there is a road

show that can happen to go out to these people that are going to suddenly make them change their minds. and support another republican. i mean, in the polls trump, unless something changes from this, which i'll be surprised if it changes that dramatically, he is the one leading the polls for the primary >> i want to hear scott. >> well, i agree with you he is leading the polls. my point is, you know, a road show? where would you go or what would you do? you are asking for the republican party to consider whether he should be the leader of the republican party and the next moment when we choose a leerd of our party is in the presidential nominating contest. he is obviously going to run. pence is going to run. they all have to present essentially the message you just did that hey we don't have to do all the crazy stuff to get the policy stuff we want. that is going to be the campaign and the party will have to choose. >> but, scott, we are having

primaries all over the country now for other offices. >> not for president. donald trump will not be the central issue in a campaign until 2024. >> anyone who doesn't support donald trump is getting wiped out in these primaries. a very conservative congressman in south carolina was voted out of office in a republican primary and he got 25% of the vote. an incumbent. this is who is winning these primaries. >> and right next door nancy mace defied him and won her primary. it is not uniform. but the reality is, trump is not the central issue in these congressional primaries. >> it is a wink and a nod. i have to run. >> the issue will be settled in 2024 not this year. >> thank you all. i appreciate it. witness after witness today talking about the threats they faced for refusing to nuk under to the then -- knuckle under to the then president. next we'll talk to a man who

knows what it is like to face that kind of threat former d.c. police officer michael fanone. l. the moment you become an expxpedia member, you can instantly start savingng on your travels. so you can go and see all those, lovely, lemony, lemons. ♪ and never wonder if you got a good deal. because you did. ♪

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multiple witnesses testifying today about a widespread fake elector scheme and the violent threats they have endured just because they told the truth and did their jobs. joining me now one of the officers that risked their lives defending the capitol on january 6th, michael fanone now a cnn law enforcement analyst. thank you for joining me. today i'm sure all of these hearings must be tough for you to watch. we heard multiple people describe the threats they faced for refusing to go along with trump's election lies.

listen and then we'll talk. >> now i won't even introduce myself by my name anymore. i get nervous when i bump into someone i know in the grocery store who says my name. i'm worried about who is listening. >> i don't go to the grocery store at all. i haven't been anywhere at all. this has affected my life in a major way. in every way. >> we started to hear the noises outside my home. that's when my stomach sunk. that was the scariest moment just not knowing what was going to happen. >> mike, unfortunately you understand what this is like all too well. >> yeah, i do. i mean, the testimony today really did resonate with me. having been on the receiving end of death threats and a lot of

hateful, angry e-mails, phone calls, speech. i know how life changing it can be. >> adam kinzinger and his family received death threats because he's part of the january 6th select committee. he shared a threatening letter his wife received mentioning their 5-month-old son by name. you spoke to the congressman about this. what can you tell us about it? >> yeah, i talked to adam soon after he and his wife received the letter. i mean, unfortunately, the content of the letter is disgusting but it doesn't shock me. it's just what those of us who have spoken out against trump's lies and against the violent insurrection on january 6th have come to expect in our lives.

>> sadly, that's what you've come to expect. look, it doesn't seem like, mike, the violence is going anywhere and we saw how congressman dan crenshaw was harassed by right wing protesters. in missouri, we've got eric grieten putting out a campaign ad showing him holding what appears to be a long gun while he talks about hunting rhinos or republicans in name only. what do you think law enforcement should be doing about the threat of violence hanging over our politics right now? >> i mean, i don't know what law enforcement can do in these circumstances. i mean, i report threats that are made to me and, unfortunately, you have a lot of people, politicians now who are abiding by this trump playbook which is like douse everything in gasoline and hand out matches to all your supporters. if something violent happens,

just hide behind the idea it was hyperbole or political rhetoric. there was a time in the not so distant past, don, when our politicians punted to media personalities would adhere to this standard of conduct and if you deviated from that standard you were ostracized and alienated. today you're rewarded. we got politicians who engage in violent, hateful rhetoric, and even those who participated in the insurrection against the government who win elections. me, personalities who received higher ratings. i don't know what there is, unfortunately, i think there is a lot of people in this country in elected positions talking about the president, merrick garland who come from this mindset that many of our leaders abide by that if you model good behavior, people are going to behave well. kind of like an honor code.

that is just not working. it doesn't work with violent criminals who shoot up our streets and it's not going to work for a president who couldn't care less about his oath to the constitution. we definitely need some type of accountability. unfortunately, i would have said, you know, maybe ten years ago, in my cynical law enforcement speak that it's going to take something awful to happen before somebody does something but awful stuff happens every single day in this country and nobody is doing anything about it. >> right on. michael fanone, thank you, sir. i appreciate it. >> thank you. with a painless, one-second scan i know my glucose numbers without fingersticks. now i'm managing my diabetes better and i've lowered my a1c from 8.2 to 6.7. take the mystery out of managing your diabetes

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the uvalde neighbor delivering a blistering speech tonight saying he has yet to receive a briefing on the shooting that killed 19 children and two of their teachers last month and going on, going after i should say the texas department of public safety. the dps director testifying earlier in the day police failed to properly respond to the shooting. >> while they waited, the on scene commander waited for radio and rifles. then he waited for shields. then he waited for s.w.a.t. lastly, he waited for a key that was never needed.

the post columbine doctrine is clear and compelling and unambiguous. stop the killing. stop the dying. >> good evening to you. the mayor of uvalde said he would be throwing people under the bus tonight and he came out swinging against the texas department of public safety. what happened? >> reporter: this was something, don, certainly. this was a city council hearing where people in the community were there. the mayor just from the beginning saying that he was fed up with what he was hearing from state officials, putting all the blame on the uvalde police, on the chief there, the chief aredando, the school police. he is just fed up. he started the meeting by telling people who were there and the media he was going to be throwing people under the bus tonight. and then he certainly did that. listen to some of what he said at the meeting.

>> since that day the colonel has continued to, whether you want to call it a lie, leak, excuse me, lie, leak, mislead, or misstate information in order to distance his own troopers and rangers from the response. not one report, not one thing up there in the state today did you hear about what his dps officers were doing in that hallway or in that deal. not one. all you heard about was the local police department and the school district police department. but not the other eight agencies that were there. >> reporter: don, he is complaining that all of the blame is being placed on the uvalde police, on the school chief, and he feels that is something that is unfair. he is also complaining because he feels he is not getting any information. he claims he is frustrated by the da, by state officials, by even the governor who all promised they were going to help

him get information on this investigation. he says it is enough. they are not providing him any information and have told him not to speak about this and he's just had it. keep in mind this is a mayor who sat at the table with the governor and the police chief and the head of the dps just days after the shooting, really getting these briefings and talking to the media. now all of a sudden he has turned on all of them. >> this is coming after the department of public safety laid out a new timeline for the shooting saying officers were on hand just three minutes after the shooter entered the building. what did we learn? just three minutes after. it took them that long. but go on. >> don, the point today for the head of dps who is running this investigation, to finally come out after weeks and weeks of not giving any updates, saying that there was enough fire power there, enough -- there were enough police officers to storm through the classroom, to

neutralize the gunman, he said they were there within three minutes and that was enough time, you know, also the other thing we've heard so much about was this door. was it locked? was it open? could police have broken the door down? what we learned today is that no one even went to the door to see if it was locked. no one checked the doorknob, turned it to see if they could open the door. had they simply done that, with the head of dps, what he said is they would have been able to open the door. it wasn't locked. the whole notion the door was locked just isn't true. they also had tools they needed to break the door down. we are starting to get more and more information about certainly the failures by the police there. >> thank you very much. appreciate that. a tough warning. the risk of recession is on the rise. what does economist paul krogman think? he joins me next.

a stark warning tonight about the nation's economy. goldman sachs saying risk of recession in the u.s. is rising. they announced the 30% probability that we're going to see recession, enter recession over the next year. president biden says a recession is not inevitable. lots to discuss with the "new york times" columnist paul krogman. good evening and thanks so much for joining us. we appreciate it. let's talk about inflation, energy prices, more aggressive

fed for the reason behind the rising recession risk. the treasury secretary and president both say a recession is not inevitable. what do you think? >> it's not inevitable. it's a pretty good chance we'll have some kind of recession but there are recessions and recessions. a mild recession is fairly likely. basically the economy needs to be cooled down. this is not high precision. this is not science. so can the fed cool it down a little bit too fast so we get a couple quarters of economic shrinkage and it's called a recession. that might happen. it is really not a serious issue. the chances of a really bad recession, 2008 recession or a 1981 recession are really pretty small. but some kind of recession is definitely possible. >> what happens, paul, when the country is worried and fearful about the economy? does belief in a looming recession actually will it into existence? is that a real thing?

>> so far not much sign of that. mostly it is not the consumer. mostly what is happening is that people are expecting, markets are expecting the fed to keep on hiking interest rates it controls which is being reflected really strongly in the interest rates that matter for real decisions. mortgage rates are way up. so housing is clearly taking a tumble. business spending is hurting. so, you know, this is all fairly standard stuff. this is like a 2001 or 1991 type recession where some tightening is, by the fed, translating into a slowdown, which may or may not be a steep enough slowdown to be called a recession. you're hearing a lot of panic out there and it does not appear to be justified by any of the numbers i can see. >> you talked about the fed and the housing, so let's talk more about housing now.

during the pandemic home prices shot up nearly nationwide. do you expect things to cool down as these mortgage rates climb? >> well, sure. i mean, this is actually where, what the fed mostly does, where does the rubber meet the road? where does what jay powell does affect the real economy? the main point of contact is housing. that policy affects very short term interest rates, which then you know goes through a chain of events and ends up determining mortgage rates, which does affect the demand for housing. and while there is probably some underlying, more working from home, people want bigger spaces. there are underlying reasons for housing demand to be up. it is also true money has been very cheap and it is not going to be quite as cheap over the next year or two. so we're going to be seeing at least a slowdown and probably some fall in housing prices. >> how high do you expect interest rates to actually get and for how long, paul?

>> i think it's -- i'm thinking more like the 3% or thereabouts. straws in the wind. it looks to me like the fed, people's expectations of what the fed is going to do are starting to look like overkill. they did need to tap on the brakes but looks like they're tapping harder than is probably going to be necessary. there are already hints that, you know, even though the headline inflation numbers are up, retailers are now sitting on lots of unsold inventory, discounts are starting to appear, so i think we'll be seeing interest rates going up but nothing that is going to look by historical standards like high interest rates and then they'll probably come back down again. >> okay. so then -- back down again but how long? is there any way to predict that? >> well, yeah. this is one of those, you know, i would say a year and a half plus or minus two years, right? >> okay. >> so this is really, really not

an exact science. there are so many slipping points in the analysis. >> well, listen. i was thinking five years or so. look at what happened, you know, with the housing market in 2007 and so it took that long. you don't think it is going to be that long. okay. good. >> if you're those are terrible precedents. we are not nearly in the kind of trouble we were in in either case. >> great, great. let's talk about gas prices, paul. president biden is thinking about implementing the federal gas tax holiday. that temporarily suspends the 18.3-cent per gallon tax on gas. do you think that would actually help or is it more of a stunt? >> it's -- look, i mean, i'm very sympathetic to the administration wanting to be seen doing something. but it is pretty much a stunt. i mean, the -- at this point, first of all, gas prices are mainly determined by world markets over which we have no control. price of oil is -- vladimir

putin has a lot more influence on that than joe biden does. and we actually -- we have limited refinery capacity. if you cut the tax on gas and people try to buy more gas, we don't actually have the refineries to produce that extra gas, so, this is -- i was kind of sympathetic to the idea of a gas cut tax earlier this year, but not in the summer, not when the refineries are running flat out. so, it's -- but you know, i -- i suspect that the main purpose here is just to be seen doing something and maybe force republicans to go on the road as voting against it. >> yeah. paul, thank you. i appreciate you joining. >> sure, take care. we'll be right back.

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we are looking ahead to the next hearing of the january 6th committee with three high-ranking doj officials who refused to support the then-president's baseless claims of voter fraud. jeffrey rosen, former acting attorney general, stephen angle, former assistant attorney general for the office of legal counsel. the hearing starts at 3:00 p.m. thursday. thanks for watching. our coverage continueses. (♪ ♪)

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