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individuals in a number of states, including the chairman of the georgia republican party. david schaffer is his name. he's said to have played a central role in organizing the slate of fake electors from georgia and coordinated the effort with the former president's campaign. we'll have more of that in a moment. we'll also talk to jocelyn benson tonight. she's the michigan secretary of state. she spoke about how the election fraud conspiracies fueled by the former president ended up with angry protesters just outside her house, screaming. and later, the school's place chief in uvalde, texas, put on leave. i'll have the latest on the police response to the robb elementary school shooting. we start with those justice department subpoenas and our chief congressional correspondent manu raju. what more do we know about these subpoenas? >> this is a significant escalation by the justice department, which is investigating this fake elector scheme and has been focused on lower level republicans up until this point. but our colleagues have now learned there has been a subpoena issued for david schaffer. he's the republican party chairman in georgia. he also played a significant role, central role, in

coordinating with the trump campaign over its efforts to try to find these so-called fake electors that would try to deny joe biden an electoral victory when the joint session of congress met on january 6th to count the votes from each state. we also are learning there were several other states that were subpoenaed by the department of justice. individuals involved with that effort, not just georgia but also michigan and pennsylvania. those three states are states that donald trump lost, a sign here that this probe that lawmakers on capitol hill have called for to go at a quicker pace is broadening. the question is how broad and what will come of it, anderson. >> why has the committee postponed next week's hearings? >> there is what one democratic congressman, jamie raskin, told me earlier today, a quote, deluge of new evidence. they're citing a number of new developments that have come up

over the last several days, including subpoena footage from a documentary filmmaker alex holder, british filmmaker who had followed around ivanka trump and had exclusive interviews with donald trump on and around january 6th. and they have -- they're meeting with him behind closed doors tomorrow and, anderson, they also said they have new information from the national archives, as well as new tips that have come in through their tip line that they are trying to run down. so, the committee is reassessing how it plans to present this new information and how much of it will come out, so, ultimately, anderson, there were expected to be hearings that would wrap up next week, now those will be pushed into july. >> earlier in our last hour we played the moment you asked senator ron johnson about the fake elector controversy today. he clearly didn't see eager to talk to up. has he had any more to say? >> in fact, we asked him today whether or not he in fact asked his aide any more information about this. he told me yesterday he had no information, no idea who was

providing these fake electors to his office in which he would try to provide to mike pence on january 6th, 2021, if pence had agreed. he said he had no idea who that person was. he told our colleague ted barrett today he wasn't going to ask anymore questions about it, because he called it a nonstory. when asked whether or not he looked inside that envelope that included information about fake electors, he said, no, i don't believe i did. so, anderson, a lot of questions about why he accepted information that was not vetted, says he doesn't know where it came from, says it may have come from a house intern initially that ended up in his chief of staff's hand and made the offer to go to the vice president of the united states just before a joint session of congress. no real explanation from the senator and he's also very clear, he doesn't want to get to the bottom of it. >> i'm sorry, this is just ridiculous. this is the lamest thing i've ever heard. an intern forwarded a phony slate of electors to ron

johnson's office and his chief of staff without consulting ron johnson approached the vice president's staffer on the most important day probably in the vice president's career in a critical day in american history with fake electors. and on top of that, ron johnson says he still doesn't know and he's not going to ask any questions of anyone in his office about how this happened? i mean -- just in terms of office management, wouldn't you want to figure out how it was possible that some unnamed intern is able to pass along a document to your chief of staff who then directly tries -- i mean, it's insane. >> yeah, you know, he also said that he did -- the chief of staff did the right thing, even though he didn't exactly know who was behind this effort. >> but he doesn't -- he doesn't know what the chief of staff did, but he did the right thing and he's not going to look into it anymore. i mean, it's amazing. manu raju, i don't know how you do what you do. i appreciate it though. thank you. much of tuesday's hearing dealt with the intimidation tactics and threats of violence

state election officials faced after conspiracies promoted by the former president. now, one of those who spoke to the january 6th committee is michigan secretary of state jocelyn benson, who had angry protesters outside her house screaming at her, alleging all sorts of things, video of which was shown during the hearing. >> stop the steal! stop the steal! >> you have a threat to us! >> you're a threat to democracy! you're a threat to free and honest elections! >> we love america! we love our rights and our freedom! >> joined now my michigan secretary of state jocelyn benson. also cnn legal analyst andrew mccabe, former deputy director of the fbi. secretary benson, the video of people protesting outside your home, i don't care what side of the political aisle somebody is on, the idea of protesters going outside their home screaming at them in the middle of the night just seems ridiculous to me. it obviously can't even capture the full scope of what it must have felt like to actually have

that happen to you. what is that? how do you describe that? >> as i said to the committee, the uncertainty, everything that unfolded minute by minute, we didn't know what was going to happen next. for a full 45 minutes, all that stood between my family and those on the street was one neighborhood security guard. it wasn't just my house. it was my neighbors who also have kids in the middle of the night, hearing these things shouted outside their windows. it was terrifying. it was terrifying. but at the same time, i also vividly remember feeling -- recognizing that these folks, they weren't protesting me as a person, they were protesting our elections, our democracy, the will of the people in the state of michigan and through that recognition, i found strength to, you know, keep doing my job, but -- and make it through that scary moment, but it wasn't easy and it's something even hearing the videos and the sound, it's still -- it's unnerving to recall.

>> and andrew, can any legal action be taken against people making threats in support of the former president's election lies? does it depend on the state or some of the threats, for example, the one that congressman kinzinger disclosed in new threats, talking about executing his family or executing other members of the january 6th committee. is that a federal matter? >> you certainly can't threaten a member of congress. that alone would make it a federal matter. you can't threaten people with acts of violence really anywhere. there's all kinds of federal but even more importantly state laws that that might violate. the sensitive thing in this circumstance, which is horrific -- and i can only imagine how disturbing it was having myself been the target of some -- certainly not that bad but some activity kind of right out in the street in front of my house at different times. i understand how terrible that is. but because it inextricably involves political speech,

authorities have to be very careful about limiting what could be considered lawful protest in a public space. you know, you have first amendment protected activity. you have freedom of association. so, there are some sensitive constitutional issues here. that doesn't give people the right to make a massive scene in front of someone's house in a neighborhood late at night. there's -- there can be local ordinances against, you know, noises and things like that that could come into play. so, it's a very kind of complicated analysis for law enforcement on the ground responding to an incident like that. >> secretary benson, wait to ask you about these new subpoenas from the department of justice regarding the fake electors. we saw this in michigan. what are the questions you have? we want to play this video from outside the capitol of michigan when people who were claiming to be electors were trying to get into the building which is just -- i mean, it's worth watching. take a look. >> all the electors are inside.

>> all 16 electors have been checked in. they're already here. >> you the gop electors -- >> these are the rest of the electors. >> i mean, it's ludicrous and almost comical, seeing that, but this is really serious. these are -- this was a scheme, you know, that we're learning more and more about. do you think the country fully grasps just how dangerous and crazy this whole thing was? >> i hope so. i think that's, you know, part of what the truth and the granular details that the committee hearings are unveiling is meant to accomplish. i mean, this was not a hypothetical idea. this was an actionable plan to physically disrupt the electoral process and subvert the will of the people in michigan, which was clear and unequivocal. the second thing to note is that these are folks, including the people outside my home, they're motivated by a lie, by misinformation, by falsehoods that have been told of them by people trying to, again, subvert the will of the people and overturn the results of a legitimate election.

it wasn't just people were upset about the results. they were acting on a lie. and we have to remember when we continue to hear candidates lie today, that that can transform into these actionable plans to overturn an election and threaten election officials. >> appreciate it. thank you. more to come on the hearings, including the man who wasn't there, pat cipollone, the former president's white house counsel has refused to testify before the committee even after a plea by republican member liz cheney. we'll talk about what he may know. and whether he would ever testify. later, the embattle d schoo police chief in uvalde, texas, no longer in charge. we'll have a live report from texas when we come back. our clients come to us with complicated situations that occur in their lives. for them it's the biggest milestone, the biggest accomplishment, the sale of a business,

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hybrid work is here. it's there. it's everywhere. but for someone to be able to work from here, there has to be someone here making sure everything is safe. secure. consistent. so log in from here. or here. assured that someone is here ready to fix anything. anytime. anywhere. even here. that's because nobody... and i mean nobody... makes hybrid work, work better. one of the biggest moments of tuesday's hearing involves someone who wasn't there, the former president's white house council, pat cipollone. at theened of the hearing, vice chair of the committee republican liz cheney appeared to speak directly to him about

why they wanted him to testify. >> the american people have not yet heard from mr. trump's former white house counsel, pat cipollone. our committee is certain that donald trump does not want mr. cipollone to testify here. indeed, our evidence shows that mr. cipollone and his office tried to do what was right. they tried to stop a number of president trump's plans for january 6th. today and in our coming hearings, you will hear testimony from other trump white house staff explaining what mr. cipollone said and did, including on january 6th. but we think the american people deserve to hear from mr. cipollone personally. he should appear before this committee, and we are working to secure his testimony. >> joined by cnn chief analyst jeffrey toobin and author carl bernstein, author of "chasing history: a kid in the newsroom."

jeffrey, can cipollone refuse to testify? is it entirely his decision or is it -- he was white house counsel. can he just say there was executive privilege? >> as a practical matter, it is his decision. he is not a private lawyer, so there is not attorney/client privilege the way there is for a private lawyer. executive privilege can be gotten around. but what i mean by as a practical matter is, there's no time to litigate this. even if the committee wanted to subpoena him and then force him to testify, the clock would run out. so, this is really entirely up to cipollone. and it sounds like he's just not going to do it. >> carl, how realistic do you think it is that he would agree to testify even with this public cajoling by liz cheney? >> the committee knows from those closest to cipollone from his aides an awful lot of what cipollone would say and are extremely damning because what the committee has been able to do is put together evidence.

now the same is happening in the justice department of a massive conspiracy before, during, and after january 6th, from the president, from his closest aides. and cipollone is aware of what happened. and he can provide a dramatic picture on camera in the hearing room of what happened. they've got a lot of this evidence already from his aides. but they want him in the room. and also the meaning of the testimony thus far is an airtight case. might not get donald trump indicted, but it sure shows that his aides were complicit in this conspiracy to keep the vote from becoming real and joe biden being the dually elected president of the united states. >> if pat cipollone was trying to do the right thing in trying to stop some of this stuff, why wouldn't he testify? would it be a business decision? he wants to continue in maga world getting clients? >> that may be part of it. he may be worried about the

privilege issue. he may feel that since others have talked about what he's done -- remember jared kushner said, oh cipollone was always whining about -- >> resigning. >> -- threatening to resign. he may feel like his story is out there and he doesn't have to exacerbate his fight with the president by telling it himself. and you know, donald trump does not have people immediately around him turn on him. i mean, i don't know whether it's fear. but if you look at his history, the people closest to him do not turn on him. and that's one reason why he's never actually been indicted. here, mark meadows didn't turn on him. rudy giuliani didn't turn on him. and cipollone hasn't turned on him. these are the people who could probably do him the most damage, but they haven't done it yet. >> which is interesting, carl, given, i mean, the former president's -- what he has shown over the course of his life is

he has no loyalty to anybody who has served him well if he, on a whim, decides that they no longer suit his needs or if he feels it's in his best interest to throw them under the bus. >> there's great fear of donald trump in the republican party because members of the republican party have been craving in not telling what they know about donald trump. look at the wife of mitch mcconnell, who resigned on january 7th because of what she had seen happening on january 6th. mcconnell knows what happened. mcconnell knows a lot of this. the republican leadership and the republicans in congress are afraid of donald trump, that he will turn on them, as we've seen in some of these elections and some of these primaries. he has enormous strength, but he also has a party whose members have been craven and beholden to him no matter how authoritarian, demagoguic, illegal his acts have been.

that may be starting to crumble a little bit on the inside, as it becomes more evident to mcconnell and others that this is a criminal president of the united states who was engaged in a criminal conspiracy to stop the american people from choosing their president. it's interesting to see when mccarthy, kevin mccarthy, and mcconnell may take a turn. and let's take a look at elaine chao, his wife and what she did on the 7th of january in resigning and engaged in discussions of invoking the 25th amendment to the constitution because of doubt about the stability of the president of the united states. >> jeff -- >> carl, could i just say four words? don't hold your breath for those folks turning on him. i see the opposite. they have decided to make their peace with donald trump. and mccarthy, all he wants to do is be speaker. and he knows the route is, don't make donald trump angry. >> it's more complicated than that, i think. and we'll see in the coming

days. but you're right, jeff, that this is a very difficult thing for mcconnell or mccarthy to do. at the same time, they know the cards are falling a very different way than they thought at the beginning of this investigation. >> we shall see. jeff toobin, carl bernstein, thank you very much. up next, breaking news on the uvalde school police chief. who authorities say was responsible for the long delay before police went in and actually killed the shooter. plus, randi kaye speaks with the new mexico sheriff who says he would never implement a red flag law in his county that would block certain people deemed safety risks from owning deemed safety risks from owning firearms. when you pass by your cable box? if the answer is yes... who you gonna call? directv stream. now save $30 over 2 months. the day of the heart attack, i was scared. i didn't know what to do. seeing my daughter have a heart attack, it shook me. aspirin helps reduce the chance of another heart attack by 31%. be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen.

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after weeks of scrutiny over law enforcement's response during the robb elementary shooting, uvalde school district police chief pedro arredondo has been placed on leave. the school district superintendent said he placed arredondo on leave due to the lack of charity that remains, includingen known details from the investigations. victims' families are still waiting and desperate for answers. >> everything that's coming out, everything that we're finding out, it's just getting harder and harder by the day. and we have to speak for all these children, all these families who have to -- we have to make things right. we need to get down to the bottom of everything that has happened and find out the truth. >> joining me now from texas is shimon prokupecz. shimon, what more do we know about this guy, chief arredondo

being placed on leave, because he's been obviously avoiding you and answering questions. he gave one interview. now he's placed on leave. but he's still on the city council, and they seem to be standing by him. >> right. he's still on the city council, but he -- they voted on something last night regarding him on the city council whether or not to give him a leave of absence. and they denied that. they denied a leave of absence for him at the city council. so, that means that he's going to have to start showing up if he wants to continue serving on the city council. at one point, if he stops showing up, they can vote him off the city council. certainly significant for the school to make this move, the superintendent announcing they're putting him on administrative leave. and simply, anderson, after what went on here yesterday in texas senate committee, where the head of the department of public safety just in devastating fashion really laid out this minute by minute, play by play of what went on inside that hallway for more than an hour.

the head of dps saying basically the chief made every excuse not to go inside that classroom, really just baffled and confused as to why he didn't act sooner. he said that yesterday, the head of dps, it should have only taken three minutes. in three minutes they could have gone in and killed the gunman, calling it an abject failure. after all of this, of course today we get the news from the school that they're placing the chief on leave. and ultimately what i sense is that they want the chief to resign on his own so that they don't have to vote, the school board doesn't have to vote to force him out, basically. >> so, i mean, it was startling to hear, you know, finally some facts and information and to learn, you know, that the door may not have been locked at all and they waited for a key, that they had shields early on, that they had long rifles early on, that they had enough people, enough gun power to kill the

shooter and that they all just waited. i mean, again, it is so disturbing and damning, the incompetence and whether it's just the incompetence of this one chief who made this call or -- i mean, i don't even know what it would be because any law enforcement personnel in this country by now knows how you go after an active shooter. >> right, and it's infuriating sitting here having to listen to this, certainly for the families. members of the senate committee who, you know, at times describe this as maddening, upsetting. you can tell when people are really, really upset yesterday as they were listening to this testimony. it's just so confusing, because no one understands why he didn't do more. the door -- you mentioned that door. anderson, all they had to do was go to the door, turn that doorknob, that handle, and the door would have opened and they would have been able to go in and kill him. they have all the equipment to do it. >> right. and all that talk early on, i

mean, really from the first day of the shooting about the gunman barricading himself in the classroom, that wasn't true. >> right. and that's why we kept asking. remember at every press conference, every moment that we had, we kept asking the police, explain how he was barricaded. at one point i asked, really was the door locked? how was the door locked? no one had answers. it took a while but we're starting to get answers here, anderson. >> you've done great work, shimon prokupecz. appreciate it. we'll keep after it. so-called red flag laws have been a focus in the gun debate. the newly unveiled bipartisan gun safety bill on capitol hill includes $750 million for crisis intervention programs which could be used to implement and manage red flag programs. the red flag laws are aimed at keeping guns out of the hands of people who may pose a threat to themselves or others. not only reduce killings of others but suicides, as well. cnn's randi kaye went to new mexico to speak with a sheriff

who is pushing back against them. here's her report. >> just let me get it on the record. would you implement the red flag law in your county? >> no. >> reporter: in sierra county, new mexico, the sheriff is refusing to use the red flag law in his state. he calls it ineffective and unworkable. >> i can tell you right now, a temporary restraining order issued to an individual that says you can voluntarily turn your firearms in in 48 hours is not going to be adhered to at all. >> reporter: that's where this sheriff takes issue with the law. new mexico's red flag law known as the extreme risk firearm protection order act, does not allow law enforcement to seize someone's weapons outright. instead, it gives an individual 48 hours to voluntarily relinquish their firearms to law enforcement after being served. >> how is allowing an individual self-compliance with an order who is not thinking correctly, how is that saving the community? how is that in any way, shape, or form solving the problem? >> reporter: in some cases, that individual will turn in their

weapon, right? >> i doubt it. not if the individual had it in his mind that they were going to go perpetrate a mass shoot something where. >> reporter: but why not at least try? >> i'm going to go after an inanimate object but i'm going to leave the individual who is allegedly in crisis, i'm going to leave him alone and let him cool down on his own. makes no sense whatsoever. >> reporter: sheriff hamilton argues that giving someone 48 hours to turn in their weapons will only cause them to move up the timeline for whatever crime they may be planning. but you don't know that for sure so why not serve the order? >> i do know that for sure. i have had 28 years dealing with the criminal mind out there. and i'm going to tell you, no red flag law in any way, shape, or form is going to change a criminal's mind that is dead set on committing such an atrocity as a mass shooling. >> reporter: but sheila lewis with new mexicans to prevent gun violence says the sheriff has it all wrong. >> there has not been a reported

case of somebody running out to commit a violent crime in that 48-hour period because they were served with the order. >> reporter: what does tend to happen in that 4-hour period? >> they bring their guns in to law enforcement and they go to court. >> reporter: with new mexico's red flag law, after a person is ordered to turn over their guns, there's a ten-day cooling off period and then a court hearing. a judge will determine if those guns should be returned to the individual or removed and for how long. after the red flag law took effect here in 2020, it's only been used nine times. in five of those cases, the guns were removed from the individual for one year. in the other four cases, they were returned to the owner. >> this is a stop gap measure that can remove the firearm from a challenging situation. >> reporter: representative joy garrett cosponsored the bill that became new mexico's red flag law. what do you think is the danger in the case of sierra county, where the-is not going to implement this law? >> i think the danger is that

there may be a life that can be saved, or many lives that can be saved. >> reporter: like the life of alexia rielle. the 16-year-old was gunned down with her cousin in a different county last month in a murder/suicide by her mother's former boyfriend, who had allegedly been sexually assaulting her. the red flag law was in place, and this restraining order shows he possessed two guns. but the red flag law wasn't used to have those guns removed. the county sheriff's office told us they didn't red flag the suspect since they had no information he posed an immediate danger of causing personal injury to himself or others with a firearm. >> the red flag law would have taken the firearm out of the hands of an extremely upset individual, would have taken the gun out of the equation and prevented a murder and a suicide. >> reporter: and you believe that girl would be alive today? >> i do believe that girl would be alive. >> reporter: but sheriff hamilton still prefers to lean

on the state's emergency mental health law, which he says allows authorities to immediately take a person into custody for mental health treatment. that is not what we want to do. we don't want to seize people. we want to seize the firearm. >> reporter: sheriff hamilton says the red flag law has no provision to treat the individual who is dealing with a mental crisis. >> i would much rather that individual be receiving mental treatment at one of the local mental facilities than to rely on that individual to have some kind of a revelation that he now wants to start abiding by the law. >> and randi joins us now. you know, i certainly defer the sheriff on his expertise over his long law enforcement career, but he's talking about a criminal mindset. he's not taking into account the huge number of suicides used with weapons. and studies show any kind of intervention with somebody who has suicidal ideation can be successful and they may not do it again. so, if somebody is in a mental health crisis, i don't understand his aversion to

asking them to bring in -- to remove their guns from their home. many people probably would do that. >> reporter: yeah, i think his -- he's very concerned about this 48 hours that's voluntary, anderson. he just doesn't believe that people are going to turn in their weapons, whether it's something that they're considering -- whether it's suicide they're considering or it's some type of mass shooting. he pointed out a case where there was a suicidal individual and his deputies, he told us, went and took that person into custody instead of just taking his -- the means that he was planning to use to harm himself. so, he still believes that whether it's a criminal situation -- a crime that somebody is trying to commit or potentially harming themselves, he still believes that this mental health law is the way to go. and he really believes that there should be some type of psych evaluation in the first 24 hours when somebody is flagged with this red flag law.

he would like to see the red flag law and the mental health state law merged actually because there would be a better evaluation early on, anderson. but the state right now, anderson, has no plans to merge that legislation, although the representative we spoke with said she is open to it. >> mental health evaluation also sounds like a very good idea. randi kaye, appreciate it. thank you. coming up, the supreme court could release an abortion rights decision as soon as tomorrow that if lines up with the draft opinion leaked back in may would overturn the landmark roe v. wade case. how could that affect the upcoming election? that's next. look and feel bettr with cosentyx. don't use if you're allergic to cosentyx. before starting get checked for tuberculosis. an increased risk of infection, some serious and a lowered ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor about an infection or symptoms or if you had a vaccine or plan to. tell your doctor if your crohn's disease symptoms develop or worsen. serious allergic reaction may occur. best move i've ever made. ask your dermatologist about cosentyx®.

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♪ ♪ how's he still playin'? aspercreme arthritis. full prescription-strength. reduces inflammation. don't touch my piano. kick pain in the aspercreme. the supreme court today announced they're adding days that they'll release their rulings from this session. the most anticipated one of course is the challenge to roe vs. wade. last month a leaked draft supreme court opinion led to a wave of demonstrations in the high court across the country. with the added days, we could learn as early as tomorrow if that draft opinion is indeed the court's ruling. if it is, it would be probably an earthquake is fair to say for abortion rights advocates. and a generational achievement for abortion opponents. so, as we wait for that decision, we wanted to get a sense of where the country is on

abortion right now. for that we turn to our favorite and only senior data reporter, harry went enten. what is the overall picture of views on abortion in this country? >> i mean, look, the overwhelming majority of americans support roe v. wade. a quinnipiac poll out today, 60% of americans support roe v. wade. it's not just that. the vast majordy of democrats, near 90%. the vast majority of independents, near 60%. even near 40% of republicans support roe v. wade. there are just no other issues in which nearly 40% of republicans agree on something and 90% of democrats agreen something. so, there's very clear majority support for roe v. wade nationally. but of course, if roe v. wade gets overturned, right, this goes back to the state level. so, i think it's important to know how the states fall. and what we see is, most states, in fact, you see the majority of voters or the plurality of voters, i believe it's 34 states, say that they do, in fact, support abortion to be legal. but there is in fact 16 states,

most of those in the southeast, but there are some of those riding up into the great plains states, where, in fact, voters do not believe that abortion should be legal. so, it shouldn't be surprising if roe v. wade for, in fact, to get overturned that you would see a number of states with the voters backing them, in fact, try to limit abortion rights significantly. >> and how, just in terms of the politics of this, the potential overturning roe v. wade, how would that effect the midterm elections? >> well, this is one of those interesting things where i think when that leak first came out, we thought, okay, there might be a massive change in the polling -- didn't happen. it did not happen. even though most americans support roe v. wade. in fact, if you look at the generic congressional ballot, what you see is republicans held a three-point lead before the leak and after the leak now, what is it, it's the exact same three points. >> so, that's not an issue people vote on? >> it does not necessarily seem like an issue that people vote on and what more than that, we know is that when, you know, you ask about enthusiasm, which i think is key, right, because midterms are not just about who

is going to, you know, how people are going to vote, it's whether they're going to vote at all. and we see the enthusiasm, republicans had an edge before the leak and still have that edge now post the leak. >> that's interesting. so -- we'll see. >> i mean, we're going to see, but here's the other thing i'll point out for you, right? you pointed out what people are necessarily going to vote on, right? and if you look, most people are going to vote on the economy. it's the number one issue. abortion is way down on the list. it's number three at this particular point, i do believe. >> and gun violence is at 17. >> right. 17, but right now, economy at around 50%. the vast majority, and that's why i don't think we're seeing people really change their minds at this particular point. >> harry, thank you so much. >> that's what i do. >> you're the data guy. that's what they say. >> that's what you say. coming up, the war in ukraine on the cusp of hitting the four-month mark. up next, i'll talk to a founding member of the anti-putin process group pussy riot for her thoughts on the future of

ukraine and russia.

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the war in ukraine is about to hit the four month mark and with it a grim assessment. this may be the toughest week of fighting. ukraine defended that city and steel plant for weeks before finally falling to russia in may. now many observers wondering how much longer ukraine can tin to fend off the deadly grind of vladimir putin's war. one woman who knows the wrath of vladimir putin first-hand is a founding member of the russian protest group. she was sentenced to two years in prison after an anti-putin performance. when you look at the war in ukraine obviously there are huge failures of russian forces and incredible victories by ukrainians early on in the fight for kyiv and other places. russia is obviously having more success in parts of the donbas right now.

what do you see -- what do you see vladimir putin's position, how do you see it right now? is he stronger than ever in russia? >> i don't feel like that. a lot of persons divide this war and some people talk about two wars. so the first war putin has lost because he wanted to capture kyiv really quickly. >> which they thought they could do in 12 hours or so and obviously did not. >> and there are multiple that try to capture what russians were talking to each other

about, and they were totally sure they were going to be able to capture kyiv. so they lost that war and they completely had to change not just their strategy but also people who head the war. so it's basically completely different operation, completely different war. and also goals that putin, the goals they announce in russian propaganda completely different as well. nobody actually understood what actually they're talking about. >> we talked one time a while ago and you were saying you had members of your own family in russia who believed what vladimir putin was saying about the war. is that still the case? i mean they still believe that? >> they still do believe that, yeah. they still believe everything being told to them on the tv. but now as a colleague of mine reported says imagine if you guys were able to watch just fox

news for the last 20 years what would happen to your mind. we all know about how flexible our mind is and how easily it's influenced or changed by things like cambridge analytica and russians were mentioning united states politics. so imagine living under putin's oppressive rule and looking to just russian propaganda. >> when alexei navalny, who i believe you're friends with. >> he's my friend since 2007. >> he's been moved to another prison. you were sent to a penal colony for two years. i can't imagine just the terror of the unknown of going there and then having two years of your life taken away from you for something you believe in, for something you do. for many people it's something unimaginable. what is it like to be in a

russian penal colony for two years for something you think about and speaking about? >> it's really important to keep talking about what's happening with alexei navalny. i think every fear a political prisoner has is to be forgotten. because you can't actually use your voice, and it's really difficult to communicate with the outside world. the government makes it hard and move you as far away from public eye as possible. what they've just done with alex alexei navalny, they move him from moscow so journalists won't follow him and his family as well. so the more we talk about him, the more we give hope not just to ourselves but also to him. because i think for him it's important for his voice to be amplified. another thing that really worries me right now that he was moved to this penal colony, and

i think partly he was moved there because russian authorities did not want to hurt and possibly murder navalny with their own hands, but they would rather it be done by hands of other prisoners, and this is something happening with the colony receiving death threats delivered to me not through hands of government officials themselves but through other prisoners who work for the administration. >> it's such a pleasure to talk to you and i hope to talk to you again soon. thank you so much. we'll be right back. this... is the planning effect. this is how it feels to know you have a wealth plan that covers everything that's important to you. this is what it's like to have a dedicated fidelity advisor looking at your full financial picture. making sure you have the right balance of risk and reward. and helping you plan for future generations. this is "the planning effect" from fidelity.

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the news continues. let's turn things over to don and don lemon tonight. don? >> anderson, thank you very much. this is don lemon tonight, and exclusive first look from footage from the documentary the january 6th committee is