try to ban guns in a place like central park or times square. madison square park, whatever the case may be. >> right. yeah. you can't even enforce such a thing. it is incredible. as you talk about gun legislation, passing, as limited as it may have been, then you've got this message change. >> bottom line here, more guns will be on the streets legally. gun advocates say because what happened. >> all right. jason carol, thank you very much. and thanks for joining us. ac 360 starts now. >> and good evening, i'm anderson cooper, along with my colleague in washington for a special two hour 360 looking at what was a truly extraordinary date of witness testimony and stunning new details revealed during the january 6 committee hearings. former top officials at the justice department offering details, sometimes moment by moment descriptions of private

phone calls and meetings demonstrating how the former president personally and continually tried to convince them to support his fraudulent claims about a stolen election. >> part of today's hearing focused on someone whose home was actually rated by federal investigators yesterday. former justice department official named jeffrey clark. we are going to have more on that right in just a moment. the committee's interest about clark has to do with the former presidents effort to install clark as acting attorney general so that clark could use the levers of the justice department to subvert joe biden's victory in the 2020 election. take a listen to this incredible moment recalled today of a white house meeting just days before january 6 involving jeffrey clark, today's witnesses, the white house counsel, and then president trump. clark had just explained his plan, and here's how white house counsel eric hirschman responded. a warning, now, some of the language is a little bit salty. >> i made the point to jeff

clark is not even confident to serve as the attorney general. he's never been a criminal attorney. he's never conducted a criminal investigation in his life. he's never been a trial jury. and he kind of retorted by saying, well, i've done a lot of very comp located appeals and civil litigation, environmental litigation, things like that, and i said, that's right. you're an environmental lawyer. how about you go back to your office, and will call you when there's an oil spill? and pat's ability weighed in at one point. i remember saying, you know, that letter that this guy wants to send, that letter is a murder suicide pact. it's going to damage everyone who touches it. >> today's hearing also provided evidence that directly link the former president to the effort to overturn the election. former acumen attorney general richard donahue, who you just heard also testified about a phone conversation he had with the former president during the transition. this is what he told the member of the committee who we'll

speak to later in the product. >> let's take a look at another one of your notes. you all said that mr. rosen said to mr. trump, doj can't and won't snap its fingers and change the outcome of the election. how did the president respond to that? >> he responded very quickly and said, essentially, that's not what i'm asking you to do. what i'm just asking you to do is say it was corrupt and leave the rest to be and the republican congressman. >> so let's now put up the notes where you put the president. he said, the president, the president said, just say the election was corrupt, and leave the rest to me and the republican congressman. so, mr. donoghue, that's a direct quote from president trump, correct? >> not an exact quote from the president, yes. >> perhaps the most dramatic moment of the testimony was what donoghue later said about december 2020 white house

meeting where he tried to explain to donald trump in great detail what would happen if trump removed then acting attorney general jeffrey rosen and tried to install jeffrey clark as attorney general to push discredited election fraud nonsense. >> this is in line with the president saying, well, i have to lose, and along those lines, he said, so suppose i do this. suppose i replaced him, jeff rosen, with him, jeff clark. what would you do? and i said, mr. president, i would resign immediately. i'm not working one minute for this guy who i just declared was completely incompetent. and so the president immediately turned to, to mr. engel, and he said, steve, you would resign, would you? and he said, absolutely, i would, mr. president. you leave me no choice. and i said, we are not the only ones. no one cares if we resign. if steve and i go, it's fine. it doesn't matter. but you're going to lose your

entire department. every single ag will walk out on you. your entire department leadership will walk out within hours, and i don't know what happened after that. i don't know what the united states attorneys are going to do. we have u.s. attorneys in districts across the country, and my guess would be that many of them would have resigned. and that would then have led to regulations across the department in washington, and i said, mr. president, within 24, 48, 72 hours, you could have hundreds and hundreds of resignations of the leadership of your entire justice department because of your actions. what's that going to say about you? >> we should point out that stop, that was, that stop the president's efforts to subvert the department of justice, to, to get the department of justice to say that the election was corrupt. however, it didn't stop the president and his attempted coup three days later, january 6. the president was out there in front of that crowd, repeating all the same lies

that all his members from the department of justice, except jeffrey clark, had told him were completely false. he was saying those things, the exact same lies, to that crowd, telling them to march on the capital. also today, the committee publicly stated the names of republican members of congress who actively sought pardons from the former president. we are going to get into that any moment. it is an extraordinary list. first want to discuss what we just heard. both former federal prosecutors also seen in. seen in political commentator alyssa fara, alyssa fara griffin. former president. jeff, i mean, this line, just say it was corrupt and leave the rest to me and the republican congressmen. there were so many extraordinary revelations that came out of today's testimony. >> that's the biggest one, because the issue about a criminal investigation of the president really comes down to

intent. what was his intent? was this a good faith effort to get to the facts of the election? did he really believe that he won and he was simply trying to get the votes counted? or was this just the use of whatever tool at his disposal to overturn an election that he lost? >> right. and the biggest tool is jeffrey clark, by the way. >> correct. >> in more ways than one. >> sorry. >> i've been here all week. >> the, but, but the, that comment suggests, in a very direct way, that he knows he's lost, and that all he wants to do is keep the balls in the air so that it can go to the house republicans who can, who can take, take over from that point. that is so devastating to trump. >> it also, his failure with the department of justice then shows you how awful january 6, i mean, as if it wasn't awful

enough, we now know, it was his failure to corrupt these guys. and now he's just knowingly spreading these lies. he is promoting violence in order to, as the last ditch effort to get his will. >> and that's why the hearings have been, i think, so impressive of the group, because you see the former president moving from audience to audience. the vice president's staff. he's trying to convince them and the vice president to overturn the election. he's trying to turn the people of the states, and arizona and georgia, to overturn the election. here, today's testimony was about getting the justice department to try to overturn the election. none of it having to do with him actually having won the election. all of it having him use the tools at his disposal in a corrupt way to get the things -- >> and laura coates, at one point, he tells donoghue that, clearly, they are not following things on the internet like he has. >> as if that's where you want to have your source of

information. you actually have the united states government contacting the italian government to figure out if there are satellites that are interrupting the use of our machines. >> an online conspiracy theory. >> a conspiracy theory. it was not difficult at one point promoting the notion that the chinese were using a smart thermostat to try to impact our election. these are absurd notions. but we look at what's happening. if i'm fanny willis in fulton county, georgia, i am doing back flips, because liz had made my case that much stronger. she leads it in georgia. and remember the dates here. january 2nd was that now infamous phone call with brad raffensperger. this oval office meeting happened the next day, january 3rd. so at the time, even if he hadn't known from all of the people, including bill barr, including vice president pence's counsel, including so many other -- certainly, after that call, he then goes to the department of justice, said, i want more of this.

and then after that and they are going to resign en masse, he goes, well, how about a truck full of these ballots? i mean, every turn, he wanted an army of yes-men, and he found one, unfortunately, on january 6. >> so what more do you need to prove intent? this is a president who went everywhere, and he was asking about every conspiracy theory that existed, whether it was satellites in italy or whether it was ballots in china, and at every juncture, he was rebuffed, particularly by the justice department, which were told, he became obsessed with the justice department. he becomes more and more and more manic. and what finally convinces him not to replace rosen with clark is rosen saying to him, you know, if you do that, and everybody leaves, and clark is providing over a graveyard, what does that say about you? and once he heard that, because, of course, it's all

about trump, once he heard that, he thought, oh, that would look pretty bad. >> there is an exception to it. if i'm wrong here. you don't have to have him saying, i intend for people to then do x, y, nz. you have to have a good faith belief that, actually, what you're doing is not violating the law. he's told at every juncture that what he's doing will violate the law, undermine the constitution, harmed the institutions as we know it. as you just articulate it. and so all these no sense, it's all showing you that he absolutely was aware that this is not -- >> what was the mood at the white house around this time? >> so i left december 4th, and at that time, i kind of had a sense that's were heading the wrong way. i openly said that. but i was struck by the sheer desperation in these final weeks. i mean, the unfounded, baseless, just crazy conspiracy theories that were being promoted by sitting members of congress, and then being raised to the, you know, acting

secretary of defense. it shows the president unwilling to give up power and desperate for any effort that he can pursue. it also those around him just going along with it. it's, today was by far the most damning hearing. i'm shocked to even think of what future hearings might include based on what we saw today. >> the last hearing just the other day was very emotional, and it was very personal, and he saw the personal cost to a number of honorable americans. this was equally dramatic, but in a whole other way, just how alarming it is. >> right. and if i may note, kathy was a close colleague of mine who is now getting push back by some of the members of congress who refused to testify under oath. testified under oath that multiple members of congress asked her, a staffer for the white house chief of staff, port reported to cover up their crimes. it's horrifying. >> member of the january six committee. what do you think was the single -- was there one most important piece of information that came out today? to me, i have a whole list of

them. >> i have a whole list as well. i mean, i think that, you know, the key focus of the committee with this hearing being the levers that he tried to pull at the department of justice, and adjust to what extent he went in order to try to influence people and replace jeff clark. people at the top by inserting jeff clark. that, and then, essentially, the principal that those other, such as rosen and donoghue had, to stand up and essentially say, we are not doing that , and if you do this and try to put him, we are all going to resign. so the impact that that had. and then, you know, secondly, another piece of it is, you know, this information about what other members of congress did. it's pretty straightforward. i think adam can figure said this especially during the hearing. if you don't request a parting, if you don't think you committed a crime, and the fact that, you know, we heard from witnesses under oath that this,

in fact, took place, you know, it's very damning, and it really confirms that whole thing, like, leave it up to me and the republican congressmen. who are the republican congress men? i think that what we learn from witnesses, that's all becoming even more clear than it was before. >> i remember, i think it's what he said to president zelenskyy in that phone conversation years ago when he was trying to strong-arm him, he said, just say you were going to launch an investigation into hunter biden. basically, he'll take it from there. him telling donoghue, just say the election is corrupt and leave it up to me and the republican congressmen to do the rest. >> it was very similar. just say it's corrupt, people will believe it. if we appoint a special prosecutor in the 11th hour here, that's is enough doubt in people's mind that he can then use that as cover to go forward with, you know, his next phase of the plan. >> former attorney general eric holder was quoted today as saying he called that a smoking gun. do you see it that way? >> you know, to me, it's not the only smoking gun that came out in today's hearing.

but, you know, definitely when we were asking the question of intent, i mean, there was a deliberate plan. and it was many levers of government. today we focus in on the department of justice. last hearing was about the different election officials and the state. and we are continuing to put those pieces together as we move forward in the hearing. so, you know, i think it'll paint a very clear picture by the end of our hearings about just what all of those levers were. >> also, so much from the people we heard from is that they were republicans who were very loyal to the president. many had been in the administration for the department of justice throughout the entire administration. while we heard the department of justice officials talking about how alarmed they were from the president's behavior, reporting they've also converted he never ordered them to break the law. do you agree with that, and how much does that impact merrick garland and the department of justice as they weigh charges? >> well, i can't comment, you know, from the department of justice and their perspective. that's not the purpose of this committee. it's a legislative committee. but what i would say is that, you know, the pressure was

clear. all indications were out there that, you know, he's willing to do anything, essentially wipe away the leadership within his department of justice and replace it with someone who was wholly unqualified to hold that position. and someone who was truly a loyalist. another thing that was shocking to me as well was this call to the department of defense that was talked about with cache patel. someone else who came in very late in the administration who had a role there. and so kind of trying to really see everywhere, there was someone, you know, in a role, or attempted to be put in a role, who can help them lament this plan. >> the idea of appointing cindy powell as a special counsel, i mean, is just, you can't make this up. i really appreciate it. thank you. >> thank you. >> joined now by cnn special correspondent jamie, dana bash, cnn's chris wallace, and henderson. dana, what you make of what congressman just said? >> well, she does kind of put it all together that the committee is putting it all together, connecting all of the dots, and really painting the

picture of what the former president was doing in a frantic, frenetically. both from congress's point of view, from the states point of view, all of the pieces of the federal government, particularly, today, obviously, was, was just remarkable. the way that these doj republican trumpet doj officials described it. i also thought it was really -- because so much of this is jaw- dropping, anyone of these issues could be, like, you know, a blaring headline in and of itself. but the pardon issue, particularly for these members of congress, is, is huge. because the -- and i should say they deny people like scott perry, they deny it. but you have people under oath saying that members of congress either requested individual pardons or blanket pardons for anybody involved in and around

january 6. >> yeah, i should note that congressman mo brooks released the letter that he sent to the white house, which was something along the lines of, you know, the crazy democratic socialists and liberal republicans are going to try to abuse the justice department, and go after us criminally, so you should offer blanket pardons to anybody who assigned on to that crazy amicus brief. i called it crazy, mo brooks didn't. for anybody who voted to disenfranchise the voters of pennsylvania and arizona. he said it's because of fear of what liberals might do. >> the committee had the receipts on mo brooks, so he had to find some excuse. scott perry came out today and denied it completely, said, but let's remember he would not come in and testify under oath. cassidy hutchinson did. just to emphasize something that dana mentioned, donald trump was relentless in this. that is the pattern we are seeing throughout these hearings, and i think what was so impressive today was the

system held because of these lawyers. conservatives, republicans, political appointees who the trump administration had put in. and they said no over and over and over again, and we saw how close it came. but they pulled democracy back from the brink. >> and chris, one of the most shocking things, although i don't think we've covered it all that much really, is donald trump pushing both the justice department and the department of homeland security to see the voting machines. >> right, which was something that michael flynn talked about at one point, rudy giuliani, the idea of seizing these voting machines. you know, there were two things that struck me about the hearings, hearing today. one, i think one of the reasons it was so powerful is, it's like a perfectly constructed play. all of this happens in 11 days, from december 23rd, when jeff rosen takes over as the acting attorney general, until september 3rd, i'm sorry, january 3rd, when they had that

crazy meeting in the oval office. it's literally up for grabs in front of his desk. who's going to be the attorney general? and you can see trump getting more and more agitated as he tries to get rosen and donoghue, the people who were in the office, to accept, and to say that the election is corrupt, and they refuse to do it. then finally he goes to jeff clark and he's taking about putting him in to say it. that's one thing. the second is the letter. the letter that he wanted somebody to send was to the justice department would declare that they had found significant concerns about the elections, and that they were insisting that the state, or suggesting that the state legislatures, and name alternate slates of electors to go to congress. think about that for a second. you get to january 6, i know what pencil said he was going to do. if you'd been presented in georgia and arizona and pennsylvania with a trump slate and a biden flight, who knows what happened? >> absolutely. there was a moment in the

hearing when we learned that the white house was prematurely referring to jeffrey clark is acting attorney general. take a listen here. >> white house call logs obtained by the committee show that by 4:19 p.m. on january 3rd, the white house had already begun referring to mr. clark as the acting attorney general. as far as the white house was concerned, mr. clark was already at the top of the justice department. >> that shows that if rosen and donoghue hadn't taken the stand, this would've happened. >> in the might of donald trump, encouraged by somebody like scott perry, introduces this white house to jeffrey clark, who isn't really known to this white house before. you have rudy giuliani saying, listen, we need somebody in that position who will do the president spitting. so the president finds jeffrey clark , who is willing to help the president stay in power and orchestrate this corrupt plan.

fascinating to see the, the department pushed back against him, and we see how close they came. i thought what was also really interesting was liz cheney's final thoughts, right? there is an attempt by this committee, obviously, to show the american public that trump knew that he lost. there is an attempt to change minds, change the hearts and minds, particularly of republicans. you have liz cheney, a republican on the committee saying directly to republicans, listen. these are republicans who are telling you trump knew that he lost. these are trump loyalists, people that he put in power, and you have to come to terms with the fact that he deceived you. that he abused your trust, and that is a fact. >> whether or not she actually changes hearts and minds of the people who are true believers, we'll see. >> they have to be watching is the issue. in, everyone. stay with us. we still have a lot more to discuss in it, including that raid we mentioned earlier at the home of jeffrey clark, the ally of donald trump, who was

at the center of what witnesses prescribed as an attempt to what denies the justice department. we have the latest on the separate federal investigation, and to what we are today. and later, the january 6 committee names names. we will name the same for you as our special coverage of the january 6 hearing continues. stay with us. after just 2 doses. skyrizi may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fig them. before treatment, your docto should check you for infections and tuberculosis. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms such as fever, sweats, chills, muscle aes, or coughs, or if you plan to, or recently received a vaccine. ♪ nothing is everything ♪ talk to your dermatologist about skyrizi. learn how abbvie could help you save.

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>> jeffrey clark, the man who almost became acting attorney general, was one of the main focuses of today's hearings. shortly before top officials from the trump era justice department told the committee today how they fought to stop clark from becoming acting attorney general as he tried to ram through his plan to overturn the election, we also learned that federal investigators just raided clark's home yesterday. our senior washington correspondent pamela brown is on capitol hill for us. pamela, what do we know about

this development? >> reporter: first of all, jake, this is a surprising twist here in the halls of congress just for this hearing, where testimony about jeff clark took center stage. what we know about this raid was it happened in the predawn hours on wednesday. it's part of the overall doj investigation into efforts to overturn the 2020 election results, according to multiple people familiar with the matter. and it happened on the same day the doj sent subpoenas to people involved in trump's push to send the ultimate slate of electors. now, we know that clark was central in that, and in trump's overall plan that he worked with trump, devise a plan for trump to put him in as the acting attorney general so that he could use the power of the justice department to overturn the election results. that was part of the evidence and testimony that was laid out here today. we reached out for an attorney to an attorney for clark, who didn't respond, but clark's

workplace, the center for renewing america, did send a statement, saying the new era of criminalizing politics is worsening in the u.s. yesterday. more than a dozen doj law enforcement officials searched jeff clark's house in a predawn rate, put him in the streets in his pajamas, and took his electronic devices, all because jeff saw fit to investigate voter fraud. now, we know that latter part, that last line there, is not the full story here, jake. again, as i laid out, it doj did investigate voter fraud. we heard that in the testimony today from these witnesses speaking under oath, saying they chased down the various voter fraud claims, and turned up empty. but despite that, jeffrey clark wanted to take it even further, using the power of doj allegedly to overturn the election results, jake. >> all right, pamela brown, thanks. let's talk about the raid more. chris, obviously, there was a lot of people investigating voter fraud. u.s. attorneys, justice department officials, elections officials. that's not what jeffrey clark is being about the can for. >> no, course not. we were today, in chapter and verses, obviously being investigated because he was pushing this idea that the

justice department should say that they had found evidence of fraud when they hadn't found evidence of fraud. i find the timing of this odd, because on the one hand, you say to yourself, well, gosh, this is been going on for a year and a half. we've known about jeffrey clark's involvement for a long time. this was thoroughly investigated by the senate judiciary committee. so why did it take them so long to get, you know, and was it that they decided to raid jeffrey clark has because he was going to be the subject of this big investigation during the day? but haven't talked to some attorneys today, it takes a lot to be able to raid. you've got to have, you've got to convince a magistrate that you need to go and raid the guys house, you need to convince them that address asking for the evidence, that he might destroy it. so, you know, it seems odd, a year and a half later, but apparently they have some pressing to evidence and reason for needing to raid his house. >> you might remember, just a few days ago, justice

department officials were complaining that the committee was not sharing transcript enough. it's possible, this is pure speculation by me, it's possible that the committee started handing over these, these transcripts. they knew that, i think donoghue, the acting deputy attorney general, was going to say that jeffrey clark was meddling in elections , which is a criminal activity. >> right. >> so maybe they just wanted to get ahead of it. they knew that this person -- i don't know. >> we -- >> is a former justice department official basically accused jeffrey clark of a crime today. >>. we don't know to the degree that this committee is cooperating with the doj. one of the reasons i haven't wanted to give some of these transcript up is because then they are subject to discovery. the doj is obviously conducting its own investigation of folks who were involved in and around january 6. but this was a surprise to the committee, apparently, that jeffrey clark, his home was raided, was clearly a surprise to jeffrey clark as well, who was out in

his pajamas. but what a stunning figure that jeffrey clark is, you know? this sort of environmental lawyer who thinks that he should assign to be the acting attorney general of, of the united states, and defraud american voters. >> he didn't think that. donald trump thought that. >> well, he thought it, too. >> he just went along with the plan. >> let me play some of former acting attorney general jeffrey rosen's testimony, where jeffrey clark told rosen he had taken over, and offered rosen a job to work for him. >> that sunday meeting, when he told me that he would be replacing me, he, he said he had asked to see me alone, because usually he met with me and mr. donoghue, because he thought it would be appropriate in light of what was happening to at least offer me that i could stay on as his deputy. i thought that was preposterous. i told him that was

nonsensical, and, and that i -- there's no universe where i was going to do that. to stay on and support someone else doing things that were not consistent with what i thought should be done. so i, i didn't accept that offer, if i can put it that way. >> i would've loved to be in that room to hear that. >> i mean, it just is really rich anecdote. it's been a long day today. anecdote. about how out of touch and audacious this guy was. that he could actually offer that, seemingly without any ironing or humor. like, he actually thought, well, if i get this job, when i get this job, because of what you put up earlier, because on the white house lawn, they artie called -- and the president, the then president, was clearly stunned that he had this intervention, which is basically what it was, by all other senior members of the

doj. >> so can i just throw some yiddish in here? i know some people who worked with, with jeffrey clark, and this is not to diminish the nefarious things that were going on, but he was described to me as sort of an absent- minded professor, and here's the yiddish. someone who would spill the soup on himself. this was not someone who was really into with -- >> can i just ask -- >> the guy who gets the soup spelled on him. >> oh. >> he's spelling it on himself. >> we appreciate the thoughts. stick around, we have much more to discuss.

>> listen to all the names brought up in video testimony by aides to the 45th president. >> was representative requesting a parting? >> believe so. a pardon that he was discussing, requesting, was as broad as you could describe. you mentioned nixon, i said nixon's pardon was never nearly that broad. >> mr. beckstead, talked about congressional pardon, but he never asked me for one. it was more for an update on whether the white house was going to pardon members of congress. mr. gummer asked for one as well. yes he did. no. i heard that she had asked for

a pardon. >> as was mentioned earlier in a statement seen, congressman mo brooks confirms to cnn that he sought a pardon. he shared an email in which he expressed concerns that democrats would abuse the judicial system, that's ironic. what sayeth he ask for a pardon. on twitter, congressman marjorie telegram denied the allegations against her, calling them gossip and lies, and guzman scott. we did a short time ago that he stand by his denial of seeking pardon for himself or others. griffin. if someone pleads the fifth in gord under oath, it's not necessarily an indication they've done something wrong, but several members of congress allegedly contacted an aide to the white house congress street ncaaf seeking pardon. at least they have something that they are concerned about. >> well, if you are asking then candidate trump, pleading the

fifth is enough to actually confirm your guilt. so the irony we are talking about it now at this point in time is very different. the idea of him seeing guilty more than 100 times in front of that committee, once is a red flag for an investigator to figure out why it is you're doing. so i hundred and 47 times. that's more than a red flag. the idea of actually saying and suggesting that you are not going to answer questions, you have the corroboration of other people saying here's what this person is doing, what they've done, and they've been sold, and as dana said, audacious in trying to do an end run around the acting attorney general. you heard from jeffrey rosen today saying, what do you mean you happened to be at the white house, jeffrey clark lexi without my permission, without my knowledge, for any reason, you're going around and doing these things, and all this is indicia that you know what you're doing is the wrong thing. >> mo brooks sent an email to -- asking for all-purpose pardons. for any possible

thing. >> right, which -- >> is that a thing? >> it could be done. the president, the president, he can only pardon you for federal crimes. he can pardon you for state crimes. one of the things i think we've learned in these hearings is that the possibility of criminal prosecution of the people involved wasn't something they were thinking about even then. eric hirschman is saying to jeffrey clark, you are committing a crime here. you better -- and who does he say -- you better get a good criminal defense lawyer. >> is a letter to eastman. >> we don't know that he didn't ask for a pardon. and i mean, eastman, clark, you know, all these people are being warned at the time that they may be committing crimes. so the idea that they are somehow shocked, that this criminal investigation is now ongoing, you know, they knew the possibility was there. even at the time. and the people seeking pardons, they obviously thought a criminal investigation was possible. >> that's not the real shock -- >> richard nixon.

>> but the idea of why they are doing it here in anticipation of what's going on is what's shocking in this instance. >> well, there's a process for pardons, and you've seen former presidents go through it. i mean, it's a long process. you come up with lists of people, people suggest people who might -- >> but it doesn't have to be. >> it doesn't have to be. but this notion of mass pardons in advance of being accused of any crime is kind of stunning and shocking to me. because all of these people seem to think, as you were saying, but there's something wrong here. >> scott. the congress person who seems to be the one who brought jeffrey clark into the orbit of president trump. he seems to be the one who brought clark over. >> right. and he cannot with a statement just denying it out right, get one testify under oath. i think mo brooks is statement is the most telling. i think for someone like mo brooks, that's what he actually thinks. the same person is cooperating with the trumpet decision to try to weapon eyes all aspects

of government to hold onto power was himself, nothing, well, i thought the incoming administration might politically do that. i think for some of these members, that's actually how they view it, and i think we can't lose that in a discussion. we live in a split screen in america where they truly -- today showed some people live in a different reality than we do. a different fact environment, where it's just comedies conspiracy that they were sharing, they are not seeing things the way -- >> or they knew that they are lying, and they knew that they -- that, that maybe some other -- and they knew that maybe -- and maybe they knew that they just had in the department of justice even though they are republican officials or supporters of the president were not willing to do the president bidding, and they are suddenly worried, wait a minute, maybe there are -- >> just use a wonderful phrase. the fact environment. i hope we live in the environment of fact. and the fact is that joe biden won this election, and the whole reason we are doing this investigation is that donald trump mobilized his entire

administration and everyone around him, including his supporters, to try to -- >> and to anderson's point, most of these people knew better. that's what drives me crazy, as someone who spoke out, if they knew better, and they are just lying because they're hoping to stay in power. >> they are worried that the next administration is going to do what they are currently doing. >> which is projection. >> is also unprecedented. >> jim jordan and others who are already threatening things like even impeachment. when republicans, if republicans reclaim the majority, we are going to impeach joe biden. they are already picking talking about the ideas of having these meetings, having these investigative committees it's just pure production. >> we also don't want to get into a place in this country where every administration just does link it pardons of everybody that they support as they are leaving because of any -- >> because they were -- i mean, it just -- it's an untenable

situation. >> under investigation for things totally unrelated. and he wanted, we were told, a broad -- for anybody, it's just absurd. i don't know that they all knew, and you know more about this because you were living with them in the white house, so to speak. but i, i have a sense that some of them didn't, that they had convinced themselves that this was the right thing to do. >> i think that's true. i think that's true. >> and that in some way, shape, or form, they were doing it for a greater good, for their country, even if it meant lying, a little machiavellian there. you know, that's why we are doing this, because it's for the greater good, and donald trump should be president of the united states. >> i think it's true, and i don't know which is scarier. >> or they just didn't give a crap and they were fine with doing whatever they wanted because it serve the interests. you very much. appreciate it. up next, more revelations from today's hearing, showing just how far the former president went in efforts to subvert the election, including pressure on the justice department and homeland security to seize voting machines.

the reaction from the former prpresidents own allies and wha theyey had to say about today's hearing. lemons. lemons, lemons. look how nice they are. the moment you become an expedia member, you can instantly start saving on your travels. so you can go and see all those, lovely, lemony, lemons. ♪ and never wonder if you got a good deal. because you did. ♪ sorry i'm late! dude, dude, dude... oh boy. your cousin.from boston.

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our way of showing our appreciation. with rewards of all shapes and sizes. [ cheers ] are we actually going? yes!! and once in a lifetime moments. two tickets to nascar! yes! find rewards like these and so many more in the xfinity app. >> he discussed a variety of election matters. he did say this sounds like the kind of thing that would want appointment of a special counsel. there was a point when the president said something about, why do you have to seize

machines? >> that was four and deputy attorney general richard donoghue recalling the hours long white house meeting that we've been discussing the on january 3rd, where the former president asked top officials at the just of the partner why they couldn't seize voting machine following the 2020 election. jeff rosen today said he told the former president of the department would not seize the machines. he testified that trump then called the top official of the department of homeland security, told her that rosen said that he had said it was homeland security's job to seize the machines. rosen testified that he had never said that. joining me now is cnn's chief white house correspondent. is it clear how the former president and allies are feeling tonight about these latest hearings? because there was a lot of very, very damaging testimony today. >> it really stood out today. really, comparing to the other

hearings that we've seen from the january 6 committee. and i think it also stood out to the people who use to work in the trumpet ministration, or people who still find themselves in his orbit. several of them, anderson, that i spoke to said they actually found today's testimony pretty damaging to trump. because i think that they've downplayed a lot of the other hearings, a lot of them have said they're not watching, they're not paying attention. not as many people were saying that about what was happening today, and you are hearing these top justice department officials testified about just what a chaotic environment and was in the last several weeks. i think the reason they found today more damaging, based on the conversations that i had with these people, several of them, was that it was not just that trump tried to use the justice department in this blatant manner for his own political gain, but also there were or embarrassing moments where you heard the committee confirm that, yes, mark meadows, the chief of staff, did reach out to the acting defense to terry at the pentagon, had him call an official in italy to check on whether or not this theory about land satellites being used to change votes actually checks out, which, of course, it didn't. these officials testified today

they found that, that allegation, that baseless allegation to be pure insanity. but also arranging to things like the looks at the white house, already calling jeffrey clark acting attorney general when he very much was not so. that very notable meeting that trump had with these top officials where they were saying trump asked if they were now going to try to fire jeffrey clark after he mold putting him in the top spot of the justice department. and then explained to the president that actually, we couldn't do that, giving he's in a senate confirmed position. that's only something that a president could do. i think those testimonies, one by one, coming out from the top officials, republican officials, career officials, talking about what they've been through, that's why they found it more damaging than the other days and the other testimonies that you've seen from this committee. >> i assume, well, do you know the extent to which the former ex-president is actually watching these hearings, giving his penchant for watching and

some on television? >> we don't know today. we know that he had been saying he was going to stop watching the hearings. he obviously had started watching them, he does typically watch hearings, especially when they are about him, very closely. but he had been growing angrier and angrier as the hearings were going on. none of his regressive public and allies, a lot of the ones not clear we watched today, but he will see the testimony of the former elections. >> katelyn, appreciate it. thanks very much. with more on the reaction from the former president's allies, joining me again jamie gangel. jamie, you heard katelyn's reporting about the former president. how damaging was the testimony for donald trump? >> we don't know big picture long term. but let's remember, i don't often like to compare these hearings to watergate, but there is one similarity. and that is, it wasn't until the middle of the watergate hearings, well along, that

things started coming out, like alexander butterfield and the recording. i do think things have an incremental effect. the question is, are the people who believe the big lie listening and watching? >> and that's a significant question because obviously a lot of the people who believe the big lie watch fox and oann and newsmax and channels that are either not covering this or covering it generally speaking as look at this partisan witch hunt. translator: no question. back then people were for the most part operating from the same set of facts in reality. and, you know, with limited access to information. and now it's a completely different world. the question is whether or not the former president is getting -- whether adam kinzinger in particular, people

of his ilk, are getting any traction with the argument he made at the hearing, that he made in an interview with you, which is anybody who is a fair-minded person watching these in the republican party who was not speaking out and doing what is right is going to have, you know, their conscience to deal with. and it's not just the leaders right now. but then it also goes down to the voters. and that is the ultimate question right now. >> chris, i want to play more of what former acting deputy attorney general richard donahue said today in his testimony. take a listen. >> the december 27 conversation was, in my mind, an escalation of the earlier conversations, as the former acting ag indicated, there were a lot of communications that preceded that. as we got later in the month of december, the president became more urgent.

he became more adamant that we weren't doing our job. we need to step up and do our job. and he had this arsenal of allegations that he wanted to rely on. so, i felt in that conversation that was incumbent on me to make it very clear to the president what our investigations had revealed and that we had concluded based on actual investigations, actual witness interviews, actual reviews of documents, that these allegations simply had no merit. >> were any of the allegations he brought up credible? did you find any of them credible? >> no. >> i mean, that's significant. and, again, richard donahue, he's an army veteran. he's a former u.s. attorney. he's also a trumpster. donald trump -- >> they're all trumpsters. >> yaeeah, trumpsters. >> this is the phone call on december 27, and trump, again, as part of this drama, is becoming more and more agitated

is another word they use, in addition to adamant, about these various theories. and so he's presenting them on the phone to donahue, and he's saying, well, what about antrim county and what about this and what about that? he keeps saying, no, no, there's no merit, we've investigated it, mr. president. and he said in his testimony today, i was trying to cut through the noise because i knew he was getting all this information -- or all these allegations -- about these various places and these various supposed frauds, and i was trying to say, no, we've looked into it. it's not true. and it was at that point at the end of this that trump made the famous statement, you know, i'm not asking you to do that. just say that the election was corrupt and leave it to me and the republicans. i mean, this was donahue doing his best to try to get the president to face the truth, and the president kind of saying the quiet part out loud.

i don't need the truth. i just need a statement from you. >> what's remarkable here is the president was going to fight it all. >> yeah, i think that's right. and install jeffrey clark, who was going to do his bidding. in these days, we see a president who is kind of gripped with a kind of desperate need to hold on to power. he is a con artist looking for a mark, right? tries to get pence to go along with him. that doesn't work. he tries to get folks at the doj to go along with him. that doesn't work. he looks in these different states, right, in georgia, in arizona, to try to get folk to go along with him. finally in the end he does find a mark, right? it's essentially these supporters, his followers on january 6. they're the ones that really in the end do his bidding, try to essentially overthrow the government in a kind of violent coup on january 6th. and that is what we will see unfold in the coming hearings. coming up next on the new and damaging details presented

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-- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com one of the striking features of today's hearings was being led by one of the only two

republicans on the committee. adam kensinger, his questions to the witness involve the damnin g revealing the names of republican members of congress who witnesses say saw preemptive pardons from former president trump. they include louie gohmert,