comcast business internet customers. so boost your bottom line by switching today. comcast business. powering possibilities. a number of striking features of today's hearing is that it was led by one of only

two republicans on the committee. his questions about some of the most damning revelations so far during this hearing. congress and kinzinger said the former president told him cummaquid, just say that the president was corrupt, leave the rest to me and the republican cupboard and. >> a short time ago i spoke with congress and kinzinger about today's hearing, whether he thinks the former president directed the justice department to break the law. members of congress leading up to generate six? >> this is about trump's attempted weapon is the justice department, but it ended with the panel revealing the names of republican members of congress, who, witnesses say saw preemptive pardons from president trump, they include congressman mo brooks, matt gates, andy biggs, louis gomer, scott berry, perhaps marjorie taylor, these are sitting

members of as a preventative, should they be censured? should they be removed from committees? what do you think? >> i think -- that is i guess, a decision for colleagues. my job is to put that evidence out there. at the end of that, i only know of one reason to seek a pardon. because, you are worried you are guilty, you have committed a crime. this is something that they have to answer to their constituents. you know? i cannot enforce rules in the house and do certain things unilaterally, but i think the bigger point is, listen, america, do you really want your members of congress out there, trying to bend or break the law, so that they can maintain political power? that is anathema to everything we ever learned in history class , whether you are in third grade or a senior. that has got to stop.'s budget is interesting, because you had three trump loyalist, rosen, donahue, and engel testified today.

these are officials who are loyal to donald trump, but, they were really willing to resign instead of go along with his unconstitutional, perhaps illegal scheme. on the other hand, you have trump loyalist we just mentioned, these republican members of the house . do you think, in your opinion, are they fit to remain in office? >> yeah, i don't want to go there period that is a decision between them and their constituents. in a, i will say this, though, let's contrast them to these three gentlemen in front there today. i'm sure all three of them voted for donald trump, i'm sure all three of them were sad he lost. you know, i am sure all three of them wished the election would have been different. >> and faced with that pressure, i don't think -- it is tough to explain how much pressure it is, when you have a president of the united states putting that on you, for all of them, to stand strong. for all the deputy attorneys to basically make the decision that they were going to all resign, it is an amazing story,

in that courage, honestly because of the other thing we have to keep in mind, and i kind of said this in my opening statement is, what would happen if something different happened in the future? what if any of those people would have said, we will put the department of justice stamp on your lies and conspiracy, this democracy will be in trouble but this isn't over, we are not out of the woods. >> donahue, the former deputy, acting deputy attorney general said that he told jeffrey clark , that clark was advocating cummaquid, nothing less than meddling in the outcome of an election. we also heard that clark was conducting his own investigation . take a listen to what we heard about voting machines. the idea that trump was telling jeffrey rosen to seize, you know, why haven't you seized the machine? in your view, do you think the committee presented evidence today, that trump directed the justice department to break the

law? >> i think we have shown a lot of evidence that the president knew what he was doing. the breaking the law part, i think yes, personally. but again, i would like to leave that to doj. ironically, doj is on the stands today, they probably have a special interest in what happened at this moment. you mentioned the voting machines, about this but the president asked rosen to seize voting machines. he said i cannot do it. so the president calls can puccinelli at dhs and says, rosen says you can seize voting machines. of course he never said that. that just goes to show, you can't trust anything the president says. thankfully can puccinelli says we cannot seize machines either. >> one of the things that is so telling, which we have known for years now, but to see it play out, because of the committee hearings, is that, you know, a few people, different, in those roles,

serving as vice president, serving as acting attorney general, serving as maricopa county board of supervisors, in arizona. just a handful of jeffrey clark replacing any of those individuals, and all these individuals i am talking about, are trump loyalist, conservative republicans. and, we very well could have lost democracy in the united states. >> you know who else knows that? not just you and me, but steve bannon, those actually planning this, they think they can put in under the radar, loyalist, and friendly, they can. that is the point. every one of these hearings we have done, we have shown a layer of stuff that could go wrong, and there is no magic police force that if people do not follow through on their oath will come and enforce that. it is really just us having to hold true to what we believe. you know, what happens in trump's second term, or a trump

acolyte in his term as presidency, now he can interview anyone in doj or any position and ask is your loyalty to me or to the constitution and eventually you will find somebody who says i will put my loyalty to you over the constitution. >> that was my conversation earlier with congressman kinzinger. >> one of the things i think at the end that he says is so important? we saw that, the price regular people have paid for these lies, for the attacks, the price on election workers who decided, you know what? i'm not going to do this anymore. this is what i am suggest subjected to and there are certainly plenty of, you know, sleazy folks with a political agenda who are willing to try to get those jobs, in order to cause mayhem. >> the gubernatorial candidate for the republican party, in pennsylvania, my home commonwealth, doug must now come is an election liar.

was of the capitol on july 6, and in pennsylvania. in pennsylvania, you don't elect the secretary of state, the governor appoints the secretary of state. so this is a clear and present threat, right now, and whether it is sleazy people serving as election workers because they can't get decent people to do it anymore because they figure it is not worth the harassment or risk to their lives, or, the governor appoints them, this is a clear and present danger to american democracy, period . we don't actually know the exact date of the next hearing because of the committee members daily of new information. any piece of information together over six months by a film maker with behind the scenes access to the former president, family, and top allies before and after the general sixth attack. the documentary is airing later this month on discovery plus which is cnn's sister company. there is a clip of the former

president resenting his version of what happened on general sixth. >> can we talk about general sixth? >> yeah. >> well, it was a sad day, but it was a day where there was great anger in our country. people went to washington primarily because they were angry with an election that they think was rigged. a very small portion, as you know, went down to the capitol, and a very small portion of them went in. but i will tell you, they were angry from the standpoint of what happened in the election, because they're smart and they see and they saw what happened, and i believe that was a big part of what happened on january 6th. >> no mention of the violence, minimizing what actually happened and praising them as very smart. filmmaker alex holden testified today to a committee behind closed doors, a colleague spoke to him today from an interview

that airs tonight on don's show . you specifically ask holder about that moment, what did he say? >> not to mention, anderson, that the reason they were angry was because he was telling them the lie. he was feeding the lie, that it was rigged and stolen. it was very interesting, because he said that he had never met the former president before, but then after sitting down with him, and interviewing him, he sort of had a reversal, a change of mind. watch this. >> my position was that it was a staggering answer to that question. the idea of trying to see whether or not he may potentially dilute his position or change it was not for me, you know i asked him a question, he gave me an answer, i'm not allowed to persuade him. to i think he is wrong? of course. it's obviously a tragic event and the fact that he called them smart, and also, i thought the unresisting was the fact

that he used the word, he sought these people think the election was stolen. that was very interesting as well. why do they think that? for me, i feel that he is essentially admitting that the reason why they were there was because of the fact that they believed in his position on the election. >> did he come at any point, acknowledged that he lost? >> no. i will tell you something, when i interviewed him for the first time, in the white house, about a month after the election, i had this debate with our director of photography about whether or not the president actually believed that the election was rigged. i was of the opinion that of course he doesn't really believe the election was rigged, this is just donald trump rhetoric. after that interview, when he left, and i was now thinking about what had just happened, my entire position changed. he absolutely genuinely believes that he won and the

election was stolen. >> in that moment, you changed your mind? >> absolutely. i changed my mind on the point that he didn't really believe it. my conclusion is that donald trump genuinely believes that he won the 2020 residential election, and that is terrifying. >> listen, i think most people are of the belief, because all the evidence shows that the former president knows better, after 60 court cases and every legitimate adviser around him telling him that it was bs, including his own former attorney general. i think the president knew better. it is interesting, i heard you speaking, i think your quote was, the price regular people have paid for this. he is a master at creating his unreality and co-opting people to believe his unreality. this illusory truth. so, he got this smart filmmaker in that interview, to believe that he believed that.

i don't believe that he believes it, i think he knows better, but he has to continue on with that big lie. >> how much time did holder actually spent with the trump family? do we know what successes he was brought in for this document are? >> i asked him directly, he said there was no financial interest from the trumps, he said it is all independent, people who were interested in independent investors, including himself, collins got more specific information about it. i think he did three interviews with former president, december of 2021, march of 2021, may of 2021, three hours with ivanka trump, to with jared krishna, to with eric, he's spent a lot of time with them the for and after the election, and after the insurrection. >> wasn't it jason greenblatt, a friend of jared kushner, was he one of the backers of this? was this just a puff piece? is that how this guy got access? >> i'm not sure that jason

greenblatt was a backer, i did ask him directly if jason greenblatt conducted any of these interviews that he said jason did not. he also said that he did, alex holder did all of the interviews. now, he said, he took offense to calling it a puff piece and he said he was very direct with him about wanting to spend time and wanted to talk about the administrator in, and the trump legacy. >> we have also been told by folks in the trump world, that they had been told that this was a puff piece, and that they had nothing to worry about and that they had complete editorial control over what went out. you have denied that. right? did they have complete editorial control, or any editorial control? >> no. they have not seen a single frame of my footage. >> ready think that is coming from? >> i have no idea. >> did you sell this to them as i puff up puff piece?

>> it's really not. >> do you wish you had pushed them more about a genuine six? >> no. i think there said deserves an audience. at the end of the day, when we started this process, here's a guy from britain introduced to them who does not have any political skin in the game, and they were absolutely convinced they would win the election. around about september of 2020. so why not have somebody around on the campaign trail, document and then win the election. so, the essentially made that choice to allow us in. >> they absolutely thought they were going to win the election. anderson, it is interesting just how out of touch they were, not only with what happened, but just with reality. >> yeah. i am fascinated to know, who would have had actual editorial control over this film, looking for more on this interview, it will be on your program starting at 10:00, tonight,

thanks so much. >> thanks, anderson. struck back with us, jamie gangel, anna henderson, and kasie hunt, i want to get your reaction to the document refill maker but going back to the hearing where former deputy attorney general memorialized the meeting he had with them president trump, let's take a listen. >> toward the end of the meeting, the president again, was getting very agitated, and he said, people tell me i should just get rid of both of you. i should just remove you, and make a change in leadership. with jeff clark, and maybe finally something will get done. i responded as i think i had earlier, in december, mr. president, you should have the leadership you want. but understand, the united states justice department functions on facts, evidence, and law, and those will not change. so you can have whatever leadership you want, the department's position will not

change. >> i don't know that that really mattered to donald trump. facts, evidence, and law are not going to change. >> it clearly didn't. he said as much. he said look, just write me a letter. tell me it's fine and the house come at me and the house republicans will take care of it and we will all be good. you know, these officials who stood up today, it seems they relate to the party, we heard from some sources that the apartment of justice was under a lot of pressure from the trumpet ministration well before what you saw in the context of that meeting, but, i think this eliminated at the end of the day, these guys showed up and said this is not good enough. this is not okay, and they stood in the breach. joined by a bunch of other people we have heard from in these hearings. >> i think what convinced trump cannot do this, through the justice department, was not the fact that evidence will not change, it was, the head lawyer , saying, if you do this, and we all resign, this is how it is going to look, you know that

the president cares about appearances, is repetition and how people think about him, what is interesting though, they talked donald trump down from this crazy scheme of installing jeffrey clark he then comes up with his other crazy scheme of, oh, there is an i.c.e. agent with threaded ballots in georgia, i'm sure he is exasperated at this point, but the presidents cockamamie theories, he says this will be dhs, you should call ken cuccinelli. >> is not my problem. >> exactly. he is still in this manic race to find this evidence for this crazy theory he has, and this of course leads up to january 6. >> you said he is so obsessed, to go to our documentary

filmmaker, i don't know if you saw the clip that he put out, that the trump's did not have editorial control, but it was a clip of donald trump arranging the way the interview looks. i think any of us, anyone who has interviewed donald trump has seen this. he produced his intellivision shots to the point where he is making his decision, the table next to me doesn't look right. should the water let's have a cap on it or not, i think that this goes to show you that throughout all of this, he is producing a show that is designed to convince enough americans to do, ultimately, what happened on january 6th. you know, i think we should not lose sight of the fact, jamie, i know you know this so well, liz cheney has not lost sight of the fact that he is going to try, probably, to do it again. and what they are doing is a tv show, right, designed to speak to people, to convince them that, that would be a really bad idea.

>> he is doing it. as we speak he is doing it, election after election after election in the public and primaries all across the country. he is putting out, for his endorsement, not just a loyalty test, but a test about whether or not people will spew the lies that we have heard, over and over again. >> that's why you can't get them to answer the question. did biden win the election? they've asked so many people that. >> right, but even beyond that, you had people who won the republican primaries in states from missouri, to pennsylvania, and beyond, both on the senate level, on the gubernatorial level, and lower, but certainly when it comes to the house of representatives. it is happening as we speak. >> there are more jeffrey clarkson place at this point, then jeffrey rosen's. >> an army of jeffrey clark's. >> let's go to the claim about don made, whether donald trump knew he had lost took two

things, what is the worst thing in donald trump's world to be? a loser. so, there is a story that has been reported out, that after election day, a number of people close to him, including, saying work on your legacy, move on. and he said if i'm a loser, there is no legacy. >> everyone, stay with us, we have much more to cover, including this. wisconsin republican senator ron johnson, last seen trying to avoid reporters earlier in the week, pretending he was on the phone rather than answering their questions about the revelation that his office tried to pass on a slate of fake electors to vice president pence's office. today, he is saying which member of his office he believes passed on the names on that slate to his office. the details ahead. and normalizing, special democratic counsel for president in the presidents

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new developments in the story of a fake slate of electors. senator ron johnson office wanted to have his people give the vice president, last january 6th. here is what happened when we tried to get answers from senator johnson on tuesday after the select committee made a revelation. >> why was even asking for them? >> because somebody delivered this to our office and asked to give them to the vice president. >> did you support his efforts? >> know. i had no knowledge of this. >> who is the person -- >> i had no involvement or knowledge of an alternate slate of ever electors. i had no idea this would be delivered, my chief of staff did the right thing, contacted the vice president's chief of

staff. >> who is the person who delivered the envelope? >> i have no idea. >> so not to the end of the story. that is such a ludicrous explanation on so many levels. not the only one asking for a response. take a look. >> senator johnson? how much did you know about what you're chief of staff was doing with the alternate slate of electors? >> i'm on the phone right now. >> no you're not. i can see your phone. i can see your screen. does your chief of staff still work for you, senator? >> why was your chief of staff even offering this to the vice president? >> we issued a statement, this is a nonstory. >> today, the senator did get on the phone telling a radio host, where his is the

alternate slate of electors came from on capitol hill. what did he say? >> you are hearing a lot of back and forth on this one. congresswoman mike kelly saying these allegations from senator johnson are patently false but he said to the spokesman that he has not talked to the senator in the better half of nearly a decade and has no idea what johnson is talking about. of course, we took this back to johnson, and he is still standing by his words. we caught up with him moments ago, and senator ron johnson says he still believes that these documents, this fake set of electors came from mike kelly's office. he says he is also basing this on what he has seen from a conservative reporter who has reported that. he does not know for sure, so, there is still a lot of questions about johnson's involvement in all of this. it seems like every day, we either get a bit of a different story or a little bit more of the story. i think the big picture here, anderson, is that a lot of these trump allies are starting to really feel the heat as this

investigation is playing out publicly. a lot of them are getting caught in the crosshairs, whether it is senator ron johnson, or, the nearly half a dozen lawmakers who requested a presidential pardon after generate six. >> i missed that part, ron johnson claims representative mike kelly gave his chief of staff that list? >> reporter: that is what ron johnson said initially. in the redo interview he said that mike kelly was the originator of that set of documents with the fake electors . mike kelly is saying that is not true. >> appreciate it. political commentary from david irvin, he was a campaign strategist, alyssa griffin also back to us. i want to get to senator johnson in a moment, there's a lot to dissect, there. you said before, on cnn, david, that the former president should worry about the proceedings. what do you think about after

today? >> unless there will be charges filed, which is a long stretch. i know there are people who keep talking about it, right, i think the president is on the way to being the nominee for the republican party if he wants it in 2024. i think that the people who have an impact on that, the republican they voter base are tuned into this. they keep saying have you seen the movie 2000 meals, they keep questioning my questioning them why they didn't believe the president lost. these are people who i know are educated folks and if i cannot get through to them, and they can continue with insisting that the president did not lose, these aren't bumpkins, these are educated people, i don't know how to change that. >> i do think it is getting under trump's skin but he put out several messages on truth social, today, referring to the committee as the unselect. i think today's testimony did get to him. i think mainly the fact that he is made to look like a fool,

and the advisers around him, just the level of craziness of the conspiracy theories. again, i think it is simply getting to him. >> i don't dispute any of that. i don't dispute that it is today, the testimony from the acting attorney general, and from mr. donahue, it's devastating to hear this testimony. i don't dispute any of that, just, at the end of the day, if you're going to question, will donald trump be the nominee in 2024, for the republican party, i think not. will republicans vote in sufficient numbers in 2024 jamaican president? this may have an impact. >> suddenly, you see reports of this subterranean movement towards ron desantis of florida, and he could take on donald trump, and maybe, there are republicans now who look at this and say, you know, we would like somebody who has got donald trump's policies, but without the crazy. so, that may be seeping out books but i think the point that you just

made is important, that it may impact republicans about whether they would vote for the president, if he would run. >> in a general election. in a primary, remember the primary and 16. lots of people on the stage and slowly winnowed down to a few, right? if we are going to have, you know, if you have the list of people you are seeing, saying might run like mike pompeo, this list of people running in a crowded republican primary, donald trump will emerge the victor in that primary. >> you're absolutely right about that, by the way. >> do you feel that there is a little bit of a drip, drip, among a lot of fair-minded publicans out there who are, you know, looking at this with a clear i. >> i think people hear that, i think that is what alyssa is referring to. it does get to some people. people are seeing this and they say we don't need the drama. i don't know if he did something that is criminal or not, i just don't want to go

through the drama. they are not taking a judgment of whether he should be tried or not tried, i think they're just saying enough of 2020, i am worried about 2025, 2026. >> we have seen this in the past, there were so many people who would say, several years ago, in spite of all the political shenanigans that trump brings with him, the compartmentalized and said as long as he can get people on the supreme court to overturn roe, i am fine with the rest. >> the attorney general of the united states. >> all he is doing is talking about 2020. you're talking about voters who want to get beyond it? he is not. >> i do want to show some of the remarks from adam kinzinger on the attempts to install the former doj official jeffrey clark as acting attorney general and how scott perry effectors into that. >> on the same day acting attorney general rosen told mr. clark to stop talking to the white house, representative perry was urging chief of staff mark meadows to elevate clark with him to the department of

justice. you can now see, on the screen behind me, a series of texts between rivers and did of perry, and mr. meadows. we show that representative perry requested that mr. clark be elevated within the department. representative perry tells mr. meadows, on december 26th, that, quote, just checking in as time continues to count down. 11 days to january 6th, and 25 days to inauguration. we have got to get going. >> representative perry follows up and says, quote, mark, you should call jeff. i just got off the phone with him, and he explained to me why the principal deputy won't work, especially with the fbi, they will view it as not having the authority to enforce what needs to be done. mr. meadows responds with, i got it. i think i understand. let me work on the deputy position. represented of perry then text roger, just something sent you something on signal.

>> signal is an encrypted app and they don't have access to that. is a former prosecutor and wondering what you make of that? >> i make of that, evidence. all of that corroborating other things that people have spoken about, recognizing that the powers that be, but actually had the authority, jeffrey rosen and the like, were not willing to play. they did not want to play of the game of pretend we have the authority legally to do something illegal. so they were searching for other people. remember, scott perry was the person who, at one point, brought jeffrey clark to the white house, unbeknownst to jeffrey rosen, ended up on the white house visitor lawn as well and was confronted by his own acting attorney general, this is a further example, yet again, where there was an end run attempt around what the protocol of doj was, knowing there was no legal authority to do what he is asking for, to send the georgia letter, to have a slate of electors, and yet they still tried to do so, with a member of congress supporting it.

>> and got quite close to doing that. the former special counsel has thoughts on today's hearing, and officials said the former president told him, quote, to say that the election was rough . your record label is taking off. but so is your sound engineer.

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you also noted that mr. rosen said to mr. trump, quote, doj can't and won't snap his fingers and change the outcome of the election. how did the president respond to that? >> he responded very quickly, and said, essentially, that is not what i'm asking you to do. what i am asking you to do is just say it was corrupt and leave the rest to me on the republican congressman. >> that was former acting deputy attorney general richard donahue testing today during the presidential transmission. donahue said donahue urged him and another top justice department official to just declare, that the clancy 2020 election was corrupt and leave the rest to him. someone who knows firsthand, former legal counsel to democrats during trump's first impeachment, herman isan. what does that say to you, do you think about the former president intends. >> it shows a disregard for the

truth, jake. when you say, just declare it is corrupt, and leave it to me in the republican congressman. we learned that the republican congressmen were so concerned about that, that they sought pardons. to me, jake, it fits into the criminal conspiracy, that a federal judge was already found is likely to conspire to defraud the united states by essentially stealing an election which does not belong to you. he was asking doj to help him do that. >> how does that play into the idea that this was a full-blown conspiracy? >> what we have seen over the course of these hearings, is that trump was methodically proceeding, step-by-step, with the help of lawyers, to engage

in what the committee has described as an attempted coup, jake. but, it wasn't a coup with tanks and guns, it was a coup with law books and statutes. and, the president was trying to co-opt these lawyers. we had heroes today, three senior doj officials, trump supporters, republicans, defenders of trump, who refused to participate in that, and of course, we also had one of the villains. he took center stage, next to trump and john eastman, that is the president's doj lawyer, jeffrey clark, who was trying to push this scheme. >> earlier, we heard the british document refill maker, alex holder, saying that he does think that president trump really believes these lies.

he really believes that the election was stolen from him, despite the fact that there is no factual evidence to that case. criminally, does it even matter? >> jake, it does matter because you're not allowed to engage in vigilante justice. even if you believe you lost an election. when the president, in georgia, told the secretary of state there, just find 11,780 votes, or when, as we heard on tuesday, he pushed these phony electoral slates. you know, essentially, those are forgeries. you are not allowed to forge documents simply because you believe you won an election. it would be as if i thought that the u.s. treasury owed me $11,780, so i counterfeited the money, or robbed the mint. you can't do that, jake. intent is really beside the

point, for the crimes that are allegedly emerging, here. >> norm isan, thank you so much. for more let's bring back jamie, dana, and kasie hunt. jamie, you heard what norm says, about these revelations from senior justice department officials. >> i think they were the most compelling hearings we have heard thus far, because these are conservative republicans, trump appointees, and what we heard once again today, you referred to it with norm, this was the just do it conspiracy, whether it was georgia, just find me 11,780 votes. rudy, aren't we all republicans? eastman, just do it. we will sort it out in the courts. trump depends, you can do it. there is one other thing that was mentioned this week but i think we should take note of. liz cheney said this week, that

more than 30 witnesses. now, they had 1000, but more than 30 witnesses took the fifth . we know about a handful. who are these other people? >> interesting. the ones that we know include eastman, and jeffrey clark. i don't know if he took the fifth so much as claimed executive privilege. >> he took the fifth as well. roger stone, there are a lot of people out there that we do not know who they are yet. >> donald trump once said something like, you know, only guilty people take the fifth. theoretically, the fifth is -- people who, they know what the fifth is, the right to not incriminate yourself. it is when you have committed a crime. >> which is why, for example, at the very beginning of this, we thought bill step in, the former president campaign manager was going to testify in

public. he was maybe the only hostile witness so far that we expected, he ended up not testifying, because his wife went into labor, but, i asked some close to him, why doesn't he plead the fifth? the answer was, because he did not think he did anything that was criminal. so, he won't incriminate himself, he would just come out and talk. so, pleading the fifth, you know, it makes it clear, it does not make it clear that they did commit a crime but it makes clear that they are worried that they possibly did. >> we should reiterate the point, that jeffrey clark wouldn't talk to the committee, but he went on fox tonight, and he was allowed to spew his lies. that is a safe space for these lies. and, that is why these hearings are going on, because nobody is being shunned in the maga world for these lies but they are encouraged and still have safe spaces. >> they are being embraced,

they are being elevated, we will see if he becomes a regular on fox news at any point, given what his path was, he would be embraced by the people who think that he was a hero, the one who was trying to write to the election wrong. we will see what happens to him. obviously, he is in some legal jeopardy, his home got rated. i think they were there for something like three hours. but, this is the world that trump created, where, you know, corruption is embraced, it is ignored, it is seen as something where you are embracing trump and obviously in reality jeffrey clark was very wrong. >> some of these co- conspirators in the house of representatives, if polls are right, are going to be chairman of committees and chairman of subcommittees in a year, because there are things that people hold against biden and the democrats. inflation, gas prices and the

like. and i guess, democracy is not a factor. >> well, i think that the key test, here, for the committee, for our democracy, is, it's true, jeffrey clark has his platform, he was given a plat from tonight. yes it is true, there are many members of congress, particularly in the house of representatives who will continue to have megaphones. however, we have seen some evidence, that there are republicans out there, who are tired of donald trump. that is why he lost the election, in 2020. look at the election results in georgia, for example, where there are republican members of congress, most of them sent back to washington, with more votes, larger percentage of the vote, then a donald trump received on the residential ballot but these are also the same people who sent brian kemp into the governor's office in georgia, who sent brad roethlisberger back to the secretary of state's office, despite an effort by donald trump. there is also evidence,

i think, that there are republicans who are looking to turn the page. i think so far the evidence we have seen across the board in elections is that attacking donald trump out right is a bad plan if you want to win a republican primary. but, you can run past him. just say, you know, he is mad at me, i'm not mad at him. this is what i will do in the future and voters seem to be willing to say i will do that. i think that is people like ron desantis is counting on. liz cheney is in a different situation herself, in wyoming, because she has become the chief attack dog, but she is talking to those voters, she is talking to republican voters, independent voters, people who may want to vote against joe biden, and if republicans actually nominate trump, we will have a really tough conversation, along those lines. but we've got to get there, first. i think this is an attempt to basically say look, the department of justice could try to resolve this judicially, but we all know it is not going to be solved unless it is solved politically. and, that requires convincing people. i think that is what you are

seeing happen. >> yusei david urban say, to anderson, that he is still pretty confident, that the base voters, those who elect the nominee for president, are not convinced, because they are not seeing it. they are not hearing the same set of facts. they are not living in this reality. >> it's too early.'s but i was assigned to say that, such an important point. it is too early, and the other thing, you touched on this, casey, is compared to what? if ron desantis does run, or if somebody else, who may be, more palatable on these issues, but is still trump the on other issues donald trump can walk right of the center into the nomination but if he is facing one person the whole time? different ballgame. >> jamie, dana, henderson and casey, thank you so much. david coates, and claire

griffin are with me once again. these were originally expected to wrap up pretty soon but it has now been extended, do we know when the next ones are? >> i think probably mid july, although these things are dynamic, they could change at any moment. >> they say it is because they are getting -- >> they are getting a lot more information. i was told by one of my committee sources that there is archival information that we do not know about. >> if the supreme court ruling on abortion comes out next week, that will take all the news coverage. >> obviously, they don't want to compete with that, but i do believe that they have a lot more work to do, and we have all remarked on how organized these hearings have been. it has been kind of remarkable. one member at a time, one narrative at a time, you come away with one big message, every hearing, and i think they

have had some hearings, with more things to talk about. what they are going to do, at the very end, is give you a minute by minute recitation of january 6th, and where donald trump was, and what he was doing, and what he was not doing. >> david had made the point a couple of days ago, that it would be more impactful if they just had republican and asking the questions. of it was liz cheney and adam kinzinger asking the questions, and not really democratic members of the committee. >> i tend to agree with that. i think adam shifted a masterful job. you would think of the impeachment when you think of him. so the fact that nearly all the witnesses have been republicans is important but the fact that every time ranking member cheney has gotten a chance to speak, and i think today in my opinion, the best hearing we saw today was from congressman kinzinger, the plea that he made which he mentioned earlier with jake, to republicans right now, if you saw what you saw today, it is not too late to

come forward or to walk away from this former president, that will be the message that he keeps pushing out, because i agree with kasie hunt. the battlefield is the voters. we do not know what the department of justice will do but if trump is the nominee it doesn't really even matter to some degree. so, i think this is a messaging effort, as much as anything. >> david, do you agree? >> i agree. to gloria's point about, they will drag it out and have a hearing in july or in august, people will not be watching in july. they will be watching shark week in august. they are not going to be watching -- >> they watched watergate in the summer. >> that was when you had three stations and everyone was glued to the tv. it's a different world. they can afford to go on vacation and buy gas and fill their tanks, they will be gone. i think it becomes, you reach a point of diminishing returns with these hearings, right? and i think you will start getting there. to your point there may be a hearing where they go on tiktok, minute by minute

recitation i would urge them to get that done, quickly, because there viewership will tune out at some point, right? people have families and lives and its natural. >> and yet, there is some value, unlike a criminal trial, and allowing it to breathe, and allowing the conversations to unfold. the idea of people being able to converse, did you hear this part? did you see where this person said this? it takes away a lot of the bite from people being able to say, this is a part is an exercise. the more they are suggesting that they are not concerned about that. the doj has a sword of damocles above them. they cannot be involved. >> did you hear anything today, in particular? that the department of justice or attorney general mary garland would immediately be interested in and want to know more about? >> i think the idea of a slate of electors, the idea of somebody intending in some form or fashion to try to circumvent the normal process. are there other jeffrey clark's is my question.

is very emboldened and audacious, but are there others who felt it was important to do so? were there members of congress who were trying to facilitate further medications? jeffrey clark's home was raided today. they may have had other things that happened before this moment in time, but what about jeffrey clark today did you learn from the hearings, was there other corroborating evidence through his phone et cetera, that said this person was named? i also want to know, if i am doj, how did scott perry know that jeffrey clark was the person to speak to about these issues? who told you what? who leaned on you, where? why does jeffrey clark have an audience with the president of the united states? >> why does perry know that clark is susceptible to this idea? >> exactly. doj, remember, when you were a prosecutor in the doj you are vetted to an extent even your credit cards. >> if merrick garland did pursue

charges, without serve the former president's interest? >> i think so. i think the president would go out and say look, i am being persecuted for my beliefs here. and it's a charge. if you're not going to convict the president, that will make it 1000 times stronger. i've heard mentioned on this network many times, they may indict people around him, leave him as an unindicted co- conspirator and then bring charges they can make cases against people i think that is probably more powerful. >> except in georgia. >> solicitations. yes. >> to laura's point about reading this guys house, what took them 18 months? >> we don't know if there was new information they received. >> someone is asleep at the switch. >> thanks to all our panelists. today's testimony was extraordinary, not sure that were even captures the scope of

what we heard. >> never heard anything like what we heard today. it was a historic. and there are more hearings to come. >> thanks to you and all our guests tonight. the news continues in a moment. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need. [submarine rising out of water] minions are bitin' today. (sung) liberty. liberty. liberty. minions: the rise of gru, in theaters july 1st. we need to reduce plastic waste in the environment. that's why at america's beverage companies, our bottles are made to be re-made. not all plastic is the same. we're carefully designing our bottles to be 100% recyclable, including the caps. they're collected and separated from other plastics, so they can be turned back into material that we use to make new bottles. that completes the circle and reduces plastic waste. please help us get every bottle back.

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