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>> explosive testimony today about what trump and those closest to him new heading into the insurrection. in a to the former white house chief of staff mark meadows publicly testifying trump was told his supporters were armed but said they are not hurt t here to hurt me. ryan nobles has more now. >> from the moment she was sworn in, cassidy hutchison, former aide to trump white house

chief of staff mark meadows made it clear she had much to share. >> that was the first moment that i remember feeling scared and nervous for what could happen on january 6. >> providing unique insight into a chaotic white house in the days leading up to january 6th and a president who cheered on the riders and she says she was told, desperately wanted to be with them. >> he said something to the effect of i am the effingham president, take me to the capital now. he reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab the steering wheel. mr. ingle grabbed his arm and said you need to take your hand off the steering wheel, we are going back to the west wing, not to the capital. mr. trump used his free hand to

lunge towards bobby ingle. >> a detailed insistence that he follows a border to the capital on january 6 despite being told pdb that it was dangerous and potentially illegal. >> he fifth inning to the effect of please make sure we don't go to the capital cassidy, keep in touch with me, we're going to get in charge of every crime imaginable if we make that movement happen. we had conversations about potentially obstructing justice or defrauding the electoral count. he was she outlined repeated examples of an unstable commander-in-chief who lashed out in anger often after losing the 2020 election. when he learned attorney general william barr told the associated press there was no widespread voter fraud. >> there was catchup dripping down the wall and a shattered porcelain plate on the floor. the valet articulate it that the president was extremely angry at the attorney general's ap interview and had thrown his lunch against the wall.

>> sitting doors away from the oval office, hutchinson was central to key moments leading up to january 6. meadows himself mourn her. >> things might get real real bad on january 6. where she also made it clear, white house officials knew about the vast weapons the crowd was carrying. >> have three men walking down the street. including trump who said in a tent at the rally site -- >> i overheard the president say something to the effect of i think they have weapons but they are not here to hurt me. my people can march the capital from here. let them in. >> we are going to walk down and i will be there with you. we're going to walked onto the capital. with hutchison said she was in contact with republican leaders like house minority leader kevin mccarthy who warned her that trump should not come to the capital.

>> he just set it on stage and they figured out, do not come up here. >> as the crowd was raging, hutchinson testified that trump was cheering them on. agreeing with the chance to quote hang mike pence. >> was monotonic to the effect of you heard him, he thinks he does not think they are doing anything wrong. >> recounted white house counsel reaction. >> people are going to die in the blood will be on your hands. was it after the violence, the white house counsel and advisors urged him to give a speech condemning the riders. >> we need to get a stronger message out and condemned this. have already broken the 25th amendment. >> he wanted to float the idea of pardons for those who broke into the capital. something he ultimately did not do. >> they seek that pardon. according to hodges and many others including meadows and giuliani sought pardons from trump. a once loyal republican committed to trump and his

mission, hutchison now says -- >> i remember feeling frustrated , disappointed, and it felt personal. i was really sad. as an american i was disgusted. it was unpatriotic, it was un- american. we were watching the capital building get defaced over a lie. >> the secret service is taking issue with the testimony, the story she told about the former president lashing out inside the presidential limo on january 6 for they say their agents are willing to testify to the committee under oath about what they experienced on the day. they say it's different than what hutchinson said. they also said those agents never told her that story. meanwhile, the committee

standing by hutchinson as a witness said she's credible. the fact she was willing to testify under oath demonstrates that level of credibility. a source connected to the committee telling me on background of the committees always welcome to hear from anyone who has information that would help with their investigation. >> thank you very much sir, appreciated. former counsel john dean and former assistant watergate prosecutor nick ackerman. good evening. john, let's start with you, you told me last night that the committee surprise hearing had to deliver a star witness like alex butterfield who testified about the secret taping system during watergate or cancel. did cassidy hutchinson meet that very high standard? >> she did meet it. in fact, she did better than butterfield. all butterfield could tell us was there was a taping system and it would take a long time to get those tapes so there is

no satisfaction. in fact, it would take decades to get all of them and the special prosecutor's office would get a few of them and enough to run a couple criminal trials she gave instant answers and filled us in. she was a dynamite witness and important witness. >> what would they say at today's hearing that it shows how much worse the insurrection was then watergate. as someone who prosecuted that case, who should be the most worried here about this testimony? >> i think donald trump should be the most worried about it. what this did is put knowledge in his head that he knew about the violence ahead of time and that he condoned the violence and knew that the people he was telling to go up to the capital and fight to protect the government and protect him, we are carrying arms and weapons.

he had knowledge of all of this . we knew up to two days before the january 6 insurrection that mike pence told donald trump that he was not going to throw the election and throw out the electoral votes back to the states. the only option that donald trump had at that point was to stop the count and stop it through violence. that was the plan. we did not have the proof that donald trump was behind that plan. new of that planet directed that plan until we got this testimony today. >> cassidy also testified about something they said to her the morning of january 6 about trump going to the capital building. i want to play more of that. >> he said something to the effect of please make sure we

don't go to the capital. keep in touch with me. we will get him charged with every crime imaginable if we make that move. >> dear member which crimes he was concerned with? >> in the days leading up to the six, we had conversations about potentially obstructing justice or defrauding the electoral count. >> a whole host of people knew about the potential for violence, the weapons, possible fraud. >> the fact that trump himself did not go to the capital did not mean he was still not part of two conspiracies. one which was to obstruct the congressional proceedings and the other that nick knows well caught most of the people in watergate which was a

conspiracy to defraud the government. good advice by counsel. what i can't understand is is why they're not coming forward and talking about it. he and philbin should be of their explaining why they gave the advice. i think they have an obligation to testify. >> they should be subpoenaed, wise the committee not going there and what about the doj? that was for nick to go ahead john. >> they should subpoena him. he's either going to be in

front of a grand jury soon talking about it and there is really no privilege here at issue. he should come up and explain to the american people for history for his 10 children and stop worrying about how many fees he can collect from republican clients and get down there and save democracy and work on that. a much bigger project for his 10 kids. >> i think the committee should subpoena him. is no reason they should sit back and let him snub his nose at the committee and not going provide testimony. i think they should force him in there. give a subpoena and question what happened. go through all these events that occurred. there's so much known about meetings he sat in on. in respect to what happened to the department of justice and inserting a new attorney

general. he was present the day of the insurrection. this is a person who can lay out everything that occurred, everything that donald trump did. the advice he gave him and the advice refused. he's a critical witness. >> tim is the former director of the nixon presidential library. it's hard to overstate the shock value of today's testimony demanding to lead the mob to the capital himself during plates on flipping tablecloth. talk to me about the portrait that cassidy hutchinson laid out. >> she made this investigation the most significant by congress

since the senate watergate investigation of 1973. she put the president in a criminal conspiracy. she made it clear for the white house the violence on capitol hill was premeditated. she made it clear that people around the president were trying to get him to stop the violence. we have wanted to understand those critical hours a very small group of capital police officers were trying to protect those protecting our votes. cassidy has begun the process of laying the groundwork for us to understand it. as john and nick have said we

need to know much more and hear from both pallone and mark meadows. we are hearing things about trump is worse than he tweeted. a lot of people argued everything we needed to know he was sharing with us. he was giving a taste of all elements of his dark side. no, in fact he wasn't. he never tweeted to us that he threw dishes against the walls or did not treat to us about how he physically tried to force his way to the capital on january 6. his behavior is worse than we imagined. there are elements of cassidy hutchinson's story that needs to be cooperated. just on the basis of what she witnessed, we know the president and those closest to him could have prevented the

tragedy and violence of january 6. that is something we cannot say with the same a lot of confidence before today. >> you call today's, he said it was watergate level and cassidy hutchison told the committee that trump finally said that biden would be inaugurated january 7th because there is a large concern the 25th amendment could be invoked. how big of a deal is it that this was ever considered? >> this would have been the first time the 20th amendment was considered. the fact that people around the president were fearful that his own cabinet was prepared to turn against him is a sense of the level of chaos in the white house and anxiety about the president's state of mind.

to those closest to him on generally six and january 7, there is a sense the president was out of control and it was important to reassure republicans, his own cabinet that he could continue. the level of anxiety, we heard bits and pieces but now we have actual testimony demonstration was coming apart and generally six and seven and the extent to which the president himself was not willing to do what was necessary. to this day is clear that donald trump does not believe that the insurrections was wrong. the only person donald trump felt was an error on january 6 was mike pence. >> right on. thank you, i appreciate it. next, more jaw-dropping

moments from today's january 6 committee hearing. is is a turning point in how the case moves forward? we talk about it, that is next. check out this backpack i i made for marco. only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ meltin', breadin', bakin', shreddin'. slicin', dicin', spicin', ricin'. if you're swissing it, then you're missing it. fryin', flyin', savorin', favorin'. over rotini. inside a panini. egging, maining, siding, plain-ing. debunk the inglorious. one shape's victorious. kraft singles. square it. ["only wanna be with you" by hootie & the blowfish] discover is accepted at 99% of places in the u.s. ["only wanna be with you" by hootie & the blowfish]

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>> cassidy hutchinson testimony today, shocking. even after everything we have seen and heard. and every president manning to go to the capital and saying and i'm quoting here, i am the president, the supporters were armed with a demand they be taken away because they insisted they were not there to hurt him. vertical analyst and co-author of this will not pass, trump,

biden, and the battle for america's future. also legal analyst corey cordero and political commentator charlie dent. good to see all of you, thank you so much for joining. hutchinson testified to hearing discussions about the proud boys, oath keepers, whenever rudy giuliani was around the time of the planning of the january 6 raleigh, and also testified that trump told mark meadows to ask allies at the willard hotel what was going to happen on that day. listen to this. >> do you know if mr. meadows ever intended to go to the hotel on the night of the six? it was mr. meadows had a conversation with me where he wanted me to work with secret service on a moving from the white house to the bullard hotel so he can attend the meeting with mr. giuliani and his associates. >> and what was their view as to whether or not mr. medal should go to the willard that night?

>> i had made it clear to mr. meadows that i did not believe it was a smart idea for him to go to the hotel that night and i was not sure everything that was going on at the hotel although i knew enough about mr. giuliani and his associates were pushing during this period. i didn't think it was something appropriate for the white house chief of staff to attend or consider involvement in. i made that clear to mr. meadows throughout the afternoon he mentioned a few more times going up to the hotel that evening and eventually dropped the subject the night of the fifth and said he would ihlen instead. >> listening to that, what do you think the committee is trying to do here? >> this was the part of the testimony that really left me wanting to know more. in particular about the conversations between meadows and giuliani and particularly in a timeframe between about

january 2nd and january 5th, sort of those few days leading up to january 6 because she testified that she had heard people talking about the proud boys and oath keepers. the big question that i had was with these hearings, all of them together this month and the ones that might come next month, are these hearings going to establish that the individuals closest to the president himself were part of the coordination of the violence that occurred? which involved the oath keepers and proud boys who the justice department has already charged with seditious conspiracy. that is still the piece i think there are more witnesses and more individuals who know what the nature of those conversations were, why did mark meadows worry or think according to cassidy hutchinson that there was going to be

violence on january 6th? that's the piece we are still missing a little bit of the facts. >> surely another moment from today's hearing were hutchinson recall the conversation with the giuliani in january 2nd, here it is. >> as we were walking to his vehicles that evening, he looked at me and said something to the effect of are you excited for the sixth? it's going to be a great day. a member looking at him saying could you explain what's happening on the six? he responded something to the effect of we are going to the capital, is going to be great. the president's going to be there, he's going to look powerful. >> on the same day generate second meadows told hutchinson that offense on the six could get out of control and be real bad. it sounds like there is no denying the chums allies knew something serious was possible on january 6.

>> it's very clear to me, it seems that many people around the president knew that this was all building up, this lie about the election was building up to the crescendo on january 6th and that they were going to go to the capital. whether or not they knew that there was going to be a violent attack, i simply don't know. what we do know and what must hutchinson has reaffirmed is that the president incited and sick them on the capital to attack congress to prevent it from fulfilling its constitutional duties to prevent the peaceful transfer of power. the question before us all is this. only the people who were attending, the attack, are those only people that will be held accountable for what happened that day? or those involved with this conspiracy, are they going to be held to account. gets back to wire all these

people seeking preemptive pardons. they did so because they thought they did something wrong. that's what this is about. we need to get the answers that kerry just laid out. her testimony today ostenson testimony really begs for more questions to be asked of those who could provide additional information and is trump is thinking that everybody is lying about what happened that they maybe he should just raise his right hand and go to the select committee and tells the truth. >> so alex, there's also this account of trump throwing a plate of food at the wall after bill barr then told trump there was no election fraud. he wrote a lot about what happened in the final days of trump presidency. what does this tell you about his mindset as all this is unfolding. >> this flushes out in more detail we have ever heard from somebody that close to trump and his senior staff personally, the president at a time, and eyewitness at the time

of just how much the president was out of control and just how much he was subjecting the people closest to him and government including longtime loyalist like bill barr to just increasingly outrageous loyalty test based on his conception of what happened in the 2020 election. what i think the committee is doing an excellent job of is dismantling this theoretical defense that the president and his pounds garden lawyers might give him a trial and looking severely believable. it cannot be a fraud, cannot be a conspiracy to overthrow the government and generally did not realize what he was doing was wrong and dangerous and based on fraudulent representations about what happened in the 2020 election. every hearing that pretense falls a bit more.

it was a way to stick around, we will continue the conversation. she was aid to the chief of staff and what she said went on behind closed doors is stunning. the man who broke the book on white house chief of staff chris ripple is here with me. [lazer beam and sizzling sounds]

♪

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>> advisors knew that mr. trump did not want to necessarily take immediate action and condemned the riots. but knowing something needed to be done. and then the last group which was deflect and blame. let's blame nt for, these are not our people. it's my understanding that mr. meadows was in the deflecting

blame category but he did end up taking a more neutral route knowing there were several advisors in the president's circle urging him to take more action. >> chris is the author of the gatekeepers how they define the presidency. thank you for joining us. >> here's what hutchinson is describing. three counts of what went down. meadows sticking with the deflecting blame side of things , to neutral. you called him the worst chief of staff in history. >> back in january 2021 i anointed him as the worst chief and he owned that title by a country mile as you know. not only did he raise efficacy to an art form, never telling the president hard truths, he also helped the president pretend there is no pandemic.

costing how many hundreds of thousands of lives in the process. the truth is, i did not know the half of it or how bad it was. turns out that we learned that meadows was a co-conspirator and he and trump knew exactly what they were doing. they sent an armed mob to attempt an insurrection at the capital and he did not care how many lives it costs. that's what we learned today. and it's staggering. i think the defining image of mark meadows, i used to think it used to be him at the ellipse of the morning of january 6 holding trumps coat as he went out to inside the mob. i now think it will be the chief of staff sitting on the couch in his office scrolling through his cell phone while the mob attacked the capital. almost the definition of the finality of evil.

>> describing how meadows reacted to the right here. >> from 2:00 to 205, we were watching the tv i could see the riders were getting closer and closer to the capital. he had not said anything about it. i went into his office and saw he was sitting on his couch he was just kind of scrolling and typing. i asked if he was watching the tv chief? and he was like yeah. they are getting really close heavy talk to the president and he said no, he wants to be alone right now. still looking at his phone. so i start to get frustrated. i sort of felt like this was not

a great comparison a bad car accident i was about to happen. you want to be able to do something. i just remember thinking in that moment mark needs to snap out of this and i don't know how to snap him out of this but he needs to care. >> you cannot get that image out of your head. >> it's just hard to imagine the level of moral bankruptcy here. just to say a word about cassidy hutchinson, obviously courageous, credible, as he watched her you cannot help wondering how defending your oath to uphold the constitution or knowing right from wrong could be so easy for a 26-year- old woman in her second job in the white house and evidently

impossible for a grown-up who sworn oath as white house chief of staff to defend and utterly failed. she was heroic. >> you said it, you wrote about it. the worst in history and here you had this picture today. >> alarming testimony from a top white house aide showing how close the cabinet came to invoking the 25th amendment, that is next.

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up to a $650 prepaid card with a qualifying bundle. alarming testimony to the january 6 committee revealing how thursday the 25th amendment was being considered inside the cabinet following the attack on the capital and back with me now is alex burns, and charlie dent. so, you first, hutchison testifying that then secretary of state mike told meadows after the riot that cabinet secretaries were discussing invoking the 25th. pompeo is a staunch trump loyalist for the new in the moment that the president was such that he could not be trusted to carry out his duties . even a small amount of time left in his term. >> that's right. it's something that has been reported in the past.

republican congressional leaders were talking about the six. required for intelligence on the ninth of january 6 about whether he was on the table in the cabinet. reported republican senators were talking to white house officials including the white house counsel. by the possibility of the 25th amendment. this is the most important on the public confirmation so far that he figures prominent as a sitting secretary at state was allegedly contemplating that as an option. this at the time, 14 days left on the presidents term, people absolutely closest to him and involved in the most sensitive operations did not believe that did not have the confidence he could be trusted to keep it on much longer. >> we learned that the closest allies including meadows wanted him to give the january 7th speech in part to tamp down the

threats of the cabinet trying to oust him hutchinson revealed and went through several drafts, listen to this. >> several lines did not make it in there about calling them filing. he wanted to put it in the he wanted to potentially pardon them. and with the increased emphasis of his mindset at the time which was he did not think they did anything wrong and the people who did something wrong that they the person who does something wrong that they was mike pence. >> of talk about legally, anything in the strasser conversations that could expose him? >> is going back from it from the context which was the conversation of the 25th amendment. i never thought the 20 for the amendment was really the right remedy and to the extent the committee is exploring after the testimony, it is useful

from creating a historical record perspective but i think what miss hutchinson's testimony shows, it was not that he was unable to effectuate the duties of the office which is what the 25th amendment is about. but he did not want to. what he wanted was for the riders to storm the capital. what he wanted was to remain in office despite the outcome of the national election. i think what it shows is that first of all, the cabinet never did invoke the 25th the member. whether people talked about it they never actually did it. and i think her testimony shows exactly what it is he was trying to achieve leading up and on january 6. >> even as a country is still reeling, trump wotton to pardon the riders. what does that say about his state of mind? >> again he was behaving so recklessly and so dangerously

that those closest to him actually thought about having him removed from office. and what frustrated me when i was in congress during the trump administration is how many times i would speak with people close to this president and would tell me how crazy he was, they would say crazy and they would just say and i would tell my i would say no, it's much worse than you think. and we got hoar of that today. the fact he wanted to pardon people who violently attacked the capitol and attacking police officers speaks to his disconnection with reality on what happened a that time and how consequential this all was and is and remains. prr it's almost inexplicable he would contemplate a pardon for people who committed such horrific acts on that day. >> thank you all of you. i appreciate it.

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good evening. anderson cooper here in washington along with jake tapper. the january 6th committee for which no adjective is positive. how ado you adeit nigh information that the commander and chief allegedly was literally, as in