one of the many threads running through the tapestry of the hearings is the indifference, at best, to violence committed in his name

and inclouding the now notoriou tweet about then vice president pence. >> do you remember seeing the tweet about the vice president did not have the courage to do what needed to be done? >> i do. >> hot was your reaction when you saw this tweet? >> as a staffer that works to always represent the administration to the best of my ability, and to showcase the good things that he had done for the country, i remember feeling frustrated, disappointed, and really it felt personal. i was really sad. as an american i was disgusted.

it was unpatriotic. unamerican. we were watching the capitol building get defaced over a lie. >> with me now "washington post" associated editor, bob a woodwardand former white house nixon counsel, john dean. bob woodward, we should notice is more recently the co author of "peril" and buernstein of "chasing history." and a new forward on what the watergate scandal means today. i hear the amazon links clicking right now from where i sit. much of the former president's time in the white house was about, in some ways it seems, p provoking violence. was this the first time you've heard through testimony about him actually resorting to anger

and violence himself? >> yes, it definitely is. one of the things that struck me, if i may say in all of the testimony and it connects to john dean going back to nixon 50 years ago. cipollone, the white house counsel for trump if you fall though testimony and other things that have come out, he's just running around the white house bursting with don't listen to donald trump, don't do what the president says. i'm worried about this. i'm with worried about that and carl and i were speculating today with knowledge that one of the things the white house counsel does is sit in on national security council meetings and is involved as some of the most sensitive issues. if i recall correctly, john dean, as he was coming out

against nixon socked away some top secret documents, which nixon had signed to say that he was the lifting restrictions on wire tapping and break ins and so forth. so, what else does cipollone know? i think he knows volumes. >> you told anderson earlier that a former white house aid helped paint the picture in her testimony of a, quote, mad king. how important a witness do you think hutchinson was some and what stood out to you the most? >> along the lines of john dean because she has now give an coherent, contextual picture of a president out of control with no regard for the constitution, for the orderly transfer of power, who would stage a coup. we haven't had testimony from anybody else like that. what is the most important thing

that has come out today, that is we now understand that this committee, block by block, is putting together the picture of a coup, let by the president of the kwunited states, who would allow himself, knowing there are people in the trees with arms, with lethal arms, people at his rally and he's saying it's okay that they're there. they like me. the assumption being they'll shoot other people. they won't shoot me. come on. let's talk about what is the insanity of this. and republicans on capitol hill, and this is the shame of this whole proceeding. republicans on capitol hill have known about this donald trump from the beginning of his presidency. bob will tell you the same thing. we have been hearing about this. this is the extreme end of it but it is now been known for four years what and who this individual was and mary trump,

his niece, has told us also exactly who he is. and that's what we're learning today and that he was will withing to stage a coup so there would not be, for the first time in history, the peaceful transfer of power. >> do you think it was criminal? >> i certainly think there's a pr prima facie case of criminality. i think he's tried to object the proceedings. there's a statute that prohibits that. i think he was clearly involved in what was the crucial crime at watergate was a conspiracy to defraud the united states. 18 usc 371. those cases have been made. now, when he engaged in fraud

and fundraise with his defense fu fund and all that, we'll get into all that. there is clearly criminal conduct, not to mention insane behavior for an adult man who is the president of the united states. >> bob, i want toplay more of what former white house aid said in her testimony. let's listen in. >> you described roughly three different camps of thought inside the white house that day. can you tell us about those >> there were a group of individuals strongly encouraging us to take action. i would classify white house counsel's office in that category of really working to get him to take action and pleading with him to take action. there's a more neutral group

where advisors were trying to tow the line knowing that mr. trump didn't necessarily want to take immediate action and condemn the riots. but knowing something needed to be done and then there was the last group, which was deflect and blame. let's blame an teef aau. an teefau. these aren't our people. >> i think that's a precise description. but i've spent hours interviewing trump in 2020 and he's a very determined person and very hard to move him but all of these individuals could never go to him or never find a way to stop it because where are

the people in there, instead of trump throwing ketchup at the sfwhau wall? where are the staff people pounding on the table saying you can't do this? or saying i'm going to resign. i'm going to leave. i'm going to the press. i'm going to go to the congress. with all of the boldness in this testimony, there is a collective weakness among all of these people. >> bob woodward and john dean, thank you so much. and i want to talk about the so-called war room at the willard hotel with john eastman, rudy giuliani and a whole cast of characters. today for the first time we heard testimony about it. what cassidy hutchinson told the committee ties her former boss, then white house chief of staff

mark meadows, more closely to it. something she didn't think was appropriate. >> is it your understanding mr. giuliani, mr. eastman and others had set up what has been called, quote, a room room on the might of the fifth at the willard hotel? >> i was aware of that the night of the fifth. >> and do you know if m mr. meadows intended to go the night of the fifth some. >> mr. meadows had a conversation with me where he wanted me to work with secret service on a movement from the white house to the will withered hotel so he could attend the meeting or meetings with mr. giuliani and his associates in the "war room." >> and what was your view as to whether or not mr. meadow should go to the willard that night. >> i had made it clear to mr. meadows that i didn't believe it was a smart idea for him to go to the willard hotel that night. i wasn't sure everything going on at the willard hotel,

although i knew enough about what mr. giuliani and his associates were pushing during this period, i didn't think it was something appropriate for-white house chief of staff to attend or to consider involvement in. i made that clear to mr. meadow es. throughout the afternoon, he mentioned a few more times going up to the willard hotel that evening and then eventually dropped the subject the night of the fifth and said he would dial in instead. >> carl bernstein remains with us. joining him, cornish and casey hunt. jaime, you've done a lot of reporting about this "war room" at the willard hotel. what's so significant about this? meadows calling in to them? >> let me go back to what white house chief of staff needs to be leaving the white house the night before and we now know everyone knows that there's

going to be trouble tomorrow and he's running over to a war room with rudy giuliani at the willard hotel? and it took -- cassidy is now 26. she was 24. shed to the be the one to tell him this really isn't appropriate to go. one of the footnotes. there were so many bombshells and cinematic moments. let's talk about the fact that she testified rudy's walking around talking about the oath keepers and the proud boys. my understanding is, in the hearings to come, you know better than anyone that we are going to see more and more of a connection between some of these gr groups and the white house is that time about rudy is an interesting starting point. >> it's so critical at this point that you raise. and for a couple of reasons.

first of all the criminalty question. they've either been indicted or in the process of being prosecuted. tying it to those cases is significant. >> cases for seditious conspiracy. that's what oath boys and proud boys have been charged. the leaders. go ahead. >> you're fine. that's a critical point what they've been charged for. this potentially charges rudy giuliani and others to those crimes. and from a political perspective, this is continuing the thread the committee started,b which is to separate generic trump supporters who were there for what they describe as general political reasons because the president told them to show up. they went. they didn't go with zip ties, etc. these are the kinds of people the committee is describing as

people misled by the lie of the president. they're willing to give those people a pass. that's important politically because in order to make a difference here, they have -- and liz cheney has looked at americans and tried to make this point to them repeatedly, to say you're misled. it's disappointing, it's hard to accept that the president did this to you but this is what's going on. you need to see it. the more they can emphasize this was about the white house being tied to these specific criminal groups, the easier to make that political case to people who may have voted to trump, for them to say no to that guy. >> i mean, there's been a couple of things to underscore, which is there were toss off phrases you heard. things that, as reporters, we were scrambling to figure out. now we're getting the color, contour and atmosphere of those moments of the president fully understanding and being told multiple times you did not win

the election. the plate story is a great example. the idea of him throwing a plate in anger. why? well, the december 1st article, bill barr is saying we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have effected a different outcome in the election. the plate's going to get the attention but the issue is again, it's a moment where the president is sitting with the knowledge that he has been told by his chief legal -- the doj, that you're wrong and yet everything we're about to see unfold still unfolds. >> and there's a moment when cassidy hutchinson describes trump wanting to get meadows to put him in touch with roger stone and mike flynn to find out more about plans for january 6th. >> that's exactly right. because where is the operational heart of the conspiracy and when? it's that night, january 5 in

the willard hotel. and meadows is the go between. meadows is the key conspirator here. he is the guy -- health go back to watergate for a moment. who was the key the conspiracy of watergate and cover up? it was nixon's chief of staff, bob hauledman and the committee knows this. the same role at the heart of the conspiracy is meadows. he is the go between between the president and these guys. he knows what the president wants. we are now hearing this amazing testimony that all starts to fit together. and one of the things the committee is doing is putting together a tiktok. a tiktok minute by minute beginning before the election and going all the way through january 6th and what happened subsequently. it fits together in a way that's explicable. for it's not about

being in the weeds. in a way most americans i think can understand. >> there is new reporting on a name, senator ron johnson. today cnn tried to speak to the loyalist about possible evidence that indicated he was involved in the fake electoral-scheme and then this happened. >> how much did you know about what your chief of staff was doing with the alternate slats of electors? i can see your phone. i can see your screen. does your choef of staff still work for you, senator? why was your chief of staff even offering this to the vice

president? >> can't fool a reporter with a phone trick. it doesn't work. he wasn't on the phone. and one of the reporters caught up with him again today. what did senator johnson have to say about today's hearing? >> well, nothing, anderson. in fact, on the way in and out of an event he had this afternoon oin milwaukee, i tried to ask him questions about the hearing, what happened and other issues as well. on the way in, he didn't want toance aer questions and on the way out, he snuck out and declined to answer any questions. watch.

>> senator johnson, you have time for questions, please? so, he has been under a lot of pressure after saying the senator wanted to deliver fake electors for wisconsin and mg pg. michigan. he's also down played january 6th saying it wasn't an armed insurrection. and when i tried to ask about that as well, no response. >> hiss response about it wasn't an insurrection, there weren't weapons, it looked particularly bad today. understandable he would want to flee, even though he didn't uses the phone excuse this time. >> reporter: that's right. and the democrats -- he's up for re-election in a difficult race. this is the perennial swing state. democrats have come after him on this issue.

several opponents have went as far as calling him a traitor to this country. johnson wants nothing to do with these issues. he wants to talk about economy, inflation, joe biden's agenda and not talking about the abortion ruling that came down last week. democrats are pointing other issues johnson clearly does not want to respond to. >> joining us now chief senior analyst and political correspondent griffon. former trump white house director of strategic communications and i want your reaction to the statement of cassidy hutchinson's recorded testimony about a conversation before january 6th with white house counsel cipollone. >> having a private conversation with pat late in the third o r

fourth. pat was upset we would mess -- sorry about my legal terms here. that it would look like we were obstructing what was happening on capitol hill. he was also worried it would look like we were inciting a riot or encouraging a riot at-capitol. >> i mean, is that the closest we're going to get to pat cipollone testifying? >> probably. but it's enormously important in and of itself. because one of the crucial issues is what did thepeople in vauchblt here, including the president know what was illegal. was this a good-faith effort or did they know they were committing crimes. if you listen on the statutes

she was referring to, it's exactly right. pat cipollone understood exactly what the risks were here and the thing we're really missing is what kapgdss did he have with president trump? presumably he said the same thing to president trump. you're violating the law if you continue to do what you're doing. and the fact he was is extremely important. >> it seems like pat cipollone was running around like chicken little saying look, we're going to get charged with every crime madge nnl. he said we cannot possibly do this. you cannot replace the acting attorney general with mr. clark and over and over again. pat cipollone was saying mow, no, no. but nobody was listening to him. donald trump, at that point, correct me if i'm wrong, didn't

like pat cipollone very much, even though he defended him on the floor of the senate during impeachment. you have your white house counsel trying to set up a human speed bump and everyone ran him over. >> you know who listened? the doj at one point. think how many times we've heard his name mentioned when doj, richard donahue. we heard from the vice president's counsel i believe talking about the same thing. the idea -- this was not a knee jerk reaction. these are contemp luative people by the very nature of their positions. they're well aware and what they're talking about is we might get arrested or charged? yeah, because that's what you're doing. you're telling people march to the capitol. these were not things out of thin air. these are things seemed to be more and more premeditated and

they knew there was a problem. >> the thing i know from my time in the trump white houses is is people gave advice and a moment that stuck out to me is they called cassidy hutchinson to say don't go to the capple prr. and he was going to the chief of staff, which was met with a closed door. that was true but especially in the final few months. i'm not sure what got to the former president in terms of this is illegal. you can't do this. there was a fear factor involved. >> the betrayal of the former president, did it ring true to you? remind you of times there or was it a different donald trump in the dark days of early january.

>> there's the side of trump very affable and enjoyable to be around and then the side that's angry and unpredictable. i saw both sides consistently when i was there. but it did start to unravel in the final days. i think close aids started to walk away or disconnect and not show up regularly. that's when the rudy giuliani's got to him. and from the testimony mark meadows is scrolling on his phone, rather than give sound counsel. >> ornato got to trump and said there are weapons at this rally. this is dangerous. told him directly. i get a sense you only got to trump when you really had to get to trump. >> i'm sorry a. that was the smoking gun to me. he knew there were weapons and -- >> a lot of the people with the

weapons are being prosecuted right now and they are getting enhanced sentences because they had weapons. now you have the president of the united states knowing that they had weapons, still encouraging them to head to the capitol. so, how is it fair and just that they get prosecuted and the person who was ultimately responsible does not get prosecuted? that's a question for the justice department. >> thanks so much. coming up next, reaction on ca. it'll hill with law makers who lived with it and the president's attitude as the violent mob attacked their workplace.

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saying we need to do something. and he said you heard him he thinks mike deserves it. they're not doing anything wrong. pat said this is f'ing kradsy. we need to be doing something more. >> he thinks pence deserves it. that was cassidy hutchinson testifying about a conversation she says she heard between white house counsel pat cipollone and her boss, mark meadows. the conversation was about the former president's reaction when he was told the kroutds were chanting hang mike pence. hang mike pence. joined by ryan nobles. ryan, what's been the are reaction on capitol hill today, especially since so many people there experienced january 6th in real time and we saw video of many of them panicking-and it's

on partisan lines, which is a surprise. i was in the hearing room and saw a number of democratic members who came to witness for themselves. many were tweeting as information was being relaid, angry about what they were hearing. reuben, for instance, suggesting the former president basically set he and his colleagues up on purpose purpose; that he wanted hem to be the victim of violence and it made them angry. has been a markedly different rea from republicans. in the beginning, the republicans were trying to discount the value of the testimony, saying that democratess were focusing on the ya wrong issues. they should be focussed on the border and other things. they quickly turned to being concerned about the conflict of the secret service testimony verses what happened in the limo.

not really getting to the substance of what the former president wanted to doon that day and that was get to the capitol which would have inflamed a difficult 1i67uation and it's interesting what they're telling us privately. many have reached out to me and my colleague and have said what they heard alarmed them. they're not willing to say this publicly and some going so far as to believe they were learning things they had not known previously. and that follow as pattern we have seen with many republicans who have raised alarms about the former president privately but not willing to daso publicly. and what the committee has said time and time again is they want everyone to come forward who has information that could help and that includes republicans who may have been reluctant to do so in the past. as we've seen time and time again really the most important witnesses have beening the

process who had first-hand knowledge of what happened in the days after the election leading up to january 6th. >> almost all of the witness withes have been republicans and conservative trump-supporting republicans. and one wonders what if the mob had gotten its hands on mike pence, would anything be different right now? back with the panel. you heard what ryan noble said. look, honestly, i'm at a loss. i honestly think it's a fair question . it's now become a liberal point of view that mike pence should not have been hanged. if you believe that. if you say donald trump should have stopped the mob, the mob should not have tried to kill mike pence, somehow that's a liberal point of view. >> facts mean nothing.

facts have meant nothing for four years of the presidency, the post presidency and campaign of donald trump. and facts have meant nothing to the republicans that have been silent. i want to talk about reporting for a moment. i finally got really tired of it and you know oi wrote a story and put it on the air saying 21 republican members of the senate, and i named them, have believed donald trump, they hold him in contempt, disdain, etc. there's one or two denials out of 21. a a day or two later i get a call from a former member of the senate and say the number is closer to forty. how do we start to cover when we know from members of the president's own party, whether it's joe biden's party, donald trump's party, how to we start to cover this differently? yes, we get information,

background. it's off the record. but we have to talk about some responsibility to get this news out and we can't use the old rules all the time. i don't give a dam. democrat, republican. our responsability. you know woodward and i have used this, the best attainable version of the truth. for 50 years we've used it. not saying what you know is part of it. and i think we got to deal with this differently. perhaps the story, history of the trump presidency, might be different if we had done this. >> cassidy hutchinson, to be the top aid for mark meadows in december 2020, january 2021, means you a believer in donald trump. you are loyal to donald trump. cassidy hutchinson put everything on the line today. to tell the truth. and the republican party, who is

allegiance to donald trump, either is attacking her, smearing her or ignoring her. >> right. wore going to see what we've seen so many times before, which is they are going to try to take her down because that's what donald trump wants. to carl's point about public and private. even today, while they are attacking her, privately, here were the messages i got from republicans. it is worse than we ever imagined. this is not one bombshell, it's multiple. my god, he wanted to go to the capitol. again, the private verses the public. can we go back to mike pence for one second though and talk about the gallos. i think so much of whut we saw today and heard from cassidy hutchinson about -- from all of her testimony about top white house aids has to go to intent. they knew it was coming.

i point to the gallos because someone didn't run out oin the middle of the day and get the wood. someone thought about that ahead of time. my white wahale is the pipe bomber. that was planted ahead of time and what's most striking to me is how many people spoke to cassidy hutchinson and she heard this was coming. >> and you talked about how you thought one of the most important moments was cipollone saying we're going to be charged with every imaginable crime if trump goes to the capitol. the one i found most devastating was cassidy hutchinson overhearing trump talk in the tent, saying he wanted the magnetometers removed because he wanted the crowd to be bigger than it was and the fact metal detecters were keeping his armed supporters out of the area was

making the crowd look smaller. sdwl >> it's another cinematic moment. the reason you're pointing out it's interesting is because one of the big defenses by trump of trump by his allies is it's a crowd of people that got out of hand. today is one of the days the committee is trying to underscore and undermine that defense to say actually not only were there people with knives, pistols, spears but the president and his security folks were informed and informing him of that, right? so, it's not just about the mags. it's trying to show everybody what it means. >> and they were armed and said then we're going to march to the capitol. they don't want to hurt me. >> he said let them in. they're not going to hurt me and encourages them to march down to the capitol. this is the president of the united states who is basically taking what he knows is an armed group of his own supporters and

telling them march on the capitol and do what you wi will meanwhile, woe have a lot of question withes about why it took the defense department so long to authorize the national guard to show up at the capitol. it's all incredibly astonishing. to the big picture point you were making is it's not going to matter to people who really are trump's hard core supporters. it's not. and how do we get around that? >> thank you so much. more eye-opening testimony ahead, including a response to a very easy question, put to a former trump national security advisor and retired three-star u.s. general. do you believe in a peaceful transition of power? michael flynn's answer or lack thereof when we are return.

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we heard a lot of disturbing things at the january 6th hearing. including michael flynn's response to simple questions. >> do you believe the violence january 6th was justified? >> can i get a clarification? is that a moral question some >> i'm asking both . >> i said the fifth.

>> do you believe the violence january 6th was justified morally? >> take the fifth. >> you believe the violence january 6th was justified legally? >> fifth. >> general flynn, do you believe in the peaceful transfer of power in the united states of america some. >> the fifth. >> those were not hard questions to answer but flynn wouldn't do so. violence is never justified in a presidential transfer of power. and president of history at rice university joins us. where do today's hearings stack up in history to you think? >> i mean, water gate's on everybody's lips. and cassidy hutchinson was the john dean of her testimony. donald trump has to be cringing

disbelief. she delivered all the kns. there's nothing like this since the civil war. we've never had a president or in american history be the poster child of sedition and that's what we saw trump today and they're going to be a lot of scenes of this. the plate smashing and the ketchup and i'm the f'ing president. but the fact is the president of the united states didn't care that there were armed rioters on the capitol and said they're not going to hurt me, meaning they might hurt pence or pelosi or member of congress is lead -- leads one to the conclusion that department of justice will indict donald trump. so, this is a story with legs. >> i actually don't think he's cringing today watching this. i think, if you have a sense of shame, you would cringe. i think he justifiesi in his ow mind everything he did.

has there ever been a president in the darkest days of any scandal who embraced violence to such a degree? who encouraged rioters who were seeking to kill his vice president? >> no. and obviously, this is unprecedented. herbert hoover with the army, turned the military on veterans in the mall. it's not going to be the behavior of donald trump in the suv and did he or did he not try to lunge at the drivers of secret services? that's all interesting, all important. the fact of the matter is this was a riot and insurrection. and the president was basically green lighting blood shed as long as it wasn't his own. there's no president that's ever acted this reprehensible. this is a twice impeached president who tried to have a cue on the united states. and the january 6th

investigation's gone on for a year. it's been sizzling. and the reason i said he might be cringing is he is now in legal jeopardy i think of a different order than he was, say, 24 hours ago. that's how devastating cassidy hutchinson's voice was today. and she now becomes sort of a hero. listen to hutchinson and liz cheney, you see voices of democracy at last standing up in a real way. and i'm waiting to see vice president pence and mark meadows end up testifying. let's hope they don't take the fifth the way general flynn did in such a cowardly fashion. >> have things in america been so polarized, where people just believe what they want to believe? many of the former presidents think it's all political and they're not even paying attention to it? has that happened throughout his history? >> not for a president.

but if you look at joe mccarthy, who we've all said trump is a lot like, you can see the seeds of this in the mccarthy era. but he was a wisconsin senator, not president of the united states. but he was trying to lead dark forces forward. there was an interesting article about looking at the power of the kkk in the 1920s and that's who in the 1920s supporting segregation back then. i think there's some parallels to the trump forces. a lot of this is about race. >> appreciate it. thanks. i know you want to end the evening op on a key questioned today. >> one of the big questions about the investigation is whether there's a nexus between donald trump and the oath keepers and proud boys. many charged with sedition conspiracy for the actions attack the capitol that day. are there witnesses that describe actual conversations

between these extremist groups and anyone in trump orbit? >> yes. >> there will be? >> yes. obviously you have to go through the hearings. we have a number of witnesses who have come forward that people have not talked to before. >> we learned today from former top trump white house aide, cassidy hutchinson, and from the committee that the far right groups were part of the conversation in the days leading up to january 6th. >> the white house continued to receive updates about planned demonstrations including information regarding the proud boys organizing and planning to attend events on january 6. >> liz cheney noted on january 3, the capitol police issued a special event assessment warning that the proud boys and other groups would be in d.c. on january 6 and quote congress

itself is the target. >> i recall hearing the word oath keeper and hearing the word proud boys closer to the planning of the january 6 rally. when mr. giuliani would be around. >> cassidy hutchinson talked with mark meadows about giuliani telling her that donald trump would lead a march to the capitol on january 6. telling meadows this -- >> interesting conversation with rudy and mark. sounds like we're going good at the capitol. he didn't look up from his phone and said something to the effect of, there's a lot going on but i don't know, things might get real bad on january 6. >> there's so much we still do not know about the ties of the extremist groups to the trump team. proud boys leader visited the trump white house on december 12, 2020, he claimed to have been invited.

the white house at the time insisted that he was on a public white house christmas tour and didn't have a meeting with donald trump nor did the white house invite him. is that true? or was it like so much we were told by the trump white house in december 2020 a complete and utter lie? there are others. with direct ties to these groups. such roger stone. >> is it your understanding mr. meadows called mr. stone on the fifth? >> i'm under the impression meadows did complete both a call to stone and general flynn. the evening of the fifth. >> now, committee vice chair liz cheney noted that cassidy hutchinson has no detailed knowledge of any planning involving the proud boys for january 6. unquote. but the committee does seem to be suggesting that none of this is a coincidence. >> on january 5 and 6, mr. stone

was photographed with multiple members of the oath keepers. who were allegedly serving as his security detail. >> in fact, oath keeper hours after being seen with roger stone outside the hotel, was photographed on steps at the eastern side of the capitol wearing goggles and other equipment. he is also seen in images near flynn in december. he was arrested last march. he pleaded not guilty for his role in the insurrection. described by prosecutors as having quote forcibly stormed the u.s. capitol equipped with military style gear. unquote. oath keeper josh james who pleaded guilty to sedition conspiracy three months ago and now cooperating with the justice department investigation, he also provided security for stone. at the hotel. where today we heard mark

meadows was beckoned. >> do you know if mr. meadows ever intended to go to the hotel on the night of the fifth? >> mr. meadows had a conversation with me where he wanted me to work with secret service on a movement from the white house to the hotel. so he could attend the meeting. or meetings with mr. giuliani and his associates. in the war room. >> and what was your view as to whether or not me should go to the hotel that night? >> i had made it clear to him that i didn't believe it was a smart idea for him to go to the hotel that night. throughout the afternoon, he mentioned a few more times going up to the hotel that evening. and then eventually dropped the subject the night of the fifth and said he would dial in instead. >> we do not know what me discussed with stone or flynn or anyone else who may have been on the call.

or why the names of the oath keepers and proud boys far right would be mentioned close to the planning of january 6. when giuliani was around as cassidy hutchinson testified urn oath. our answers to those questions relevant to this testimony today? >> did rudy giuliani ever suggest that he was interested or receiving a presidential pardon related to january 6? >> he did. >> did white house chief of staff mark meadows ever indicate he was interested in receiving a presidential pardon related to january 6? >> he did seek that pardon, yes, ma'am. >> what exactly did giuliani and meadows feel they needed pardons for? we reach out to them for comment. they didn't respond. giuliani tweeted minutes ago that he told president trump he didn't want or need a pardon. we should note of course he didn't tweet under oath. many bomb shells came together. we will see if others come in future hearings.

>> another historic day here in washington. thank you. thank you all the guests. the news continues, don lemon picks it up right after this. plus, patients get 20% off their treatment plan. we're on your corner and in your corner every step of the way. because your anything is our everything. aspen dental. anything to make you smile. book today at aspendental.com, walk in, or call 1-800-aspendental.

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