then were able to locate her at a hostile. they arrested her there. she was picked up on an immigration violation for using a fraudulent passport. she's going to be extradited back to the united states. she'll face that murder charge in austin, texas, which occurred on may 18th. and on top of that, anderson, she'll face a federal charge for unlawful flight to avoid prosecution. >> just very quickly, did the person whose passport she was using know about it? >> reporter: that's what's unclear. the marshals couldn't say. she just said she resembled that person. it's unclear how she got that passport or if they knew. she did change her appearance as well, anderson. short hair instead of the long, blonde hair she had. the news continues. i want to hand it over to sara sidner and "cnn tonight." -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com thank you. and this is "cnn tonight." new information is coming to light pertaining to a star witness for the january 6th committee. did donald trump's inner circle try to keep cassidy hutchinson from speaking the truth about what she knows, and is that a

crime? according to three cnn sources t former aide to then white house chief of staff mark meadows told the panel she was contacted by someone in the trump camp attempting to influence her testimony. remember those messages vice chair liz cheney read aloud at tuesday's hearing alluding to possible witness intimidation. the gop congresswoman didn't name names but she relayed accounts of two unidentified witnesses who said they were pressured by people close to the ex-president to, quote, do the right thing, be loyal to donald trump, reminding them trump would be paying close to attention to their words. the committee suggests it has many other examples of witness tampering, which is of course a very serious crime. is that what is happening here? and will the doj be looking into this? >> they believe they could affect testimony of witnesses before the committee. oits a very serious issue, and i

imagine the department of justice would be very interested in and take that seriously as well. >> the two investigations going on, congressional and criminal, are showing signs of clashing again. there's friction over access to transcripts of interviews the committee conducted that the justice department wants. "the new york times" reporting federal prosecutors were just as surprised by hutchinson's testimony this week as anyone else watching and left feeling blindsided. but at the same time the select committee is expressing frustration with the pace of criminal indictments and the doj opting not to -- house subpoenas. opting not to charge some who failed to comply with those house subpoenas. >> i am frustrated, for instance, that mark meadows and dan scavino have refused to come in and talk to congress. we have the power of subpoena similar to what a court has and the justice department has failed to indict them for that. all it does is send a message you just have to resist the select committee and you may be able to resist all penalty. that's been a frustration.

>> federal agents moved in on some of trump's allies in recent days, searching the home of jeffrey clark, a former justice department official who almost became acting attorney general and seizing the phone of lawyer john eastman, two central figures in the plot to help keep trump in power. both had a bright spotlight shined on them in the congressional hearings. so, will the two investigations come together in the days and weeks to come? and what will justice for the attack on the capitol on january 6th look like in the end? let's take it around the table to cnn political commentator and attorney bakar ri sellers, "new york times" editorial writer, and former federal prosecutor, shan wu. i'm going to start with you, shan. does the doj seem a bit behind the eight-ball here? compared to what the committee has been pumping out regularly. >> they're definitely behind the game right now. that's probably why they are feeling frustrated at not getting these transcripts buchlt there's good reasons for the

committee not to want to hand over those transcripts. we don't know what kind of promises were made, the parameters of those witness interviews. and also, i think, from a perspective of are they a congressional investigation or are they just an arm of the justice department, it's important for them not to look like they're just being weaponized by the justice department. >> the separation between the different agencies is really important. separation of powers. all right. here's what jamie raskin said. i want to go to this -- about why there isn't more cooperation and sort of leading to what we were just talking about. >> they're not just turning everything they have over to us because they're governed by particular guidelines and strictures and it's the exact same thing with us.

it's a separation of powers. and they have all the same investigative authorities and powers we have, including the subpoena power. >> raskin talking to the laura coates there. this is for everybody. i will start with you. is that a good enough answer? does that make sense to you? a lot of people watching this think, how can these two things be so disparate? >> i think the reason they say that is because for the last four years you saw a president and executive branch weaponize the department of justice. and there is a effort to make sure they maintain some sort of independence, psuedoindependence, or whatever you may want to call it. i have full faith. a lot of my colleagues don't. i still have faith in merrick garland. i know he's not the most popular person in the administration right now because of what people perceive to be a lack of action. but i do think that there is a reason that he did not press charges against mark meadows and dan scavino. i think that there are things they are working, cooking up. charges may be brought in the future. it may just not be contempt of congress. so, i have a lot of faith that the full power of the federal government is going to find out

what happened and prosecute those. the big question, the million dollar question or the $45 question is will they prosecute the 45th president of the united states. >> right. that is a huge one. it is very different to have the committee looking at this than building a case that is prosecutable. michelle, i want to ask you about witness tampering, a lot of people talking about that. because these are not crimes that are being looked at of what happened before. these are crimes that os stens bli are currently happening. is this putting a fire under the doj? >> you know, there's the political truism that it's never the crime. it's the cover-up. and in this case, witness tampering is a much more straightforward charge to come with than, say, seditious conspiracy, that sort of thing. it resonates. and i do think that the argument that the trump world people are still trying to, you know, cover this up and make sure that the american people don't find out what happened is a really big issue. and if that gets proved, then i

think the pressure to indict becomes a lot higher. >> okay. i want to go back to something that we heard from cassidy and then compare that to something that donald trump said because she's being attacked from all angles. and she knew that was going to happen. i think everyone did, which is why there were certain measures put in place for her security. when it comes to credibility, donald trump can't say he didn't want people with guns let into the rally. but here's cassidy hutchinson testimony. >> behind the stage he was very concerned about the shot, meaning the photograph we would get because the rally space wasn't full. >> the media will not show the magnitude of this crowd. even i, when i turned on today, i looked and i saw thousands of people here. but you don't see hundred of thousands of people behind you

because they don't want to show that. >> i was in the vicinity of a conversation that i heard the president say something to the effect of, they're not here to hurt me. take the fing mags away. >> and i would love to have if those tens of thousands of people would be allowed -- the military and the secret service, and we want to thank you. the police enforcement. you're doing a great job. but i would love it if they could be allowed to come up here with us. is that possible? can you just let them come up, please? >> so, there is all this talk of magnometers and him saying he didn't want them to be used according to this testimony by cassidy hutchinson. what do you make of that? is that something that could be used by the committee and look at what he said and what she said and try to match it up? >> absolutely. i think the key point to that from a prosecutor's viewpoint is the idea he knows there are armed people. he can't deny anymore. and yet he's inviting them to come in and that he will lead them still.

so, for anybody else, that would be pretty damning. >> can i chime in on that point because a lot of people particularly in the press and social media made a lot of hay about the toddler-like behavior. they made a lot of hay about her hearsay testimony. you've got to have somebody in the vehicle. you've got to have somebody that was there. she was testifying as to what somebody else told her. but the testimony she gave about him knowing what was going on, him having that knowledge -- you can go to intent. you can go to all these other things. but the committee did a great job in building the case that the president was very aware that there was a propensity to have violence occur on that date. and because he knew it, he makes the charge -- what's the word we're using? that one. it makes that charge a little

bit easier to prove, although it still is a big mountain to climb. >> when you start looking at how the doj is responding to this, does it surprise you that they were surprised, that they were taken aback by this testimony that did shock everybody? but i think people imagine that prosecutors, especially the doj, has some inside knowledge of all of these things and are sort of, like, you know, just waiting to go -- shan is laughing over here. but just sort of waiting to catch the next? >> yeah, again, it speaks to the lengths that they all seem to be going to to make sure that this doesn't look politicized. you're talk about trump world. and if there's one thing that the former president likes to whine about, it's how the deep state is out to get him and it's all political, and he's never done anything wrong. this is all just a political witch hunt. so, do think that there has been a logic to having things kind of follow the appropriate paths. and if they're not handing over the transcripts and they did not get the same statements from

her, then, you know, they're going to get blindsided occasionally. i don't think the public sniping about it, though, is particularly useful from either side. >> thank you. that is a discussion that we are going to continue. but first, to the looming trial for american basketball star brittney griner in russia. she's been held for months on accusations of drug smuggling. the u.s. calls it wrongful detainment. cnn's abby phillip just spoke with griner's wife on the fight to bring brittney home. >> do you trust that the maximum amount of effort is being put forward to bring b.g. home? >> her answer in an exclusive coming up next.

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just hours from now, the trial for brittney griner, the wnba star held in russia since her february arrest, is set to begin. the 31-year-old phoenix mercury player was arrested at a moscow airport on allegations of attempted drug smuggling after russian authorities claimed she had cannabis oil in her luggage. the u.s. state department believes she is being wrongfully detained. griner, who played in russia during the wnba's off season now faces up to ten years in prison. in a cnn exclusive interview, her wife, cheryl, spoke to our abby phillip. cheryl griner says brittney is struggling, and she's terrified. >> it's really difficult. it's really, really difficult. you know, this is not a situation where the rhetoric is matching the action. so, i can't just take the fact that this is somebody's job to

bring home my wife and go off focus to that degree. i can't do that. i do have to unfortunately also push people to make sure that things they're telling me is also matching their actions. so, it has been the hardest thing to balance because i can't let up because it's over 130 days and b.g.'s still not back. >> do you trust that the maximum amount of effort is being put forward to bring b.g. home? >> no, i don't. and i hate to say that because i do trust that they're -- that the persons working on this are genuine people. that i do believe. but i don't think the maximum amount of effort is being done because, again, the rhetoric and the actions don't match. you know, when you have a situation where b.g. can call our government, the embassy, 11 times and that phone call don't

get answered, you don't have my trust at that point until i see actions that are in b.g.'s best interest. it would have been in her best interest for her phone call to have been answered. it would have been in her best interest for her to have been back on u.s. soil. so, until i see things like that, no. >> i know you've had some conversations with the secretary of state and other officials, but you want to talk to president biden, right? >> absolutely. and the reason why is because i'm new to this, you know? so, i don't -- i'm no politician. i just graduated law school. so, i can only, you know -- i can only do those things that are being told are beneficial for my wife. and the most beneficial thing that i've been told is that, you know, you meet with president biden. you know, he has that power. he is the person, you know, that ultimately will make that decision for b.g. to come home.

so, while everybody else wants to tell me they care, i would love for him to tell me he cares. >> what do you want to tell him? if you were to sit in front of him, what would you say, speaking directly to him? >> well, honestly the first thing is i want to humanize my wife to him. you know? b.g., she's no politician. she honestly, you know, didn't really get into this type of stuff. when it comes to voting skpaul of that until we got married. and obviously i'm very, very, very, very on the voting and all the legal processes and stuff in our system. so, this is her first year voting. so, his ballot was my wife's first time -- >> she voted for president biden. >> she did. she made that conscious decision to trust in him and his administration. >> there's talk of prisoner swaps being the thing that needs to happen. is that what you think should be done? do you think that the

administration should say, we will swap who you want for brittney? >> to be very honest with you, i don't really listen to much of the talk about the how in measures of, you know, what is necessary to get her home. but if that's what's necessary, then, yes, do it. >> have you seen any of the pictures that have been released this week of her? >> i have, i have. >> what did you think? >> it was very disheartening. and honestly i told you i like to be very frank with my wife and authentic when i do write her. i told her, i said, i saw a picture and honestly for a second i thought you was insane. and it kind of took me aback. i just want to tell you one thing, if you are losing your mind, just be gracious with yourself because you're human and that's okay. that way, you come back. we will love you back whole. and i said, if you aren't going

insane, just do me a favor, and you know, just try and keep any integrity you can control by not allowing them to depict you in ways that are not really, you know, your current state, if you got to, put a cover over your head, don't allow them to strip you to that degree because at the end of the day they're controlling the media over there. i don't really know if it's photo shopped or if it's her state of being or things of that nature. it was hard to see. i understand propaganda to a certain degree. i try not to take it as just truth, but it did make me worried. >> has she had a chance to respond? >> she did. >> okay. what did she say? >> well, she laughed. she said, babe, i promise i'm not a lunatic yet. she said, i haven't completely gone crazy, but i was very shocked because when i turned that corner, it was over 100 news outlets with cameras

waiting right there. and she told me that she was also a very exhausted because, again, this is not a normal process. so, b.g. has happened to travel over five hours round-trip when she goes to court in a very, very, very tiny cage with her knees bent because it's not big enough for her to fit in. so, she is experiencing a lot the days before she walks into court. so, it was just a lot. was in a terrible mood, my body was hurting, and i was shocked when i turned that corner. she was like, it's okay, i'm not crazy yet. >> do you think she's being used as a political pawn by russia? >> honestly, all of this stuff is so new to me. i didn't even understand what a political pawn was for a minute. >> but, i mean, she's an american. she's a black woman. she's a lesbian woman. all of those things. i mean, when you realize kind of

the context around that, what did you -- what did you think? >> it was a big pill to swallow. i just didn't understand it. it felt like a movie for me. i didn't understand these terms and these words. in my mind, b.g. is my best friend. i know she's a big deal, but did i ever think she could be big enough where somebody could want to use her to get something else? no. so, it was really hard for me to grasp that. you know, but then i realized, like, the answer to that question is yes. you know, like, yes, can they get something in return for b.g.? yes, they can. are they willing to do that? yes. and at this point, i want them to. whatever you want, please ask. >> abby phillips joins me now. what an incredible powerful interview. i know cherelle also met with the family of trevor reed, the u.s. marine imprisoned in russia for almost three years, who was

released earlier this year. he has already called for her to be released. what did she tell you about their meeting? >> reporter: yeah, sara, she called it a club, a club that i think none of these families want to be in. the families of americans who are wrongfully detained abroad and they comfort each other. they communicate with each other. and they give each other advice, lessons learned. she talked about meeting families whose loved ones have been detained for years. and she thought to herself just the thought of that would break her, that if she were in this position for years, it would ultimately break her. she said there were a couple of main lessons she took away from some of these conversations from the family of trevor reed himself. she said one of them was to not be quiet. at the beginning of brittney griner's detention, they didn't say a whole lot. they were being quiet waiting for there to be more behind the

scenes actions being taken. she said she has heard from these families that you have to keep the attention going. you have to keep the focus on these families in order to put the pressure on them. and the other thing was that meeting with president biden. a lot of these families said to her, that meeting is a prerequisite for your loved one coming home. so, you have got to push for that. and she did multiple times in this interview. >> i thought it was really interesting because when you were talking to cherelle, she talked about going to school and being a future lawyer and also being a wife. and she expressed how brittney, in this moment, wanted her to focus on herself and passing the bar. i mean, how is she able to do all these things while her wife is in this horrible position, as she talks about just even the difficulties getting to and from the courthouse? and we know from trevor reed how bad things can be in a russian prison for something, you know, as small as having, you know,

some supposed contraband. what does she tell you about how she's handling this while her wife is stuck there? >> yeah, i mean, she knows that her wife is facing prison time in russia in a justice system she simply does not think can be fair. but you have to understand, she was in her final semester of law school when brittney griner was detained. she graduated from law school without her wife there. she is now in the middle, 25 days or so away from studying for the bar. her birthday is tomorrow. so, she is dealing with all these life events, while this global incident is occurring around her. but, you saw a little bit of this there. they were writing letters to each other constantly, back and forth. i asked her, are you able to be candid with brittney in these letters, and she said, yes, i am. but in these letters, they are able to laugh with each other. they are able to be real with

each other. and she said brittney was very clear that she needed to continue onward and not be deterred by what was happening to her. but cherelle, who is training to be -- who is a lawyer and is trying to pass the bar, she wants to defend young, juvenile defendants in the criminal justice system. she says this incident has totally changed and really expanded her perspective about what she wants to do in the legal field. what that ultimately will mean for her, i'm not sure she even knows but i think there's no question she feels like this is a life-changing moment for her as well. >> abby phillip, that was such an incredible interview. thank you so much for bringing that to us. >> thank you, sara. coming up, an astonishing development in the murder that launched america's civil rights movement. nearly 70 years later, emmett till's family takes us through the moment they made a remarkable discovery. but is it enough to reopen the

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a warning, the infamous photograph -- i'm going to get this out eventually. the infamous photograph we're about to show you is graphic. but his mother never wanted the world to forget it. this is what happened to emmett till, the 14-year-old who was kidnapped and gruesomely murdered. but now his family has unearthed an unserved warrant for the people accused of kidnapping till. one of those people named in that warrant for kidnapping is still alive. the white woman who accused till of unwanted advances in 1955. till's cousins told me today they want that warrant to finally be served. they say they do not want revenge. they just want justice, justice the family has been denied for 67 years. here's their story. >> i believe we were led by our angels, led by the spirit of

maimmy till and emmett till. >> for 67 years the family of emmett till say they have been seeking justice, not just for the murder of 14-year-old black boy whose tortured and disfigured body helped spark the civil rights movement, but for what led up to that murder, his kidnapping. the family believes one suspect is a woman who is still alive. >> we thought of things like citizens arrest. i'm just going to tell you. we thought of things like, well, can we find the warrant to her. if the authorities aren't going to do this, what can we do? >> till's cousins debra and terry watts decided to go searching for the warrant, one authorities never found over the decades in their investigations. >> there were cobwebs across all of the boxes, dead bugs, dust. we had to get chairs to even search on different levels of the -- for the documents.

we did have gloves and masks as well, but we were definitely determined to find it no matter what. we pushed through. >> two men were acquitted of till's murder by an all-white jury, though they later admitted to the killing in an interview with "look" magazine. the case against carolyn bryant was never tried. we reached out to her and have not heard back. >> we think this is new evidence that no one had ever searched for, and we were able to find it. it was unbelievable. it was overwhelming. we all cried. we were also in a state of shock, speechless in some instances. >> wow, the moment was very, very, very overwhelming. i had to look at the warrant several times just to make sure

that it was real that it actually read mrs. roy brandt on it. >> though she was never arrested or tried n 2007 after the till case was reopened, bryant's case was brought in front of a grand jury. did not indict her. >> a majority white grand jury convened and declined to indict carolyn bryant dunham. what do you make of that? >> we're not sure why they declined to indict her because there was enough evidence there to indict her. the investigation had been done. >> the watts say their whole lives they have lived with maimmy till moegly's haunting ties for justice and the images that horrified the nation of their cousin lying disfigured in an open casket. it was a scene his mother insisted showing the world to expose what racist hate truly looks like. >> we did take the torch from maimmy. we ensured to her that we will continue the fight before she passed away. and so for me, i definitely want to see it through. but it has been a tremendous amount of trauma. i still feel like the weight is

on our shoulders. we found the new evidence and so we just want justice served. >> we are doing this without hate, malice, or vengeance against carolyn bryant. we just want justice served. justice has been denied for 67 years, and it needs to be served. >> we're going to look at what the next moves could be in this historic crime that continues to go unpunished and who exactly would take action after other investigations didn't go anywhere when "cnn tonight" returns. is the unknown is not empty. it's a storm that crashes, and consumes, replacing thought with worry. but one thing can calm uncertainty.

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the pictures of emmett till's young smiling face are

the pictures of emmett till's young smiling face are seared into the soul of americans who have fought for civil rights. that's in part because his family made the choice to show another face to the world, that of his open casket. as hard as this is to see even decades later, you still should not look away because the tears and cries from his funeral echoed even today, especially with the windings of this unserved warrant shedding new light on a system that the

family says clearly didn't work for them. here to help us make sense of all the, bakar ri sellers and shan wu. thank you for staying here. historically, what is the significance of this warrant? this is a warrant specifically to three different people, one of whom is still alive, two of whom were acquitted in the murder. this is part of the kidnapping part of this case. >> i think the significance is the fact that emmett till's legacy still lives on. people need to understand first and foremost, this isn't some relic of ancient history. emmett till would only be a year older than the president of the united states, joe biden, and his death, it spearheaded an entire movement. the entire emmett till generation. you don't have john lewis and marion berry and these organizers without emmett till. legally speaking, they should just lock her up. i don't know if that's the legal term for it.

but she should have been arrested a long time ago. the callousness, the willful disregard for life. she was the first karen, as we talk about those things all the time, where people just call police for no good reason. and her behavior led to the murder of a young boy, not just her behavior, but her lies. and it was brutal. and if you look at emmett till's picture, that picture that went viral in "ebony" magazine before you could go viral in twitter, igram, snapchat, et cetera. that picture means so much to us because here you have a young boy who was not able to get dignity in life or death, and he's still not able to rest in peace or power because she is still locking these streets. so, lock her up is all i can say. >> there is obviously another side to this. she has not returned our request for comment. she did at one point -- her case went to a grand jury. that was 2007.

the grand jury, who did have black folks on that jury, did not indict, said there was not enough evidence to indict. now that they have found this warrant, which is considered an open warrant, according to officials, what do they do with it? can it be served as is? >> it probably can be served. you know, that warrant, that document, may be old. maybe it's stale. but the injustice and the probable cause hasn't gone stale. and so even if there is some limit to how long a warrant can stay active for in that state, probable cause is still there. they should just reissue it. that's what should happen right now. >> i want to tell you something the family said and just have you react. when i talk to debra and terry, mother and daughter, they've been fighting this fight for a very, very, very long time, basically their home lives. they can remember their cousin. they can remember emmett till's mom telling them even before she

died, i still want justice for my son. and it sits on this family. in their estimation, what they want is for the wheels of justice to turn. they have not said they want her convicted, tried, any of those things. they have said, do the first thing, do what's right. serve her with a warrant, and then go from there. charge her. >> you're looking at a dichotomy of two individuals. you have this woman who needs to be charged. and then you have maimmy till. and when you think about ms. till, you think about the strength of all of these women who were in the movement. and she epitomized that so much. and so for a lot of black folk in this country, a lot of poor folk in this country, you believe that justice for you is fleeting. and emmett till is the perfect he case to depict that. and you talked about the -- you talked about the fact that a grand jury did not return an indictment. i mean, that's a part of the

justice system in this case being broken and not working for everyone because we know that prosecutors can go in there and make whatever case they want to make, either one they can indict someone or one they can lead to a lack of indictment, as we saw in this case. s so, there's so many people who failed this family. and, you know, you cannot rest until justice is had for a 13-year-old young black boy from chicago who was brutally murdered in mississippi. >> both of you, thank you so much. these are very hard cases. we've heard from two families tonight who were really struggling. and thank you for watching. a big night in wyoming for january 6th committee vice chair liz cheney. she may be fighting for democracy after the capitol insurrection, but now she's fighting to keep her house seat after breaking with many in her party. we'll look at her case to voters in a crucial debate this evening. that's coming up next.

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this is happening right now in wyoming. you're watching congresswoman liz cheney in the midst of a high stakes debate in her home state. she's facing four republican primary challengers, including

harriet hageman, who has the backing of donald trump. here are the two facing off over their divergent views on donald trump and the direction of the entire republican party. >> our republic is not in danger because of president donald j. wyoming. the threat to our republic really comes from other sources, including the fact that right now we're seeing that we have two different systems of justice in this country where we have one system of justice where you have people like hunter biden or hillary clinton or even joe biden who are not held accountable for the decisions and the bad acts that they undertake. >> i'm frankly stunned that one of my opponents on the stage who is a member of the wyoming bar who has sworn an oath as many of us on this stage have to the constitution, would be in a position where she is suggesting that somehow what happened on january 6th was justified, or

that somehow what happened that day, the people have the right to ignore the rulings of the courts. we are, in fact, a nation of laws, and we are a nation of laws only if we defend our constitutional republic. and as i made clear last night, we have to put our oath to the constitution above party. we are now bracing a cult of personality and i won't be part of that and i will always stand for my oath and stand ford truth. >> she is one of the few republicans in office that will say something like that out loud. bakari sellers and michelle are back with me. thank you for being here. let's start with some of the things we heard there. i heard somewhat aboutism that we hear often. when you hear from liz cheney, who is a staunch conservative republican -- like, those credentials cannot be tarik en away -- taken away from her in the party. are there any upsides? i'll start with you, bakari, for her to come out swinging against

donald trump and trumpism? >> i mean, she's putting the constitution over her party. i'm not someone who is going to say that i'm going to embrace liz cheney and all of her policies which are 180 degrees probably different than myself. but on this issue of how fragile our democracy is or donald trump's threat to democracy and wanting to get to the truth about january 6th, she's absolutely right. and i think that that is -- we have to give credit where credit is due. for far too long we live in a country of silos, where we retreat to our own silos and seek opinions that reinforce our own. it looks like she may be putting this country ahead of her own political future as well. >> i want to ask about that. what is her political future judging from the knocks she has taken? >> she is correct this republican party has turned into a cult of personality. she is a prime target for the former president's revenge

crusade. she is going to be targeted. within this republican party she is at a huge disadvantage. so she might as well go all-in with this. there needs to be someone out there reminding some of the traditional republicans, the on the fence republicans, the not so crazy about the maga republicans, that there is another way, and that hopefully at some point the party can come out the other side or move past this poison and she intends to be waving that flag and trying to get the people to, you know, in her party to wake up. >> can i ask you? you talk about this sort of revenge and coming at her. is that why there aren't other republicans that speak like her? because many who have have decided to suddenly retire, not run again. i mean, we've seen this over and over and over again. >> they've made it very hard. you've seen governors retire, congressmen retire because they are getting primaried by these trump-backed candidates. for some of them it is just too

painful and there are people who are afraid. you can talk to people in washington who just -- if you cross trump, you take so much heat from kind of the fringy elements of the party, that it is a lot for these people to, you know, deal with. liz cheney has proven herself tough. she comes from a staunch conservative family, and she is just going to go all-in on this. but very few can afford do that. >> last night she spoke at the regan library. she had a message to young girls and women about speaking out to defend the republic. listen to this. >> i want to speak to every young girl watching tonight. the power is yours, and so is the responsibility. there are no bystanders in a constitutional republic. these days, for the most part, men are running the world, and it is really not going that well. [ laughter ] >> that got a big reaction.

but, again, she's speaking to a certain group of people, right? are other republicans going to follow suit? i'll start with you. >> i think that the fever has not broken yet. if trump keeps losing altitude, if, for instance, it starts looking like 2024 he would be a big liability, there are funders who are starting to give a lot of money to potential competitors or opponents for him. he's going to have to lose a little bit more altitude and prove that you can succeed in the party without his blessing before they're going to line up. >> he lived through "access hollywood." he'll live through this as well. for some reason he's teflon. i haven't figured that part out yet, but you applaud liz cheney. she realizes the writing is on the wall with her race. she's running to the end, but it's an uphill battle for her. there aren't many people willing to pay that price and it's unfortunate their putining their

politics over the future and stability of the country. >> can i ask you, there is the base, there is a bigger party. is the base the whole party now at this point? >> certainly the party is afraid of. what you're running for in these races is the primary vote, especially with congressional gerrymandering. there are very few competitive districts, so the party has to turnout for you and you have to survive that primary before you can go forward. and that's what's terrifying people. >> all right, thank you both so much. we appreciate you here. bakari sellers and michelle caldwell, we will be right back.

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thank you so much for hanging out with me. i'll be back tomorrow night. don lemon tonight starts right now. >> sarah sidner, thank you very much. th