thank you so much for hanging out with me. i'll be back tomorrow night. don lemon tonight starts right now. >> sarah sidner, thank you very much. this is don lemon tonight.

this is something out of a gangster movie. the star witness in a dramatic trial who has damning information about the boss, contacted by someone who may be trying to intimidate them, to keep them telling what they know. sources are telling us that is exactly what happened to cassidy hutchinson. three sources telling cnn that hutchinson was one of the witnesses trump world tried to influence, which tells you a whole lot about what they thought about her testimony. right? the committee so concerned about her security that they kept her identity a secret leading up to the hearing. in the wake of her block buster testimony, we may be about to learn a whole lot more with the subpoena for pat cipollone who knows what was going on behind those closed doors at the white house before, during and after the january 6. we are also learning more about the lengths trump world may be willing to go to. liz cheney saying two unnamed witnesses told the committee they heard from people in the former president's orbit who may have been trying to intimidate them.

>> what they said to me is as long as i continue to be a team player, they know i'm on the right team. i'm doing the right thing. i'm protecting who i need to protect. you know i'll continue to stay in good graces in trump world. and they have reminded me a couple of times that trump does read transcripts. quote, a person let they know you have your deposition tomorrow. he wants me to let you know he's thinking about you. he knows you're loyal and you're going to do the right thing when you go in for your deposition. >> we have heard about this kind of behavior before in another hearing from someone else who knows all too well how trump team works. >> that's how he speaks. he doesn't give you questions. he doesn't give you orders. he speaks in a code, and i understand the code because i've been around him for a decade. >> so, contrast charges of

witness intimidation, the thugish and threatening politics with the kind of politics liz cheney talked about in her speech last night. when she gotta plauz from the republican audience for speaking the truth. >> the reality that we face today as republicans, as we think about the choice in front of us, we have to choose because republicans cannot both be loyal to donald trump and loyal to the constitution. at this moment -- [ applause ] >> interesting how republicans applauded her then. but tonight -- tonight liz cheney defending her work on the january 6 committee, fighting criticism from her republican rivals. >> as i made clear last night, we have to put our oath to the constitution above party. republican party has a long and a storied history of embracing

conservative values that i believe in very strongly, of limited government, low taxes and a strong national defense. but we are now embracing a cult of personality. i won't be parliament of that and i will always stand for the oath and stand for the truth. >> liz cheney talking policy, values at her debate tonight. the other candidates? i want to turn now to the latest in the january 6 investigation. here to discuss, john dean, who was nixon white house counsel and counsel to the house democrats during the first trump impeachment. gentlemen, good to see you. thanks so much. let's start with ambassador eisen. ambassador, the hutchinson testimony this week was explosive. it added a lot to the public's understanding of what happened leading up to and on january 6th. has there been a shift in momentum for the committee, you think, and a rising alarm in trump world because of all these revelations that are coming out?

>> don, thanks for having me back. i think the committee was accelerating even before cassidy hutchinson, but she put them into hyper drive. she provided the missing link, many missing links that we have been waiting for. but above all, tying trump very directly to the violence. he knew that there were weapons in the crowd. he incited the crowd. he wanted to march with the crowd. and then his hostility that she reported towards mike pence, not sympathetic at all agreeing, and that terrible tweet a little after 2:00 p.m. so this was a devastating acceleration, i think, of donald trump's criminal liability ultimately. >> john, we are learning the former white house deputy chief of staff met twice with the january 6 committee, in january and in march. topics included trump's

knowledge of pence's whereabouts. his answers to the questions haven't been revealed. what is this committee after when it comes to him? >> i think they want the truth, and i think they're going to have to go back to him and find out whether he told the story that was reported by cassidy or not. they've made that into an issue, her detractors. it's not a very important story in the bigger picture, but they're playing with it. and i don't think she'd have any inclination to create and invent a story like that had she not heard it. so he's a really unique secret service person who sort of crossed from the service into the white house staff and became sort of the acting head of the secret service. very unusual, highly unusual. >> well, let's talk about that because some committee members think he lacks credibility. how do you see this playing out? >> i think he certainly has lost

some credibility because he's not an independent player. he has declared whose team he's on. he was there to make trump look good at events, to help make sure that advancing events was made easier. the secret service was always cooperative. so he's a partisan in this, frankly, and so i think that no affects his credibility greatly. >> ambassador eisen, you had some instinct, i should say, some insight about pat cipollone. you opposed him during trump's first impeachment trial. you have a good sense what he's about. he is not fighting this subpoena. it looks like he's going to cooperate in some limited way. why do you think he might cooperate now? >> well, don, he has three options. he can take the route of naked criminal contempt that has landed steve bannon and peter navarro in the dock. he's a practicing lawyer. he's an officer of the court. he's not going to do that.

he can attempt to negotiate a compromise. it happens so often, there's a name for it in d.c. the accommodation process. that's where he appears to be going. he could stall and ultimately litigate. that's the mark meadows route. and that risks contempt finding and possible prosecution. so the only option that really makes sense for him -- and i say this also knowing pat. he is a negotiator. he is an affable individual. we also spent a lot of time with his counsel for this, mike p porpora in the impeachment, also a negotiator. i think they're going to take the middle route. >> meaning? explain. >> well, right now they are signalling that a negotiation is going on. that means they're going to talk about things like, is the

deposition -- i have a subpoena. pat says, is the deposition going to be videotaped so i'm on tv or is it going to be audio or is it going to be transcribed so there is only a written record? will certain questions be on or off the table? how long will we go? those kinds of details to try to get to a comfort zone. what he must do is he has to show up, answer the questions. if he has objections, executive or attorney/client privilege, he has to put those on the record, don. and then ultimately, those belong to the united states government, those privileges. that means it's up to joe biden to decide whether or not pat answers those questions. >> john dean, what happened to -- i'm a servant of the people, i work for the american public. i'm serving the country in this capacity, i have nothing to hide, i'll answer your questions? >> that doesn't play with the trump administration at all. they have fought tooth and nail.

they have tried to neuter the congress every time they had to be held to be accountable for anything. pat cipollone led that, as norm well knows, very effectively in an impeachment proceeding that was really almost an obstruction of congress, and how he got away with it i don't know. but he did. the statute has run, i think, on it so it's no longer an issue. don, one thing i want to add, i think pat cipollone has to consider whether or not he's got jeopardy, criminal jeopardy, and whether he's going to have to invoke the fifth amendment on some of these himself. >> talk to me more about that. why do you say that? >> well, if you listen to what cassidy told us, she said he was warning about conspiracies to obstruct justice, conspiracies to defraud the electoral count, one crime after another,

multitudes of crimes. there's no evidence that he withdrew from any of those just because he warned of them. we need that evidence. >> norm, cipollone and attorney general bill barr have a decades long relationship. barr was very critical of trump in taped testimony. watch this. >> i thought, boy, if he really believes this stuff, he has, you know, lost contact with, with -- he's become detached from reality. if he really believes this stuff. >> cipollone worked for bar in the george h.w. bush administration. they're both conservative catholics. he doesn't want to rune his reputation. do you think barr speaking out makes it easier for cipollone to speak out or it has no effect on it? >> i think it has an atmospheric effect, don. if we could tape record the thoughts in pat's head, i'm sure

he is just as critical -- and we've heard extremely critical reports from others of what pat said in that time in the white house. i think he was fighting to do the right thing. i have a slightly different view than my friend john about his criminal exposure, but ultimately -- and i know this from dealing with him. he's going to decide what's best for him. >> what is different about what john said? why do you different in this -- >> i don't. as i look at the facts here, i see a white house counsel, the job that john once held, and i was special counsel to the president working in that office, who was fighting consistently to try to prevent donald trump from attacking and overturning this election, and one crazy scheme after another that pat blocked, i don't think prosecutors are going to charge that. but what pat is going to do,

don, he's going to decide what's best for pat. and the difference between him and bill barr is he still has an active law practice. he's trying to do this dance that republicans do. they don't want to take donald trump on directly, and that's what the negotiation is probably is about with the committee now e. dnow. he doesn't want video of him played attacking trump. an audio is better, a written transcript is best of all. those are the kinds of things being negotiated and i think he will cut a deal. >> you know, john, what's:to me is this is, of course, in certain republican circles, right, and conservative media, this is being portrayed as a democratic witch-hunt. i find it surprising that these people have hidden as democrats their entire lives, to come out, to wait for these moment -- these interest all republicans, by the way.

i'm being facetious here. they waited their entire life to come out as democrats. they've been conservative the whole time pretending just to go up against this one president. do you see what i'm saying, it's ridiculous? >> i do. i do. i do. there are witches, don. and i think some of them are being flushed out right now. the big witch, who was very critical today on his social media out dtlet, was critical o the committee for subpoenaing pat cipollone. i think this was a raw cord that they hit. he's a very important witness. he could end this thing very quickly by coming forth with the truth. i think he has an obligation under the ethics standards that came out post watergate to report this information. and i don't understand why he's giving -- being given so much

slack that he is. >> but this entire administration, everyone has flouted those ethics standards. there are no ethics when it comes to this administration. >> and no accountability. >> yeah. we shall see if there's any to come. thank you both, gentlemen. appreciate it. up next, the former senior investigator who just left the january 6 committee a week ago, what he thinks the committee wants to ask pat cipollone. >> i think that this is an instance where the presidency, the american people, where we've been through something we've never been through before, and the very real and significant chance that there was behavior underway about which mr. cipollone expressed significant legal concerns. and i think he has an obligation to testify. ♪ baby got back by sir mix-a-lot ♪ unlimited cashback match... only from discover.

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only two days after stunning revelations in the january 6 committee hearing, the vice chair liz cheney is back in wyoming. she's facing off against four of her gop opponents in a primary debate tonight, including trump-backed harriet hageman. she and congresswoman cheney sparring over the work the january 6 committee is doing. >> i think these are really serious issues. and i think absolutely, there's no question that what we saw happen on january 6 was clearly an attempt to delay the count of

the electoral votes. anybody who was there understands the violence that was involved. i'm frankly stunned that one of my opponents on the stage who is a member of the wyoming bar, who has sworn an oath as many of us on this stage have to the constitution, would be in a position where she is suggesting that somehow what happened on january 6th was justified, or that somehow what happened that day, the people have the right to ignore the rulings of the courts. we are, in fact, a nation of laws. and we are a nation of laws only if we defend our constitutional republic. and as i made clear last night, we have to put our oath to the constitution above party. the republican party has a long and a storied history of embracing the conservative values that i believe in very strongly, of limited government, low taxes, and a strong national

defense. but we are now embracing a cult of personality. i won't be parliamt of that and will always stand by my oath and for the truth. >> the corruption of our various institutions, the department of justice, the fbi, the other things that have happened over the last couple of years. and what we have is we have a committee in congress right now that they're focusing on something that happened 18 months ago. they're not focusing on the issues that are important to the people in wyoming, and they're also ignoring the corruption that is absolute lit destroying washington, d.c. >> i'd be interested to know whether or not my opponent ms. hageman is willing to say here tonight the election wasn't stolen. she knows it wasn't stolen. i think she sccan't say it was stolen because she's beholden to donald trump. we have to be truthful elected officials, in particular, public servants to the people we

represent. >> and i think that the press and people associated with that, the democrats democrats who want to deflect attention, deflect attention from all the troubles of this country, they talk about january 6. that's not what the people of wyoming are talking about. >> well, liz cheney slamming her chief rival for echoing trump's lies about the election. debunking conspiracy theories abounded among her opponents. she is facing an uphill battle in a state trump won with huge margins in 2020. so, did she do enough tonight? and will voters listen? cnn senior political analyst malika henderson and scott jennings are both here. what could it mean for the gop if liz cheney loses her seat? we'll talk about that next. the unknown is not empty. it's a storm that crashes, and consumes, replacing thought with worry.

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representative liz cheney taking on several republican challengers for her imperiled house seat, and defending her work investigating then president trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. joining me to discuss, cnn's senior political analyst nia malika henderson, and cnn commentator scott jennings. i'm kidding. good to see you. how are both of you? let's discuss now. nia, to a lot of the country liz cheney is showing heroism by standing up for democracy and her work on the january 6 committee. but that is not the case in wyoming, is it? >> no. i mean, this is a state that donald trump won i think 70% of the vote there. her anti-trumpism -- she knew this going into her anti-trump stance, she knew.

a full-on opponent spouting theories in the debate. liz cheney is doing well in terms of raising tons of money, but we all know that doesn't necessarily translate to votes. she's essentially, you know, kind of pleaded with democrats to cross over and help her win this primary in august because she knows that the writing is kind of on the wall for her. >> that makes sense, nia. why wouldn't they do it? if they care, they'd do it. >> they might. the idea you're going to a mass enough democrats to do that is a little unlikely. maybe. >> i would say if they are smart and they really want to help someone with integrity to hold onto that seat, that they should vote for her. does that make sense to you, scott? what do you think? >> well, it's probably the only strategy cheney can employ in order to win this primary. so i understand why she's doing it. it's funny to me, having worked for the bush/cheney

administration getting democrats out to vote. >> we're in the twilight zone right now, scott. >> i know, i know. i agree with nia. i think it's unlikely that enough democrats would do that. but if you're a democrat and you truly believe that democracy is on the line, it's hanging by a thread or what have you, this wouldn't be a vote you can cast. i find it a long shot in wyoming. certainly it's a strategy if i were running her campaign, yi would employ, no doubt. >> there were people -- i don't know if it was all democrats, but those who are pro abortion, right, pro choice, i should say, they were upset with liz cheney because liz cheney applauded the supreme court's decision. liz cheney is conservative. no one should expect her to be a democrat. but they should applaud her and at least support her in terms of her irpin integrity and what she's doing for the country and democracy. >> i think they are. that's one of the reasons you see her have that major

fund-raising advantage. i imagine she's getting money from all over the country, people who are seeing her bravery and her courage leading this committee and likely costing her her political future as a republican in this party as it stands now. but i just don't think you're going to be able to organize enough democrats, enough independents to cross over in this primary and kind of beat the trump train at this point in a state like wyoming. >> if she loses, nia, what message does that send? >> it's a message we already know, which is trump is the head of the republican party. he is the dominant most powerful force in the party right now and you cannot be anti-trump and win. we saw that down in south carolina -- what? >> some of the anti-trumpers are winning. >> not the anti-trumpers. the people moving past trump. but the people who are vehemently anti-trump, those folks are not winning in these primaries. >> scott, for security reasons the debate was closed to the

public. wednesday cheney got rounds of applause at the library when she called trump gop enablers. >> we are facing a domestic threat we have never faced before, and that is a former president who is attempting to unravel the foundations of our constitutional republic. it has become clear that the efforts donald trump oversaw and engaged in were even more chilling and more threatening than we could have imagined. we have to choose, because republicans cannot both be loyal to donald trump and loyal to the constitution. at this moment -- [ applause ] >> so, here's my question, scott. if you are in that crowd, if you're attending an event at the regan library, you are an old school republican, right? a pre-trump republican. i'm wondering -- i asked this

question last night -- if she's preaching to the choir. because basically what she's saying is the gop has a bigger and brighter future without donald trump leading the -- >> she is laying out a message by someone in the 2024 presidential primary. they may not say it in those stark terms. she may end up being john the baptist if donald trump ends up losing the nomination. it's probably mike pence. he's the one probably most likely going to lay out this message that we can have all the policy you want without the unconstitutional january 6 baggage. i mean, that's basically what pence is going to argue. what i'm interested in, don, is whether ron desantis, nikki haley, some of the others, are going to go as far as what cheney is doing. i doubt that they will. at some juncture if you're running against trump in the primary, you can't just say i'm 100% donald trump all the way.

you're not really giving anyone a choice. the one candidate i think is most likely to carry this ball is pence. and if the reports are true that trump is thinking of jumping into this race early, he'll get his chance early on to define it on those terms. we'll see if it works. i don't know. certainly she is laying that groundwork for him. >> listen, she's gained a lot of attention nationally, scott. she's been in the spotlight. do you think there's a chance liz cheney might run? >> sure, i do actually. i don't think she would run as a republican. >> huh. >> i guess she could. i don't know what the market place is. you look at the polling, half the party wants trump at the moment. the other half is split up between, i don't know, ron desantis, mike pence and a bunch of other people. whether there is a market for what she's selling, i would find it more likely -- even if people gravitate toward cheney would grave tate to pence.

>> nia? >> i think she's probably going to run. she'll run as a republican. the market is small. pence doesn't have much of a shot. he sort of owes his standing to donald trump, but also rebuke donald trump. that's kind of a hard lane to navigate. i think desantis embodies trumpisms. you see the policies he's putting in place in florida. you see his stock rising. in some ways, he should send liz cheney a bouquet of flowers because she is the one that's really taking it to donald trump at this point. >> i think that would be fascinating. liz cheney. >> yeah, yeah. >> come on. bring it on. i'd love to cover that race. >> i think you will. >> thank you both. i appreciate it. >> see you, don. the january 6 committee putting the pressure on former white house counsel pat cipollone. what do they want to know? i'm going to ask a senior investigator who just left the

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the january 6 committee says it is willing to work with trump white house counsel pat cipollone after the bombshell testimony from former white house staffer cassidy hutchinson. let's get some insight on what exactly the committee wants to learn from him. joining me now, john wood. john wood is a former senior investigator for the january 6 committee. he also previously served as a u.s. attorney for the western district of missouri, and we are grateful to have you here, sir. good evening, thanks for joining. >> thanks for having me on, don. >> so, you know the investigation better than anyone else. you only left the committee a week ago and you know what unanswered questions there are. what does the committee need to ask pat cipollone, sir? >> i don't even know where to start on that. so many questions. now, pat cipollone did meet in an informal setting with the

staff of the committee, but there's no record of that. what the committee wants is for pat cipollone to go on the record, either deposition that can be videotaped or a live hearing. it's really important that the american people hear from pat cipollone because he is the one who knew so many things that other people either can't or won't tell us about. people like mark meadows are refusing to testify so it's really important pat cipollone testify. he came out several times in cassidy hutchinson's testimony a couple days ago when she said, for example, pat cipollone said if the president went to the capitol on january 6 it would break every law imaginable. they want to hear whether pat cipollone really said that on january 6. >> all right, speaking of that cassidy hutchinson said pat cipollone said they would be charged with every crime imaginable if they help trump get to the capitol on january 6. that didn't happen. does cipollone have any criminal exposure over january 6? >> i don't think pat cipollone

himself has any criminal exposure. quite to the contrary. everything i know suggests pat cipollone was one of the guys who was trying to stop donald trump from doing bad things and was encouraging him to take efforts to try to stop the attack on the capitol. so that's the kind of thing the committee needs to hear about. not anything that pat cipollone did wrong. i understand why pat cipollone is reluctant to testify because there are some legitimate privilege issues. there is information not covered by the executive privilege. it is really important the committee hear from him. >> john, what do you think of this sort of limited testimony, transcribed testimony? do you think he should come out and testify fully instead of, you know, doing it in this limited manner? >> yes, i think he should testify at a public hearing. i think that's in the committee's best interest and it's in his best interest because then he doesn't worry about saying the committee is taking anything out of context.

the american people would hear all of that. if he's not willing to do that, he should sit down for a videotaped transcribed deposition where the committee can use it in its report and make it available to the american people. he has a lot of information the american people need to know about. >> you mention that he sat down with the committee before. what did you make of his testimony, and did you find him credible? >> i think he's very credible. i think he's a very good lawyer. and i think he's a good person. i think he's an honest man, and if he would testify publicly, the american people would learn a lot about what happened on january 6. as i said before, there is some information that's privileged, like perhaps his direct communications with the president where he's providing legal advice. an awful lot that he knows is not privileged. it is important the american people hear from him. >> there are still more hearings to go. the final two hearings will focus on the role domestic extremist groups played in attacking the capitol on january 6. it's going to try to fill in the gap

gaps of what trump is doing in the violence at the capitol. are there more bombshells, john? >> we'll have to wait and see. every hearing has had new information come out. i would expect the remaining hearings would be the same. the new information will continue to come out and the american people will continue to see additional pieces to the puzzle. >> that was a big grin just now when i asked you -- >> don't read too much into it. >> i'm sorry, what? >> i said, don't read too much into my grin. i don't know exactly what's going to come out in the additional hearings, but as i said, each hearing has had new information and so i think piece by piece the american people will continue to see more of this puzzle. >> how do you think the committee is doing? >> i think they're doing a really good job. i know for months people were complaining that they didn't know enough about what was going on with the committee. they weren't hearing from the committee, because the investigation was being done behind closed doors. but now over the past few weeks, the american people have gotten to see a lot of the results of

the work and they are learning a tremendous amount. so i applaud both the members and the staff for the professional and bipartisan way they're handling this investigation. i think they are learning a lot of information. they're not done yet. >> do you think cassidy hutchinson's testimony was a game changer? did it get the public's attention? you can never get everybody's attention, but what do you make of that? >> i think it got a lot of people's attention. i was ricveted by it and i already knew some of the substance of her testimony. not all of it. i thought it was eye-popping testimony. and i thought she came across as very credible. now, obviously the committee will have to continue to talk to other witnesses to see if they corroborate or contradict her testimony. look at all of the evidence. but i thought she came across as very credible, somebody who had no reason to lie. >> so, you know, people were wondering why did he leave the committee? there must be something going on. you left the committee because you're running for senate as an independent in missouri. you call yourself a lifelong

republican. why run as an independent, john? >> yeah, i think our country is more divided than it's ever been during my lifetime and nowhere is that more evident than a senate race. the republican party appears to nominate a disgraced foreign governor who is trying to make a political comeback. the alternative if i didn't run would be a democratic nominee who would vote for chuck schumer majority leader and support the biden pelosi agenda out of touch with the views and values of the missouri. i thought was important there be a common sense mainstream conservative along the lines of ronald regan and jack dan forth. that is what the people of missouri really want. >> listen, i think most people are somewhere in the middle, right, of the extremes of both parties. but do you think an independent really has a chance, especially the way our system is -- the way it was created and the way it

operates? it is centered on democrats and republicans. >> i absolutely think that -- i think i have a very good chance of winning this race. i think this is a unique situation where it's a very republican and conservative state, but the republican party looks likely to nominate a former governor who resigned in disgrace and has a tremendous amount of baggage. so i think there is an opportunity for another republican who is a common sense conservative to step into the race and get a large number of republican votes, overwhelmingly win the independent votes and even pick up some moderate and conservative democrats who want somebody who is within the mainstream and not too extreme from both parties in this race. >> john, we're happy that you're here. best of luck. come back and let us know your progress. thank you. >> i would love to. i'll come on any time, don. >> appreciate it. the price of filling your tank, filling your grocery cart, going up and up and up and up. here's president biden's

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a key measure of inflation holding steady in may. meaning it remains at a 40 year high. americans filling the tank or doing grocery shopping know that all too well. president biden wrapping up a nato summit in europe trying to down play it. >> i can understand why the american people are frustrated because of inflation. inflation is higher in almost every other country. prices at the pump are higher in almost every other country. we're better positioned to deal with this than anyone. we have way to go. >> that's true. but not what americans want to here. the message is not getting through. one in four of adults improve of his handling of the economy. and more are falling into credit card debt. >> on your worst day, how much debt were you in? >> we were in about $120,000.

in debt. with credit cards. >> and you finished paying it off when? >> officially it was in march of 2022. >> in some ways, he is living a common american summer. the darkest days of the pandemic had a financial silver lining. government relief checks and staying homemade it easier to walk the long road to financial freedom. >> we were able to take the money the extra money we were getting and just pour it into paying off debt. >> the stimulus checks are gone. and life is more or less back to normal. and now inflation not seen in 40 years is gnawing away at the foundations of a life without credit card debt. >> we put a little extra aside just in case. especially for gas. what we do is the moneys that we were putting twads or debt, since we're newly out of debt, the money that we were putting aside for that we do take portions of that for the

inflation prices. >> more and more americans aren't so lucky. inflation has risen faster than wages for many people and efforts to tamp down on it are in part aimed at slowing wage growth. he got out of the debt in part due to the pandemic. and in part due to a debt management plan he worked out with green path financial wellness. a national non-profit counselling firm based in detroit. he spent five years there. helping people here achieve financial independence. this moment is a scary one for a lot of people. he says. >> i can understand how someone might feel that the moment where they felt like there was relief with the supplemental checks the government issued, versus the sudden tight kweez squeeze of inflation. >> numbers show more families are reaching for the plastic. fed data released this month

showed revolving credit. a measure of debt that includes credit cards reaching record highs in april. now that's not necessarily bad. but president and ceo of green path works with people who are often overwhelmed by credit cards. and she is seeing signs that's coming again. >> people who called us in 2021 on average had about $10,000 in credit card debt. so people on average calling us this month. hit $14,000. >> that's significant. >> yeah. it's 40% higher than last year. that to me is like holy cow. >> in this financial environment, credit card debt is a compounding problem. today, families who struggled before the pandemic maybe struggling again. she worries the credit crunch could expand into families who thought think had control of the debt. >> these are not costs that are super easy to cut. you don't just put less gas in the car. it will only get you so far.

>> cnn, detroit. >> thank you so much for that. so, just how much pressure was cassidy hutchinson under when she testified understood oath? sources telling us that she had been contacted by someone from trump world about that testimony. lemons. look how nice they are. the moment you become an expedia member, you can instantly start saving on your travels. so you can go and see all those, lovely, lemony, lemons. ♪ and never wonder if you got a good deal. because you did. ♪

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new developments tonight in the january 6 investigation. sources tell us cassidy hutchinson told the committee she was contacted by someone attempting to influence her testimony. liz cheney is weighing in saying that the justice department should look into this. ryan nobles has more. >> new information tonight about the january 6 committee star witness, cassidy hutchinson. sources tell cnn that hutchinson was one of two examples that vice chair liz cheney used to

show trump allies putting pressure on former staff members to stay loyal to the former president. >> we ask witnesses connected to the administration or campaign whether they have been contacted by any former colleagues or anyone else who attempted to influence or impact their testimony. >> witness intimidation, among a growing list of potential crimes the krit believes trump and his top adviser could be at the center of. >> it's a very serious issue. i would imagine the department of justice would be very interested in and take it seriously. >> trump and his allies are pushing back. attacking hutchinson and questioning her credibility. all because of a dispute over one aspect of her testimony. the secret service arguing the details she recounted being told about trump lunging at his detail inside a presidential suv are not accurate. the former president clearly backing the secret service members part of the story. arnado and angle. >> they are grea