pressure on former staff members to stay loyal to the former president. >> we ask witnesses connected to the administration or campaign whether they have been contacted by any former colleagues or anyone else who attempted to influence or impact their testimony. >> witness intimidation, among a growing list of potential crimes the krit believes trump and his top adviser could be at the center of. >> it's a very serious issue. i would imagine the department of justice would be very interested in and take it seriously. >> trump and his allies are pushing back. attacking hutchinson and questioning her credibility. all because of a dispute over one aspect of her testimony. the secret service arguing the details she recounted being told about trump lunging at his detail inside a presidential suv are not accurate. the former president clearly backing the secret service members part of the story. arnado and angle. >> they are great people.

they devoted their lives and they were embarrassed by it. >> members of the committee say that arnado story doesn't add up. and they need to make it clear what he knows under oath. >> mr. arnado didn't have as clear of memories from this period of time. as i would say miss hutchinson did. >> congressman taking it a step further. saying in a tweet quote, there seems to be a major thread here. tony arnado who likes to lieiei. men while the committee issuing a subpoena to former white house counsel pat cipollone. a key figure they believe he has a lot to share. >> it would not be subject to privilege. >> cipollone may sit for a transcribed deposition. others fighting subpoena, frustration is mounting from the lack of action from the department of justice. >> mark meadows and dan have refused to come in and talk to

congress. we have the power of subpoena similar to what a court has. and the justice department has failed to indict them for that. all it does is send a message you have to resist the select committee. and you may be able to resist penalties. thatst a frustration. >> wednesday night at the reagan library in california, liz cheney using work of the committee to make a case it's time for the party to move past trump. >> the little girls and young women watching tonight, these days for the most part men are running the world. and it is really not going that well. >> we're learning new information about the testimony of secret service agent and the former white house deputy chief of staff tony arnado. sources say he met with the committee on two different occasions. once in january, another time in march. committee members have already said that his accounting of what happened inside that presidential limo on the day of january 6 is different than the

testimony of cassidy hutchinson. who said she was told by arnado that the former president lunged at his detail. but he was asked questions about where vice president mike pence was during the riot and what the president knew about it. and also what efforts were made to try and get the president to calm down supporters and leave the capitol. >> thank you very much. i want to bring in cnn political commentators. hello one and all. >> ron, let's talk about january 6 investigation. you heard ryan lay it out. witness intimidation, trying to discredit hutchinson. it's all part of the trump play book. he's trying to send a message to other witnesses. but will it work? >> look, this has been his play book all the way through his career. really. the real estate developer as a

celebrity, as president. kind of -- behaving in that manner. that's not surprising. i think witnesses are going to make their own judgment about pl pligs obligations to the country. vs. the personal obligation to him. certainly the committee has i think exceeded expectations and amount of evidence that has been able to amass so far. and by all indications it's nowhere near done. >> charlie, trump is hurling nasty jabs at hutchinson. no one disputes her real substance op her account. how scared must trump and allies be about what she said. they must be worried if they're going to these lengths. >> i think they have good reason to be concerned. hutchinson is very courageous. she provided a lot of context and details about what happened on that day. that corroborate what many of us thought and believed for

sometime. the former president sicked the mob on the capitol and cheered them on. didn't lift a finger to help and in fact encouraged it all and certainly sympathetic to those who wanted to hang pikemike pen. she was there where he was misbehaving. republicans in congress probably really regret the fact they appoint anybody to that select committee. to provide alternative point of view. they chose not to. and so you are hearing an argument that's powerful and frankly one sided. that is why the people in trump world ought to be real nervous and i suspect doj are watching all the hearings. the committee doesn't have to send anything over to doj. they can bring about indictments on their own. i would be very nervous right now if i were some of the folks in the white house and some on the hill who may have aid and abetted in what happened that day. >> considering what he said,

nobody wants to face trump's wrath. does this explain the deafening silence from elected republican officials and why we haven't heard from them come out and condemn a president willing to send armed rioters to the capitol? >> ron? >> sorry. that is the clear -- that silence is one of the most important dynamics of the whole thing. we talk about this before. people forget that nixon approval rating during watergate fell 40 points among republicans. and one of the reasons for that was the republican elected officials at every stage of the process who participated in the investigation, who vouch for the investigation, and vouched for the seriousness of the allegations and the evidence that accumulated. >> let me jump in. people didn't care during watergate until they cared. it took them a while.

i'm not sure we have the same sort of republican in office now. go on. sorry to interrupt. >> because what we really had among republicans are just two branchs. one like rubio and ted cruz, who have preempively dismissed the hearings before a word of testimony was heard. rubio called it garbage and a circus. the other side those who recognize that's what's happening is important. and mccarthy is in that first camp. they will not in any way vouch for or validate what's happening. mitch mcconnell says he's too busy to watch it. what you have is that leaves a vacuum for conservative media which is operating in full on rebutle mode and republicans are not hearing from voices they trust about the seriousness of the evidence that is being accumulated that the seriousness of the implication of the evidence and as a result it is a

very hard road moving public opinion. it is taking a bite of out trump. >> it is worth noting, you have to admit people going after hutchinson like jim jordan and mark meadows. mccarthy. they're hiding and refusing to talk to the committee. so, that sends a message. >> sure. this is classic. it's classic trump. if you cannot refute the message, rebuke the messenger. that's exactly what they're trying to do. trying to question her credibility and all the people that are in line with trump o doing the same thing. they also have had questions and concerns from the very beginning about this hearing. the fact there's no trump allies on the panel. which they should have had. to counter some of the testimony. but at the end of the day, a lot of what we're hearing and especially from miss hutchinson is damming. it shows the president not only stood by the sidelines while the

crowd was growing. gun wielding, protesters. were growing. he didn't do anything to stop it. even when they said hang mike pence. and his behavior behind the scenes. i think with all of that being firsthand testimony from hutchinson, that is impactful. the only thing that is secondhand that may need corroboration is what happened in the beast in term of him grabbing the wheel and going after a secret service agent. i would love to hear them under oath testify. i believe cipollone is going to do the right thing and testify. but as to whether or not this changes anything, for the first time after hutchinson testified i heard members of the conservative media where republicans get their news saying this is damming. and this move the ball down the field. so her testimony i do think moved the needle and more people are paying attention. whether or not that will change

hearts and minds at the end of the day remains to be seen. she certainly has made a difference in this hearing. >> i want to get to charlie, i was just handed this information. according to to the "new york times," the "new york times" is reporting the former president donald trump trump's political organization and his allies have paid for or promised to finance a legal fees of more than a dozen witnesses called in the congressional investigation. into the january 6 attack. how is that not interference? >> well, it sure sounds like interference to me. again, any time somebody who is under investigation tampers with witnesses, you got yourself a heap of problems. it really just sounds to me trump trying to buy people off. i'll pay your legal fees, you get the message. you'll be speaking up there. it will be inclined to be

sympathetic. i can't tell you i'm surprised by that information. the "new york times" just revealed. it's hardly shocking. but it's never the less disturbing. and i suspect that's one of the things that doj will look at. i was chair of the ethics committee we looked at this stuff all the time. we didn't want anybody trying to talk to witnesses or intimidating. particularly those under investigation. this is a potentially problematic if i'm donald trump it's a problem. >> alice, we're going to pay your legal fees. i mean? >> they're raising millions and millions of dollars for trump and trump related entities. a large part of the money is going to pay for legal fees. here's the travesty with all this. money is being raised from people that don't have expendable income. they're giving their hard earned money to donald trump to help in this process. the problem is, it's all based on lies. it's based on his ill conceived

notion that there was widespread election fraud and he actually won the election. that is the travesty here. we're still a year and a half later stil0 election when the american people are concerned with inflation and gas prices and food prices. and how they're going to put food on the table. we're still lit dpating the 2020 election. thatfind out what happened and up to january of. we need to hold people accountable. the fact that good people with good intentions that are strong republicans are still buying in to this ill conceived notion of widespread election fraud. >> i think that people can -- americans can juggle many things. and can be concerned about a number of different things. they can be concerned about gas prices and the economy and concerned about what happened on january 6. i don't committeely buy into people don't care about january 6. i think they do. the other priorities are just

hit closer to home. when you need to pay a mortgage. it's immediate. here's what i want to say, this to me almost sounds like the equal of paying off witnesses. >> yeah. i'm not a lawyer but certainly when you are offering that kind of material help to people, there's a strong implied -- you're not offering to pay lawyers if they're going to say something unflattering about you. right? that's n people raised as the blind spot in the january 6 investigation is exceeded expectations from the beginning, is really the same issue that biden faced in 2020 campaign. to what extent is this personalized in trump as a unique risk and what extent are the attitudes and the behaviors that he exemplifies. the big lie he put forward.

that inspired a lot of legislation and red states. making it more difficult to vote or changing the way elections are administered or promoting people promoting falsehood about 2020. running for positions of control over the machinery of 2024. this is bigger than donald trump. there's a risk in viewing simply as if he is marginalized or indicted that the challenge of democracy has been solved. that's not true. >> that's why it's important not to vote side. democrats have issues. what the republican party is doing to this country right now is frightening. everyone should be concerned about it. thank you all. i appreciate it. this is just in, according to "new york times" former president trump political organization and allies have paid for or promised to finance the legal fees of more than a dozen witnesses called in the congressional investigation in to the january 6 attack. again that's "new york times" reporting. we'll keep digging in to it. figure out and talk to legal ek

perts. is this interference? jeffrey toobin will be along. we'll move on. then president knew people if the mob were armed but didn't care. he said they weren't there to hurt him. but, they did hurt the brave officers trying to defend the capitol. i'll talk to one of them -- there he is. next. you don't know how much pressure you put on your septic system. but rid-x does. in a 21 month study, scientists proved that rid- x reduces up to 20% of waste build up every month. take the pressure off with rid-x. hey, i just got a text from my sister. you remember rick, her neighbor? sure, he's the 76-year-old guy who still runs marathons, right? sadly, not anymore. wow. so sudden. um, we're not about to have the "we need life insurance" conversation again, are we? no, we're having the "we're getting coverage

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hmmm. -morning, jen. no sleep again? i don't think coffee is your answer today. you think? my data shows you're not off to a good start. what? so a week of explosive testimony and damming new evidence from the january 6 select committee revealing what then president trump and his allies knew heading into january 6. i want to bring in former d.c. police officer. who defended our capitol on one of the darkest days in history. thank you for joining us this evening. you have some pretty specific feelings after hearing then

president was aware of the rioters that they were armed on january 6. but then sent them to the capitol anyway. get rid of the mags, send them in. >> yeah, i don't think he was just aware of it. i'm at the point i'm convinced that the violence was part of the plan. the president and his the people in his immediate orbit, that was their anticipation. that these individuals that they brought there on the ellipse would target u.s. capitol members of congress. and there would be violence. that was part of -- not full plan for january 6, but it was part of the plan. was to have that violent interaction between trump supporters and law enforcement and members of congress. >> you said you were ticked off. i know. you texted me.

i said how are you doing, you said pissed. >> yeah. i said my blood was boiling. i guess it's one thing to to have a gut feeling that that was the case and then to hear somebody -- you know, express the the kind conversations that were taking place the things the former president had said in the indifference on the part of not just him, but people like mark meadows and the other members of the trump inner circle. it's infuriating. >> this is something that you had been talking about and others had been denying. in trump land. a select committee released police radio transmission describing the weapons people were carrying near the ellipse.

>> gloks pistols in their waistband. >> weapon on his right hip. he's in the tree. >> make sure they know they have an elevated threat in the tree. south side of constitution avenue. look for the american flag face mask. cowboy boots, weapon on the right side hip. >> three men walking down the street in fatigue. wearing ar 15s. >> listen, this is something that had talked to you about when i interviewed you and the other officers that there were weapons. you saw guns. people had guns. if you listen to trump supporters, trump, the conservative media, these people were not armed. the danger was clear. but as we said trump told us

that take the macgs away. your life was put in danger that day. >> let me explain why, i see the conserva conservative news out lets and they try to talk about. and even politicians, ron johnson that was a big argument he made. it wasn't an insurrection because there weren't guns. listen, there were guns there. that's a fact. arrests were made at the ellipse. arrests made in the route to the u.s. capitol building. there weren't a lot of arrests made at the capitol. we were busy fighting for our lives. even had we made arrests there was no place to put the people. every officer that was at u.s. capitol was busy fighting to protect ron johnson's life. all the other members of congress that were inside the building. and their staff. and their own lives and other police officers that were dragged into this crazy mess. because of the former president

of the united states and the lies that he spewed and those that were around him spewed. >> i want you to take a listen to what we heard from liz cheney tonight. >> there's no question that what we saw happen on january 6 was a clearly an attempt to delay the count of the electoral votes. anybody who was there understands the violence that was involved. i'm frankly stunned that one of my opponents on the stage who is a member of the wyoming bar who has sworn oath to the constitution, would be in a position where she is suggesting that somehow what happened on january 6th was justified. or that somehow what happened that day the people have the right to ignore the rulings of the court. >> do you think that -- did you ever think a lawmakers like liz

cheney would be fighting for her political life against someone who denies what happened on january 6? >> yeah, i mean i'll be honest, i didn't particularly follow liz cheney's political career prior to january 6. but somebody who has developed a reputation, not just coming from the cheny household. but a reputation as one of the most conservative members of the congress, fighting for her job simply for the fact that she denounced donald trump and his actions. that is just become like par for the course. there's a lot of us who suffered for simply denouncing trump. that's the terrifying thing about the republican party right now is that people that participated in the january 6 insurrection are hailed as

heros. and people who support the idea that the 2020 election was stolen which by trump's subordinates own admissions, was absolute bs. but unfortunately the conservative media outlets are not interested in informing their viewers as to the reality of those lies. and nor are the leelected membe of congress who benefit from it. we have the crime itself of january 6. and then we have a lot of accessories after the fact. people that continue to profit from those lies. >> what do you think should happen to them? >> you know me real well. use your imagination.

seriously, i think we have to have accountability. garland has to grow a pair and pursue justice. we're done with the idea that modelling good behavior is somehow going to make these people behave well. i said before, it doesn't work with people that are shooting up our streets. it certainly is not going to work with someone like donald trump or mark meadows. if they committed a crime which to me i feel there's more than probable cause to warrant them getting a walk out of the mar-a-lago or where ever they reside. they should be put on trial and if they're convicted, go to jail. >> michael, thank you, sir.

appreciate you always. don't change. >> yep. supreme court dealing a blow to the epa that could set the country back years in fighting the climate crisis. will it erode the courts legitimacy with the public even more? then we found shipstation. now we're shipping out orders 5 times faster and thanks to shipstation's discounted rates we're saving a ton. honestly, we couldn't do it without shipstation join over 100,000 online sellers who get ship done with shipstation go to shipstation.com /tv and get 2 months free. buried in receipts, invoices and

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a major defeat today for the biden administration in the battle against climate crisis. the supreme court limiting the epa ability to curb carbon emissions from power plants. conservative majority ruling congress didn't get the agency such broad power to regulate emissions at the broad powers rest with congress itself. so, let's talk about this ruling. other issues regarding the high court. with legal analysts.

good evening to both of you. jeffrey, let's talk about this epa. we'll talk about that in a bit. first this, we got this in that the former president his political organization, not the white house. his political organization, not in the government role, and allies have paid for or promised and his allies -- to finance legal fees of a dozen witnesses called to the congressional investigation to january 6 attack. how is that not interference? >> it is not improper. >> interference, though. >> the custom and this has been done for years. when an organization is under investigation, whether it's a campaign or a company, it is often the case that the company or the organization will pay the legal fees for the people in the organization.

>> this isn't his campaign. this is when he was in the white house. >> that's right. and look, when bill clinton was investigated in the whole matter. he helped some of his people get pay legal fees. this is something that happens. it is suggestive. >> that was improper too. >> it was not -- it could be construed as improper and it is true it creates a bond among people. and it's worth noting when cassidy hutchinson decided that she want td to tell the full story to the congressional committee, she dropped her original lawyer who was part of the club. and got an independent lawyer. it is relevant but it's not against the rules for the organization to pay the legal fees of the people involved. >> ariva? >> the bigger issue that we are learning is that these witnesses many of the witnesses have been

pressured. they have been pressured by folks associated with donald trump and maybe some of the law firms so not give full testimony to the january 6 committee or give false testimony. i hear what he's saying, but i think there is something here. that the committee really needs to look at. and liz cheney made it clear, pressuring witnesses can be a crime. >> that's certainly true. i agree with you. that's a different issue than paying legal fees. >> okay. >> i think it's intertwined. the legal fees are paid by the same lawyers that maybe a part of the pressure campaign. that's where we need to do further investigation. >> okay. isn't this just one in a number of things that she's saying. it's all sort of adds up. you have paying for the legal fees for all the people, there's a pressure campaign.

isn't it -- >> you have to draw distinctions. paying legal fee ss not improper. if they are pressuring her, pressuring cassidy hutchinson or anyone else to protect the president former president, that's wrong. but the story in the times is about paying legal fees. if they're tell people to tell a false story and protect the president. that's wrong. they're different. >> all right. you want to respond? >> i think implicit is that she ducked the lawyers being paid by the trump team because in some ways they were restricting her in what she was able to say or felt comfortable saying. we haven't heard that directly. we read between the lines. that's exactly what cassidy hutchinson is saying. i got rid of the trump lawyers and i'm free to tell the truth about what i witnessed and observed on january 6. >> law and politics. strange.

thank you both. i appreciate it. the biden administration facing heavy losses with recent scotus decisions. my next guest says it's time to curb the courts power. congressman is here with me. he's next.

the supreme court today limiting the epa ability to regulate car bon emissions. it goes against warnings from scientists that country should limit greenhouse gas emissions at the pace of global warming continues to speed up.

president biden calling the ruling another devastating decision that aims to take our country backwards. joining me now representative. thank you. appreciate you joining us. good to see you. >> always good to see you. >> listen, forget about politics. of this for a minute if you can. what is this ruling going to mean for the future of this planet? >> justice summed it up best. in her dissent. she said this is a court that doesn't know much about climate change. they're not scientists. and they're basically handcuffing the epa. saying they can't have emissions regulations on coal plants system wide. they can't have caps. this is going to mean that there's going to be no regulation. no caps on carbon emissions and it's devastating for the fight against climate. >> so, the health and human

services secretary called the decision a public health disaster. and the data shows that people of color are most impacted by the climate crisis. 2021 report from the american lung association shows people of color are 61% more likely than white people to live in a county with a failing grade for at least one pollutant. are you worried that this ruling will disadvantage these communities even more? >> yes, and your question gets to the heart of the problem and why this court has a crisis of legitimacy. the reason we have congress make these decisions is that they are more representative. they have representatives from black communities from latino communities. around the country. you have a court that is completely unrepresentative. that is not elected and for six unelected people to make decisions on climate and take that power awe way from congress, take the power from the president who is appointing

the epa. is flat out wrong. and this is court that is disconnected and really is ago gaiting to itself power and taking it away from democratic decision making. >> a crisis of legitimacy or just unpopular? >> legitimacy. a time courts can make decisions as a check on majority power. this is a court that has totally been oblivious to any sense of public sentiment in modern life. oblivious taking away freedoms of roe v. wade. oblivious when it comes to talking about possibly taking away the right for gay marriage. possibly justice thomas writing about the right for contraception. i have come out for term limits. and the president's commission suggested term limits. why should people who are appointed 40 years ago be making decisions today? for our democracy.

>> i want to ask you this, it sound almost similar to when democrats say a crisis of legitimacy, similar to the former president saying just because he didn't agree with something that it was illegitimate. that it was fake. or that it was -- it's not you don't think it's a slippery slope you are going down saying the supreme court is a crisis of legitimacy? it may not be popular. >> i think lincoln said that about the dread scott court. fdr said it about the court. the difference is i'm not saying go disobey the supreme kourlt decision. i'm not saying that just because the supreme court ruled this way that somehow we have to defy the decision. what i'm saying is this court no longer has the confidence of the american public and we need to have fundamental reform and like lincoln called out the dread scott court. we need to be campaigning against this court.

this court -- we the people. the american people get to decide about fundamental rights and decide about the constitution. get to direct policy about climate. it's not an elected justices or taking away too much power. unelected justice. they're doing their jobs incorrectly and point it out. they're partisan. they're not some deliberate body. they are following a partisan agenda and not -- shouldn't be treated as some holier than thou people. >> there's no denying it is partisan. right. when you have a democratic president or liberal president, they nominate liberal and democratic judges. same thing with republicans and conservative president. it is by nature political the supreme court. thank you, representative. i appreciate you appearing. we'll be right back. these folks don't have time to go to the post office they use stamps.com all the services of the post office only cheaper

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em it till. that justice maybe finally be served. >> i can understand how difficult it maybe for the family to have gone through this process and now find what may be a smoking gun. >> last week an arrest warrant discovered by till family members inside a dusty box in the courtroom. the warrant charged roy bryant and then wife with kidnapping african-american teen em et till and ordered arrest. both men were charged and acquitted by an all white jury. they later admitted to the murder in a magazine article. both men died decades later. bryant's widow was never charged. now in her 80s, the family is hopeful the discovery of the warrant will lead to her arrest and justice, something they long pushed for. >> does she still think of how her actions directly led to the

most egregious, racism and aggression towards a child? >> till's murder in 195 is believed to be a catalyst for the civil rights movement in america. it happened when the 14-year-old chicago teen was visiting relatives in mississippi. 20-year-old bryant falsely accused him of making unwanted advances on her in a grocery store. just four days later, her husband and his half brother abducted him from his uncle's home. >> i saw two white men at the foot of my bed. one had a gun and a flashlight and made him get up and put his clothes on. >> the men took him outside to a car where a woman was waiting. >> is this the right boy? >> the two men beat and tortured till before shooting him in the head and tossing his body in a river. the body was returned to chicago disfigured, beyond recognition. his mother insisted on an open casket at his funeral. wanting the world to know what happened to her son.

investigators charged both men with the murder. months after their acquitle both men told a magazine they actually did kill till. but double jeopardy laws prevented them from being tried again. in 2004 the justice department reopened the case. exhuming the body. a grand jury declined to indict and the case was closed in 2007. in 2017, vanity pair published an article which an author claimed they asked about the alleged advances. she replied quote, that part is not true. adding nothing that boy did could ever justify what happened to him. >> all along we knew that she was lying about what he said and never threatened her or grabbed her hand. none of that happened. >> in 2018, the department of the justice reopened a probe in the murder. the agency civil rights division concluded it could not prove she lied. and investigators say she denied that she recanted her testimony.

>> we want is accountability. >> cnn reached out but hasn't heard back from her. the question remains, could she who now lives in north carolina, finally be arrested and charged? >> i don't think they're going to arrest this woman. and put her on a bus. given her age and the age of this arrest warrant. i find it unlikely that both mississippi and north carolina would agree to put her on a bus and bring her back to jail in mississippi. without a new judge passing on this issue before that. >> in the fight for justice for the family hasn't stopped since 1955. they have been trying since that very moment to get some sort of justice for em met till. another part they discovered on their own inside the courthouse in the basement. hoping for change and hoping for justice to finally be served. >> thank you so much. thank you for watching. our coverage continues. skin wa.

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. a warm welcome to our viewers joining us in the united states and around the world. just ahead on "cnn newsroom" -- >> for this girl to sit there and just -- i think just make up stories. >> mark meadows and dan scavino have refused to come talk to congress. we have the power of subpoena similar to what a court has and the justice department has failed to indict them for that. >> at this moment we're confronting a domestic threat that we have never faced before. >> allegations of intimidation, so