get a bill on his be desk. on monday, don't miss the special, the fourth in america, with fireworks across the country. that starts on monday night at 7:00 eastern. thank you so much for joining us this evening. i'm kate bolduan. >> i'm bofl blitzer in washington. tonight, two major decisions in the wake of select committee. one appears to bolster a disputed piece of what she told the panel. the other concerns potential witness tampering concerns raised by liz cheney in her closing remarks on tuesday. >> our committee commonly asks witnesses connected to mr. trump's administration or

campaign whether they have been contacted by any of their former colleagues or anyone else who attempted to influence or impact their testimony. without identifying any of the individuals involved, let me show you a couple of samples of answers we received to this question. this is a call received by one of our witnesses. quote, a person let me know you have your deposition tomorrow. he wants me to let you know he's thinking about you. he knows you're loyal, and you're going to do the right thing when you go in for your deposition. i think most americans know that attempting to influence witnesses to testify untruthfully presents very serious concerns. >> tonight, cnn has learned that this example and one other example that congresswoman cheney highlighted were both directed at cassidy hutchinson. cnn has also learned more about

the testimony about what fellow white house staffer told her and secret service head of detail. it was about the ride the former president wanted to take to the u.s. capitol and what happened when he was told no. >> the president had very strong, very angry response to that. tony described him as being irate. the president said something to the effect of, i'm the f'ing president, take me up to the capitol now. to which bobby responded, sir, we have to go back to the west wing. the president reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel. mr. engle grabbed his arm and said, sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. we're going back to the west wing. we're not going to the capitol.

mr. trump then used his free hand to lung towards bobby engle, and he motioned towards his clavicles. >> was mr. engle in the room as he told you this story? >> he was. >> did mr. engle correct or disagree with any part of this story from mr. ornato? >> he did not. >> did they ever after that tell you that what mr. ornato had just said was untrue? >> neither mr. ornato nor mr. engle ever told me it was untrue. >> so there's new reporting on that tonight as well as the apparent attempt to influence ms. hutchinson's testimony. ryan, what more are you learning about that alleged incident in the presidential suv back on

january 6th? >> reporter: well, of course if you know that this is in dispute because soon after hutchinson's testimony, officials from the secret service started coming out saying they were prepared to refute part of what she had to say and saying the two agents in question would be willing to testify under oath and dispute part of what she said, specifically that the former president made an effort to grab a hold of the steering wheel and there was some sort of physical altercation with bobby engle. what we have learned talking to two individuals who worked in the secret service in the months after january 6th told noah that this was a story that was passed around for quite some time. many agents had heard this story about a president who was angry in the presidential suv on january 6th and demanded to go to the capitol. one of those sources said the

story did include parts that showed the president was lunging towards the front seat. there is some dispute about whether or not he got ahold of the steering tweel or contact with any of the agents, but the one thing no one has disputed is that the president was angry and wanted to go to the capitol. that is what the january ofth committee is most focused on. we should also point out one of the sources that talked to noah also talked to the driver of the b presidential suv, so that is a firsthand account from someone who was in the limo when it happened. >> you also have new details about who may have tried to influence hutchinson's testimony. >> reporter: this is a big concern for the january 6th committee because they want to make sure they're getting accurate information that is not shaded in any way, shape, or form by the former president and his allies. we have learned that those two

examples liz cheney provided on tuesday were both directed at cassidy hutchinson, their star witness. we have learned that at least one of those examples was delivered through an interneed yar of mark meadows. mark meadows, through his spokesperson ben williamson said they denied that meadows or anyone in his orbit made any attempt to influence hutchinson or her testimony, but this is something the committee is keeping a close eye on. there's a report in the new york times this week that outlines how any of these witnesses, their lawyers are being paid for by organizations with close ties to the former president. the committee is going to work very hard to make sure there's no undue influence in this testimony. they view that to be a veers problem. keep in mind, if they find direct evidence that witnesses were targeted and sbim kated with the express purpose of not

telling the truth, that could lead to a crime. >> kplexcellent reporting. joining us now, the author of a book to end the presidency, the power of impeachment. thanks for all your important work over the years. you heard that new reporting from ryan nobles on capitol hill. what is this new avenue, potential witness tampering actually mean for the investigation both for the committee and potentially for the department of justice? >> well, it means that in addition to the very serious crimes of inciting and aiding and abetting insurrection and seditious conspiracy that appear to have been committed by the president's circle and perhaps the president himself in the leadup to the january 6th attack on the capitol, in addition to that, we now have essentially in real time, the very serious

federal felony of witness tampering and witness intimidation under 18 u.s. codes section 15-12 b, that is sentenced to something like 20 years, 30 years in prison. and it's serious, and it really puts a special light on the courageous testimony of this young woman. she is under threats. they're implicit. they're like, oh, what a nice little dog you have there. they are essentially god father four. i don't know which role marlin brandow would play, whether he would be the president or mark meadows, but this is serious stuff. she clearly has every incentive to tell the truth because instead of being rewarded for what she's saying, she's being threatened, and she's saying it

anyway. she's also a loyal trump supporter. she's been with him all the time. what's her reason to lie? these guys are not testifying under oath, and they are really part of the trump cult. so i think we see serious witness tampering that the department of justice has to investigate urgently and seriously. >> but professor, let me interrupt for a second. how difficult is it to make a legal case for witness tampering? what is needed for proof? >> essentially an overt act, a statement that a reasonable person would understand as a threat or as an offer to treat one more favorably if one gives favorable testimony. it's really not that difficult. it's not rocket science. witness tampering is part of the stock and trade of criminal prosecutors in mob cases and we

almost never have such dramatic evidence of it. we haven't seen it all yet. i understand the committee has developed and is developing still further k, and people who know the truth and have something to gain by hiding it are hiding it if they're taking the fifth or refusing to show up. we've never had a sitting president try to overthrow the government so that he could stay in power, and we've certainly never had one who when investigated for that, basically wields power as if he were still president and as though he is accountable to no one. unless he is held accountable, our democracy is in grave danger because -- >> so what -- >> if he can get away -- >> based on what we know now, do

you believe the u.s. justice department will try to bring an indictment against the former president related to these events of january 6th? >> well, i wish i knew. but merit garland is a friend and former student of mine. he's an honest man. he's serious. he said he would go to the top if that's where the evidence points, and there's indication certainly from the searches and seizures of both john eastman and of others, strong evidence that the justice department is not stopping with the foot soldiers. it's going to be generals. and the biggest general of all of course is donald trump. i do think the odds are he will be indicted. >> so you think merit garland, the attorney general of the united states will indict the former president of the united states? >> if i had to guess, that would be my guess. >> what are the main hurdles right now to per -- pursuing an

indictment of donald trump? where would you be concerned? >> with the possibility of a hung jury, someone who basically believes with trump that he can do no wrong. i would think it would be worth having an indictment anyway. i recognize indicting a former president would generate lots of social heat, perhaps violence, but not indicting him would invite another violent insurrection. i would be weighing two terrible choices, but it's clear to me, if i were the attorney general, which is worse? it's worse to say the president of the united states can hold on to power, do whatever it takes in order to prevent the transition, the peaceful transition of power for the first time in our history and get away with it. because once that has happened, democracy is at an end. >> strong words indeed.

before i let you go, if the former white house council pat cipollone does sit for a limited deposition with the january 6th committee, what's the first question you would want him to be asked? >> i would ask him whether the accounts of the president's urgent desire to join a mob that he knew was armed and that he knew and said was not armed to get him, whether his desire to join them in the capitol as reported by many witnesses, whether that is what he observed himself. and there's no executive privilege that would prevent him from answering that question. >> well, we will see what happens. these are very dramatic moments indeed. professor tribe, thank you for joining us. i want to continue this conversation down the road. so from having perhaps the most powerful job inside the white house to being right at the

center of a political and legal storm that now appears to be growing, mark meadows who was trump's white house chief of staff has certainly come quite a distance with the last year and a half. here's 360's randi kay. >> i stand for life, liberty, and lower taxes. as we look at that, i'm unapoll jetically pro-life. >> that was mark meadows long before he aligned himself with donald trump. a year later, meadows was elected to the house of representatives from north carolina's 11th congressional district. it was a rise in congress. in 2013, just eight months into his freshman term, he became known as the architect of the government shutdown, and gained recognition of the coalition that served dozens of house republicans. >> i believe i'm representing the will of the people. >> in 2015, he used his

influence to oust john boehner from his leadership role. >> rose through the ranks of the republican party by doing the difficult work and advocating for republican policies. >> years later, when donald trump was in the white house, meadows seemed to have his back, introducing a resolution to impeach rob rosenstein. in 2020, trump hand picked meadows to be his fourth and final chief of staff. >> as with always those who get close to donald trump, he asks for too much, he demands too much loyalty. he expects these people to cross lines that should never be crossed, ethically or morally, in particular as it relates to january 6th. >> mark meadows has turned over

more than 6,000 domts to the january 6th committee but has refused to cooperate beyond that. but the committee has questions, lots of them. there's the issue of meadows' lack of urgency on january 6th as described by his top aid, cassidy hutchinson. >> i was surprised he wasn't a little bit more alarmed and wasn't a little bit more aggressive in requesting for the former president to call off the protest at the capitol. >> meadows did share hundreds of text messages with the committee including some exchanged with rally organizers and others in trump's inner circle calling on him to stop the january 6gth attack. in one message, meadows writes, i love it about a plan for selecting a group of trump alternate selectors. he pushed a bunked conspiracy theory about the 2020 election

being stolen. at one point, contacting national security officials with what he said was potential evidence of china hijacking the u.s. election by using thermostats. that's according to two direct sources with knowledge of the situation. >> i'm not surprised that he would go to these extreme lengths to please president trump. it does not surprise me, but it disappointed me because i thought he was better than that. >> now meadows has gone silent. his lawyer declining our request for comment. >> clearly what's happened in recent weeks is i think not only done damage to the president, but those closest to him like mark meadows. now all that stink has splashed up on him, and you can't wash away the stink. up next, liz cheney's uphill battle to keep her seat in the u.s. congress and what it says

about today's political climate here in the united states. later, with brittney griner's trial now underway after five months in captivity, an exclusive conversation with her wife about how the wnba star holding up. we'll be right back. when you have technology that's's easier to control... that can scale across all your clouds... we got that right? yeah, we got that. it's easier to be an innovator. so you can do more incredible things. [whistling]

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. for a lawmaker who's both in the national spotlight for her role in widely viewed televised hearings and the owner of one of the most storied family names in politics, liz cheney is struggling right now to keep her job. the reason why i speak volumes about where the republican party are right now. last night, she faced off against her primary opponents in a debate where disproven beliefs about the 2020 election lie ran very deep. >> i think that in woke woke we

have tremendously secure elections. i also know that the truth matters. and the claims that mrs. hagaman is making about the 2020 elections are the same claims for which rudy giuliani was disbarred. they are simply not true. it is not true that there was sufficient fraud to change the results of the 2020 election. now, if she is standing up here claiming that the election was stolen or there was fraud sufficient to overturn the election, she ought to say it. otherwise, she needs to stop making claims that are not true and tell the people of woke woke the truth. >> the opponent she's referring to is endorsed be by the former president. the other candidates also criticized the january 6th committee and all cast out on the 2020 presidential election. some also raised unfounded

positions about dr. anthony fauci and covid vaccines. another suggested that the united states pushed ukraine into, quote, being against the russian government despite the fact that it was russia of course that invaded ukraine. the answers say a lot about modern politics right now and liz cheney's estrangement from it hp lerts discuss with conserved columnist. what does it say right now about the state of the republican party that congresswoman cheney, someone who is very conservative, a lifeline republican may end up losing her seat in congress to a candidate who believes those lies? >> it doesn't say much more than we already knew which is republicans that take along trump don't tend to be along for this world and they are

marginalized and attacked by other republicans. that look to be what will happen in her home state of wyoming which voted for trump percentage wise more than any other state in the union, which says a lot. but listen. sometime ago, the republican party decided to conservativism for trumpism and this effort to decapitate never trumpers or parade their severed heads around became much more interesting and satisfying even than taking on democrats, the opposition party, so there's been some giddiness in trying to primary and get rid of people like liz cheney, and by going into the january 6th committee, i think she put a huge target on her back. she did that probably knowing it would sacrifice her political

career in congress, but i think she did it because it was the right thing to do. >> if liz cheney loses her republican primary in august, then what? could her clout on the committee or moral high ground in politics in general be impacted while she's in that lame duck period, or could she even be empowered to speak her own mind, or more empowered, i should say? >> i have been talking to some folks on the hill, both democrats and republicans. and there's this cynicism, this idea that she must want something out of this. there must be some reason she's doing this because why would anyone just do something for the good of it? it's hard for me to find a good ulterior motive for her. she's not dumb. i think she knows she'll probably lose in wyoming. looking ahead to the future, maybe 2024, i'm not sure what natural constituencies there are

for liz cheney. i always have to remind people, as much you would celebrate her for taking on donald trump, she's very conservative, far more than people may know. so i think the folks that like her now for her courage are probably not her voters, and on the right she's become sort of traitorous. she really wants to tell the truth and provide a road map for other republicans to speak out and use this kind of messaging. she said that the truth matters. she's called donald trump a domestic threat. i think she wants to give permission to other republicans to talk that way, to talk that honestly about donald trump whatever happens to her after that. >> she's got a lot of courage. no doubt about that. it's very rare for a republican in office to call out trump's

lies. if con woman cheney loses along with congressman adam kinzinger, will that push back be nonexistent among members of the gop? >> they are two of the most public faces of the right-wing resistance in congress. over in the senate, you have mitt romney from time to time and he has a few more years before he has to run again, but certainly the numbers are dwindling which has made what cheney and kinzinger have done all the more remarkable. as the january 6th committee hearings go on, maybe you'll find some more courage. you're certainly seeing some more push back from the right from his team and fox news. i guess you could see some more.

but losing a liz cheney, losing an adam kinzinger are going to be devastating for the party. not if you ask the party, but for the health of this nation and our democracy. >> they both deserve an enormous amount of credit to have the guts to do what they're doing. thank you so much for coming in and joining us. after being detained for more than four months in russia, we now have new details in the trial for brittney griner. also, cnn spoke exclusively with her wife who's calling on the biden administration to bring her home. we'll be right back. the water in your body to unblock your gut. ...free your gut. and your mood will follow. ♪ it wasn't me by shaggygy ♪ you're never responsible for unauthorizeded purchases on your discover card.

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up to a $650 prepaid card with a qualifying bundle. today, the world got a brief glimpse of brisny griner heading to a moscow courtroom. she has spent more than 130 days in prison after russian authorities say they found two cartridges of cannabis oil in her luggage at the airport. it's punishable by up to ten years in prison by russia. the u.s. believes she is being wrongfully detained. they say she's in good spirits and is keeping up the faith right now. she declined to share her thoughts on the charge. in an exclusive interview,

griner's wife explained how hard it's been waiting for answers. >> it's really difficult. it's really, really difficult. this is not a situation where the rhetoric is matching the action. it's been the hardest thing to balance because i can't let up because it's 100. it's over 130 days, and bg's still not now. >> joining us now, the anchor on inside politics sunday, abbiphillip. a great interview you did with cherelle griner. tell us what she told you about this dire situation underway right now. >> well, the start of the trial today in russia is really the beginning of a process that cherelle griner knows is going to be a lengthy one and one that is unlikely to end in a positive way for her life. she repeated this figure to me, 99% of criminal trials in russia end in a conviction.

so there's an awareness there that at the end of this process, it's very unlikely that britney drien griner is going to be acquitted. one thing to keep in mind about cherelle griner is she is actually a lawyer herself, and she's very clear eyed that this kind of legal process is not what we're used to in the united states. so with that knowledge, she's advised her wife to approach it very differently. take a listen. >> i want people to try and put themselves in her shoes and just think about the fact that, you know, this is not our typical system. so bg is not walking into a situation where there is a balance of justice. she's walking into a situation where their judicial system has a 99% conviction rate. so in their system, there is no

innocent. in their system, it's guilty. so she's having to make decisions that are -- that's going to preserve her physical and mental health right now. so just, you know, be gracious in understanding that she's having to navigate something totally different than what an american would have to navigate in a judicial system -- in our judicial system here. to them, they're treating her like a princess, basically because they do things differently. i'm not trying to bash what they do, but i don't agree with it. i don't think they're treating her in a way that they could be considered harshly. i think they think they're treating her as best as their system allows, which should tell you a lot, because i think that's terrible still. >> what could the biden administration do today to demonstrate to you that they're really on it? >> well, again, you know, for

me, we're at 130 days, and so the only thing the biden administration can do for me is getting my wife back to be very honest and frank with you. >> she is talking to her wife pretty regularly. they have been writing letters to one another. she's been talking to brittney griner about what is coming up. one of the things that was kind of left unsaid there was how brittney griner is going to be pleading in this case in russia. one of the things that you don't hear cherelle griner talking too much about is trying to litigate the facts of the arrest, this accusation that she's being charged with. and one of the reasons for that is because she believes that at the end of the day, that is not what's going to get brittney griner out. she thinks what's going to get

her wife out of russia is a deal that's brokered by the united states government and the russian government, what happens a trade of one prisoner for another or one prisoner for two. remember, panother citizen is still there as well. to put a deal on the table with russia, because at the end of the day, they do not believe at the end of this process doctor tl can be an acquittal of any kind in a justice system that she doesn't have a whole lot of confidence in. >> bottom line, is cherelle griner -- and you did an excellent interview with her. is she disappointed in the biden administration's efforts so far to secure her wife's release? >> she says they can do more to demonstrate they actually are doing what they say they are doing. she's pretty disappointed. they were supposed to have a phone call about a week and a

half ago for their anniversary. they weren't able to have that phone call. that still has not happened, and i think that's attributing to her sense that the administration can do much more. >> i know you're going to be having a lot more coming up on your show sunday, 8:00 a.m. eastern sunday morning. we'll all be watching. up next, across the nation, more than a dozen states are now in the midst of a legal battle over abortion bans. some states are shutting down their clinics. others are looking for an influx of patients across state lines. details when we come b back. ...free your gut. and your mood will follow.w.

legal fights are now underway in more than a dozen states over abortion bans and limits. the latest in oklahoma are blocking states to block a pre-roe abortion ban more than a century old and asking for a criminal ban to abortion law enacted earlier this year. they also sued to enforce a pre-roe enforce in that state. all this comes after president biden working with governors and

calling on congress to act on abortion rights. >> congress is going to have to act to codify the roe into federal law. as i said yesterday, the filibuster should not stand in the way of us being able to do that. the choice is clear. we either elect federal representatives who will codify roe or republicans who will try to ban abortions nationwide. >> but right now with more states increasing abortion restrigss, some women are forced to travel across state lines just to receive services. it's expected to put a strain on some clinics. cnn' has the story. >> reporter: they come by car and plane to this minnesota clinic open for its access to tran poration arteries connecting minnesota to states banning abortion. >> some patients may fly, some

patients may prefer to drive. being near the highways that we are and the airport in bloomington really gives patients the most options. >> now, whole women's health is one clinic bracing to treat more patients with i-35 connecting it to three of the states with the most restrictive abortion laws, including texas and south dakota right next door. plan parenthood ceo is also bracing for an influx. >> we expect to see a minimum of 10-25 more people coming to seek abortion. >> can you guys handle the increase? >> i don't know. there is already a health care worker shortage, and we have been struggling with that since the beginning of the pandemic. >> and that worries liz. >> i thought i would have two boys. >> who knows the challenge of seeking this type of health care even before the supreme courtover turned roe v wade.

six years ago, she says she and her husband went in for an ultrasound and left devastated. >> it was friday the 13th that my doctor told me the news that this baby was incompatible with life. that's when i decided i wanted an abortion as soon as possible. >> she said her unborn bay's brain didn't fully develop. >> and that diagnosis meant that i would either miscarry at any time or that moments after i gave birth, the baby would die. i knew that continuing to carry a baby that was not compatible with life was not good to be good for my mental or emotional health. >> she's worried women like her will have an even tougher time getting an abortion. >> that is worrisome. i would be honor in order to be a resource for anyone that needs it. >> planned parenthood says it's

hearing from people like her offering to be a resource for people who live far from airports or don't have cars. >> someone reached out to me who owns a plane who wants to organize people who have small planes and can land in rural parts of the country and can safely transport women to larger urban centers. >> but even for people with transportation, planned parenthood expects appointments will be in short supply. >> i do think we'll see more use of abortion pills by mail because poims are going to be difficult to get. >> and planned parenthood told us that on monday, the first business day after the scotus decision, it received its highest volume of calls ever, up 50% with most of those callers from out of state. additionally, the ceo you heard from said she took about 1,000

calls last saturday from people volunteering to help. >> thank you so much for that report. coming up, tragedy in ukraine right now after yet another deadly russian missile attack struck a residential apartment complex. the latest on the war and the new military aid from the united states when 360 returns. when you have tetechnology that's easier to control... that can scale across all your clouds... we got that right? yeah, we got that. it's easier to be an innovator. so you can do more incredible things. [whistling] ugh-stipated... feeling weighed down by a backedup gut" miralax is different. it works naturally with the war in your body to unblock your gut.

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but i'm happier, i'm healthier, and i have a new lease on life. golo is the only thing that will let you lose weight and keep it off. who loses 138 pounds in nine months? i did! golo's a lifestyle change and you make the change and it stays off. (soft music) as the u.s. authorizes another $820 million in military aid for ukraine, officials there are reeling from yet another deadly missile attack by the russians. this time in the southern city of odesa. at least 21 are dead, 40 injured after the early morning attack that hit a residential apartment complex and a community center. one of the dead, a child. ukraine says one of the buildings actually struck in the attack was a rehabilitation

center for children with health problems. the attack comes a day after russians withdrew from snake island, the site of one of the most memorable early clashes in this brutal war. cnn's scott mclean is joining us from kyiv with the latest. once again the russians have struck mostly residential targets. what are ukrainian officials saying about the damage right now? >> reporter: well, this is why the ukrainians continue to refer to russia as a terror state because they continue to target these civilian areas. this was actually in the odesa region in a village right along the coastline. we're talking about sites that clearly have no military value, and the ukrainians say that there were no military sites around them either. as you mentioned, a nine-story apartment building, a children's

rehabilitation facility, and a summer camp as well. the type of missile used here as well would have been fired from an airplane over the black sea. it's the same type of missile, according to the president, that was used in that mall attack in kremenchuk. this is the type of missile that could sink a military ship, clearly not meant to be fired into these civilian areas at all. but that is what we are seeing here. what the intended target is -- because this tup of missile is not quite as accurate as the more modern varieties. what the intended target is is not entirely clear. but one thing that stood out to me is the area these were fired in is only about five miles or so from the only critical bridge from the far southwest corner of ukraine and the rest of the country. this is a bridge the russians have hit over and over again over the course of this war. these missiles can strike anywhere in the country, wolf, as we're finding out, and the ukrainians have been asking for

more and more air defense systems. and it seems like they're getting that from the united states, which has just been announced tonight. as part of this deal, they are also getting more ammunition and radar systems as well. i should point out that the russians continue to insist that they don't hit civilian sites, reiterating what president putin said earlier this week that they don't need to. they say that they have the technology, they have the intelligence to know exactly what they're aiming at and to be able to hit it with precision. but clearly this is just one more example of the fact that that's not true. they continue to hit hospitals, schools, apartment buildings. the list goes on, wolf. >> yeah, they hit a shopping mall just the other day, killing a whole bunch of people as well. is there any indication these strikes could have been some form of retribution for the ukrainians recapturing what's called snake island? >> reporter: it is really unclear. it's really difficult to get inside vladimir putin's mind. but snake island makes it much

more difficult, wolf, to hit the odesa region. it's one less launch pad that the russians have to strike this region that really they have not been able to reach by land. there are plenty of land or natural barriers and also ukrainian resistance that have prevented the russians from getting anywhere close to odesa. and so instead they've resorted to lobbing missals in that direction. the ukrainians hope there is at least less shelling going into odesa now that snake island is back in their hands. >> thanks very much. we'll be right back.

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if you don't have plans for the fourth of july, cnn has you covered. cnn will celebrate the 246th anniversary of our nation's independence with our special "the fourth in america" right here on cnn until 1:00 a.m. eastern. in the meantime, that's it for me. thanks for watching. the news continues. so let's hand it over to sara so let's hand it over to sara sidner and "cnn tonight." -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com wolf, thank you. good to see you. i am sara sidner and this is "cnn tonight." we're tracking developments relating to testimony from a former trump white house aide. how impactful cassidy hutchinson testimony has been. proof, the ongoing campaign to discredit her by donald trump herself and his allies since he