from his informal interview before but that it wouldn't have been worth the risk. >> perhaps, also, follow up on that point you're here to tell us about your perspective, not just credibility of other testimony. that might be part of the focus. a source telling cnn the committee actually was focused on the prospective, not just the testimony saying and i quote, mr. cipollone provided a great deal of new information relevant to the select committee's investigation, which further under scores president trump's sup supreme duty. that's a huge compocomponent, r? >> is that for me? >> yes. >> yes, it is -- ron, i don't

mean to step on you. it a huge component. zoe said a couple little things, they're playing it cupkind of c because they will have a hearing next week but i expect in fact, they've got some real combustible stuff that is going to break big when they do it and she's being kind of coy about it. so i think you can expect some fairly big bombshells. >> well, let's bring you in here, ron. you're not meant to be coy. i know you're not. you're a straight shooter. cipollone defended trump in the first impeachment hearing. he's no never trumper by any stretch of the imagination. the fact he's from trump's inner circle, the fact he wasn't like jump champing at the bit to come in and testify, he was not witness number one. he's just coming in. how important is it that this is the person, this is the guy that is coming to testify now? how important is this to the overall committee's ability to make the case to the american electret about what happened and

led up to it? >> you know, i'm not a lawyer or an investigator but as a journalist, you go to the sources on the outside and get information and move closer and closer to the central protagonists and have them confirm what you or deny what you already know and i thought it was given the accounts that we have heard and plmr. cipollone's presents at so many critical moments that not only have legal exposure but political, the attempt to replace the leadership of the justice department he's there. the conversation with mark meadows on january 6th where mark meadows, you know, through ms. hutchinson's testimony doesn't think they're doing anything wrong he's there. he's part of that conversation. so he is -- we're talking about whether he's adding new information and i'm sure that will be significant but just confirming some of the things that have been said that put him in the room, i think have just

enormous political consequences. look, is it going to crater donald trump's support? no. there is no information that's going to do that but is all of this i think lowering the ceiling on his potential support, lowering the ceiling on the number of americans that can trust him with the power of the presidency again? i do think. >> maybe it's raising the fatigue factor. i want to listen whands of things and how often, frankly, we've heard pat cipollone's name and all these conversations. listen to this. >> i remember pat saying to him something to the effect of the riders have gotten to the capitol, mark, we need to go see the president now and mark looked up at him ask said he doesn't want to do anything, pat. i remember pat saying something to the effect of mark, we need to do something more. they're literally calling for the vice president to be f-ing hung. and mark had responded something to the effect of you heard him, pat, he thinks mike deserves it,

he doesn't think they're doing anything wrong. >> this happened on january 6th, harry, as the riot was underway. if cipollone verified that, you can check off the list in terms of whatever sort of non-criminal prosecution elements you have for these congressional related discussions about him refusing to stop the riot, even as people are telling him the vice president of the united states, the person who is the number two person in the line of succession, that this is the person they're building gallows for. i mean, what are the legal implications, one, that this was stated and hutchinson may have heard it but also, this would have been something that they tried as a facility it seems to prevent. >> by the way, it's really interesting. i don't think people have caught on. hutchinson, 25-year-old kid in the white house so sort of powerless does cipollone feel that he's going to her, not meadows because meadows won't

even listen to him. that's really pretty and cu culpatory of meadows. we'll add the january 3rd meeting where cipollone says this is a murder suicide pact about the doj letter. so even if he doesn't say that private conversation with trump, he gives a lot. he only took about six little breaks today to talk with his counsel. all and all, i think he was pretty responsive and as you say, the things he can corroborate just for starters are really, really big. >> you know, ron, just thinking about mark meadows as you raise the point about the conversation. i remember thinking he seemed like a defeated person when cassidy hutchinson was describing, almost demoralized and dejected in many respects looking at his phone, scrolling around and kept describing it.

i wonder to what extent that central feeling can be descriptive of how the republican party feels about the power of donald trump overall in the sense of what are you going to do? you said yourself, will this impact the voters? will it crater the base in someway? is there some analogy there that people aren't necessarily seeing? >> it's interesting. i guess i didn't read her testimony as feeling dejected. i thought of him as a willing participant from everything she was saying, someone enabling the worst instincts of the president on this rather than functioning as a way of chief of staff should in often protecting a president from their worst instincts and look, i mean, that byte that you playeed that migh not be the most significant legally in terms of his legal exposure but for voters thanks may still be the easiest question to grasp about all of this in terms of their

assessment of donald trump and his suitability to be president. at the moment that the rioters were rampaging through the capitol trying to hang the vice president and potentially kill or name other elected officials, he did nothing and the chief of staff told the white house counsel according to the testimony that he didn't want to do anything because he didn't think they were doing anything wrong and if pat cipollone confirms that, i think that is an enormous political consequence. >> well, certainly can't wait to see whatever comes from that particular interview and wouldn't it be great if we had one from mark meadows to describe how were you feeling that day, mark? laura coates said maybe dejected, something like that. you're saying something different. how about your clarify it? just, i don't know, i'm just asking for a friend. thank you, gentlemen, appreciate it. >> thanks, laura. i want to turn to cnn narks l security analyst and former homeland security official j

juliette, the author of "the devil never sleeps." so glad to see you tonight, as well. just tonight you heard the doj giving new details about kpt tense s -- extensive planning by the oath keepers to prepare for violence on january 6th included militia style training for quote hasty ambushes, a death list with a name of georgia election officials on it and the filing detailing firearms and explosives seized after the insurrection. how alarmed are you by these new details? >> it's alarming but there is something hopeful about it and i think that's that it's challenging this narrative that had been pushed with his allies that january 6th was just sort of a get-togethers that got out of hand. the extent to which there was planning and they call them qrs, quick reaction forces that were ready to deploy, they were waiting for a signal from trump. they were armed around and in

d.c. these are explosive devices found in their homes including grenades, there is -- how do we know this? we know this because people have to remember that oath keepers are being charged for sedition but seven are cooperating and three pled guilty. in other words, they have the deal and are talking. the group is pfractured which i good. some of them are talking. that's how this information is coming out. laura, there is a second piece to this that will play out next week and ron picked up on it, as well. there is a legal issues with the january 6th investigation, what can trump be charged with, who can be charged with what? but there is also an ongoing insurgency and we have to do everything we can to expose it, to expose the violence, to

isolate trump as a violent leader so that really, as ron said, you're sort of lowering the ceiling. i mean, in other words, you have to isolate this guy significantly in all sorts of ways and that includes isolating him as the leader 0 aas a viole organization. >> speaking of leaders, we learned the leader of the oath testify but he wants it to be in a public setting. you say hard pass, why? >> yeah, hard pass. nice try, stewart. a little late. and the -- first of all, you have to remember these guys are both violent and wannabes. they talk this tough game and part of the goal here is to just portray them as losers. i can't describe the extent to which what the january 6th committee is doing is sort of mirroring a counter insurgency campaign. you want to isolate these guys,

h humiliate them, show them to be losers. stewart rhodes says he has an ar-15 saying he's not going out alive, he's still alive begging for an audience. they're not doing to gi ve it t him pause they have what they need so stewart thinks he's still the big talker. he's not. they have seven guys from around him cooperating. he thinks he's essential. he's not essential. and how you e visarate the oath keepers and proud boys that remember from the first hearing they meet, we see from the documentary, they meet the night before on january 5th in the parking lot and remember, oath keepers are the security guards for roger stone and his people. so to the extent next week will be very interesting, aligning the violence with trump even

more so with -- >> yeah, that's going to be happening tuesday coming up. juliette, you yourself have been interviewed twice but the january 6th committee about your research on extremists groups and ensitincitement. i want to know what the committee was most interested in knowing from you? >> they were hard to read. as i wrote, it was staff. it was they're collecting information about how to think about events leading to january 6th and after. january 6th is a particular day. lots and lots of people testifying to that. i don't have evidence details 0en that. what is how did we get to january 6th? that's years and years of trump nurturing the violence. what i call sarcastic terrorism, which he's calling people to violence without any specifics.

getting much more specific after he loses the election. so he's focused on january 6th and then after january 6th, continuing to promote the lie and it's that narrative that they are very interested in the sort of how do you think about not just the legal case against donald trump, which is of course important but also the counter -- essentially the counter insurgency, counter violence case against him and that's what a lot of this information will disclose. i've been absolutely clear that the best -- that trump has to be isolated in every single way legally, financially, and isolated from the perception that he is on the winning team. the january 6th committee, if there is any success they've done, they've made trump appear to have peaked. right? pes his best days are over. you want to leave this ship. get off know. you're seeing that with the polling and the desantis rise is

consistent with the same find frame as january 6th. >> i'll be curious to think about going and looking at your insight and expertise, what the committee is doing was intentional orche strategic. fascinating. thank you, juliette. the question now is will key players on team trump pay a price for their loyalty? and which direction and whom will they pay? and just how worried should they be as the january 6th committee gathers more and more evidence and brings it to the public. pain hits fast. so get relief fast. only tylenol rapid release gels have laser drilled holes. they release medicine fast for fast pain n relief. and now get relief without a pipill with tylenol dissolve packs. relief without the water.

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from the former president's inner circle to the supporters that swarmed the capitol on january 6th. team players are paying a price for loyalty anded adherence toe evidence. how worried are these allies tonight? joining me now is charlie dent and scott jennings. i'm glad to see you both here. charlie, let me begin with you. look at this. john eastman, a scholar, a professor who clerked for a supreme court justice, justice clarence thomas being relieved of his phone by federal agents. you got jeffrey clark who is a top doj official standing there being served with a search warrant in his boxers. both of these men's reputations are undoubtedly in jeopardy. they have to have mounting legal bills at this point. i don't want to count someone else's money for them. how much trouble can they count being in?

>> it seems to me, laura, they're in boat loads of trouble. not that there is legal exposure but the reputational damage is significant but this is true for so many people who have gone to work for donald trump. many of them were aware of the risks going in but they work for him anyway and that was always the thing that stunned me, there are so many people who were pretty bright, rudy giuliani another one with all sorts of exposures. all these people are bright but still asked to do things that crossed lines that they knew shouldn't be crossed but crossed them anyway for the man that should be discredited and disgraced. there is reputational damage. there is legal exposure. the fake electors for example. all these people who sign their names on as fake electors. they have legal exposure. i mean, there is an endless list. michael cohen, we can go back a

long way. all these people that got close to donald trump. you can't just sometimes wash the stink off and sometimes that's what is happening with these folks. >> scott, some of the names that were already said, these are names we've seen in the georgia criminal case that's probing trump's efforts to overturn the election. seven trump allies were subpoenaed earlier this week and one of them, you see there on the top, is lindsey graham. he is a sitting united states senator. you've got of course, er man's lawyer. lindsey graham, speaking of reputation and somebody that's currently in office and has had frankly a lot of discussionsrapk and forth with donald trump, what is it like for him right now in terms of is he paying a pretty high reputational price right now? >> in the state of south carolina, i mean, i don't think so. he just got reelected and the people of south carolina were

strong supporters of donald trump. so i guess it depends on what ve venue. i'm sure he's fine. nobody has alleged lindsey graham has done anything wrong. to put him in the same list ooze eastman and other people is a totally different manner. is there any question that he was close to donald trump, no? but as a u.s. senator from south carolina and a member of the president's party, i would expect him to try to be close to the president for, you know, for obvious positive reasons. for some of the people with staff positions and appointed to things, it's different than a politician so for what it's worth. >> for the record, the list that we're talking about is a subpoena list. fulton county d.a. about these issues and of course, talking about what somebody knows in connection with what they're investigating so to be in that company i agree. the notion of being in the company is problematic for the reasons articulated because of the idea reputational harm on

others, as well. there is the former chief of staff mark meadows. really, one of the images that has come out about him since at least gas cassidy hutchinson's testimony is an image of him scrolling through text messages unwilling for whatever reason to confront trump as the capitol is being attacked and i always wonder, what is the future for him in politics? i mean, this is somebody who had quite a long career in politics. is that done? >> well, i'll never say he's done. he's from north carolina. he represented a very conservative district. but clearly, he has been significantly damaged by not doing enough to stop the president or to get the president to do the right thing on that day and almost taking a hands off approach. we don't want to bother him. he's laid up his mind approach to what happened on that day. so i guess, i'd say he's clearly

going to incur legal bills and there is reputational damage and remember, mark meadows isn't just dealing with this stuff. he's dealing with the issue of voting when he voted from north carolina that many people questioned was not his actual residence. so i think in many respects, mark meadows does come out of this very damaged. i don't see a warrant around it. this is the case if too many people that work in that administration they just are trying to get their reputations and lives back in order after this very difficult and traumatic experience that they had to endure for significant amount of time. >> scott, one person who was part of the administration was the former cont er acting chieff nick mulvaney. listen. >> mark seems to have gone through a very dark period. he was apparently according to cassidy detached from the job. i picked up on things in

cassidy's testimony that really frightened me the way the west wing was running. it wasn't running. it was anarchy and chaos and a clown show. there are protections in place to make sure things like january 6th don't happen and that system fell apart under mark's watch. >> how does this impact, scott, the way people might be viewing the west wing and of course, the institution of the presidency at all? >> well, when you take these jobs in a white house, the only thing you can do is your best and the only thing you can do is uphold your oath of office, that i support, protect and defend the constitution? was i honest? we'll see what mark meadows can say when the hearings are over with. that's the bottom line. you take an oath when you work in that building just like the president does. >> we'll see how it pans out and we'll see as well. gentlemen, thank you. we'll be right back after a quick break here on air.

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june marking a hot month for the job market. the economy adding 372,000 jobs last month and the unemployment rate held steady at 3.6%. president biden toting the very strong numbers earlier today while also acknowledging the on going challenges of inflation. >> i know times are tough. prices are too high. families are facing the cost of living crunch. but today's economic news confirms the fact that my economic plan is moving this country in a better direction. >> well, joining me now senior advisor to the president and american rescue plan coordinator

gene. good to see you. the numbers are out, the economy adding more jobs than expected to have added and unemployment is holding steady but there is always a but, inflation is still at a 40-year high. how is the white house evaluating the latest data and how do you want the american public to perceive it? >> i think that people should know that we understand that the global inflation that is affecting the whole world right now due to the startup and the shutting down and startup of the global economy related to the pandemic, related to the war in ukraine, we understand that is hitting americans at home and that's not comfort to you going through the gas line or grocery line, but it is important to recognize that the american

rescue plan has led to a strong job market and labor market with millions of people coming back to work. a couple really important milestones, we're now 140,000 jobs stronger in the private sector than we were before the pandemic. same with manufacturing. we have more manufacturing jobs than before the pandemic. think about that. remember that millions and millions of jobs, the 20 million people on unemployment line and the fact that due to the american rescue plan, we're already having a stronger job market, more people working, more people in manufacturing than before the pandemic. i think what this shows is that a lot of resilience in this economy and it doesn't down play the difficulties with inflation and it doesn't down play the difficulties people face -- >> excuse me, if i can, on that

note -- >> that doesn't -- >> excuse me, gene. i agree. and i know the reason probably that you are inclined to ensure that people know you're not being dismissive and obviously the numbers are not dismisst sieve are the idea of how people feel. the economy is intertwined how people view it. we hear the job numbers and the numbers are strong. that's true. they're the kind of numbers that administrations frankly crave but the polls, gene, also show that americans are not happy with the president's handling of the economy and i'm wondering from your prospective, why do you think in spite of all that you've discussed, why do you think it isn't playing to the president's benefit? why do you think people are looking at the numbers saying look, it's not hitting me and that might be what matters. >> i think there is no question when gas prices are rising and people are facing 3 bucks for a

dozen eggs, they're feeling that every day and yes, they're probably grateful that we have a strong job market that unemployment is low, that their wages are rising but people don't want to give that back due to higher prices and we understand that. and we're trying to do everything. gas prices are down 28, 29 cents since the peak. the president is calling for a holiday of state and federal gas prices that would probably bring it down another 50 cents. we're seeing two, 3,000 gas stations going under $4. the president is doing everything he can and started when he did the major release from the strategic petroleum reserve. there is no silver bullet. the reason it's important to give the message that i just did is of course, people are the best experts in the world how they feel, what the pain of

higher prices is but people should know that this economy and the jobs being created and the unemployment rate are not signs of an economy that is in decline. they are in a sign of the economy that has resilience and making a transition from the record job growth to what we hope will be more stable balance growth that won't give up gains we've seen in the job market over the last year. >> that context is extremely important. i mean, the idea people really fully understand the full land scrape scrape of it. i age myself every time when i remember what my '99 pontiac sun fire cost me to fill up. now it's totally different. before it passed, you had economists like larry summers warning biden to slow down on stimulus saying it could unleash pretty serious inflation and given what we know now, and looking back, i know hindsight

is well, 20/20, should the white house have listened? >> i think the overwhelming economic minute consensus, the reason there is global inflation is due to the supply constraints that were due to the pandemic and then now the war in ukraine. you know, i think that was the overwhelming economic view. i mean, just think about this from a common sense point of view. the oecd is a confusing acronym, the 38 top countries in the world. their average inflation rate is 9.6%. nobody can possibly suggest that the fact that they might think the american rescue plan was a little too large in march is why there is 9.6% inflation globally. >> the numbers do speak for themselves but all of the numbers collectively give a fuller picture. gene, thank you so much.

>> thanks, laura. thanks for having us. the whole country split after the supreme court overturns roe v. wade so what happens in a purple state? well, in virginia their pro-life republican governor is having a tough time pleasing everyone. the unknown is not empty. it's a storm that crashes, and consumes, replacing thought with worry.. but one thing can calm uncertainty. an answer. uncovered through exploration, teamwork, and innovation. an answer that leads to even more answers. mayo clinic. you know where to go.

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president biden blasting the supreme court's abortion ruling and signing an executive order aimed at protecting women's health. abortion rights activists demanding action since the overturning of roe v. wade. as gop led states across the country quickly move to restrict abortion access. but virginia's recently elected republican governor is trying to carry out a kind of balancing act in a state, well, that's divided right down the middle. here is cnn's jeff zeleny. >> so help me god. >> reporter: as glenn youngkin took office as the country's newest republican governor, his virginia victory was hailed as a road map for the party's success. >> first, i am pro-life. >> reporter: he opposed abortion rights but rarely emphasized it focussing instead on economic and education issues. when the supreme court overturned roe v. wade, most republican governors moved swiftly to ban or restrict abortions but in virginia,

youngkin is taking a slower more measured approach. >> i'm a pro-life governor and i will sign a bill that comes to my desk that protects life and i look forward to that. >> reporter: the governor support as law seeking to ban abortions after 15 weeks of pregnancy. with exceptions for rape, incest and the life of the mother as he tries to ban opponents with the political reality of democrats controlling the state senate by one vote. >> all eyes are on virginia. i think we're the epicenter for the initial decisions that will be made on a lot of pro-life legislation. >> reporter: senator amanda chase who challenged youngkin in the republican primary last year, said she was prefer a bill that goes even further. but she knows that is unlikely to find success so she supports the governor's plan. >> so even the 15-week bill has an uphill -- >> i think it has an uphill battle honestly in the virginia senate because of the makeup of the virginia senate 19-21, 19

republicans, 21 democrats. >> reporter: as legal challenges unfold in states across the nation, the political debate in virginia is taking shape with the closely divided battle ground. >> well, certainly, it's taken us decades to get where we are in this moment, to get past the decision of roe is to think that tomorrow we could ban all abortion would be unrealistic, but, i understand the sentiment. >> reporter: victoria cobb is president of the family foundation of virginia, a lobbying group that opposes abortion. she's calling for a patient bag pragmatic. >> you do what you can rather than put out what you believe and what you want to have happen, you put out what you can actually accomplish. >> reporter: youngkin insists common ground can be found. >> i believe this is a moment where the commonwealth of virginia can come together. >> reporter: that's not how democratic senate leaders luiz lucas sees it. >> the bill is dead on arrival. >> reporter: any abortion bill

must pass through the education and health committee of which she is the chair and decides what is or is not considered by the full senate. >> i will not agree to anything less than what is codified and code in virginia now and that is for 20 weeks, so if the governor is trying to push a 15-week ban, it's not going to get through my committee, i can guarantee you that. >> reporter: you can block this. you have the power as the chair? >> i do. >> reporter: senator lucas tells me she'll did everything in her power to make sure virginia in her words remains a safe haven for access to abortion. republicans and governor youngkin are starting with the 15-week ban and some are urging it to go much further. this means virginia will be one of several test cases in the country as the u.s. literally becomes a state by state patch work of abortion laws. laura? >> jeff, thank you. we'll be right back.

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america taxi? >> you can teach it without having an opinion. >> it's totally manipulation and manufacturing a crises. >> who is manufacturing it? >> the democrats. we need to teach children to compete. >> we should teach better american history here. >> yes. >> slavery, genocide of native americans, not that stuff? >> not the whole thing. joining us now, the host of united states of america and he is also the co-author of a new book, eight antiracist activity

book coming out july 19. i don't know how you do it. i can tell you that i was drinking throughout the entire preview thinking wow. we just heard some of the conversation. how do you, i guess you grind your teeth at night, that's how you do it. >> i go to therapy once a week. my wife rubs my back sometimes when i am stressed. you know, being black in america is also, it's a threat to your mental health and how to take care of yourself especially if you are like me and you and you can't talk to the people in here all these things. >> you are like 10 feet tall so you at least have a little bit of a distance from people. i can tell you, listening to this there is a real difference you have been seeing and you've been talking about this. i love your show so much. i love you doing it because you go and talk about knowing what the terms mean like actually

mean versus what they hear and think that they mean. you go right in there. >> i think a big part of the show is making people's conversations smarter and more informed. whether or not you agree with the outcomes, i think it's really about if somebody says critical race theory at a party maybe now you have watched my show you will actually be able to do find it until believing but somebody in the media told you who doesn't want you to know what it is. >> what else are you talking about this season? >> as you mentioned, we have an episode about the land back movement and also wire tires in california, my home state, which affects me personally. we also have an episode about covid times about people who moved to hawaii because a lot of time mainland americans treat hawaii as a undiscovered country and we have to talk about how people in hawaii feel about that. >> i can't wait to see it.

and that cross connection will be even better. i love lisa ling as well. be sure everyone to tune into the all new season of united states of america with the fabulous w. kamau bell. it premieres sunday at 10:00 p.m. p.m. and it's only we will be right back. so you only papay for what you need. woah! look out! [sfx: submarine risising out of water ] [ sfx: minion spits bobber ] minions are bitin' today. [ sfx: submarine hatch closes, submarine dives ] ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ hello! minions: the rise of gru, only in theaters. hey! lemons. lemons, lemons, lemons. look how nice they are. the moment you become an expedia member, you can instantly start saving on your travels.

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(woman) ughh. ohh... (dad) no! ohhhhhh. (man) ugh, ugh, gaaahh. (woman) n, n, n, n... uggggg... (vo) don't worry. you may feel every ding, but your subaru's value won't. the subaru outback has the best resale value in its class. (man) check please. as inflation sends grocery prices higher families are struggling to afford adequate food. research finds food and security impacts nearly 40 million households in this country. this week cnn hero wants people to know that homegrown and healthy are possible even in

dense, urban areas and food deserts. bobby wilson is using his savings to support those in underserved communities. he teaches and feeds people toward better lives. >> we have turned five acres of land right here in the heart of the city into a green oasis. it has really impacted the quality of life of people that lived around here and visit with us. most of the people in this neighborhood don't have access to fruits and vegetables that they can readily get. mangoes. i have to make sure that marginalized and underserved communities have access to locally grown food that is free of chemicals. we are more than just we are

abouju diversity, and inclusion. we are changing the dynamic of the way people think about food, the we the way people use food and this work is changing people's lives. >> we will see the full story of how badly -- and also helping black farmers as cnn heroes.com. and, nominate someone you think is deserving while you were there. thanks for watching. our coverage continues. good evening, heading into two televised hearings, the january 6th committee wrapped up a highly anticipated significant day. for more than seven hours starting this morning -- set for the paddle and it was useful. >> i will