tape recording device. you are here to tell us about your perspective, not just the credibility of other testimony, that might be the focus and the source telling cnn that the committee was focused on the perspective, not just the system saying, and i quote, mr. cipollone provided a great deal of new information relevant to the investigation that further underscores president trump's supreme dereliction of duty. a lot of focus on credibility, that is a huge component, right? >> is that for me? >> yes. >> yes. it is. i don't mean to step on you. it is a huge component. it is interesting. a couple little things, they are playing it kind of cute because they will have the hearing next week. i expect that, in fact, they have real combustible stuff that is going to break big when they do it and she is being kind of coy about it.

i think you can expect some fairly big bombshells. >> let's bring you in here ron, you are not meant to be coy, i know you are not. a straight shooter. cipollone defended trump in the first impeachment hearing, the fact that he is from trump's inner circle, he was not like chomping at the bit to testify. he was not witness number one he is just coming in. how important is it that this is the first, this is the guy that is coming to testify now? how important is this to the overall committee's ability to make the case to the american electorite. >> i am not a lawyer but as a journalist you go to the sources on the outside, you get information and you go closer and closer to the

central. given the accounts that we heard in cipollone's presence at so many critical moments, the attempt to replace the leadership of the justice department, he is there. the conversation with mark meadows on jan 6 where mark meadows through hutchinson's testimony says he does not think he is doing anything wrong, he is there. he is -- we are talking about adding new information that will be significant but just confirming some of the things that already have been said that put him in the room. i think i just have enormous political consequences. is it going to crater trump support? no information that will do it. is it lowering the ceiling on the number of americans that can trust him with the power of precedency again. i think it will. >> maybe raising the fatigue

factor as well. i want to listen as what kinds of things and how often we have heard his name in all of these conversations, listen to this. >> and i remember pat saying to him, something to the fact of, the rioters have gotten to the capitol, mark, we need to go down and see the president, now. mark looked up and said, he does not want to do anything, pat. i remember pat saying something to the effect of, mark, we need to do something more. they are literally calling for the vice president being hung and mark said something to the effect, you heard him pat, he thinks mike deserves it, he does not think they are doing anything wrong. >> it happened on january 6 as the riot was under way. if he verified that you could check off the list in terms of whatever sort of noncriminal prosecution elements you have, you know, in the congressional-related discussions of him refusing to

stop the riot even as people are telling him, the voice president of the united states, the number two person in the line of succession this is the person they are building gallows for. what are the legal implications one, that this was stated and hutchinson may of heard it. but also this would have been something that they tried as an exercise of fertility is seems to prevent. >> yeah, and by the way it is really interesting. i don't think people caught on to this. hutchinson, 25-year-old kid in the white house so sort of powerless does cipollone feel that he is going to her, not meadows because meadows will not listen to him. meadows shut him down at that point. but, there are half a dozen episodes. we will add to that the january 3rd meeting where cipollone says

this is a murder-suicide pack about the doj letter. even if he does not say private conversations with trump he gives a lot. he only took six breaks today to talk to his counsel. all in all i think he was pretty responsive and as you say, the things he can cooberate just for starters are really, really big. just thinking of mark meadows as you raised the point about the conversation, i remember thinking he seemed like a defeated person when hutchinson was describing, ejected in many respects, he was looking at his phone, she kept describing it. i wonder that central feeling can be descriptive of how the republican party feels about the power of donald trump overall in the sense of what are you going to do? you just said yourself will it impact the voters? crater the base in some way. something that people are not

seeing? >> that is interesting. i guess i did not read the feeling as that, i felt of him as a willing participant from everything that she was saying. someone that was enabling the worst instincts, not functioning in the way a chief of staff should in protecting a president from their worst instincts. look, that bite that you played. that may not be the most significant legally in terms of legal exposure on fake elector scheme but for voters that may still be the easiest question to grasp about all of this in terms of their assessment of donald trump and his suitability to be president. at the moment the rioters were going through the capitol, trying to hang the voice president and potentially kill or maim other elected officials he did nothing and told, the chief of staff told the white house counsel that he did not

want to do anything because he did not think they were doing anything wrong. if cipollone confirms that that is a political consequence. >> can not wait to see whatever comes from that interview. wouldn't it be great if we had one from mark meadows to describe how were you feeling that day, mark? maybe dejected? you are saying something different. how about you clarify it. i don't know. just asking for a friend. thank you, gentleman, appreciate it. >> 30 million friends. i want to turn now to cnn national security analyst and former homeland security official. also the author of "the devil never sleeps" good to see you tonight as well. just tonight you heard the doj giving new details about the extensive planning by the oath

keepers for violent, including militia-style and detailing firearms and explosives that were seized after the insurrection, how alarmed are you by these new details? >> >> it is alarming but something hopeful about it. that is, that is it is challenging the narrative that has been pushed that january 6 was just a get together that got out of hand. the extent there was planning and qrs, quick reaction sources, they were waiting for a signal from trump, they were armed and around in d.c. these are explosive devices found in their homes including grenades. and how do we know this? we know this because people have to remember the oath keepers are, you know, charged for sedition but seven of them are

cooperating with the united states government and three have pled guilty. they now have the deal and they are talking. so, the group is now fractured, which is good. this is what you want to do with a violent organization and some of them are now talking. that is how the information is coming out. i think, there is a second piece to this that will play out next week. ron picked up on it as well. there are the legal issues, what can trump be charged with, who can be charged with what, but there is san ongoing insurgency. and we have to do everything that we can to expose it, to expose the violence, to isolate trump as a violent leader so that, really, as ron said you are lowering the ceiling. in other words you got to isolate this guy significantly in all sorts of ways and that includes isolating him as a leader of a violent organization. >> speaking of leaders, we learned today

that the leader of the oath keepers, stewart rhodes, he wants to testify before the committee and he wants to wave his rights but he wants to do it on tv you say hard pass, why? >> first of all you have to remember these guys are violent and wanna-bees they talk this tough game. part of the goal here is to portray them as losers. i can not describe the extent of which what the january 6th commit sedoing is mirroring a counterinsurgence, isolate them, show them as losers, he says he has an ar- 15. i am not going out alive and now here he is now, begging, he is still alive, he is begging for an audience. they will not give it to him because they already have what they need. he thinks he is still the big talker.

he is not. they have seven guys who are around him cooperating. he thinks he is essential. he is not essential. how you verserate groups like the oath keepers and proud boys who remember from the first hearing they meet, you see it from the documentary. they meet the night before, january 5th in that parking lot and remember oath keepers are the security guards. to the next step, aligning the violence with trump even more so with it. >> it will be happening on tuesday. >> yes. >> tuesday. >> you, yourself, have been interviewed twice by the january 6th committee about your research on extremist groups and what are you able to tell us about those conversations that you have had. i am most interest inside

knowing what the committee was most interest inside knowing from you. >> right. they were hard to read. i want to be very clear. it was staff. it was collecting information about how to think about what was leading to january 6th and after. january 6 is a particular day, lots and lots of people are testifying to that. i don't have any new details on that. but what it is how did we get to january 6 and that is years and years of trump nurturing the violence, he is calling people to violence without any specifics. getting much more specific after he loses the election, focused on january 6 and then after, continuing to promote the lie. it is that narrative that they are very interested in sort of how do you think about not just the legal case against donald trump which is,

of course important, but also the counterinsurgency, the counterviolence case against him. that is what it will disclose. i have been absolutely clear that trump has to be isolated in every single way. legally, financially, and isolated from the perception that he is on the winning team. the january 6 committee i think, if there is any success they have done they made trump appear to have peaked, right? his best days are over, you all want to leave the ship, get off now. i think you are seeing that with the polling and even the desantos rise is consistent with the same time frame as january 6th. >> i am curious. your insight and your expertise what the committee is doing was it intentional or strategic. talking about it, curious and

fascinating, thank you. the question now is, will key players on team trump pay a price for their loyalty? and which direction and to whom will they pay? and how worried should they be as the january 6 committee gathers more and more evidence and brings it to the public? no matter what, we go on. biofreeze.

from the former president's inner circle to his supporter who's stormed the capitol on january 6th. key players on team trump are paying a price for their loyalty and the lies that he has said. as evidence mounts in the investigation just how worried are these allies tonight? joining me now cnn commentators. i am glad to see you both here. charlie, let me begin with you. look at this. john eastman, a scholar, professor, clerked for a supreme court justice, justice thomas, relieved of his phone by federal agents, you have jeffrey clark, a top doj official standing there being served with a search warrant in his boxers. both of these men's reputations are in jeopardy. they got to have mounting legal bills at there point. i don't want to count someone else's money for them. how much trouble can they count on being in?

>> it seems to me they are in boat loads of trouble. not just legal but reputation damage it is significant. this is true for so many people who have gone to work for donald trump. many of them were aware of the risks going in. they worked for him any way. that was always the thing. stunned me, there were people bright, rudy giuliani, all sorts of exposures, all of these people were bright yet they still were asked to do things that crossed lines that they knew they should not be crossed. they crossed them any way. just, just to stay in the good graces of the man who has been discredited and disgraced. yes, relationshiptational damage, legal exposure. all of the fake electors for example. all of the people who sign their names on the fake electors they have legal exposure. michael cohen go back a long

way. sometimes you just can not wash the stink off and that is what is happening with many of these folks. >> scott i want to go to you, some of the names already said, these are names in the georgia criminal case that is probing trump's efforts to overturn the election. allies were subpoenaed earlier this week. one of them you see there on the top is lindsay graham, a sitting united states senator. of course, the man known as america's mayor in eastman and others. but, graham, speaking of reputation, speaking of someone who is currently in office and has had frankly a lot of discussions surrounding his repore and back and forth with donald trump. what is it like for him right now do you think in terms of is he paying a high reputational price right now? >> in the state of south carolina, i don't think so. he just got reelected and obviously the people of south carolina were

strong supporters of donald trump. i guess it depends what venue. reputational matter among his constituents i am sure he is fine. no one alleged he has done wrong. to put him in the same list i think, i think that is a totally different matter. is there any question he was close to donald trump? no, but as a u.s. senator and a member of the president's party i would expect him to be close to the president for obvious policy reasons. i think for some of the people with staff positions, people that were appointed to things it is different than a politician for what it is worth. >> well, just for the record the list we are talking about is a subpoena list from, you know, the da about these issues and talking about what somebody knows in connection to what they are investigating, to be in that company, i agree. the in addition of being within that company is a problem for the reasons articulated because of the idea of

reputational harm on others as well. charlie, there is the former chief of staff, mark meadows who was a respective conservative before trump. really, one effort images that have come out about him since at least cassidy hutchinson's testimony, him scrolling through text messages and unwilling, for whatever happen, to address trump. what is the future for him in politics? he had a long career in politics. is that done? >> i will never say he is done. he is from north carolina he represented a conservative district. he has been damaged by not doing enough to stop the president or to get the president to do the right thing on that day. almost taking a hands off approach. we don't want to bother him, he has made up his mind approach to what happened on that day.

i guess i would say he will clearly have legal bills and there is reputational damage. remember, meadows is not just dealing with this stuff but the issue of voting when he voted from a residence north carolina that many question was not his actual residence. in many respects i think meadows comes out damaged. i don't see another way around it. sadly this is the case for too many people that work inside that administration, trying to get their reputations and lives back in order after this traumatic experience they had to endure for a significant amount of time. >> scott, one person who was part of the administration, weighing in as i know you know on mark meadows time as chief of staff after that testimony last week. listen to this. >> mark has gone through a dark period. detached from the job. i picked up on things from

cassidy's testimony how the west wing was running, it was not running. there are protections in place to make sure it does not happen and that system fell apart under mark's watch. >> when you take these jobs in the white house the only thing you can do is your best and the only thing you can do is uphold your oath of office. support and defend the constitution, was i honest? did i give the president the best and most honest advise i could. we will see if he can say those things, i think the jury is out on that. that is the bottom line. you take an oath when you work in that building just like the president does. >> we will see how it pans out and what we will see as well. gentleman, thank you, we'll be right back. after a quick break here on air . let's end this habit. skip the rinse...

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june marking a hot month for the job market. the economy adding 372,000 jobs last month. the unemployment rate held steady at 3.6%. president biden tauting the numbers today and acknowledging the challenges of inflation. >> i know times are tough. prices are too high. families are facing the cost of living crunch. today's economic news confirms the fact that my economic plan is moving this country in a better direction. >> joining me now, senior advisory to the president and american rescue plan coordinator. good to see you on this friday evening and when the numbers are out. the economy adding more jobs than expected. unemployment is holding steady. but, always a but, inflation is still at a 40 year high. w is the white house evaluating

the latest data and how do you want the american public to perceive it? >> i think that people should know that we understand that the global inflation that is effecting the whole world right now due to the start up and shutting down and start up of the global economy, related to the pandemic, the war in ukraine. that is hitting americans at home. the fact that it is happening everywhere is not much comfort to you as you are going through the gas line or the grocery line. but it is important to recognize that the american rescue plan has led to a very strong job market, a strong labor market with, you know, millions of people coming back to work. you know, a couple of really important milestones. we are now 140,000 jobs stronger in the private sector than we were

before the pandemic. same with manufacturing. we now have more manufacturing jobs than before the pandemic. i mean, think about that. remember, millions and millions of jobs, the 20 million people on unemployment line. the fact that, due to the american rescue plan we are already having a stronger job market, more people working, more people manufacturing than before the pandemic. you know, i think what this shows is that there is a lot of resilience in this economy and does not downplay the difficulties with inflation. it does not downplay the challenges people face but when you are having one million jobs created -- >> if i can on that note. excuse me. i agree. i agree and i know the reason why you are inclined to ensure people know you are not being dismissive and numbers are not dismissive is the

idea of how people feel. it is intertwined with how people view it. we hear the job numbers and the jobs are strong, that is true. they are the kind of numbers that administrations crave. but the polls, they also show americans are not happy with the president's handling of the economy. i am wondering from your perspective why do you think in spite of all that you discussed why is it not playing to the president's benefit? why are people looking at the numbers and saying look , it is not hitting me and that might be what matters? >> i think there is no question when gas prices are rising and people are facing $3 for a dozen of eggs, you know, they are feeling that every day. and you know, yes they are grateful we have a strong job market, unemployment is low, their wages are rising but people don't want to give that back due to higher prices. we understand that. we are trying to do everything

we can. you know, gas prices are down now about 28, 29 cents since the peak. the president is calling for holiday of both the federal and state gas taxes which would bring it down another 50 cents. we are seeing 2,000, 3,000 gas stations going under $4. the president is doing everything he can and started with the major release from the petroleum reserve, there is no silver bullet. i think, the reason i thinking it is important to give the message that i just did is that of course people are the best experts in the world as how they feel and what the pain of higher prices is. but people should know that this economy and the jobs that are being created and the unemployment rate are not signs of an economy that is in decline. they are signs of an economy that has resilience and making a transition from the record

job growth to what we hope will be more stable and balance growth with lower prices that will not give up plane of the gains we seen in the job market in the last year. >> that context is extremely important. the idea people fully understanding the full landscape of it. obviously i will not get started with gas prices i age all of the time when my '99 sunfire used to cost me to fill up. now it is totally different. you are the coordinator for biden's american rescue plan. even before it passed you had economists warning biden to slow down on stimulus and saying it could unleash serious inflation. and given what we know now and looking back and i know hindsight is, well, 20/20, should the white house have listened? >> i think that the overwhelming economic consenses is that the reason there is global inflation is due to the supply constraints that were

due to the pandemic and then now the war in ukraine. i think that was the overall economic view. just think about it from a common sense point of view, the 38 top countries in the world their average inflation rate is 9.6%. nobody could possibly suggest that the fact that they might think the american rescue plan was a little too large in march is why there is 9.6% globally. >> all of the numbers give a fuller picture. gene, thank you very much. >> thanks, laura. thanks for having us. the whole country is split as the supreme court overturns roe v. wade, what happens in a purple state? well, in virginia their pro- life governor is having a tough time pleasing

everyone.

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>> reporter: as he took office this year as the country's newest republican governor his virginia victory was hailed by the gop as a road map for the party's success. >> first i am pro-life. >> opposed abortion rights but rarely emphasized it. focusing on economic and education issues. when the supreme court overturned roe v. wade most republican governors across the country moved swiftly to ban or restrict abortions but in virginia he is taking a slower measured approach. >> i am a pro-life governor, i will sign a bill that comes to my desk that protects life. and i look forward to that. >> the governor supports a law seeking to ban abortions after 15 weeks with exceptions of rain, insist and the life of his mother and balances the demands of strict abortion rights and the reality of democrats controlling the state senate by one vote. >> all eyes will be on virginia. we are the epi-center for the decisions that will be made on a lot of

the pro-life legislation. >> she said she would prefer a bill that goes further but she knows it is unlikely to find success. she supports the governor's plan. >> even the 15 week bill you think it has an uphill? >> i think it has an uphill battle honestly in the virginia senate because of the make up of the virginia senate. 19-21, 19 republicans, 21 democrats. >> reporter: as legal challenges unfold in states across the nation, the political debate in virginia is taking shape with >> it has taken decades to get passed it. to think tomorrow we can ban all abortion is ridiculous. >> the family foundation of virginia, a lobbying group that opposes

abortion, she is calling for a patient pragmatism. >> you do not put what you believe you put out what you can actually accomplish. >> reporter: youngkin believes it can be common ground. >> i believe we can come together. >> reporter: that is not how they see it. >> the bill is dead on arrival. >> any abortion bill must pass through the committee for which she is the chair and decides what is or not seen by the full senate. >> i will not agree to what is less than codified right now. 20 weeks, if the governor is trying to push a 15 week ban it will not get through my committee i can guarantee you that. >> you can block it. you have the power as the chair. >> i do. >> senator says she will do

everything in her power for safe access to abortion, they are starting with that 15 week ban and some are urging it to go further. it means virginia will be one of several test cases in the country as the u.s. literally becomes a state by state patchwork of abortion laws. laura? >> jeff, thank you. >> we will be right back

asking a tough question about our country's most challenging issues in the season of united shades of america. takes us on a journey tackling critical race to the land back movement, here is a preview. right now it is about should we teach kids a more accurate history of america? >> race theory? >> what did you say?

>> race theory? >> you can teach it without having an opinion. >> is it okay if a teacher says i think slavery was bad? >> no. >> no. >> well? >> nazis is not good. >> nothing is bad. >> no. >> if the latter is how you heard it first i am not surprised you are confused that is why i grind my teeth when i sleep. >> it is manipulation and manufacturing pricing. >> who is manufacturing it? >> the democrats. >> we need to teach our children how to compete. >> we need to teach history america better here? >> no, no, no. not that stuff. >> well, not the whole thing. >> joining us now, the host of united shades of america. the co-author of the new book "do the work" antiracist activity book

coming out on july 19th. i don't know how you do it sometimes, i have to tell you. i was blinking throughout the preview, going hmm and you dive right in with the first episode tackling the meaning of "woke" and "critical race theory" we heard some of the conversation. how do you, i guess you grind your teeth at night that is how do you it? >> yes, i go to therapy once a week. my wife rubs my back sometimes when i am stressed. you know, being black in america it is also it is a threat to your mental health you have to take care of yourself when you are like me and you and talk to the people and hear all of the things. >> well, you are 10 feet tall, you at least have emotional distance at some point in time. i tell you, listening to this, there is a difference that you have been seeing, you have been talking about it, this is why i love your show so much. you go and talk about knowing what the terps mean, actually mean vs what they hear and think that they mean.

you go right in there. >> i think a big part of the show is making people's conversations smarter. i want you to agree with me because i have the best ideas and i have stolen them from friends of mine and activists and people smarter than me. if someone says critical race at a party you can define it instead of believing what somebody in the media told you. >> give us a sneak peek now, what else are you talking about this season? >> as you mentioned we have an episode about land back movement, wildfires in california, my home state that effects me personally. we have an episode about people in covid-19 times moving to or relocating to hawaii. a lot of time mainland is undiscovered country and talking about how the people in hawaii feel about that. one of my favorite is asian- americans in the spotlight. >> i can not wait to see it and

the cross connection will be better. i love lisa ling as well. everybody check it out. premieres sunday at 10:00 p.m. and only on cnn. we'll be right back.

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as inflation sends grocery prices higher, families across the country are struggling to afford adequate food. recent reports find food insecurity impacts 14 million households in this country. this week's cnn hero wants people to know home grown and healthy are possible even in dense urban areas and food deserts. bobby wilson is using his retirement and his savings to support those in underserved communities. teaching and feeding people

towards better lives. >> we have turned five acres of land right here in the heart of the city into a green oasis that really impacts the quality of life of people that live around here and visit with us. most of the people in this neighborhood don't have access to fruits and vegetables that they can redly get my goal is to make sure marginalized and under served communities have access to locally grown food that is free of chemicals. we are more than just a farm. we are about justice, equity, diversity and inclusion. we are changing the dynamics of the way people think about food, the way people use food,

this work is changing people's lives see the full story of how bobby is feeding families from his green oasis and helping black farmers as cnn heroes.com. and nominate someone you think is deserving while you are there. our coverage continues. welcome to all of you watching us here in the united states, canada and around the world. i'm kim brunhuber. ahead on "cnn newsroom." >> service to his country and his people was in his bone, even after he stenpped down from public office. >> tributes from around the world are pouring in for shinzo abe. plus, top ukrainian