somewhere tonight, albert einstein a. smiling storage on mars and cosmology cosmetology. to which is what i said before the break. and i'm sure there are the cosmetology who are are really excite about this as well but i

didn't set up in the last segment. people are nasa excited and people -- when you build the first images from the times of space telescope. those are likely some of the first galaxies form in the universe booms of years ago. when you see, by the way, from a spike of sky. as small as a grain of said held at arms length. my mind is exploding. and the blurring and stretching you see in from the galleries, that is actually their light being spent by all the massive galaxies between them and us. gravitational lunging, key prediction of hindsight theory of general relativity. something to make even einstein smile. and have to do more research do that in. then use continues with laura coats and cnn tonight. >> we're talking behind. thank you already above. me thanks anderson. i appreciated. i know e=mc2. that's ball can get through today. but i am laura coats, this is cnn tonight. so steve bannon, he threw down the conflict after being indicted on criminal contempt charges back in november. remember this?

for defying a january six committee subpoena. he threatened to raise holy. >> this is gonna be the misdemeanor from -- for merrick garland, nancy pelosi, and joe biden. i'm never gonna -- late gone wrong at this time. >> well that's what makes the onetime trump white house adviser who now, quote, extra confounded. because it once. ago bannon said that he wasn't backing down. ever. the wrong side this time. well, trial dates have a funny way of making people change their minds. shall we say. because now he is, well, backing down. willing to testify before that very committee that he simply walking and talking. now, what exactly changed other than maybe the calendar date? we didn't think a lot of the print all. that along with new january six

hearing developments. and bannon thought his decision to testify, now, would call someone's bluff the doj. well he's so the. mistaking a trial, it's still happening. and it won't even be postponed. a federal judge denied his legal team's requests to delay his trial today. and would get as planned one week from today. the doj made clear the charges weren't being filed to try to persuade him to testify someday in the future. no, the contempt was to punish him for failing to testify in the past. and saying, quote, this is a little more than an attempt to change the optics of his contempt on the eve of trial. and eva's right. if it's our six monday. and remember, think back to the very reason he gave for not testifying in the first place. biden claims that former president trump had muzzled him really by asserting executive privilege. well now, trump put out a letter waving that privilege to clear the way for his longtime ally to testify.

of course, it's not actually clear whether the most ever any possible privilege to begin with. let alone one that would give statements some core of carte blanche to commute. but as i say, wait, there is more. and another related twist. the doj says the fbi interviewed this guy. former trump lawyer, justin clark. just weeks ago. and this man confirmed that trump never invoked executive privilege over anything that related to steve bannon. so. the trump than wave what he never asserted? what they got out of just a moment. meanwhile, it is the eve of another potentially consequential hearing for trump world. the house select committee would seek direct tie far-right extremists, including groups like the oath keepers, like the proud boys whose members were charged with seditious conspiracy to donald trump of course is associates. according to the committee eight, the panel will be zooming in on a long time trump

loyalists, roger stone and michael flynn. now we know already, the oath keepers, they've given security for roger stone's events. and he has denied, as we've said, knowing any of the plants stormed the capitol. a former oath keepers spokesman is now going to testify, we are told, as maybe a key witness tomorrow. prosecutors say that some oath keepers members actually brought explosives to the d.c. area around january 6th and had a, quote, death list. and this committee says it's going to really hone in on just how this violent mob came together. in their body of evidence so to speak, members are going to say they will lay out how donald trump's tweet, as the president the united states back on december 19th of 2020 that the be there, be wild tweet. that was called some sort of a siren call to the mob. it acts became a catalyst for the violence that we then saw. in fact, listen to member jamie

raskin, on how he defines it. the first time in american history when the president united states called a protest against his own government. in fact, to try to stop the counting of electoral college votes in a presidential election he had lost. >> so, could the trump white house con so pats bonus testing that we don't happen last friday, is that gonna collect some of these dots for us? i mean, he was at the reportedly heated meeting in the oval office that lead and had a talk about seeding shouldn't voting machines. right before that tweet was sent out. the press with the testimony tells cnn that he was asked extensively about his role in that meeting and also what was discussed. and apparently we're going to see some snippets of his testimony and we've seen some in other hearings. well the committee is thought to play some of those testimonial moments in the

video tomorrow. now as for the steve bannon drama, shall we say, what turned to people with very valuable insight. cnn commentator, jonah globe berg. who knows the bennett and mark fischer. let's interview them several times and written extensively about banned its relationship with donald trump. he's a senior editor at the washington post. i'm glad that you're both here and i wanna begin with you because you don't know him very well. of course. but you've known him either before he was part of the administration for trump and i'm just wondering what you think steve bannon is doing? what this game is? is it a game? he wants to testify now, likely to be in public. surprise surprise, you don't have a platform and maybe a show. is it a show? is it a change of heart to you think? >> i think it's a. show i think people can try to turn this into some sort of complex mystery, with more theirs and steve bannon ensemble. or you like to wear a lot of

layers. remember he said his own philosophy about how to deal with political warfare. do the democrats. do the media. it is the flood zone with fecal matter. >> vice for, that was very nice, even a primetime. >> that is part of what he's doing. the real test, i would believe that he actually wants to cooperate with the committee and is to say are good faith way. for a spot if it was about to go on trial. but if he said that he was willing to hand over all of the documents had communications that the committee asked. that's messages, emails, all that. remember he was a deeply involved with a lot of decrypter networks that planned to stop the steal things from the beginning. that is not part of his offer. has offered to do a live testimony that will flood the zone with various batter that normally hits that. he wants to be the fan. and he wants to make a big feat. and the rest of it is all just nonsense. >> a party wants to see how much more times you can have the twitter not actually said. and i kind of keep going.

but i want to -- -- i'm looking for you now. but i wanna bring work into the conversation because mark. before the proverbial hits the fed. let's talk about that. the fact that the pandemic has not agreed, i don't think, to actually had already documents. but it was courteous to me is that he was really persona non grata to donald trump at one point. it was like they left with the bromance intact. and i'm wondering, is a part of this do you think by trump sort of putting out there waiving the privilege that he likely never actually had? sort of a financial nail in the coffin to say, no no, you and i we are not friends. >> wow, steve bannon and donald trump. they talk about gamesmanship the two of them have been going at each other for quite some years now and what's happening here is that bannon is a way for trump to kind of push back against generators committee. but bannon out there, knowing that he is there to disrupt things. biden has been very clear about

this from the start. he's not exactly how to use motives here. he talks about it on his podcast all the time. he wants to delegitimized the biden presidency that was his motive in supporting the generous fifth demonstration. and in saying that all will break loose. that day and so that's what he's doing now to. he wants to disrupt this january six investigative committee. that has been pretty successful and putting on a show of its own. and controlling its message and she has presented publicly very carefully curated hearings each day. he wants this to be his live performance where he can turn things upside down. but the gamesmanship goes both ways. and the committee, understands what he is up to. and they want the kind of control that they've asserted over every one of the hearings so far. where they interviewed people in advance for hours on end. and then only pick up the choice but to present the public. in fact, jonah for you, you

look at this issue in the same vein. on the one hand it is important to get the message out in the sense that here is what happened and what led up to it. but you've been pretty critical about the idea of how the actual production has been done. not in terms of the legitimacy or the logistics but in terms of not having this be the invitation for trump allies to speak more vocally about their fence. i wonder has that change overtime? giving the people of testified, largely are trump supporters and allies and part of the administration. >> my view on it is, i'm very sympathetic to the larger aims of the committee. which is to get a historical record out there. i think the idea of a criminal referral is deeply fraught. we don't need to get into that. but the reason the committee set up in such a way that it gives ample good faith and also a lot of bad faith, criticisms to its critics. it is one-sided. no one testifies to that committee and left the committee knows with the answers to the question are

already going to be. it is not typically how a normal congressional committee is organized. that is not entirely on the democrats as trump supporters want to claim. the republicans, they got their wish for, they want to delegitimized the. pick up the structure that they thought would work best for them. that hasn't worked out that way. so dials tell people is, look, jimmy raskin and bennie thompson they are partisan democrats. and as i talk to people conservatives and say, i don't care what they say. i don't care even with the questions i pay ask. i care about the fact that as you've alluded to they are virtually every witness except for two or three people has been not just a republican not just a conservative. but until basically january 6th, i die hard trump supporter these are people saying it and the only people who could rebooted are the ones pleading the fifth and refusing to cooperate. >> so mark, does that matter to you? the idea that it makes a bigger impact. that we don't get crumbly fought, jonah, but doesn't make

a difference to the audience? the consuming electorate? those home some of the committee wants to persuade, at least understand what happened. does make a difference who is the actual speaker? i mean, it is kind of the opposite, killing the messenger. it's kind of putting them in the front row >> i think it does make a difference, i think we are seeing some of the softening of the support for trump in the wake of this investigation. that there is a mentality, a developing among republicans. among trump supporters. that this was really very bad situation on january 6th that people are not telling the truth about it. on trump side. and that upstanding republicans are coming forward and blowing the whistle. that has been the clear consistent message of these hearings. but it does have to be said that there has not been the kind of back and forth, the kind of cross-examination, the kind of hostile witnesses that we generally see questionable

investigations of the sort. and if the public harkens back to not just the watergate hearings but many others to history. there is this expectation that there is going to be this kind of confrontation. and we haven't seen that. the makeup of the plate some of the drama that his what's someone expect from this kind of investigators. eric >> what can be general that perhaps january six is not the rorschach test may have to be? maybe the reason it has been this is because people's eyes actually saw what happened. but more on this later. thank you both. i appreciate it. >> now, once again, we see the subcommittee changing its herring schedule with little warning. the last limited so we had catches the hutchinson and she came and her testimony i think stunned so many people. there i say the. nation so what does this latest change in plans suggest about where the probe could be headed or where it is not? as we get new testament. that's next.

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a major five time for thursday. now, it's going to be next. week the delay will give investigators time to process the, quote, new and important information, unquote. they say the panel was getting it on a daily basis. the news, of course, comes amidst bannon's testify and after cipollone sat for seven hours and questioning on friday. part of cipollone's testimony is going to be her version tomorrow. elliott williams is here to talk about it. also, miles taylor. i'm glad you're still here. this guy still here. >> can't get rid of this. guy >> can't get rid of. them i'm just kidding. you're here. welcome. i'm glad you're here. let's move right on. i just ask you this question. look. the fact that we are moving the date, again.

forget the schedule. i'm not taking it personally. the moving at, again. this is not the first time we've had a hearing date be moved. does the same thing to you, in terms of -- the primetime event, he said, vision of this would happen. is it going to? >> here's a thing, you use the word, laura. primetime event. think about how often you see crime greszler hearings in primetime. they want to get it right. think about the fact, also, the last couple weeks we heard from pat cipollone and cassidy hutchinson's testimony came out of nowhere. but the most part. you know, people knew she was out there. at the end of the day, it was new, late breaking information. they want to get it right. look, i was definitely -- helping prepare witnesses for hearings. congress thinks about these things a great deal. i wouldn't read too much into it. they are thinking they might get a better product if they wait. >> better to get it perfect. professions enemy of progress, whatever the phrase is.

i don't know. >> some other. >> word who knows? >> i'm a tiny bit less charitable than elliott. just say that john and i were talking about it earlier. look, congressional committees are such a show. i'm just -- they've been really difficult. the committee is doing a great job, publicly bringing out it's very polished intelligence. behind the scenes, these things are fly by the seat of your pants, last minute. on top of that, elliott says this, it's prime time. there's a second most important factor that elliott alluded to. look at the end of the day, the most significant takeaway from these a list of that people are coming forward. a year to have after january 6th, the fact that new people are coming forward tells you many things. it also tells you that they are having that effect. not necessarily on sway the masses. not necessarily on having a huge impact on whether trump will run again. they're having an impact by scaring people. those people want to cover because they're worrying about with their hair. >> does it make them a martyr

though? take steve bannon. i hear your point. absolutely. jonah, if you're saying, hey, emily's testify. i want to do it publicly. and they shut you down, is the productive for this committee? for the same reasons? >> i think you can actually make the argument that, maybe. it's certainly gonna be talking point on the right. bannon, let him do his thing. there's a counterintuitive thing here. i completely understand and agree with you that when you say primetime event, you think, okay. it's like the oscars. they got it down to a tee. it's in a counterintuitive way the fact that they keep doing this now. it kind of lends itself to the drama of a reality show in the sense like, oh, my gosh. what's gonna happen next? trust in terms. it's unpredictable. the cassidy hutchinson thing made it seem like more of an unfolding event than in realtime. that probably keeps people's attention to this. remember, a lot of people were determined, a lot of people. tucker carlson refused to take

a commercial break for the first hearing thinking it didn't serve in attention whatsoever. now, a lot of people on the right are paying attention. some are hate watching it. some are mad. some are screaming at the tv. you know, like it's pro wrestling. but they're watching. i think this sort of zigzagging, you know, thing, it probably speaks to a lot of internal turmoil at the committee and a lot of the new facts coming out. it also keys peoples lives. >> can we take a minute to embrace the cleverness of steve bannon for a moment? >> no. >> no. >> but they put the committee in a position. number one, if they put him on in the live hearing, they're not going to want to. if they cut on a live hearing, he turns into a circus about the deep state and all kinds of conspiracy theories, someone. if they don't, he can claim, as john ahead, said now, they're silencing us and they're not letting me speak. this is just a one-sided kangaroo court from the beginning. so, it's under reality soar,

per se. but they have some gamesmanship here to win this back, or when it. >> you can't have it both ways. it strikes me. people are saying, listen, there's not just both sides represented. there's people willing to testify. and then, they say, hold on, it's not a criminal proceeding. you can't treat it as such. if there were a courtroom, i would agree. you would have to have a case, due process, elements of. it this is not that. can they have it both ways, miles, in the sense that they are not supposed to be a criminal proceeding and demanding the same core curmudgeon process and a robust defense? even, of course, they had their chance, mccarthy said, pull everyone out. leave justice to rhinos. >> when it comes to bannon, it comes to this, he had a shot. he should have come and spoken to the committee when he was subpoenaed to speak in front of the committee. he didn't respond to that subpoena. he is being prosecuted right now. to do the charmin thing, which

is which steve bannon is doing, it seems far too exploited of the process. it seems like he's trying to get tv time. besides, he has a set down with the committee. everyone we've seen testify, to my knowledge, has first met with the committee behind closed doors so that they could understand, cross examine them, compare that with other information. for bannon not to do that would be a mistake on the committees part and it wouldn't serve the public. i think, at a minimum, what they need to do is have a conversation with him behind closed doors and see what they find. again, we are in the buzzer shot period of the public hearings of this committee. so, it's disingenuous. >> it would have been a better gambit if it didn't coincide with desperately trying to delay his trial. >> the trial is on monday. the idea, not the 11th hour. it's looking to have, and by the way. i still wonder, is this trump essentially saying, you go ahead. is this his last screw you on this? >> it is a change of five that he's been charged with criminal contempt. >> first past behavior. >> first past behavior.

whether he shows up or not, that doesn't change the fact that, number one, he still has the documents. number two, didn't come in when they wanted to come in last time. it's all a ploy. i was teasing about the cleverness. think it's a sinister cleverness. at the end of the day, it's all stunned. >> we're all aware of sarcasm at this table. >> thank. you >> thank you so much. crazy enough to work. like, stick around guys. okay? enjoy cnn's drew griffin for new investigation into steve bannon and his plan to reshape the u.s. government and the republican party. cnn special report, steve bannon, divided we fall, it begins sunday on 8 pm eastern. coming up here with the select committee, trying to establish a connection between the extremists and the trump white house, leading up to january six. i'll be joined by former homeland security secretary. i wonder she thinks the government is doing enough to try and stop more bloodshed. we'll ask her, next.

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tomorrow the american public will learn more that about the role that right-wing extremist played in the january 6th attack. since that day the domestic terror threat has, frankly, on the ground. and a new watchdog report warns department of homeland security could, quote, do more to address the threat. and it, quote, may be able to proactively prevent and protect the nation unquote.

now, few people know the challenge is more than my next guest. she was a homeland security secretary joining the bomb administration. janet up all the time, welcome to the program. i'm glad to have you here particularly on a night like this. secretary, i have to ask, you, i remember in 2000 at the age is under you. it issued a report called white ring extremism. current economic and political resurgent fueling economic complete go recruit. that was 2000. i'd how things change to date? if it works in your mind? >> oh, it is worse. the threat of domestic extremism has grown. it is metastasize. if anything hits become more well organized. i think, the role of social media in this process can't be overestimated. it's an extraordinarily difficult problem. >> and that vein i think about

the idea. you see commercials for facebook meta talk about finder. people the idea of people being up to find one another. not to suggest that they're the reason for. this but the role of social media in particular. there are these private and encrypted chat rooms that are popping up all around. in fact, and rico tarrio who was the proud boys leader was communicating in an encrypted group but i'm wondering, what sort of threat that persist for dhs and trying to tap into it. is it overwhelming burden to try to figure out where to go next, then? >> it certainly is difficult. it requires an extraordinary amount of resources, intensive needs, to monitor what you can on social media. it also requires a really good coordination. with local law enforcement, for the community groups. people in the general citizenry. but everybody has a role to

play here. but these groups they've just grown in metastasize over the last decade. >> secretary, when i hear sometimes the phrase of everyone has a role to play. and given the idea that has to be that symbiotic relationship between local government, and of course federal. i wonder at times, is dhs i viewed prepared? is if it is a patchwork, state-by-state, about how and deals with the issue. it feels like a losing game. >> look, i'm not going to say it is easy. it is. not it is very very difficult. what dhs has to do his monitor as best they can hang coordinate as best they can. but we live in a big country. will lots of players and. the law enforcement realm. the community around. it is just very difficult. we started a campaign when i was secretary.

see something, say something. which was designed to get every citizen acculturated to the notion that everyone has able to play. here and the stakes are very high. these extremist groups, you know, we are trying to undermine our country. trying to undermine our democracy. that is what we saw on generally the sixth. so it is a very serious homeland security issue. >> secretary, part of me wonders of people taking that so literally and in different ways. to see something say something. because part of the extremist groups. they are very vocal about the things they believe. in so the idea of political division and they're saying things in a way that is either enticing others to join and act out their political dissent. and ways i think was not contemplated when people spoke about the freedom of speech and the first amendment and addressing grievances and trying to use the government is way and a vehicle to do people want for representation

purposes. do you wonder how to make and how dhs can navigate what really is a threat of a very typical needle? on the one hand people being proactive in speaking. out on the other hand holding them to account for when they go too far. >> right, that is one of the chief challenges. which is that freedom of speech is protected in our country. but acting out on that speech to commit acts of violence, to form conspiracies and the like. that is not protected by the first amendment. that is where judgment comes in. and judgment by the department. by the fbi. by others. who are charged with protecting security of our country. >> while secretary nepal the toronto, thank you i, speaking with. you >> you bet, thank. you >> look, the committee says it is planning to zero in tomorrow on kind of what we are talking about today. this one meeting that took

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the january six committee is

trying to draw straight line between the white house and violent extremism. to see how they might we have to go back to december 2020. that month began with bill barr saying publicly that there was no widespread fraud. the same-day, georgia republican gabe sterling issued this warning. >> someone's gonna get hurt. someone is going to get shot. someone's gonna get killed. >> well on the weeks that followed the stop the steal movement picked up steam. with rallies across the country, many of them turning violent. at one rally in particular, december length right here in d.c.. we now know that enrique tarrio was in the crowd. washington post reports that he met with longtime trump ally, roger stone. tarrio is the head of the proud boys and he's facing serious seditious conspiracy charges. all who install no reportedly meeting we know that another issue was coming up with some kind of a plan. stewart rhodes. founder of the oath keepers, is

also charged with that same thing. and that same day, he wrote his father who keepers and said that if joe biden became president it would be, quote, a bloody and desperate fight. we are going to fight. that can't be avoided. now, the next day tarrio posted a picture of himself at the white house. the administration would say that he was just there on a public tour. but we know within the executive branch, donald trump was open to more fringe ideas shall we say. on december 14th teammate with leadership and pushed extreme ideas like a pointing a special counsel and maybe even seizing voting machines. >> can you explain with the president did after he was told that they just department would not seize voting machines? >> the president is very agitated. >> while he would still be agitated days later. because when the doj would do

it, folks like sydney powell, and michael flynn, and rudy giuliani when the oval office. pushing many of the same ideas. >> one of the things that people are going to learn is the fundamental importance of meeting that took place in the white house. on december the 18th. and on that day the group of lawyers, about side layers, will be denominated team crazy by people in and around the white house. i but came in to try to get either -- seven new course of action. including the seizure of a voting machines. around the country. i >> white house counsel, pat cipollone, was in that meeting. he told the committee just how insane the meeting was. a few hours later donald trump was on twitter. calling for supporters to come to washington on january 6th and promising it would, quote,

be wild. i >> people are gonna hear the story of that tweet and then the explosive effects to had on trump world and specifically among the domestic violent extremist. groups the most dangerous political extremists in the country. >> and many of the same people who are in december 18th meeting. folks like michael flynn, rudy giuliani. they would also be at the so-called war room that is that the roller hotel in the days before january 6th. now you remember, trump chief of staff mark meadows, he wanted to be there with him. >> the summit has had a conversation with me. where he wanted to work with secret service on the move from the white house at the board hotel so we can attend meetings with mr. giuliani and his associates in the war room. >> also there, roger stone. the proud boys were his security for him.

apparently, on january 6th. then steve bannon, who famously offered this preview of january 6th. >> all heck will break loose tomorrow. just understand this. it will break loose tomorrow. >> i see a trend with the word. but so how important is this timeline and this testimony from the former oath keepers spokesman. we'll look at that a newly-revealed evidence including and alleged that lets that was kept by another oath keeper. on cnn tonight returns. [ sfx: submarine rising out of water ] minions are bitin' today. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ minions: the rise of gru, only in theaters. my mental health was much better. my mind was in a good place. but my body was telling a different story. i felt all people saw were my uncontrolled movements.

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that permanent solution. [ marcia ] clearchoice dental implants gave me the ability to take on the world. i feel so much better, and i think that that is the key. new insight tonight about the witnesses expected tomorrow january six hearing. sources telling cnn at least one would be a rider from the insurrection. stephen airs at ohio man who accused joe biden of another democrats of, quote, treason. pleading guilty to entering the capitol last month. while expected to hear from jason van tate and hope. a former spokesperson and self, propagandist. for the oath keepers. assessment like that which will be crucial for investigators working to establish some link between the trump white house and domestic extremists who

helped lead the mob into the capitol that day. elliott williams, jonah goldberg, and miles taylor are all back with me. yes, jonah still. here so there you go. [laughs] i'm glad hostile here. this week i knew john for that reason. it is a very big ask for one to be able to convince the public that there is a link between extremist and donald trump. remember the michael cohen phenomenon and the idea that he wasn't particularly explicit about saying instructional things. you do this. remember this? >> that is how he speaks. he doesn't give you questions. he doesn't give you orders. he speaks in a code. and i understand the code because i've been around him for a decade. it is your impression to others who work from understand the quote as well? >> most people, yes. >> okay elliott. it works for a decade of knowledge. but how about the oath keepers. the proud boys.

arguably, they have been following him obviously is the president united states for ten years. he hasn't been the president for that amount of time. is that convincing for someone other than michael cohen you're trying to bridge that gap? >> it's tough. you know there's basically two roles to being a prosecutor. don't wear bright color jewelry in front of a jury. and criminal intent is hard to prove. >> i broke the julie rule all the time. i was vibrant, my friend. by basis and charismatic. >> this guy, no coupling somewhat of a jury. but here's the thing. and criminal that it's hard to prove. and linking someone that he intended to carry out an action it's just difficult to do. the crime of seditious conspiracy is using force to prevent, hinder, or delay the excuse than any law for the night. states you've got that for the oath keepers in progress that are charged. proving that the president conspired with them, agreed with them, met with them is just challenging. now, the committee is teasing that the jump through -- december 18th meeting. that might have been some

conversation where they are aware in the white house but with the proud boys and oath keepers were about to do. that looks just gonna be challenged proof. or charging the president of the crime. a look, even if you catch our jim. it is a disgraceful conduct and let's be clear it should never happen by any elected official in the united states. but just might not be criminal charges. >> you're not your. at the discretion part of it partly committee school seems to be -- huddling checking the truth. there that i interpret our behavior. that they're trying to essentially disqualify him in the hesitate like dirt. there's not some should be the president united states. is that convincing of that the bridge that gap. you have michael flynn, roger stone, who knew trump more than say the oath keepers are proud boys over the last several years. >> yeah, i get started impeachment flashbacks melodies kind of conversation because during impeachment you had a lot of lawyers. i'm not a lawyer. you could still see my reflection the mayor. >> oh.

what's. >> [laughs] he taught me that come some rattle go away as i said jonah go burke for -- >> some reason. -- the lots of people, like allen shorts who said this is him in this criminal standard, that has made this criminal standard. and impeachments are criminal acts not court proceedings. this is not a criminal courtroom. and the goal of it should, i would like the goal of it in the consequence to be disqualifying trump from public office in all of that. but the aim of this huge speed to lay out the record, i think are absolutely right. they overreach and try to beat the benefit and call beyond the reasonable doubt kind of thing. all he has to do is prove, which i think is sort of obvious. that this was foreseeable. given the advice he was getting from team crazy that he was surrounded him self with. he rejected people told him exceeding want to hear. and brought in the cuckoo bird's like sydney powell who told him exactly what he wanted to hear and roger stone and these guys who invited these people. they laid out these predicates. if it can bring to the magma

counters even though they knew they were armed. just let america connect the. dots you don't have to hammer down all those. dots >> you can lead a horse to water, don't panic attending to drink. that's the point. >> at the risk of siding on the not lower side of the table and against the. all >> that is a huge risk right now. maybe there's a criminal case be made there. i wouldn't nothing about it with a common sense case b made is of course donald trump has links to violence extreme address. i'm not no should almost but a year before the election i said if he loses this thing is going to end tragically because he's already been seeding the narrative of violence. coups and civil war. but take the timeline even further back than that. the first year he was in office. my old boss, john kelly, we all remember him after charlottesville. lowering his head when the president was trying to give the extremists a pass by saying it's both sides. and year two of the administration. donald trump ignored the rise of domestic terrorism efforts. and here three had a terrorist

attack in el paso where the shooter use his language of innovation in the southern border. in four there you had to extend back inside back to the oath keepers. then in 2021, we had in the fifth year, a terrorist attack on the united states capitol. let's be clear, i don't say that lightly. this is domestic terrorist attack on -- >> a homeland security event that has a very clear pattern starting with the presidents permissive attitude towards domestic extremists all the way to potentially people on his team coordinating with those associates of those violence. >> he watched unfold not even in stopping or through. hours >> u.s. might be lower and you don't even know it because you just laid out a perfect argument for civil suits against president. because the middle ground, we're talking macron's and won it and political consequences on the other, but the middle ground is civil suits where somebody sees the president. and the same theory for going up to the planners of an event or rally happened in charlottesville virginia with tonight the right rally. people who planned weren't

necessarily the ones coming out the violence. but we're able to be sued in civil suits. that argument, is moving forward in courts now and police officers, members of congress, who were injured or harmed in some way. even if you're not gonna see some criminal charges -- >> if you either bring it suits again and members of congress for at least part the conversation. much of the former president did say but what about sitting members of congress. i mean, we haven't heard enough in my mind from who is still there. who may have had a head or roll. there's been a focus, it seems, almost regular times against donald trump. but he did not act alone. the extent there are people calling back and forth if he acted at all. we're going to hear more? do you want to hear more about members of congress? where is that sort of the beating of the dead horse as an analogy. >> this is one of the reasons why we needed a 9/11 style commission in my. pena this is so much bigger

than i somewhat topside it select committee is gonna be able to handle. the 9/11 commission took years to look into this. again, 9/11 was terry's attack. this really generally was a terrace attack. and it needs that more thorough review. i am worried that by the time we get to the end of this we actually have a complete picture. i think we've got a lot more information we had a year and a half ago. but we won't because of the resistance we saw from the gop to end up creating that type of fetch commission. >> alicia williams, jonah goldberg, and must taylor. just for the record, we have seen our elections as lawyers. and i like mine. thank you so much. everyone. i'm giving you our time politically conversation of all of you here. we'll be right back in just a moment.

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