cipollone movement, and emotional responses from police officers who survived the attack. all that when we come back.

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a traveling theme in these hearings made a return appearance of vice chair of the committee liz cheney laid it out in your closing remarks. >> after our last hearing president trump tried to call a witness in our investigation, a witness you have not yet seen in these hearings. that person declined to answer or respond to president trump's call and instead alerted their lawyer to the call. their lawyer alerted us. and this committee and supply that information to the department of justice. let me say one more time, we will take any effort to influence witness testimony very seriously. >> for more on how this is being handled, we are being

joined by cnn senior justice correspondent evan perez. as the committee going so far as to accuse the former president of witness tampering? >> it does sound like it jake, and according to the deputy chairwoman i believe, liz cheney and that committee, she said that they were sent this over to the justice department. you know also jake, that in a previous hearing the committee described what they said were efforts to certainly seems to intimidate another witness, cassidy hutchinson, reminding her that the former president reads transcripts. somebody was aware that she was going in for her deposition. there seems to be a pattern that someone is very concerned about and that is something the justice department would take a seriously. i will say so jake just the description of what liz cheney described during the hearing

today, just that alone doesn't quite meet the definition of interference of witness tampering, but perhaps there's additional information that prosecutors could get to that would make it more much more serious. >> evan, you and i and others at cnn have been covering donald trump's attempt to overturn the election. it started long before january six, 2021 of course, and i want to turn in some new audio we got of steve bannon obtain my mother jones magazine's dan freeman. it reports this is from october 31st, 2020. days before the. election let's take a listen. of the >> trump has to declare victory, he has to declare victory. if that doesn't mean he's elected, he's just gonna say he's elected. the democrats more of our people, those voted in. so they're gonna have a natural disadvantage and trump's gonna take advantage of that, so we

wake up wednesday morning, he's going to be a fire storm. he can sit right there and say they stole. >> yeah. >> i'm directing the attorney general to shut down all ballot places in all 50 states. he's not going out easy. if biden is winning, trump is gonna do some crazy bleep. >> and jake that is pretty much what trump ended up doing right? he holds a press conference, he basically says i know that i won the election. the thing that messes this obviously is the early call from fox news that said arizona had gone in the column of joe biden. but jake, keep in mind that some of the link things we have learned from this administration, from this committee, that trump had hired some legal team, members of his legal team and preparation for justice is far back as august

and september. before the election. so he seemed to have a plan ahead of time, at least that's where we have learned from this committee. as we see it play out and some of that audio from steve bannon, and we see what the former president was trying to do which was first of all, so doubt about the late incoming results, which we knew and everyone knew were gonna come because of some of the measures that have been taken to deal with the coronavirus. all of this was sort of a playbook that the former president was prepared to deploy knowing that, he didn't really care how the results were, he was going to declare victory no matter what. >> i should note added that we reached out to steve bannon for comment. a spokes sent spokesman said nothing on the recording it hasn't already been said on his podcast on multiple other shows unquote. evan perez thanks very much. another constant in these hearings is the president in the gallery of law enforcement

officers and former officers who defended the capitol on january 6th, some of whom were badly hurt. congressmen giant beaming raskin today recognize one of them, aquilino -- . >> last month on june 28th, sergeant canals team of doctors told him that permanent injuries he is surface to his left shoulder and right foot now make it impossible for him to continue as a police officer. he must leave policing for good and figure out the rest of his life. sergeant gonell, we wish you and your family all the best, we are here for you. we salute you for your value, we are eloquence and your beautiful commitment to the country. and i wonder what former president trump would say sent to someone like sergeant canal who's now has to go about remaking his life. i wonder if he could even wonder what motivates a patriot like sergeant gonell.

>> with us now, one of sergeant gonell's comrades on the january 6th attack at the capitol police officer harry dunn. officer dunn, you've attended all the hearings the committees held publicly so far. today for the first time we heard a lot of testimony from someone who was one of the rioters who breached the capitol on january six. what did you make of that? >> going back real quick the intro to the segment we talk about former officers that something to hear because on january 5th wasn't a former officer. that just sucks to hear that, because those three other gentlemen that i served with, what a great -- that's where you want from police, just good individuals who take their oath and job seriously, so that kind of resonated with me. as far as the individual's testimony, i was irritated by

it. the individual who was charged, he spoke about how his life is ruined and some of the bad things that happened to him. as we just talked about, we have two people that are no longer going to be police officers. also sitting next to sergeant gonell and michael phenomenon was a widow of an officer, jeffrey smith. talk about her life never being the same. so forgive me if i show a lack of sympathy towards that individual and what he has lost. he made a choice and the other individuals they sacrificed their lives. >> let's not forget of course brian sicknick officer brian sicknick who died that day and his family believes it was related to trauma he withstood. we've talked to officer sicknick's mother gladys and his former girlfriend and they are always in our thoughts. i hear you when you think about

it now anybody should feel bad for the rioter stephen errors. >> i talk to mrs. sicknick journey hearing and she said of just tough to her for her to watch. so god bless her, a lover to death, i've just gotta keep showing up at least four people like her, people it can't do it. we are gonna see this all the way through, and police will see the justice get served to the end. >> even if you don't have sympathy for stephen errors and i certainly understand your position, i thought it was worthwhile to hear his testimony and if donald trump is told his supporters to go home maybe not all of the violence could've been prevented don't you? think >> well yeah. not just his testimony, but if you look at the text messages, that were obtained by the

january 6th committee. prominent news anchors, advisers at the white house, kept saying he has to say something, he has to condone, this he has to stop this. people are going to die, you have members of congress saying he needs to do something. so not only did mr. errors know -- not only was he hanging on to his words the members of congress and elected leaders. news anchors. they knew that it was important for him to speak out. and he did not. >> at the end of the hearing, steven ayres approached you, and your fellow officers, fanone, gonell, hodges, you tweeted about it afterwards. someone had posted on twitter, referencing the moment as an apology given and accepted. you responded, apology given and quote. so what did stephen ayres say to you? and how did it make you feel at the time? >> well he apologized, and that's what it was. it kind of caught me off guard. we are sitting there, still

processing -- a couple of minutes before that sergeant gonell had to excuse himself from the hearing room because he got overwhelmed with emotion. i went out there after him. and come back in, and you know, we are still trying to process that. and we are ambushed for a lack of a better word, with this individual. you know, forcing an apology on us. i mean it's right to apologize, he owes the entire country and anybody who was harmed in that day, emotionally, physically. he owes them his apology also. however, i acknowledge this, but i don't necessarily accept it. that takes some time. >> officer harry dunn, as always, thank you, we appreciate you. >> thank you. >> today was our first time hearing from pat cipollone's testimony, which included a lengthily testimony, also mike pence for resisting pressure to take part in the former presidents last-ditch scheme to overturn the election on the sixth. >> i thought that the vice

president did not have the authority to do what was suggested. under a proper reading of the law. i conveyed that, i think i actually -- somebody in the vice president -- just, i'm not a politician. you know, but you -- know i just said i am a lawyer, this is my legal opinion. but let me tell you this, i say a word about the vice president. i think the vice president did the right thing, i think he did the courageous thing. i have a great deal of respect for vice president pence. i worked with him very closely, i think he understood my opinion. i think he understood my opinion afterwards as well. i think he did a great service to this country. and, i think i suggested to somebody that he should be given a presidential award for

his actions. >> joining us, now richard nixon's white house counsel, john dean. john, you have been vocal in the past for the need for pat cipollone to testify. how much, or did his testimony change the dynamics of this investigation? >> we don't know yet, because we only have tidbits from this testimony. i was watching that clip, and thinking about the text exchange with my wife earlier. where we had a little trouble, kind of gagged on it. it looked to me like he was soliciting business from trump world. for those who are saying that anyway, which has been one of the problems with his testimony. we note, he did invoke the privilege, occasionally, in his testimony. anderson, we don't have a picture yet. i think next week is going to be the pat cipollone moment if there is one. and i look forward to it. >> do you agree with vice chair cheney, i sense you don't. that pat cipollone's testimony met expectations? you're saying it didn't go far

enough in your opinion? >> i don't know how far it's gone. i don't know what their expectations were. so it's difficult to assess. i am delighted the committee feels that they got what they needed. but their needs are somewhat limited. they are really focusing on one date, and the events that precede it. i think pat cipollone has a lot more to offer. and needs to offer more, so that we can get all of this in a bigger context. >> to the extent of your testimony, of ex president nixon. does it surprise you that former president trump is reportedly fuming over pat cipollone testimony? >> [laughs] not at all, not at all. nixon didn't watch my testimony, in fact, he couldn't even listen to his recorded conversations with me. had others do that, and they miss reported to him what i had actually told him. but that's another issue. i can understand why trump is upset. this is exactly the sort of

thing that he -- that clarifies him. because he's getting the worst side of his image out. he is unable to control what's being put out there. and it's not a pretty picture that's going out there. >> there were a lot of bizarre days and late nights in the white house during watergate. was there anything ever to compare with the oval office meeting that pat cipollone wasn't? trying to head off sydney powell, the power sugar of dr. pepper, and mike flynn's efforts to have the president ordered the military to seize voting machines? >> anderson, i can assure you, there wasn't anything in at the time i was out of the white house, or did i learn about anything after i left the white house. in fact, i am something of a student of the presidency. have been trying to think about a parallel. and i just can't find it. this is a historic meeting for the unhinged. we just never had a meeting

like that. it was sort of a movable feast, with rudy staying in the cabinet room. just because he liked the room. i mean this was crazy stuff. >> what's outstanding issues, in your view, do you want to hear pat cipollone address? he knows everything, he was there for everything. what did he want to hear from him? >> but i want to hear from him is one, why the committee has -- why he's met their expectations. which would lay out an awful lot. to, i want to understand, how -- why he was still insisting there is a privilege. they are not telling us what the privilege are. whether it's executive privilege, attorney-client, or there's some other privilege he's claiming. he is invoking privilege, there was a little clip of that today. so i would like to hear the whole story. i would like to hear it and feathered, and an centered, if you. well >> john teen, really appreciated as always.

cnn correspondent cornish, cnn political commentator griffin. who served as director strategic communications in the former administration. what do you think it came out of today? how big of a deal was it to hear vice chair liz cheney say the and? saying someone who was going to testify, or has testified, was contacted by the former president? >> i mean obviously, chairwoman cheney, she has been saying all along, hey it seems like someone is reaching out to witnesses. hey, i think that there is going to be a problem here. just so you know, we are paying attention to that. there's been a lot of bread crumbs leading up to this allegation. and i am looking forward, maybe you have more information. as you are kept into trump world. as to like what, how far this has gone, and how much of the committee is a digging. >> it's kind of like, the model of what trump world does. it is intimidation, it is maybe a bit more masked than directly saying hey i'm watching, don't

say this. but it's what cassidy hutchinson referred to that she dealt with. which kept her from getting indifferent council, and coming forward to the committee for months on end. and we don't know how ride reaching the says. we don't know how many people who have come forward, or who haven't already. because they have been intimidated by the former president. i hope it meets the threshold, i'm not a lawyer, as what would count as a witness tampering. regardless, the committee has drawn a very clear line, as of this is unacceptable. and will be referred to doj. >> by the way, the former president -- [inaudible] [laughs] put it on speakerphone. the committee highlighted this clip from katrina pierson. who helped organize the january 6th rally. i want to play some of it about potential speakers. let's listen. >> on december 30th, mr. pierson exchanged text messages with another key rally organizer. about why people like mr. alexandra, were being suggested as speakers at the presidents rally on january 6th. miss pierson's explanation was

potus. she remarks at the president likes the crazies. the committee asked miss pierson at the messages. this is what she said. >> so when you so said he likes the crazies were you talking about president trump? when you say he likes the crazies are we talking? and >> yeah let's talk about president trump. he loved people who defended him in public. a consistent to what the president likes a list where you could tell. >> yes, the people who would be very very vicious in public defending him. >> as someone who works in the white house i wonder what you mean that the former president likes the craziness? >> it's true, and it's a sad thing i learned very quickly about donald trump. so long as you will viciously defend him, regardless of the fact the state, if there are true or not, regardless of what associations you may have a, fewer tied to extremist groups, as long as you were defending

and evil want your voice to be amplified. this is something that was apple shown in his twitter feed, the kind of voices that were amplified tied to qanon and other extremist groups. i want to say this, the kind of theme throughout this hearing is that what the president privately says about some of his supporters is extremely demeaning. i don't think they realize that. >> he makes fun of them? right >> he makes fun of them. that's something i hope gets out. also he was told he lost, he was told there was no victory, a path of victory, any kept going forward, and let these people stormed the capitol. i hope if nothing else that broke through his supporters. >> he is counting on ignorance. he is counting on people to believe because we as a society believe if the president of the united states saying something, and has the level of gravitas there must be believed. so the witnesses saying hanging

on every one of his words and must be true. and behind the scenes and in front of the cameras, we know he was not telling the truth. he was capitalizing and hoping on that very notion. similarly, some witnesses who were testifying wheeler recently, are hoping that the american public doesn't understand things like privilege. the idea that you can just say because the prevalence president said to you, it's privileged. i'm not answering questions. privilege holds a very special place. it actually has to be within the confines of getting some sort of advice or counsel. and had to be privately communicated. it can't just be if president trump ordered an ice cream cone, the person can't tell you what flavor. that's not not how it actually works. as pat cipollone as he's describing all the things that cars that are going on, some of the notions that he is saying, are capitalizing again on the assumption that most people will think that because the president said it, forget it, all bets are off to paraphrase. >> i know we were waiting for cipollone moment to calm the, i was actually taken and watching

him take that deposition in the weakness in cipollone. i don't mean it as a person, i mean it as his inability as white house counsel to prevent this. donald trump was told by the attorney general, told by the white house counsel, told by the authoritative legal voices in his administration that it was discounted because of what it wasn't what he wanted to hear. so watching cipollone today, i thought, wow you just seem like a diminished forced inside. >> if i can just say really quick, i was in many meetings with us in the oval office with cipollone, always make sound counsel to the president. but he was constantly diminished. but the the times that the president would say i wish i had better lawyers, and he would look at cipollone and other senior officials. >> his definition of a better lawyer is roy cohn. we'll continue the conversation shortly, next with right wing

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[ sfx: minion spits bobber ] minions are bitin' today. [ sfx: submarine hatch closes, submarine dives ] ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ hello! minions: the rise of gru, only in theaters. hey! in the last hour. anderson spoke with one of the witnesses who testified today. a former spokesperson and self-described propagandist for the far-right militia group the oath keepers. during the hearing, he spoke about had the former presidents actions and words in bold and the oath keepers another extremist groups. tonight, he says that the oath keepers still pose a danger to this country. >> are they still risk? >> i think so. so, i was guilty myself of underestimating them. a breakaway around 2016, 2017, and -- you know, i didn't think there was a certain amount of

enough this that i saw. but at the same time, they stormed the capitol, the more explosive santa. i was guilty of underestimating them, and i think we're just at a point in time, and history, where we cannot do that anymore. >> i'm joined now by kathleen blue, a professor at northwestern university, and the author of bringing the warholm, the white power movement and pillow terry america. thanks for joining us. you said you would be looking how connected these extremist groups were with not only members of the trump administration our orbit, but also with each other. did the hearing explain that to you in a meaningful way at all? >> it did. they did an excellent job today, i think. that is one thing that i wish had been brought up more fully, and maybe we can talk about

that. that is that the white power movement, for the purposes of this committee, hearing their interested and figuring out culpability for the former president and other members of the administration. they spent a lot of time on things like, did he know about the election being lost, did he issue a call that was then used as a unification point and a call to arms for various extremist groups, it's very clear that both of those things are true based on the testimony we heard today. but the other part that we should be paying attention to is what the attack on the capitol meant to people in this movement. one of the comments that was read in testimony today to the tweet about it will be wild that the former president wrote was a direct reference to a white power novel called the turner diaries, which describes -- it's a handbook for how white

separatists and take over the united states and then, throughout camping of violence and genocide, create an all white planted. that book has a and and attack on the capitol very much like the one we saw on the sixth. the point about attack, within that book, and within the ideology of this movement, is not a mass casualty event. it was not imagine doesn't mask casualty action, like the one they successfully overt undertaken oklahoma city. it was mentioned as a strike at the heart of power. it was meant to recruit. it was stunningly successful. so we shouldn't let the idea of ineptitude distract us from what was, for the militant, write a very successful recruitment action. >> i want to play part of the testimony from stephen ayres. he was a supporter of donald trump, not affiliated with any of these groups. he came to washington d.c. and stormed the capitol on january 6th. let's hear a little bit of that. >> when you arrived on the

ellipse that morning, were you planning on going to the capital? >> no, we didn't actually plan to go down there. you know, we went basically to see this rally, and that was it. >> so why did you decide to march to the capital? >> well, basically, you know, the president got everybody riled up, pulled everybody to head on down, so we basically just followed what he said. >> we know that you illegally am toured the capitol that afternoon left the capital area later on. what made you decide to leave? >> basically, when president trump put his tweet out, we literally left right after that came out. you know. to me, if he would've done that earlier in the day, 1:30, i -- you know. we wouldn't be in this bad of a situation or something. >> so that's, you know, for want of a better term, a common

man type individual who attended the rally. we also saw the committee showing the direct result of donald trump's tweet on the early morning of december 19th, 2020, saying come to d.c. on january 6th. we'll be wild, et cetera. and the fact that hadn't far-right organizations, and again, for lack of a better word, charismatic local or smaller level figures. this is all the same kind of result in the sense that donald trump says something, and you have masses of people following his everywhere. >> yes. but we want to be clear about who's involved in those masses of people. so january six, the crowd really consists of three different groups. one is sort of, like mr. ayres, people who is there to see the action, perhaps to see trump, and he was swept up in the day. the people in that group really range and intensity and in how

far down the path towards illegal activity they went. then, we have the qanon folks. that is a much different sort of mobilization. it relies on conspiracy theory and some other major themes we could talk about, if you wish. finally, we have was really the focus of today's hearing, which is the organized white power movement and military right. two things that. first of all, this is the smallest and most highly organized part of the january six crowd. but there are people who are there with tactical gear, weapons, explosives, and a plan about what they wanted to do. how they wished to breached the capitol. so the critical thing in today's hearing is that they got the go-ahead order from trump. rather than being brought along and a spontaneous fashion. but for those activists, they are they're looking for an opportunity to reach folks in the stop the steal pool like mr. ayres and

bring them along. >> fascinating. kathleen belew, thank you so much. appreciate your expertise. today, the committee highlighted two meetings at the white house and december 2020 involving discussions of attempting to overturn the democratic election. there was that he did, hours long meeting that evolved into a shouting match between the president's legal team and these outside advisers, let's call them. then, there was the 13 days later on december 20 forced involving 11 republicans. >> according to white house visitor logs contained by the committee, members of congress president at the white house on december 21st included congressman brian babbitt, andy biggs, matt gates, louis gilmore, paul gosar, andy harris, jody hice, jim jordan, and scott perry. then, marjorie taylor greene was also there. we also heard testimony in an earlier hearing that a pardon was ultimately requested by congressman -- another members

of congress that attended this meeting. >> i'm joined now by correspondent ryan nobles. ryan, what do we know about this meeting? >> well, it was a planned meeting, jake, and it came shortly after the president was advised by members of the white house that there was no path forward after january 6th. but despite that advice, -- met with these members of congress about how they were gonna delay the certification of the electric results on january 6th. some of the members of congress were trying to come up with ways to help that and game by the former president, others weren't so sure. congressman moe brooks, as was pointed out in today's hearing, recommended this wasn't the best course of action for the president on january 6th. he did object. but what's most stark about this, jake, as that that was testimony that was revealed by the committee in earlier hearings that at one point,

when donald trump was trying to pressure the justice department into looking into these false claims of election fraud that he said to them, you take care of that, and i'll take care of the republican congressman. he had, and his mind, kind of a twofold plan to send away the certification of the election. it didn't work that way, but his latest december 21st, he was still trying to put that plan into motion. >> right. he wanted the justice department to announce this fraud, and then leave the rest to me in the republican congressman. we understand you trying to track down some of those who attended. are they talking to? at the shedding light on what happened? >> now, they're not check. that probably doesn't surprise you. we certainly didn't -- my colleague, manu raju, and i trying to find most of them. the vast majority of them had no comment. the ones who did talk said that they didn't remember all that much about what happened. that includes jim jordan, who of course, we know, had multiple phone calls

with donald trump on january 6th. he can't seem to remember at all what happened during those phone calls. he told manu today that he made at the white house a bunch of times. but he doesn't remember every specific meeting. congressman matt gates was also part of that meeting. he just casually mentioned that vice president mike pence was there as well. of course, we knew pence was at a meeting, and that doesn't necessarily mean that learning point in time, pence was in on this effort to stand in the way of the certification of the election. but often, at times, jake, when we tried it push these republican members about what role they played in what led up to january 6th, they often just seem to forget. ryan nobles, thank you so much. appreciate it. and back now with our panel. >> laura, i want to play part of what the former white house counsel pat cipollone testified to today. it illustrates just how much the former president was -- how far he was willing to go to overturn the results. >> there was a real question in

my mind, and a real concern, you know, particularly after the attorney general reached the conclusion that it wasn't sufficient election fraud to change the outcome of the election, when other people kept suggesting that there was, the answer is, what is it? and at some point, you have to put up or shut up. that was my view. >> why was this a bad idea for the country? >> to have the federal government seize voting machines? it's a terrible idea for the country. that's not how we do things in the united states. -- there is a way to contest elections, you know, that happens all the time. but the idea that the federal government could come in and sieze election machines? i don't understand why i need to

tell you why that's about idea. it's a terrible idea. >> apparently somebody did need to be told it was a bad idea. what would have even happens -- i mean, i'm not even sure if it would've happened, if there were enough human beings. i guess there were enough people to go and do something, i guess. what would have occurred? >> i am in fact quoting him when i say what occurred, would actually happen. anderson the notion, here the actual absurdity of having the federal government going into sees what's the states knows they're over to see the time and manner a place of election. they're in control. the supreme court is taken up a case for next term to evaluate just how far an individual state can affirm. even if it's a state court, even the federal government doing so. and it's based on nothing you heard bill barr earlier today say there is no probable cause to do any of this.

i mean, we've got laws, we've got rules, we've got the constitution they're supposed to tell people there are parameters and guidelines. none of that was there. and why he was sort of perplexed about the idea, and having to deal with questions, as i think they want to this flow chart of this much be a joke. to this must be rhetorical. to, i have to explain to them the escalation of the december 18th meeting with the dr pepper moment of trying to drink down and force everyone to go all the acidity of everything going on. it's really -- it would've been violated of the law, anderson. >> there is something i keep coming back to from the washington post, it was from one of the senior officials, one of these anonymous quotes from november 19th, where they say, what's the downside for humor-ing for a little bit of time? it's not like his trying prevent joe biden from trying to take power on january 20th. he's tweeting about filing some lawsuits. and then, you know, he will leave. i don't know when that change

for the people around him. but it does feel the president has been very consistent about how he talks about elections when he lost and what he feels like should be done when you challenge them. where people really that shock when they're in a moment, like we saw cipollone talking? about >> a couple, things i last december 4th and i had a sense things were going to go a very dark route. but after the president then remain in mar-a-lago there is a feeling as one to stay down there and never come back. when he decide to stay in washington, and not go down there for christmas, that was a sense for many that, no, no, he's gonna fight this now. and one thing i noted when we are offset is we know about this 18th meeting, we know that sydney powell, michael flynn who says he refused to leave in a peaceful transition of power in the oval office, and then the yellow oval in the residence, who wave them, which means putting them through

security to get on white house grounds. we don't even have that answer right now. i suspect was mark meadows, and i say that, because i can tell you, before i resign, i said, sir, i'm planning to move on, i want to put in my notice. and he said to me, what if i could tell you are actually going to be staying? and you could interpret that is hypothetical, but there were people around the president telling him that, and that is what led to his absolute insanity? >> when he said that you, did you -- >> i said, oh no. i moved up my resignation to the next morning. and i said no, of course we're not. and i told my staff we lost. >> and what about ryan nobles reporting about the ten house republicans? >> i was looking at that list, and you will recall, four of the members, they actually received subpoenas from the january 6th committee. so it is not just ryan amman trying to chase them down to figure out what's going on there, the committee actually subpoenaed for their fellow members of congress. and as we know, they have been totally unwilling to. top >> and one of them has put up his name to potentially be on this house committee as an

investigator, which was jim jordan. >> and real quick, if i may say, well i appreciate that path cipollone came forward and i think there is going to be very helpful testimony from him in the future hearings, the sort of almost like, oh, this was so ridiculous attitude. he has not been speaking publicly about this for the last year. well, about 30% of the country, if not more, believes that the election was stolen. so it'll be very helpful to have him saying this more forcefully publicly. >> certainly, thank you all. coming up, importance of the state beyond today. the story will play beyond hard look at the most unforgettable moments and evidence. what will they mean for the legacy of the already impeach former commander in chief, as the news continues. um, she's eating the rocket. mr. trump, we are good for ♪ launch. ♪

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my blood pressure is borderline. garlique healthy blood pressure formula helps maintain healthy blood pressure with a custom blend of ingredients. i'm taking charge, with garlique. the reality is the january six hearing, no matter how damning, is that the select committee doesn't have prosecutorial powers. the justice department, and counting the georgia granbury, if any other entity takes action, which is indictment against the foreign president or his top allies, that will be a separate matter, out of the committees reach. at the most wet this panel can do is put extraordinary testimony and evidence out there for the world and for history to see. but from watergate to iran contra, we know that history may not be equipped to forget. and the committee's work is certainly not. and presidential is dorian douglas brinkley from -- university joins us now. doug, from your perspective as a historian, can you talk about what you see is the importance of these hearings and what's come under them so far? >> well it's, holding power,

people that abuse power in, this case, donald trump, accountable. it's been just electrifying to watch. every day trump's in more and more danger of indicted. i never thought i would say that about a sitting president. and you are right, this committee, the documentary evidence that is being pulled together right now, this is going to be the father of history four times to come. since the civil war, we have never had such an event we're the congress was being, you know, basically attacked. and donald trump's fingerprint seemed to be all over this. you know, you just think about, and makes your mind rollback to roger stone, the rule he has played, he has a tattoo of nixon anna. he was angry that they got nixon in watergate. and now he is going to save donald trump. and trump pardoned roger stone. and more and more realizing there really is a right-wing,

white supremacist conspiracy driven cool anna infuse group that really believed they could topple the u.s. government. >> and had access to presidential power. we know this now. looking ahead to the next hearing, what more do you think you want to know, does history want to know, about the men presidents actions, inactions on that day? >> you know, this is a crime scene, what happened at the u.s. capital. and we want a tiktok a timeline of it. and we want to know every second in the white house what donald trump did and said, what does cipollone no, there is no privilege for him. there is not an executive privilege. and he has not said he is the personal lawyer of donald trump. so i think we just have to keep putting the puzzle pieces together. but when george w. bush had to deal with the 9/11 attack, i once worked on a tip top timeline we're every second is accountable.

we need to know every comment a trump made, and it might be like pulling teeth to get it out of some republicans. but there are people who are being patriotic. we saw casts hutchinson last week, liz cheney is doing an extraordinary job at prosecuting this. and i think, if i were trump, i would seriously b-word each time this becomes a televised event. we are still a divided country, but he's in deeper trouble every time the public really learns what's agenda was starting in december and leading into the january 6th morass. >> if the attorney general is weighing the historical president of charging a former president, when you think the pros and cons of he is considering our? >> that is the key question right now. you know, when gerald ford pardon nixon, i kind of back then, i was young. i first unlike. it but then i thought he did the right thing. ford called his mom or a time to heal. he heal the country by pardoning nixon. but we can see the problem with

forward doing the pardon. if you're donald trump, he likes to quote from nixon, of the president does it, it is not illegal. that is what nixon said, and that is what trump believes. and i am afraid this justice department has the onerous task of indicting donald trump because we have to drive home to the people that nobody is above the law, including the president of the united states. that is as fundamental to our democracy as any principle. >> joe brinkley, thank you so much, great to talk to you. jake, i know you have some thoughts to talk about why you saw today. >> that's right. some difficult revelations today about events in our nations past, with only one common theme that the need for government transparency and the reluctance of government officials to allow it to those of you, all of us, who paid their salaries. first of all, of course, shocking testimony from former trump white house officials, including then white house counsel pat cipollone, who describe to the house committee a screaming match between him and other white house lawyers,

with trump super fans mike flynn, rudy julianna, and pattern former ceo of overstocked accomplished, allegedly in a meeting to undermine your, our democracy. and a scheme to declare martial law to seize voting machines. >> can the federal government seize voting machines? >> that is a terrible idea. that is not how we do things in the united states. >> now, we know this, not because cipollone voluntarily immediately told the american people. we only know it because of journalists and because in this case of this testimony, democrats now control the house. and democrats formed a bipartisan committee, one that republican congressional leaders fought tooth unable, and that partisan committee subpoena cipollone to testify. that is oversight we would not have had.

that is knowledge of facts we would have been denied had trump's party been in charge. and today we are also finally getting some answers about what went so wrong seven weeks ago with uvalde school shooting were 19 children and two teachers were killed. with the austin american statesman newspaper obtaining surveillance video which i want to warn you is disturbing. video showing police standing in the hall for more than an hour and 15 minutes during the massacre, with the sound of gunshots going off and screaming by children. one even taking a moment to put on hands into ties, god forbid he catch a cold. remember how texas police and texas politicians originally described the police response seven weeks ago? >> the reason it was not worse is because bond force mint officials did what they do,

they showed amazing courage by running towards gunfire for the singular purpose of trying to save lives. he >> that's not how i would describe what we saw in that video. now governor abbott has since taken back that statement. but just remember who told him this incredibly false version of the events that day? to local police officers and one state police officer. for our democracy survive, we need transparency from our public officials. if we do not get it, we get lied to. and people get away with misdeeds and even crimes. you've eovaldi parents pay the salaries of those costs and politicians. and all of us who pay federal income tax, we pay the salaries of donald trump and pat cipollone. we learned again today, by the hearings that video, we cannot

rely on officials to tell us of the ugliness that is going on unless our system demands that the facts come out. people who work for you will sometimes lie to hide their crimes, to hide their failures. just remember that next time you hear someone in power, someone who's salary you pay, complaining about citizens or journalists who have questions that they would rather not answer. anderson? >> jake, thanks for that. and to our guest. stay with us for news coverage. cnn news with don lemon tonight. little as a day. bath fitter. it just fits. visit bathfitter.com to book your free consultation. time. it's life's most precious commodity, especially when you have metastatic breast cancer. when your time is threatened, it's hard to invest in your future. until now. kisqali is helping women live longer than ever before

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