na trump has passed away at her apartment in new york city. according to a statement, police found her unresponsive, pronounced her dead at the scene. there doesn't appear to be any criminality related to her death. ivana is the mother of donald, jr., ivanka, and eric trump. ivana trump was 73 years old. i want to hand it over to laura coates and "cnn tonight." >> thank you, anderson. i'm laura coates and this is "cnn tonight." it will be three weeks tomorrow since the sport overturned roe v. wade. and ever since we've seen trigger laws across the country going into effect. we've seen celebration from those who wanted roe to be overturned. you all have seen protests from those who didn't. it's been triggering. antiabortion advocates have been accused of being cruel and

controlling. abortion rights advocates have been accused of exaggerating the harm of overturning roe v. wade. they've even been accused of concocting victims whose stories will pull on the heart strings of america, including being accused of concocting the story of a 10-year-old girl who was raped and forced to take an abortion outside of her own state because, man, a story like that would really prove the problem of having no exceptions with abortion bans or the bans themselves. the truth is this case gained national attention since president biden referred to the little girl while discussing abortion rights actions, telling the story of how she had to cross state lines from ohio to indiana to have her abortion after becoming impregnated by her rapist at just ten years old. because rape victims are ineligible for abortions in ohio after cardiac activity, which is around six weeks.

this little girl -- and i will stress, this little girl -- had to travel because she was six weeks and three days into her pregnancy. now, many republicans who supported overturning roe v. wade, well, they wanted her story not to exist. the wall stre"the wall street j editorial board even called it an abortion story too good to confirm. listen to our state's own attorney general just three days ago casting doubt on this little girl's horrific trauma. >> we have regular contacts with prosecutors and local police and sheriffs, not a whisper anywhere. i know our prosecutors and cops in this state. there's not one of them that wouldn't be turning over every rock in their jurisdiction if they had the slightest hint that this occurred. >> not a whisper anywhere, said a.g. dave yos with great certainty. and fellow ohio republican, jim

jordan, he joined in. the ranking member on the house judiciary committee seized on that and tweeted, i'm not going to lie. anyone surprised? well, they wanted to render her invisible, a figment of your imagination. but the sad truth is, she does exist. a 27-year-old undocumented immigrant is under arrest and charged with raping that child, that little girl. and columbus police say that he has confessed. he has admitted, they say, to raping the 10-year-old little girl and not once, on no less than two occasions. he is now charged with felony rape of a minor under the age of 13, a law that's on the books because this can happen. and even after an arrest in a reported confession by this suspect, ohio's top law enforcement officer says he stands by everything he said. when he was asked if he would apologize, he replied, apologize

for what? questioning a newspaper story? that wasn't quite what it was. and that tweet by congressman jordan has disappeared. but cnn's manu raju was able to track him down for this follow-up question. >> why did you delete the tweet? >> well, because we learned that an illegal alien did this heinous crime, so we deleted the tweet. >> do you apologize to the girl and the family for suggesting it was a lie. >> i never doubted the child. i was -- i was responding to a headline from your profession, the news profession, which happens all the time on twitter. never questioned the child. >> maybe i didn't hear right. but explain what you said to the child. something tells me that maybe the blame the media or reference

to president judooe biden and st ecs aren't going to do the trick in this case. and speaking of misdirected anger, indiana attorney general is now vowing to investigate the doctor who helped this little girl get an abortion. opinion overturning roe v. wade so it can put its strict abortion law into effect. think about this. you hear about a child raped multiple times, and your focus is going to be on her doctor or maybe, as congressman jordan seemed to indicate, our immigration laws, which undoubtedly will be the next horizon frontier in this discussion. but the ag in indiana has called into question whether the obgyn who performed the procedure properly reported the case. according to "the star," revealed they did report the

abortion. sad reality is that her case of sexual assault is hardly an anomaly. that's why exceptions for rape and incest were largely codified across this country. sadly, it can and will happen again. the question is, will those on the side of abortion rights be able to do anything about it? with the house likely voting tomorrow on a bill to codify abortion rights and with the senate most likely not to pass it, i mean, what are the other potential avenues? joining me now, dr. may winchester, an obgyn in ohio wrrks they've banned all abortions after a fetal heart beat is detected unless the mother's life is threatened. she says she's now forced to call her attorney before terminating a pregnancy and working to save a mother's loss. also with us, nancy northup, president and ceo of center for

reproductive rights. ladies, i'm glad to have you both with me here today. dr. winchester, i have to ask you to sort of react to this case and what it's become. there is the obvious horror of a child being sexually assaulted, full stop. then there's the second horror, really, of a story like that being doubted and treated as if it was a political pawn. what is your reaction to that? >> you know, i care for many patients with many stories that have brought them to me when they needed an abortion. and all of them are valid. but as someone who provides comprehensive reproductive health care, that means that sometimes i do care for very young people who need an abortion and who have often suffered from traumatic, devastating abuse. and the story coming out of ohio, my hometown, is not an isolated event. it is not new, and it's certainly not one of a kind by any means.

these bans on abortion that limit access hurt everybody but especially those who need it the most. >> nancy, when you hear that, the idea of it not being an anomaly, the idea of it happening -- i mean, one of the reasons we have laws like this on the book that are so specific to sexual assaults of minors is because we know, as society, whether we want to admit it or not that it can happen. and yet we have a conversation, nancy, surrounding the agency and autonomy over a body. we often think about a woman's body, but it's more expansive. it's about a little girl's body. it's about those who may find themselves with little recourse and in states like this, possibly not. what is your reaction to this real possibility? has it been dismissed by too many at this point? >> you know, here we are. it is just short of three weeks since the supreme court overturned roe versus wade, and you know, this is one story

coming to the fore. and there are so many others. i mean, this girl was a victim of a crime, and yet she and her mom were made to feel that they were criminals because they had to leave their state of ohio because abortion has been banned after six weeks. and of course she went to indiana, where they are looking to have a special session so that they can also put in a ban on abortion. and it is just unconscionable. this is fundamental health care. it is protected. it should be as such. and the story of this little girl being made to have to flee her state is why we do need to have nationwide protection. it is important that tomorrow the house will be voting on the women's health protection act and also on the right to travel, to go to another state where abortion the legal. >> you know, dr. winchester, on

this note, we think about this is obviously a very controversial subject matter. i mean, the idea of abortion rights versus those who don't support it, it's no secret that this has been a topic of discussion, of intense debate for a very long time. but one thing that might surprise people is that you, as a doctor, before you are tasked with deciding how you're going to perform maybe life-saving treatment, in consultation with a patient who may be having a medical emergency, you're thinking about litigation. you're thinking about not just your hippocratic oath. you're thinking about having to contact an attorney. what has this done to you in terms of your ability to practice without the constraints of politics or the threat of litigation? >> you know, it's been really unnerving. and, you know, a recent patient has allowed me to share her story. and she unfortunately broke her water at 19 weeks and really

wanted to keep the pregnancy going despite risks to her and the fetus. and one of the main risks is an infection. and it can develop very quickly and can become severe very quickly. and that's exactly what happened. and the medical treatment for this, the standard care for this, is an abortion. and the patient chose an abortion to save her life. but, you know, three weeks ago, i would have -- you know, this is medical care. we do this not infrequently because this happens more commonly than people might imagine. but the new thing is how am i going to protect my patient legally? how am i going to protect myself? because i'm not a doctor -- i'm not a lawyer. i have not been able to understand that 20-page bill like my lawyers have. so, my first call has to be to my lawyer to make sure that i'm protecting the patient as best as i can. >> nancy, when you hear that, i mean, what goes through your mind about the idea that this is one of the thoughts in terms of

the provision of medical care even in a medical emergency? this has got to be the next horizon for doctors all across this country. >> yes, i mean, at the center for reproductive rights, we've been providing legal advice and support to doctors and abortion providers for our 30 years. and we're now entered this very frightening situation and circumstance. no one should have to be practicing medicine with their lawyer on the phone to make sure that what they can do is legal in the state. and so i think that's one of the things that people don't think about when they think about bans on abortion is that it puts every single pregnancy complication in a very, very difficult realm. and we're going to be seeing that with people who are miscarrying and not being able to get the medical care that they deserve because of these draconian bans on abortion in states. it is really imperative that

everybody who supports the fundamental right to make these decisions for oneself makes their support known because we are at a critical period right now. >> and ladies, thank you for joining. this is night hypothetical. i mean, you're experiencing this, dr. winchester in texas. they're now suing the biden administration, i should note, for the guidance that they've given hospitals that they have to allow abortions in emergency circumstances for the life and health of a woman if its at risk. this is not only on the horizon, it's here right now. dr. may winchester, dr. nancy northup, thank you for your time. we're about to dive deeper into how the politics in the 10-year-old little girl's case -- and yes, i will keep saying 10-year-old little girl's case just to remind you where we are right now and the role the right wing media played in frankly sowing so much doubt. next.

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so, this began as a local story in a paper about a 10-year-old little girl who had to cross state lines to get an abortion, a story that was cited by the president of the united states. and well, it sooned turned into this. >> the administration speaking of why just repeat a story about a 10-year-old child who got pregnant and they got an abortion or was not allowed to get an abortion when it turns out the story is not true. >> well, it turns out actually it is true. the right wing media jumping on the story to suggest it was somehow a hoax. and the wall street editorial board called it, quote, an abortion story too good to confirm. that's not a thing, by the way. that is, until a suspect was arrested on tuesday. and as you can see, "the wall street journal" had to add an editor's note to its unfortunate piece. it also filed a new editorial to, quote, correct the record

after a man confessed to the crime. now, the about-face is as astounding as it is awful. and what's worse, figures like fox's jesse watters, who piled on the suspicion, now want to take credit for the suspect's arrest. >> you would think the story of a sexual abuser roaming free assaulting 10-year-olds would raise a bit of concern in small town ohio. but no one seems to be doing anything about it. no one even knows anything about it. prime time covered the story heavily on monday, put on the pressure, and now we're glad that justice is being served. >> oh, okay. sure. joining me now is ashley alison, jonah goldberg, and alice stewart. i'm glad you're all here. just to clear up the record, they were not waiting on him to actually announce this on monday. we've known about the story for quite some time. but to take credit for it really shows me something very different. the fact that this was a story

nobody wants to be true -- no one wants it to be true, that a 10-year-old has been raped repeatedly, let alone got pregnant and had to have an abortion. but why politically, why terms of the media landscape, why was this such a story that just could not be true? was it because it posed a threat to the idea of not having the exceptions? zbling what's disturbing is we heard a lot this week about the same republicans and conservatives that used false claims of election fraud to now push false claims of abortion fraud. and that should not happen. the story here, as you've said, is a tragic story of a 10-year-old girl who was raped by an undocumented man. he fortunately has been arrested and will face justice for his crimes. and what we need to look at this as is this is an anecdote about how we navigate the post-roe world. what do we do moving forward? me, as a pro-life advocate, i believe we should support life and the sanctity for life. i think there should be exceptions for the case of rape,

incest, and the life of a mother. and how will that affect the case like this? how will that affect the next case because unfortunately, there will be another one. and in this case, states are going to dictate the laws. and in this case, this girl, if she had reported this sooner, she could have opted for emergency contraceptions in this case. unfortunately it was reported and got to the authorities too late for that. but there were other alternatives. and what we need to do is navigate and educate people. what do we do next time this comes up? early reporting, believing these girls, and making sure they get the best pre-birth care they can. and in my case, i would advocate for supporting life and encouraging women how they can go about getting the financial treatment and the medical treatment they need to choose life instead of abortion. >> one thing about that six weeks, they talk about grown women not necessarily knowing they're pregnant before a certain period of time. a 10-year-old not knowing that they're pregnant to be able to report -- that's probably where you're going with this.

>> she's 10. there are women in their 50s who have been raped and who have never told their story, let alone a 10-year-old. and you want her to have the courage in six weeks to be educated enough. i don't want to have to educate a 10-year-old about rape and what happens if you're raped. that shouldn't be the life that they have to live. and the reason why these republicans didn't believe her is because they know they are wrong. when we talk about abortion rights, people who do this, they said there are cases -- every case is unique. but cases like this will come up. and they call us the woke left. they call us these radicals. no, we're people who deal with folks every single day and know the lived experience of knowing what it's like to decide whether or not you're going to terminate an abortion or not. and they got caught in their lie and got caught trying to take autonomy out of a woman's right to choose, especially a little girl. so, they tried to dismiss her. they tried to erase her. that's what republicans who

don't believe what happened in the election, republicans who don't want a woman to have the right to choose, they want us to be erased. >> jonah, you can't be quiet during this. >> i'm trying so hard. >> we invite everyone to talk. i want you to weigh in as well. >> let me take the safest course and disagree with you. >> is that the safest course? >> wow, i don't know. breaking news. >> you're the farthest away. look, a agree with your slams on jessie waters and on tucker. what they're doing is irresponsible and grotesque. but you said something about "the wall street journal" where they said their about-face was astounding and outrageous or something like that. i think their about-face was the exact right thing to do. they apologized. they corrected the record. they said, we were wrong. and that's not what tucker and jesse are doing. >> that's right. >> and we should be clear about this. there were legitimate reasons to say that the story wasn't nailed down.

i mean, glen's piece was utterly reasonable to me. i stay out of it entirely because i am sick of what social media encourages this race to be wrong first. people run for stories. you should wait for the second shoe to drop on them. it happens all the time. and sometimes those stories are going to be beneficial to the left. sometimes they're going to be beneficial to the right when they go the wrong way. there are going to be bad stories for the pro choice side in the next few years. there are going to be bad stories for the pro life side. probably more stories for the pro life side given the way things are going. to sort of say that being skeptical about a store -- i understand what they meant. i thought it was a terrible headline. but i understand what they meant by too good to confirm. it does lend pow tore the pro-choice movement. this is such a horrible story. and there are going to be more of those kind of stories. >> you and i have talked about the idea of the moral power. i understood you to mean in that notion, the moral shaming

aspect, moral bullying was the phrase you've used in the past with me. not against me but the phrase we've talked about together. has been the idea that if somebody brings up a story like this, that is so heart wrenching, that is so awful that it shuts down the other side's ability to respond because what are you going to say aside from -- >> i'm wrong. >> -- it didn't happen. >> right. no one is going to want to be maneuvered into the, well, i'm in favor of the rape of a 10-year-old girl position. no one wants to seem like it. which is why jim jordan should man up and say, i got out over my skis, i screwed up, i thought the media was pulling one over on me. i was wrong. people are going to be wrong. it's going to be an ugly fight for the next five years, as people forget how to deal with this stuff. that's why i hate the whole story. >> and not to mention not only acknowledge that you were wrong and apologize and set the record straight. but don't go the other extreme

and say this is because biden's policies letting undocumented people into the country. >> that's where they may go next. they're there. we're here. we're coming right back. thank you so much. first on cnn, new developments of the january 6th investigation. did cassidy hutchinson's version of a key moment just get confirmed? what a police officer from the january 6th presidential motorcade is now saying. a select committee member joins me live next. wealth is breaking ground on your biggest project yet. worth is giving the people who build it a solid foundation. wealth is shuttingdown te for mike's retirement party. worth is givinthe employee who spent half his life with you, the party of a lifetime. ♪ ♪

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a ton of january 6th headlines tonight. the secret service allegedly erased text messages from january 5th and january 6th. that's according to the department of homeland security inspector general. the messages were erased after dhs investigators asked for them. and first on cnn, a d.c. report -- d.c. police officer testified before the committee backing up details of donald trump's heated exchange with his security detail on january 6th, when he was told he could not go to the capitol after the rally. there's new reporting the committee is discussing talking with both the former vice president and the former president. answers straight away from a member of the house select committee on january 6th, congressman pete aguilar. welcome to the program.

a lot has happened in the last few hours. we heard from the last hearing. and i'm wondering first, what is your take on the idea that there are deleted secret service text messages? that's pretty stunning if they were taken away after they were asked for. what does that tell you? >> well, i read the letter that was sent to the homeland security committee, chairman bennie thompson chairs that committee obviously. and i trust that he will work through that and seek answers to additional questions that he has. but i think the committee has proven time and time again that we're going to follow the facts, and we're going to make sure that if it's relevant to the investigation of january 5th and 6th, we're going to ask these questions. and so i think that people should expect us to do just that. >> i mean, at first blush, how many texts are we talking about? is it from a wide swath of

people? are they relevant, is it thought to be? do we have any information about what and who deleted? >> i'm not going to get into the evidence that the committee may have in its possession. but what i can say is that, you know, congressional committees have looked at this. obviously that letter was sent to chairman thompson in his capacity in homeland security committee. but if it's relevant to the work of our committee, we're going to find the facts. we're going to chase these. and we're going to make sure we do everything we can to seek the truth. >> it will be important to follow that thread. to that vain, we're talking about the motorcade incident that was a very big part of cassidy hutchinson's testimony, quite riveting to hear about how it was relayed to her at the white house about what transpired in the car. what can you tell us about the testimony of a d.c. police officer that seems to corroborate what she said? >> the committee has said since

cassidy hutchinson came forward that we stand by her account of what happened. nothing we have heard -- i'm not going to get into specific witnesses. but nothing we have heard contradicts that. nothing we've heard contradicts the testimony that we gave under oath. and we continue to stand by her recollection of events for that day. >> did you inquire in greater detail for people to try to corroborate? there was a lot made about right after that testimony later that evening, i recall, the next day people were picking up on the idea and suggesting that there was something not credible about what she said and trying to undermine it. did the committee then seek out further ways to corroborate? or had that been done prior to her testimony? >> all i'm going to say is that no one has come forward to contradict what she has told us under oath. if people want to come forward and have a different recollection, we would encourage them to come forward and give testimony under oath. that's very different than

putting out anonymous statements that we have seen before. so, that's -- the committee feels strongly about this. we all stand behind cassidy hutchinson, and we hope additional witnesses and individuals who have relevant testimony come forward and their with the committee what they know. >> one would hope. i mean, as a former prosecutor, i certainly understand the idea of people not being able to hide behind anonymity and the value of testifying under oath for credibility, for transparency, for people to better understand it. speaking of coming forward, we've heard from a number of witnesses. the committee have interviewed over a thousand i'm hearing as an estimate. but how serious is the committee about interviewing donald trump or vice president mike pence? >> what we've said is that our investigation continues. we're going to follow the facts. we're going to make sure we do everything we can to ask the relevant questions. we plan to have an additional

hearing that we've talked openly about next week that will piece together the next piece of the puzzle. we feel that we have done a good job in conveying the information about what happened and connecting these dots and chasing the facts about what happened on january 6th and the run-up to that, this most recent hearing talking about the violent extremists and the role they played in the lead-up to that and how the president's tweet on december 19th wasn't just a call to action, but a call to arms, as my colleague, stephanie murphy, said in the hearing. so, we're going to do just that. if there are new details and things to announce, the chairman will announce those at the appropriate time. >> how close do you think you are to the finish line of these hearings? >> well, we've understood from the minute that we took this assignment that this was going to be complicated. this was going to be big. and this was going to be important to protect our

democracy. so, we're not guided by a clock or a congressional calendar. what we're doing is chasing the facts and trying to do our level best to protect democracy here and tell this full and complete story. so, we're going to take that as far as it can. ultimately, we will produce a report of our findings. but in the meantime, we're going to continue to to the work that the american people expect. >> as they often say, a marathon, not a sprint, it seems. representative pete aguilar, thank you so much. >> thank you for having me. we're going to take what we just heard from the congressman amid these new developments to our political and legal insiders next. bubbles so many bubbles! as an expedia member you earn points onon your travels, and ththat's on top of your airline miles. so you can go and see... or taste or do absolutely nothing

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sauteed mushrooms, roasted red peppers, and smothered with melty american cheese. the new pastrami cheese steak. try steak or chicken, too. now at togo's chairman bennie thompson saying today that he hopes next week's prime-time hearing will be the last for the january 6th house select committee. but he is leaving open the possibility for more later this summer. we call that a hedge, everyone. but if this is it, do we know enough? and does the doj know enough for its purposes? miles taylor was chief of staff in the department that oversees secret service. and while jonah goldberg, elliott williams can bring

things. while you can discuss things, jonah, it came off. talk about that. let's talk about secret service, everyone, today because deleted text messages after there's a request for you to hold on to them. something smells a little fishy to me. how about you? >> elliott and i both worked at dhs, and i would be interested to hear what he has to say on this front. i was on both committees that oversee secret service, same at homeland security. immense respect. by bigger concern than the deleted text messages because we don't know the bigger story yet. my bigger concern is the cultural issue there. as elliott knows, secret service agents are going to be put in a very, very difficult conflict, and they already are with this investigation. and that is they feel an obligation to the president that is to take a bullet for that

person. when you drill into someone's head at the raleigh training center where the secret service trains outside washington, d.c. that they're going to take a bullet for someone, when it comes to an issue like maybe deleting a text message that's incriminating, maybe not, i worry that there will be many more issues like that where we might not get the full story. and we're already seeing the difficult position donald trump put people, like ornato. that creates conflicts. it was something we were worried about during the trump administration is these careers he bought close to him. but especially the secret service. it creates this conflict of interest that i don't know that the committee will get to bottom of. >> the way you preface it, it made me say, gosh, do we want to change that culture if the job is to take the bullet? is that what we want to change, the idea of being much more forthcoming and exposing certain

aspects. there is a level required for that responsibility. >> to back this up and going back to the years i was there -- this is a decade ago at this point -- department of homeland security is sort of beset by these kinds of problems. and this is not the first time you've had sort of ethical lapses of the secret service. you've heard the rumors of wheels up, rings off. and the misbehavior folks would engage in when going on trips. it's problematic on that level. to me, sort of from a prosecutorial standpoint or just investigating it, the fact that they've been requested by the committee and law enforcement and that's when they disappeared. in the statement, it had seemed there was a device replacement program. so, perhaps it was switching out phones and magically text messages got deleted. i don't know. but something seems suspicious about it. the committee is right to look into it and get to the bottom of it. >> i want to say just to be really, really clear on this.

there's the conflict these agents face. but this is a very broken agency. i left dhs feeling like the agency itself he knorr mouse cultural issues, staffing issues. it's a broken agency that has created now this moral conflict that agents aren't equipped to resolve on their own, nor should they necessarily. >> i agree it's been a messed up agency for a long time. i met a lot of secret service agents. they were all miserable about the job. i had a problem with bill clinton's lawyers argued there was protection that excluded sworn law officers from having to testify about evidence in crimes. i get there is a level of everything stays secret kind of thing. but we're not talking about an affair, right? >> that was the wheels up, rings off, which is probably a show in the making as it is. >> that means turn off my phone

as far as i'm concerned. ring's off. >> good job. >> look at that. >> but the -- we're talking about potentially an attempt to steal an election, sort of an auto-coup about fomenting a mob or whatever you want to call it, insurrection, or just a riot. and the idea that secret service agents should put their loyalty to a past president above telling the truth and upholding their oath as law officers or sworn officers, whatever the right term is, strikes me as a non-starter. >> and it's different than saying almost like people are talking about a privilege. look at the lawyers. yeah, yeah, they say. you have a privilege notion here. look, i need to have these candid conversations with my advisers. that, to me, is different than the person whose job it is to make sure there's not a threat to the president of the united states of america. but how about this motorcade incident though? we were also hearing tonight

about d.c. police officer who is corroborating what she said was actually right and actually happened. does that fall in the same line with the ideas of speak no evil, sort of the fight club mentality? >> look, at the end of the day, to the privilege point, we actually want these privileges to exist. i want my president to be able to speak to his senior aides in sort of comfort and secrecy and be able to do the business of government. you want secret service agents to keep their mouth shut about what they see with the president unless there's wrong doing and criminality. >> wrong doing is in the eye of the beholder, but crimes are crimes. >> or serious ethical lapses that weigh on this person's fitness to be president of the united states, which may not be criminal but perhaps the public should know about. >> i would say politically, though, if the capitol police story about corroborating the altercation is true and if the hard version, the worst version of this deleted text thing is true, the secret service needs

to be basically disbanded and rebuilt from scratch. if both stories are true, that means a lot of people have been lying to the committee. it means a lot of these agents knew about things and covered it up. and it would be a huge deal. >> easier said than done. we have to protect the president of the united states and everyone who is protected by secret service agents. miles, jonah, and elliott, thank you so much. listen, coming up, we'll look back at the life of ivana trump, her years with donald trump, her tabloid headline divorce, and her legacy. a trump biographer will join me next.

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and a dedicated trade desk of expert-level support. that will push you to be even better. and just might change how you trade—forever. because once you experience thinkorswim® by td ameritrade ♪ there's no going back. ivana trump was a glamorous businesswoman she is best known for her high-profile marriage to the man she called the donald. the pair had three children together, don junior, eric and this afternoon she was found dead in her new york city apartment at the age of 73. the cause of death has not been determined police say there does not appear to be any criminality involved. join me now is trump biographer michael d'antonio. it is so good to see you you have some insight and course into what ivana trump's life

was like you have written the book on donald trump, the donald what do you know about ivana trump, the woman, the mother, the wife of donald trump? >> well i think one thing we have to all recognize is that this is a very creative woman. not only did she come up with that nickname which stuck, she raises three children all on her own. in the various businesses she was the creator and force of the interior spaces so whether it was a casino in atlantic city or hotel in new york, or anywhere else in new york, her hand was there. her creative hand so you got to give her propers for that. >> the former president seemed to appreciate that aspect of her, she even offering her an opportunity to be an ambassador to her home country, this what she had to say about this. >> i like my freedom.

why would i go and say bye-bye to miami in winter? bye-bye to the summer. and bye-bye to spring and fall in new york i have a perfect life. >> spicy personality shone right there, right? >> you got to love it. she's got her own perspective on everything. and that included her marriage, she was famous for having her own sources in the tabloids, her sources of publicity. so if something came up and donald was going to the daily news saying one thing well, ivana went to the new york post to say another so she was really spunky, one of my favorite stories is that early in their relationship, donald trump took ivana to dinner with his family. and the elder trump, fred trumps that everyone will have

the steak and ivana spoke up and said i will have the fish. so you have to give her credit for that. this is a woman who is making a statement right there that she was not going to be pushed around. >> you know, i always sort of cringe when i hear about the life of a human being only in relation to who they have married and who was their spouse and i know that she stands in her own right and you describe her life of the american dream. tell us why? >> well, it sure was. i mean this is a woman who immigrated to the united states at a tender age. she came here and learned everything that was necessary to rise in society very quickly. really by her own wits and by her own talent and by her drive, she succeeded. now there is nothing more american than that.

it certainly actually is more of our myth, our american myth of what it means to be an american striver, to be ivana then to be donald. who was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, this is a great story of a woman who succeeded at a level that she couldn't even have imagined. one thing you got to remember if she grew up living in a soviet era factory house in a small city where the a game in town was the beta shoe factory so to go from that humble beginning to where she ended up is amazing. >> pretty astounding the way you describe it and obviously a great skier we are told from her background, michael d'antonio, thank you so much. everyone, we will be right back. our installers complete your work in as little as a day so we fit your schedule.

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don lemon tonight next on cnn. >> closed captioning is brought to you by thunder shirt, if your dog suffers from fear of thunder, fireworks, separation or any other invited ladies thunder shirt may be the answer. available at these and other retailers.

thank you for watching everyone i will be back tomorrow night , don lemon tonight starts right now, hey don lemon. >> everything okay? >> everything is great, you had a long day. my goodness do you ever sleep? no, just past it. >> i do not, i have many many jobs and you know. that's where we are, one must in this environment. thank you laura i will see you tomorrow night, great show. >> this is don lemon tonight and one of the biggest bombshells of the hearing so far right now, corroborated by someone who was there a source telling cnn a washington police officer cooperating to the january 6 committee details of what cassidy hutchinson was told happened when a furious donald trump tried to get the secret service to take him to the capital where a mob of his supporters were trying to stop the election certification. >> the president said something to the e