>> what's happening there? what am i seeing? is that still a shield there? >> it is shield. so you heard the shot that appears to have grabbed their attention. you have about half a dozen or so officers go down the hall. and they notably leave one of the shields behind. so the shield is the -- we had heard again and again and again that one of the reasons for the delay initially was a request of ballistic shields, and they were waiting for those arrive. >> he is wearing a gas mask there. i don't understand what the purpose of that. >> i saw a couple of them put gas masks on. they just weren't organized. they don't know what they want do. they go down the hall. and as andy said, they leave one of the shields behind, which supposedly is what they were waiting on is all this equipment. but they still aren't making entry. >> that's right. >> and they just heard additional shots fired. they still are not making entry. >> and mind you, there have been

37 minutes between the last time we heard gunshots to now. so the idea of if they thought it was a barricaded situation, or no longer an active shooter, that has now been retriggered. >> and it will be another half an hour before they make entry. >> i just want to talk about the victims, right? because i spoke to one of the mothers of one of the kids who survived. and she told me that her son recollects, remembers someone hearing a police officer say hey, you inside? do you need help? and the kid answers back yeah, we're in here. and then the gunman shoots and kills him. so that is happening. now it could have been in this moment. we just don't know. we don't know. and it's very hard to get that kind of specific information out of the children. but i think law enforcement has some idea, because actually, it was fbi forensic. >> type of ert.

>> who deals with interviewing kids. to try to elicit specific information. that's what's going on. there are more people being shot. that's where it led to believe. when you talk to the kids and the parents, because the gunman kept walking around. and the kids had to act as if they were dead. because they knew if he saw that they were alive, he was going shoot them. >> remember, we had the one young girl who testified via video for congress that she smeared the blood of a classmate and friend on her body to play dead. and a teacher survived believing that the entire classroom was playing dead. well still have yet to reach the door with all the officers gathered and all these minutes in. we'll be right back.

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77 minutes in uvalde. our tape is rolling. it's still rolling. it's been rolling. and in the minutes you missed, law enforcement failed to make entry and have now been talking in these groups that we're seeing. let's keep watching together with our experts. this is minute 55. minute 55. now the idea of trying to

penetrate, the idea of going in and trying to at least go into that classroom, there was obviously going to be a risk to the officers' lives. there was already risk and lives either lost or dying people, children, two teachers at least in the classroom. what do you make of this calculus of not even going in to try to get a shot off? >> there shouldn't have even been a calculus. every law enforcement officer knows when they hold up their right hand and are sworn in, they are accepting that risk that some day, god forbid, they might be in this situation or one very similar, and they'll be called upon to put themselves in harm's way. watching this, laura, i can't help but think back to i think ten days before this, we had the mass shooting at the tops grocery store in buffalo. and you had a retired police officer working as a security guard in that store who wildly outgunned with no body armor went to the sound of the gun, addressed that gunman, fired

some shots and lost his life as a result, but probably saved other lives. >> he saved lives. because what he was able to do, and i was there and i covered that story sadly, he was able to slow the gunman down. and that gave police time. probably saved a couple of lives because it just -- it slowed the gunman down. you kind of stop the momentum, right. we've been hearing a lot about momentum in these situations. the momentum. so you slow the gunman down. the police have time. it gives them more time to get there. and they can then neutralize the gunman. and we didn't have that here. we had none of that here. there was just -- >> wait a second, wait a second, are we seeing someone get hand sanitizer? >> yeah. >> now maybe -- maybe it's nerves or something. i -- >> there is no explanation for it. >> i can't believe that. >> for any of this right now. look at how they're just standing around in the hall. it wasn't long before. it was as if they were afraid to

even go into the hall to expose themselves. now they're just standing around. and it's something like what andy said earlier. it's kind of like the end of the train where everybody is standing around chatting, or whatever. there is no sense of urgency. there is no organization. there is no planning going on as to how they're going to make entry to take this guy out. i mean, what are they doing? >> and think about this. as you all talk about, i mean, when i think about sort of the first responder, when we all think about first responders, we think about those who run towards danger while everyone else is running away. >> that's right. >> at the beginning we saw a child see a gunman in the hallway and run away. no one would begrudge a child for running away. but i remember 9/11 as an example and seeing firefighters and first responders running in to a building after one had collapsed. even when they saw the collapsing, they would go in. and we were looking at this. it was an idea of selflessness we expect of our first responders. the insult to injury, if you can

add up the volumes of it is the hand sanitizer. thinking about something like i wonder if i have germs on my hands. there are children calling 911, asking to come in because their teacher is alive. >> laura, laura, i've spent 47 years active service in policing. and i've seen officers put themselves in harm's way over and over again. i've seen them lost their lives putting themselves in harm's way. my last eight years in philadelphia i lost eight officers in the line of duty in eight years. five were shot to death. i mean, i've seen it my entire adult life i've seen this. this is not representative of what policing is really all about. >> that's absolutely right. >> so when you ask what about this, what about -- there is no excuse for this. this guy should have been dead a long time ago, all right. they should have gone in there and they should have taken him out, period. you've got the equipment. you've got everything you need. the only thing that's missing is the courage to do what you got to do.

>> you talk to law enforcement officials, this is what you hear from them. it makes them mad that this happened. this is not representative of training, of what law enforcement is supposed to do. this will be one of the worst failures ever on the part of law enforcement. and so -- >> bar none. bar none. one of the reasons why this is so shocking and it's so infuriating because those of us in the community from the law enforcement community, we've seen -- the overwhelming examples that we've seen and experience ready the exact opposite of people running to the sound of the guns, running to danger, helping those around them, willing to sacrifice themselves. so coming from that experience and watching this is absolutely -- >> let me ask you a question. we're 1:54:02 in. learning that they're saying that s.w.a.t. is on the way. andrew you were part of a s.w.a.t. team. because they weren't on the scene immediately.

you're called to a s.w.a.t. team and you're supposed to respond to that. what are things you would have expected to already have been done over attempted before they called s.w.a.t. or is it contemporaneous with the 911 call? >> as soon as you get that call, you typically have all or most of your equipment with you 24 hours a day constantly. because you're always waiting for that call. but you may not be close by. the fact that it took them 45 minutes, an hour to get there, this is a place, a very rural place. those folks could have been spread out all over who knows how far away. that's why police officers, first responders have been trained since columbine the not wait for s.w.a.t. you should never have heard that radio call, "wait for s.w.a.t. to arrive." no. you are here. you've got the long guns. you've got the bullet shielders. 20 cops in that hallway. go down and do your job. >> they've been trained since c columbine? >> columbine was the wait for s.w.a.t. contain the area, wait for

s.w.a.t. we said no, that's not what we do. and training changed after columbine. >> >> sea change in training. it wasn't always where patrol officers were riding around with long guns. and i think because of the active shooting training, that changed. so they said okay, especially with some of the smaller police departments, you need to start training your officers with these long guns because of these situations. you know, your officer in this small police department may be the first officer onscene in a situation like this. so that officer needs to be ready to grab whatever gear they have in the car, and they should have the gear to go in. >> we know, shimon, and you've seen this probably more than anyone, the majority of fatalities happen in the first few seconds. certainly in the first minute or two. >> we heard more than 100 shots fired in under two minutes. >> just walking down now. the halligan tool is a pry tool. i've used it hundreds of times when i worked narcotics in

ripping gates off of doors and making forced entry. >> but was the door locked? >> it wasn't locked. but even if they didn't -- they didn't try the door. but it's logical to think that maybe you have to pry it open. now i don't know in that door opened out. it probably did. which means you have to pry it using a hammer against the door. you're going against the strength of the door. so you have to pry it. >> can i just tell you something. that in the hours after this happened and i was on the ground, these were the questions i was asking the dps, the department of public safety, texas dps, which was running this investigation and were the ones that were doing all the communications. and i kept asking them, was the door locked? how do you know the door wasn't locked? what kind of door was it? why couldn't they get in the door. and they kept saying well, maybe this and that. and then when you look at this video, they had all the answers. >> of course. >> they had all the answers hours after this happened, and they would not tell us the truth. >> and they wouldn't tell -- did

the families know the truth? that's what's infuriating i think for all of us here. we're sitting here. we are analyzing. we're evaluating. we're thinking about all the reasons it's important to play this in its totality, not snippets, not sound bites. but to actually have people walk through as it happened. the shooting at robb elementary that claimed so many lives. and it's not just those who have lost their lives. there are survivors who have an unbelievable road ahead of them. an unbelievable road ahead of them. psychological impact of this violence is unreal. >> but it's compounded. it's made worse by when they see this. when the kids, that i have to ask their mothers, why didn't the police come and help us? we heard them. they were outside our doors. why didn't they help us? >> why? >> listen, you see ballistic shields. you see kevlar helmets. you see level 3 and level 4 body armor on these people. i mean, they got long guns. they've got everything they need. right now they're just standing around. and how many of those people,

the 21 that died bled to death while, you know, they're standing around not getting in there? had they gotten medical attention, would they still be alive? >> we're going to talk than. they're doing some sort of triage in the area, building something. we're at an hour and four minutes. the last agonizing minutes before officers finally breach the classroom, it's coming up next. we'll be right back.

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we still haven't gotten that that final 77th minute in uvalde. during the commercial break we know police chief arredondo was attempting to negotiate with the shooter. finally, and i mean finally, we're going watch this to its conclusion. first of all, one of the things to think about here, how they're standing around. they're almost getting caught flat-footed. if he were to come out, what was going to happen? >> if he was to break out of that room, they would all be dead. they would be shooting each other and he would be shooting them. they're standing around in a lackadaisical way. you still have an active shooter inside of a classroom that you know is armed and armed with an assault weapon. >> a complete lack of discipline on the scene. a lack of organization. all that comes down from the fundamental failure of leadership. there is no leadership on the ground. there is no tactical leadership on this. >> here is the thing. everyone is here. >> we were just talking about this. it appears.

>> the guy in the black shirt with the stethoscope. >> he appears to be an emt. somehow he is the one that is commanding these officers where to go, where to stand. really bizarre. this is so bizarre and so painful. i know we keep saying this. but this is painful, painful to watch because we know the end result. >> and you were on the ground. and you were asking these questions immediately. they had this tape. they had the information. they knew what was going on. the emt is there presumably to prepare for those lives that they could actually save. and we know so many were lost even en route to the hospital. one of the things i want to point out here, thinking about is we have been learning and hearing for more than a month now about one name, arredondo. we have said repeatedly on our airwaves. who else would have been responsible? who else would have been a part of trying to create that tactical leadership? we have not gotten the names. we've heard about the notion of being an abject failure. they pointed to seriously the

arredondo team over everyone else. but logistic at all these different uniforms. this is not one cohesive unit. you guys, you look at this as law enforcement in particular. is it odd that they would all be deferring to somebody at the level of arredondo? where is there own individual agency leadership here? >> well, under incident command, which is the way they should be organized at this point in time. then these other agencies would actually be under the command of the person in charge in ics. that's why tabletop exercises is so important. when you bring people together and you work through scenarios. and that's the whole point of this. so yeah, you could bring in a variety of agencies, but if you're structured under incident command, then people know what their role. they know who is in charge, and who is in charge of what. >> that's right. >> there was no incident command. i went to a hearing when i was -- a few weeks ago when they were talking about school safety. and one of those leaders of this

committee, senior law enforcement official said there was no command, incident command inside. but there was no incident command outside either. so basically, no one was in charge. it was a free-for-all. >> yeah. a command post would have been established outside. >> of course. and that incident commander, which in this case would normally be arredondo, because he owns the turf. he is the school police chief. we are in a school. so by default he would be the incident commander. but he has the ability to delegate tactical command and things like that other people. once bor-tac arrives. >> what is that? >> border patrol swat team, heavily armed. you saw them coming in. it would almost be expect they'd would take over the tactical planning and the execution. >> you didn't even need to wait for them. if you look here, there is a dps, department of public safety, texas dps. they're there. they're already there. you can see him there just right there in the hallway hiding behind that wall. heavily armed.

he is wearing a helmet, a ballistic helmet. >> but let's get back to the original. we should never have gotten to this point. those first six officers should have gone in that room, suffered whatever return fire they got and taken out that killer first five minutes in, we're done. >> i have to remember because i remember very early on we saw one of the officers who had the vest on. you comment maybe he was a detective or somebody who was in the area. and he seems to hold the back of his head as if he had taken fire, maybe a graze in some way. he has another officer look at his head at one point to see if he had been injured. i had to think had the officer been changed, does the response change now one of their own has been hit? >> listen. and he would not have to be the person to go back right away. they had sufficient resources there. i mean, he was not incapacitated. he was not in capacitated. >> that's what i mean, had he been, would it have changed for the officers?

>> you prepare for that. there is a way to pull them out. >> you pull that officer to safety. you put him behind a position of cover and you go resume the fight. the bottom line is you have to address that threat. >> you know, thinking about -- the idea of pulling him out, look at this. i'm hearing a lot of talking unlike the early on. you guys are talking about the idea -- it was almost a radio silent at first, unless you heard the officer talking about his wife having been shot. there is chatter. they're having conversations in the hallway. wait, let's listen in. >> 15 feet right there .

>> heads up, heads up. everybody, heads up.

>> hold it! >> so much to talk about. we have seen the full video, every moment that we have. you have now seen as well. and we are going to talk about every aspect of it. but i first want to get a reaction from those who have seen it here at the table. what is your reaction after now having seen the full complete video as we have it? >> i don't know. it's very hard for me to watch. i've watched this video several

times. and each time it just gets -- honestly, it just gets harder and harder. and i wish we would never see this again. but it's going to be an important tool for law enforcement. it is. and it's going change, hopefully, and hopefully this never, ever happens again. i am -- one of the things that struck me at the end, there was an officer at the end there, the hall there to the right and how emotional he was, and they had to -- other officers had to restrain him. a and the other thing is i cannot even imagine when those doors open what those officers must have seen inside those classrooms. >> i agree. this is very difficult to watch. i mean, it's embarrassing to watch. we do have to take lessons from it, as hard as it is, that these things can happen. but my first reaction is a couple of things. number one, arredondo and the acting chief of uvalde that were there should never lead another agency at all, ever again.

and those officers who stood around while these kids were just dying, either being shot to death or just bleeding to death need to turn in their badges. because when a time comes to step up, that's part of the job. you got to step up. i know it's not easy. listen, i've been shot at. i've been in three shootings in my career. it is not a good feeling. there is nothing wrong with being afraid. it's what you do in that moment that makes the difference. they didn't step up. they let everybody down, including themselves. i don't know how they live with it. >> i agree with everything the commissioner said. you know, what we just witnessed was the inevitable result that should have happened an hour and a half earlier. and what i cannot get past, laura, is thinking about how many of those children, and the teachers died during that hour and a half that they were standing in the hall doing nothing. we will never know, but it's almost guaranteed that an earlier action could have saved

lives. >> i mean, i just am struck as a mom. i remember when i first learned that i was pregnant, and my father said congratulations. you will have your heart live outside of your body for the rest of your days. those are all of our children in those classrooms. and the mothers and fathers outside, they deserve better. we'll be right back. my name is ami and when i financed my car with carvana they had questions about my documents. but i was at work. in a mine. so carvana worked with my shift manager to get it all worked out. i was over the moon, even though i was underground. we'll drive you happy at carvana. this is john. he hasn't worked this hard to only get this far with his cholesterol. taken with a statin, leqvio can lower bad cholesterol and keep it low with two doses a year.

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for all the insight of this heartbreaking video out of uvalde about what unfolded that tragic day, worry left with more questions than answers. chief ramsey, i want to go to you on this. i remember when you and i were covering the derek chauvin trial, and one of the things you so poignantly said is the video of george floyd being killed would change the future of law enforcement and the way people are trained. >> right. >> you all have been in law enforcement and have had extraordinary careers. seeing what we've seen today, does this video become incorporated into the training of your officers going forward? >> i think it almost has to. i think it needs to be a reminder, why it's so important to take action and take action immediately, and not hesitate. not wait for some supervisor to tell you what the do. there is a reason why the training is what it is. and the training is good. they just didn't follow it.

but there is excellent training for active shooters that are being taught to law enforcement around the country. this is a perfect example of what not to do. and why it's so important that those fist few minutes when you arrive, that's when you have to step up, and you have to do what you have to do. is it risky? absolutely it's risky. could some of those officers been seriously wounded or even killed? yeah. but they had nor equipment and they had better protection than those kids and those teachers in that classroom. >> and they relinquished control essentially to the shooter by delaying all this time. he was able to do what he wanted to do. and you noted the idea of the power of the weather. we heard these gunshots. and for our viewers, likely that many people are hearing the power and the frequency and the ability of those weapons to be able to fire off that many rounds. tell me about the power of this topic of weapon. >> sure. so an ar-15 shoots a bullet that's a . .223 caliber rifle

round. that project exile exits the game at 3,000 feet per second. to put that in perspective, that's about three times faster than the bullet that normal police officers pistol would issue. so traveling at that velocity, the damage that that bullet can do to the human body, much less a fourth grader's body is just devastating. it's absolutely devastating. combine that with the fact that the ar-15 is a semiautomatic rifle which means you can fire the bullets as quickly as you can pull the trigger. there is no hesitation. there is no pulling the bolt back and manually loading the next round. that's why that weapon is so unbelievably devastatingly dangerous in a mass shooting situation. >> we also have to remind folks where this was happening. this is a small room. it's two classrooms kind of adjoined. there is no real place for these kids to defend themselves. so, you know, they're in this

classroom trapped. the gunman is firing at them. and not -- walking around. and this is graphic, but the kids were telling me that the parents of the kids that survived said that they would see teeth. saw teeth on the ground. from the gunshot and the wounds. there was so much blood. you talk about the smoke. the thing that the kids all remember is the smoke and the sound. the sound of the gunfire. and the one jaden who i interviewed, he said that he was under the desk hiding with his hands over his ears because of the noise that was coming from the rifle. and it was unbearable, so long to be trapped inside that room and just the gunshots and the gunshots kept coming. >> for so long. think about this. we watched the entirety of a 77-minute reign of terror on human lives while we watched officers who we dial 911.

the show began today as we were leading if from anderson, talking about the ability to have numbers to call if you wanted help. we know the number of 911. and they were on the scene. they weren't en route. they were there, ramsey. they were actually there. >> do you know the kids, for me, obviously i've spent a lot of time with the kids and the family. but they showed more courage than these officers. because you know what? they -- one of the things that the moms told me is that the kids that survived wished they could have helped their friends who died. and they cannot get over it. they tell their moms all the time if only. we wanted to help them. it's not -- it's all of them. the kids who survived have to live with that, knowing they wanted to help their friends. the police are outside. the police weren't helping. but we wanted to help. >> my first comment, and i want to end it this way too. this is not representative of policing in the united states. it just isn't. this -- there is no excuse for what they did. but i have seen too many officers put themselves at

harm's way with not even thinking about it. to look at this and then have people get the impression that this is now policing and this is how police are going to respond, active shooters or any other dangerous situation, just not true. >> andrew mccabe, charles ramsey, shimon prokupecz. we'll be back. thank you so much. and for all that you and i have seen tonight, some have seen even more. the state senator represents uvalde is among the many still demanding answers, is going to join me next.

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the texas house committee investigating the uvalde school massacre plans to officially release the full 77-minute surveillance video that we showed you tonight on sunday. along with a report to victims' families. and as the community continues

to grieve, it's also trying to figure out how to keep another tragedy like this from happening ever again. i want to bring in texas state senator roland gutierrez, whose district includes uvalde. i'm very glad you're here, senator. i have to ask you, you and i have had a conversation in the past. i have been following what you have been doing, demanding the answers. this video unbelievable to watch. you were a proponent of making sure people saw it in full because you understood the need for people to fully understand just what happened here. what is your reaction to this video, these moments? 77 of them. >> well, laura, like everybody that's seen this, just absolutely shocking, disgusting what we saw. however, there is still a lot that we haven't seen. this house committee interviewed 20 law enforcement witnesses, 17

civilian witnesses. that's it. there was 360 cops on the scene. 91 from the department of public safety. 12 of them were in that hallway. 12 dps troopers. and yet they're not on that video. you have 19 other body cams in that room, and yet we only get to see one. we didn't get to see the body cam that was right outside of that room where he sheltered himself in with the kids when he shot back at the first seven officers. i saw this after the first week when i got in an argument with the bio officer at dps. i went in to their trailer, spoke to him, shut the door behind me. and in front of me was nine texas rangers viewing this video until i was discovered and asked to leave. >> a week after you saw this? >> i saw this. i saw a body cam, camera. and you see sheetrock flying through at the officers as they

are huddling to try to take cover. that is the very extreme power of this type of weaponry. and make no mistake, as strong and as powerful as that weaponry is, these officers failed in their mission. they failed in their training on what they're supposed to do in an active shooter situation. >> you know, we were watching and thinking about all the different uniforms we saw, all the different agencies represented. and you mentioned more than 300 officers collectively on the scene. we saw just a select view of them. i want to play for you what colonel mcgraw had to say. he is a colonel with the texas department of public safety, and they report directly to the governor. he is speaking to the legislature and describing what he called, well, the response an abject failure. here he is. >> there is compelling evidence that the law enforcement response to the attack at robb elementary was an abject failure

three minutes after the subjects entered the west building, there was sufficient number of armed officers wearing body armor to isolate, distract and neutralize the subject. >> now we're hearing a lot about the name chief arredondo and his comment about abject failure seemed to be focused quite specifically on a certain agency, not the overall number of agencies there. who do you think we need to get answers from? and why are we only hearing about one person? it seems to me the 300 officers or so on the scene have a lot of explaining to do. >> i think steve mccraw needs to look in the mirror when he talks about abject failure. it was eight different law enforcement agencies just walking around, milling around, waiting what to do. not one radio worked inside that building. they were all on their phones. i'm not talking about the gentleman that was texting his wife as she unfortunately succumbed. i'm talking about everybody else that was on their phones.

those phones weren't working because they just were inoperable in there. we can get into that story of neglect down the road. but there was one officer, and if you look at the back of his vest, he was being followed around by the body cam officer. both of those were state employees that one officer on the back of his vest, it said texas ranger. and that texas ranger spent most of his time walking around that building, walking in that hallway, talking to someone. so someone was telling him what to do. who was that person? i filed a lawsuit, my office will be in court to get the rest of the material that we've asked for so that we can get to the bottom of what happened here. because i fear what's happened in this 77-minute video just opens more questions than answers. >> state senator roland gutierrez, thank you. we'll keep an eye on that particular lawsuit as well. the answers are deserved for the families. back with some final thoughts in just a moment, next. thank you.

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the question people have i know of course, our thoughts are on these families. this coming sunday was supposed to be first day that they would have actually seen this full video. it was released earlier this week. we're just now planning it now as well. what was the family's reaction to having it already played? and what's going to happen this sunday now? >> they're really upset. this sunday they're going have the legislators who are doing the investigation come in and take questions. i don't know how many family members are going to show up. they're so angry over how all of

this has transpired, certainly this week with the video. one to have suffers, the kids, jaden that i spoke to, i think his bravery and his words of wisdom in some ways, and just talking about what happen kind of sums up i think the way people there are kind of feeling. listen to how he talks about that day. >> me and my friend were scared. and we covered our ears so we won't hear the gunshots. >> you covered your ears .

>> and this is a deeply religious community. faith has really been helping them. and, you know, you talk about answers. i think they're going to get them. i really do. i think the mayor there in you valid, he has taken a lot of heat. i do believe he has turned on all of this. and he really wants to fight and get information out. but he is being handcuffed by the district attorney there. and he is concerned about releasing information. he is afraid something is going to happen to him in the end. i have faith and i know the truth is going to come out. we'll get everything we asked for. we're going to continue to fight. the families are going to continue to fight. we're going to get the answers. >> we have to. there is no alternative. the idea of this happening again, i'm just thinking about the parents. what we're hearing, what we

heard for 77 minutes, these are people's children who were waiting. thank you, shimon, for all thatc stay tuned. the news continues here on cnni. well, almost perfect. my place is too small; your place is too far. selling them means repairs, listings, cleanings. what's the market even like? this could take like... forever! or... more like days. skip the hassles and sell directly to opendoor. done. yes! oh yes. when life's doors open, we'll handle the house.

all right. hello and welcome to our viewers joining us in the united states and around the world. i'm becky anderson joining you live from jeddah in saudi arabia, where we are following reaction after president joe biden's cordial and controversial fist bump with the saudi crown prince. s. >> and i'm kim brunhuber live at cnn center in atlanta following our other top stories including the crisis in haiti, where gang violence cripples the nation as thousands are trapped without food o