legacy and what he stands for. get in good trouble and follow his footsteps. that's my goal. >> thank you to tybree and thank you for spending your sunday morning with us. the news continues right now. this is "gps" the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria coming to you live. today on the program, joe biden's first trip to the middle east as president. what was accomplished, what was left on the table, i'll ask an expert. then. >> mr. president. >> i sit down with one of the most respected leaders of the region. iraq's president on america's new push into the middle east. and as finland waits for its

nato application to be ratified, it is making preparations for the border with russia. i will talk to the foreign finish minister what he thinks putin's next move will be. but first, here is my take. ron desantis emailed me and hundreds of thousands of others i imagine. our country is currently facing a great threat he began. i assume that with inflation soaring, gas prices still sky high and the economy in danger of slowing down, he would hit hard on those themes. but these bread and butter issues were not mentioned anywhere in the email. a new enemy has emerged from the shadows that seeks to destroy and intimidate their way to transform the state and country you and i would hardly recognize. as you might by now have guessed, this enemy is the

radical enemy vigilante. some of this is a clever effort to tap into the base of the republican party and out flank donald trump on the kinds of issues that propelled trump into the republican nomination in 2016. and the reason new hampshire poll of likely republican primary voters that had desantis neck and neck with trump should worry, donald. the florida governor has much less name recognition than trump and yet, in a bellwether state, the floridian has caught up. but it also reflects the looming electoral strategy among republicans who believe they have found a deep vulnerability among democrats. a recent comprehensive "new york times" poll seemed to confirm this view. analyzing some of the findings of the poll, it was wrote many democrats both politicians and voters especially on the party's left flank see more focus on

decisive cultural issues than most americans everyday concerns like inflation. to be fair, president biden still beats donald trump in a head-to-head matchup but that dynamic might not help the democrats in the midterm elections when trump is not on the ballot. there is plenty of evidence the democratic party has moved left, that it is out of sync with americans on many cultural issues and needs to correct course. but it needs to do so clearly and forcefully and repeatedly. republicans are clever at weaponizing the words of a few left wing democrats and then branding them as the face of the party. for example, i've not found a single senior national democratic leader who has ever endorpsed the idea of defending the police. biden actually proposed increasing funding for cops and yet, republicans have repeated this mantra constantly. democrats need to learn how to fight back for example, by

highlighting the most extreme abortion bans passed in republican states and branding the republican party with them. in oklahoma, abortions are now banned with very few exceptions from the moment after conception on wards. in mississippi, a doctor could face ten years in prison for performing an illegal abortion. yet, democrats have another big weak spot and it centers on performance. democrats in power often seem unable to get anything done. democrats squabble more and more in public than republicans despite the fact that much of the gshop party establishment despised donald trump. once elected, they fell align and passed his agenda and supported him unfailingly. democrats rarely remind the public of the two big bills they did pass, covid relief and infrastructure and spent months bickering over the third one,

build back better. why is the biden administration not announcing large new public work projects every week financed by the federal funds appropriated in those two bills? the answer to that question might be it's become very difficult to build anything in america especially in blue states. president obama who passed another big infrastructure bill in 2009 famously said later there is no such thing as shovel ready projects. that's because as noted, the number of permits reviews, and delays that have become part of the normal approval process have massively delayed or doomed the prospects of large scale public works in america. democrats have become paralyzed by their own ideas and interest groups and no one seems to be able to breakthrough and actually get things done. there is not a shortage of money. consider the state i live, new york.

the budget is an eye popping $220 billion. florida with 2 million more people than new york state spends half that sum. in addition, new york city's budget is $100 billion. that is more than double the budget for the entire state of illinois and illinois's population is some 50% larger. new york is the most heavily taxed state in the country. its tax rates are highly progressive. the top 1% of new york city residents pay over 40% of the city's income taxes and yet, new york's infrastructure and services at every level are in bad shape. this is not a presumption pro -- perception problem. it's a reality problem. democrats need to become the party that gets things done, builds things and makes government work for people. go to cnn.com/fareed for a link to my washington post column this week. and let's get started.

president biden was wheels up from saudi arabia 24 hours ago and president putin will be wheels down in tehran gotwo day from now. the white house gathered intelligence iran is preparing to provide russia with hundreds of drones for use on the war in ukraine. iran denies this allegation. the big question is are the new cold war battle lines being solidified in the middle east? to understand more about washington's reset with moscow's relationship with tie rehran, it to bring in valy. first, tell us about this drone business. is russia in a kind of alliance with iran? is iran helping the russians

out? >> well, iran and russia have had very strong military and intelligence relationship that goes back to syria but this is the first time that we're hearing of a large scale iranian military equipment being sold to russia. so this is a new step but it really under scores the fact that the relationship between them is strong and it's mostly in the intelligence and military field and does matter to regional balance of power. >> now, i am struck by one thing. it does suggest that despite all the sanctions, the iranians are still able to manufacture something as, you know, reasonably fasophisticated as hh quality drones. >> that's exactly the case. we don't know much about these drones and how good they are but in fact, it's very ironic that it's the white house that it's advertising this fact in the middle east. maybe they were hoping to by

lumping iran and russia around ukraine to create a crater dissatisfaction with iran and europe but in the middle east, the united states is attesting to iran's technology capability of having weaponry that the russians would be interested in. >> and what about the biden trip? from your point of view, does it seem like the part of the trip that was intended to solidify a kind of saudi arabia, israel, ue access that was proamerican and, you know, to a certain extent anti iranian. is that working? >> it is not working the way in which united states and israel would like to portray it as if that there is a very hard and fast, you know, fault line in the middle east between arabs and iranians. first of all, putin's visit to

tehran show there is are other big powers in the region and the united states is not the only player and russia has very deep relationships around oil and energy with uae and with saudi arabia. secondly, not only the arabs the president met are sold on the idea of lining up against tie ran -- tehran and working very hard to make it work and even the president himself was not willing to say that jcpoa is dead. the picture is much more complicated in the sense ua and saudi arabia are talking to iran and considering opening the embassy and the saudis in dialogue with iran. this is not quite the cold war that the president and the israeli prime minister try to portray in their joint press conference in jerusalem but yes, there is a serious arab iranian issue still at play in the region.

>> but as you say, i've heard this from other sources in the middle east, as well, the real -- the new story is that the saudis are talking to the iranians, i think largely through iraq. the uae is talking to iran. there seems to be an effort to create some kind of new motive between iran and saudi arabia and other gulf states to diffusion the tensions. >> that's indeed the case. the president tried to take credit in his speech in saudi arabia that there is now a seize fire in yemen. that seize fire actually owes a lot to the iranian saudi dialogue that's on going and it's very clear that the arabs want protection against iraq but they don't want the kind of aggressive policies that for instance, israel is following with iran that could risk a war. i think they've made a decision that the united states is not going to go to war with iran. the united states is not focused

on ukraine and on china and one of the ways of managing iran is actually to lower the temperature with iran. this does not mean peace is in the air but the saudis and uae definitely are interested in a less aggressive posture with iran and that's very different from the way the israelis are pushing from a much more aggressive position where the prime minister of israel said we should put credible military options on the table against iran. i don't think saudi arabia and the uae are there. >> what about the other global power these days, china? china buys much of the oil from the middle east but busy cultivating relations with the same gulf states, as well, has it not? >> it has. it's also cultivating relations with turkey and iran, as well and its relationship actually with the gulf state is of nature that makes a tight american

israeli relationship with these countries problematic. in other words, the chinese are building the telecom infrastructure in uae and embedded in some military basis and military systems in uae and that makes it very difficult for the united states to sort of think of the persian the gulf the way it used to be under bush, clinton, et cetera of very pristine american military technology territory. and so it's not just about iran in this region, it's about how the united states actually makes sure that these arab countries don't develop sort of pourrous borders when it comes to military situations. >> that's a very complicated new middle east, sometimes called a most american middle east. pleasure to have you on. >> thank you. next on "gps" more on biden's middle east push. i will talk to the president of iraq about mohammed bin salman,

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so, how is iraq fairing today? and what is america's current relationship with the other major countries of the middle east? who better to ask than ba barham salih, the president of iraq. lovely to have you again. >> thank you for having me, fareed. >> president biden going to saudi arabia almost shaking hands with mbs, fist bumping. what it the right thing to do to mend fences? >> obviously, saudi arabia is a very important country in the middle east and the united states is also a major global power and this relationship needed to be brought to a better standing and i'm sure this is an opportunity to speak to the issues. >> you know you're very well schooled in the ways of the west, the values of the west. a lot of people feel that, you know, mbs because of the murder of khashoggi and things like

that, that biden shouldn't have done this, that, you know, it was compromising american human rights. what do you say to those people? >> look, at the end of the day, nations act upon their interest, values remain important and critical and i'm sure human rights remain very, very important aspect to any nation that respects itself. at the end of the day, there is a much much bigger story that is out there and saudi arabia is an important player and to be fair, the saudi government at the moment is engaged in a significant program of modernization that needs to be watched closely and needs to be appreciated for its implications for the wider neighborhood. >> talk about that. you do think that what mbs is doing -- >> is quite impressive in terms of the modernization he's bringing about to saudi arabia and taking on some of the extremist elements, the tests,

essen essentially being in reign for so many years. >> saudi arabia's foreign policy had been quite active even before mbs and particularly toward iraq after the american intervention, the saudis sort of treated iraq as if it was an iranian client state. they were not very welcoming and friendly. has that changed under mshbs? >> i think iraq changed and been projecting itself and its values to our entire neighborhood. this is not about a zero sum game. iran is our neighbor. we have vital national interests in developing good relations with iran. we don't want to go back to the days of saddam hussein where we are at war with our neighbor. we fought eight years, iraqis committed to this war and have to fight with our blood and treasure on behalf of others. we won't do that again. by the same arabia

is an important neighbor of iraq. it's within our interest to develop the arain death. saudi arabia is an important part of that domain and i hope that iraq by virtue of politics will really play that role as a balance in the neighborhood. we do not want to be a staging ground for offending, threatening the national security of any of our neighbors but by the same token, we don't want them interfering in the first sovereign stable iraq should be the common interest of our neighborhood. >> iraq at this point given what is happening in tunisia, the only arab nation in democracy. is it a stable democracy? >> democracy by nature is messy and difficult. and we've had elections eight, nine months ago.

we've not been able to bring to the a closure and establish a new government. iraqi political actors have been engaged in all kinds of legal maneuvering through our supreme court. it is disappointing that we have not been able to bring it to a closure but we are trying hard. we're not fighting it in the streets but the legal parliamentary system that we have and i very much hope that it is yet to be deep rooted but iraqi democracy has something to offer our neighborhood. remember, iraq was dominated by a autocracy and tyranny for decades and that experienced nation, experiencing terrorists on slots day in and day out for the last 20 years so committed to at least the parameters of a constitutional democratic process with all the frustrations it poses.

i will take that over dictatorship and tyranny any day. when we come back, president biden has been trying to convince israel and saudi arabia that the region would be better off if iran were back in the nuclear deal. what does president salih think and how dangerous are the tensions between iran and israel? discover theratears®. like no other dry-eye drop in the world. with the 5 vital electrolytes found in natural tears, theratears® i one-of-a-kind hydration that feels like silk. theratears®. a drop like no other™.

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we are back here on "gps" with more of my interview with iraq's president barham salih talking about iran and the rest

of the region. >> one of the things president biden was trying to do in the trip, i think, was find a way to have a better understanding of what to do about iran and i think he was trying to convince him particularly the israelis and saudis that it actually makes sense for iran to go and the united states to go back into the iran nuclear deal and put limits on iran's nuclear program. do you think president biden is right? should we all be trying to get that deal put back together? >> iran is a major, major actor in that part of the world and for me in iraq, we have long borders with iran. we have all kinds of interaction, social, cultural and common security interest. this is a consequence to us and the widen region and the world. there is no military solutions to these. we need a diplomatic closure to the stalemate. we need a security arrangement

in the middle east where we can come together to combat terrorism, which is remaining a major problem. look at where syria is, north were syria, the militants that exist and take base in syria that still pose a real threat to the stability, not just the middle east but also the wider world compare that to afghanistan in 2001 where human in remote case of afghanistan could manage to pull off that terrible attack on september 11th and now we're talking about thousands and thousands of militants well equipped, well trained in the heartland of the urban middle east. it's a danger. we need to bring the neighborhood together as part of a common acrerchitecture to pus back but attend to the

fundamental challenges the middle east is facing, jobs, economic challenges that we are faced with, the terrible, terrible climate changes that are affecting the entire neighborhood. >> but let me translate what i think you're saying, which is yes, we should have a nuclear deal but more than that. >> of course. >> you are talking about -- >> an integration of our part of the world. >> and kind of reconciliation. >> indeed, indeed. absolutely. by the way, on that count, iraq is playing a very important role in trying to mediate between the saudis and the iranians that have been a number of conversations that have taken place in baghdad between iran and other arab neighbors and there are some important atmospheres that have improved. at the end of the day. we need to sit down at the same table and talk about the problems that are of consequence to our own constituents at the end of the day, yes, america

matters, yes, the world matters but also, our own priorities in our part of the world matter. >> but this is not where things are, mr. president. right now saudi arabia is making an alliance with israel. the uae has made an open alliance and that is more like old containment strategy of two wars at camp. >> if you go back to history, this is a recipe of repeating the terrible, terrible tragedies of the past this part of the world can't go on like this. we're blessed with having oil but we also have very, very serious challenges economic and social challenges. we need infrastructure that can connect our economies together. we need common action against climate change. iraq cannot do it alone, saudi arabia cannot do it alone. iran can't do it alone. the turks can't do it alone.

the city has to be brought back into the fold and we need to find a way by which we get city out of -- syria out of the mess it's in today it's been in for so long. we're focused on the headlines of interstate rivalries between iran, saudis, this and that and at the end of the day, there are really big, big challenges confronting each and every state in that part of the world. we don't want to go back to the days of the past where we are part of access against another. we did that and we paid dearly for it. we have too many priorities to do that again. >> why are you of testiptimisti? >> i'm a realest. we have many, many challenges and many, many difficulties that life will try to make happen. i believe our part of the world has many resources, is blessed and endowed with good natural

resources but above all, also we have good, good people, talented people who deserve a better way of life and they can do it. and you see a lot of developments in our part of the world. yes, it's messy, yes, confusing as i was explaining to you about i iraq. i'm not telling you that iraqi is fantastic. it's absolutely not. iraqis deserve a lot better than what we have today but at the end of the day, the kind of debate that we have in baghdad about making life better for iraqis, changing the political system, improving reforming gives me hope that we can do better and you have to try. we have been blessed with an opportunity and we should not squander it. we have to try it. >> mr. president, thank you my friend. next on "gps," from one of the last big wars to the current one, i will talk to the foreign

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12 days ago representatives from the 30 nato countries signed the protocols to expand the alliance to 32 nations. finland and sweden, those nations were spurred to apply for membership by russia's invasion of ukraine. for its part, finland shares a border with russia some 800 miles long. i talked this week with finland's foreign minister about

russia, nato and the war on ukraine. mr. foreign minister, thank you for joining us. >> thank you. >> first, let me ask you, is your application for nato membership now accepted? the turks did sign a memorandum. do you think it's on its way? >> it will be signed during the nato summit. the understanding with turkey, with sweden, apartheid so i think we are just fulfilling everything that has been agreed on that and it should go on and of course, we're in a situation that rapidly many nato countries r ratified so we're very pleased of that. >> meanwhile, what is happening with russia? have, you know, putin reacted very negatively, the president had called him and told him? has russia's on going reaction been? has there been one? >> it's been concentrated if new

weaponry will come to finland, if in our defense plan something that they feel threatening might appear, then they react and so forth but our reading is that they concentrate now very much on ukraine and our border 800 miles between finland and russia normally. so they are now additional tensions between finland and russia. >> what is your sense of what is going on in russia's invasion of ukraine? are they gaining ground? are they losing too many men? what is your reading? >> many people say russia has a huge resilience, they can produce material. they can send men in this kind of conflict they don't easily step back and so forth. so this is of course, you can expect that this conflict can be a long one and we should prepare for a long conflict. at the same time, of course, the western powers, u.s., european union has been strengthening

ukraine quite a lot and sending military material and supporting economically and so forth. >> do you think that the european union will be able to hold firm on the economic sanctions against russia? >> i think the european union economic sanction packages have been working well so far. but of course, then we come to the more sensitive areas, oil, this is oil already so that we are to make some exceptions with hungary and so forth and with the gas. it's quite difficult to make a unified sanction. this is -- but of course, it's also true that when the sanctions are established, they come full force step by step affecting russian economic not only advantage but in that sense they are very effective. >> you think europeans will stay? it will be a cold winter. gas prices are going to be very

high. do you worry countries like italy and germany will find it very hard to maintain unity? >> there are countries who are still too dependent on russian energy, russian gas particularly and at the same time, overcoovercf course, we try to make decisions on europe. we have finland making l and g not using russian gas but l and g tankers and buy plant for l and g and increasing out nuclear capacity and so forth. europe is at the front of new energy. >> there are people that say what is going to happen is it's a long war as you say. russia has been able to maintain and expand its control and putin is waiting. he's waiting for the gas prices to get higher, for the pain to be felt more deeply and then at some point, he will offer to negotiate and that the europeans will then put pressure on president zelenskyy and say you

got to take this deal because we need you to -- we need this to end. >> there was at the beginning of the russian war against ukraine, this before the human rights violations that countries like turkey offered some mediation and table some proposals but i think the mood also in ukraine changed towards very bitter after the last human rights violations by the russian military and of course, it's clear at some moment the war will end but i think it's also very clear we have to maintain our support to ukraine as long as needed and it's up to ukraine then to decide what is the right moment for negotiations. >> how do you imagine relations with russia will be going forward in the longer term because you have an 800-mile border with this country.

it's difficult to see a russia under putin being easily reaccepted into the european and, you know, international fold sanctions being completely lifted because they're not going to get out of crimea. they're not going to get out of certainly some parts of the donbas. is russia now isolated for decades? >> from the finished perspective, everything always russia with 100 years perspective. we look 100-year backwards, it's a hard time. it's -- [speaking foreign lang language]. we see it's been going back and forth isolation or towards the western model and when we think 100 years in front of us, it might be the same there are moments russia is isolated and there will be moments russia is more democratic and our task is to support those moments and

forces so inside russia looking more cooperation with europe and many young people, young generation and intellectual people in the country who suffer of this current situation. >> but right now, they seem very much in the minority? >> right now, they are probably minority but of course, the influence of the war, russians losing life and getting injured, this effective war are coming step by step to the consis tans of russian population, as well. >> mr. foreign minister, pleasure to have you on. >> thank you, my pleasure. next on "gps" there is a staggering $1.7 trillion of student loan debt outstanding in america. there is a lot of talk about what president biden should and shouldn't do about it. should he forgive all of it, some of it, none of it? i'll give you my nothoughts in moment.

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now for the last look, as americans seethe over high prices, it's worth remembering ininau inflation was at the heart of populism of america, not donald trump or bernie sanders but 1890s, the people's party. the populous party. they weren't complaining about inflation, it was something they desperately wanted. the u.s., you see, was going through a period of deflation from 1870 to 1890, prices fell by a cumulative 30% or 2% a year. that may sound like a good thing in today's environment, but deflation can cause all kinds of problems. one group negatively impacted, people in debt. think of a farmer getting fewer dollars for his crops every year but still on the hook for fixed mortgage payments. this dynamic contributed to the

forming of the populous party and to one of its central it abandoned the gold standard and adds silver to the money supply. the idea is get more money into circulation and drive inflation up. that's good for debtors and bad for creditors. the populous found a tribune in democratic presidential president brian. he railed against the gold standard as a tool of greedy capitalists. >> you defy man kind for a pot of gold. >> today there is a new interest group calling for debt relief. americans with student loans, president biden says he's close to a decision on forgiving their loans. according to the washington post, the president seems inclined to cancel $10,000 worth of debt per borrower, excludeing individuals that make more than $150,000 a year.

chuck schumer and elizabeth warren want him to cancel $50,000. the most extreme proposal by bernie sanders is eliminate all student debt in the country that amounts to $1.7 trillion. >> if we can give tax breaks to billionaires, you know what we can do? we can cancel all student debt in this country. >> but in a reverse of the 19th century, today's inflation is already giving debt relief to these borrowers. outstanding student debt after adjusting for inflation is declining. most student loans have fixed interest rates. now, inflation, price increases doesn't directly erase debt but it does indirectly when inflation drives up wages. as people are facing higher prices, they can demand higher wages and indeed, as of march, workers earnings were up 4.7% from last year, the fastest growth in almost 40 years. of course, they are also

reckoning with higher everyday costs. but most student loan debts remain the same. so this doesn't seem like the time for massive student debt forgiveness. the policy would also be quite regressive benefitting higher income earners more than lower income americans. people take out student loans because getting a degree will help them earn more. granted that doesn't always pan out. but if washington is going to embark on more big spending, tax credits for all americans at lower income levels would make much more sense. also, forgiving loans would only encourage colleges to keep raising tuition costs, which have risen 2.5 times faster than inflation over the last two decades. biden's anticipated student debt plan, which is the least generous one on the table a appears to be the most popular one among the public, yet populous on his left flank are

calling id inadequate and demanding more. do democrats want to embrace the character of being the party of over educated elites who want special favors? it's worth considering what happened to the populous party of the 19th century. their man william jennings brian lost to william mcelckinley in election of 1886. he did the opposite of what the populous wanted. he strengthened the gold standered and won again in 1900. brian lost again in 1908. a reminder that populism is not always popular. thanks ss to all of you for be part of my program this week. i'll see you next week. don't forget, if you miss a show, go to cnn.com/fareed.

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hey, i'm brian stelter live in new york and this is "reliable sources." we examine the story behind the story and figure out what is reliable. in a few hours, a report coming out of texas. what happened, what really happened in that school in uvalde. we're going to hear answers. we're also going to get into what still needs to be revealed by authorities. plus, the media talking about potential rematches in 2024. the voters are telling pollsters they want nothing of it. we're going to show you the numbers and why they matter and later, we'll try to go into the future. talking about the meta verse, what it could be. expert matthew ball is here sharing his findings about what could be a 3 d internet. we have a lot coming up. first, you know, it's been, let's think about it, in the