good evening we begin with breaking news in the january six investigation where the attorney general himself just called it the largest probe in history. it's on the breaking news, perhaps the highest reaching probe as well. new reporting in the washington post citing for people familiar with the investigation. the headline, justice department investigating trump's actions in this probe.

according to one passage, the prosecutors have hours of detailed questions in meetings trump held in december 2020, and 2021. his pressure her pranced overturn the election, and what trump told his lawyers in electors, and sending the election -- again this is the same day that the attorney general speaks out. and the former president returned to washington since the first time since leaving office. and what's male kyle told nbc's lester holt when the president again might tear the country apart. >> we pursue justice without fear or favor. we attend to hold anyone who was criminally responsible for the events surviving january 6th and any attempt to interfere with the lawful transfer of power from any administration from one to

another accountable. that is what we do. we don't pay any attention to other issues with respect to that. >> so if donald trump were to become a candidate for president again, that would not change a schedule. or how you move forward or move forward? >> i'll say again, that we will hold accountable anyone who is criminally responsible for attempting to interfere with the transfer, legitimate lawful transfer of power from one administration to the next. >> as you see the attorney general vowed to hold accountable anybody who interfered with a transfer of power, suggesting that they could be looking at any number of suspects. justin is on the line with the story. cnn has some reporting earlier today, josh, but your goes deeper narrowing in on the presidents actions with specific questions being asked by january 6th investigators. as well as phone locks being seized. what more can you tell? as >> well as you know, in the

grand jury that is going on here in washington, federal prosecutors have been presenting evidence about what former president was doing in the weeks leading up to january 6th. who he was leaving with, wet rioters he had around him, and advised president pence and his aides on questioning witnesses in detail about the activities. which shows us, and looking at the former president of his behavior and his conduct and we don't know how it will end but they certainly are deeply interested in what he was doing. we also knew that a few months ago they subpoenaed form records for the chief of staff mark meadows and his aides and what we really see that happening here is you have prosecutors, who are first we're letting rioters in the capital. looking at these militant groups, some of these outside folks. and they're really honing and now more on what the former

president and his lawyers did in the days leading up to january six. >> you're reporting talks about two specific tracks that the investigation is looking into? >> yes, >> he'll get tired of saying just. there are really trying to figure out in the fake electors scheme and whether the former president instructed his lawyers to then carry out what was or wasn't. and then obviously obstructing a government proceeding at the capitol on january 6th. but what they are trying to figure out, a lot of these elements are just, what exactly was the presidents world? did you have these lawyers, john eastman, rudy giuliani, other outside advisers doing them on their own or was the former presidents intimately involved. and the days leading up to january six, the former president was orchestrating all sorts of pressure on vice president mike pence to overturn the election. in recent days that january 6th investigation has focused on this.

and to buy former vice president pence's chief of staff and his lawyer. trying to understand all the aspects of that pressure campaign. >> in terms of timeline, do you know how fast the investigation is moving? is it possible the former president could be subpoenaed himself with that actually take place? >> it's certainly possible that they could subpoena folks moreover, they could try to get records from him. phones from him. obviously there could be some challenges there. we don't know how fast this is moving. from by some accounts it has appeared publicly, the doj has been behind the january six committee, the parts at least. there were multiple reports that they were surprised. at cassidy hutchinson's testimony. for example. and some of the outside rioters, and militant figures, because it seems like just from what we know publicly, and our sourcing, now that they have a little bit more evidence they are coming in to the former president and his circle.

>> appreciate it. now cnn legal atlas jennifer rodgers, also cnn anchor, chris wallace. jennifer, first of, all the idea that you and i were talking about this before. it's unlikely they would subpoena the former president if he was a target. >> for testimony of course they could still try to get documents but they won't subpoena for him for testimony. but he is a target. for one, you don't subpoena a target. for two, he's just gonna plead the fifth. because you know that the target. and you have the happenstance where you have to give immunity to force him to testify and they're not gonna do that. >> so what do you make of the washington post reporting tonight where the department of justice is so far? >> i think it is really notable that they have this attention to the pence pressure campaign because that is one area that we know the president was directly involved. he was really the prime mover in trying to force pence to do this for him. so that means that they're focusing in on trump and his conduct, as opposed to the people around him who were

operationally running the fake elector scheme, for example. >> and chris, to jennifer's point, the prosecutors in this case focusing on a former president's pressure campaign. garland made a nod to that as well? >> yeah, it seems to me, anderson, that one, and most importantly, the justice department seems to be on the case, but secondly that they want to be seen, as being on the case because there has been a lot of pressure on garland, and justice that they seem to be lacking behind the january six committee. they seem to be lagging behind that da in atlanta, who's pursuing her own case about georgia. and interference with the election there. so you have a couple of things, on monday we found out that they had a grand jury. that hat they had heard testimony from two top aides to mike pence, mark showed, his chief of staff. and his counsel. and the attorney general agreeing to do the interview today. and twice in the interview, he

said we are moving urgently. and one other thing i noted in josh towards the story in the washington post, in the breaking tonight, that it specifically says that they seized the records of mark meadows phone records, of him and other people, and specifically said they did it in april, months before the january six committee, so clearly somebody in justice from merrick garland on down is trying to say, we are hot on this case. don't think that we are lagging behind. >> jennifer, on the other track. the phony electors. obviously the question of how involved the was the former president in that. was his attorney eastman, and rudy giuliani doing this largely on their own? how much are they able to get the records of the giuliani, records of these men. >> so it's really hard to know from just phone records, who is talking to whom for how much time. what was said. and in order to get to how much the former president knew about that scheme. how much he was directing it as

opposed to being updated by it. they're really going to have to get someone who is dealing directly with him to testify. so that probably means giving one of these people immunity, ultimately, so they can talk about the conversations where trump is being updated. or maybe he was actually running the show. we don't know. we know he knew about the scheme, but we don't know how involved he was. >> things like attorney client privilege. how does that play and department of justice with somebody like eastman? >> it's aware that they're seizing documents that might have communications with trump. to the extent where they would seek testimony that involves communications. they will have to sort through that. there is a crime fraud exception. so if the communication is for the purpose of furthering a crime, or a fraud, where the doj would argue it was. they can see that material. but it all takes time, it takes the judge to rule on whether it was, whether it wasn't, to get through all those privilege issues. >> i want to get to whether attorney general said tonight when he was asked about criticism. >> the reason that there is

this speculation, and uncertainly, is that some of what we do as our prosecutors and investigators, is to do it outside of the public eye. we do that for two important reasons, one to protect the civil liberties of people that we are investigation, and second is to ensure the success and integrity of our investigation. >> it's crucial to say that the attorney general is trying to convey to the general public, but january six specifically. >> yeah, clearly he is feeling some heat, and they are trying to say. i mean, he says we are doing outside of the eye of the public. but there have been a lot of leaks of information. just from what we've heard about who is testifying before the grand journey, like marc short, the story in the washington post. but tonight, they're trying to say on the one hand we are doing outside of the public, but on the other hand, we're also gonna give some information to the public. to try to get the heat office. we was also asked by lester garland in the interview that,

how much are you getting information from the january six committee? and he said they are doing the biggest investigation and one of the biggest in-house history. we are doing the biggest investigation in justice department history. and we may have some information that they don't have. we may have some information that they don't have. and they are hoping to huber all of that up. but having said all of that anderson, one of the articles that i was reading today made the point. no former president in our history has ever been charged with a crime. so, even, regardless of what information they get out there. and there's a lot of evidence that trump was directly involved. remember in hearing this that he told one of the people in the justice department. just say there was a problem with the election, leave the rest to me. and republican congressman. so there's a lot of people who say trump is directly involved. but going ahead and charging a former president with a crime, he is absolutely uncharted territory. >> not only a former president,

a former president who, made by the time this comes around, actually be running again. >> yeah that's a political issue. and certainly the timing of elections is something the doj pays attention to. but it's certainly not a bar. they can charge a political candidate was something. merrick garland made clear today that they are looking at trump, that they will do it with needs to be done. >> jennifer, chris as well. respect with mulvaney that served as acting chief of staff and former -- former ireland. he was signed from the administration because of january 6th. >> mr. mulvaney, i'm wondering what you make of what's attorney general garland had to say tonight. do you think he offered any insight into what the justice department might indict the former president? >> not really. thanks for having me. i was really pleased with what he said. i think most americans would be. that chief law enforcement officer of the united states, there go about things deliberately. and without concern for politics. that's what i would want them to say on any particular

investigation into any crime, committed possibly by any person in the country. that's what we want, when it comes to law enforcement. i think if there's anything that gives some insight into what is happening though, it is not what merrick garland said this evening. it is the fact that mark short was called into a federal grand jury on a subpoena on tuesday. that -- and >> and mr. jacobs as well. >> that's correct. and that tells me a lot more of what's happening than what is happening with merrick garland. >> the attorney general investigating the legitimate transfer of power, did you interpret that as looking just beyond january 6th? >> yeah the, simple fact that the chief of council. the chief loyal for the vice presidents that was called in. because we know now, with the work of the january six committee has done, that there were a lot of discussions with the lawyers in the period of time between the election and january six. so the simple fact that, mike pence's lawyer was subpoenaed, tells me that something is going to be going a little bit

deeper than just that 24 hour period around the right itself. do >> you believe garland when he says, look, we don't take into account anything other than we are following the law? shouldn't justice department take into account potentially charging someone who is running for reelection if that's with the president tries to do now? >> now. the republicans were over k and i was okay with the department of investigating hillary clinton when there she was a candidate. if there are crimes committed by anybody but we want the department of justice to investigate whether or not that it's happened. we do not want law enforcement to be politically influenced one way or another. we don't want the supreme court to be influenced one way or another. is it difficult as a nation to take the decisions of the department of justice or the supreme court? yes but that is their job. they enforce the law, the court interprets the law, you want them to do that devoid of politics. >> when i went to his chief stout of staff mark meadows,

you held that job as well, given what you heard from former white house aide cassidy hutchinson, and others about his actions and inactions, do you think he may be in legal trouble here? >> and never practice criminal law. so i don't want to say. and i don't want to give an opinion where to show me how stupid i am. but where this is, when i took away from cassidy hutchinson's testimony is that the west wing was broken, it was not functioning properly. having a chief of detached, sitting on the sofa-ing testing as rome burns is one of those things that shows were not functioning properly. in that type of setting, people can make really bad decisions that come back to haunt them. absolutely. personally, i think there is bigger risk, based on what i have seen so far, for obstruction of justice after the fact. you can be as innocent as the snow on january 6th. but if you try to interfere with witnesses, and so often the cover-up, anderson, is a bigger deal than the underlying

potential crime itself. so there are a lot of bad things happening in the west wing, and bad decisions were made, and, again when things are broken, that things happen. >> the bore obviously is for the department of justice, then the january six commission. whatever anybody thinks of the january six commission, they are able to have people say things, which in a court of law would not, hearsay for instance, would not hold out. >> that is correct. a lot of cassidy hutchinson's testimony, for example, is interesting and insightful, but it would never be allowed in court. it might be allowed in a grand jury for example, one of the questions i asked for merrick garden this is using is -- and they're doing it methodically. that's their job. the january six committee, say what you want about, it is a political process. there is a political agenda. they are politicians involved. it's not a courtroom. and it's certainly not a criminal investigation. you want the department of justice to be more methodical, because it is a lot more serious. >> just lastly, according to

the new york times, kushner wrote his new book that when he was being treated for thyroid cancer in 2019, he only told for people in the white house, you being one of the four, according to a reporter close to you told the new york times, you did not remember that. is that accurate? remember jared kushner telling you that? >> that story took me by surprise. i do not remember if jerry told me. i do not recall that. that if anybody on the staff, including the son-in-law of the united states came to me and said look, i have a very serious health matter, i'm telling the president. we don't need to keep secrets from the united states. i think it said in the book that we managed to keep it a secret for the present or something like that, that would not happen. so i do not have a specific recollection, but i can assure you that any chief of staff finds out like a senior person like that is, at the present will know about. it >> nobody, i appreciate talking to you. >> thanks anderson. >> coming up next, the former president called the big give back the respect the police reserve. that is after a former officer

assaulted on the january 6th -- presidency is the most persecuted person ever and the history of this country. also, more on the economy, teetering high inflation possible recession. we'll talk to the political strategist who famously said it's the economy, stupid. james carville joins us. ♪ it wasn't me by shaggy ♪ you're never responsible for unauthorized purchases on your discover card. ♪ is this where your grandparents cut a rug,

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with the 5 vital electrolytes found in natural tears, theratears® is one-of-a-kind hydration that feels like silk. theratears®. a drop like no other™. tonight's reporting, the washington post said the justice department is investing the former presidents actions with respect to general six comes at the end of the day that we saw the former present return to washington and to a familiar theme, himself. >> a friend of mine recently said that i was the most persecuted person in the history of our country. and then i started thinking about it, kellyanne. and i said, you know what? he may very well but, he may be right. >> the former president said that after -- crimes in the street, after he said this. >> we have to give our police back their authority, resources, power, and prestige.

[applause] we have to leave our police alone. every time they do something, they are afraid they are going to be destroyed, their pensions going to be taken away, they will be fired, they will be put in jail. let them do their job, give them back the respect they deserve. >> now, you might imagine, those words, which were well received by the audience, might land quite differently for many people, especially in law enforcement in light of what they experienced on january 6th, as trump supporters violently supported police. including cnn law enforcement analyst and former d.c. police officer michael canute, who is beaten, taser, and suffered a fatal heart attack trying to do his job the day, and subsequently experience post traumatic stress. officer fanone, thank you so much for being with. that's when you hear the former president give police back the respect they deserve, i am wondering what went through

your mind? >> i mean, just listening to his speech, while there were certainly elements of it that i agreed with, i think he is the least credible person perhaps the least credible president in our history to deliver any remarks purporting himself to be pro police or you know pro law and order. he literally incited a insurrection, and there is significant evidence now that we have seen to show that he participated in and maybe even orchestrated a seditious conspiracy. >> and when the former president, i mean, he's claiming that he champions law enforcement. someone who has obviously viciously attacked by members of the trump inspired mob, he is calling, you know, police -- his claims he's champion law enforcement, calling police officers his heroes.

do you buy that? and we have heard testimony the january six commission from people who were working with the former president, who specifically have pointed out he -- all that stuff about his support for law enforcement, once you see what he did, put up with on january 6th, it just looks so hollow. >> yeah, i mean donald trump's pro police in that he supports the police officers that vote for him, just like he's pro anyone who was willing to cast a ballot in his favor. but as far as caring about individual law enforcement officers, just like a lot of people in this country, he could not care less. >> i want to play another part of what the former president said about law and order today. >> and where there is a true and total breakdown of law in order, where citizens most basic rights have been violated, then the federal government can and should send the national

guard to restore order and secure the peace without having to wait for the approval of some governor that thinks it's politically incorrect to call them in. the next president needs to send the national guard to the most dangerous neighborhoods in chicago until safety can be successfully restored, which can happen very, very quickly. >> the former presidents talk about the federal government not having to wait for a governor's approval to send the national guard. we just learned the former acting defense secretary told the house select committee that the former president never gave him a formal order to have 10,000 troops ready to be deployed to the capitol on january 6th, like he keeps claiming he did. >> right, yeah, first of all we have a law in the country, posse comitatus, which prevents federal troops from entering into states and engaging in law enforcement activity without first receiving approval and

authorization from the governors. i am an american, i do not want to live in a country where i'm pleased by the military. i think that is probably the most un-american thing that i can imagine. you know, i get it, crime is real bad in some of these areas. but there are a lot of other solutions rather than declare martial law and again, the irony of donald trump claiming that he's willing to use these resources to combat crime, but was not willing to use them to defend the police officers who were fighting to protect members of congress and the capitol complex. >> it is particularly shameless of ham on his first time back to washington to be making this the subject of his speech. he defended insurrectionists in the speech. people who quote, in his words, in some cases did not even enter the building. he went on to say they are quote, being tortured and handled so horribly. what do you say to that?

>> well, he sent them to the capitol on january 6th, so he has to stick up for them, that he is counting on their support. i'm assuming that he is going to announce a bid for 2024 to run for president. but, you know, calling donald trump shameless, those words ring hollow. donald trump does not care about things like honor, integrity, shame. you know, those are just not words that mean anything to him. unfortunately, they do not mean a whole lot to many of his supporters. >> officer michael fanone, ipa talking to you as always, thank you. >> thank you. >> coming up, new polling shows trouble for president biden's possible reelection act for, possibly from within his own party. i'll talk to democratic chief strategist of clinton's 1992 campaign, james carville next. when you have technology that's easier to control...

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new cnn poll today showed a dim outlook for the president in 2024. 75% of democratic democratic-leaning parties want the party to nominate someone other than biden for the election. 75%. the numbers up from 51%, the poll conducted just in january and february, according to cnn's harry enten, that 75% figure is the weakest numbers for an incumbent president seeking reelection since jimmy carter in 1970. it comes as americans expressed frustration over the state of the economy, the country, inflation at a 40 year high,

american struggling with the rising cost of food, housing, gas. consumer confidence slipping for the third month since july. >> despite these, worries president biden says the nation will see a recession. joining us now, democratic strategist of the podcast, jason when you see these numbers. 75%. is there anything the president can do to reverse these kinds of numbers in his own party? >> yeah, for having a decent 2022 it would help. it's considered to be impolite to talk about the election at the next one. but these numbers i've seen several members in of their polls. they are quite challenging. let's see how well we can do in this year. then we'll get to 2024. >> you famously coined the phrase, is the economy stupid during the 1992 campaign, i mean, index the tracks. consumer confidence fell for the third month in a row. what kind of tangible argument

can democrats make to voters on the economy in this next election? >> let's be honest. gas prices are falling also, pretty consistently here over the last six or seven weeks. hourly workers are actually having a pretty good go at it. there is no doubt that there is deep and profound troubles in this economy. the strange thing is that contra indication, some of these senate races, these guys at the campaign called me and said, were doing a lot better than i thought we've been doing. small donor stuff is just pouring in further democrats. >> is that related to roe v. wade? is it related to the idea of president trump coming back? what do you think it is? >> no. we are going to find out a lot a week from today in kansas. because there is an election, an actual election where dobbs is more or less on the ballot. we will know a week from tonight just exactly what it is. it's one of the deepest red states. the question of

regulation of abortions going to be on the ballot. people are going to vote on that. that is something that every view of this network and program should be, getting their popcorn out and watching the elections tuesday night. they are going to be very, very significant. >> if you were in the white house right now. and whether it's about the present -- presidential election, or midterms, what would your messaging be? what would get you up in the morning? >> what would get me up in the morning is, the first thing i would do is exactly what ron king does, check the gas prices. i would see, you know, check in with the different campaigns. and see what's going on. the truth of the matter is, there's not a lot you can do. i sat through the 1994 cycle and we got -- we got clobbered in 2010. the republicans got clobbered in 2018. there's a lot of history going against the party in power but, you try to get things better, but the

truth of the matter is we are doing better than the generic ballot test and the math of the senate races around the country. there's some sun shine coming in. in this dark cycle. >> i want to ask about this being the some groups that support democrats, have done, which is brought advertising, which might boost far-right -- fringe candidates might be easily are defeated in a general election, because they would turn of independents and others. congressman madam kinzinger called democratic groups helping to promote election deniers disgusting. he warned they are underestimating the threat to democracy in the u. s.. i want to play what he said and ask you to respond. >> sure. >> i think a certain number of democrats truly understand the democracies threatening, don't come to me after having spent money supporting an election denier in a primary and then come to me and say, where are all the good republicans? if you are worried about democracy. i truly believe all

these issues we argue about, they matter. but the thing that matters the most right now is a threat to our democracy. it's the thing our kids will judge us by. and when we're sitting there playing dccc, dnc politics, let's promote the crazy. and then that person wins, you don't understand the real threat. i'm sorry, you don't understand the threat to democracy. >> what do you think of the strategy this summer doing? >> look, this is gone on forever. rush limbaugh told people to vote, and cross over, in the democratic primaries. i've seen this happen a number of times. sometimes, most of the times ineffective. it does not work. but if i'm running a campaign, i am going to do whatever i think is in the best interest of that candidate. that is where they hired me to do, i would without hesitation, equivocation, or reservation. if i think it would help my candidate, if i promoted a candidate on the republican side.

i would do it. i wouldn't have one iota of moral problem about it. usually it's not very effective. i mean, people say, democrats wanted to run against reagan, okay. the republicans would nominate him anyway. the democrats want to run against trump. they would've been able to nominate trump anyway. if they had the real power to do it. but in pennsylvania, if josh apparel thing, would say, did it was ethical, smart, and they're acting in the best interest of the candidate in party. i have no problem with it. >> james carville, that's why we asked. you i knew you would give your opinion. up next, a look at next week's primary battle in michigan where a freshman republican congressman who voted to impeach the former presidents, will face off against a trump administration official. and how democrats are also getting in on the race! we're carvana the company who invented car vending machines and buying a car 100 percent online

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development. gibbs is endorsed by him. cnn correspondent got to manu has the story. >> three days for congressman meyer's -- protests right at the capitol. a week after that, he voted with just nine other republicans to impeach donald trump over his role. now, he could lose his job because of that vote. >> was that a concern of yours? that you got defined by this? >> i think you always have a moment where you say, i could take the easy way or i could actually follow where my conscience is. if you're number one job in office is to stay in office, you should find another job. >> you don't regret that? vote >> not for a second. >> >> despite hailing from a story michigan family,, and maintaining that record, republicans see meijer as the clear underdog in next tuesday's primary. >> i think was the biggest career ending move in history for him to do that. >> john gives a trying to unseat him. a former trump official housing official, who

has the support of the former president, gibbs is embracing false election claims. >> do you think the election was stolen? >> i think there was enough shenanigans to face the result. >> >> would you think about the folks that's dangerous? >> >> it was never proven. there was never widespread -- when you say to the fact that never materialized? >> one analogy you can look ike's the mafia. for many years you couldn't arrest them. you knew the wrong guy is in groups and stuff, but i think we will get there, just like the mafia. >> it's that kind of rhetoric that has democrats hoping to face gives in november, with the house democrats campaign -- propping him up with this ad. >> handpicked by trump to run for -- gibbs called trump the greatest president. >> part of a national strategy to boost far-right republicans in primaries. even as they call them a threat to democracy. >> i think gives a certainly fired up a certain portion of the electorate over those claims. and i think it is dangerous. >> democrats could flip the seat with a boost from redistricting.

>> this district is so winnable. we can do it this time. moving the district nearly 12 points in the democrats direction. but democrat hillary scolding will first have to overcome president biden's sagging approval in concerns over inflation. >> is the president helping or hurting you in this race? >> the president isn't in this. race >> both bryan and his predecessor loom large. like the former president, gift downplays the january 6th attack by the trump inspired mob. >> from supporters, you blame them, where they're, where they the ones who came into the capitol? >> i don't know. but from my understanding, the pictures i've seen, that's where people where they were standing around and holding flags and things like that. so, those people obviously didn't do anything wrong. >> meyers though lived through the deadly riot of that day. >> three hours, the president nothing. that was a shameful deliberation of duty. -- joins us now. i'm amazed with some things mister gibbs says with a

straight face. we know that the former president supports his opponent john gibbs, out of the rest the party feel about him? they want meijer to win, even if they are being public about it or saying anything. republican leader, kevin mccarthy is quietly gain through his leadership pack $10,000 to peter meijer, just in the last several days. the party committee on the republican side i stayed neutral on this. but what is also interesting in this race is peter meijer and his super pac has spent a ton of money here, trying to promote him. super pac have gone after gibbs but gibbs in self has not run a single tv ad at all through the course of this primary, even though he as seen as very clear as a front runner. and that makes democrats happy, because not only the january six views and his views, his false views about a stolen election, but also his views on abortion as well. telling me that he does not support exceptions in the case of rape, something that the democrats undoubtedly will try to exploit in the general election.

>> mr. rogers, we thank, you we appreciate it. coming up, after the years of waiting, some of those killed at sandy hook are finally getting their chance to make conspiracy spreader alex jones pay for the lies he spread about the killings. the first of several trials seeking damages after being found legally responsible for his false crimes began today. we will have a live report from austin texas next. ♪ ♪ aleve x. its revolutionary rollerball design delivers fast, powerful, long-lasting pain relief. aleve it, and see what's possible. the unknown is not empty. it's a storm that crashes, and consumes, replacing thought with worry. but one thing can calm uncertainty.

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opening arguments began today in the first of several trials involving parents of the children murdered at sandy hook elementary school. and conspiracy spreader alex jones. in october, jones was found legally responsible for false claims he made about the killings. today, the lawyer for the plaintiffs said they are now seeking 100 $50 million in damages. >> that is a huge verdict, to be sure. but it is one that will do justice to the level of harm done in this case. harm that was done to the

parents a, grieving parents of murdered children, who have had to endure, for ten years, the most despicable and vile defamation and slander in america. >> today, jones's lawyers claim that sound thousands were questioning the shooting, not just him, all because of what he called quote, bad coverage, unquote, by the mainstream media. the mass killing occurred ten years ago this december in newtown connecticut. six adults, 20 children were murdered. joining me now is the new york times elizabeth williamson, who has been covering the trial from austin, texas. she's also the author of sandy hook, an american tragedy and the battle for truth. published earlier this year. you've been following this story and the consequences of alex jones's lies about sandy hook shooting for years. what stood out to you in court today? >> hey, anderson. thank you for having me on. i think what stood out to me is that this is the first time that we have heard $1 figure attached to the suffering that

these families have gone through after alex jones began spreading lies about sandy oaks, that it was governed hoax and in service of gun control. so this is an attempt to sort of put on material value on what they have gone through as sort of that secondary trauma after the shooting itself. >> the hundred $50 million in damage, 75 million of that represents $1 from each person who did not believe the shooting occurred because of false information pushed by alex jones, that is what the lawyers are saying. i wonder what the reaction from jones was one that number was said in court? >> he was visibly unnerved by that. it is kind of a complicated formula that the lawyers came up with, after monday when jones's own lawyer suggested that they might see a single dollar in damages. and he extended this argument that the parents loss of their

son, jesse lewis, was so enormous that anything jones could have said or done was just sort of paled in comparison. so, this motivated the lawyers to say that for -- they cited of all in which a quarter of americans shortly after the shooting believed that sandy hook was either definitely or possibly fake. and so, that 750 million americans. so, they came up with a formula that would make jones pay $1 for the reputation damage and emotional damage he inflicted by convincing that many people that the shooting was faked. >> i understand alex jones was parading around today, acting as if somehow he was a victim. and in the middle of the proceedings, he actually went out and, did he hold some kind of press conference that the judge admonished him for? >> yes, after this 150 million dollar amount was raised, he

kind of burst out of the courtroom and began sort of holding forth. just, a couple dozen feet from the courtroom. the judge was really unhappy about that because jurors are in the area. so she admonish tim for that. but he was enormously angry. he called this, you know, constitution destroying. that it was a kangaroo court, and a show trial. this is something he has been saying for years, of course. >> is there any indication that jones will actually testify? >> that is a open question. he was in the court today, as we have seen in other court appearances on related cases. he has a hard time kind of controlling his emotions in court. today, he was putting a piece of duct tape over his mouth saying save the first, referring to the first amendment, and leaving that on the table in view of the jurors. i think maybe both sides could see this as somewhat of a risk,

because he's such an unpredictable character. >> can we actually get money from him? i mean, he sells a lot of ads for supplements and, you know, who knows what else. >> yeah, i mean, he has a pretty ingenious business model and when you look at it, the fine, the proposed judgment, really that is equivalent to about three years worth of $50 million in annual revenues that he has earned. >> wow. >> selling doomsday proper merchandise, untraceable gun components, body armor, and diet supplements, all four people who distrust everything from traditional medicine to the federal government. and that is kind of what is at the root of this whole case. so, the money is probably there. >> elizabeth williamson, i so appreciate all your reporting for years on this. thank you. we will be right back.

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