good evening, there are major new january sixth developments tonight in both the house select committees investigation and the justice department criminal probe. first, the select committee and keep members of the former administration are not cooperating with it or could be about to. we are talking about former cabinet level officials with firsthand knowledge of what the former president was saying. last night in the program, we talked about pieces of a puzzle, and these could be significant once because these are men who could speak if they choose about with the former president was asking the department to do, or even what some of them were reportedly discussing amongst themselves about using their own constitutional power to stop the president. with those who talked already said to the committee and others might say, we just don't know. but what they say, given the positions they held and what

they were privy to, is potentially formidable. it includes former secretary of state, mike, who we first reported last night is expected to sit down with the house committee, perhaps soon as this week. also former treasury secretary, steven mnuchin, we have learned today that he has already been interviewed by the committee. sources also tell us that because uses are underway for the former national intelligence director, john ratcliffe, for a sit down with him. then there is former acting boss chief of staff, mick mulvaney, we spoke with earlier on the program. he was spotted on the way out after speaking with the committee today. mulvaney, as you know, was serving as envoy to northern ireland when the capitol was attacked and quit in the aftermath. steve mnuchin at the time was reported to have been involved about discussions to invoke the 25th amendment to remove the president from office. there is reporting from jonathan carl, who you will hear from shortly, is that one of the people that mnuchin talked to was secretary of state mike. cnn's own reporting is that the

select committee is especially interested now in learning more about the capitol level conversations. this is coming in the wake, of course, of testimony from cassidy hutchinson that top former top aide to the cheapest of, mark meadows. >> from what i understood at the time, and from what they're reports were coming in, there is a large concern of the 25th amendment potentially being invoked, and there are concerns about what would happen in the senate if it was at the 25th was invoked. >> cassidy hutchinson, as you know, is not cooperating with the justice department criminal probe as well. late today, a lawyer for the former department of justice staff are, can glue kaskey, said his client is also cooperating. it is potentially significant because he worked with jeffrey clark. this guy who is the former president wanted to make acting attorney general to help carry out a selection scheme. clark, according to reporting, seemed willing. cnn's kaitlan paul lengths, who joins us shortly, has also

learned along with cnn's evan perez, the prosecutors are preparing for a court battle to force former white house officials to testify about what the born president said and did on and around january 6. first, the select committee member zoe lofgren joins us. congresswoman, i know you can get into specifics but in terms of these latest witnesses, can you say to focus on conversations among trump administration officials about possibly invoking the 25th amendment. was that the focus? >> as we have said publicly in our hearings, the 25th amendment was a focus of the committees, but not the only focus. it is pretty clear from the evidence that the speech given by the president on the 7th of january was motivated largely because of this concern that the 25th amendment would be invoked and he would be removed as president. certainly, we are going to find

out more from his cabinet members, as i think the vice chair said it is really like a dam has broken and people are coming in to speak to the committee, which is important. this is very much an active investigation. >> it really does feel like that to you, that a dam has broken, and people are coming in, previously who would not have? >> yes, there are a lot of people, and there is a ton of documents that have come in as well. obviously, it is an intensive task to go through the documents. some may not be relevant, and some may be highly relevant. we are visibly working on that as well. >> how cooperative have these latest witnesses been? obviously, you can see what they have said, but have they provided anything that the committee was unaware of up to this point? >> let me just say that it is a mixed bag, but some have been very, very open and have

provided useful information to the committee. we appreciate that. our mission has been to funded --find out everything that there is to find out about the 6 and the events leading up to the 6. these witnesses are helping us put the pieces together, and in some cases are confirming information that we already have. >> sources tell cnn that your committee is negotiating terms for a potential interview with former director of national intelligence, john ratcliffe. i don't know if you can confirm that, that bigger if you could, but is the committee in the process of speaking with more former trump administration officials, as well? >> as you know, the rules don't allow me to identify the people that we are negotiating with, but i will say broadly, yes, we are reaching out to trump officials and, broadly speaking, and we have every expectation that many of them will, if not all of them, will respond. >> i am wondering what your reaction was to attorney

general merrick garland's comments this week about the dj investigation. do you think it is likely that the former president may be charged criminally? >> i have no idea. the department of justice is not telling the committee, nor should they. i am relying on the same public statements that you are. but it does look like they have brought in their investigation to look at not just the individual riders in the capital that day, but they do need to do the, but also what was the plot behind it. who was involved in it? this was not some riders showing up and assaulting police officers randomly on the 6th of january. it was a putt leading up to it. i think that is what the committee has been trying to uncover. it looks like the department of justice is trying to do the same thing. >> congresswoman lofgren, appreciate time, as always, thank you. >> thank you. >> perspective now from abc news chief washington

correspondent, jonathan carl, who wrote about much of this in a fascinating book, betrayal, the final act of trump show. there are a lot of details in your book about conversations about invoking the 25th amendment. how serious where they? where do they start? who talk to them? >> to me, the most amazing revolution was the conversations of the 2 most senior people in trump's cabinet at the time, treasury secretary mnuchin and the secretary of state, might compel. these are not only the 2 most senior people left in the cabinet, you had so many acting secretary's, they were also 2 total trump loyalists. they, i learned, had a conversation sometime late in the evening ungenerous, where they talked about the 25th amendment. obviously, it was a path that was not taken, but, the mere

fact that they were even raising this, as a possibility, think about what it means, you are removing a president because you are declaring him mentally unfit to be in office. now, we have learned subsequently from a junior 6 hearings testimony of cassidy hutchinson and others that there was real fear, that that option could be pursued. they were using that as a way to pressure trump to come out of finally to give a statement. >> sean henry in a tex i think to mark meadows, also said -- maybe kelly mick mcelhaney, i can't remember who -- the 25th amendment talk is real. obviously, it fizzled out. do you know how serious anybody was about it? >> the most serious a gut, as i was told, was mike pompeo actually asked a lawyer to explain how it all worked. they got to the point of at least looking into what the process would be. they pretty quickly realized it was not going to work. first of all, you had cabinet secretaries resign. you had devos, elaine chao, resign.

so obviously those would be 2 votes for invoking the 25th amendment now gone. there is also a problem because the law is not entirely clear about whether or not acting secretaries would be included. would there be included in the total, the majority of, we have the right to vote? trump had so many acting secretaries that they knew whatever round you chose, it would be subject to legal challenge. if you included the acting, trump could challenge it legally. the process of arguing out in court, he only had 2 weeks left in office. that is why it fizzled out. it was going to take too much time. >> you'll be fascinating just emerald details of it. it is the kind of thing, like, planning a coup against somebody. you are trying to figure out who is thinking the same thing? and whose going to rat you out? it is also unclear no weather pump out talks to the january 6 committee, how forthcoming he might be, given he has his own presidential ambitions.

>> which is complicated. given he has his own presidential ambitions and wants to run as the candidate against the trump movement. he also wants to run for president. one person standing in the way is donald trump. it is complicated, but i am fascinated to see what pump would say, assuming they actually get him to come in, he takes the old. how does he answer the question because as i was reporting on this, i tried desperately to get to him, to ask him about this. i kept on getting pushed off. i kept on getting pushed off, and his spokes person ever said, no, nothing ever happens, you can't commit that on the record, i will put it in. give me the no, i will put it in. and no, suddenly, my calls were not returned for months. my last conversation for the book with donald trump over the phone, and i asked him about this. he said, oh, that is ridiculous, it never happened. i said why has mike pompeo not denied it? >> how did he respond to that? >> it is totally nonsense --

then, i got a call within an hour of trump hanging up. he hung up with me at the end of the conversation. with a trump spokesperson for mike pompeo, who had been voted me for months saying, okay, i got something for you. the spokesperson would not allow me to use his name with the statement. from a sports person, it never happened, there was never any conversations about the 25th amendment, but there were. it will be interesting to see with his hand on the bubble. >> do you think he could offer valuable testimony? >> i think, first of all, on that hearing, directly from him, i know they have also spoken to mnuchin, again, did not pursue it. there is that, but the mere fact that his 2 top guys talked about it, as a possibility, is an amazing insight into how worried they were that trump had completely lost control. that will be interesting, but he is a total trump loyalists. i think one other thing he could talk about is the concern

that the pentagon had gone off the rails. remember, trump had fired the civilian leadership at the pentagon, put in a group of people that he believed were total loyalists, and i know the pump ail -- and important thing i noted in the book, pump a are called bill barr to say that i am worried about what is going on in the pentagon. there was concerns about strikes against iran, with trump ado during this lame duck period? how would he create a national -- international crisis as a way to stay in power. there is a real concerns. mike pompeo at one point called bar and asked about that. i learned that directly from the other side of the composition. it will be interesting to see mike pompeo will acknowledge it? >> fascinating, judgment think carl, thank you so much. more now on the new justice department reporting and what it might signal about how far prosecutors are willing to go and how hard they are willing to prepare to get there. cnn's kaitlan has been talking to her sources, joins us now. walk us through this potential

justice department court battle over executive privilege. >> right, so anderson, today, we are learning that the justice department is gearing up to get ready to go to court, as they are investigating for criminal -- possible criminality of january 6 and the presidency. so, one of the things that evan perez and another reporter here and i are learning from several sources today is what the justice department, prosecutors and investigators want to get access to now -- is conversations that donald trump was having in the white house in the days before january 6 and january 6 itself. what is happening here, the reason that this is arising is that there are 2 people who wanted to grandeur in recent weeks, marc short and greg jacob, but work under mike pence and office at the vice president. they had certain things they could not talk about. they think those things might be off limits because doesn't it might be privileged. or they want to the grand jury and declined to answer questions. now, we are seeing the just portland leading up to the moment where they want to challenge these executive privilege claims that donald

trump might try to get them wiped away, so that they are not standing in the way from getting those facts from witnesses like short and jacob. this would take it into a new aggressive face, because we have not seen a court battle like this related to january 6 and the powers of the presidency, the separation of powers. the question is how long that court battle might day, and that's always been a question with the january six committee, bringing people to executive privilege claim >> right now, you could take a long time. the courts moved slowly in some instances, and fast and others in a criminal investigation like this, there are lots of judges out there that would say yes, we would want to move very fast on something like this, but what does this tell us and where we stand right now, is that with marc short, and greg jacob going to the grand jury, not answering all the questions, clearly prosecutors don't have

all the answers here. everything they want out of this. there would be ways to go to figure this out, and then potentially get more information. we are also learning about a lot of other investigative work that the justices do. they're obtaining the cell phone of john eastman. they're getting to look into the contents of july 12th. we also reported tonight that someone working with jeffrey clark who is helping trump at the justice department that he was searched the same as klukowski, he's become a co-operator. and then there's also the. -- with cassidy hutchinson, the key witness in the committee investigation in which he had to say, that she is now also in touch with the justice department vested gaiters. it's coming together, but we don't really know where it's going. >> finally, on the executive privilege thing, i'm not sure anybody knows this, but if it's marc short's claims of executive privilege that goes to court for, and a judge rules

one way or the other, does that ruling extend to all other people in the form of presidents orbit and their claims of executive privilege, or with the justice department have to bring each individual's claims to court? >> we would have to see how this case itself would play out. there's lots of different postures. but in this sort of circumstance that actually would be donald trump's claim of executive privilege. we have been through court cases like this in the past. in the nixon administration. in the clinton administration. there really has been a litigation of a former president trying to make a claims different than the sitting president where joe biden is saying they're not going to assert privilege, but in this particular situation in the nixon administration, they tried to keep the tapes of watergate private from the grand jury. the court said no. there wasn't going to be executive privilege for protecting that and it came up again twice in the clinton administration.

there was a white house lawyer who wanted to claim some privileges. the courts did not side with the white house in those circumstances either. so our reporting, anderson, is that there are officials overseeing this investigation who believe that when the justice department brings this and litigated, they will ultimately win. >> that would be huge. caitlin, thank you very much. i appreciate it. on a beautiful evening in d. c., there's new economic data released from there this morning, which had everyone asking if we are in a recession already, and how bad things might get coming up next, we will talk to the man among the first to sound the alarm that the current state of economic former treasury secretary, lauren summers. what he thinks comes next and when. a live report from kentucky and the death toll is rising due to the flooding.

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of the dead rising from the grave. two weeks ago, the headline read mansion crushes biden -- 's revival for economic agenda. manchin -- joe manchin obviously, has no revived the hopes he had once crushed. after talks with chuck schumer, the west virginia democrat signed off on legislation delivering much of what the president was looking for. now, senate democrats are scrambling to get their members on board for what would be a victory if they can at a key moment for the economy. jessica dean joins us now. now that you've had a chance to dig in the bill, with senate? >> there are several buckets. three to be precise. health care, climate provisions, tax divisions. we could start first with health care. with that we do is extend these affordable care act subsidies for another three years. it would also allow medicare to negotiate drug prices. that was always what we thought manchin would go for,

especially when these talks broke down as you were just outlining two weeks ago. it was a real surprise to a lot of senate democrats quite frankly, and they were pleased to see these climate provisions, it would be the largest climate investment that we have seen come out of capitol hill ever with a very ambitious goal of lowering carbon emissions by 40% by 2040. hundreds of billions of dollars for climate provisions. there's also tax provisions there, two key components of that would be a corporate minimum tax of 15%, and then closing the tax loophole on something called carried interest. that's kind of what democrats are looking at right now, and again, those last two buckets, certainly not really anybody here thought they would be getting those with manchin. >> senator manchin seems to be on board. why do we know about senator kyrsten sinema? >> she is another key vote that we are watching quite closely here in the senate. she did not want to talk publicly about this today. her spokesperson did say that she is going to review this and

that she will have -- once she wants to get a look at everything, we know that she has expressed concern over closing a tax loophole on carried interest. that is an issue that she has been concerned of in the past. we also know that back in and october she released a statement on the corporate minimum tax, saying she was supportive of that. we are still waiting to read the tea leaves. i think it's important to note as well that earlier today, senator manchin said he had not spoken with her. we know she was not involved in these negotiations. we're going to wait to see which he thinks. she's going to be a key person to watch and all of this. >> jessica dean, we appreciate it. where the economy is and where it's heading, and what the legislation does. who's been getting some of the credit for bringing joe manchin on board with this bill? former treasury secretary lauren summer. secretary summers, thank you for joining us. you spoke to senator manchin to answer his concerns that elements of this proposed legislation could be inflationary. i know you won't say what you spoke to him about, because

that's private, but can you explain why this bill does not add or would not add to inflation? >> sure, anderson. i actually think this bill, if anything, will reduce inflation in three ways. first, it will reduce deficits and reduce demands, because we are raising taxes by more and any increases and spending. that takes money and demand out of the economy which pulls prices down. second, it increases supply. it supports big increases in the availability of energy and fuels. that on net is going to reduce their price, which is an input to almost everything else in the economy. third, it uses the purchasing power of the government to buy pharmaceuticals at lower costs, which means lower health insurance, which means lower prices that people are paying for pharmaceuticals.

so, and all three ways, pricing power, supply, demand, this is anti inflationary legislation. >> we learned this morning that the u.s. gross domestic product fell at a 0. 9%, making it a second quarter in a row that the u.s. economy has shrunk. the white house is in a transition. they've indicated that the week economical numbers will get better. you've recently said you believe recession will happen perhaps in the next 18 months. how bad do you think it will be? how long do you think you could last? >> my guess is we will see in the 6% range or a little higher. it's not going to be anything like the great financial crisis. it's not gonna be like the economy falling off the cliff at the beginning of covid. but it's also not going to be a walk in the park. it's kind of the inevitable thing, given how substantially we overheated the economy that

got us to ourselves to the kind of 9% inflation rate that we have. i cannot say just how long or how deep it's going to be, but i don't think it's right to pretend that there isn't going to be any pain or dislocation. in some ways, anderson, the biggest danger is we don't do the job. when doctors prescribe antibiotics, they only stress that it's important to take the whole course of the antibiotics, because if you just stop the moment you feel better, your illness is likely to recur and the bacteria are more likely to be resistant. inflation is like that. >> i've done that many times, just stop when i feel better. >> exactly, and that's going to be the temptation. i've done it too, anderson. that is going to be the

temptation when we start to see the economy soften, and we see some declines and slowdowns in the inflation rate, and people are going to say oh my god, we've got to stop this and we've got to address the potential recession, and that is what they did four or five times in the 1970s. and that is what made the huge mess that caused the country to feel completely out of control with the 21% prime interest rate at the end of the 1970s. it cost president carter to be thrown out of office. if we don't carry through, if we make a kind of mistakes that frankly the fed made last year, just ignoring the inflation threat, we set the stage for more dislocation and more unemployment. >> let me ask you about the fed. they've raised interest rate by

75 basis points for the second attempt in deflation in flea. are they doing enough? >> they haven't done enough so far. they're going to have to keep raising interest rates as they have recognized. my guess is they're going to have to raise interest rates more than they think. we are going to have to raise interest rates, and it worries me that they do not have a realistic economic forecast. they keep telling us that we are going to get inflation all the way down from 9 to 2. and we are going to do that without ever having unemployment rise above 4. 1%. >> larry summers, former treasury secretary. i really appreciate you being with us this evening. it's great to hear from you. thank you. >> good to be with you. >> coming up, at least eight people have died as floods and heavy rainfalls destroyed parts of the eastern kentucky. next, we will hear from our cnn's joe johns as rescue

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just hours ago, kentucky governor andy beshear confirmed eight people have died in the kentucky floods. he expects the death toll to climb even higher. he said half of some of the states counties are underwater in what he called the worst flooding disaster of his lifetime.

this comes as record-breaking rain falls and extreme flooding causes devastation across the nation in west virginia. the governor declared a state of emergency for six counties. in missouri, arizona, flash flooding, road closures. in eastern kentucky, our reporter is there were efforts are underway of rescues. >> a way to rescue those still stranded in eastern kentucky, and with the governor says we'll end up being one of the most significant deadly floods in years. >> unfortunately, i expect double digits in this flooding. that is something that we rarely see. >> the water is so high you can only see the roof of this home. many other submerged up to the windows. a relentless stalled storm front dumped more than eight inches of rain in the area overnight. raging waters swept away homes and cars. >> i didn't think it would get that high. >> this couple barely got out of their home in time. >> you better get your clothes

on and your backpack, is we gotta get out of here. by the time we got up to the neighbors it went from the back of the trailer to the car port. >> the creekside town of hindman, appears to be submerged in water. governor andy beshear declared a statewide emergency and announced the first confirmed deaths. a woman in her 80s in paris county and at least two others. later in the day, the governor said the death toll had reached eight. >> we expect the loss of life. hundreds will lose their homes, and this is going to be yet another event that is going to take not months, but likely years for many families to rebuild and recover. >> flooded down phone lines kept residents from getting help immediately overnight. >> i can't get to them. nobody could get to them. >> have you ever experienced

anything like that? >> no, this has never been this that. >> floodwaters rising over the bridge downtown whitesburg. many roads in the area are impassable. while the national guard has been mobilized to rescue people and provide aid, hundreds are expected to lose their homes. >> it happens. i mean, it's biden of the first time. we have insurance. this time we don't. we will make it. we always do with god's help. just have to pick yourself back up and that's all you can do, you know. >> joe johns joins me now from eastern kentucky. i know you've been driving through the state. can you talk about what you've been seeing? >> yeah, you know when, anderson? i gotta say, i really wasn't prepared for what i've been seeing. as you get closer and closer to hazard, kentucky, you see miles and miles of roads that have been partially partially encroach by water and there are houses partially submerged. some are fully submerged. i think the thing that is most

concerning is seen people driving into the flood zone, trying to locate family members who lived and some of the houses that are cut off from everybody else. so, it's a very concerning situation for this part of kentucky. frankly, anderson, i worked here years ago right out of college in appalachia, not too far from eastern kentucky. you've heard stories. i've heard many stories about flash floods and the kind of devastation it causes. there's nothing like actually seen what is happening here. the upside, the only upside, is that people are putting their arms around each other and trying to help. they are blocking off roads to tell others, don't go down there. they're trying to give advice

about how to get around. that is the one upside. the rest of this, it's going to be a long, cross -- process for eastern kentucky. around hazard. >> these images are extraordinary. the communities are completely under water, up to the rooftops. joe i appreciate you being here. coming up, we'll have an update on the cnn exclusive we brought you last night. the latest on a proposal by the u.s. to free americans, brittney griner and paul whelan, and also, we'll take a look at the russian arms dealer that the u.s. is offering in exchange and how he came to be wanted by authorities here. [whistling] with technology that can scale across all your clouds... it's easier to do more innovative things. [whistling]

an update now, on the cnn exclusive we brought to last night. the biden administration is expressing frustration over the lack of response for prisoner exchange. secretary of state, anthony blinken says he plans to speak with the counterpart about a proposal to exchange americans brittney griner and paul will mean for the russian arms dealer, victor boot. earlier today, the kremlin said, quote, so far there is no agreement on this issue. talks with a potentially prisoner exchange are prompting people to ask who is viktor

bout, and why was he in prison in the u.s. and who did you work for? nick paton walsh spoke with him from jail years ago and has a story. >> he's the lord of war, according to this fictional movie starring nicolas cage. >> would you like about war lords and dictators, they always pay their bills on time. the merchant of death, per a book about his alleged life. that despite much evidence, viktor bout has always denied being one of the biggest arms dealers of the 90s fueling civil wars and bolstering moscow's interests. he still never really wanted to be a nobody. >> why did the americans want you so badly? >> [inaudible] >> he gave me his last interview in a tight jail 13 years ago when he denied the worst charges against him. >> this is a lie and bull.

i never supplied arms, and i've never had any deal with al-qaeda. >> and the noisy, packed visiting area as he sat behind the glass. the bit i remember most was his mother interrupting. [inaudible] and he admitted he had worked for the russian government. in the end, he was not superhuman, and arrested in thailand after a u.s. sting operation. while his decades of life in the shadows have left him -- he was always just a pilot career he insisted, even as he was led into this cold room. today, in manhattan federal court, victor boot begins to face american justice. >> the u.s. sting was complex, over many months and countries, catching him offering weapons to u.s. agents, pretending to be colombian terrorists.

he was eventually extradited to face a new york trial for conspiring to kill americans. it saw him sentenced to 25 years in prison in a medium security facility in illinois. then he told me in emails that he was and it's spirits, brushing up on his many languages and in 2019, very glad when his wife and daughter visited. he was slowly edging toward the end to -- the end of his sentence, perhaps a reason his role in a swap was more appealing, but the biggest mystery about bout, was why the u.s. wanted himself your sleep. he had a let should lead dealt arms to a lot about people across africa and the 90s, but that was known and exposed. observers search for another weighty reason, we he wondered if he had served alongside along kremlin insiders in his long past overseas. that remains a huge question mark. both over him and any swap. is he a pilot in the wrong place at the very worst times,

or have so many have said, a profiteer and policy -- for moscow and the world's nastiest wars? >> nick paton walsh joins me now. it's so fascinating to hear about the history. when you think russia has not always taken a deal? >> it's extraordinary, isn't it? if you believe the kind of big fish this man as being portrayed out, and i saw them put the efforts to prevent him from being extradited from thailand to the united states. you would think they would have snapped up the offer made a number of weeks ago privately. instead, it is now public and certainly, even anthony blinken's counterpart, sergei lavrov said today that he simply did not have time to take the phone call between

them about this particular issue. is this because victor boot simply isn't as influential or important to the kremlin now as he was then? has the u.s. overestimated his value to vladimir putin? that is entirely possible. or is it also that moscow could possibly smell blood in the water, seeing desperate how the biden ministration are to get griner and wheel in home? maybe they think they could get more concessions from the biden administration during these negotiations. either way now, the biden administration are essentially in the open doing hostage diplomacy offering up people in their custody in exchange for americans they believe are being held hostage by the russians. that is a significant departure, and one, it seems for, now that the kremlin is still trying to exploit. anderson? >> nick paton walsh, i appreciate it. thank you. coming up, president trump tries to defend the saudi -backed golf tournament. by appearing to absolve them of any connection to 9/11. i will talk to the mother who was killed on 9/11 while trying to save others. the mother joins us next. big game today!

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made it a stunning defense of his decision to host a golf tournament funded by saudi arabia. the event begins tomorrow at his club in bedminster new jersey. it's attracted criticism of anger, particularly from family up those killed on 9/11 who blame the saudi government. speaking with espn, today, this is with the former president said. >> you're so closely associated with the city of new york. and, you, of all people, understand the passion throughout the 9/11. what do you say to those family members who protested earlier this week, and we'll be doing so on friday? >> well, nobody's got into the bottom of 9/11, unfortunately. they showed up. >> he then tried to put some sort of positive spin on the event by telling the, quote, great people who are there. and, the quote, fun they all would have. now, in 2016, before he won office, he long classified the report about the hijacking of the aircraft was released. and, a region, while in the united states, september 11

hijackers were in contact with and received support or assistance from individuals who may be connected to the saudi government. what's more, months before that report was released, the former president gave a completely different answer during two separate events on the same day about saudi involvement. >> who blew up the world trade center? it wasn't the iraqis. it was the saudis. if we take a look at saudi arabia, look at the documents. >> it wasn't the iraqis that knocked down the world trying to. you will find out who really was knocked down the world trade center, because they have papers at the very secret. you may find out it may have been the saudis, okay? >> i am joined now by a mother whose son was killed on 9/11. allison, who has protested the saudi funded event that the presidents golf course for her son who gave his life to save others that they. later became known as the man with the red bandana. for the bandana he wore walk guiding people to safety.

thank you for being with us. you hear the former president defending his decision to hold this event. saying nobody's got into the bottom of the 9/11. what goes through your mind when you hear that? >> well, the first thing, and thank you anderson for inviting me on to your show, tonight to speak to this. the first thing that goes through my mind is that, while, he equivocate regularly. so, there's that. but, what really goes through my mind is that he should simply look at the documents that have just been released recently thanks to president biden that actually, it reports from fbi and from u.s. intelligence investigation that have actually identified numerous officials and individuals working within the saudi government contacting and being in direct contact with the planners and the terrorist and who perpetrated 9/11.

this information is out now. it's heavily redacted. our attorneys have seen less of the reduction information. they have seen more than we have been able to see. but, it is finally coming out. and, one of the things that in rages us as 9/11 family members is that our government, for years has been keeping under wraps information that has been gathered over the years pointing directly to saudi involvement. >> the fact that a former president of the united states though, who clearly knows of the saudi involvement, who spoke about it years ago would make -- do this and holds this, clearly just to make money. it's gotta be particularly galling. i mean, there was some deep belief that he had, that would

be one thing. but, this is just about him making money for his golf course. >> well, that's right. and, that doesn't surprise me. also, i've heard people say that it is his way of getting back to the pga tour for canceling their event there after the events of january six. so, you know, we hear all kinds of things but nothing surprises me about this man now. and, what does surprise me is that professional golfers have been morally compromised, in my view. all three. that is what really surprises me. >> i don't want to just talk about the former president. i want to talk about your son because he just sounds like such an extraordinary person. what was he like? >> well, he was a wonderful person. he was loving, devoted to his

family and his friends. he was hardworking. he had this huge work ethic, even from the time he was a very little boy. he'd get out and earn money. and, he was very honest, could never, never hide the truth. he would always stand up to police who would trouble his friends. he was just a great guy with a wonderful sense of humor. and we miss him deeply. to this day. >> well, alison crowther i appreciate you speaking tonight. and i really appreciate it and wish you the best. >> thank you very much anderson. thank you for inviting me on. >> we'll be right back. new astepro allergy. now available without a prescription. astepro is the first and only 24-hour steroid free spray. while other allergy sprays take hours astepro starts working in 30 minutes. so you can... astepro and go.

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