pride. my priority is getting that constitutional change done first. >> prime minister albanese, thank you so much. congratulations on your victory. >> thanks, jake. thank you for spending your sunday morning with us. fareed zakaria "gps" starts right now. this is "gps," the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria coming to you live from new york. today on the program those who play with fire perish by it. that was chinese president xi's warning this week to president biden over taiwan. the big question, will speaker pelosi travel to the island after all and risk china's ire? if she does, how might china respond? i will talk to the former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, admiral mike mullen about

that. and the latest efforts in ukraine's war. trying to take back territory from russia. also, one of the biggest business fears about a potential chinese attack on taiwan is what happens to tsmc? this is the most valuable company in all of asia. it makes many of the chips in many of your high tech devices. i get a rare interview with the company's chairman and ask him about those fears. first, here's my take. is it possible that despite all the partisan noise and disbelief joe biden is actually managing to do something that he promised during his campaign? govern from the center. the evidence is piling up. if the compromise hammered out on wednesday between chuck schumer and joe manchin passes, it will be the largest

investment in fighting climate change made by the federal government while also being the largest deficit reduction package in a decade. the deal comes on top of the chips and science act. that followed the first bipartisan gun control legislation passed in a generation. and that was preceded by a trillion dollar infrastructure bill that had been one of donald trump's signature campaign promises. governing from the center in today's world looks different than it did in the past. when congress came together in 1980s and '90s to pass big bipartisan bills saving social security, reforming taxes, helping americans with disabilities and reducing air pollution, the authors of the bills were lilionized.

t one big bipartisan effort to address immigration reform stalled in the early 2000s because it was viciously attacked by the extremes of both parties. the d.r.e.a.m. act was a posed by ted kennedy and ori hatch. they were among the oldest members of the senate and embodied an old way of governing that was out of tune with partisan warfare. the revolution of the 1990s changed the republican party and soon washington itself. compromise was considered a sell out, even treasonous. in trying to revive that old model of government biden is

swimming against the tide, but in small ways he's winning. if more bipartisan don't get passed, you can get rewarded for it and that might shift some of the incentives and reduce the toxicity in washington. for the democrats there's a real potential upside here. they are better positioned than republicans to become a big tent party. as a notable brookings study showed, in 2020 biden's victory came from the suburbs. suburban voters seem to be turned off by republican issues like abortion and guns. t being a big tent party is hard. it does mean holding coalitions

together, including people with whom you profoundly disagree. in a large diverse country of 330 million people it's the only way to gain working majorities. some of the greatest democratic accomplishments have taken place in that spirit. franklin roosevelt deferred action on civil rights to pass the new deal. lyndon johnson enlisted the south to support much of his great society legislation. bill clinton had to govern mostly with a republican-controlled congress. when barack obama had congressional majorities, he chose to priority universal health care over other important social issues, including gay marriage. sometimes compromise leads to greater outcomes. the kennedy/hatch immigration bill was a better bill that

either party could have passed. some of joe manchin's arguments in the past year have similarly been credible. he argued against making bills look affordable by shoving in lots of programs, but funding them only in a year in the hope they'll get extended. on climate his view we should not choke off fossil fuels until we have enough green technologies might be self-serving for the senate from west virginia, but it also happens to be an accurate read of where we are today. more importantly, please remember that joe manchin represents a state that donald trump won by about 40 points in 2020. the wonder is surely that he's willing to go as far as he has already. if democrats can keep him with them, by definition we're

building a big tent, one that could encompass the majority of americans. go to cnn.com/fareed for a link to my "washington post" column this week. let's get started. ♪ speaker of the house nancy pelosi who is second in line for the presidency is embarking on a tour of the pacific. the burning question is will one of the stops be taiwan. her office released a statement on the trip this morning with some visits listed. taiwan was absent. it's not the stop she would telegraph. china made it clear that a visit to taiwan would be seen as a great escalation. beijing said it would take forceful measures in response to such a visit. to make sense of this, i want to bring in admiral mike mullen.

she he was the chief military adviser to presidents george w. bush and barack obama. welcome, mike. let me ask you first, isn't it likely that nancy pelosi has decided not to go to taiwan? in other words, when the speaker of the house issues a press release where she lists the places she's going, she did say that the trip will include those stops. is it possible she might make a surprise visit to taiwan even though she hasn't listed it? >> hi, fareed. good to be with you. i would expect that it is very possible that she could still make a surprise visit. as controversial and as important as this has become, i wasn't surprised at all it wasn't part of the release schedule and she's in that area of the world -- she's been there many, many times in that area of

the world. she feels strongly about supporting the kinds of values that we stand for and working with our friends. again, taiwan has been a friend for a long time, and particularly in a bipartisan way. it wouldn't surprise me if she went. >> now, she was speaker of the house for part of the time you were the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. she's a tough, uncompromising person, wouldn't you say? >> yeah, she's a very, very tough woman who knows how to get things done. she cares deeply about the security of our country and the world. she cares deeply about human rights. so i don't think she would do anything she hadn't really thought through. she understands the stakes and in the end i think, while if she

decides to go, there certainly is increased risk with respect to that. i think she would do that thinking through the possibilities and the risks very, very well. >> how do you think we got to this stage? frankly it seems surprising to me that the two leading powers of the world have such bad communications that something like this has become a crisis which has a more hair trigger element, there's much less known about it, both sides have deep mutual distrust. it feels like a breakdown of diplomacy. >> i think that's true. that's been over a better part of a decade as is often the case, these things happen over time. i think the sanctions that have been imposed on china, we're a part of it, the new leadership

and frankly the conviction of president xi in china to impose an authoritarian view, not just in the region, but around the world, i think the lack of trust we've had in the u.s., literally thousands of companies where china has stolen the intellectual property, so i think the tensions coming out of the trump administration were pretty high and that has continued in the biden administration and gotten more difficult. xi jinping had a difficult year. he signed up with putin before the olympics. his economy is not growing anywhere close to what he expects. he's not been successful in his zero covid strategy he imposed. there are many companies who are being shut down. you see the reemergence of

state-owned enterprises and this was supposed to be a big year for him because of the election in november which would generate a third term. there's an awful lot going on internally in china that's not going his way. i would hope that we don't and no one gives xi jinping a relief valve, if you will, or a life ring as he's having so many difficult issues internally over the course of the last year or two. >> let me ask you about your trip to taiwan. you took a trip to taiwan at the president's behest. you led a delegation of american private citizens, mostly former officials. what was your principle takeaway from that visit to taiwan? >> it was in march. it was right after the ukraine invasion by russia. secondly, it was a bipartisan trip. so we had officials from both

sides of the aisle, if you will. there are several takeaways. one which was the president of taiwan is a very comfortable leader. this is a thriving democracy of 24 million people with our values, with our focus on democracy and freedom. 75% of whom support independence from china. thirdly, china has been incredibly coerce if with respect to taiwan over the last several years. while i strongly support the policy of the united states, which is strategic ambiguity, i think because of that coercion whether military or economic or otherwise, it's a little out of balance. it's been mostly in balance with the structure we've had. i think countries like us, particularly the u.s., there's

room for us to rebalance the scale, not the change the policy because the policy is really between taiwan and the mainland. lastly is the impact of what's happened in hong kong. that really has gotten a very sober view in taiwan that was supposed to be, you know, one system. one country, two systems. that obviously has gone by the wayside. there are no discussions i have, fareed, with respect to ukraine that don't eventually lead to the question about whether china is going to do the same thing in taiwan. back to where i started, the taiwan president is very focussed on this. she needs support and has good support from the u.s. taiwan is really isolated from the world.

china's done a good job of doing that. a visit by somebody like speaker pelosi will broaden taiwan's perspective, which i also think is important. >> stay with us. when we come back, i'll ask admiral mullen about the war in ukraine. his views when we e come back. ♪ you had me at allison® 10-speed transmission. ♪ features available on gmc sierra heavy duty. premium and capable. that's professional grade from gmc. the landscape of modern wealth is complex, challenges and opportunities intersect. that's why we created the northern trust institute, using advanced analytics and the best financial expertisof our firm to develop advice that is tested andailored. we help you navigate tax pocy, the art world,

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okay everyone, our mission is to provide complete balanced nutrition for strength and energy. woo hoo! ensure, complete balanced nutrition with 27 vitamins and minerals. and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. ♪ ♪ just days after the russian invasion began the ukrainian city of kerr son fell. it was the first major city to be taken by russia. now ukraine is mounting a counteroffensive to take it back. can it work? joining me again general mike mullen, the former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff.

can this counteroffensive work? the russians have a much larger defense budget than ukraine. can ukraine actually win this? >> well, i think they can, fareed. it's been amazing what the ukrainian army and the ukrainian people have done so far. even though outnumbered, seemingly it's more than evenly balanced because of the continued incompetence of the russian army, mostly army, but russian armed forces, which has been from my perspective somewhat stunning. i think, as i look at this, this is from my interactions with my european friends, europe thinks

this is existential. i think sweden and poland joining nato so quickly, or poised to do so, is an example of that. i believe that putin still wants all of ukraine and he will continue to fight accordingly. i think he's a little bit out of touch in terms of what's going on on the ground and out of touch in how badly his forces have performed. they're better now they were early. unconstrained and unopposed, he'll try to take all of ukraine. this is a long, slog of a fight for putin in particular to gain his objectives. i think he has to be stopped. i don't think he's going to stop. i think he has to be forced to settle with respect to how this comes out. our allies, nato, the united states in particular, have to

keep providing the arms we have at a rate that will allow the ukrainians to continue to oppose and sustain the kind of counteroffensive that you're talking about. the spirit is there, the will, the fight is there. they have to have that capability. on balance, you know, i think the ukrainians will succeed. i just think it's going to take a long, long time to do that. that gets into, you know, what should the united states do? what does the eu do in terms of willingness to suffer to make sure this never happens again? i think that's the case. if you've dealt with the baltics, latvia, lithuania, they think they're next. i would agree with that if we don't stop putin. we have to brace for a long one and put russia and putin in a position to not do this again. >> let me ask you about one very important piece of this in terms of putting pressure on russia.

right now even if russia doesn't go further, it's managed to strangle ukraine economically by shutting down the port of odesa, by shutting down almost all ukrainian exports by sea, which is where the bulk of them used to go. all the grain for example. i've been publicizing the admiral, former nato commander. he's been proposing that the united states and nato open up odesa so ukraine can export to the world. there's a reflagging incident we did around the persian gulf several years ago. there's a way to do it where it doesn't come across as an act of war. it's more noticed to maritimers. is there a solution in your view? could the u.s. navy do something to unlock odesa? >> it's a decision for president biden and honestly i've been

mystified we haven't put u.s. navy ships up into the black sea to create the kind of corridor that you're speaking of and that has been mentioned before by other individuals who served. it is doable. the worry that i have is the longer we delay that, the harder it's going to be. those who operate on the sea, both on the russian and u.s. side, understand that environment and different from the use of, quote, unquote, potential use of nuclear weapons. there's nothing that going to happen at sea that's going to turn this into world war iii. you now see the human carnage associated with it. i think the u.s. and our allies have to do more to control the black sea and control the sea lane so we can get that grain to so many needy countries who are on the edge of food insecurity

when this war started an are more deeply into it. >> admiral mullen, always a pleasure to have you on. thank you, sir. we'll be back. new poligrip power hold and seal. clinically proven to give strongest hold, plus seals out 5x more fd particles. fear no food. new poligrip power hold and seal. we're carvana we created arand new way for you to sell your car go to carvana answer a few questions and our techno wizardry calculates your car's value and gives you a real offer in seconds we'll come to you pay you on the spot then pick up your car that's it at carvana

taiwan's semi conductor manufacturing company, it's an old school name for one of the most modern state of the art companies in the world. if you've never heard of the company known as tsmc, you want to listen closely. its products are semiconductors, the heart of all high tech.

their chips may very well be in your cell phone, computer, your car and tv. they manufacture chips for the biggest tech brands all over the world. american brands most notable apple, chinese brands and europe brands and more. tsmc is the most valuable company in all of asia. it's the tenth most valuable company in the entire world. the company is building a $12 billion advanced chip manufacturing plant in arizona, thanks to expected subsidies from the u.s. government which passed this weekend, the chips act. why am i telling you about tsmc now? as "the wall street journal" said, the world relies on one chip maker in taiwan, leaving everyone vulnerable. when china threatens forceful measures over speaker pelosi's plans to visit taiwan, fears of an attack on taiwan rise and

many in the tech and business world think immediately of tsmc. i had the pressure of a rare interview with its chairman. what would happen to taiwan and to the taiwanese economy if china were to invade? >> of course the war brings no winners. everybody is losers and people in taiwan have earned their democratic testimony in taiwan and they want to choose their way of life and we think that, indeed, the chip supply is a critical business to the economy of taiwan, but having a war in taiwan, probably the chip is not

the most important thing we should worry about because this invasion if it comes, it's the destruction of the world order. there's no -- the gio political landscape would totally change. >> do you worry that the -- does that create a danger for taiwan or is it the deterrent? people talk about the tsmc shield. you could equally see beijing saying we need to have total control of this -- this is the most valuable asset and it's outside our borders. >> okay. nobody can control tsmc by

force. if you take a military force or invasion, you will render tsmc's factory nonoperable because this is such a sophisticated manufacturing facility. it depends on the real time correction with the outside world, with europe, with japan, with the u.s., from materials to chemicals to spare parts to engineering software diagnosis. it's everybody's effort to make this factory operable. if you take it over by force, you can no longer make it operable. in terms of the china business, today they compose about 10% of our business. we only work with consumers. we don't work with military

entities. we only work with the consumer market. we think a consumer pulse is important and it is vibrant. if they need us, it's not a bad thing. >> expand on that. why is it not a bad thing? >> oh, because our interruption will create great economic turmoil on either side. in china, suddenly their most advanced components supply disappears, and it's -- it is an interruption i must say. people will think twice on this. i think the ukraine war -- i

think we should draw lessons from it. people think ukraine war connects with taiwan straight. they're very different. if you think about it in parallel, the ukraine war is not good for any of the sides of the western world, for russia, for ukraine. it's loose, loose, loose scenarios. both sides ought to draw lessons. i think they do. they should use those lessons to look at the lens on taiwan. how can we avoid war? how can we ensure no -- the world economy's engine continues humming and let's have fair competition. that's what i think. next on "gps" more with the share of asia's biggest company,

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we are back here on "gps" bringing you more of my interview with one of the most important people of the world you never heard of. the chairman of chip maker tsmc. it makes the world tech run. it's true. their high kwquality chips are many of your products. do you have an iphone, a lap tap or desk top? apple is a major client of tsmc. i wanted to hear more about how the company achieves all this in the shadow of china. >> from your perspective, what explains the taiwan miracle?

this is now a place that has grown at 5% a year for five decades. there are very few places in the world that have managed that. what explains the taiwan miracle? >> looking from outside it appears to be a miracle. for the people working hard on the island it is just the history of fighting. i think, to be honest, compare with other nations, particularly in asia. i think one of the key components is taiwan is a peaceful society. it maintains peace since 1949 to today, 70 years it's a peaceful island. during the time that taiwan has transformed from a authoritarian state into a democratic state, a

democratic society, peacefully, this is marvelous. if you look at nations around the world, having such a smooth transition, peaceful transition, we are fortunate to be honest. if you talk about the miracles, i also think there's one things that very distinctly different. it's the education system. when i was young, only 10% of the young people entered college or universities. today 80% of the young people have college or university degrees. the government set up many colleges, universities. every kid, if you want to go to university, you can go as long as you spend time. that has created a good quality of population in taiwan posing

for change ahead. that's why i think it's very, very special. >> why is it so difficult for anyone to make the chip that is you make? i'm thinking now about the seven nanometer. americans have great companies like intel. the chinese pour tens of billions of dollars into new companies, but no one can make the chips you make. why? >> well, they can, just a few years later. >> that's all the difference in this business. >> you're right. that's all the difference. i think the -- we treat the semiconductor technology itself as a business, as a science. it's not assembly workers.

of course, i credit this to be working with our partners. even during covid time, our engineers used ar to work with engineers in netherlands, work with engineers in california. that's how close we work together. together we pushed the frontier of the semiconductor technologies among -- i cannot tell you everything why, but that's -- >> you're not going to tell me the secret formula for coca-cola. finally, tell me what you think taiwan will look like in the future, technologically, economically. what are your hopes? >> i hope that we don't get

discriminated because we're close to china. no matter your relationship with china, taiwan is taiwan. you have to look at taiwan as a -- by itself a vibrant society. we want to unleash the innovation for the world into the future continuously and not to be scared because we have some dispute with our neighbors and that is not worth it. >> it seems to me you're saying to the world, correct me if i'm wrong, don't be scared by what china is saying because the chinese will never be able to take over the taiwanese economy. the taiwanese economy is built on this global collaboration, on

trust, on openness. they'll find they've taken over nothing if they come in. >> correct, yes. i do believe so. the war can only create problems on all three sides and that is -- we need to prepare for the worst, but hope for the best. >> you said about the ukraine war, it's lose, lose, lose. your hope is for win, win, win. >> at least not lose, yes. if you have a war, then it will be that. if it's peaceful among the competition strategies on all three sides, i think that's -- nobody in the business world wants to see a war happen and why do we jump again into another trap? >> thank you for taking so much

time. >> thank you very much, fareed. enjoyed talking to you. next on "gps," hungary's prime minister warned last weekend that europe might become a mixed race world. i have news for him, hungary's great strength has been the diversity of his population. i'll give him a history lesson i'll give him a history lesson when we barcode beat conductor. come back. aller! zeize the day. with z zyrtec. you might have heard of carvana and that we sell cars online. we believe buying a car should be something that gets you hyped up. and that your new car ought to come with newfound happiness and zero surprises. and all of us will stop at nothing to drive you happy. we'll drive you happy at carvana.

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now for the last look. this coming week at the influential cpac conference in dallas, alongside donald trump, ted cruz and more than 20 republican members of congress, conservatives are welcoming a foreign leader.

hun hungary's victor urban. in another speech he warned that europe was in danger of becobecoming a mixed race. we are willing to mix with one another, but we don't want to become peoples of mixed race. scholars found that the c conquerers in hungary migrated from as far as siberia. the hungarian language is different than that of its neighboring countries with similarities to fininish and estonia. they have the highest prevalence of jewish ancestry outside of

israel. the idea of a pure hungarian race is a fallacy. his comments fly in the face of what has made his own country great. hungary was a partner in the empire that was among the most diverse territories in history. scholars wrote in the "new york times" it has at least 11 officially recognized languages and a lot of religions including catholicism, yjudaism and islam. when orders were given to attack serbia in 1914, they were given in a dozen languages.

urban has a specific focus for his current ire. his speech singled out a specific group, muslims. he said, menacmenacingly, islam constantly moving towards europe. he is turning a blind eye to history. muslims have been present in europe since the 8th century when the dynasty conquered the peninsula. they expanded to central europe at the height of their power and attempted but failed to capture vienna twice.

today muslims make up 0.4% of the population of hungary. that is some threat. there is a gruesome history surrounding rhetoric like orban's in his own country. it led to some of the harshest laws against jews, mostly copied from the nurm berg laws in germany. today hungary has about 100,000 jews. one of orban's own aides resigned in disgust, describing the speech as a nazi text. if there's still honorable conservatives left at cpac, they should disinvite, victor orban.

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i'm brian stelter live in new york. this is "reliable sources." we examine the story behind the story and figure out what's reliable. the claimed economist paul krugman is here talking about the economic roller coaster. plus, we'll talk to a reporter about what it's like covering candidates when they're campaigning against you. later, attacked for being accessible. we'll rewind this tape o