we asked the state republican party for a statement that we stay shared on this program. they told us that the wyoming gop doesn't take sides and that they're neutral in this election. that is not a true statement. as we have reported, the state party has in fact taken some clear anti cheney positions. we wanted to clarify that the party may not have formally endorsed a candidate, but it has been neutral in this race. >> the news continues. when i handed over to laura coates and cnn tonight. laura? >> thanks anderson, nice to see you. i'm laura coats, and this is cnn tonight on huge breaking news. the u.s. has now killed the top terror target. more than 20 years after 9/11, the hunt for bin laden's number two is now over. al-qaeda leader ayman al-zawahiri was killed in a drone strike in afghanistan's capital, of kabul. president biden addressed the nation with details earlier

this evening. >> justice has been delivered. and this terrorist leader is no more. after carefully considering the clear and convincing evidence of a location, i authorized a precision strike that would remove him from the battlefield once and for all. one week ago, after being advised of the conditions were optimal. i gave the final approval to go get him! >> biden described al-zawahiri, as a terrorist to quote, carved a trail unquote. of violence against u.s. citizens, reminding that he was the mastermind at the bombing of the uss coal in 2000 which killed 17 u.s. sailors. the fbi just now updated its most wanted terrorist status for al-zawahiri with the word deceased. al-zawahiri was killed in a precise strike as the president on a balcony of a safe house with two hellfire missiles according to a u.s. official.

no american personnel were on the grounds in kabul at the time of the strike. no civilian casualties either according to the president. the death of al-zawahiri comes alive in years after u.s. forces mastered and took out osama bin laden who was hiding as you recall in pakistan the time. to president biden says about just how long this strike took. >> let me make it clear again tonight, that no matter how hard it takes, no matter where you hide, if you are a threat to our people, the united states will find you and take you out. >> joining me now to discuss this huge news -- richard clark national security council under both presidents bush and president clinton. remember, he originally warned the u.s. about the al-qaeda threat in the months before 9/11. and new yorkers staff writer dexter phil kid, who went up

look to prosperous outstanding reporting on afghanistan when he was there working for the new york times. gentlemen, nice to see both of you today. when we begin with you, if i can dexter, because it's pretty unbelievable to think about where we are today, 11 years later. at the very least. and nearly 20 years since 9/11 now have the death of this top terrorist leader, you've written about this, -- you've written about afghanistan in particular. tell me why this is so significant? >> well, al-zawahiri was an old guy. and he was past his prime and not blowing a lot of things up but he was still an inspiration to the group. i want to say what really struck me about the strike was

he was killed, you called it a safe house, it's in the neighborhood of kabul called sherpur that's what's probably the nicest neighborhood in capital, big grandiose houses that's where all the drug dealers live. it was in a house that was apparently owned by aides to -- the taliban interior minister. and first class terrorist himself. and so, there we have it, the taliban when the united states agreed to pull out, the taliban agree not to harbor terrorists in its midst. here we are, they have the most wanted man in the world, who's living in a very nice house, i work for the new york times, the sherpur house where he was just a few blocks away. so, he's right there honored guests, i think so much for the peace agreement. >> richard, i want to go to you because the idea that hiding in plain sight essentially, they idea of being in kabul, in particular, tommy the significance of now having killed the number two man, osama bin laden? >> it took us almost 25 years to do it, he first appeared on

a hit list authorized by american president in 1999. i want to say getting up now. so, it's good that this current counterterrorism teams was actually able to do this. it's remarkable, it took a great superpower according to a century to do. this >> what do you make of the reason of that though? why did take so long to do that? was it the lack of intelligence, was it a political reason, what is the reason? well >>, different periods of time, different reasons. i think hearing the juror -- was in the priority. but, the significance of this

head is as dexter said, it's evidence that the taliban regime, it's not running afghanistan, is cooperating with al-qaeda. the number of al-qaeda fighters in afghanistan has doubled in the last year according to a recent un report. so, it's clear that al-qaeda was trying to make a come back, it's still trying to make a comeback, and that they were doing so with the support of the interior ministry. who is a known terrorist himself. so, for all of the pledges that we've had from the taliban, that there wouldn't be like their old selves will battle turns out to be -- and they are backing a terrorist organization, we can expect them to continue to. >> on that point, i see you chuckling dexter, i know it's because you obviously agree.

when you think about, it the american people watching and thinking about the why now, the idea of these pledges, these agreements really being it seems like a fools errand at this point, disingenuous to say the least. what does this say about the security of americans, right now? >> well, look if you go back to the agreement that was signed with the taliban, negotiate by the united states, in negotiated by the trump administration completed by the biden administration. i spent a lot of time with the taliban when they were negotiating the agreement. i don't know how many people outside of the trump and biden administration actually believed the promises of the taliban at the time, that they wouldn't harbor terrorists. but i certainly didn't and it was absolutely apparent to me that there were simply biding time and saying whatever they needed to say because they knew the united states wanted to leave. so, that kind of the place where we find us now. the united states was able to conduct a drone strike today. but we don't have any people on the ground, any intelligence assets on the ground. >> is that promising in a sense

is a promising in the sense that president biden said that he was gonna pull out obviously didn't want the controversy surrounding that, the idea of no civilian says have been harmed, there is no military presence, boots on the ground at their able to accomplish that, is that validating in a way, what president biden sought to do or this indication that it's far more concerning? >> well, it's validating for now. but let's see. let's see. it's hard, richard knows is far better than i do, it's hard to run intelligence network if you don't know anyone on the ground. >> richard, when you think about that notion you've spoken about these issues, you've been outspoken about it with the concerns even before 9/11 i might add. i wonder, when you look at this is this essentially the idea of another person being able to rise up in the ranks, they may have been elimination at this point, but if as you both describing the idea of these agreements that really were not truly agreements to be abided by, the idea of it having an

cavill in particular, are you concerned of the idea of them having to step into the rule right now? >> i'm more concerned about the hundreds if not thousands of al-qaeda terrorists, scattered around in small camps throughout afghanistan. it's one thing to find the leader, you can usually do that with a lot of effort. you can usually be able to take him out at some point. but how do you take out 1200, 2400 terrorist scattered around in small groups. there's names we don't know. because we don't have people there on the ground. we should've kept a small counter-terrorism force in afghanistan. and we didn't. some of us said that if you pulled out, that they would be recrudescence of the terrorist groups. that's happened. it's also by the way happening in syria where isis detainees and there's tens of thousands, or still -- it's under guard but there is still there to. the story here and on counterterrorism is not 1990s --

it's not over. it's never over. you cannot take your eye off -- with the biden administration did over the weekend. they will come for us. >> continue to do in terms of identifying another known terrorists and taking them out as well, you are saying that there is an existing list that must be marched through? >> we need to do whatever we can, including taking out leadership, that's not all we can do we need to have a robust program, they can't just be a program of violence and needs to be a program of counterterrorism ideologies as well. ideologies the way you win this in the long run, and this is a long game. >> dexter phil ken, thank you so much. >> the killing have al-zawahiri, victory for president in a time a political turmoil. so, what could this mean not only for him but also for his party, 99 days ahead of the midterms? politics always finds a way

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about the u.s. military strike that killed the most wanted terrorist in the world. we know these strikes can actually help our presidents popularity, as odd as that sounds to even say and think about. polling in 2011, for example, saw majority of americans gave donald trump credit for the death of isis leader -- and obama, he saw a fixed point bump after the death of osama bin laden. we'll see but the death of al-zawahiri those for biden's numbers, but it comes amid a string of good news for the president. between falling gas prices, a bipartisan win to boost -- and now, an apparent deal in the senate to fight climate

change and lower drug prices and forced corporations to play higher taxes. -- now with the fabulous cast we have today, i'm joined by spectrum news political anchor errol louis, dr. abdul el-sayed, and cofounder of the dispatch, jonah goldberg. i thought this part was redundant -- everything we talk about today. this kind of an ick factor when i say the idea of, how will this boost approval ratings? it's still a loss of life, i'll be at one that said terrorist. but we do gauge and judge this in this way, can we not? what we do because he's the commander-in-chief. will this give him kind of a rally around the flag for a moment? what do you think? >> the rally around the president from non israel. here we are, and i think that's the world we live in these days. i suspect that it will be hard to disaggregate from all the others.

this is the best week, ten days of the biden presidency, arguably, in terms of the winds he racked up. it'll be hard to disentangle this from the other things. there are a lot of legitimate questions still to be asked. why was the head of al-qaeda welcome to live in downtown kabul, for example? >> we called it the safe house, and i just said no, we're not thinking like -- it wasn't like in oblivion. they're talking about in the heart of a well to do area. you're right about -- it feels too soon, and yet this is how politics works, right? the idea of the polar coaster number one. the commander-in-chief factor. but there's still that moment of, is that how you want to be judging things? >> to your point, the moral

side of things. we should not aspire to live in a society where we celebrate or give a president a bump in the polls for the loss of any life. i do think that it's worth thinking about that for a moment. at the same, time one of the moments where president biden's presidency started to go south was the pull out of afghanistan. the worry that people had was that this was gonna make americans less safe considering the past 20 years. whether or not that's founded on a basis, who knows. but this does feel like he's going back and trying to correct that. the other part of this is that it comes on a week, maybe two weeks of momentum, whether it's inflation reduction or the fact that we are seeing pick up in terms of where we think things are gonna go -- building on that momentum is

really important. >> the squeamish mince is appropriate, right? but warriors make war. this is the business. this is what we have to do as commander-in-chief. president eisenhower, you know, helped save the world for our western democracy. he was elevated to the presidency as a result. i thought it was telling during his address that the president talk not just about 9/11 but talked about the uss cole, the attacks on the embassies in kenya and tanzania, making it clear that this was part of a long, multi administration -- those things happened during the clinton administration. this is a long term project of the united states. defend our borders, defend our people, to take the war to those who have attacked us. i think we should be grateful that it did happen. politics aside. >> i have to say, maybe it's just me, but i'm a little concerned that this happened now. not because i don't think that the president -- the idea of, did you feel that we were unsafe enough to -- osama bin laden was that overarching, looming threat. when i hear about someone being

taken out in this manner, i immediate concern goes to -- where we endangering national security wise? are we now in danger yet again, given the pull out from afghanistan, given that there are obviously, other issues, domestically happening, shall we say, domestic and foreign terrorists? we've seen that play out. does that concern you know? well that hit home for people talking about national security? >> personally, i think al-zawahiri needed to go. this is guy going back to the coal, is has a lot of american blood on his hands. if you have the opportunity, you take it. yeah, people can politically second guess it, they can question the timing. i've a president we've had, i questioning of convenient timing and all that. that's a reason why you have to

ask questions. did we know he was there for a long time? i give him the benefit of the doubt. i think they had the opportunity and took it. >> i don't question his timing. i don't question the idea of, it was calculated politically. i guess my point is, does this now raise concerns that americans now have about national security more broadly as opposed to the ideas of -- the economy and -- jobs, other creations. the fact that this is now happened -- does this make people say, hold on, where we unsafe in the first place? >> laura, the worry i have with this is that the war on terror has been a drum that every president can go back to and beat anytime things get tough. and i hate to see this president, who closed the door on the war on terror go back and beat the war on terror trump. because you're right. it does create this psychology of, well, what's lurking around the next corner? is the president keeping us safe? the only person you can turn to is the president. i just worry that we are

imputing that same psychology of the war on terror, and the downside of that psychology is that has created, transmitted -- we saw john bolton talking to your colleagues a few weeks or go about the coup d'état he helped to plan. >> that was a bizarre moment. let's go back for a second, check. >> but the fact is that we had an attempted coup to tie here in the united states. i worry about what's the long term consequences of continuing to go back to this war on terror psychology that people are not safe, you have to be worried that there is something lurking right there -- >> if you want to unite a country, i mean, the sad reality is, the us versus them 's -- that seems to work. >> something we really do need to know is a lot more details about why was he hanging out in downtown kabul? what did the taliban do? did they provide any intelligence? did they not know of this? do we have to have a different kind of conversation with them? what does this mean diplomatically? there are a lot of important questions here.

for the president to, number one, take action, yes, they had this intelligence. i mention what the scandal it would be if they knew where he wasn't failed to take action. that would take us back to the uss poll. >> they had a model home. they've known for some kind of preparation -- right? >> i think they need not to really be transparent and level with the american people about what is going on in afghanistan now. because you're raising exactly the right question -- is there some growing threat out there? did our withdrawal sort of open the door to some real problems? or do we have maybe a quiet understanding of what the taliban -- >> gentlemen, errol wants transparency in washington d. c. is. a tear came to my eye. it didn't quite do the london's all teared on my face, -- will come back to you guys. today, our tribute to nba star and activist bill russell who passed away at the age of 88. a trail blazer who did what was unpopular at great personal risk. when we come back.

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what if i told you that there was a time when we can stand up from what we believe in, no matter the personal professional consequences and not become a political pariah. and still be thought of as a team player, and still win in the end. win repeatedly. and say, you vaguely saw that somewhere in a movie and at one point in time only it was real. and the man who did it, was larger than life. at six foot ten, bill russell was a man to certainly look up to, he wasn't just a basketball player he would tell you that he was a man who played basketball. but a man, a human being first. but not more worried about playing games, winning, or not losing his fan base but doing what was right. but as much as 11 champions, 11 mind you, with the boston celtics in the historical marker being the first black head coach, in any major team. before he was inducted into the

hall of fame, bill russell was a man who defended muhammad ali, he's refusal to be drafted. while he was red auerbach's great player, he would go on to march on the washington for jobs and freedom. he would sit in the very first row, watching dr. martin luther king's i have a dream speech. went to black teammates refused service as a hotel coffee shop, he refused to sit back and take it. >> i told ray, were leaving because it's important to me that everybody everywhere knows that the black players are deciding will stand up for themselves. >> he knew the power of sports to shine a spotlight, even in the areas where some wanted us to look away. he would spend his life standing up for those that he saw is doing the right thing. -- from racism, it didn't shield him from prison by any stretch of the imagination. this fight for equality here on earth would earn him the presidential medal of freedom. and in another arena,

non-honored to the possibility of dignify treatment of black women in a world where no man had gone before. michele nichols, one of the first black women cast as a main character on television, depicted not as a stereotype, but i think you know where as lieutenant -- before we even get to her work recruiting women of color into the space program. and it's an impact that may have been cut short, if not for a chance encounter with somebody, bill russell also knew. >> here advisor came over and said miss nichols, how are you and data, he said listen, there is someone here who said he is your biggest fan, i me said, he's desperate to meet you. dr. martin luther king, my leader is walking toward me, not ten feet away with a beautiful smile on his face. i said well, i'm leaving he said you cannot. for the first time on television, we will be seeing as we should be seen every day. as an intelligent, quality,

beautiful people who can saying, dance, and can go into space. >> i ever wonder why emma truckee, people. but she herself would find herself and controversy when she was a part of that kiss. that first interracial kiss on television. even science fiction would not -- television, we will be seeing as we should be seen every day. as an intelligent, quality, beautiful people who can saying, dance, and can go into space. >> i ever wonder why emma truckee, people. but she herself would find herself and controversy when she was a part of that kiss. that first interracial kiss on television. even science fiction would not shield her from criticism there. newark captain kirk.

but she used her platform to illustrate what could be, and did so on unapologetically. now maybe one of the reasons this feels so foreign to us now is because of how we think about politics these days. where are those on the national stage willing to do what is right, even in the face of political backlash. yes, there are some but are we past the point where we can see past the team they play for, to acknowledge one simple truth. when right is right and wrong is wrong. is there any world here or beyond where we can expect this to happen, look at what's in the news when it all becomes about one side against the other. where are the heroes that can make us see past our political spectrum, maybe we are those people, i've heard names recently like mike pence, liz cheney, cassidy hutchinson, thrown out of our modern-day heroes. and i wonder if you think that they are. after all the right attacks --

the traders where the left insist on a purity that may no longer be reasonable. how dare you compliment, dare to come compartmentalize either all that or all good. millions of people watch miss nichols flies fictional space under the banner of star flee. russell, or the green and wide of the boston celtics but their heroism was not defined by the uniforms they wore. as we mark their passing, i'm wondering can we see past the red or the blue, or the r, or the d and find any modern heroes, who simply can say right is right. much more in a moment. thoughts on the table on russell and by the way who is the wrestle of today? when cnn tonight continues. by the way, i'm obviously -- that's already settled. thank you, be right back. [peaceful music plays]

[soft cymbal crash]

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weekend whose lives serve as a reminder of what we're missing a maybe and our national conversation. people who just do what's right because it's right, and reflect maybe our wildest fantasies of what humankind can actually accomplish. errol abdul and gianna, the question i have for all of you today, is who is today's bill russell? i don't mean the basketball player, obviously i'm a bit jaded -- but the question is, who is that notion of a bill russell? that essentially is unapologetically standing up, but not getting creamed for it. not village fired and made into a pariah. we have that person in the longer? >> i would offer a couple folks. but first, i want to say, and their time they didn't have twitter. unfortunately, what feeds these algorhithms is the ability to

create all or nothing and then dissect dozen to camps around all or nothing. >> the oscar systems. >> the us versus them's. until you find yourself on both sides. the other thing is a lot of these folks, even in politics, even at the time, never achieved hero status until well after their time. it's hard, right? what makes them heroes they stood up against criticism. there was criticism in their time even with nichelle nichols. we talked about that. i'd like to raise two people -- serena williams, and similar athlete. -- her work on black maternal mortality, which is 3 to 4 times higher than white maternal mortality. it came after her own's experience not being diagnosed with what could've been lethal embolism when she was delivering -- she's done so much work both of us and advocate and also with her incredible means to be able to take on this issue. but another is someone who made his mark as a restaurateur and then realized that he had an opportunity not just to feed patrons with the money to eat at his restaurants, but feed

with world. he's been doing that. we have those people. to ask for them to be in our politics, in this particular moment of polarization, it's tough. and i hope that 30 years from now, we can look back at this moment and say, you are the folks who really stood up. you are the heroes in our politics. >> it's a great thought, this idea of, if you think about it, how often have you heard the phrase that history will judge us? how will history view you? i wonder sometimes about whether that has any persuasive value to people. especially in politics. because it means you have to have shame, right? i'm gonna be so embarrassed and scared, and i might be judged badly one day, but i'm not gonna do today when i want to do. but i don't think that shame is not motivating, galvanizing factor for people that they think about as, how can i become that next great here? >> shame is the stick, but you have to keep in mind the carrot that bill russell could never have imagined, this multi year, hundred million dollar contracts, where the players who might even consider stepping out on a limb on any issue, whether it's something like maternal mortality, or trying to -- or god forbid, get involved with something that might be controversial and cause him some problems, you know, to turn down 100 million dollars, you know, $200 million, to turn down these contracts, some of

these are kids who either didn't finish or never really went to college. it becomes a very different kind of an equation. it's terrible to say it, you know, but one wonders. if you put it out there, would bill russell have been the same? first of all, magnificent player and a way that's just not even -- even michael jordan never won 8 championship in a row. they dominated all of sports, really, for an entire decade. unheard of. almost inconceivable at this point. but my sense is that that is why it is keeping so many talented cultural figures, especially in sports, from taking the chance. there's a lot more at stake. >> i think your point is a good one. there's a little bit of the

nostalgia problem here. we have this quasi-memory of these people, but russell paid a price for the things he did. arthur ashe paid a price. lots of people -- it's a sign of their success that we think back on them and say, these are sort of cultural -- mount rushmore type figures. it's difficult to know in the moment who's those people are in part because, i think the 20 point is really important. the incentive structure we have today's, it values being performative over having and integrity. it rewards people -- negative attention is better than no attention. you saw that in the white house for four years, we see that in other places, and if you can get a big following, and if you can get the right people to hate you, that helps you. so people pick fights and then an era of negative polarization to attract allies to their side -- ted cruz does this, aoc does

this, lots of politicians do this. i think one of the problems we get is that we have -- what politicians to be heroes when the incentive system says we want them to be celebrities. >> also the idea of what a high-rise. we're calling people heroes who follow the law -- it's like that chris rock episode where he's talking about, i'm a good fall or, take care of my kids -- you're supposed to do that! you don't have the backing in the law to try to undermine the election, you aren't supposed to overturn it. you are called to testify in front of congress -- you're supposed to do that! you showed up, right? congressman liz cheney -- the wyoming voters had to say about, this is somebody, what does she do? get a hero title, the heroine, was the idea of the election was fair. which is a voter who voted in line with the trump policies more often than not. hear what the voters had to say about it. >> look at how she's done trump. she's supposed to be supporting him.

she's a republican, for crying out loud! >> i found her work on the january six committee just repulsive. she has been an embarrassment. it's a witch hunt. >> the only response to she's a republican is she's an american. in america, we have a democracy that one has to uphold. all of them took an oath to it. to the point of sports that, to take a second, you talked about putting those multi million dollars on the line. that's exactly what colin kaepernick did when he decided to take in the. he lost his opportunity to continue to play football. he was blackballed from the nfl, and he took a stand on an issue that the world came around on after the murder of george floyd. so i would argue that he is a hero. here's the thing, he's been vilified on the right. and the reality of it is i think, but two years from now, i think history will smile kindly on him and what he did

and what he stood for. but it's not necessarily getting the praise in this moment. and he put it on the line. same with ali -- ali had the chance to come back. it doesn't look like that's gonna be the case for kaepernick. heroism has a cost. it's not something you can just do and go back home and you kind of wake up the next morning. it's something that really takes over. >> the kaepernick example is perfect, because it gives people a sense, a taste of what it was really like to be muhammad ali when you're fighting against the draft board. or martin luther king, for that middle. >> olympians on the podium who held up their fist. they were not revered in time. they speak about how badly they were treated in those moments. moving on to the idea of how history judges where the here and now comes into play. i will note, though, one of the most memorable instagram posts that i've seen was of bill russell. he was kneeling with the presidential medal of freedom around his neck, praising the athlete -- that dared to take a knee, like the kaepernick's. we'll be right back, and i had, we unpack that video apology from actor will smith to comedian chris rock. see, i said chris rock's name, and now we're gonna talk about

that as well. after that stunning slap at the oscars, as the world waits to find out what rock found about it, we'll take you around the table for our own analysis next. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ "shake your thang" by salt n pepa my a1c stayed here, it needed to be here. ruby's a1c is down with rybelsus®. my a1c wasn't at goal, now i'm down with rybelsus®. mom's a1c is down with rybelsus®. (♪ ♪) in a clinical study, once-daily rybelsus® significantly lowered a1c better than a leading branded pill. rybelsus® isn't for people with type 1 diabetes.

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all right the nfl has another player controversy on its hands. fans are watching to see what roger goodall's gonna do about it. cleveland browns quarterback deshaun watson, he's been accused of sexual misconduct by 24 women. he has of course 23 of them in different lawsuits while repeatedly denying any of the allegations. the nfl conducted its own investigation, independent officer gave watson a six game suspension. six game suspension. both watson and the nfl players association say that it will not appeal the ruling, the nfl commissioner has the final say, the nfl had originally asked for a full season suspension, so what's -- roger goodall do now. back with me errol louis, abdullah saied, and jonah goldberg. aaron, let me ask you what's your take on this because i feel like i'm being sarcastic, i feel like there is not a whole lot of consensus consistency in the disciplinary

actions of the nfl. am i wrong? >> well, unfortunately you are somewhat right to tell you the truth. if you look through the document what they did was go back as the court might do, look back at what they've signed as punishment in the past when they said well, under the circumstances six games about what they usually do in this kinds of cases. >> nonviolent they called. it >> they call it nonviolent. that is the opposite of leadership, the opposite of progress, that is the definition of the status quo. let's not change anything, this is what we usually do, we'll do it one more time. >> why do something different? >> well, you do something different because this abort behavior will never stop unless you punish. at the idea of maybe missing a season, -- serious financial flight which is hard to do we have a quarter

of a billion dollar deal. >> which they gave him after the allegations already out there? >> they structured in a way where he got a bunch of money. >> i want his lawyer. >> it won't change until it changes, they gotta make some changes. i think everybody watching this i think the nfl which is in fact susceptible to public pressure. we'll wait to hear from the fans, advertisers, sponsors, the players and anybody else. so, anybody that has an opinion about -- they made clear, they're not gonna change anything unless they have to. >> just away and, we talked about colin kaepernick, man took a knee and of police violence against black people, got thrown out the lead. sean watson sexually violated, allegedly, sexually violated 26 women. and he's gonna sit for six games. the thing about it is the nfl is gonna have -- you get a sternly warded angry comment from goodell. could they know how they make their money. they make their money because

deshaun watson takes the field. it's an every incentive that they have to keep them on their. they've just been handed the situation, they'll be very, very angry about it at the end there gonna say justices been done. deshaun watson's gonna. play >> there's that part of it too, i wonder what you think about it, the idea that these aren't criminal prosecutions, you know i'm a prosecutor i think of the days of due process. i hear a lot of commentary people made about the court of public opinion. the me too movement, the idea of cancel culture, all gets conflated into one conversation. why should he hate -- if nothing's been proven in the court room, court of law? >> there are things that you can do that wouldn't violate the law, that would cost you your job at cnn, right? >> there is a long list. >> a very long let that one can do. >> even some of those things you deserve to lose your job not all of them because, institutions have -- to protect the long-term integrity and name and reputation of their institutions. we have a tragedy of the commons sort of way when we think about this stuff when it comes to these institutions.

i do think it's worth not letting the players union off the hook here. this feels like very much, a winking, nodding, nfl got a little more grief than the players union with the players union was in on this. and for critics of policing unions, it's the same sort of principle here. police unions, i understand, they have to protect cops regardless of what the accusations are. but sometimes those defenses are less defensible than others. and this is one of those. cases >> you need to appreciate the fact that the victims here are some of the most disempowered people in our society, phenomenally women of color has businesses rely on the good name. so, deshaun washington who has 250 -- whatever it is he can pick up every single one of them 1 million dollars. and he still gets to keep $204 million. and in the end they all go away. this is not gonna get proven in the court of law because it's in no one's incentive to have that happen. given the fact that all of us, the nfl exists because all of us tune in to watch it, i think

you're right, errol, need to raise our voices and decide we're not gonna watch this and have to sit there and realize that all of this money is being paid and spent on behalf of someone who has systematically abused low income women of color. >> we sat and watched the oscars, we know about hollywood, and money, making the world around i mean to tell you, i real quick i want a lightning round your thoughts here, when you saw the apology from will smith, did you go, that's the ticket or you like, was that march 2022, why now? >> why now? why this crappy video that nobody asked for? >> how do you feel about? it >> well, my impression is a pretty good actor, he's wrestling out loud with the idea of how could i've done something wrong, when i know that i'm not a piece of crap. so, he's kind of like let's ask that question a little bit differently. why would somebody do that if

they weren't -- which is what i think most of the world thinks about. >> still -- >> so close. [laughs] i was like he's gonna get. it fresh prince of bel air. oh man. >> i looked up to will smith when i was younger, i he, showed us a certain way of being and to see them continue to try and wrestle with this in a way that is -- frustrating. >> rules, others agree i mean nobody asked me errol louis, abdul el-sayed, jonah goldberg thank you so much, we'll be right back.

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