with over to laura coates, anderson, i'm laura coats and this is cnn tonight. and look, i gotta get right to it i know we're supposed to think about politics and other notions today, but i gotta tell you about alex jones because i've been thinking about it all day since i heard and watched that testimony. alex jones spent so many years trying to get people to believe in his conspiracy theories to pretend that sandy hook the tragedy never even happened and

the precious lives that were lost, they somehow never even existed. he even said at one point that the parents were actors. obviously, that's not even cruel, it's absurd. because it did happen. and they obviously existed. well you know, there might have been a kind of poetic justice that occurred today then. because something else he claims never existed, text messages, communications about sandy hook. well it turns out they also exist. the attorney for the parents of one victims suing alex jones for damages over his defamatory statements made sure that we all knew who was lying. >> so you did get my text messages? you said you didn't. nice trick. >> [laughs] yes mr. jones, indeed. you didn't give those text messages to us. you don't know where those came from? do you know where i got these? >> no. >> mr. jones, did you know that

12 days ago, 12 days ago, your attorneys messed up and sent me an entire digital copy of your entire cell phone with every text message you have sent for the past two years. and when informed, did not take any steps to identify it as privileged, or protected in any way. as of two days ago, it felt free and clear into my possession. that is how i know you lied to me when you said you did not have text messages about sandy hook. did you know that? >> see, i told you the truth, this is your perry mason moment. i gave them my phone. >> in discovery, if you are asked, do you have sandy hook text messages on your phone? you said no. correct? you said that under oath. >> i was mistaken, i was mistaken, you've got those messages right there. >> you know, i want to make sure that you know it is before we go.

>> i know what perjury is, i think layman know what perjury is. just to recap that moment, for a second, we will ignore the attorney for alex jones chewing on his fingernails. the judges on the wall who were smiling. you know, for their portraits. yet, looking down on this moment. i can't help imagine was anything other than really? well, alex jones attorneys also sent all of their clients texts messages to the opposing council, by accident, it seems? they didn't claim they were somehow privileged. i'm not sure -- his own communications people who are not lawyers, of course. then the lawyer for the sandy hook parents used that information -- to catch alex jones in ally, even the mention of perry mason wasn't going to get you scored and points. i think we call that all receipts. that is the legal term for what we have now. his attempt to spin it like he wanted them to see those all along. it's pitiful.

cruel. or what was the question he asked at the end? perjury. right? we will see what comes of that. after all, they asked him if he knew what it meant. even offered the chance to no his fifth amendment rights. but you want to know what you can buy these days, a day late, $1 short? a pretend epiphany. because jones now says that he is a believer that the 2012 shooting happened. >> it's 100 percent real, as i said yesterday. as i sit here today, it's 100 percent real. the media still ran with lies that i was saying that it wasn't real. it's incredible. they won't let me take it back. they just want to keep me in the position of being the sandy hook man. >> wait, we won't let you take it back? the media? really? i guess i am trying to ask, how

exactly do you take back years of reporting, the spreading of outrageous lies like the ones you told? >> my gosh, it just pretty much didn't happen. the whole thing was fake. the whole thing is a giant hoax. and the problem is, how do you deal with a total hoax? >> you know, you talk it all off, just before the jury began deliberating today, this clip from jones's infowars show was played in court of him actually mocking those jurors. >> extremely blue-collar folks. i mean, have that jury panel does not know who i am. they said that. when they were asked, the jury, the panel yesterday. do you believe the media has ever gotten anything wrong about alex jones? they all unanimously said no.

so, people do live in all these different bubbles. there are bubbles that are awake, they bubbles that are questioning. then there are the lou city bubbles. where people do not know what planet they are on. >> who doesn't know which planet we are on? i'm gonna leave alone the fact that he is talking about a pejorative way, those blue collar, the man is an electric blue shirt, technically a blue collar, tested jury, one appearance. a leave that out for a second. i wonder if that would stick with those jurors? because liberation's are now underway, deliberations. they say the truth shall set you free. well, the funny thing, purdue has a way of locking you up. the families, i think we all agree, still deserve a lot more. let's take this around the table with my guest, elliott williams, served as deputy assistant journey general at the doj. david tory look is a senior staff editor at the north times.

and scott jennings service special assistant to president george w. bush. gentlemen, i am not even going to ask the question, whether any of you agree with what alex jones is saying, i am just going to take it for granted that we all agree that this happened, sandy hook occurred, the tragedy is deplorable. especially on the backdrop of taking about uvalde, parkland, so many other school shootings. but i wonder, for the more broader context. how is it that misinformation like this could have lasted this long? and how it's not until right now that this whole account -- >> there are people in this country who appear to be desperate for an explanation for anything just to defy what's actually happened. it's being reported by the news media, they are desperately looking for something. there are absolute evil people like alex jones who are willing to come along and feed it to

them. i know a planet we are. on and i know a planet he's, on planet moran. the most evil guy in america today deserved to have the dumbest lawyers. because that is what we saw. i am glad they had his text messages and i am glad this jury is seeing what this guy is. i hope they do everything to him that they can possibly do, both on the civil side and possibly on the legal side. elliott's lawyer, but this guy deserves everything, everything that he gets out of this. i mean, these people lost their kids, they were terrorists by this guy for years. terrorized by the sky for years. it is outrageous! i mean, it is easy to think that society is falling apart all around us. history can strike a blow for common american decency by doing everything they can do to this guy. >> it's not just the story, another one in connecticut coming up for this. >> texas, this is texas. >> this is texas! so no matter how it ends up for him, it doesn't look like it will be pretty well, he still goes on to another defamation

suit. there has got to be a cost for defaming and hurting innocent people. this wasn't political speech. and a lot of what his attorneys are talking about, opposing the first amendment, he had the right to engage, but it's not. you know, you are targeting innocent individuals, and you are not speaking out on a broader political point. it is terrible. and it is perjury, based on what we saw there. i mean, he has lied under oath with an intent to deceive. oath within a tenth to see if. that's the purge rely on the state of texas. it's very straightforward. it's usually not as easy as just pulling the mail up. >> i, mean the judge admonished him a couple times with the idea, especially at one point he really criticize her, infowars as well. i mean, if you could have had like a screenshot of a person who goes oh expletive here. that was what you saw just now. i mean, i am nosy, so i wanted to be fly on the wall that saw that conversation between the attorneys for audience after that went, what do we mean we handed over everything.

yeah, that is the duty of an attorney during discovery. >> really put some mustard on it when he laid into alex jones on the stand there. that clip you played, laura. i agree with scott. people believe what they want to believe. this is a situation where there was a market for a conspiracy theory. alex jones, according to the judgments that he has already lost, said that market indeed. this jury has to decide how much he is worth. i would just add that in the bigger context, like we were talking about, whether it is birtherism, whether it is something that we saw on january 6th. we have a market now. people are of free speech to be a right-wing talk show host. people have a right to go to court and say what you said defame to me. i think that is where the >> i think many people don't understand the difference between your conspiracy theory on facebook, and people who are

actually presenting news information. >> not your personal uncle, he pointed at me when he said that, he didn't mean your personal uncle, i want to make sure -- >> i don't have one, we all have one. >> i don't know what goes on in your family thanksgiving. however, were you to have announced full, a conspiracy theorist, most people don't know the difference between the things and lies that he is pushing and what is actual fact and real news all storms got into that. >> that's the problem, i mean we are talking about more broadly, step back away from the tragedy of sandy hook. i can't even think about conspiracy theory and sandy hook in the same breath. but there is a market, and there is an appetite for misinformation, as long as it creates a self fulfilling prophecy, and feeds what you want to be true. i mean, that is what people are saying about january 6th, election related lies, and beyond. >> remember, when someone is feeding you something that feeds into your belief or hope that what you are being fed by the institutions is totally a

lie, they are not doing it to help you, they are doing it to help themselves. i mean, we have learned in this case, he was making 800 grand a day at one point selling merchandise while peddling this garbage and hurting these innocent people? i mean, i have got to say, those parents that testified had a six-year-old kid, i've got a six-year-old kid backstage right now. i can't imagine what would happen to me if something happened to him. i certainly can't imagine if someone came along behind that and terrorized a family like he did. so, remember, he is not doing it, anyone feeding you this kind of conspiracy garbage, he's not doing it to help you. they are doing it to help themselves. on your back! how does that make you feel? >> imagine a mother having to say on the stand, that their child existed? i mean, we talked about the controversy, whether lives matter. imagine having to say that your child existed because somebody wants to make money off of lies that they did not? more on this in a moment, everyone, elliott williams,

thank you david, scott, stay with us as well. look, barely after a month, barely a month after the supreme court overturned roe v. wade and the dobbs decision, a red state, kansas, sends an unexpected message. what do republicans do now after kansas voters shut down a bid to end abortion rights? i'm gonna ask a former u.s. attorney from kansas, appointed by then president trump. you know it, his personal views might just surprise you, that is next. oose safelite. we can come to you and replace your windshield. >> grandkid: here you go! >> tech: wow, thank you! >> customer and grandkids: bye! >> tech: bye! don't wait, schedule now. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

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back. >> i wonder if he will be right? after all, you have to consider, this will take place in the state that hasn't voted for a democratic presidential candidate and more than a half century. since the texans, lbj, voted for donald trump, as you know, by a margin of nearly 15 points back in 2020. the same president that gave the high court the majority that then overturned roe v. wade, the dobbs decision. yeah, having said all that, the outcome far exceeded expectations. thanks to a very high turnout, more than 900,000 voters showed up. that counts for nearly half, nearly half of the states registered voters. a level you would usually see in places like the general election. the fight, however, it's not over. i want to bring in steven mcallister, a university of kansas law professor. and a former professor general of the state of kansas, stephen, i am glad you're here. because, you know, you actually

argued, as a general -- in the case that the supreme court in kansas ultimately said, hey, there is a recognized right to abortion kansas. that was what started this now ballot initiative. what is your reaction that this was not passed? >> i am actually overjoyed. i am very pleased that the amendment was rejected. when i argue the case, it was federal law in place that protected a woman's right to an abortion. kansas supreme court had never decided that there was such a right under the kansas constitution. my job at the time was to argue the position of the attorney general, to argue that there was no such right under the kansas constitution, so that was the position that we argued. but i also assumed as a personal matter, there would always be a federal level of protection. i never anticipated that this court would overrule row like it did this year. >> so many people had that same

philosophy, but there was always gonna be that backdrop of a 50-year precedent of roe v. wade. of course, that did not happen. it was overturned, as you know. but the fact that you are overjoyed? geo data that many people are, by the way. but there was a huge margin. for many, that is pretty stunning. i mean, it seems that there is a disconnect, as was always thought, between what justice alito wrote about the idea of returning to the states. and the notion that people were not overwhelmingly against abortion access. kansas to prove that, yeah? >> kansas did sort of prove that. i think what dobbs did, is energize the people in kansas, they gratuitously had this on the ballot. it was actually set up for this ballot back in january of 2021. so it had been planned way in advance of jobs. when the legislator put this up for a vote, they did not know that dobbs was going to happen. so this is kind of fortuitous.

but once the dogs happened it really energized a lot of people in kansas. i think what we saw, was at least these three groups of young voters, democrats, and independents who flocked to the primary polls. those three groups generally don't. because the only contested primaries in kansas, typically, are republican primaries. >> great, you don't think, though, although this was not, you know, the catalyst was not dobbs. obscene really think that it was a genuine effort by republicans and chance to try to get this in men went? you think there was something more to it? >> well, they wanted this amendment because they wanted to overturn the kansas supreme court decision. but i think when they started that process they didn't realize that if they could do that they could actually ban abortion. because they assumed the federal level protection could still be there. they were probably delighted when they saw that dobbs overruled roe. because now the real and goal was actually achieving their -- what they did was engaging and campaign, in which they kept saying that all of this will do is allow us to have our current

laws be enforceable, it would not say that we are going to ban abortion at the next letter solution. although it is clear that that was the goal. >> well, on that notion, i mean, you are a clerk for justice clarence thomas. i wonder, your perspective, given his opinion where he spoke about going even further than alito. the idea of, or, a leader tried to say, look, i was talking about abortion here. i don't know how you are gonna carve it out of reality. he wanted to go further. same sex marriage, possibly birth control, compulsions. what do you make of that decision? that statement to go even further than the majority? >> well i think justice thomas has always got a different view of where these rights come from. so if i put on my constitutional law professor hat, the majority is talking about something else. especially due process. he is looking into privileges or immunities clause, the 14th amendment. which of course got away from way back in the 1870s.

so he is willing to revisit everything, going all the way back. nobody else seems inclined to join him in that enterprise. so i am hoping they stick to that view, that he is the only one that is interested in revisiting that territory. so i may have a little more confidence than some, that he is alone, that potential endeavor, that the rest of them have no desire to revisit those other presidents. >> i mean, i hope we are banking on more than fingers and toes crossed though on something like that? it is personal to you as well? i mean i know in the past you have had -- been demonstrative of your principles when you don't think it should go on that. >> right, and i have, so, i mean, this mattered a lot to me. the one time when i was working for the attorney generals office that i refused to participate in a case was when we were defending the ban on same sex marriage. i offered to resign if i was asked to defend that ban. because i said i could not do

that, because i had family members and friends, i would not defend that. he said, you don't have to resign, i have plenty of lawyers. but i would have resigned. >> wow. >> it was this one, you know, having five daughters. now with the protections and row casey go on. for the last three weeks, i have been pretty much nonstop in interviews and things, basically trying to say that the proponents are misleading people. it started with the name of the amendment, the wording of the amendment. all of the campaign literature, the money that has been spent, it's an effort to fool the people of kansas. but obviously, yesterday, they were not fooled. >> they were not fooled! dorothy gayle, woke up in kansas, she recognized everyone in the room for what they were. thank you steven mcalister, i appreciate you so much. >> my pleasure. >> let's take what we just heard, consider the fallout with tonight's political experts. do reproductive rights become, excuse me, even more of a deciding factor in the midterms?

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>> i think voters, from november, will be very focused on the constant gasoline, groceries and rent. >> it's not gonna make a difference. i don't think it'll be bigger than inflation. >> i wonder who's right. let me ask my guests. first, i want to get your reactions. it's a pretty big deal that this did not pass. you're smiling, you're like, yes, that's right! >> i mean, dare i say, i had some hope last night. i think that's one of, not just women and their health care and abortion rights being protected as a win, but also just hope that is given to democrats across the country. that we can get these winds, and we need them. i think the other big thing to, when you look at this, as we've got to be looking at it also

about how they talked about it in kansas. there's a lot of lessons to be learned. it's talking about government dates, it's talking about extremism, it's talking about keeping women safe, that's something i think is important for democrats across the country to pay attention to and how we move forward here and get some very big wins. >> how do you message it differently on the republican side? >> couple things stood out to me. the turnout was large. it's a lot of votes in this election, and it was a big price tag. both sides spent a lot of money. i drove up the boat totals. i did beat the ballot initiative today several times in preparation for our discussion. i still don't understand it. it was extraordinarily confusing -- >> voters weren't confused though. >> how do you know? i'll be honest with you. i think most people in constitutional amendments start off and now, and if they don't understand what's on the paper, they'll stay there -- >> is that where they give you

a sample ballot, for people who are walking in, i know we're all educated voters we have the moment go, sample ballot please? this is the answer? great. that happens. it's not gonna happen here, you're saying. >> i do think there are reasons that went down. i think people who are pro-life walked into that thing yesterday, some of them had to have voted against it. there are people who describe themselves as being pro-life, but don't necessarily want to take part in a bell initiative. that they think wouldn't allow for reasonable exceptions. and i think that's where the political reality of the pro-life movement is gonna run into -- the political reality of america, that's where the equilibrium is gonna be, someday in the future. >> those exceptions are the thing. i think both those members of congress that you play the clip for were both right. this is both not the most important issue, the abortion issue ranked fourth in the latest polling behind the

economy and overall government leadership and inflation. on the other hand, i think republicans here lost the slippery slope advantage they had before the dobbs decision. before the supreme court got rid of row, republicans have the slippery slope. it's gonna be 20 weeks it's ellen? 22? late term? now, democrats have the slippery slope argument where their photos, and some swing voters, are saying, look. what's gonna happen next? are we gonna have travel bans? is there gonna be no exceptions for rape and incest? is the court going to do away with people -- the obergefell decision? where does it end? >> remember, i mean, kansas is overwhelmingly red is obviously it's not democratic voters alone who are voting in this way. you may think that it is. but you think about that reasonableness or the bipartisan endeavors, this

congressman kinzinger had to say about the idea -- the future of finding we are all republican so to speak. here's what he had to say. >> here's the thing. don't keep coming to me, asking where all of the good republicans that defend democracy and then take your donors money and then spend half 1 million dollars promoting one of the worst election deniers out there. i mean, the dccc needs to be ashamed of themselves. >> you made the point that there's a lot of money on both sides, -- issues. to this point, it's the idea -- of our democrats -- are they cutting off their nose despite their face and alienating those who might otherwise be more agreeable? >> he is speaking about these races where democrats have invested in these people that they have heretofore claim that are threats to democracy fundamentally going to destroy america as we know. but here, take on money, we

will promote you. where does this end? i will tell you where it ends. with democratic strategist deciding in 2024 that we should run against donald trump. he's the weakest republican and so let's prop him up, just like he is did in 2017 2016. -- don't prop them up. let our voters get rid of them instead of what happened like in michigan and elsewhere. >> or, hear me out, just kick them out of the party. i mean -- -- >> how do you do that. when a guy in michigan raises the or dollars, and your party shows up with hundreds of thousands of dollars. you are allowing this guy into your primary. >> he's allowed to run! he's associating himself with the gop and your party is allowing him to be a republican and he is not attached with reality. that is the problem. you are going to continue to face. because these election deniers have become so mainstream in this republican party -- >> and how do you get rid of them? eating them. you beat them, you beat them. >> i wish there were more liz

cheney's but there is not. >> let me see if i can split the difference between congresswoman and scott here. if this backfires on democrats and they don't win some of these races where they have funded the trump your candidate, then come november, they will look bad. okay? on the other hand, democrats right, now i think this is partly to the congresswoman's point about the progressive and the moderate party. and the republican party is mostly captured by trumpism, except for a few republicans on the edge. >> [inaudible] >> wait a -- second >> i've gotta go! i've gotta go. i left a cliff-hanger there. you want to watch the next day, don't? you >> stick around. abby, david, it's got thank you. next questions, former trump lawyer passable only offered more insight into what he told the january 6th committee. welcome to the doj's new -- criminal probe. that's next. i've always been into health, and wellness, and fitness... i tried everything with diet and exercise, and nothing worked.

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federal prosecutors are going to get to courts to get some pretty interesting testimony and evidence from big names in the trump administration. a pair of top trump white house lawyers, pat cipollone and his top deputy, patrick so ben have been subpoenaed. the doj wants them both to testify before a federal grand jury investigating what happened on january 6th. my next guest is a former federal prosecutor, now running for congress in new york,

he also served on the opposing side of pat cipollone as counsel to the democratic house in the first trump impeachment. daniel goldman, welcome to the program. how are you? >> good. thanks so much for having me. >> i'm glad you are here. i've been wanting to pick your brain about this in particular, because i know that the way people speak about pat cipollone of the day is the idea of being forthright and candid and talking about all these measures, although it took time post cassidy hutchison. but i bet you have a different recollection of his role in the idea that he's played in transparency. am i right? >> you are exactly correct. if i knew pat cipollone is no hero simply because he tries to stop president of the united states from inciting a riot on the capitol on january 6th. in fact, during the first impeachment, as you remember, cipollone was very involved in both the ukraine scheme that donald trump was executing, as

well as the cover-up, where he facilitated placing that whistleblower complaint in the super classified system so that nobody would be able to see it, and then he was involved in creating and drafting the memo to cover up and prevent the intelligence community's inspector general from turning over the whistleblower complaint. so he both had a factual knowledge of donald trump's abuse of power, and he also was integrally involved in covering it up during that first. >> interestingly enough, many of the players you are talking about now, agencies, inspector general, secret service, communications, all these things have somehow found their way back into the discussion of today. and i do wonder, on those issues of privilege or confidentiality, what does it say to you that there seems to be this ramping up, of sorts, to prepare for and anticipate

somebody asserting a privilege of some kind? i know he had the testimony for the january six committee, but is there some validity to the proposition that they actually might be able to assert a privilege? >> i don't think that ultimately the privilege would bear out if this were to go to court. the department of justice is much better situated to litigate the privileges that cipollone seemed to claim during his deposition before the january six committee. you do not have attorney client privilege or executive privilege if you are having conversations related to misconduct or crime or fraud. there is a good argument to be had that many of cipollone's relevant conversations with donald trump about his efforts to overturn the election were not kosher, so to speak.

and so the department of justice could press cipollone to give more information than give more information then with the january six committee did, and if they refuses, they can go to court and they can litigate this where cipollone would have to tell the court what -- he was using and wet documents. the court would decide whether or not there would -- be to those privileges. remember, executive privilege must be claimed and asserted by the president, not by the person who was the president spoke to. so we are going to have to have a formal assertion of executive privilege by donald trump, which then biden will rule on before ultimately the department of justice presses cipollone further. >> as they say, it is good to be the king and the person who has that role of the president

's president joe biden. i am curious to see how this is going to go, going forward. dana goldman, glad to talk to you. i had a feeling you had a different viewpoint about how this might go. thank you for being part of the program. >> thank you so much for having me. >> trump and his inner circle called the investigations january 6th. remember this? >> a witch hunt. >> a partisan political witch hunt. >> it's absolutely a witch hunt. >> this is witch hunt three point oh. >> nothing but a political witch hunt. >> let me remind you what a real witch hunt once looked like. can we go back to 1693 for a second? the salem witch trials? 19 people hanged for stating the obvious. they weren't witches. 55 others confessed, obviously, under extreme pressure, that they were convicted but spared. one of them was johnson jr.,

the only woman who had not been cleared. why am i talking about? it because now her name has been cleared. it took an eighth grade civics teacher and her students to convince state lawmakers to finally clear johnson. so as much as trump and his allies do like to use the term, and perhaps others more colloquially, the term witch hunt, the only part of january 6th that resembled what happens, say, in salem, was this shot of a gallows erected for mike pence. coming up, a much different legal battle. the nfl is now appealing the suspension of cleveland browns quarterback to shaun watson. is his punishment for alleged sexual misconduct too light? bob costas joins me next.

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you know where to go. >> the nfl tonight is appealing the six game suspension handed down to cleveland browns quarterback deshaun watson. the decision comes after a former judge found that he violated the league's personal conduct policy and various private meetings with massage therapists.

those meetings led dozens of women to file sexual harassment and assault lawsuits against him. originally, the league pushed for a full season suspension, what will commissioner roger could also decide now? let's talk with bob costas. bob, nice to see. first of all, we learned about an appeal. who are they appealing to? it's back to another sort of arbitration or a retired judge? what's the deal? >> no. under the terms of the new collective bargaining agreement, or at least a portion of the agreement that concerns cases like this, if there is an appeal, it goes either to commissioner roger goodall, or his designee. whatever either goodell or the designee decides is supposed to be binding on both sides. in theory, if the nfl players association don't like the outcome of the appeal, they could go to a civil court. but that would appear to be unlikely. it's either goodell or his designee who will make the decision. the league had asked for a full season suspension. actually, an indefinite

suspension, because they feel there's a possibility that additional accusers could come forward, and they might have a different view of the severity of the case. now, judge robinson, the former federal judge who decided this case, termed watson's behavior as both predatory and egregious. but she based what's seems to be a relatively light sentence on the fact that previous penalties for what she termed nonviolent sexual misconduct did not exceed six games. so she gave him the six games. the league feels that a, just as a matter of what's right, that's too light. but also, we have a public relations concern. this looks terrible for the lead, especially, not solely, but perhaps especially, among its ever growing female fan base. so they know that they have to address this issue. otherwise, they have a public relations problem. >> i haven't heard robert kraft make the comment, this was an embarrassment.

of course, we can leave aside the glass house that might be involved in that commentary about him, but the idea of it being an embarrassment to the lead, do you think they'll cave to the pressure? is it appropriate to do so? >> i think they will decide, either goodull or his designee will decide on a more severe penalty. keep a couple things in mind. first of all, for whatever it may be worth, two grand juries and texas declined to indict watson on any of these charges. he remains almost defiant, saying he never did anything wrong, he never disrespected any woman, he's innocent of these charges. meanwhile, last year, he was an effect on administrative leave while some of these things were adjudicated, and he received $10 million in pay from the houston texans. then, his team never played a single game. the way his current contract is structured, he received 45 million dollar signing bonus,

which cannot be touched during the suspension. they purposely arranged it so that his first year of the deal, anticipating suspension, he makes barely 1 million dollars. the deal itself is worth hundreds of millions of dollars, and he's pocketed 45 million upfront, and all he would be losing a six game suspension is $340,000. taking all of this together, and the pattern of behavior, and the number of accusers, the public isn't buying this as an equitable penalty. and, least i wouldn't think so. >> bob, this deal, the contract he had, it includes guaranteed money. it was signed when these allegations were in part out there. but it's not like they were blindsided by this. >> that's right. look, we know this. they can say, oh, we believe into sean as a person, and healthy as vast version of himself, but they're really looking for is the best version of deshaun watson, the football player, and let's hope he stays out of trouble and stays off the front pages of the newspapers and confines his activities to the sports pages.

that's what they're hoping for, because he's a good player when he's playing at his best. but this is something that doesn't sit well with most of the public. now what the league can do, they could say, orthodontist case, goodell or whoever he designates, could say look, will make it ten games. 12 games. and we'll add a substantial fine. and maybe the baseline for that fine is $10 million, which is the amount he collected from the houston texans last year without playing a single game. >> so then he only gets $35 million. the idea of the way the money got makes the way go around. bob, really fascinating. one of the other players saying about this? are you getting a sense of how this is impacting how other players in the league are viewing this? >> you know, it's very rare for players to speak out publicly like, hey, this is terrible, we need a harsher penalty. some may feel that way, by and large, once the guys in the locker room and he's your teammate, if he can help you win, then people are generally on board with that, and if they

have private misgivings, they generally keep it private. >> that's the way the game is played. bob costas, thank you so much. we'll be right back. >> thanks, laura. ♪ ♪ "shake your thang" by salt n pepa this is john. he never gives up—no matter what life throws his way.

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>> thanks for watching. i'll be back tomorrow night. don lemon tonight starts right now. hey, don lemon. >> we are getting close. it's hump day. we can call it hump night. we have two more days and into the weekend, which we may have to work on anyway. one never knows, do one, in this business? >> i've already talked my lipstick off. so, i'm going home. that's the end of my contract. i don't have the guaranteed millions of the nfl, but when my lipstick is done, so am i. >> there's so much talk when it comes to the nfl and music. by the way, i saw the top of