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department of justice about the january six criminal investigation. the news comes after we have learned the justice department is getting ready for court battles with trump officials who might try to keep their conversations with the former president out of reach of investigators. joining me now to discuss kim whaley she's a visiting professor at the american university and the author of the upcoming book how to think like a lawyer, as well as cnn senior political analyst ron, cnn counter terrorist analyst and former fbi senior intelligence adviser, philip mudd. good evening, kim, let's see, let's begin with you, let's start with your reaction to the new reporting? >> don, i'm not really that surprised, i think merrick garland has made clear in speeches that he will follow the facts and the law as far as they take them, regardless of who is involved and he nodded potentially to donald trump, and the january six committee hearings in a very small segment of the evidence have knocked it out of the park in

terms of donald trump's involvement and what is already been alleged as, and people think convicted for serious federal crimes. the fact that his lawyers are talking to the doj's not a big surprise. i'm expecting indictments, frankly. the idea that this is about executive privileges is [inaudible] because that is controlled by joe biden and not donald trump. donald trump lost, and even with the conservative supreme in trying to push executive privilege claims and in the nixon case the court held unanimously that when it comes to grand jury investigations, executive privilege has to fall in favor of getting to the truth. >> ron, pat cipollone and his deputy put both subpoenaed this week, is this about keeping the innermost circle from divulging details, what kind of things could they tell? >> well, we have an idea from the january 6th testimony and

even the statements that we saw, even with the limits that pat cipollone put on, clearly he is in the middle of a very relevant and potentially damaging conversations for the former president. don, just take it slightly broader, i'm really struck that we are getting this information right as the confirmation is coming that carrie lake won the nomination for the arizona governorship. that means that republicans in arizona all four of their top choices, governor, attorney general secretary of state, are all election deniers. michigan all of their top nominees governor secretary state attorney general election deniers, pennsylvania, the governor, nevada, it's all important would happens to trump but it is also very significant that this has moved way beyond trump and has metastasized in the party to it becoming a much broader and ongoing threat to democracy, whatever the justice department does with it. >> why are you shaking your

head, phil? >> i'm agreeing with ron, i would never disagree with him, but i think that the focus here is on the tactical issue of whether the former president and his advisers are indicted. i think the broader issue which is being lost because it is complicated to follow is whether we end up in an election cycle where various people in critical states, it's not just some states, get swing states, start to say we don't accept the results and therefore this election is invalid. i think the trump issue is one story, i don't think -- i think the story has been overplayed so far, to be blunt, i think the bigger story is what is happening with election deniers and in critical places, swing states, don. >> what do you mean it's been overplayed, explain that to me? >> let me give you one or two -- for example whether the president gets indicted, the former president trump, the question is not whether he did something wrong, let me give

you one angle, if you want to say that the former president interferes with the senate as they decided what to do with the election, you can say that his actions were inappropriate, give me a fact, don, did he tell people to go to the capitol and commit an act of violence. that is what the department of justice has to deal with, not with the media and the popular perception that the former president did something wrong. he did. that is not the legal question, don. >> okay. i just wanted you to explain that. let me ask you this because you mentioned the presidents adviser, i had them earlier, and she is part of the team that has this exclusive reporting, they are telling us that trump is asking his closest advisers about whether he will be indicted, does it seems like he is worried though, phil? >> absolutely. i would be worried if i was him, but there is a difference between being worried and being indicted. when i looked at the information over the past 24 hours, one of the questions, in the minds of people, is does

this indicate that the president will be indicted, that was not the question i had, the question i would have is for example, if the president had a conversation with rudy giuliani about the election, rudy giuliani is already in a lot of legal trouble, is that conversation with rudy giuliani covered? is our conversation privilege? that doesn't necessarily say yet, because i'm cautious on this, john, that doesn't say yet that president trump is going to be indicted. two very different questions. >> listen, kim, the former attorney general eric holder is saying the opposite of what phyllis-ing. >> yes, i have a slightly different point of view in that i think that actually, and i've written about this for political having studied it from a constitutional standpoint, i do think indicting donald trump is critical to preservation of democracy, because of the other guardrails to ensure that future presidents don't huge the massive power of their office to willy-nilly commit

crimes and install themselves as dictators have fallen. that is important. but i completely agree and i have written about this as well, a book about voting, the cancer has spread throughout in the bowels of the electoral system and, particularly given the supreme court and how it has granted saoirse worry and a case that could hand future elections to gerrymandered, republican legislatures, cutting everyone out including state constitutions out of the process, this is much more serious than it was even on january six. both of these issues are a very serious, i don't think one will address the other, but i do believe that an indictment of donald trump is critical to protection of democracy and i think educating the public to the possibility of that is important for the justice department to be able to execute that, because it is unthinkable to do that up until what happened on january six. >> go ahead, ron, i know you want to. >> one way to think about it would be that in terms of

protecting democracy, indicting trump should they find the evidence is necessary but not sufficient, obviously it is critical to show that there are consequences for the kind of broad reaching scheme that the january six committee has done an incredible job of laying out, it goes far beyond the issue of whether or not he incited violence on that day, but weather not the multi-long effort to subvert the election results, but the challenge goes way beyond that. i thought liz cheney in the interview that you played in the last hour really laid this out in a way that almost, i think literally know of the republican has done, when she said explicitly voters, including republican voters should not vote for election deniers, should not vote for people, that -- i have not heard anyone say that inside the republican coalition as explicitly as she did. this is going to be on the ballot, and a lot of places as we said arizona, michigan,

pennsylvania, nevada, it's not trivial. there are a number of states where republicans have nominated candidates who have not only looking back and said joe biden didn't win, but who are proposing policies that will tilt the playing field in the playing field to make it less likely that democrats could win in their states. this is a ongoing challenge, and while it may be necessary as i said to set a clear example of consequences with donald trump, no one should have any allusion that that is the end of the challenge that we face in terms of safeguarding the democracy that we have known throughout our history. >> you mentioned liz cheney, i want to play more, this is casey hunts interview with liz cheney, more when she's talking about the decision the doj is facing. listen. >> it's a question for us is are we a nation of laws? are we a country where no one

is above the law? what do the facts in the evidence show? certainly, i've been very clear, i think he is guilty of the most serious dereliction of duty of any president of our history, you had a federal judge in california say that it is more likely than not that he and johnny eastman created two crimes. i think we're gonna continue to follow the facts, i think the department of justice will do that, but they have to make decisions about prosecution understanding what it means if the facts and the evidence are there, and they decide not to prosecute. how do we then call ourselves a nation of laws. i think that is a very serious balancing. >> kim, she is being really, really clear and i think the rest of the january six committees on the same page. there has been a lot of back and forth about what they expect from the doj. >> yes, i agree completely with

what liz cheney said and i agree that people have to go to the ballot box in november to vote with people with integrity, and that happens to be primarily democrats with a few old-school republicans that still care about the constitution and the rule of law. merrick garland has so much on his shoulders, tremendous pressure from both sides, the left is pushing him for a long time for not doing anything, the right is attacking even the idea of indicting of former president. but i do think that he will take it as far as it needs to go, and then the question will be how will the american public respond to it, i've been watching history channel about abraham lincoln, we have seen this moment in the past, in a different fashion, but this really is a moment in american history where democracy itself, our way of life, our liberties, freedoms, our abilities to choose our own government, to not have bullies that are there through strong-arm tactics decide to freedoms for ourselves and our children.

that is this moment, and i just hope, and i agree with liz cheney, i hope we all can rise to the occasion and save it for our future. >> phil, i want to play this for you and i will get you to respond to all of it, i know you want to jump in here, i was looking at this trying to find the information, i want to play with eric holder said, and continue our discussion, here it is. >> my guess is by the end of this process, you're going to see indictments involving high-level people in the white house, you're gonna see indictments against people outside the white house who were advising them with regard to the attempt to steal the election. and i think ultimately you will see the former president of the united states indicted as well. >> that is an interview with joe madison who is a frequent guest on the show, but go on, phil. >> boy, this makes me extremely uncomfortable. i could not disagree with a list cheney more, i'm not saying whether she is right or wrong about the former president, but i do not like

democrats or republicans telling judges and the department of justice whom they should prosecute. president trump and his advisers including michael flynn said lock her up, should the department of justice pursue that? i'm not saying the cases are equivalent, i'm saying i do not like the blind justice being altered by a political leader. let me tell you one final tactical view on this, don, and that is that if the department of justice, merrick garland, the attorney general pursues this now, what's donald trump going to say? this is a political game pursued by opponents in deep states, including kinzinger and liz cheney to go after me -- >> he's gonna say that regardless? he's gonna say that regardless though, phil. >> yes, but don't give him ammo. don't give him ammo. it makes it look like politics -- >> if you don't indict him that is and moves well. if you don't indict him -- i'm not saying you should or shouldn't, when i'm saying is that donald trump will take whatever happens, and people

twisted in his favor. am i wrong with that? >> don't give him ammo. >> ron, i will give you the final word. >> real quick, if we're really talking about a two front struggle to preserve american democracy, one in the legal arena and these decisions that the justice department face the other in the political arena, as you have all these candidates trying to tilt the playing field and advanced trump's misdirection and lies about 2020. one person on the spot, doug doocy the governor of arizona who has defended and asserted the election, khazan entire slate of republicans who say that he is wrong or either wrong or is lying, and is he going to go out and basically say let's give them the power to control the next election? i think the standard that liz cheney has set really puts a spotlight on what doug doocy does in the next few days and weeks. >> thank you all, i appreciated, phil do you want to say something, really quick. >> i'm done, don.

thank you. [laughs] >> you're not old enough for this. >> i'm waiting for the twitter trolls to come after me, bring it on, let's go! >> don't even waste your time on that. bye. >> by, don. >> thank you guys, i appreciate it. britney griner's nightmare just got even worse now, the nba star sentenced today to nine years in a russian penal colony, can the u.s. don't make a deal to get her out? >> i want to say again that i had no intent on breaking any russian laws, i had no intent, i did not conspire or plan to commit this crime. [soft cymbal crashsh]

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tonight, 42 seconds of silence

for britney griner at the phoenix mercury game. the wnba stars who wears number 42, was found guilty today of drug smuggling with criminal intent by a russian court. her legal team says they will appeal the sentence. president biden is calling the ruling, unacceptable, but it is unclear if it will reignite prisoner swap tots. cnn has the latest. >> britney griner's legal team says she was extremely shaken after a russian court sentenced hard nine years and jail on drug charges. saying this to our camera as she was let out of the courtroom. >> britney how do you feel? >> this after griner had made an emotional appeal to the court, holding up a photo of the team that she pays for in russia. and at times breaking out in

tears. >> i want to apologize to my teammates. my club, the fans, and the city of [inaudible] , for the mistake that i made in the embarrassment that i brought. >> the wnba star and two-time olympic gold medalist had pleaded guilty to the charges, that said that she did not intend to bring vaping cartridges containing cannabis oil to russia, where she was detained at a moscow and part in february. >> i meant to never hurt anybody. i never meant to put in jeopardy. when i made an honest mistake. and i hope that, in your ruling, it doesn't end my life here. >> but that did not move the judge that moves that she acted with criminal intent. and nine year sentence to be served in a penal colony. tough labor facilities away from the russian capital. her lawyer, pretty angry and

disappointed, and vowing to fight on. >> [interpreter] we think the verdict was totally out of order. it does not correspondent to what's happening, and what's happened. and it is totally going against what happened and going against the russian penal code. >> both the white house and the state department condemned the verdict. and the long jail sentence. the u.s. less brittney griner as being wrongfully detained, and says that it's part of substantial offer on the table to bring both britney griner, and former marine, paul, who is currently serving a 16-year-old sentence home. the u.s. embassy was inside the courtroom near moscow, and said the united states was continue to fight for britney griner. >> national security team, and they entire american government remain committed to bringing miss griner home safely to her friends, families, and loved ones.

>> we spoke to the lawyers after the verdict came down, and they certainly were disappointed. they say they believe that none of the points that they had made were really taken into consideration by the court at all. now they have ten days to file an appeal against this verdict. and they say that is exactly what they are going to do. at the same time, of course, one of the things that they have always said is that they said that they believe that the verdict needed to be in place for a prisoner swap to happen. and they say, they hope that that can happen very soon. >> my pleasure, thank you very much. we are bringing in now jonathan franks, he was a consultant on the case of trevor reed. who was released from russia in a prisoner swap earlier this year. also michael white, and a mere, from iran i should say. i appreciate you joining us. wow, nine years in a penal colony. the attorney said the average time in jail for this type of crime is five years.

but you expected her to get those nine. years you did, did you? >> good evening, and thanks for having me back don. yeah, i actually got to listen to the proceeding because it was livestream and and it was on my phone. i understand why her attorneys believe that their arguments were taken into account. they made some great arguments about the legality of the search. and also in mitigation. because this is the cannabis a quid lint of cigarettes. and they've made her out to be pablo escobar. it's not fair to her, the way that they paraded her is vague just outrageous. >> she is gonna serve out her sentence at the penal colony. what would she face? what's it gonna be like? >> depends on where she is taken. and whether she's taken anywhere at all. you never know what they are going to do. they seem to make it up as they

go along. i think, certainly, the pinot currently conditions will be harsher than they are in pre-detention. >> the u.s. is currently trying to negotiate this prisoner swap with russia, right? the deal on the table is to give russia convicted arms dealer, for her and another american being held, paul whelan,. do you think this is still on the table right now? >> absolutely. getting victor back is been a natasha null priority for russia since 2015. from officials over here. who went visiting, and laughed, and remarks that perhaps he would be one they traded for an american prisoner. so they put a lot of time and effort into getting the move back. and i'm not convinced that they don't want him. and i've a feeling that they are going to come around. >> are you concerned at all,

jonathan, that russia is using griner as a political pawn considering the current war with ukraine? >> yeah. i am. and i think part of it is that they are looking for leverage in these prisoner trade negotiations. which were at the time of her arrest going nowhere at best. so, i've often wondered if it was to leverage that. she was clearly targeted in the airport they. know who she is. and they figured. she would help, taking her without vance the objective somehow. it's quite transparent. >> jonathan, do you have any advice? is there any advice or anything you would want to say to britney griner's family if they are listening? >> i would say to them hang on, it's gonna be okay. we can't ever tell families when it's gonna be okay. or how it's gonna be okay. but there are good odds of it being okay.

i have said in many living rooms with a lot of families. in these times of crisis and it's heartbreaking. and, you just have to sit there and try very hard not to cry with them. >> jonathan francs, thank you so much. i appreciate it. >> thanks don. >> a right-wing leader getting huge applause from the crowd cpac, in dallas. that leader? the prime minister of hungary. and what he said may shock you! next!

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["only wanna be with you" by hootie & the blowfish] discover is accepted at 99% of places in the u.s. ["only wanna be with you" by hootie & the blowfish] large out-of-state corporations have set their sights on california. they've written prop 27, to allow online sports betting. they tell us it will fund programs for the homeless. but read prop 27's fine print. 90% of profits go to out-of-state corporations,

leaving almost nothing for the homeless. no real jobs are created here. but the promise between our state and our sovereign tribes would be broken forever. these out-of-state corporations don't care about california. but we do. stand with us. hungarian prime minister,

viktor orban, delivering one of the speeches at this year's conservative political action conference at cpac, at dallas. the far-right anti immigration populist compared to trump, slamming those, he considers, quote, enemies of freedom. watch. >> progressive liberals did not want me to be here, because they know what i will tell you. i am here to tell you that we should unite our forces. we hungarians know -- because we hungarians know how to defeat the enemy of freedom on the political battlefield. >> i will discuss no cnn political commentator, charlie dent, and scott jennings. hello, scott, you are smiling. i'll find out, but let's play this. i know why you are laughing. just last month, i need to tell

you, or montero to crowd that, quote, europeans do not want to become peoples of mixed race, which prompted his own, long aide to protest calling it, quote, nazi propaganda. the question is, why is he invited to cpac? scott jennings? >> well, first of all, i am smiling because i'm happy to see you. i'm happy to see our friend charlie. thank you, and good to be with you both tonight. the the right has been infatuated with this guy for the last few years. i think, mostly, over immigration. he has a hard line immigration stance. as you know, that was a motivating policy item for donald trump when he came on the scene. it strikes me that is where the infatuation with him started. it is not unusual in this country, i will say, for political parties to become infatuated with foreign leaders. the left was infatuated with fidel castro for a few years, not that long ago. it isn't the first time it's happened. i tend to look inward for my

inspiration, and politics. i would love for cpac to have panels about inflation, and how we should be using inflation in the elections this fall. but they went down this road. largely, i think, because to them, he represent someone who did what trump did, which is take a hard line on immigration, and not let people into their country. >> charlie, i will let you respond to that, but i just want to play this because i want you to hear as much as possible. this was orban's biggest applause line of the day. watch. >> the hungarian state institutions are obliged to protect the christian country of hungary. hungary will protect the institution of marriage as the union of one man, and one woman. family ties shall be based on marriage, or the relationship between share parents, and children. to sum up, the mother is a woman, the father is a man, and

leave our kids alone. full stop. and of discussion. >> let's be honest, that rhetoric that lgbtq acceptances, somehow, a threat to children is more than just a dog whistle. >> don, it is. viktor orban is an illiberal populist. he is part of a trans national movement. you call it for the alternative for germany and germany, le pen in france, ukip in the uk, trumpism in america, the five star movement in italy. there is democratic backsliding going on in hungary. i can't understand why cpac would give a platform to a man like this. yes, he does all of the dog whistles on, immigrants on, the lgbt community, and others. so, i am astounded that cpac would have a liberal populist

speaking there. they might just want to change your name from cpac, too ill packed, because this is sick that they go down this path. as scott said, they should be talking about other issues. by the way, cpac, over the years, would have a straw poll for president. ron, or rand paul, would always win. of course, that is not reflective of the country, or the republican party, for that matter, but that is where these guys are. i think it is time that conservative leaders the turned their backs, and the platform people like this. orban is another one who also plays footsie with latimer putin. this guy is more like erdogan in turkey, that he is like any other western leader. i am hoping that the european union, at some point, sets a standard for democratic values among their members. the country is in a bad place. by the way, only on tucker carlson's show, and only on cpac is hungary a place where

they talk about hungarian exceptionalism. it's a country of 10 million people, it's homogenous, and pour. i don't know we were trying to be like them. >> scott, you want to respond? >> yes, the clip you played, i thought was interesting. just the other day, in congress, we had a vote on gay marriage, and obviously, quite a few republicans, in both house, and senate, voted for gay marriage on the floor. so what he said is not a uniform position within the republican party. during the trump years, i think, the republican party got far more liberal, if you will, on that particular question. there are people around donald trump who have expressed an openness to marriage equality. so, i thought him bringing that up, and getting the applause was interesting, if only, because i think in the last few years, republicans have moved far closer to the middle of the country on this. >> that's what i was about to ask you. why on earth would he bring it up? why would he get such an applause line? i do have to say, after overturning roe, justice clarence thomas signaled other

cases could be next, like same sex marriage. so, the question is, why is the gop considering what scott just said, charlie? why doesn't the gop seem to be harping on this? it's not going to be a winning issue. >> i think we need to get the issue that the people attending cpac are not representative of mainstream republicans in this country. it is true, it seems, more americans, myself included, certainly, except same-sex marriage, marriage equality the many republicans like scott, i mentioned, have voted to support same-sex marriage. so, cpac is often a freak show. i'll be honest with you, it is a freak show, quite often. you will have people standing up there, applauding people like viktor orban, but i don't think it is representative of a lot of people outside of that room in the republican party. >> thank you gentlemen, i appreciate it. the biden administration, declaring monkeypox a public health emergency. what that means for you, next. moving closer to the grandkids!

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the biden administration officially declaring the monkeypox outbreak a public health emergency. the first case in the u.s. was identified in mid may. since then, more than 6600 probable cases were detected across the country. let's bring in now a doctor to talk about it. doctor, great to see you.

important stuff we're talking about here. more than 6600 cases are an undercount. how bad things looking right now and how much worse could this get? >> nice to see you don. thank you for inviting me. it is certainly an undercount, because it has a very long incubation period, monkeypox. almost two weeks. so the cases that you see now are a fraction of those that are coming down the line. but that's not why it's so bad i think, don. i think if you look at the 30,000 cases that we've had in the world, they've only been, about three deaths in that group. so it's a low case fatality rate. and for some, it's very mild. but it is a cousin to smallpox. and you can't tell the difference between them. on a microscope. and many of the legions are the same. and they may have had a common ancestor. and the warning, at least for me and many of my colleagues

that work in the program. is that if you give monkeypox viruses of enough opportunities to mutate, and replicate, and change, we are worried. even though there's a small chance that that might happen. so that's one of the biggest issues. >> the smallpox vaccine, because people of a certain age got that as a kid, does that offer some protections though? >> it does, and again smallpox it offers almost lifelong protection. for monkeypox, probably about 85% protection. but we have a better vaccine than the drive backs that we originally used for smallpox. but it's very limited quantities. and it takes two doses. so one of the good things about this type of thing from president biden, is it continues to open up our national reserve. and there's one more declaration that would yet come, that would allow the fda to fast-track the treatment for monkeypox.

that is already been approved in europe, but has not been approved in the united states except for extreme circumstances. so these matter. >> well let me ask you, because this has a lot of criticism for not moving fast enough to address the crisis. the white house is pushing back saying they are trying to evolve rapidly. what do you think? is that a good excuse? >> you're asking an immunologist. for me they should've asked me when there were ten cases. >> so what should they be doing then to pick up the case? >> well. they should be making these today reparations. they should be opening up the vaccine. and fast-tracking the treatment. and they should begin to embark on the same methods that we used in smallpox. which is called ring vaccination, surveillance, and containment. find every case. find the context. vaccinate them. make it available, easily, for people to get vaccinated. and i think we have to get a

way to get it for only one dose. because people just don't come back for the second dose. >> let me ask you this, president biden had a rebound covid diagnosis. he tested positive again after taking paxlovid for the first time. and he continues to test positive. can you explain to us why? and let me just say this. most of the people that i know in my personal life who had paxlovid, had a rebound. >> i'm in your life and i? so did i! >> you got rebound covid from taking paxlovid? >> i did. i had to take, it's not really a rebound. and we'll get into more than just semantics. i believe that the paxlovid jose, which was a treatment over five days, was probably adequate against the very variant that they tested against. which was the delta variant. it's simply not relevant and

many peoples cases with ba.5. it's just not. it can evade both the treatment, and prior infection. so i'm hoping that as part of this renewed interest in all of the things epidemiological we will see a trial and maybe it's a ten-day course that is better but we will see. >> all right. doctor larry brialliant, thank you so much. i appreciate. it >> thank you so. much >> will be right back! he planning effect. this is how it feels to have a dededicated fidelity advisr looking at your full financial picture. this is what it's like to have a comprehensive wealth plan with tax-smart investing strategies designed to help you keep more of what you earn. and set aside more for things like healthcare, or whatever comes down the road. this is "the planning effect" from fidelity.

one and 44 american children, believed to be on the autism spectrum. studies have shown, black and brown children, on average, diagnosed later than white children, and are less likely to access critical assistance,

do, in part, two racial bias, and critical stigma. cnn hero, working to change that. debris vines, struggling to get support, and resources, when her son, jason, was diagnosed with autism. now, the nonprofit provides families in underserved areas, outside of chicago, with the support, services, and community education that they need to thrive says. says >> you play it, one through three, like that. >> being a parent with a child with autism through the 80s, and 90s, was troubling. the support groups i found, i was the only black william. color barrier, income barrier, equity barrier, period. it was all types of barriers. everything that we provide is a blueprint for what i was missing, as a parent. we have a support group to help their kids go to their classes. we are a family. i am adequate about educating humility, because people are afraid of what they don't understand.

we want to make sure that first responders are trained and how to deal with our children. >> how long has your mom been doing this stuff? >> because he smiling, and makes it a little easier, but what if you do to someone who stop smiling? they're running around? they're fighting themselves? advocacy is a gift, i'm good at it, and it makes me feel so good. >> a hero to see deborah's full story, and find out more about her work, including, how she is educating the police in her area. go to cnn heroes.com. thank you for watching everyone, our coverage continues. cnn heroes, brought to you by subaru. love is what makes subaru, subaru. working to undo the impact a crash cahave on your life. which has led the forester to r

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good thursday evening to you. four point $1 million and counting, that is how much the lies and conspiracy theories spread by alex jones about the mass shooting at sandy hook elementary school. you will remember, it killed 20 children and six adults, will not cost him. a number that may grow. i am jim sciutto, internet for anderson. the texas jury has awarded damages was far less than what families had requested, however there's the question of punitive damages, plus the infowars host faces two more trials involving families of those killed and sandy hook. today, and attorney for the parents in the texas case told cnn that they are, quote, thrilled by the jury's decision. remember, jones is the man who claimed repeatedly, including directly to the parents murdered at sandy hook