tv Don Lemon Tonight CNN August 5, 2022 12:00am-1:01am PDT
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cnn exclusive reporting tonight. the trump legal team, engaging in direct communication with the department of justice about the january 6th criminal investigation. the news comes after we learn the justice department is getting ready for a court battle, which officials might try to keep the conversations with the former president out of reach of investigators. join me now with kim whaley, a
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visiting professor of law at american university, and the author of the upcoming book "how to think like a lawyer," as well as cnn's senior political and terrorism analyst, philip mudd. good evening, one and all. thanks so much. kim, let's begin with you. okay. let's start with your reaction to this new report, first of all. >> don, i'm not really that surprised. i think mayor garland has made clear, in speeches, that he's going to follow the backs of the law, as far as they take them, regardless of who is involved. and he is sort of nodded, potentially, to donald trump, and the january 6th committee hearings in a very small segment of the evidence to knock it out of the park, in terms of donald trump's involvement in what has already been elected as -- and people think -- convicted for serious federal crimes. so, the fact that his lawyers are talking to doj is not a big surprise. i'm expecting indictments, frankly, and the idea that this is about executive privileges,
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particularly persuaders from joe biden, not donald trump. donald trump lost again, even with the conservative supreme court in trying to push executive privilege claims, and in the nixon case, the court held unanimously, that when it comes to grand jury investigations, executive privilege has to fall in favor of getting to the truth. >> ron, patrick filmon, subpoenaed this week. is this all about keeping the inner -most circles from diverging details? what kind of things could they tell? >> we got an idea from the january 6th testimony. even what we saw, and the limits that pallone put on, clearly, he is in the middle of very relevant and potentially very difficult showing for the former president.
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i am worried we're not getting this information right as it is coming for the winners of the arizona governorship that means republicans in arizona, all four of their top choices, governor, attorney general, secretary of state, u.s. senator, michigan now, all of the top nominees, governor, secretary of state, election deniers, pennsylvania, the governor, nevada, it's very important what happens to trump, but it is also very significant that this has moved way beyond trump and metastasized in the party to it become a much broader and ongoing threat to democracy, whatever the justice department does. >> why are you shaking your head, phil? >> i'm agreeing with ron. i would never disagree with him, but i think the focus here is on the tactical issue of whether the former president and his advisers are indicted.i think the broader issue, which is being lost because it's sort of complicated to follow, is whether we end up in an
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election cycle with various people in critical states. it's not just some states. swing states start to say, we don't accept the results, and therefore, this election is invalid. i think the trump issue is one story. i don't -- i think the story has been overplayed so far, to be blunt but i think the bigger story is what's happening with the election deniers in critical places in swing states, don. >> what do you mean? explain that to me. what part? >> well, for example, whether the president gets indicted, the former president trump, the question is not whether he did something wrong. when we give you one angle. if you want to say, the former president interfered with the senate, as they decided what to do with the election, you can say, his actions were inappropriate. give me a fact, don. did he tell people to go to the capitol and commit an act of violence? that's what the department of justice has to deal with, not
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what the media and the popular perception -- that the former president did something wrong. he did. that's not the legal question,.. >> okay. i wanted you to explain that. we had part of the team earlier with excessive sources, telling cnn, trump's closest advisors, now lies about whether he will be indicted. doesn't sound like he's worried, though, phil? >> absolutely. i would be worried if i were him, but there's a difference between being married and being indicted. when i look at the information over the past 24 hours, one the questions -- the question uppermost in people's minds, i think, in america, would be does this indicate that the president will be indicted? that was not the question i had. the question i would have is, for example, if the president had a conversation with rudy giuliani about the election, rudy giuliani is already, obviously, in a lot of legal trouble. is that conversation with rudy giuliani covered?
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is that conversation privileged? that doesn't necessarily say, yes, because i'm cautious on this, don. that doesn't say, yet, that president trump is going to be indicted for two very different questions >> okay, kim, did you hear the former attorney general, or colder, saying the opposite of what bill is saying? >> yeah. i have a slightly different point of view, in that, i think i have written about this for politico, having studied it from a constitutional standpoint. i do think indicting donald trump is critical to preservation of mccarty, because all the other guard rails for ensuring that future presidents don't use the massive powers of their office to willy-nilly commit crimes and install themselves as dictators, have fallen. so, that's important, but i completely agree, and i have written about this, as well, voting on this, that the cancer has spread throughout the bowels of the electoral system, and has particularly given the supreme court, and how it has rented a case that could essentially handle future
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elections to gerrymandered republican legislatures, cutting everybody else, including state constitutions, out of the process. this is much, much more serious than it was even on january 6th both of the issues are very serious and i don't think one will address the other, but i do believe that an indictment of donald trump is the call to detection of democracy, and i think educating the public to the possibility of that is important for the justice department to be able to execute that, because it's unthinkable to do that up until what happened on january 6th. >> go ahead, ron. i know you want to jump in. >> i was going to say, if we can think about it, in terms of protecting democracy, indicting trump -- should they find the evidence -- is necessary, but not sufficient. obviously, it is critical to show that there are consequences for the kind of
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broad-reaching scheme that the january 6th committee has done an incredible job of laying out. it goes far beyond the idea of whether he incited violence on that day, but the multi-pond effort to subvert the election result. but that is, you know, the challenge goes way beyond that. i thought liz cheney, in the interview played in the last hour, really laid this out in a way that almost, i think, literally, no other republican has done, which he said, especially, voters, literal republican voters, should not vote for an election -- you know, that is something, at least i, have not heard anyone say that, inside the republican coalition, as explicitly as she did. this is going to be a tough ballot in a lot of places. as we said, arizona, michigan, pennsylvania, nevada, minnesota. it's not trivial. there are a number of states where republicans have nominated candidates who are not only looking back and saying, joe biden didn't win, but are proposing policies that would tilt the playing field in the future to make it less likely that democrats could win
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in their states. and so, this is a real ongoing challenge, and while it may be necessary, as i said, to set a clear example of consequences with donald trump, nobody should have any illusion that that is the end of the challenge, in terms of safeguarding the democracy we have known throughout our history. >> you mentioned liz cheney. i want to play kasie hunt's interview with liz cheney, when she's talking about the decision the doj is facing. listen. >> the question for us is are we a nation of laws, are we a country where no one is above the law, and what do the facts and the evidence show, and, certainly, i've been very clear. i think he's guilty of the most serious dereliction of duty of any president in our nation's history. we had the federal judge in california say, it's more likely than not that he and
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johnny committed two crimes. so, you know, i think that we're going to continue to follow the facts. i think the department of justice will do that. they have to make decisions about prosecution, though, understanding what it means if the facts and the evidence are there, and they decide not to prosecute. how do we then call ourselves a nation of laws? i think that's a very serious, serious balance. >> so, kim is being really, really clear. i think the rest of us on this committee is on the same page. there's been a lot of back and forth about what they expect from the doj. >> yeah. i agree completely with what liz cheney says. i agree that people have to go to the ballot box in november and vote for people with integrity, and in this moment, that happens to be primarily democrats, with a few publicans that still care about the restitution and the rule of law. mayor garland has so much on her shoulders, tremendous
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pressure from both sides. the left is pushing for a long time for her not doing anything. the right is attacking even the idea of indicting a sitting president, or a former president, but i do think that, you know, he will take it as far as he needs to go. then, the question will be how will the american public respond to it. i've been watching history channel about abraham lincoln. we have seen this moment in the past, in different fashion, of course, but this really is a moment in american history where the mockery itself, our way of life, liberties, freedoms, our ability to choose our own government, to not have bullies that are there through strong-armed tactics, decided things for ourselves and our children, that is this moment. i just hope and agree with liz cheney. i hope we can all rise to the occasion and save it for our future. >> phil, i want to play this right now and get you to respond.
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i know you want to jump in here, but i was looking forward, solace looking down my note, and saw the information. i want to play with eric holder said, to continue this. >> my guess is that, by the end of this process, you're going to see indictments for the high- level people in the white house. you're going to see indictments against people outside the white house, advising them, with regard to the attempt to steal the election. i think, ultimately, you're probably going to see the former president of the united states indicted, as well. >> that's an interview on sirius xm of joe madison, a frequent guest on the show. go on, fill. >> boy, this makes me extremely uncomfortable. i cannot disagree with liz cheney more. i'm not saying, whether she's right or wrong about the former president, but i do not like democrats or republicans telling judges and the department of justice whom they should prosecute. president trump and his advisors said, lock her up for michael flynn. should the department of justice have been pursued? announcing the cases are equivalent. i'm saying, i do not like blind justice being altered by a
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political leader. let me give you one final tactical view on this, don. that is if the department of justice, mayor garland, the attorney general, pursues this now, what's donald trump going to say? this is a political game, pursued by my opponents, the deep state, including adam kinsinger and liz cheney, to go after me. >> was going to say that, regardless he's going to set nicholas, phil. >> i take your point. >> he's going to say that, regardless of the indictment. >> don't give him ammo, though. makes it look like politicians are telling them what to do. >> look, if you don't indict him -- i'm not saying you should or shouldn't, what i'm saying is that donald trump will take whatever happens, and he will twist it in his favor. mi wrong with that? >> don't give him ammo. >> ron -- >> real quick? we're really talking about a two-front struggle to preserve american democracy. one, the legal arena, and these
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decisions of the justice department, the other, the political arena, as you have on this with candidates trying to, you know, tilted the playing field and advance trump's misdirection and lies about 2020. one person really on the spot, doug ducey, the governor of arizona, who defended and certified the election. he now has an entire slate of republican nominees, saying, he was either wrong or nacve, or is lying, and is he going to go out and basically say, let's give them the power to control the next election? i think the standard liz cheney has set really puts a spotlight on what doug ducey does in the next few days or weeks. >> all right. thank you, all. i appreciate it. did you want to say something, phil? >> don, don -- thank you. >> you're not old enough for this. >> i'm waiting for the twitter trolls to come out. bring it on. let's go. >> really, don't even waste your time there. bye-bye.
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>> all right, see you. >> that's "snl," from the '80s. thank you, guys. i appreciate it. brittney griner's nightmare got worse now. the nba star, today, sentenced to nine years. can the u.s. still make a deal to get her out? >> i want to say, again, i have no intent of breaking any russian laws, no intent to conspire or plan to commit the crime. hey, i just got a text from my sister. you remember rick, her neighbor? sure, he's the 76-year-old guy who still runs marathons, right? sadly, not anymore. wow. so sudden. um, we're not about to have the "we need life insurance" conversation again, are we? no, we're having the "we're getting coverage
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tonight, 42 seconds of silence for the griner at the phoenix mercury game. the wnba star wears number 42, found guilty today of drug smuggling, with criminal intent by a russian court.griner's legal team says, they will appeal the nine-year sentence. president biden is:the ruling unacceptable, but it is unclear if it will reignite prisoner swap talks. cnn's plank and has the
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latest. >> reporter: brittney griner's legal team says, she was actually shaken after a russian court sentenced her to nine years in jail on drug charges, saying, only this to her camera, as she was led out of the courtroom >> brittney, how do you feel? >> reporter: this, after griner made an emotional appeal to the court, holding up a photo of the team she plays for in russia, at times, breaking out in tears. >> my club, the fans, and the city. my mistake that i made, i brought it unknowingly. >> reporter: the wnba star and two-time old medalist in the mix pleaded guilty to the charges but said, she didn't intend to bring beeping cartridges containing cannabis oil to russia, where she was detained at a moscow airport in february. >> i never intended to hurt anybody or put in jeopardy the russian population. i never meant to break any laws here. i made an honest mistake, and i
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hope that, in your ruling, it doesn't end my life. >> but that did not move the judge, who ruled that griner acted with criminal intent for the nine-year sentence, to be served in a penal colony, detention and labor facilities, often far away from the russian capital. brittney griner's lawyer, clearly angry and disappointed, and vowing to fight on >> [ speaking foreign language ] >> translator: we think the verdict was totally out of order. it does not correspond to what's happening, and what happened. it's totally going against the actual part of the russian penal code. >> reporter: both the white house and state department condemned the verdict and the long jail sentence. the u.s. lists brittney griner as being wrongfully detained, and says, it's put what it calls a substantial offer on the table to bring both brittney griner and former marine paul we'll end, currently serving a 16-year
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jail sentence in russia, home. the u.s. embassy was inside the courtroom near moscow, and said, the united states will continue to fight for brittney griner. >> president biden's national security team and entire american government remain committed to wringing this gunner home safely to her family, friends and loved ones. met >> reporter: don, i spoke to brittney griner's lawyers after the verdict came down, and they were certainly disappointed and said, they believe none of the points they made were really taken into consideration by the court at all. they have 10 days to file an appeal against this verdict, and they say, that is exactly what they're going to do. at the same time, of course, one of the things that defense team has always said, they have said, they believe a verdict and sentencing needed to be in place for a prisoner swap to happen. they say, they hope that can happen very soon, don.
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>> thank you very much. appreciate that. bringing in now jordan franks. he was a consultant on the case of trevor reed, released from russia in a prisoner swap earlier this year, also helped to free michael white for -- from i ron, i should say. while, nine years in the penal colony. the attorney said, the average time in jail for this kind of crime is five years. you expect her to get those nine years. keep the evening going well. >> good evening. thanks for having me back, don. i listened to the proceeding, because it was live streamed. it did -- i understand why your attorneys believe that the arguments weren't taken into account. i think they made some great arguments about the legality of the search, and also, you know, in mitigations. this is, effectively, you know, the cannabis equivalent of a
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cigarette, and they have made her out to be pablo escobar. it's not fair to her. the way they paraded her is just outrageous. >> she said, she will be in the renal colony. what will she be facing? what will that be like? >> reporter: depends on where she is taken, and whether she is taken anywhere near home. she is famous. you never know what they will do. they can make it up as they go along. certainly, i think the conditions for the penal colony will also be harsher than they are in pre-detention. >> the u.s. is really trying to negotiate a prisoner swap with russia. the deal on the table is to give russia back the arms dealer for another american, being held, paul whelan. do you think this is still on the table right now? >> absolutely. getting viktor bout back has been a national priority of
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russia since at least 2016. they sent officials over here, who visited him, then left and remarked that, perhaps, he would one be treated for an american prisoner. so, they put a lot of time and effort into getting viktor bout back. i'm not convinced , you know, that they don't want him. i have a feeling they're going to come rally. >> are you concerned at all, jonathan, that russia is using griner as a political pond, considering their current war with ukraine? >> yeah. i am. i think part of it is they were looking for leverage in these prisoner trade negotiations, which, at the time of her arrest, were going nowhere fast. so, i've often wondered if it was to leverage that she was clearly targeted in the airport. they know who she is. they figured, she would help, you know, taking her would help
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advance their objectives, somehow. it's quite transparent. >> jonathan, do you have any advice? is there any advice, or anything you would want to say to brittney griner's family, if they're listening? >> i would say to them, hang on. it's going to be okay. we can't ever tell families when it's going to be okay, or how it's going to be okay, but the good odds are that it will be okay. right? i have sat in many living rooms with a lot of families in these times of crisis, and it's heartbreaking. you know, you just kind of have to sit there, you know, try very hard not to cry with them. >> jonathan franks, thank you. i appreciate it. >> thanks, don. >> a right-wing leader, getting huge applause from the crowd in dallas. the leader, the prime minister of hungary and what he said may shock you, next.
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the honduran prime minister, one of the opening speeches in this year's conservative political action comments, or cpac, in dallas. the four-right anti-immigration populace, often compared to trumm, slamming those he considers, quote, the enemies of freedom. watch >> progressive liberals didn't want me to be here, because they knew what i would tell you. because i'm here to tell you that we should unite our forces, because we hungarians know -- because we hungarians know how to defeat the enemies of freedom on the political battlefield. >> i want to discuss now with cnn political commentators,
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scott jennings. hello, scott. you are smiling. let me play this out. i know why you are laughing. just last month, i need to tell you, there was a speech where they told the crowd, europeans, quote, do not want to become peoples of mixed race, which prompted his own longtime aide to quit in protest, calling it propaganda. so, the question is why is he invited to cpac? scott jennings. >> well, first of all, i'm smiling, because i'm happy to see you, happy to see my friend, charlie. thanks for having me on . good to be with you both tonight. look, the right has been infatuated with this guy the last few years. mostly, i think, over immigration. he has had a heart-line immigration stance. as you know, the motivating policy for donald trump when he came on the scene. it strikes me that that's where the infatuation with him started
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is not unusual in this country. i will say, for political parties, to become infatuated with foreign leaders. the left was infatuated with fidel castro for a few years. not so long ago. so, is not the first time it's happened. i tend to look inward for my inspiration in politics. i would love for there to be a lot of panels about inflation with cpac, using inflation in the elections this fall, but they went down this road, largely, i think, because it to them, he represents someone who did what you did, and take a hard line on immigration, not letting people out of their country. >> charlie, i want you to respond to that, but i want to play this to our viewers as much as possible. this was one of the biggest applause lines of the day. watch. >> hungarian state institutions are obliged to protect the christian country of hungary. hungary shall protect the institution of marriage, and the union of one man and one woman. family ties -- family ties shall be based on marriage, or
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relationships between parents and children. to sum it up, the mother is a woman, the father is a man, and leave our kids alone. full stop, end of discussion! >> so, let's be honest. the rhetoric that lgbtq acceptance is, somehow, a threat to children is more than just nonsense. >> don, it is. he is in a liberal populist and ablest, part of the transnational movement, that you can call the alternative for germany. germany, in france with lapenne, trump is him in america, the five-star movement in italy, and his democratic backsliding going on in hungary. i can't understand why cpac would give a platform to someone like this. yes, he is doing all the dog
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whistles, no immigrants, the lgbt community, and others. i am astounded that cpac would have a liberal populist speaking there. they may change their name from cpac to taylor robson, because this is really sick over the years, they would have ron or rand paul to win. of course, that is not reflective of the republican party, for that matter, but that is where these guys are. i think it's time that conservative leaders turned their backs and the platform people like this. orban is another guy who plays footsie with vladimir putin. this guy's more like a turkish leader than any other western leader. i'm hoping the european union, at some point, sets standards for democratic values among
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their members, because hungary's in a bad place. by the way, only on tucker carlson's show, and only in cpac is hungary a place where they're talking about hungarian exception list. a country of 10 million people, homogenous, relatively poor. i didn't know we were trying to be like them. >> scott, you want to respond? >> yeah, a quick end, i thought it was interesting. just the other day in congress, we had a vote on marriage. obviously, quite a few republicans in both the house and senate voted for marriage on the floor. what he said is actually not a uniform position within the republican party. during the trump years, i think the republican party got far more liberal, if you will, on that particular question, and there are a lot of people around donald trump who have expressed an openness to marriage equality. so, i thought that him bringing that up and getting the applause was interesting, and only because i think, in the last few years, republicans have moved far, far closer to
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the militant country on this >> that's what i was going to ask you, why on earth would he bring it up? why would he get such applause? i have to say, after overturning roe, justice clarence thomas' signal that other cases could be next, like same-sex marriage. so, then why is the gop considering what scott just said, charlie? why is the gop harping on this? not going to be a real issue. >> i think we have to understand, people at cpac are not representative of a lot of things into this country. it is true -- seems that more and more americans -- myself included -- certainly accept same-sex marriage, marriage equality, and many publicans, like scott, i mentioned, have voted to support same-sex marriage. again, cpac is a freak show. i'm going to be honest, that is a freak show. we are going to have people standing up there, we're going to apply people like victor were bond.
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i don't think it's really representative of a lot of people outside that group in the republican party. >> all right, gentlemen. thank you very much. i appreciate it. the administration, declaring monkeypox a public health emergency. what that means for you. that's next. i typed in my dad's name... and i found his childhood home. he's been wondering about the address for seventy years... (chuckle) and i found it in five minutes. travel back in time in no time with the 1950 census on ancestry. with angi, you can connect with and see ratings and reviews. and when you book and pay throug you're covered by our happiness check out angi.com today. angi... and done.
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the biden administration has officially declared the monkeypox outbreak a public health emergency. the first case in the u.s. was identify in mid may. since then, more than 6600 probable or concerned cases have been detected across the country. epidemiologist dr. larry williams. doctor, thank you so much. good to see you. important stuff we are talking about here. many think that more than 6600
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cases are an undercount. how bad are things looking right now? how much worse could this get? >> nice to see you, don. thank you for inviting me. it's certainly an undergarment with a long incubation period, monkeypox. so, the cases you see now are a fraction of those that are coming down the line. but that's not why it's so bad i think, don. i think if you look at 30,000 cases we have had in the world, there have only been but three deaths in that group. so, it's low-case fatality rate. some people think it's very mild, but it is a cousin to smallpox. you can't tell the difference between them under an electric microscope. many lesions are the same, and they may have had a common ancestor. for me and many of my colleagues with the smallpox
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program, if you give monkeypox virus is enough opportunities to mutate and replicate and change, we're worried. even though there's a small chance that might happen, that's one of the biggest issues. >> smallpox vaccine, because the people of a certain age got that as a kid or does that offer some protection still? >> it does. against smallpox, it offers almost lifelong protection. i guess monkeypox, probably about 85% protection. but we've got a better vaccine than the drive vaccine we originally used for smallpox, but it's very limited in quantity. it takes two doses. one of the good rings about this declaration from president biden is it begins to open up our national preserve. there's one more declaration that could yet come, which
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would allow the fda to fast- track the treatment for monkeypox, which has already been approved in europe, but is not approved in the united states, except under its ordinary circumstances. so, these declarations matter. >> let me ask you this, because the biden administration has gotten a lot of decision for not moving fast enough to address this crisis.the white house is pushing back, saying, this can evolve rapidly and uniquely. what do you think? is that true? is that a good excuse? >> you're asking an epidemiologist. for me, they should have acted with 10 cases. i always think they're too slow. >> what should they be doing, then, to pick up the pace? >> they should be making these two different declarations. they should be opening up the stockpiles of vaccines. they should really be fast tracking the treatment, and they should begin to embark on the same methods we use, called a ring vaccination, or surveillance and containment, find every case, find the context, vaccinate them, make it available easily for people to get vaccinated. i think we have to find a way
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to get it for only one dose, because people don't just come back for the second dose. >> let me ask you this. president biden's rebound covid diagnosis, he tested positive again on saturday , after taking paxlovid for the first bout of covid. he continues to test positive. can you explain to us why it is let me say this . most of the people i know in my personal life, impacts on it, got rebound from covid . >> i'm in your life. aren't i? so did i. >> you got rebound covid from taking paxlovid? >> i had -- it's not really a rebound. that's what we can get into, more than just semantics. i believe that the paxlovid dosing, which was a treatment over five days, was probably adequate against the variant they tested during the trials, which was the delta variant. it's simply not adequate in many people's cases for this new ba-5. it's just not. ba-5 is able to evade both the
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treatment and prior infections. so, i'm hoping that, as part of this renewed interest in all things epidemiological, we will see a new trial, and maybe it's a 10-day course that's better. we will see. >> all right. doctor, thank you so much. i appreciate it. >> as always, good to see you. we'll see you next time. >> we'll be right back. - custom ink helps us celebrate and drive our students' achievements with custom gear. they love custom ink's different styles and designs. we love how custom ink makes the process simple with their easy to use design lab, expert artists ready to help and unbeatable customer service.
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1 in 44 americans, believed to be on the autism spectrum. studies have shown that black and brown children, on average, are diagnosed later than white children, and are less likely to access critical assistance, due, in part, to racist bias and cultural stigma. this week cnn's hero is making changes. debra vines, struggling when her son, jason, was diagnosed with autism. now, her nonprofit serves those in underserved areas outside of chicago, with the support, services and community education they need to thrive.>> what is your plan? >> being a parent of a child with autism in the '80s and '90s was very, very
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challenging. mostly, i found i was the only black woman there. we have a color, income, and equity barrier, period. it was all types of barriers. good morning! everything we provide is a blueprint of what i was missing, as a parent. so, we have a way to make it go to classes. we are a family. i'm very adamant about educating, because people are afraid of what they don't understand. we want to make sure that first responders are trained in how to deal with our children. >> how long has your mom been doing this kind of stuff? >> because he's smiling, it makes him a little bit easier. but what if you get a hold of somebody who is running around, and they by themselves? advocacy is a gift. i'm good at it, and it makes me feel so good. >> a hero. to see debra's full story and learn more about her work, including how she is educating the police in her area, go to
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a warm welcome to our viewers joining us in the united states and all around the world. i'm max foster in london. just ahead -- >> these conversations are taking place between the justice department's top prosecutor who is leading the investigation into january 6 and into the efforts to interfere with the election. >> today's sentencing is a reminder of what the world already knew. russia is wrongfully detaining brittney griner. >> that will go on and on
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