telling cnn authorities did not believe that the former president and his aides had returned all the documents, and of the materials that had been taken to mar-a-lago when he left office. i want to bring in sarah murray, covering the story for us. and state attorney for palm beach county, florida. good to see you both. we are learning that this fbi search after suspicions with of withheld materials, what else can you tell us? >> part of what made this perplexing to the people in donald trump's orbit was that his attorneys were engaging on this issue, this notion that he took documents with him when he left the white house that the justice department wanted back, but what we are learning is authorities were suspicious that the trump team wasn't

being truthful with them. they were concerned that the trump team was holding back documents, that they weren't putting forward everything that they had available, and they were also concerned that some of the documents could potentially have national security implications. that's part of what led to this search. >> dave, you've been talking to local law enforcement, i'm wondering what you are learning there in florida. >> first, we in the state attorney's office did not know about this search in advance, neither did local law enforcement. you can understand why. when you are dealing with something so sensitive, something so unprecedented, you can understand why the feds would keep this close to the vest. what i was told is that the secret service met them there, and walked the plainclothes fbi agents throughout the property, where they collected documents. they collected 10 boxes full of documents. it was pretty smooth, and orderly operation. when donald trump calls it a raid or acs, those are political terms.

because he wants to be the mega candidate for president again in 2024, and the best way to do that is become a maggot martyr. he's on his way to doing just that. the question is, for how long? >> the idea of plainclothes officers is interesting, that being a little under the radar, i've asked the question, if this happened early in the morning, it took several hours before we were aware, and only then through the former president, and we are getting information about investigators going after to mar-a-lago's surveillance footage. what you know about that? >> it's hard to know how this fits in, but what we are learning is justice department investigators subpoenaed the trump organization, and what they were looking for were surveillance tapes from mar-a- lago. we were told the trump organization complied, they handed those tapes over, and this happened to be for the fbi search at to mar-a-lago. what we don't know is what was on those surveillance tapes, if there was something on that

that led investigators to be concerned and want to move, we don't know the answer to that at this point. >> are we talking about external or internal, inside a private residence, are we still learning about where the footage may have covered? >> we are still learning information about where the footage covered. we had now learned that what they were searching was inside, to mar-a-lago, they were looking into the former president's office and some of his personal areas, a closet at one point eric trump said, it's unclear what they might have seen on the surveillance tapes of or what area it would've covered. >> why do you think the doj wants that footage, and what could they be looking for? is it a matter of how easy it is to exit and enter the facility and the buildings and figure out just how porous this may have been for information to come in and out? >> they are worried that these boxes of documents were so sensitive that they could expose national security secrets.

they want to know who's going in and out, and they don't trust the former president with safeguarding it. that's why, in my mind, the issue of the search warrant as opposed to a subpoena. in most cases they would just send a subpoena, but that means the fact that they didn't do so, that they don't trust donald trump to respond to the subpoena honestly. that's a sad indictment of our politics, that a former president can't be trusted to respond to a lawfully issued subpoena, so they had to go by surprise. they had to seize the documents themselves, and they had to look at the footage to see who's gone in and who's going out. it's a complete lack of trust between law enforcement and the former president. >> and it's prudent, if you think that there is something that might be fleeting or that might have legs, you would executed in this fashion, or just not extend the benefit of the doubt if somebody has already taken documents that are sensitive. i wonder why you would continue to trust on that notion. sarah, you have new reporting, there are public [

indiscernible. ] seized by the fbi, is this related to what we are talking about in mar-a-lago? or distinct? >> right now it appears to be distinct with the caveat that we don't know, a number of these investigations are or were there will intersect. that's always the caveat. but what scott perry said in a statement was he was traveling with his family, he was confronted by three fbi agents who had a warrant and that he seized his phone. we've been learning from a source familiar with the contents of that warrant, this appears to be related to the justice department investigation into jeffrey clark, a former justice department official. scott perry was the one who introduced jeffrey clark to donald trump, then jeffrey clark went on with trump to buy into these election fraud claims, come up with this crazy attempt to have a coup at the justice department, so what the doj does is they investigate wrongdoing from former justice department officials.

scott perry is not one of those, but, his interaction with jeffrey clark might be why this is of interest. here's a part of what scott perry had to say about this today, he said i'm outraged though not surprised that the fbi would seize the phone of a sitting member of congress. my phone contained info about my legislative and political activities and personal private discussions with my wife, family, constituents and friends. none of this is the government's business. we should note that we are told his phone was imaged and then returned to him and that it was pretty clear that investigators were going to have to go to a court and get a second warrant in order to look at the contents of the phone, which suggests they are taking precautions to make sure that they are only looking for things relevant to their investigation, not poring over the entire contents of scott perry's phone. >> privacy concerns are a real thing, and that notion, sarah, dave, thank you so much. there's a lot going on at doj and we will continue to follow these stories.

to mar-a-lago search part of their investigation to trump's handling of that information as well, but, the justice department is in the middle of a january 6th criminal investigation. here to discuss this is cnn legal analyst jennifer rogers and contributor to garrett graff, the author of watergate, and new history. jennifer, let me begin with you. as you can imagine, there has been quite a visceral, political reaction to all that we've heard. you've got some republicans making out that the search was arrayed and it came out of nowhere, but the doj had been pushing forward on this investigation for over a year. they were meeting at to mar-a- lago with trump lawyers, is this push coming to shove? >> we don't know exactly what the search warrant will uncover, and we don't know whether it had just to do with classified documents, or as you said, the broader january 6th

investigation. it seems to me it's probably the former, i don't think they are there yet on the january 6th investigation in terms of search warrants into the former president. but, the thing that i've learned doing espionage cases is that if there are classified documents out there that are not in the proper place, not being protected, not in the position of someone who is supposed to have them, the government is very serious and intend on getting them back. that's their top priority. if it came to the government's attention through whatever source that the 15 boxes they retrieved in january was not the end of the story and there were more materials that needed to be retrieved, that would be very important to them, and if they decided that trump and his folks were not being forthcoming with them, were not handing over documents, there was this runaround with respect to meeting with the government, they would've taken action and gotten a search warrant. we are speculating, but my best guess is that some of that is what happened, and led to the search we saw. >> that's important, because so many times people think that the only result of the actions

of the fbi in trying to seize or get back property is that it has to be a conviction or indictment. sometimes the goal is to get back what they believe needed to be properly secured. whether that will satisfy the public and the electorate, who might have an appetite for prosecution, a different story. to that point, garrett, you say this search in mar-a-lago was deemed necessary, says a lot about the doj case. tell me why. >> one of the things we need to be starting to think about and focus on is why donald trump took these specific documents. and the clearly adversarial nature of these conversations between the government and trump, and his lawyers, and his staff at to mar-a-lago. there's clearly something in these documents that donald trump thinks he needs to keep hold of that the government thinks is a big national security secret.

it is hard to imagine the justice department and merit garland taking an unprecedented step like this over routinely classified documents. as you and jennifer know, the government classifies all manner of documents at all levels, much of which is not actually all that sensitive. this does not seem to be the case. this seems to be a set of documents that the government cares a great deal about. we have heard in earlier reporting this year that some of them were labeled the top secret level, some appear to be sensitive compartmentalized information, sort of even higher than top-secret, more sensitive than top-secret. and, that, i think part of what i imagine the doj is thinking about is, who stood to benefit from donald trump taking these

documents? why did he want them? why won't he give them back to the u.s. government? >> that's the real question. many people who first heard this story yesterday thought, we've already gotten the story about the 15 boxes and the national archives. we can still be talking about that. but in reality we are talking about more, and the idea of being entitled to keep them, if he were still the president of the united states, he would be able to declassify something at his whim, whether that's prudent or not, a different discussion. but that's not grandfathered over once you are the former president of the united states, right? what you got when you were the president doesn't become yours forever declassify and declassify at your whim. >> that's correct. as soon as he was out of office on january 20th, his ability to declassify ended, and for example, there were some suggestions by cash patel that

he may have verbally declassify the documents that he took with him, but there's more to declassify and then just saying, i hereby declassify. you have to change the markings on the documents, there's paperwork things that have to be done to ensure the documents that you've declassified are now marked accordingly as unclassified documents. the government will be able to tell as they review these documents whether or not they have been properly declassified, just by looking at them. they will know whether or not he did that, and whether they are dealing with truly classified information that was being mishandled or whether he actually did declassify things before he headed out the door. >> i can't help but think about the episode of the office when michael scott declares bankruptcy by shouting out of bankruptcy, as if that's how it's done. that would be an odd thing to have happened at the presidential level if they can't corroborate that in subway. garrett, my last question to you, i wonder when you think about the politics of this, the idea of the culmination of

additional criminal probes that are happening, the january 6th committee, everything going on, you've written the book about watergate and the politics surrounding it. when you look at this, what is the political implications and legacy of what we are seeing now? >> there are two different ways of looking at it, one is, this was one of the most sensitive actions of the u.s. justice department has ever taken. there are really only three analogs that come to mind in my memory of the modern government, and justice department. the watergate special prosecutions force subpoena of richard nixon's white house tapes, the fbi's attempt to get a dna sample from president clinton amid the investigation of clinton's relations with monica lewinsky, and the fbi raid and investigation of michael cohen, the president's lawyer while donald trump was in office. this is one of the most

sensitive things of the justice department has ever done. the political implications are too soon to tell, we don't know where we are in the donald trump story, what other shoes may drop, jennifer mentioned the chances that there are other subpoenas or search warrants to come. it is a remarkable statement about this moment in history that when word leaked last night about the fbi search of mar-a-lago, there were a half- dozen possible cases turning their way to the federal government that it might have been related to, and it took several hours for us to even begin to imagine which specific case investigating donald trump this was related to. >> and remember, all we know is not from the doj or the fbi, explaining that, and being specific.

it's all coming from the person who has a copy of the search warrant and has not released it, donald trump. thank you, jennifer and garrett, nice talking to both of you. speaking of the political fallout, they are calling for the attorney general to be assassinated. they are calling to kill all feds. and that's just some of the violent rhetoric from extremist on pro-trump internet. stay with us, i'll tell you more.

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hello, colonial penn? lock and load.". that was a top comment on an online form dedicated to former president donald trump. soon after he confirmed that his floor to mar-a-lago resort had been searched by the fbi. cnn finding other violent post online, many of them very explicit. like this one. quote, i'm just going to say it, attorney general merit garland needs to be assassinated. simple as that.". another user posted, kill all

feds. let's talk about it now with professor of political science at the university of chicago, also here is cnn national security analyst juliet, a former department of homeland security official. led to have both of you here. it's not lost on me that a few weeks ago, maybe more than a month ago, you had the dhs bulletin coming out, talking about the uptake of disturbing and increasingly violent rhetoric around political grievances in particular. juliet, tonight these are some extremely disturbing posts, and i wonder what your first concern is when you see language like this. >> it's obviously the base, the violent base is agitated, radicalized even more, they are on everything from true social to twitter, and more public forums. threatening violence against

public officials, threatening a generic civil war, that's what they focused on, language of civil war and a connecticut civil war. these vague threats elevate the likelihood that one of those individuals would follow through with it, and that is i think the challenge right now that the raid, that what happened at mar-a-lago, whatever it is, because we don't know what it was, triggered this action and trump is certainly as he has for the last six years, going to take advantage of it. that's a lot of what he has, now, as his base is the violence, or the threat of violence, he is seeing the party through polling, not necessarily move away from him, but there are strong sentiments to not have him be the nominee in two years, there is disunion and disaffection within the radical groups that support him. these are the metrics that he judges success. noise, as it has been the last six years, is how he judges

power. and violence is his tool. >> speaking of those metrics, and of course civil war, robert, according to a scene in review of a service that tracks twitter activity, there was a surge in tweets monday mentioning civil war, and i wonder, what you make of that. the uptick in language. she said the phrase of a kinetic civil war, what are you seeing? >> juliet is exactly right about to be concerned, so, what we did just today is, we did analytics on twitter feeds looking at the phrase civil war, going back about a week so we could see the period before the raid and after. and what you see is that that phrase, civil war, shows up in tweets about 500 times per hour, and it's happening every hour for about six, seven days

in a row, then at 7:00 p.m. last night, as soon as the news came out, it starts to spike, and not just a little bit. within three hours it went from 500 per hour to 16,000 per hour. that was a 3000 fold increase in the community support online community support, to be sure, for supporting and encouraging violence that could be termed a civil war. we know from studying the political violence around the world that these levels of change in community support can encourage, as juliet said, lone wolf, they can encourage individuals, the buffalo shooter, this is not happening in a vacuum. this is happening when community support grows, so we need to be concerned about that arise.

>> juliet, that's a stunning figure that you've just given. but it's more particular as well, cnn found that users were encouraging others to post the address of the judge they believe signed off on the search warrant, and a comment under one picture of the judge read, i see a rope around his neck. this is coming off of the heels where we've had justice brett kavanaugh's life threatened, somebody arrested, you have legislation pending by a new jersey judge, whose son lost his life when somebody try to attack and assault her. also shooting her husband. this is extraordinarily dangerous. >> the attacks on public figures and judges as well, i happen to be married to one, is serious. and real right now, and requires vigilance by a whole apparatus of state and federal law enforcement to protect people who are just doing their duty. is the judge a trump appointee or not? that's irrelevant, and what's important for people to

remember is that, we are not powerless in this. if we focus on the anger and the hatred that trump has directed over the years, that core group is never going to be changed. the measure of success from a counterterrorism or counter radicalization standpoint is going to be, are there fewer people that angry? can we begin to minimize the ideology? ideologies do not die in one fell swoop, everyone wants, everyone on twitter, liberals on twitter want him in jail and want decisive action, that's not how to think about this. this is a long-term struggle against a dark, violent movement that has gotten a stronghold within our politics and the gop. i don't know how this ends, but i know how to measure success, and that is whether these groups continue to grow, and the metrics right now are they

are not growing. we are finding it hard to recruit, finding it hard to raise money. their leader is the platform, he is isolated, he cannot fill a room. these rallies, the irony is he can either be the nominee for president of the united states, or he could be in jail and alone at mar-a-lago, and that's what the fight looks like. this is exactly how violent ideologies get weaker. they don't end. >> sadly, sometimes it only takes one person to act in a way that can devastate so many. juliet, robert, thank you so much. a big day for the biden administration. legislative wins, international policy wins with all the trump discussions and drama, how exactly does biden breakthrough? neutrogena®. for people with skin.

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a historic day for the biden ministration. the president signing the chips and science act into law. signing documents ratifying the entry of finland and sweden into the nato alliance, and it all comes on the heels of a huge win in the senate for the inflation reduction act. but with his predecessor once again in the headlines, people are wondering, can the biden administration really breakthrough? joining me to discuss, also the author of joe biden, the life, the run, and what matters now. glad to have you here. things were going pretty good for the president and the administration, then mar-a-lago happened, what issues does this raise in your mind for this current white house? >> i can tell you one thing, joe biden has always had this belief that for every high there is a low in your life, it's a natural balance sheet, you've seen it play out over the last couple days. but we have to pause and

consider for a moment, what they've actually done recently. there is a theme that runs through, you're the president talk about her today at the signing of this nato expansion. he said, this phrase should be memorable, he said we can write the future we want to see. that's not just casual political language, that's a response to the distress that you hear in surveys from americans who feel as if we are, in effect, tapped into these forces beyond our control, things like the pandemic, the rise of china, the russian aggression, and expanding nato, something that people said was all that brain- dead, is a sign that we can do these things. and that's the thing that you're going to hear more from him, is not a silver bullet but is beginning to make the case. >> there are those writing the chapters around the administration in a sense of wanting to focus on something quite distinct, and a few months ago as we were covering

more intensely what was happening in ukraine, the prospect of nato expanding would have been the story of the week, the idea of thinking about what was going on, yet we see that with all of the legislative wins with what's happening in mar-a-lago with the chatter around our elections, some of what the biden administration wants to write is different, and in particular, what they might want to say is different. there have been calls from both sides for merrick garland to give some answers about just what this search of mar-a-lago is about. even though the white house and president biden knew nothing about it, i'm wondering when we've got this level of mistrust, can they realistically stay silent about it? and have a hands-off approach? >> you heard them today be clear, they said, they were adamant about the fact they didn't know this was coming, any political amateur at home would say that a white house if

they have the luxury of being able to schedule something like this would not have done it on a week that would have stepped right on top of their efforts to have a victory lap and talk about the things they think are going well. there is a long-term approach, here, a strategy, even in a time of real hyper partisanship like this, there are things getting done in washington that actually have appeal. three of the biggest bills that have been passed recently were actually done with bipartisan support. the chips act, which you mentioned, nato expansion, veterans benefits and a couple months ago, the gun control bill. all of those done with republican votes. there are people who are dug in on the other side, who will never vote for jill biden. and there are people in the middle who might be tiring of the psychodrama that we are drawing ourselves back into this week. involving the former president who say, it's time to move on, these are not the kinds of things that will solve the problems in my life and the

kinds of things that seem to be happening in washington might help me. >> as jordan peel says, nope. i will leave the rest to everyone else out there, thank you so much, nice to see you. speaking of writing in america, its primary night in america, and their voters across the country who are writing their choices. they are filling in the bubbles that will do so, and in wisconsin it's trump candidate versus princes candidate, but both of them, they spout election lies.

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results are coming in from primary races in four different states tonight, there's been a lot of talk about the proxy war playing out between trump and pence and the race for wisconsin republican candidate for governor. but both of the candidates in that race have embraced trump's election lies. pence is pick falsely claims the 2020 election was rigged, and drums pick tim michael's is going further indicating that he may look into measures to decertify biden's victory in wisconsin. i want to bring in ruth a professor at nyu, and author of strong men, mussolini to the present, i'm glad you're here. wisconsin is one example. there are countless election deniers that are on the ballots, is democracy on the ballot? before you answer that question, we can project that tim nichols, he's a construction company owner endorsed by trump and had gone

further in embracing the election lies mostly by indulging efforts to decertify president jill biden's victory in the state, he has now been the projected winner, defeating vice president princes endorsed candidate, this is an example of election deniers being victorious. what does that tell you? >> it goes beyond even denying an election, it's highly subversive. it following a trend set by the texas republican party, which passed a resolution saying that it not only didn't accept the 2020 results, it considered biden an illegitimate president and calls him an acting president, as though he's going to be leaving soon. from office. so, this is the fruit of trump, people say trump is lazy. but, he is a highly skilled propagandist and he worked ceaselessly be for 4 years, five years, to convince

americans that their system was rigged, that they couldn't trust their elections, and that prepped everybody to believe the big lie. and then he made it party dogma, so anybody who wants to get ahead in the republican party has to espouse this lie. and we see the results in wisconsin and elsewhere. >> we are also seeing the results of those who are running for secretary of state positions, those who might be in charge of running elections, and we know that there has been a political price that has been paid by some who have dared to speak out against the former president. gop congresswoman jamie herrera butler tonight is now conceding her primary contest from last week's race in washington state, she is now the third house republican who voted to impeach trump who has now lost a primary this year alone, four are not seeking reelection, two have advanced and congresswoman liz cheney is awaiting her primary.

what does that tell you about the future of the gop, and where it might be headed? >> isaiah the gop as having its exiting democracy, it acts like an authoritarian party if you look at other authoritarian parties past and present, one of the things that distinguishes them is the leader cold, and you've got to be loyal to the leader above all. but the other thing that trump did, and we are seeing it in the results of these primaries, is you can't have any internal dissent. you are not allowed to have any culture of democracy within the party. so this started while he was in the office where peter meyer, one of the people now, when he voted to impeach trump interbreed 2021, he had to buy body armor, because he got threats. and the rhino phenomenon where you go after people in your own party who are not loyal.

this is not democratic behavior. this is authoritarian. these election results we are seeing now are bearing this out, that it's not possible to have any democratic dissent within the republican party, because it's no longer a democratic party. >> if that is the future, i wonder what it will hold in november at the general election when we are talking about a more varied electorate who has to decide who will be the leaders in these different states. a question, frankly, i don't think anyone has a clear answer to today, tomorrow, and maybe not even in a few weeks from now for this issue. thank you for your time tonight, nice speaking with you. a mississippi grand jury is now declining to invite carolyn bryant dunham. that's the white woman whose accusations led to the brutal killing of a young emmett till nearly 70 years ago.

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a grand jury in mississippi declining to invite carolyn bryant dunham, if that name sounds familiar, she is the white woman who accused a 14- year-old black teenager, emmett till, of making advances towards her nearly 70 years ago. those accusations led to tills of brutal death. a murder that shook america to its core, and frankly does to this day. only after emmett till's mother decided to have an open casket

funeral, and a warning that this image is disturbing, for the world to see what they did to her boy. the horrors done to her son. emmett till would have turned 81 years old two weeks ago. cnn legal analyst ariba martin joins me now. nothing at all lessens the shock and pain of seeing that image. or thinking about this happening seven decades ago. yet, after seven hours of testimony, the grand jury decided there wasn't enough evidence to indict her on kidnapping or manslaughter charges. there's a difference between how people think about moral culpability, legal culpability, and what a grand jury would be deciding. right? >> absolutely. it's shocking as this story is, and the horrors of it, even 70 years later, as painful to

think about what happened to emmett till. i'm not surprised that the grand jury did not come back with an indictment for carolyn bryant. we know that there have been efforts over the last 10 or 15 years to have the case reopened, to have it re- investigated, to have charges brought against carolyn bryant, but every time there has been a reinvestigation of the facts of this case, the outcome has been the same. there's been a determination that there is not enough evidence to charge her, even though we know there was this alleged memoir where carolyn bryant recanted her statement about what emmett till dead, but even with that memoir being out in the public sphere, no district attorney has been willing to move forward with charges against her. >> we learned back in june that there was unserved warrant for his arrest, found charging her, and her then husband roy bryant and brother-in-law jw milam, in

emmett till's abduction. just saying their names, sickens me to think about what they did, what the men, what they did to emmett till. it causes me pain to articulate that. they were arrested and acquitted on murder charges, only to then confess later, but dunham was never taken into custody. this wasn't followed up on. an arrest warrant until now? that is stunning to people. >> it is stunning, and, you talk about the system failing this family, that's what happened, the system failed emmett till's family. this woman who was apparently available, her whereabouts were not unknown, she did not leave the country but to think that she was allowed to escape punishment, to not be held accountable for the role that she played in the lynching of

emmett till, is disturbing. talk about emmett till turning 81, he has a cousin who says he was an eyewitness to what happened, who talked about to this day how painful the entire experience still is, for his family. there are people who are living who were alive at the time. who witnessed this, who can still give testimony about what happened to emmett till. >> what does that say about this country, that we are still searching for justice for this? this was a case, a person who has been so impactful in the overall civil rights movement, the story of emmett till is well known. it is something that is inescapable. >> we have so much work to still do in his country, we've made a lot of progress but, we know we still have a dual justice system, we have a justice system that treats african-americans and people of

color differently. we know the standards that are applied to african-americans are different. we know that the life of 15- year-old black emmett till did not have the same meaning that the wild life of someone who is white, if that had been a white boy that had been killed by two black men, had a black woman been involved, in this conspiracy with these men, to kill a 15-year-old white team, we know the outcome would've been different. that's a reality that we find ourselves in, and it says to us that we can't stop working. we can't stop standing up and we can't stop calling out the injustices that we see with respect to the emmett till case, and that we see played out in cases even in 2022. >> well said, that young boy ought to have become a man. and should be a great grandfather this day. he is not. thank you, everyone, for watching. our coverage continues.

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a warm welcome to our viewers joining us in the u.s. and around the world. i'm max foster in london. just ahead -- >> nobody is above the law. but the law needs to be above politics. >> they need to answer these questions. there better be something of important national security for them to have breached the confidence of the american public. >> just a show. this is like maybe impeachment number four here for trump. that's all it is. >> a tip from the public led them to 51-year-ol