armchair reflection when they are faced with rapidly involving encounters and dangerous situations. once the state investigation is finished, it will be turned over to the county prosecutor for decision on potential charges. thank you for watching. i'm pamela brown in "the situation room." erin burnett out front starts now. former president trump's defense team comparing classified material at mar-a-lago to overdue library books. that was their term. trump and the justice department square off over trump's request for that special master. plus, live pictures from philadelphia where president biden is about to deliver a rare primetime address about the attack on democracy. this as we learn trump is considering full pardons for the january 6 insurrectionists if he runs and wins the presidency in 2024. a troubling find. a dominion voting machine for

sale on ebay. the price tag, $1,200. how did it get there? who bought it? let's go "outfront." i'm poppy harlow in for erin burnett. the former president's attorneys downplaying the classified documents seized from mar-a-lago. that comparison to an overdue library book made by trump's new lawyer, florida's former solicitor general. during the search of trump's home, the fba seized 33 boxes, which included more than 100 classified documents, which were marked confidential, secret and also top secret. that is on top of 15 boxes that trump's team turned over in january where there were 184 classified documents. they reiterated the trump for a special master to examine the documents seized. the judge in all of this did

today stop short of making a final decision at the hearing. we could get her ruling on that any minute. we could soon learn more about what the fbi took in those boxes from trump's home last month. the judge said she's thinking about publically releasing a more detailed list of what was taken from mar-a-lago. this all comes as there is news on another justice department investigation involving trump. the doj's probe into january 6. we are learning the trump's white house counsel, pat cipollone and his former deputy are expected to appear before a grand jury tomorrow. cipollone has been interviewed about the documents at mar-a-lago. they have testified behind closed doors with the january 6 committee. let's begin there. evan perez is in washington. what can you tell us about what happened in the hearing? >> reporter: it was about a two hour hearing.

the judge made clear that she's thinking about appointing this special master. the justice department disagrees with that. they say that there is no need for appointing a special master. they pointed out that this special -- this separate team of lawyers that is not connected to the investigation has gone through these documents, has separated about more than 500 pages of documents that could have some kind of attorney/client privilege material. they have removed that. they have a procedure set up to review that information. she, however, seems to think -- she said in court, what would be the harm to have a third party come and look at these documents, not only for attorney/client privilege but she said that she -- this issue of executive privilege, which the former president says he still has, even though he is not president, something the justice department by the way is disagreeing with. she says that that is something that is not settled law. it's something that she is

obviously still considering. as you pointed out, she said she's going to -- if she appoints a special master, she's going to make sure that the justice department, the fbi don't have access to those documents during the time that that is being reviewed. but she said that potentially the intelligence community would still be able to do their damage assessment, their review of the documents which is something that obviously is very important from a national security perspective. >> no question about it. her ruling in this could come in a little bit. thanks very much for the reporting from washington. ryan goodman, co-editor and chief of the just security legal blog and a professor of law nyu and allen honig. let's begin with the legal

argument that trump's team made that classified documents are essentially like a, quote, overdue library book. >> it's a startling suggestion. it's very cavalier when we are talking about the nation's most heavily guarded secrets, the most highly classified information, higher than top secret. they are being placed in an environment that's very insecure, a resort, subject to public coming in and out, where it also means that the intelligent community is engaged in a damage assessment to see whether or not this implicates the u.s. national security human sources whose lives may be in danger, surveillance programs that might have to be suspended because we have to assume they're compromised. i think it's an unfortunate statement to put it mildly. it's not just receiving a note from your librarian. it's a grand jury subpoena which they seem to have disobeyed. it's something of a much greater magnitude.

>> it's interesting that they made that argument, which is not even a legal argument to make. didn't address one of trump's key defenses. they didn't even get into that. one of trump's lawyers in this argued today in court that the government is the, quote, latest boogie man that a special master would need security clearance and, therefore, it could take a while. if they get it -- if trump's team gets this special master, whether he would need very high security clearance, this is what they are asking for, how much would that slow down the doj's case? >> that's doj's main argument, that to impose a special master will slow us down, gum up the works. we have to settle on who will be the special master. that person will have to be cleared and they will have to do the review. i think if the judge orders a special master, she will take specific steps to try to make this as streamlined as possible. doj argued in their brief, if you do order a special master,

we don't want you to do that, but please order us to get this done within really by the end of september. i think the counter argument from trump's people is, it's worth it. it's worth it if there's more bureaucracy. there's delay because we're trying to protect a person's interests and rights. we want the american public to be assured that his rights rr f were fully projected. that's the competing arguments we heard today. >> the judge is going to let either way the intelligence community keep going through these materials. however, she did indicate that she may temporarily block the justice department from accessing those materials in its criminal probe while the special master, if they get one, does their job. what do you make of that? >> it's really perplexing. it's so hard to even see how this could be wrapped up in executive privilege, which he suggested that would be the scope of the review. therefore, deny executive materials to the exertive branch. that's not how executive

privilege works. it's whether certain materials go to congress or to courts or the public. that part is a non-starter in terms of how the legal theory works. the second part is, what does it mean? how is it workable you share with one part of the executive branch to conduct an intelligence review and not the other, the fbi, which is a part of the intelligence community that needs to do damage assessment? i don't think she can write it that way. when she goes back and tries to write the order that way, i hope that something else will prevail and she won't try to go down that path. it doesn't seem workable. it's not what executive privilege is about. >> trump's lawyer today in this hearing also arguing that appointing a special master would restore order, increase trust in the investigation, lower the temperature. the judge asked prosecutors, doj, what's the harm? do you think the trump team is right on that? >> i think that's a core

argument. it does carry weight. we understand this may take a bit more time. exactly, what's the harm? it will be difficult. it will be inconvenient for you, federal government, doj. that's life. doj gets ordered to do things that are difficult all the time. t trump's argument is we will have our client's interests fully protects, the public will be reassured. i'm not sure given the track record that donald trump's legal time will not complain about his rights being violated ever again if they get their special master. that is the argument here. it comes down to one of convenience and workability on one side versus how far do we go to protect someone's interests, constitutional interests and privilege interests on the other hand? >> stay right there. don't go anywhere. we have new news in. the january 6 committee, the select committee wants to hear from newt gingrich. in a letter to the former republican house speaker, the january 6 committee writes that it wants to discuss his role in pushing bogus claims about the

2020 election being stolen. whitney, this just crossed. i have to tell you, the letter in this language, is stunning. >> reporter: what they are trying to do is draw this line between efforts by newt gingrich to get people angry and to get people to act on that anger. that is the core theme at the center of this letter. the committee is accusing newt gingrich of trying to push others to pursue and exploit claims of election fraud before and even after the riot at the capitol. the committee wants to learn more about communications gingrich had with donald trump's white house about television ads that per petuated false claims. here is the key quote. they are trying to build this letter on this. this is a letter newt gingrich

sent trying to really offer guidance on the television ads . this is at the core of this. the committee continues to push forward this effort that people were exploiting falsehoods, that they knew to be false, that they were doing it to get people angry, that they meant for that anger to manifest in such a way. we saw it happen at the capitol. people did act on their anger. >> thank you very much. let me bring you back in. ryan, you heard that email the january 6 committee says gingrich sent to kushner and other advisors talking about the goal. by the way, this is after the

election. the goal is to arouse the country's anger, et cetera. what do you make of seeing this? >> i think it's incredible information. it suggests that gingrich is involved in two of the schemes that the committee has mapped out. one scheme is to pressure state officials and the other is to push violence, or the anger of the public. it's remarkable to see that's his goal. he doesn't say violence, but he says to push them into anger, to pressure state officials ahead of december 14th. that's remarkable. >> arouse their anger, he says. >> yes. >> pressure public officials. >> yeah. at the core of it is this false claim about the state farm arena and the suitcases disproven by the justice department. the new york state court that suspended giuliani's license, part was because of the video they used. it was clearly false. nobody could see the whole video and think that there was tampering. >> i would note the timing of this.

what bennie thompson is pointing out is that what newt gingrich sent in the email was one week after gabe sterling warned. he went to the lectern and warned people and condemned those making these statements that were egging people on. it was one week after that. he says here the goal is to arouse -- this is newt gingrich -- the country's anger through new verifiable information. legally, would that be a protection against intent? >> this is not a crime. you are allowed to try to motivate people politically by arousing their anger. joe biden is about to speak in front of the building where the constitution was signed. the framers would tell you, it's okay to motivate people through anger. you are not allowed to incite people to violence. the way the letter is framed says we want to arouse people so they will pressure legislators.

the one thing that does jump out about the newt gingrich letter is kushner, the letter says, coordinate with kushner to put outpropaganda. jared kushner has kept himself distanced from this. this is the first indication i have seen that perhaps if the committee is correct that he was involved at least in the disinformation campaign that preceded the attack on the cap capitol. >> thank you on both those fronts. next, donlald trump's forme attorney michael cohen is here. does he think trump's lawyers could take the fall for classified documents that remained at mar-a-lago? live pictures out of philadelphia tonight where president biden is about to address the nation. his warning about the threat to american democracy. tonight, raising the issue, trump raising the issue of pardoning, full pardons for some of the january 6 rioters. listen. >> if i decide to run and if i

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lawyers raising eyebrows by admitting that mar-a-lago guests are frequently in the same office that classified documents were found during the fbi's search, saying, i do have firsthand knowledge, i'm down there frequently. she went on to say, anybody that knows president trump's office, he has guests frequently there. one of donald trump's former attorneys, michael cohen. he received a three year sentence for making hush money payments to women who claimed they had affairs with donald trump. cohen is the host of the mea culpa and the author of a new book. that will be released october 11th. it's been a few years. >> it's been a while. >> thank you for being here. what do you think? you were one of trump's lawyers. are you surprised to hear things like i just read from one of his attorneys? >> absolutely not.

it's something i've been saying for a long time now. that place is completely open. it's directly above the catering hall. it's not just guests. it's not just members. it's anybody that is there hypothetically for a wedding or a christening, bar mitzvah, any event they have. all that separated these individuals from top secret classified documents, ten stairs and one little master lock key. >> one of trump's attorneys, i read one of her quotes there, raised eyebrows for mcomments talking about what charges donald trump could face. let me play some of this sound and get your thoughts on the other side. >> they found these three mundane statues. >> i do have firsthand knowledge. i have been down there. i'm down there frequently. anybody that knows president

trump's office, he has guests frequently there. >> i think they wanted to show there were things with top secret markings for the public to justify the raid. what that doesn't tell you is that things are declassified that are marked classified. they don't change the marking when they do that. >> not just that, but between that and the other attorneys, i have heard many different defenses here. what's interesting is the legal team didn't actually address some of the core defenses trump himself has made. i declassified that, et cetera. the lawyers didn't go there. who do you think these defenses are coming from? trump? or the legal team? what do you make of them? >> it's originally coming from trump. he directs them through a document, i'm sure. this is what i want you to say. alina is possibly the last lawyer on the planet that should be out there right now defending

this grotesque possession of national security secrets at mar-a-lago. >> it's what he did to you? >> it's what he did to everyone. these are your talking points. it's the same thing with the gop members when i was testifying before the house oversight committee. use the following words. these are the talking points i want you to use. alina goes on -- she does the same thing that donald is doing. that's spreading misinformation, disinformation, malinformation. she has no clue what she's talking about. how does she know how declassified documents look? maybe she knows the inside of trump's office. she has no clue when it comes to the doj. she's working in parking lots, not in the justice department. then she makes all other sorts of allegations that he declassified them. really? show me. show me how you declassify them. everybody else that was around him at the time states that he

did not. >> 18 trump administration officials, including two former trump chiefs of staff, said that is essentially ludicrous to say that he could make an assertion -- >> i'm shocked her next statement is about executive privilege. >> let's talk about the facts. there's a lot of facts to go through. kristina bobb representing the former president. she's the one who critically signed that june 3rd letter saying, all right, you know, doj, you have all the classified stuff. that appears to be false. there's a question that doj did lay out in their filing as to whether or not classified documents were moved out before they surveyed it. did she know what she signed was false? does she need her own lawyer? >> she needs to lawyer up. here is the thing about donald. what he did with her -- i'm sure, because i have seen him do it 100 times. he tells you, there's nothing there. i sent everything back. i just need a lawyer to sign

this. she doesn't want to argue with the guy. it's donald trump, now former president. what did she do? she foolishly signed the document. now she's going to have to testify and explain exactly what she did in order to verify that these documents were no longer on the premises. she's going to have to turn around and say, i didn't, because donald told me. she has a right to rely upon her client's statement, but not when it's donald trump. the guy lies the way people breathe. she should have known that. she should have seen, not just -- it's not just her. look at eastman. you have corcoran, rudy, myself, powell, there's a plethora of lawyers that have all gone down or are going down or need to lawyer up simply because they did donald trump's bidding. >> you have said, i felt it was my duty to cover up his deeds rather than listen to my own inner voice. we appreciate you being here. thank you very much.

look forward to seeing the book in about a month. next, live pictures from philadelphia tonight. in 40 minutes president biden will address the nation. we are learning how forcefully he will take on what he calls the maga forces. it's a story you will see first right here. how does a dominion voting machine end up on ebay sold for $1,200? who bought it? that's ahead. automatically adjusts to keep you both comfortable. our smart sleepers g get 28 minuts more restful sleep per night. don't miss our labor day weekend special. save 50% onon sleep number 360® limited edition smart bed. enends labor day. alright, limu, give me a socket wrench, pliers, and a phone open to libertymutual.com they customi your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need... and a blowtoh. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. libert liberty. ♪

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i mean, can i have a bite? only from xfinity. nah. unbeatable internet. made to do anything so you can do anything. you are looking at live pictures of independence park in philadelphia where moments from now president biden will give what the white house calls a quote battle for the soul of the nation speech about the anti-democratic forces he sees growing across america. according to newly released excerpts, biden will say maga forces are determined to take this country backward to an america where there is no right to choose, no right to privacy, no right to contraception, no right to marry who you love. it comes as biden is increasingly concerned about former president trump's influence on this growing movement.

tonight, karine jean pierre here tonight. what more will we hear from the president tonight? >> tonight, you are going to hear from the president on some core themes that we have heard from him for the past three years. the need to protect our democracy. the need to protect our freedom. the need to protect our rights. you have been showing photos where he is going to make that speech in less than 40 minutes, which is independence hall, where a lot of those rights were debated and they were drafted. we talk about the core rights that we have, those freedoms. it's an important place, he believes, to have that conversation. the president is going to talk about how for the past two centuries, america has been the beacon for the world. he is going to lay out what we have seen most recently. what we have seen for the past several years about how all of the those rights i laid out are under attack.

they are under assault. he is going to call on where it's coming from. he is going to lay out how those assaults have been and what they are. here is the last part i will say, is that the president is an optimism. he believes in this country. he believes in the american people. he believes on our foundational rights, our freedoms. he is going to do everything that he can to fight for those rights, to fight for those freedoms, equality. >> from our reporting, the president has been working on this for months. it comes from a deeply personal place. i'm interested in what specifically he is seeing on those fronts that he is even more concerned about now than ever before. why he is giving this speech in this moment. >> to your point, as you just said, this is a speech he has been thinking about for some time and has been wanting to really speak to the american people, which is why we chose to

do it tonight, during primetime, so we can make sure majority of americans who, by the way, stand with us on a lot of the issues that are important to them. these are the things the president is going to speak about. you have talked about this. we have seen the extremism from the republican party, that maga republicans in congress, those office holders who have talked about just blatantly, clearly about how they want to take away our rights, who have talked about, when you think did dobbs and the decision on june 24th that scotus made. they want to put a national ban. they want to take away freedoms that women have to make their own decision on their health care. that's one part of it. there's also what we have seen, january 6, not standing up for free and fair elections, not standing up for a law enforcement officer when we had a mob attacking our democracy,

attacking the capitol. all of these things matter. all of these things have been extreme views. >> house republican leader kevin mccarthy just spoke a few minutes ago in the president's hometown. no coincidence there. in scranton. arguing the president is trying to distract americans. he called on the president to apologize tonight for saying, as you know, a few days ago that the maga movement is like semi-fascism. he said that at that private donor event. listen to what mccarthy is asking for. >> when the president speaks tonight at independence hall, the first lines out of his mouth should be to apologize for slandering tens of millions of americans as fascists. >> will the president apologize?

>> you know, i will say this. i will let the actions of kevin mccarthy for over the past two years just speak for itself. there was a moment on january 6 or around january 6 where kevin mccarthy spoke very forcefully about what happened on that day, about what that attack meant for our nation. you may have missed it if you blinked an eye. sadly, right after that, soon after that, he aligned with the most extreme part of his party. that is the sad thing to say. that's not a great thing to say. that's a sad thing to say as we talk about that mob, that insurrection that i just spoke about, that landed on our capitol to attack our democracy, to attack law enforcement officers. again, he spoke to it. then you blink an eye again -- >> i understand.

our viewers understand the shift that kevin mccarthy said from what he said then to what he said later. i asked you about the president and what he will say tonight. i take it as no, the president will not apologize. you marrde a clarification that you are talking about maga republican lawmakers, not millions of maga voters. is that a clarification the president will make tonight? there are many of those voters out there that feel like he was disparaging them. >> we have always said that. the first time the president -- >> he didn't talk -- to be clear he didn't say that in these remarks. >> i will say this. we have to hear his remarks. you will hear from him in just a few moments. you will hear everything that he has to say to the american people. you will hear that soon enough. the first time he mentioned maga republicans was when senator -- a senator from one of the republican senators put out a plan that was incredibly extreme

and talked about sunsetting medicare and talked about chopping social security. that was the plan that they put forward. he called that -- he called that extreme. he called out the maga republicans in the senate for that. that was going to cut taxes on middle class. there has been many times where the president has been very clear about who he is talking about. when it comes to republicans, they are hiding. they are hiding behind by calling us divisive. they are hiding behind that and not taking responsibility for the extreme agenda they put forward in their party by these maga republican office holders. >> thank you for your time tonight. we will all be watching in just less than 30 minutes. the president speaks then. thanks very much. let me bring in van jones, who is a special advisor to president obama, and jenna goldberg. it's great to have you both. van, let's just jump off where

we just ended with karine. there's this early excerpt from the president's speech. in it he says, we have reassured ourselves american democracy is guaranteed. but it's not. we have to defend it, protect it, stand up for it, each and every one of us. the white house is saying this is not about trump. do you buy that? >> i think biden is speaking for tens of millions of americans that are afraid. it's very scary to see this insurrection being defended by big republican leaders, by big republican media officials the it's scary to see voting rights on the chopping block. this is an important conversation. i'm proud he is going to help to lead it. he does have to be careful. if he paints with too broad a brush, it sounds like he is saying anybody who voted for trump is an enemy of america. there are republicans that are concerned that you do have people in their party who are trafficking in violence, trafficking in white nationalism. that has no place in either party. it's appropriate for the

commander in chief to stand up and say, those kinds of threats are inappropriate. i'm glad he is doing that tonight. >> see if that clarification comes. jonah, as the president is getting ready to address the nation on these threats to democracy, in a new interview, former president trump is defending the people charme char the january 6 attack. >> i met with -- i'm financially supporting people that are incredible. they were my in my office. very much on my mind. it's a disgrace what they have done to them. if i decide to run and if i win, i will be looking very, very strongly at that pardon. full pardons. >> our polling clearly shows 55% of republicans think trump could have done more to stop the insurrection. is it smart to be defending the rioters right now? weeks out from the midterm elections. >> trump defends anybody who he

praised on donald trump. that includes rioters, people who defecate in the halls of congress, people who question the validity of elections. that's standard trump procedure. he always does it. he thinks as long as he feeds his base, he is under this delusion this base is the real majority in the country. it's all delusional nonsense. i have to say, i think that this idea that tonight's speech from joe biden, from the excerpts, at least from the pre-spin that we heard from the white house, that this is not just simply a political speech that is intended to be ambiguous about whether -- it's one of these sort of -- you take the sweeping position where you try to indict all republicans, or you try to indict republican leadership, republican policies going back 30 years. when you say, how dare you indict all these people, how dare you paint with a broad brush, you say, no, i meant this

tiny sliver of extremists, these insurrectionists and the rest. as far as i can tell, this is the first official primetime presidential address in 40 years that breaks no news. it's just attention, america, the president has an opinion. i agree with his opinion. but we have heard nothing from the white house all day, nothing in the excerpts at all that there's news to be made. >> let's let the president make the news or not make the news. van, i want to ask you about significant developments about ginni thomas, the wife of thomas thomas, and efforts to help overturn biden's victory. there are emails that cnn has that show she reached out to republican law makers in wisconsin two days after the election and called for biden -- she said, please stand strong in the face of political pressure and media pressure. reflect on the awesome authority granted to you and take action to ensure that a clean slate of

electors is chosen for our state. this comes after we previously reported that she reached out to law makers in arizona doing the same thing. what do you make of that? >> i think first of all, we have to say, she's an american citizen. the first amendment protects her. she has the right to express herself. i think it's incredibly ill considered for her to do the things she's doing, say the things she's saying and conduct herself the way she is. nothing is criminal. she has ta that right. because you have the right, doesn't make it right. she's bringing incredible harm to the reputation of the supreme court. i think she's doing her husband a disservice and the country. i think she owes the country's apology. she should not do this kind of thing. >> we run against the clock here. jonah, you go first next time. >> i agree with that. >> thanks. you got me to the next thing on time. thank you very much. stick with me. next, it's a story you will see first right here. how an uber driver ended up with

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tonight we are waiting president biden's primetime address. a shocking find on ebay, a dominion machine sold for $1,200. it's a story you will see here first. who bought it and the possible threat it could pose. >> reporter: what's in the box? >> that is a device which can be configured either as a voting machine or ballot marking d device. >> reporter: it should not be here in connecticut. >> i have been asked not to open it. if it's a part of criminal investigation, it's preserved. >> reporter: he bought this voting machine for $1,200 on ebay. >> as far as i was aware, it was

legal. >> reporter: the seller is ian hudson. in your ad, you wrote dominion image cast x voting machine from michigan. own a piece of history. this voting machine was one of thousands used in the 2020 ee u.s. presidential election. how did an uber driver get his hands on a michigan voting machine? he vote it from good will online. >> i saw a listing for what looked like an industrial touch screen computer. i got looking through the pictures. in one of the pictures, i saw on bottom corner of the screen, it said dominion voting. i on a whim bid on it. i was the only bidder. i won the auction. >> reporter: how much did you pay? >> i paid $7.99. >> i'm surprised about this. $8. he made a good profit. >> reporter: it turns out someone dropped the voting machine off at this goodwill.

who that person is is a mystery. it put the voting machine up for sale. >> i wasn't aware that they were supposed to be sold let alone donated. >> it's shocking that only when we started asking, does it belong somewhere, only after that they realized it has been stolen. >> reporter: they being the michigan secretary of state's office. >> one of michigan's voting machines showed up on ebay. >> yeah. we immediately referred it to law enforcement. >> clearly, it raised issues about the chain of custody and how these machines are secured. >> we have 1,600 jurisdictions. in between elections, clerks have the responsibility of securing all election equipment and protecting it from attempts, illegal attempts to access it by unauthorized individuals. >> reporter: michigan is one of several states where authorities are investigating unauthorized access to voting systems by people trying to prove the false claim the 2020 election was stolen.

>> there's a nationally coordinated effort to try to interfere with our elections that's manifesting at the local level in incidents like these in michigan. you have individuals that don't understand the technicalities. trying to gain access to machines to keep the misinformation alive. >> reporter: what do you say to the voter who is saying, they lost a voting machine in michigan? >> a couple of things. michigan's elections are secure. before every election we test every machine for accuracy. we have never seen unauthorized access to machines, any evidence of any wrongdoing or lack of security. >> reporter: police now trying to figure out how that voting machine ended up here at this good will in cadillac, michigan. good will telling us they process thousands of items every week here in michigan and it's not clear that good will even

realized that this actually was a voting machine when they posted it on its website. to the untrained eye, this kind of just looks like a big computer screen. of course lots of security concerns here. but, poppy, you'll never know just what you'll find at a good will or on ebay. >> once again your reporting has my jaw on the floor. thank you very much for that. thanks to everyone for joining us. president biden about to speak in ten minutes live in philadelphia. "ac 360" starts now. speaking from the birth place of american democracy, president biden tonight will issue a warning about the state of that democracy as he sees it and what american can say do about it. john berman here in for anderson. you're looking at live pictures of independence hall in philadelphia where the president is expected to begin his remarks just after the top of the hour. we have some early passages from this speech and will talk about them shortly. first, though, take a look. this is new polling from